BioEnergy Lists: Gasifiers & Gasification

From apchick at dmu.ac.uk Wed Dec 1 13:57:35 1999
From: apchick at dmu.ac.uk (Andy Chick)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Volumetric Analysis of Producer Gas
Message-ID: <38454C00.108D6F2C@dmu.ac.uk>

 

Hello,

Could anyone help me with a reference for the volumetric analysis of
producer gas, when the feedstock for gasification is Charcoal.

I have lots of data for wood, e.g.
Producer Gas Composition
%CO 21.0
%H2 14.5
%N2 48.16
% CH4 1.6
%CO2 9.7
%Water Vapour 4.8
CV Wood = 15 MJ/kg and Producer Gas 5.5 MJ/m3

but no published data for Charcoal. I have experimental data for
gasifier efficiency with charcoal, and a theoretical model that predicts
volumetric gas composition for charcoal. I would like to compare my
results with some published results, can anyone help me with a suitable
reference source?

Andrew P Chick
--
________________________________________________________________________

Andrew. P. Chick apchick@dmu.ac.uk
De Montfort University http://www.dmu.ac.uk/ln/itc
School of Agriculture Tel 01400 275625
Caythorpe, Grantham Fax 01400 275656
Lincolnshire UK
NG32 3EP
________________________________________________________________________

 

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From tomb at snowcrest.net Wed Dec 1 22:46:42 1999
From: tomb at snowcrest.net (Tom Blackburn)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Interesting Producer Gas Application
Message-ID: <000901bf3c78$9c3abb20$70ac4ed1@q3c2c0>

 

    Dear List members,

The other night I came across an interesting pump that
uses producer gas to directly act upon water in a closed vessel to propel it up
into a tank. You can see this at  <A
href="http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/hump.htm">http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/hump.htm
I hope you enjoy this article as much as I did.

Regards,
Tom Blackburn

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Dec 2 18:37:46 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Volumetric Analysis of Producer Gas
Message-ID: <0.56299895.25785dee@cs.com>

Dear Andrew:

Good question! I too have gone looking for "charcoal gas" composition in,
for instance, our Gen-Gas book without success.

Pure carbon gasification of course would follow

C + 1/2 O2 ==> CO

for which the O/F(wt) ratio is 1.33 and the A/F ratio would be 6.37. This
results in a MUCH higher nitrogen content and lower gas energy content.

But of course charcoal is not C - lots of volatiles, and in many cases it is
being gasified with steam or CO2 as well, or even with producer pyrolysis gas.

If you get an7y good analyses, let me know.

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 12/1/99 12:07:34 PM Mountain Standard Time,
apchick@dmu.ac.uk writes:

<<


Hello,

Could anyone help me with a reference for the volumetric analysis of
producer gas, when the feedstock for gasification is Charcoal.

I have lots of data for wood, e.g.
Producer Gas Composition
%CO 21.0
%H2 14.5
%N2 48.16
% CH4 1.6
%CO2 9.7
%Water Vapour 4.8
CV Wood = 15 MJ/kg and Producer Gas 5.5 MJ/m3

but no published data for Charcoal. I have experimental data for
gasifier efficiency with charcoal, and a theoretical model that predicts
volumetric gas composition for charcoal. I would like to compare my
results with some published results, can anyone help me with a suitable
reference source?

A >>
Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
Gasification Projects
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml

 

From arcate at email.msn.com Fri Dec 3 01:13:14 1999
From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Volumetric Analysis of Producer Gas
In-Reply-To: <0.56299895.25785dee@cs.com>
Message-ID: <001101bf3d56$b4b05500$0100007f@localhost>

Dear Andrew & Gasification:

You might ask Dr. Antal at the University of Hawaii, HNEI about gasification
of charcoal.
See http://www.eng.hawaii.edu/ME/faculty/antal.html

I cover the HNEI charcoal process on my web site www.techtp.com
The French looked at gasification of Torrefied Wood, see 5.2 Gasifier Fuel
at
http://www.techtp.com/torrefied%20wood.htm

Good luck,

Jim Arcate

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----
From: <Reedtb2@cs.com>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: GAS-L: Volumetric Analysis of Producer Gas

Dear Andrew:

Good question! I too have gone looking for "charcoal gas" composition in,
for instance, our Gen-Gas book without success.

Pure carbon gasification of course would follow

C + 1/2 O2 ==> CO

for which the O/F(wt) ratio is 1.33 and the A/F ratio would be 6.37. This
results in a MUCH higher nitrogen content and lower gas energy content.

But of course charcoal is not C - lots of volatiles, and in many cases it is
being gasified with steam or CO2 as well, or even with producer pyrolysis
gas.

If you get an7y good analyses, let me know.

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 12/1/99 12:07:34 PM Mountain Standard Time,
apchick@dmu.ac.uk writes:

<<

Hello,

Could anyone help me with a reference for the volumetric analysis of
producer gas, when the feedstock for gasification is Charcoal.

I have lots of data for wood, e.g.
Producer Gas Composition
%CO 21.0
%H2 14.5
%N2 48.16
% CH4 1.6
%CO2 9.7
%Water Vapour 4.8
CV Wood = 15 MJ/kg and Producer Gas 5.5 MJ/m3

but no published data for Charcoal. I have experimental data for
gasifier efficiency with charcoal, and a theoretical model that predicts
volumetric gas composition for charcoal. I would like to compare my
results with some published results, can anyone help me with a suitable
reference source?

A >>
Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
Gasification Projects
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml

 

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From cpeacocke at care.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 11:17:36 1999
From: cpeacocke at care.demon.co.uk (Cordner Peacocke)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Sewage Sludge Gasification
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991203162256.007a49f0@pop3.demon.co.uk>

Dear Gasifiers,

I am looking for a demonstration/commercial technology, either high
temperature pyrolysis or gasification to produce a medium to high CV gas
for use preferably in an engine or turbine. A boiler is the last resort.
The technology would be used in the European Union by a major Water utility.

The starting feedstocks are:
(1) sewage sludge [30wt% max. solids, 70 wt% max. water]
(2) sewage sludge screenings [max. 40 wt% water]
(3) dried sewage sludge [4wt% water max.]

The technology must be able to process up to 300,000 t/y of feedstock (1)
and 15,000 t/y of feedstock (3). Modular plants are envisaged. Other
details can be provided to interested parties on request.

It is likely that pretreatment of feedstocks 1 and 2 are required to
acheive a suitable material for processing. This must also be included
with the technology.

The technology must include feed pretreatment, the reactor and gas
cleaning/conditioning. All of those companies with a genuine, suitable
technology for a real commercial opportunity are invited to contact me.

Evidence of continuous operation is required, measured emissions from the
process and compliance with environmental legislation in the EU is an
essential requirement. Procedures and processes for dealing with
condensate and the residual solids from the sludge must be provided. There
is a tight timescale involved and a prompt reply would be greatly appreciated.

No research scale technologies please.

Yours sincerely,

Cordner Peacocke [Dr.]
Director
Conversion And Resource Evaluation Ltd.
9 Myrtle House
5 Cassowary Road
Birmingham
B20 1NE.
Tel: (44) 121 551 0344 or (44) 1232 422658
Fax: (44) 870 0542981 or (44) 121 359 6814
Internet: http://www.care.demon.co.uk/
Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
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From graeme at powerlink.co.nz Mon Dec 6 03:43:01 1999
From: graeme at powerlink.co.nz (Graeme Williams)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Doug Williams' gasification pictures online
Message-ID: <000701bf460f$812c96a0$65e637d2@graeme>

Dear Tom R et al

Following on from the previous discussions regarding downdraught gasifiers,
and the request for more photographs to illustrate what we talk about, I
have posted a few from our files. This is the first time any of the
pictures on the transition of wood blocks to char from our work has been
shown, as only hands-on visuals can accurately depict the change through
transition. I have to point out however that what is shown is only
representative of this fuel, (pine blocks) and if you change fuel so does
the behaviour of the char formation and structure of the packed oxidation
zone. Whilst I have hundreds of photographs, many reprints are required in
some instances to cover everything relevant.

Download those of interest to you for your own files.

_____________________________________________

Doug's website:

http://members.xoom.com/whitools/

All pictures on the above site are standard jpg format, and some content
requires Adobe Acrobat Reader for PDF files.

_____________________________________________

Regards
Doug Williams

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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Dec 6 08:33:13 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <0.ca935a20.257d1620@cs.com>

Dear Dan et al:

Sorry, didn't mean to be crytic...

The 3,000 C furnace that I remember from my 1950s Linde education (probably
going back to the Manhatten project) was a transite (asbestos board) box
approximately 50X40 X100 cm with a lid that could be removed for filling.
There was a 7 cm diameter hole in each end and 6 cm carbon tube with about a
0.5 cm wall was located on the axis. The box was then filled with
"thermatomic carbon" probably the same as lamp black as insulation.

In operation a VERY heavy transformer supplied 1000 amps at ? volts for
power. Voila 3,000C. Simple, but elegant. I'm sorry I've never had need to
generate those temperatures in graphite, buat I have made inert gas furnaces
going to 2700 C using a tungsten heating element with tantalum heat shields.

yours truly, TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 11/26/99 11:53:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dgill@ccsinc.com writes:

<< Tom,

What does the graphite rod and "lots of current" do?

Dan

Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:
>
> Dear Stovers:
>
> I have been pushing insulation for cookstoves for 3 years here with little
> sign of interest from the group. So, GOOD QUESTION...
>
> I don't know about charcoal, but you can make a very nice 3,000 C furnace
> with a graphite tube, lots of current, and THERMATOMIC CARBON. Thermatomic
> carbon looks like lampblack - very fine and dusty - and may actually be
> lampblack. Nasty to handle, but great insulation. I didn't find anything
on
> the Web about it under that name.
>
> The principle of operation of TH CA is that each granule is heated by
> radiation, and returns hald that radiation back similar to the action of
heat
> shields. Whether charcoal would do that or not, I don't know.
>
> Yours truly, TOM REED BEF
> >>
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From LINVENT at aol.com Mon Dec 6 11:55:12 1999
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <0.46755860.257d458f@aol.com>

Dear Tom Reed et. al.,
I once saw a demonstration of a thin layer of graphite or some form of
carbon filament cloth being heated on one side with an acetlyene torch and
being held against a guys hand. Very impressive. Apparently the carbon
would conduct heat in one direction only and would conduct it across the
cloth instead of through it. While working at Sandia National Labs, we used
a laser to excite a sample on a mass spectrometer and had a white substance
left on the surface which we later found out what it was which found out to
be a form of carbon formed under high temperature and vacuum, so with this,
there are innumerable forms of carbon in the universe and one or another may
have properties which fit better than any other material.
I do not understand several things about this such as why carbon based
compounds are not more widely used, why carbon can be exposed to high
temperature conditions which will normally destroy carbon such as steam
activation of carbon to activated carbon which will normally form CO and H2,
and why the carbon heated with an acetlyene torch on one side did not merely
burn?
Any answers?

Sincerely,

Tom Taylor
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From snkm at btl.net Tue Dec 7 21:22:53 1999
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991207202914.006d38e8@wgs1.btl.net>

Ok guys --

Back somewhere in around 1985 --

http://www.icpowercontrols.com/arc.html

You'll see at this web site of one of my past co-workers -- Mat Lewis -- an
example of our micro-processing wizardry.

We built a plasma arc furnace -- operating under a hydrogen atmosphere. We
never could measure the temperatures. But furnace melt down was
approximately 2 minutes.

What is neat here is the fact that we generated huge amperage with out
using a transformer. This was done directly off a 220 volt -- single phase
-- line entrance.

This by using a microcomputer controlling scr's in a feed back loop.

The last picture shows my legs and gut!

I think it took us around 8 days to build this -- and cost around $200.

And that is a corner of the old prototype development shop -- corner of St
Jacque and Guy streets -- central Montreal City. In a 100 year plus lamp
factory.

Interestingly -- the light that came out of the pour hole was polarized and
did not disperse -- almost like a 75,000 watt laser! When in operation the
door in front of it was kept open -- and this incredible beam of light was
broadcast to the skies.

The radiant energy in the beam was very high!

We did not build this device on contract -- or for sale -- but simply
because we had an idea it could be done -- and wanted to cast some
stainless steel belt buckles using scrap from the metal shop besides us.

The refractory, water cooled, was plumbago (foundry grade graphite) The
electrodes were hard graphite. Plumbago is an inexpensive refractory
material that is mixed with water and used like cement.

What you can't do with a micro-controller!! But then nobody believes what
we were doing back 15 years ago -- even today!

Those were the days!!

Peter / Belize

 

At 08:37 AM 12/6/99 EST, you wrote:
>Dear Dan et al:
>
>Sorry, didn't mean to be crytic...
>
>The 3,000 C furnace that I remember from my 1950s Linde education (probably
>going back to the Manhatten project) was a transite (asbestos board) box
>approximately 50X40 X100 cm with a lid that could be removed for filling.
>There was a 7 cm diameter hole in each end and 6 cm carbon tube with about a
>0.5 cm wall was located on the axis. The box was then filled with
>"thermatomic carbon" probably the same as lamp black as insulation.
>
>In operation a VERY heavy transformer supplied 1000 amps at ? volts for
>power. Voila 3,000C. Simple, but elegant. I'm sorry I've never had need
to
>generate those temperatures in graphite, buat I have made inert gas furnaces
>going to 2700 C using a tungsten heating element with tantalum heat
shields.
>
>yours truly, TOM REED BEF
>
>In a message dated 11/26/99 11:53:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>dgill@ccsinc.com writes:
>
><< Tom,
>
> What does the graphite rod and "lots of current" do?
>
> Dan
>
> Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:
> >
> > Dear Stovers:
> >
> > I have been pushing insulation for cookstoves for 3 years here with little
> > sign of interest from the group. So, GOOD QUESTION...
> >
> > I don't know about charcoal, but you can make a very nice 3,000 C furnace
> > with a graphite tube, lots of current, and THERMATOMIC CARBON.
Thermatomic
> > carbon looks like lampblack - very fine and dusty - and may actually be
> > lampblack. Nasty to handle, but great insulation. I didn't find
anything
>on
> > the Web about it under that name.
> >
> > The principle of operation of TH CA is that each granule is heated by
> > radiation, and returns hald that radiation back similar to the action of
>heat
> > shields. Whether charcoal would do that or not, I don't know.
> >
> > Yours truly, TOM REED BEF
> > >>
>Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>Gasification Projects
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>
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From snkm at btl.net Tue Dec 7 21:55:57 1999
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991207205952.00769844@wgs1.btl.net>

Sorry -- forgot one point --

Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat.

Peter/Belize
Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
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From LINVENT at aol.com Wed Dec 8 10:18:50 1999
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <0.ab5a624.257fd202@aol.com>

Peter,
8 days at 8hrs/day is 64 hours, at $200? Parts $200, labor much more.
Tom Taylor
Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
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From snkm at btl.net Wed Dec 8 12:34:42 1999
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991208094305.0076a41c@wgs1.btl.net>

Tom;

We never count labor! Just like the guys climbing Mount Everest did not.

At 10:23 AM 12/8/99 EST, you wrote:
>Peter,
> 8 days at 8hrs/day is 64 hours, at $200? Parts $200, labor much more.
>Tom Taylor
>Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>Gasification Projects
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>
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From tmiles at teleport.com Thu Dec 9 00:52:12 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Bioenergy List Activity and Annual Appeal
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991208211730.01ee4760@mail.teleport.com>

It may interest list members to know how many people we have on these
ongoing, on-line, bioenergy "conferences."

After five years we have five lists: Bioenergy, Gasification, Stoves,
Digestion, Bioconversion. Each list has a digest and a web archive.

List membership for the Bioenergy list varies between 400-500 members with
about 10% entering or leaving each year. Stoves, Gasification and Digestion
vary between 200-300 members with a similar turnover. Bioconversion has
about 120 members. The number of messages varies with topics and events.
Topics are "free choice." Since the intent is the exchange of scientific
and practical or commercial experience, advertising is discouraged. List
moderators screen only unsolicited commercial email (SPAM). Lists are
proactive; you usually have to ask a question to get the answers you're
looking for.

The lists are hosted by the Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable
Technology (www.crest.org). CREST manages the list software on its
computers and archives messages from the lists on the Web. We now have up
to five years of messages on the archives. People who search the web for
bioenergy topics often find our list messages.

The bioenergy list archives received more than 76,000 web requests (hits)
during November: Bioenergy 31,000; Stoves 16,000; Gasification 15,000;
Digestion 13,000; Bioconversion 2,000. They average more than 2500 requests
per day.

The lists are funded through the generous contributions of time and money
by our list moderators (Alex English, Tom Jeffries, Ron Larson, Phil Lusk,
Tom Miles, Tom Reed), list sponsors (Bioenergy - David Gubanc, PE and DK
Teknik, Martin Fock; Gasification - Biomass Energy Foundation, Tom Reed;
Stoves- FAO Auke Koopmans and Kirk Smith, UC Berkley; Digestion - Hitoshi
Marruyama, IEA Phil Lusk; Bioconversions - USDA Forest Service, Tom
Jeffries) and CREST. List sponsorship is $300/year. List sponsors and
volunteer moderators are always needed and always welcome. (To contribute
see http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml )

I'd like to thank all of the list members, volunteers and supporters who
make these bioenergy discussions possible. We have created the highest
quality, lowest cost bioenergy conference on record.

Regards,

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
T.R. Miles, Technical Consultants, Inc.
1470 SW Woodward Way
Portland, Oregon, USA Tel:(503) 646-1198/292-0107
http://www.teleport.com/~tmiles/ Fax:(503) 605-0208/292-2919
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From dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu Thu Dec 9 09:46:55 1999
From: dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu (Schmidt, Darren)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <601A55066596D211A7AD00104BC6FB254CE621@catalina.eerc.und.NoDak.edu>

Look up the thermal conductivity of carbon and compare to other materials.
It is an insulator.

Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager
Energy & Environmental Research Center
PO Box 9018
Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202
dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu
Ph (701) 777-5120
Fax (701) 777-5181

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:06 PM
To: gasification@crest.org
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?

Sorry -- forgot one point --

Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat.

Peter/Belize
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From james at sri.org.au Thu Dec 9 16:59:41 1999
From: james at sri.org.au (james@sri.org.au)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <OF79CC02DE.3FB00B73-ON4A256842.0079501E@sri.org.au>

 

My understanding is that the reason people can walk on "hot" coals is that
the charcoal insulates them from the smouldering remains below. Surely the
insulating value of carbon is strongly dependant on the form the carbon is
in. So, perhaps diamonds are good conductors.

James Joyce

 

"Schmidt, Darren"
<dschmidt@eerc.und. To: "'gasification@crest.org'"
nodak.edu> <gasification@crest.org>
Sent by: cc:
owner-gasification@ Subject: RE: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
crest.org


10/12/99 00:46
Please respond to
gasification

 

Look up the thermal conductivity of carbon and compare to other materials.
It is an insulator.

Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager
Energy & Environmental Research Center
PO Box 9018
Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202
dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu
Ph (701) 777-5120
Fax (701) 777-5181

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:06 PM
To: gasification@crest.org
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?

Sorry -- forgot one point --

Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat.

Peter/Belize
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From LINVENT at aol.com Thu Dec 9 18:25:30 1999
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re:Carbon
Message-ID: <0.6382b547.25819595@aol.com>

Dear carbon interests.

How many different forms of carbon are there?

Tom Taylor
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From LINVENT at aol.com Thu Dec 9 18:38:19 1999
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <0.5bd07835.25819897@aol.com>

Dear Peter,
I am glad that comparing the construction of your project is being
compared to climbing Mount Everest. The point is, costs of labor have to be
included in any project development in order to value the work properly and
configure it properly to the commercial markets. Not doing so creates an
illusion that it is a commercially feasible activity when in fact it may not
be.
Of course, if the climbers of Mount Everest were offering tourist rates
for going along, they would have to include the cost of equipment, Sherpas
and the whole enchilada as a charge to the tourists. The rates would be
astronomical. Of course, to prevent massive lawsuits, insurance costs would
have to be included.
I am not one to talk as I frequently underestimate the real costs of a
project and use optimistic figures in the conceptualization of technology
costs. This is a real problem for the real world problems which we are
tackling.
If two engineers work 64 hours each at a minimum of $20/hour, the real
cost is without overhead such as rent, insurance, taxes and the like,
$200+$2560=$2760., so a real figure is probably $5000.
Sorry, but reality is reality.

Tom Taylor
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From snkm at btl.net Thu Dec 9 18:55:10 1999
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991209174926.01059d28@wgs1.btl.net>

Charcoal is a very porous medium of carbon. Graphite is not! And diamonds
even less again!

But here are some figures of interest.

Thermal conductivity - K = btu/(hr)(ft)(deg.F.)

Material: K

Carbon, Graphite 2.9
Chalk .15
Coke, powdered .11
Concrete, stone .7
Cotton .03
Fire Brick .75
Glass .3
Porcelain .83
Quartz 3.9
Sawdust .03
Wool .02
Stainless Steel 12.0
Copper 223.0

So -- if you built the walls of your house out of carbon (as graphite) --
they would have to be four times thicker than if they were built of cemment
to give the same insulation factor. And where I come from -- we call bare
cement walls uninsulated!!

Or to put it another way -- a graphite wall 100 inches thick would be
roughly the same insulation factor as a sawdust wall one inch thick.

Some heat insulator -- eh??

I was waiting for some one else to catch this -- nobody knew??

Peter/Belize

At 08:08 AM 12/10/99 +1000, you wrote:
>
>My understanding is that the reason people can walk on "hot" coals is that
>the charcoal insulates them from the smouldering remains below. Surely the
>insulating value of carbon is strongly dependant on the form the carbon is
>in. So, perhaps diamonds are good conductors.
>
>James Joyce
>
>
>
>

> "Schmidt, Darren"

> <dschmidt@eerc.und. To:
"'gasification@crest.org'"
> nodak.edu> <gasification@crest.org>

> Sent by: cc:

> owner-gasification@ Subject: RE: GAS-L:
Charcoal as an Insulator?
> crest.org

>

>

> 10/12/99 00:46

> Please respond to

> gasification

>

>

>
>
>
>Look up the thermal conductivity of carbon and compare to other materials.
>It is an insulator.
>
>Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager
>Energy & Environmental Research Center
>PO Box 9018
>Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202
>dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu
>Ph (701) 777-5120
>Fax (701) 777-5181
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:06 PM
>To: gasification@crest.org
>Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
>
>
>Sorry -- forgot one point --
>
>Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat.
>
>
>Peter/Belize
>Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
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>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
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>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>
>
>
>
>Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
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>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>
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From mlrollins at tva.gov Fri Dec 10 09:25:37 1999
From: mlrollins at tva.gov (Rollins, Martha L.)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Bioenergy List Activity and Annual Appeal
Message-ID: <2ADF1FA34AB1D111ADB30000F80148CC0600E7C0@chachaois2b.cha.tva.gov>

Tom
I need to get off this distribution list. I am gone so much that I do not
have time to read them, just zap them. Thanks.
Martha L. (Bunni) Rollins
TVA Public Power Institute
Chattanooga Regional Office
1101 Market Street MR 2T
Chattanooga, TN 37402-2801
423.751.4712 Fax 423.751.2463
mlrollins@tva.gov

> ----------
> From: Tom Miles[SMTP:tmiles@teleport.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 1:02 AM
> To: bioenergy@crest.org
> Cc: stoves@crest.org; gasification@crest.org; digestion@crest.org;
> bioconversion@crest.org
> Subject: GAS-L: Bioenergy List Activity and Annual Appeal
>
> It may interest list members to know how many people we have on these
> ongoing, on-line, bioenergy "conferences."
>
> After five years we have five lists: Bioenergy, Gasification, Stoves,
> Digestion, Bioconversion. Each list has a digest and a web archive.
>
> List membership for the Bioenergy list varies between 400-500 members with
>
> about 10% entering or leaving each year. Stoves, Gasification and
> Digestion
> vary between 200-300 members with a similar turnover. Bioconversion has
> about 120 members. The number of messages varies with topics and events.
> Topics are "free choice." Since the intent is the exchange of scientific
> and practical or commercial experience, advertising is discouraged. List
> moderators screen only unsolicited commercial email (SPAM). Lists are
> proactive; you usually have to ask a question to get the answers you're
> looking for.
>
> The lists are hosted by the Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable
> Technology (www.crest.org). CREST manages the list software on its
> computers and archives messages from the lists on the Web. We now have up
> to five years of messages on the archives. People who search the web for
> bioenergy topics often find our list messages.
>
> The bioenergy list archives received more than 76,000 web requests (hits)
> during November: Bioenergy 31,000; Stoves 16,000; Gasification 15,000;
> Digestion 13,000; Bioconversion 2,000. They average more than 2500
> requests
> per day.
>
> The lists are funded through the generous contributions of time and money
> by our list moderators (Alex English, Tom Jeffries, Ron Larson, Phil Lusk,
>
> Tom Miles, Tom Reed), list sponsors (Bioenergy - David Gubanc, PE and DK
> Teknik, Martin Fock; Gasification - Biomass Energy Foundation, Tom Reed;
> Stoves- FAO Auke Koopmans and Kirk Smith, UC Berkley; Digestion - Hitoshi
> Marruyama, IEA Phil Lusk; Bioconversions - USDA Forest Service, Tom
> Jeffries) and CREST. List sponsorship is $300/year. List sponsors and
> volunteer moderators are always needed and always welcome. (To contribute
> see http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml )
>
> I'd like to thank all of the list members, volunteers and supporters who
> make these bioenergy discussions possible. We have created the highest
> quality, lowest cost bioenergy conference on record.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Miles
> Bioenergy Lists Administrator
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
> T.R. Miles, Technical Consultants, Inc.
> 1470 SW Woodward Way
> Portland, Oregon, USA Tel:(503) 646-1198/292-0107
> http://www.teleport.com/~tmiles/ Fax:(503) 605-0208/292-2919
> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
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From tmiles at teleport.com Fri Dec 10 10:24:29 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Bioenergy List Activity and Annual Appeal
In-Reply-To: <2ADF1FA34AB1D111ADB30000F80148CC0600E7C0@chachaois2b.cha.tva.gov>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991210073009.01f54cb0@mail.teleport.com>

Bunni,

I've pulled you off the list.

Tom

At 09:31 AM 12/10/99 -0500, you wrote:
>mlrollins@tva.gov

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From dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu Fri Dec 10 10:38:14 1999
From: dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu (Schmidt, Darren)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <601A55066596D211A7AD00104BC6FB254CE628@catalina.eerc.und.NoDak.edu>

From:
Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager
Energy & Environmental Research Center
PO Box 9018
Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202
dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu
Ph (701) 777-5120
Fax (701) 777-5181

Thought this discussion was interesting. Here is another 2 cents worth.
I couldn't find any thing telling me how to define wether something is an
insulator or a conductor. According to the dictionary the real definition
would be relative. So in your sense you are right, when comparing
fiberglass insulation k=0.026 to concrete k=0.7, which is 26 times greater,
and comparing concrete to graphite k=2.9. I thought of charcoal as an
insulator because I was thinking in terms of a different case. Charcoal
powder k=0.029. At one time I was looking at heat conductivity and basically
comparing charcoal to steel and water. steel k=26.2, water k=0.343

Here is the case: When removing charcoal from the our gasifier it came out
hot (approx. 400 - 1000°F) and needed to be cooled before dumping it into a
super sack or whatever. We were looking at economical ways to cool it down.
One method was just to water jacket augers and vessels. As it turned out
the water jacket wasn't much better than natural air convection, and the
thermal conductivity of charcoal played and important factor.

Details: The heat transfer of an auger should be better than a stationary
hopper due to the mixing of the particles, however it is not beneficial to
water jacket the auger. Four items effect heat transfer in this problem: 1.
inner film coefficient, 2. TC of charcoal, 3. TC of steel auger wall, 4.
outer film coefficient. (TC - Thermal conductivity) The most limiting factor
is expected to be the outer film coefficient, that is the justification for
a water jacket, however, as it turns out, the TC of the charcoal at a 1/8
inch layer is equivalent to the outer film coefficient. So, any heat
conductivity gain a water jacket supplies, the charcoal layer remains to
limit along with the inner film coefficient. In this case charcoal was too
much of an insulator.

Here are some bulk densities and corresponding thermal conductivities
(btu/hr ft F):
Charcoal powder 11.5 lb/ft^3, 0.029,
Graphite solid 93.5 lb/ft^3, 87,
Diamond 151 lb/ft^3, 320.
Carbon black 12 lb/ft^3, 0.012.

Peter wrote: Charcoal is a very porous medium of carbon. Graphite is not!
And diamonds
even less again!

Peter wrote: But here are some figures of interest.

Thermal conductivity - K = btu/(hr)(ft)(deg.F.)

Material: K

Carbon, Graphite 2.9
Chalk .15
Coke, powdered .11
Concrete, stone .7
Cotton .03
Fire Brick .75
Glass .3
Porcelain .83
Quartz 3.9
Sawdust .03
Wool .02
Stainless Steel 12.0
Copper 223.0

Peter Wrote: So -- if you built the walls of your house out of carbon (as
graphite) --
they would have to be four times thicker than if they were built of cemment
to give the same insulation factor. And where I come from -- we call bare
cement walls uninsulated!!

Peter wrote: Or to put it another way -- a graphite wall 100 inches thick
would be
roughly the same insulation factor as a sawdust wall one inch thick.

Peter wrote:Some heat insulator -- eh??

Peter wrote:I was waiting for some one else to catch this -- nobody knew??

Peter/Belize

At 08:08 AM 12/10/99 +1000, you wrote:
>
>My understanding is that the reason people can walk on "hot" coals is that
>the charcoal insulates them from the smouldering remains below. Surely the
>insulating value of carbon is strongly dependant on the form the carbon is
>in. So, perhaps diamonds are good conductors.
>
>James Joyce
>
>
>
>

> "Schmidt, Darren"

> <dschmidt@eerc.und. To:
"'gasification@crest.org'"
> nodak.edu> <gasification@crest.org>

> Sent by: cc:

> owner-gasification@ Subject: RE: GAS-L:
Charcoal as an Insulator?
> crest.org

>

>

> 10/12/99 00:46

> Please respond to

> gasification

>

>

>
>
>
>Look up the thermal conductivity of carbon and compare to other materials.
>It is an insulator.
>
>Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager
>Energy & Environmental Research Center
>PO Box 9018
>Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202
>dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu
>Ph (701) 777-5120
>Fax (701) 777-5181
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:06 PM
>To: gasification@crest.org
>Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
>
>
>Sorry -- forgot one point --
>
>Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat.
>
>
>Peter/Belize
>Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>Gasification Projects
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>Gasification Projects
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>
>
>
>
>Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>Gasification Projects
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>
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From snkm at btl.net Fri Dec 10 15:33:01 1999
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991210144134.00758ea4@wgs1.btl.net>

Darren;

Extremely interesting! My suggestion would be to use low pressure, super
saturated, steam to cool it down to at least 250F. Or simply inject the
proper amount of fine spray water directly.

Think of how they used to boil water in a leather pouch by throwing hot
stones into it.

What you are lacking is an intimate contact with the carbon -- as film
coefficient is directly related to surface area. Charcoal is quite porous
-- so you have to "trick" your way around that.

Quenching in just the right amount of water should also work -- leaving a
dry and cooler product. In fact -- with the proper dry air flow over your
quenching pit you should achieve final temperatures around the ambient dew
point.

Lots of ways to skin that cat! You could even recover that "steam" for
extra heating purposes other places.

Once you make intimate contact with carbon and cooling fluid -- the heat
conductivity of the carbon is high enough.

Peter / Belize

At 09:37 AM 12/10/99 -0600, you wrote:
>From:
>Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager
>Energy & Environmental Research Center
>PO Box 9018
>Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202
>dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu
>Ph (701) 777-5120
>Fax (701) 777-5181
>
>Thought this discussion was interesting. Here is another 2 cents worth.
>I couldn't find any thing telling me how to define wether something is an
>insulator or a conductor. According to the dictionary the real definition
>would be relative. So in your sense you are right, when comparing
>fiberglass insulation k=0.026 to concrete k=0.7, which is 26 times greater,
>and comparing concrete to graphite k=2.9. I thought of charcoal as an
>insulator because I was thinking in terms of a different case. Charcoal
>powder k=0.029. At one time I was looking at heat conductivity and basically
>comparing charcoal to steel and water. steel k=26.2, water k=0.343
>
>Here is the case: When removing charcoal from the our gasifier it came out
>hot (approx. 400 - 1000°F) and needed to be cooled before dumping it into a
>super sack or whatever. We were looking at economical ways to cool it down.
>One method was just to water jacket augers and vessels. As it turned out
>the water jacket wasn't much better than natural air convection, and the
>thermal conductivity of charcoal played and important factor.
>
>Details: The heat transfer of an auger should be better than a stationary
>hopper due to the mixing of the particles, however it is not beneficial to
>water jacket the auger. Four items effect heat transfer in this problem: 1.
>inner film coefficient, 2. TC of charcoal, 3. TC of steel auger wall, 4.
>outer film coefficient. (TC - Thermal conductivity) The most limiting factor
>is expected to be the outer film coefficient, that is the justification for
>a water jacket, however, as it turns out, the TC of the charcoal at a 1/8
>inch layer is equivalent to the outer film coefficient. So, any heat
>conductivity gain a water jacket supplies, the charcoal layer remains to
>limit along with the inner film coefficient. In this case charcoal was too
>much of an insulator.
>
>Here are some bulk densities and corresponding thermal conductivities
>(btu/hr ft F):
>Charcoal powder 11.5 lb/ft^3, 0.029,
>Graphite solid 93.5 lb/ft^3, 87,
>Diamond 151 lb/ft^3, 320.
>Carbon black 12 lb/ft^3, 0.012.
>
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From dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu Fri Dec 10 16:27:55 1999
From: dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu (Schmidt, Darren)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <601A55066596D211A7AD00104BC6FB254CE62E@catalina.eerc.und.NoDak.edu>

Your suggestion was carried out in the form of a water spray.

Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager
Energy & Environmental Research Center
PO Box 9018
Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202
dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu
Ph (701) 777-5120
Fax (701) 777-5181

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 2:43 PM
To: gasification@crest.org
Subject: Re: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator?

Darren;

Extremely interesting! My suggestion would be to use low pressure, super
saturated, steam to cool it down to at least 250F. Or simply inject the
proper amount of fine spray water directly.

Think of how they used to boil water in a leather pouch by throwing hot
stones into it.

What you are lacking is an intimate contact with the carbon -- as film
coefficient is directly related to surface area. Charcoal is quite porous
-- so you have to "trick" your way around that.

Quenching in just the right amount of water should also work -- leaving a
dry and cooler product. In fact -- with the proper dry air flow over your
quenching pit you should achieve final temperatures around the ambient dew
point.

Lots of ways to skin that cat! You could even recover that "steam" for
extra heating purposes other places.

Once you make intimate contact with carbon and cooling fluid -- the heat
conductivity of the carbon is high enough.

Peter / Belize

At 09:37 AM 12/10/99 -0600, you wrote:
>From:
>Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager
>Energy & Environmental Research Center
>PO Box 9018
>Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202
>dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu
>Ph (701) 777-5120
>Fax (701) 777-5181
>
>Thought this discussion was interesting. Here is another 2 cents worth.
>I couldn't find any thing telling me how to define wether something is an
>insulator or a conductor. According to the dictionary the real definition
>would be relative. So in your sense you are right, when comparing
>fiberglass insulation k=0.026 to concrete k=0.7, which is 26 times greater,
>and comparing concrete to graphite k=2.9. I thought of charcoal as an
>insulator because I was thinking in terms of a different case. Charcoal
>powder k=0.029. At one time I was looking at heat conductivity and
basically
>comparing charcoal to steel and water. steel k=26.2, water k=0.343
>
>Here is the case: When removing charcoal from the our gasifier it came out
>hot (approx. 400 - 1000°F) and needed to be cooled before dumping it into a
>super sack or whatever. We were looking at economical ways to cool it
down.
>One method was just to water jacket augers and vessels. As it turned out
>the water jacket wasn't much better than natural air convection, and the
>thermal conductivity of charcoal played and important factor.
>
>Details: The heat transfer of an auger should be better than a stationary
>hopper due to the mixing of the particles, however it is not beneficial to
>water jacket the auger. Four items effect heat transfer in this problem:
1.
>inner film coefficient, 2. TC of charcoal, 3. TC of steel auger wall, 4.
>outer film coefficient. (TC - Thermal conductivity) The most limiting
factor
>is expected to be the outer film coefficient, that is the justification for
>a water jacket, however, as it turns out, the TC of the charcoal at a 1/8
>inch layer is equivalent to the outer film coefficient. So, any heat
>conductivity gain a water jacket supplies, the charcoal layer remains to
>limit along with the inner film coefficient. In this case charcoal was too
>much of an insulator.
>
>Here are some bulk densities and corresponding thermal conductivities
>(btu/hr ft F):
>Charcoal powder 11.5 lb/ft^3, 0.029,
>Graphite solid 93.5 lb/ft^3, 87,
>Diamond 151 lb/ft^3, 320.
>Carbon black 12 lb/ft^3, 0.012.
>
Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
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From arcate at email.msn.com Fri Dec 10 21:26:43 1999
From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Proposal for Torrefied Wood
Message-ID: <002401bf4380$61f53d00$0100007f@localhost>

Hello:

We plan to submit a proposal for PON No. 489-99 due December 16, 1999.
See http://www.nyserda.org/489pon.html

Our proposed project will promote commercialization of Torrefied Wood as a
bioresource for energy recovery and waste minimization.

Collaborative teams must have at least one significant New York State
partner. We need a New York Company to work with us, e.g., on the market
analysis and commercialization plan.

Please let me know ASAP if you are interested.

thank you, Jim Arcate

Transnational Technology
3447 Pipa Place
Honolulu, HI 96822-1221
(808) 988-7502 or 9713
www.techtp.com

 

 

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From arcate at email.msn.com Sat Dec 11 01:41:46 1999
From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New York Partner Wanted
Message-ID: <001301bf43a3$fdbb3d20$0100007f@localhost>

Hello:

We have a proposal ready to submit for commercialization of Torrefied Wood
as a bioresource for energy recovery and waste minimization. All we need is
the name of and a letter of commitment from a New York State Company or
Organization to partner with us on the project.

The PON No. 489-99 is due December 16, 1999. See
http://www.nyserda.org/489pon.html

Anyone interested please let me know ASAP.

thank you, Jim Arcate

Transnational Technology
3447 Pipa Place
Honolulu, HI 96822-1221
(808) 988-7502 or 9713
www.techtp.com

 

 

 

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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 11 17:53:11 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal, Sea Sweep quenching
Message-ID: <0.8f9208ed.25843104@cs.com>

Dear Gasification 300:

Along with Peter's suggestions:

We manufacture a product Sea Sweep by pyrolysing wood above the Torrefied
temperature and below the charcoal buffered endpoint of about 420C. We
quench it to keep it from overheating and put it directly in bags.

If we add too much water, the inside of the sealed bags will bet steamy. If
not enough, the bags melt. We bring final temperature to about 70C.

Probably the same would apply to bagging charcoal. Good luck..

TOM REED BEF, SEA SWEEP, CPC,....

In a message dated 12/10/99 2:37:36 PM Mountain Standard Time,
dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu writes:

<<
Darren;

Extremely interesting! My suggestion would be to use low pressure, super
saturated, steam to cool it down to at least 250F. Or simply inject the
proper amount of fine spray water directly.

Think of how they used to boil water in a leather pouch by throwing hot
stones into it.

What you are lacking is an intimate contact with the carbon -- as film
coefficient is directly related to surface area. Charcoal is quite porous
-- so you have to "trick" your way around that.

Quenching in just the right amount of water should also work -- leaving a
dry and cooler product. In fact -- with the proper dry air flow over your
quenching pit you should achieve final temperatures around the ambient dew
point.

Lots of ways to skin that cat! You could even recover that "steam" for
extra heating purposes other places.

Once you make intimate contact with carbon and cooling fluid -- the heat
conductivity of the carbon is high enough.

Peter / Belize
>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 11 17:53:16 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <0.f16fe159.25843107@cs.com>

G2000:

Some diamonds (Type 2?) can have a thermal conductivity 20 times that of
copper at low temperatures! And I boosted "Thermatomic Carbon" (= carbon
black?) as being the best insulation for a 3000C graphite tube furnace. So,
carbon in its many forms covers the whole range from highest to lowest
thermal conduction.

Nice to hear a scientific discussion here at old Gasification 2000. Tom
Miles says we have 200-300 members, but most of them are tongue tied. I hope
that each of you will identify yourselves to the others once before the New
Year-Century-Millenium - or consider unsubscribing.

TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 12/10/99 8:45:48 AM Mountain Standard Time,
dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu writes:

<<
At 08:08 AM 12/10/99 +1000, you wrote:
>
>My understanding is that the reason people can walk on "hot" coals is that
>the charcoal insulates them from the smouldering remains below. Surely the
>insulating value of carbon is strongly dependant on the form the carbon is
>in. So, perhaps diamonds are good conductors.
> >>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 11 17:53:57 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal Discussions, where's the STOVES?
Message-ID: <0.44209f7d.25843130@cs.com>

Dear Lists and Tom Miles:

Half my mail seems to be on charcoal these days.

Formerly the charcoal discussions were mostly on STOVES. Now they have
drifted over to GASIFICATION.

I am as interested in the thousands of forms of charcoal as anyone and glad
to read the discussions. However, I wonder if this continual interest
doesn't indicate that we should have a separate CREST site for charcoal.
After all, it was humanity's first synthetic fuel; without it we would never
have developed metals, hence computers, hence Email, hence this list!

There seems to be tremendous resurgence of interest in CHARCOAL, from the
small production to commercial activated, but the science is typically thin.
(Danny day [www.scientificcarbons.com]: Say something about your site and
production).

Hate to proliferate sites, but CHARCOAL (or CARBON) is definitely a
candidate.

Incidentally, what has happened to WOOD COOKING STOVES for developing
countries, the original subject of STOVES? Have we lost interest?
Frustration? Our Tubo stove is going in to beta testing soon.

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 11 17:54:09 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as a CONDUCTOR???
Message-ID: <0.8476fe8f.2584313d@cs.com>

Peter and all...

Charcoal a good conductor of heat?? Nonsense! Metals are GREAT conductors
(through the electron mobility). Diamonds are great. Some ceramics OK.

Charcoal? Not. That's why your feet can conduct heat away from the burning
surface faster than it arrives in a fire pit and not even blister.

That's why water cooling the auger doesn't cool the charcoal very well.

Yours, TOM REED BEF PRESS

In a message dated 12/7/99 8:04:05 PM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net
writes:

<< Sorry -- forgot one point --

Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat.


Peter/Belize
Gasifi >>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 11 17:54:14 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <0.3cc358fd.25843146@cs.com>

Dear Tom Taylor et al:

With all this exchange of info on various forms of carbon, I started to list
a few, then realized a few would be a few hundred.

THERMATOMIC CARBON is made by decomposing carbon containing materials on a
hot mandrel, such that the graphite crystals are oriented parallel to the
mandrel surface. The graphite crystals are highly anisotropic and conduct
heat only in the plane. So you can heat one side, burn the fingers holding
the edges far away, and not burn the finger 1/2 cm away. Neat stuff for
crucibles (I used to be the chief crystal grower at MIT, so had to know lots
about crucibles etc.)

The density and form of carbon have a lot to do with the rate of reaction
with steam and CO2. High density forms are very resistant to reaction, even
when incandescent.

As to why they don't use more carbon, it must be in the top ten chemicals in
sales, but under many names. Every tire contains 30 % carbon black. That
adds up.

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 12/6/99 10:04:54 AM Mountain Standard Time,
LINVENT@aol.com writes:

<<
Dear Tom Reed et. al.,
I once saw a demonstration of a thin layer of graphite or some form of
carbon filament cloth being heated on one side with an acetlyene torch and
being held against a guys hand. Very impressive. Apparently the carbon
would conduct heat in one direction only and would conduct it across the
cloth instead of through it. While working at Sandia National Labs, we used
a laser to excite a sample on a mass spectrometer and had a white substance
left on the surface which we later found out what it was which found out to
be a form of carbon formed under high temperature and vacuum, so with this,
there are innumerable forms of carbon in the universe and one or another may
have properties which fit better than any other material.
I do not understand several things about this such as why carbon based
compounds are not more widely used, why carbon can be exposed to high
temperature conditions which will normally destroy carbon such as steam
activation of carbon to activated carbon which will normally form CO and H2,
and why the carbon heated with an acetlyene torch on one side did not merely
burn?
Any answers?

Sincerely,

Tom Taylor >>
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From tmiles at teleport.com Sat Dec 11 21:26:29 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991211183520.00c41be0@mail.teleport.com>

Dear List Members,

I've created a couple of web pages with links that have been posted to the
bioenergy lists as another way of finding useful sources of information
from list members.

Look at:

http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

Regards,

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208
Portland, Oregon, USA 97225

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From ticu at rdsor.ro Sun Dec 12 01:29:57 1999
From: ticu at rdsor.ro (Cornel Ticarat)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Average or maximum service temperature? Density?
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00696375202020203030303430303034@MAPI.to.RFC822>

Peter and Darren,

You have given as follows:

<<Thermal conductivity - K = btu/(hr)(ft)(deg.F.)

Material: K

Carbon, Graphite 2.9
Chalk .15
Coke, powdered .11
Concrete, stone .7
Cotton .03
Fire Brick .75
Glass .3
Porcelain .83
Quartz 3.9
Sawdust .03
Wool .02
Stainless Steel 12.0
Copper 223.0 >>

As fas as I know, the thermal conductivity of a certain material varies with the temperature it is used with and with its density. If so, what are the temperatures for each of the above materials at the given K values? Densities of the materials?
I need that information as I am interested in finding some very good insulating material (with a very low thermal conductivity) for a kiln. Thanks.

Cornel / Romania

 

 

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From snkm at btl.net Sun Dec 12 11:14:47 1999
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as a CONDUCTOR???
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991212101014.0075f760@wgs1.btl.net>

At 05:59 PM 12/11/99 EST, you wrote:
>Peter and all...
>
>Charcoal a good conductor of heat?? Nonsense! Metals are GREAT conductors
>(through the electron mobility). Diamonds are great. Some ceramics OK.

All true -- but when you need a conductor at 3000F??? Say for instance you
need to imbed boiler tubing in an extremely hot fire box. (I actually have
one such "problem" regarding an incinerator operating at 3200F for
destruction of toxic wastes)

The problem with carbon in that application is that it will burn off.
However, I have always wondered about thin coating it with another
refractory ---

In this problem it is of extreme importance to transmit as much heat as
possible through a limited surface area.

Carbon -- in the form of hard graphite -- is a conductor for this application.

As diamond is expensive -- and metals melt --

Just some "thoughts".

Peter Singfield / Belize

>Charcoal? Not. That's why your feet can conduct heat away from the burning
>surface faster than it arrives in a fire pit and not even blister.
>
>That's why water cooling the auger doesn't cool the charcoal very well.
>
>Yours, TOM REED BEF PRESS
>
>In a message dated 12/7/99 8:04:05 PM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net
>writes:
>
><< Sorry -- forgot one point --
>
> Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat.
>
>
> Peter/Belize
> Gasifi >>
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From snkm at btl.net Sun Dec 12 11:14:51 1999
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991212102322.0075f760@wgs1.btl.net>

Dear Tom Reed et al:

Thermatomic Carbon sounds incredible! You are discussing the ultimate heat
pipe (for high temperature conditions).

Kind of a fiber optics of thermodynamics!

> Every tire contains 30 % carbon black. That
>adds up.

I thought it closer to 50%??

15 years ago I built a small gasifier (12 in high by 6 in diameter) that
worked on pieces of car tire.

The ash pit accumulated pure carbon black along with fiberglass and steel
(the other components of modern tires). Zinc condensed in a lateral arm.

What was always surprising was how "clean" the fiber glass and steal was.

A simple shaking through a mesh separated everything.

I believe Don Cox -- another member of this list -- still has a video of
this little machine in operation.

Waste tires is the single greatest "resource" that we are ignoring. Designs
to utilize this waste have been far to complicated to date -- plus the
"Greens" are ready to attack any such attempt --

Peter

At 05:59 PM 12/11/99 EST, you wrote:
>Dear Tom Taylor et al:
>
>With all this exchange of info on various forms of carbon, I started to list
>a few, then realized a few would be a few hundred.
>
>THERMATOMIC CARBON is made by decomposing carbon containing materials on a
>hot mandrel, such that the graphite crystals are oriented parallel to the
>mandrel surface. The graphite crystals are highly anisotropic and conduct
>heat only in the plane. So you can heat one side, burn the fingers holding
>the edges far away, and not burn the finger 1/2 cm away. Neat stuff for
>crucibles (I used to be the chief crystal grower at MIT, so had to know lots
>about crucibles etc.)
>
>The density and form of carbon have a lot to do with the rate of reaction
>with steam and CO2. High density forms are very resistant to reaction, even
>when incandescent.
>
>As to why they don't use more carbon, it must be in the top ten chemicals in
>sales, but under many names. Every tire contains 30 % carbon black. That
>adds up.
>
>Yours truly, TOM REED BEF
>
>In a message dated 12/6/99 10:04:54 AM Mountain Standard Time,
>LINVENT@aol.com writes:
>
><<
> Dear Tom Reed et. al.,
> I once saw a demonstration of a thin layer of graphite or some form of
> carbon filament cloth being heated on one side with an acetlyene torch and
> being held against a guys hand. Very impressive. Apparently the carbon
> would conduct heat in one direction only and would conduct it across the
> cloth instead of through it. While working at Sandia National Labs, we
used
> a laser to excite a sample on a mass spectrometer and had a white substance
> left on the surface which we later found out what it was which found out to
> be a form of carbon formed under high temperature and vacuum, so with this,
> there are innumerable forms of carbon in the universe and one or another
may
> have properties which fit better than any other material.
> I do not understand several things about this such as why carbon based
> compounds are not more widely used, why carbon can be exposed to high
> temperature conditions which will normally destroy carbon such as steam
> activation of carbon to activated carbon which will normally form CO and
H2,
> and why the carbon heated with an acetlyene torch on one side did not
merely
> burn?
> Any answers?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Tom Taylor >>
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From snkm at btl.net Sun Dec 12 11:14:47 1999
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal Discussions, where's the STOVES?
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991212095951.0075f760@wgs1.btl.net>

Tom;

>Incidentally, what has happened to WOOD COOKING STOVES for developing
>countries, the original subject of STOVES? Have we lost interest?
>Frustration? Our Tubo stove is going in to beta testing soon.
>
>Yours truly, TOM REED BEF
>Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
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As a member of the 3rd world -- yes -- I am interested!! Unfortunately --
being a relative New Be to this list -- this is the first time I have heard
of it?

Maybe you could "review" this technology?

Peter / Belize
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From JackProot at aol.com Sun Dec 12 11:28:02 1999
From: JackProot at aol.com (JackProot@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Average or maximum service temperature? Density?
Message-ID: <0.a3071b2f.25852840@aol.com>

In a message dated 99-12-12 01:37:25 EST, you write:

<< I am interested in finding some very good insulating material (with a
very low thermal conductivity) for a kiln. >>

Thanks for the list of conductivities in BTU/hr.ft.F
Just multiply by 1.73 to get the normal W/m.K :-)

For your kiln, YOU should define the maximum temperature. There
is no such thing as a universal material.
The general principle is to use at least two layers of refractories :

- an inside layer, in contact with the material and with strong mechanical
properties : high resistance to reactions and attrition, high density and
(generally, alas) high conductivity. For instance firebricks with a
conductivity of about 0.5 to 1 W/m.K.
This is the conductivity in the cold. It increases with temperature
to maybe 1.3 to 2.6 W/m.K at 1250 deg.C.
Very rough values, as there are lots of bricks around ...
Some dense refractory concretes may also be used.

- an outside layer of light refractory concrete, between the dense layer
and the steel shell. It doesn't have the resistance of the other layer
but determines the overall heat loss. See commercial catalogs.
As an indication, a typical conductivity would be 0.2 W/m.K in the
cold and 0.55 at 1250 deg.C

As a general rule : density, strenght and conductivity are linked.

Hope it helps.

Jacques Proot
damned metallurgist
Montreal

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From bywateri at southern.co.nz Sun Dec 12 22:04:45 1999
From: bywateri at southern.co.nz (Ian Bywater)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Sewage Sludge Gasification
Message-ID: <v01540b20b47a22fe5ac9@[202.37.189.104]>

Dear Dr Peacocke

Are you dealing with spent sludge after anaerobic digestion production of
methane?

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Ian Bywater, B.Sc.(Eng), C.Eng, MIEE, MIPENZ
Office: Level 1, 61 Kilmore Street, Christchurch
Phone: +64-33-79-63-33
Mobile: 025 205 2234
Fax: +64-33-65-41-46
Email: bywateri@southern.co.nz

Home: 118G Panorama Road
Christchurch 8008
Aotearoa/New Zealand
Phone: +64-33-26-57-58

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

 

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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Dec 13 11:25:40 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: WOOD GAS vs BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION
Message-ID: <0.4ca2995e.25867938@cs.com>

Dear All:

I am in the process of updating my page and making it more user friendly. I
am buying a domain name ($19/mo). I am considering

www.woodgas.com

as being very close to my prime interest and more generic and likely to be
found than my present BEF (Biomass Energy Foundation) name.

Comments?

Thanks, TOM REED BEF
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From delange at bioelettrica.it Mon Dec 13 11:54:15 1999
From: delange at bioelettrica.it (Henk de Lange)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: O&M services for 14 MWe IGCC plant
Message-ID: <000c01bf458b$5056cde0$0c20a8c0@bioelettrica.it>

Dear List,

Our company is building a biomass-fuelled, 14 MWe integrated gasification
combined-cycle plant near Pisa in Italy. Commissioning is envisaged to
commence in summer 2001.
It is the intention of the company to outsource operation-and-maintenance of
the plant and we are looking for companies capable of providing these
services.
As we are approaching the tendering phase, I would be grateful to hear from
companies interested, subscribers to this List perhaps, and to receive
suggestions from List members regarding possibly interested companies.

I thank you in advance for your effort.

Henk de Lange

--------------------------------------------------
Henk de Lange
Technical Manager
Bioelettrica S.p.A.
Via Cesare Battisti, 47
56125 PISA
ITALY
Tel. +39-050-535479
Fax +39-050-535477
e-mail: delange@bioelettrica.it

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From T.Jayah at devtech.unimelb.edu.au Wed Dec 15 01:43:58 1999
From: T.Jayah at devtech.unimelb.edu.au (Tuan Haris Jayah)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Ultimate Analysis of Rubber Wood
Message-ID: <199912150643.BAA24134@solstice.crest.org>

Hi there,

Could anyone provide me the ultimate analysis of rubber wood? I need it for
my gasifier modelling.

Thanks

Tuan Jayah

------------------------------------------------------------
IDTC
Dept. of Civil & Environmental Engineering
Faculty of Engineering
The University of Melbourne
Parkville Victoria 3052
AUSTRALIA
------------------------------------------------------------

From paisley at BATTELLE.ORG Wed Dec 15 10:11:38 1999
From: paisley at BATTELLE.ORG (Paisley, Mark A)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <CAD5FA6C4518D311B14800A0C98439DF45CA07@ns-bco-mse5.im.battelle.org>

To the list:

I have changed employers from Battelle to FERCO (the licensee of the
gasification process) and may now be reached at

Future Energy Resources Corporation
3500 Parkway Lane
Suite 440
Norcross GA 30092

or:

2720 Bristol Road
Columbus OH 43221
(614) 893-7312
fax (614) 459-8579

email address: markpaisley@columbus.rr.com

Mark Paisley
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 11:33:20 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <0.f9320c1.25891e01@cs.com>

Dear Peter and all:

I visited a waste tire gasifier plant in Utah last week. They are sending me
a few bushels of "tire crumb". I will test them in our turbo stove.

TOM REED

In a message dated 12/12/99 9:23:50 AM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net
writes:

<< Waste tires is the single greatest "resource" that we are ignoring. Designs
to utilize this waste have been far to complicated to date -- plus the
"Greens" are ready to attack any such attempt --

Peter
>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 11:36:18 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Heat Shield Insulation
Message-ID: <0.63b5a141.25891eb0@cs.com>

Dear Peter and all:

Since radiation goes up as T^4 and conduction/convection only as T, it is
important to understand the role of radiation in high temperature insulation.

The radiant heat flow is Q = A s e T^4

where A is the area, s is the Stefan Boltzmann Coefficient (5.67XT^4/10^12
w/cm2 K^4) and e is the emissivity, ~1 for carbon, ~.05 for silver or gold
and T is the absolute temperature in Kelvins.)

If a hot body at Tb is surrounded by a radiation shield at Ts, Ts will reach
a temperature such that up to half the radiation goes out from the shield and
half is returned to the body at Tb. Then a series of radiation shields will
reduce heat loss by (2e)^n.

A powdered insulation acts like a series of heat shields with very large n,
so that particle size is very important. The thermal conductivity of
thermatomic carbon or other powdered insulation depends primarily on particle
size and not on the thermal conductivity of each particle. (A bit like
"equivalent plates" in packed distillation columns.)

I have used a spiral of tantalum surrounding a tungsten heating element to
grow crystals at 2700C. I also have found that an aluminum foil spiral does
a good job of insulating our turbo stove. Live and learn. I'm 179 years old
and still learning. (Just kidding).

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF

 

In a message dated 12/12/99 9:22:35 AM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net
writes:

<<
Carbon -- in the form of hard graphite -- is a conductor for this
application.

As diamond is expensive -- and metals melt --

Just some "thoughts".

Peter Singfield / Belize
>>
Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From antonio.hilst at merconet.com.br Wed Dec 15 11:57:25 1999
From: antonio.hilst at merconet.com.br (Antonio G. P. Hilst)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator?
In-Reply-To: <601A55066596D211A7AD00104BC6FB254CE628@catalina.eerc.und.NoDak.edu>
Message-ID: <385127E8.C02317E2@merconet.com.br>

Dear Darren Schmidt,
What about very wet steam, enough water drops to cool the charcoal quickly due
to water evaporation which will take a lot of heat off the carbon mass? Does it
make sense?
Antonio.

"Schmidt, Darren" wrote:

> From:
> Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager
> Energy & Environmental Research Center
> PO Box 9018
> Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202
> dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu
> Ph (701) 777-5120
> Fax (701) 777-5181
>
> Thought this discussion was interesting. Here is another 2 cents worth.
> I couldn't find any thing telling me how to define wether something is an
> insulator or a conductor. According to the dictionary the real definition
> would be relative. So in your sense you are right, when comparing
> fiberglass insulation k=0.026 to concrete k=0.7, which is 26 times greater,
> and comparing concrete to graphite k=2.9. I thought of charcoal as an
> insulator because I was thinking in terms of a different case. Charcoal
> powder k=0.029. At one time I was looking at heat conductivity and basically
> comparing charcoal to steel and water. steel k=26.2, water k=0.343
>
> Here is the case: When removing charcoal from the our gasifier it came out
> hot (approx. 400 - 1000°F) and needed to be cooled before dumping it into a
> super sack or whatever. We were looking at economical ways to cool it down.
> One method was just to water jacket augers and vessels. As it turned out
> the water jacket wasn't much better than natural air convection, and the
> thermal conductivity of charcoal played and important factor.
>
> Details: The heat transfer of an auger should be better than a stationary
> hopper due to the mixing of the particles, however it is not beneficial to
> water jacket the auger. Four items effect heat transfer in this problem: 1.
> inner film coefficient, 2. TC of charcoal, 3. TC of steel auger wall, 4.
> outer film coefficient. (TC - Thermal conductivity) The most limiting factor
> is expected to be the outer film coefficient, that is the justification for
> a water jacket, however, as it turns out, the TC of the charcoal at a 1/8
> inch layer is equivalent to the outer film coefficient. So, any heat
> conductivity gain a water jacket supplies, the charcoal layer remains to
> limit along with the inner film coefficient. In this case charcoal was too
> much of an insulator.
>
> Here are some bulk densities and corresponding thermal conductivities
> (btu/hr ft F):
> Charcoal powder 11.5 lb/ft^3, 0.029,
> Graphite solid 93.5 lb/ft^3, 87,
> Diamond 151 lb/ft^3, 320.
> Carbon black 12 lb/ft^3, 0.012.
>
> Peter wrote: Charcoal is a very porous medium of carbon. Graphite is not!
> And diamonds
> even less again!
>
> Peter wrote: But here are some figures of interest.
>
> Thermal conductivity - K = btu/(hr)(ft)(deg.F.)
>
> Material: K
>
> Carbon, Graphite 2.9
> Chalk .15
> Coke, powdered .11
> Concrete, stone .7
> Cotton .03
> Fire Brick .75
> Glass .3
> Porcelain .83
> Quartz 3.9
> Sawdust .03
> Wool .02
> Stainless Steel 12.0
> Copper 223.0
>
> Peter Wrote: So -- if you built the walls of your house out of carbon (as
> graphite) --
> they would have to be four times thicker than if they were built of cemment
> to give the same insulation factor. And where I come from -- we call bare
> cement walls uninsulated!!
>
> Peter wrote: Or to put it another way -- a graphite wall 100 inches thick
> would be
> roughly the same insulation factor as a sawdust wall one inch thick.
>
> Peter wrote:Some heat insulator -- eh??
>
> Peter wrote:I was waiting for some one else to catch this -- nobody knew??
>
> Peter/Belize
>
> At 08:08 AM 12/10/99 +1000, you wrote:
> >
> >My understanding is that the reason people can walk on "hot" coals is that
> >the charcoal insulates them from the smouldering remains below. Surely the
> >insulating value of carbon is strongly dependant on the form the carbon is
> >in. So, perhaps diamonds are good conductors.
> >
> >James Joyce
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > "Schmidt, Darren"
>
> > <dschmidt@eerc.und. To:
> "'gasification@crest.org'"
> > nodak.edu> <gasification@crest.org>
>
> > Sent by: cc:
>
> > owner-gasification@ Subject: RE: GAS-L:
> Charcoal as an Insulator?
> > crest.org
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 10/12/99 00:46
>
> > Please respond to
>
> > gasification
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >Look up the thermal conductivity of carbon and compare to other materials.
> >It is an insulator.
> >
> >Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager
> >Energy & Environmental Research Center
> >PO Box 9018
> >Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202
> >dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu
> >Ph (701) 777-5120
> >Fax (701) 777-5181
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net]
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:06 PM
> >To: gasification@crest.org
> >Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator?
> >
> >
> >Sorry -- forgot one point --
> >
> >Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat.
> >
> >
> >Peter/Belize
> >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
> >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> >Gasification Projects
> >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
> >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> >Gasification Projects
> >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
> >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> >Gasification Projects
> >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> >
> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> Gasification Projects
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> Gasification Projects
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml

Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
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http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Dec 15 15:20:21 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal
In-Reply-To: <199912151757.MAA05536@solstice.crest.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991215110701.03303540@mail.teleport.com>

Mike,

Is this what you're thinking of?
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

If you, Scientific Carbons, Transnational Technologies, Dynamotive and
others will help sponsor the lists we'd be happy to build out a Renewable
Carbon site at CREST.

Sponsorship is $300/year, or $25/mo with a minimum of 4 months.

See http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml and send CREST a check.

Happy Holidays

Tom Miles

 

At 08:57 AM 12/15/99 -1000, Michael Antal wrote:
>Dear Tom and stovers: I would be willing to make modest monetary
>contributions to a charcoal (renewable carbon) web site. Increasingly, I
>think that charcoal (not hydrogen) is the fuel of the future. Happy
>holidays! Michael Antal.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208
Portland, Oregon, USA 97225

Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From enecon at ozemail.com.au Wed Dec 15 18:02:25 1999
From: enecon at ozemail.com.au (Colin Stucley)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Ultimate Analysis of Rubber Wood
Message-ID: <01bf4751$86907380$eb8a54d2@col-s-pc>

 

We received your email via CREST. Sorry, we
cannot assist with rubber tree analysis.  Try CSIRO in Clayton for links to
Asian tree research, or the Tropical Products Institute in the UK (I do not have
contact details)

We are a  Melbourne based engineering company that is
very active in wood to energy.  We would be interested to learn more of
your work. Do you have a summary that you can send us?

Kind regards,

Colin Stucley
Managing Director 
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
-----Original Message-----From:
Tuan Haris Jayah <<A
href="mailto:T.Jayah@devtech.unimelb.edu.au">T.Jayah@devtech.unimelb.edu.au>To:
undisclosed-recipients:; <undisclosed-recipients:;>Date:
Wednesday, 15 December 1999 5:55 PMSubject: GAS-L: Ultimate
Analysis of Rubber WoodHi there, Could anyone provide
me the ultimate analysis of rubber wood? I need it for my gasifier
modelling. Thanks Tuan Jayah
------------------------------------------------------------ IDTC Dept. of
Civil & Environmental Engineering Faculty of Engineering The University
of Melbourne Parkville Victoria 3052 AUSTRALIA
------------------------------------------------------------

From enecon at ozemail.com.au Wed Dec 15 21:13:30 1999
From: enecon at ozemail.com.au (Jim Bland)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New subscriber
Message-ID: <007a01bf476b$d876cb80$9c8654d2@jimspc>

 

We would like to introduce ourselves to the
gasification, bioenergy and bioconversion list members.  Enecon is a small
consulting engineering company in Melbourne, Australia with interests in
conversion of biomass, particularly wood and wood wastes, to electricity,
charcoal and activated carbon.  Our skills are in identifying opportunities
for projects and in selecting suitable technologies for their
implementation.

We have subscribed to the Stoves list for some
time, and found it interesting and useful, particularly regarding charcoal
manufacturing, and look forward to receiving further advice from and
contributing to the new lists.

At the moment we are looking for a machine for
briquetting of fine wood wastes, such as green sawdust or chipped bark, into
small "logs", say 300 long x 80 mm diameter (12 long x 3"
diameter).  Input of heat would be needed to evaporate water and to assist
the binding action.  Capacity about 1 ton/h. The product would be used as
a feed to a gasifier.  Some people have suggested a screw press, but we
haven't found anyone who makes anything suitable.  Can anyone
help?

We're also looking for units that would process
wheat husks and oat hulls in a similar way.

Regards,

Jim Bland
Enecon Pty. Ltd.
210 Canterbury Rd.,
Canterbury 3126
Australia
+61-3-9888 6711 (tel)
+61-3-9888 6744 (fax)

From vvnk at teri.res.in Thu Dec 16 04:17:29 1999
From: vvnk at teri.res.in (V V N Kishore)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Volumetric Analysis of Producer Gas
Message-ID: <s858fccb.092@dakghar.teri.res.in>

Prof.P.D.Grover or Siddhardh Gaur will know the answer as they operated a charcoal gasifier way back in the eighties.

>>> <Reedtb2@cs.com> 12/03/99 05:12AM >>>
Dear Andrew:

Good question! I too have gone looking for "charcoal gas" composition in,
for instance, our Gen-Gas book without success.

Pure carbon gasification of course would follow

C + 1/2 O2 ==> CO

for which the O/F(wt) ratio is 1.33 and the A/F ratio would be 6.37. This
results in a MUCH higher nitrogen content and lower gas energy content.

But of course charcoal is not C - lots of volatiles, and in many cases it is
being gasified with steam or CO2 as well, or even with producer pyrolysis gas.

If you get an7y good analyses, let me know.

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 12/1/99 12:07:34 PM Mountain Standard Time,
apchick@dmu.ac.uk writes:

<<


Hello,

Could anyone help me with a reference for the volumetric analysis of
producer gas, when the feedstock for gasification is Charcoal.

I have lots of data for wood, e.g.
Producer Gas Composition
%CO 21.0
%H2 14.5
%N2 48.16
% CH4 1.6
%CO2 9.7
%Water Vapour 4.8
CV Wood = 15 MJ/kg and Producer Gas 5.5 MJ/m3

but no published data for Charcoal. I have experimental data for
gasifier efficiency with charcoal, and a theoretical model that predicts
volumetric gas composition for charcoal. I would like to compare my
results with some published results, can anyone help me with a suitable
reference source?

A >>
Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
Gasification Projects
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml

Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
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http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Dec 16 07:13:52 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet
Message-ID: <0.c51d3867.258a32b1@cs.com>

Mark:

Sounds like Burlington must be working if you are going with FERCO.

Moving South??

TOM REED

In a message dated 12/15/99 8:20:18 AM Mountain Standard Time,
paisley@BATTELLE.ORG writes:

<<
I have changed employers from Battelle to FERCO (the licensee of the
gasification process) and may now be reached at

Future Energy Resources Corporation
3500 Parkway Lane
Suite 440
Norcross GA 30092

or:

2720 Bristol Road
Columbus OH 43221
(614) 893-7312
fax (614) 459-8579

email address: markpaisley@columbus.rr.com

Mark Paisley
Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>>
Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
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http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From arcate at email.msn.com Thu Dec 16 13:38:39 1999
From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal
Message-ID: <002a01bf47f5$f6d86680$0100007f@localhost>

Hello Tom Miles & Gasification:

Promoting high yield charcoal for power plants, etc.has not generated any
green for Transnational Technology. It's brown, not black, but Torrefied
Wood costs less to make and contains more of the wood's energy than
charcoal.

Please see the new Transnational Technology web site www.techtp.com

I see Torrefied Wood is listed on
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
under advanced processes. That's great, renewable ideas are good for
Renewable Energy.

happy holidays,

Jim Arcate

 

 

Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From costaeec at kcnet.com Thu Dec 16 14:45:26 1999
From: costaeec at kcnet.com (Jim Dunham)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New subscriber
Message-ID: <003601bf47fb$aa9f6740$8a65f0d1@default>

 

Our firm specializes in biomass densification of
all types. We have several brands and types of 'log-makers', new and used. We
don't want to use this forum for trade, but if you would contact us directly we
would be glad to make reccomendations for your project. It is quite routine
actually, and if your material is under 15% moisture, no additives or binders
are needed.

Jim Dunham
Environmental Eng. Corp. (EEC)
600 South Woodland Drive
Kansas City, MO  USA  64118
816-452-1177  fax-452-6663

<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
-----Original M
essage-----From: Jim Bland
<<A
href="mailto:enecon@ozemail.com.au">enecon@ozemail.com.au>To:
gasification@crest.org
<gasification@crest.org>;
bioenergy@crest.org <<A
href="mailto:bioenergy@crest.org">bioenergy@crest.org>; <A
href="mailto:bioconversion@crest.org">bioconversion@crest.org <<A
href="mailto:bioconversion@crest.org">bioconversion@crest.org>Date:
Wednesday, December 15, 1999 8:21 PMSubject: GAS-L: New
subscriber
We would like to introduce ourselves to the
gasification, bioenergy and bioconversion list members.  Enecon is a
small consulting engineering company in Melbourne, Australia with interests
in conversion of biomass, particularly wood and wood wastes, to electricity,
charcoal and activated carbon.  Our skills are in identifying
opportunities for projects and in selecting suitable technologies for their
implementation.

We have subscribed to the Stoves list for some
time, and found it interesting and useful, particularly regarding charcoal
manufacturing, and look forward to receiving further advice from and
contributing to the new lists.

At the moment we are looking for a machine for
briquetting of fine wood wastes, such as green sawdust or chipped bark, into
small "logs", say 300 long x 80 mm diameter (12 long x
3" diameter).  Input of heat would be needed to evaporate water
and to assist the binding action.  Capacity about 1 ton/h. The product
would be used as a feed to a gasifier.  Some people have suggested a
screw press, but we haven't found anyone who makes anything suitable. 
Can anyone help?

We're also looking for units that would process
wheat husks and oat hulls in a similar way.

Regards,

Jim Bland
Enecon Pty. Ltd.
210 Canterbury Rd.,
Canterbury 3126
Australia
+61-3-9888 6711 (tel)
+61-3-9888 6744 (fax)

From tmiles at teleport.com Thu Dec 16 21:08:55 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal
In-Reply-To: <002a01bf47f5$f6d86680$0100007f@localhost>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991216181658.036a7780@mail.teleport.com>

Where does Convertech fit in the spectrum of wood-to-charcoal?

If I remember correctly that's a process that does some drying and some
carbonization. The product I saw and smelled years ago was decidedly brown:
if it wasn't torrified it was al least frightened. (That's a term my
English aunt used to describe searing meat: you didn't sear it you
frightened it.)

Is Ian still online?

Tom

At 08:47 AM 12/16/99 -1000, Jim Arcate wrote:
>Hello Tom Miles & Gasification:
>
>Promoting high yield charcoal for power plants, etc.has not generated any
>green for Transnational Technology. It's brown, not black, but Torrefied
>Wood costs less to make and contains more of the wood's energy than
>charcoal.
>
>Please see the new Transnational Technology web site www.techtp.com
>
>I see Torrefied Wood is listed on
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>under advanced processes. That's great, renewable ideas are good for
>Renewable Energy.
>
>happy holidays,
>
>Jim Arcate
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208
Portland, Oregon, USA 97225

Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
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http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Dec 17 09:14:03 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Ultimate Analysis of Rubber Wood, producer gas etc.
Message-ID: <0.9d5f9da8.258ba061@cs.com>

Gasifiers all:

There is entirely too much emphasis on getting exact analyses of wood,
wood-gas etc.

Coal varies widely in composition. However, if you look at the atomic ratio
C H O analyses of >100 species of biomass in our "THERMAL DATA FOR NATURAL
AND SYNTHETIC FUELS", (T. Reed, S. Gaur, Dekker Press, 1998) you will see
trivial variations around the generic ratio formula

BIOMASS = C H (1.4) O (0.6).
High HEAT OF COMBUSTION, 22 kJ/g Low Heat 21 kJ/g
Heat of Formation -3.8 kJ/g

(This all comes from "Thermodynamics of Gas-Char Reactions" by Ray Desroseirs
(now at Texas Tech) in our (SERI/NREL) 1981 "Biomass Gasification: Principles
and Technology", Noyes Data Corp., unfortunately out of print.)

This is because, (unlike coal), Nature requires cellulose, hemicellulose and
lignin in proportions close to 2:1:1 to make biomass.

These remarks only apply to biomass on a moisture and ash free basis, these
being major variables in practical biomass and easily factored back in.
~~~~~~~~~~~

PRODUCER GAS from biomass also has a relatively narrow composition range,
hovering around 50% nitrogen. Unfortunately most measurements are flawed by
not including moisture content, so we lose ability to close mass balances.

Of course

So get busy and start modeling and forget exact analyses.

In a message dated 12/15/99 4:17:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,
enecon@ozemail.com.au writes:

<<
Hi there, Could anyone provide me the ultimate analysis of rubber wood?
I need it for my gasifier modelling. Thanks Tuan Jayah
------------------------------------------------------------ IDTC Dept. of
Civil & Environmental Engineering Faculty of Engineering The University of
Melbourne Parkville Victoria 3052 AUSTRALIA
----------------------------------------- >>
Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Dec 17 09:14:17 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Tom who???
Message-ID: <0.299a6b29.258ba06a@cs.com>

Dear ...:

There are too many TOMs in gasification/stoves, (Tom Miles, Tom Milne, Tom
Taylor, apologies to those missed) so please use last names as well when
refering to TOMs ...

And, your humble servant,

TOM REED BEF
Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Dec 17 09:15:17 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Hydrogen vs charcoal
Message-ID: <0.85e68a28.258ba065@cs.com>

Dear all:

As I get older (but not old) I increasingly agree with Mike Antal about
charcoal being the real fuel of the real future.

In 1970 or so, the so called "hydrogen economy" burst upon us. Initially it
was based on the premise that with the then burgeoning nuclear power,
electricity would be free, but we would need a storable, transportable fuel
for cars etc.

(Hydrogenis a great chemical - widely used in many chemical plants, but
hydrogen is the most expensive, least storable and transportable of all
fuels. The only real world regular use of hydrogen is by glass and quartz
blowers, all else is subsidized. Methane is better, propane and dimethyl
ether outstanding, liquid hydrocarbons and alcohols are great.)

The dreamers seized on the beauty of a fuel so clean that the only byproduct
was water and you could drink the exhaust of your car. Personally I have
never needed to do that. If I were a plant I would much prefer H2O and CO2
as an exhaust product. Dream on, dreamers (I think they still meet yearly).

The DOE is regularly pressurized into subsidizing hydrogen programs to
improve the dismal properties of hydrogen as a fuel - expensive to make, hard
to store and knocks in engines unless you dilute it (as with producer gas).

The only virtue I give hydrogen is that it is the easiest fuel for use in
fuel cells, and we hope that lead will disappear with carbonate, phosphate
and solid oxide cells which can handle real world hydrogen-carbon mixed
fuels.

Meanwhile Nature uses sugars as her preferred fuel and we use either
hydrocarbons or alcohols for easily transported liquid fuels.

~~~~~~

Charcoal has many drawbacks --- but has been the principal fuel of humans for
20,000 years and we have learned to work around them.

Making wood into charcoal typically gives yields of 30% in industrial
processes and 15-20% in backward countries where it is still one of the few
simple fuel options. So, 70-80% of the wood's energy is wasted in simple
charcoal manufacture.

Ron Larson (our stove moderator) has long been an enthusiast for charcoal
(and our top burning gasifier) because of extensive experience in Africa.

Prof. Mike Antal at the U. of Hawaii has developed a process for making o 45%
yield charcoal from wood. I hope he will take this opportunity to give us
all an overview of where that stands now. What fraction of the original wood
energy is captured?

Charcoal is a necessary product of wood pyrolysis and pyrolysis is a
necessary step in wood gasification and combustion. By properly gasifying
the charcoal intermediate during gasification, it is possible to make very
low tar and ash producer gas, so we in GASIFICATION need to pay attention to
the charcoal.

Millenial Cheers,

TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 12/15/99 1:29:47 PM Mountain Standard Time,
tmiles@teleport.com writes:

<< At 08:57 AM 12/15/99 -1000, Michael Antal wrote:
>Dear Tom and stovers: I would be willing to make modest monetary
>contributions to a charcoal (renewable carbon) web site. Increasingly, I
>think that charcoal (not hydrogen) is the fuel of the future. Happy
>holidays! Michael Antal.
>>
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From informat at nagpur.dot.net.in Fri Dec 17 10:53:01 1999
From: informat at nagpur.dot.net.in (UNIVERSAL INFORMATICS)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconut husk charcoal
In-Reply-To: <0.f9320c1.25891e01@cs.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991217214026.007aa100@nagpur.dot.net.in>

Can somebody inform me where I can get a report on the status of charcoal
from coconut husk please?
-Sudheer Bhagade

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From boilrmkr at surfsouth.com Fri Dec 17 12:36:21 1999
From: boilrmkr at surfsouth.com (Gene Zebley)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Tom who???
In-Reply-To: <0.299a6b29.258ba06a@cs.com>
Message-ID: <385A7290.D224ACEF@surfsouth.com>

O.K. Tom .....

Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:

> Dear ...:
>
> There are too many TOMs in gasification/stoves, (Tom Miles, Tom Milne, Tom
> Taylor, apologies to those missed) so please use last names as well when
> refering to TOMs ...
>
> And, your humble servant,
>
> TOM REED BEF
> Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

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From markpaisley at columbus.rr.com Fri Dec 17 14:38:58 1999
From: markpaisley at columbus.rr.com (Mark Paisley)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet
In-Reply-To: <0.c51d3867.258a32b1@cs.com>
Message-ID: <001001bf48c6$fe5e9880$bc8d1a18@columbus.rr.com>

Tom,

Not at this time. I will still be HQ'd in Columbus.

Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: <Reedtb2@cs.com>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:18 AM
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet

> Mark:
>
> Sounds like Burlington must be working if you are going with FERCO.
>
> Moving South??
>
> TOM REED
>
> In a message dated 12/15/99 8:20:18 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> paisley@BATTELLE.ORG writes:
>
> <<
> I have changed employers from Battelle to FERCO (the licensee of the
> gasification process) and may now be reached at
>
> Future Energy Resources Corporation
> 3500 Parkway Lane
> Suite 440
> Norcross GA 30092
>
> or:
>
> 2720 Bristol Road
> Columbus OH 43221
> (614) 893-7312
> fax (614) 459-8579
>
> email address: markpaisley@columbus.rr.com
>
> Mark Paisley
> Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> >>
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> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>

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From LINVENT at aol.com Fri Dec 17 14:39:50 1999
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: More on types of wood.
Message-ID: <0.a51fb3b4.258becbe@aol.com>

Dear list members,
As someone has opened the funny channel,

What are the 4 types of wood which are heavier than water?
One of them was "terrified" when she hit the water off of Catalina in the
dark of night and died.

Tom Taylor
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From arcate at email.msn.com Fri Dec 17 14:42:19 1999
From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Hydrogen vs charcoal
In-Reply-To: <0.85e68a28.258ba065@cs.com>
Message-ID: <009e01bf48c8$08289680$0100007f@localhost>

 

Dear Tom Reed:I promoted charcoal (using Dr. Antal's process) for
co-firing with coal in PC power plants for more than 2 years.  See <A
href="http://www.techtp.com/cofire/">http://www.techtp.com/cofire/  I
recall you telling me high yield charcoal might be good for stoves. Now
it's a fuel of the future ?Torrefied Wood may be a more practical
biomass fuel than high yield charcoal. 

From tmiles at teleport.com Fri Dec 17 21:04:38 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Tom who???
In-Reply-To: <0.299a6b29.258ba06a@cs.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991217181428.01cb5230@mail.teleport.com>

Tom Reed,

This only becomes important when you start answering your own email. It's
happened!

Happy Holidays.

Tom Miles

At 09:19 AM 12/17/99 -0500, Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:
>Dear ...:
>
>There are too many TOMs in gasification/stoves, (Tom Miles, Tom Milne, Tom
>Taylor, apologies to those missed) so please use last names as well when
>refering to TOMs ...
>
>And, your humble servant,
>
>TOM REED BEF
>Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

-------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
T.R. Miles, Technical Consultants, Inc.
1470 SW Woodward Way
Portland, Oregon, USA Tel:(503) 646-1198/292-0107
http://www.teleport.com/~tmiles/ Fax:(503) 605-0208/292-2919
Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
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From tmiles at teleport.com Sat Dec 18 12:08:35 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal/ Pyromid says send me a bill.
In-Reply-To: <199912151757.MAA05536@solstice.crest.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991218091411.034a2450@mail.teleport.com>

Paul,

And Merry Christmas to you!

Thanks for your support

Regards,

Tom Miles

At 08:33 AM 12/18/99 -0800, Paul Hait wrote:
>Dear Tom,
>
>Merry Christmas!
>Please send me a bill for 2000 for a Charcoal sight.
>Paul Hait
>President
>Pyromid
>62029 Fall Creek Loop
>Bend, Oregon 97702
>541.318.6361
>www.pyromid.net
>phait@hwy97.net
>
>Our new plant location is in Eugene at Pacific Metal Fab.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Tom Miles <tmiles@teleport.com>
>To: <stoves@crest.org>; Michael Antal <antal@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu>
>Cc: <Reedtb2@cs.com>; <gasification@crest.org>; <bioenergy@crest.org>;
><danday@scientificcarbons.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:33 PM
>Subject: Re: charcoal
>
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Is this what you're thinking of?
> > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> >
> > If you, Scientific Carbons, Transnational Technologies, Dynamotive and
> > others will help sponsor the lists we'd be happy to build out a Renewable
> > Carbon site at CREST.
> >
> > Sponsorship is $300/year, or $25/mo with a minimum of 4 months.
> >
> > See http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml and send CREST a check.
> >
> > Happy Holidays
> >
> >
> > Tom Miles
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 08:57 AM 12/15/99 -1000, Michael Antal wrote:
> > >Dear Tom and stovers: I would be willing to make modest monetary
> > >contributions to a charcoal (renewable carbon) web site. Increasingly, I
> > >think that charcoal (not hydrogen) is the fuel of the future. Happy
> > >holidays! Michael Antal.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
> > Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
> > Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
> > 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208
> > Portland, Oregon, USA 97225
> >
> > Stoves Webpage
> > http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> > Stoves List Sponsors, Archive and Information
> > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> > http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> > For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> > http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208
Portland, Oregon, USA 97225

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From phait at hwy97.net Sat Dec 18 12:22:40 1999
From: phait at hwy97.net (Paul Hait)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: No Subject
In-Reply-To: <199912151757.MAA05536@solstice.crest.org>
Message-ID: <199912181722.MAA17770@solstice.crest.org>

<4.2.0.58.19991215110701.03303540@mail.teleport.com>
Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal/ Pyromid says send me a bill.
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:33:30 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211
Sender: owner-gasification@crest.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: gasification

Dear Tom,

Merry Christmas!
Please send me a bill for 2000 for a Charcoal sight.
Paul Hait
President
Pyromid
62029 Fall Creek Loop
Bend, Oregon 97702
541.318.6361
www.pyromid.net
phait@hwy97.net

Our new plant location is in Eugene at Pacific Metal Fab.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Miles <tmiles@teleport.com>
To: <stoves@crest.org>; Michael Antal <antal@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu>
Cc: <Reedtb2@cs.com>; <gasification@crest.org>; <bioenergy@crest.org>;
<danday@scientificcarbons.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: charcoal

> Mike,
>
> Is this what you're thinking of?
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>
> If you, Scientific Carbons, Transnational Technologies, Dynamotive and
> others will help sponsor the lists we'd be happy to build out a Renewable
> Carbon site at CREST.
>
> Sponsorship is $300/year, or $25/mo with a minimum of 4 months.
>
> See http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml and send CREST a check.
>
> Happy Holidays
>
>
> Tom Miles
>
>
>
>
> At 08:57 AM 12/15/99 -1000, Michael Antal wrote:
> >Dear Tom and stovers: I would be willing to make modest monetary
> >contributions to a charcoal (renewable carbon) web site. Increasingly, I
> >think that charcoal (not hydrogen) is the fuel of the future. Happy
> >holidays! Michael Antal.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
> Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
> 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208
> Portland, Oregon, USA 97225
>
> Stoves Webpage
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> Stoves List Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

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From tmiles at teleport.com Sat Dec 18 12:22:43 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: FWD:RE: GAS-L:Solid fuel cofiring vs Gasification
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991218093439.031abcc0@mail.teleport.com>

From: "Ron Bailey, Sr" <rbaileys@prmenergy.com>
Subject: RE: GAS-L:Solid fuel cofiring vs Gasification
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:15:56 -0600

Dear Jim Arcate:
Please, has anyone identified or described "Torrefied Wood"?
What would be the advantage of cofiring Torrefied Wood or Charcoal over
straight close coupled gasification of biomass?
Ron Bailey

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From arcate at email.msn.com Sat Dec 18 14:37:28 1999
From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L:Solid fuel cofiring vs Gasification
In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991218093439.031abcc0@mail.teleport.com>
Message-ID: <00a401bf4990$89c57280$0100007f@localhost>

Hello Ron & Gasification:

Ron Bailey asked:

>>>Please, has anyone identified or described "Torrefied Wood"?
It looks like the "French" did. Please see
http://www.techtp.com/torrefied%20wood.htm

>>>What would be the advantage of cofiring Torrefied Wood or Charcoal over
straight close coupled gasification of biomass?

From: http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/cofire_techdesc.html
The nearest term low-cost option for the use of biomass is in cofiring with
coal in existing boilers. Cofiring refers to the practice of introducing
biomass as a supplementary energy source in high efficiency boilers.

My TurboExpo98 paper includes a comparison of biomass gasification and
biomass charcoal in a Charcoal PFBC power plant, please see
http://www.techtp.com/cofire/Co-firing.htm

Jim Arcate

From: "Ron Bailey, Sr" <rbaileys@prmenergy.com>
Subject: RE: GAS-L:Solid fuel cofiring vs Gasification
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:15:56 -0600

Dear Jim Arcate:
Please, has anyone identified or described "Torrefied Wood"?
What would be the advantage of cofiring Torrefied Wood or Charcoal over
straight close coupled gasification of biomass?
Ron Bailey

Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information
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From w.dejong at wbmt.tudelft.nl Mon Dec 20 02:50:38 1999
From: w.dejong at wbmt.tudelft.nl (w.dejong@wbmt.tudelft.nl)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: combustion of biomass derived LC V gas thesis
Message-ID: <9912200856.AA06290@dutw444.wbmt.tudelft.nl>

Dear Tom Reed and gasification discussion group members,

Recently, a PhD thesis concerning pressurised combustion
of low caloric value gas from pressurised fluidised bed
gasification of biomass (miscanthus) with hot gas cleanup has been
published. The theme of the thesis is modeling and experimental
validation of the combustion of LCV gas with emphasis on
combustion efficiency and NOx emission.

The work has been performed in our laboratory for
thermal power engineering at Delft University of Technology.
The test rig involved is a 1.5 MWth (max) pressurised fluidised
bed gasifier with hot gas filtration unit and downscaled
AGT Typhoon gas turbine combustor.

We can send the PhD thesis to those of you who are
seriously interested. For further questions you can
contact me or the author Dr.Ir. P.D.J. Hoppesteyn
(peter.hoppesteyn@hoogovens.com).

greetings

Wiebren de Jong (PhD student)

 

Wiebren de Jong, MSc.
TU Delft
Faculty of Mechanical Engineering & Marine Technology
Mekelweg 2
NL-2628 CD Delft
The Netherlands
Telephone: +31 15 2786751
Telefax: +31 15 2782460
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From DAVID.DALTON at saic.com Mon Dec 20 18:49:42 1999
From: DAVID.DALTON at saic.com (Dalton, David)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator?
Message-ID: <199912202349.SAA01826@solstice.crest.org>

I am interested in learning about the tire gasfier in Utah. Can you provide
more details? Where is it located? Who owns/operates it? Who designed and
built it? etc.

Sincrely,
David Dalton

-----Original Message-----
From: Reedtb2@cs.com [mailto:Reedtb2@cs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 9:38 AM
To: gasification@crest.org
Subject: Re: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator?

Dear Peter and all:

I visited a waste tire gasifier plant in Utah last week. They are sending
me
a few bushels of "tire crumb". I will test them in our turbo stove.

TOM REED

In a message dated 12/12/99 9:23:50 AM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net
writes:

<< Waste tires is the single greatest "resource" that we are ignoring.
Designs
to utilize this waste have been far to complicated to date -- plus the
"Greens" are ready to attack any such attempt --

Peter
>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 22 08:54:25 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal
Message-ID: <0.5aa83b17.2592334e@cs.com>

Dear Tom MILES:

Never heard of Convertech, but it sure sounds terrified.

Fresh biomass is like

C10H14O6

which can be rewritten C10 . 6 H2O . H2. If you look at the charring process
on the Reed triangular (molecular) diagram, the removal of each water at
higher and higher temperature corresponds to a straight line joining the
above composition and CH.2, achieved at about 900C. Torrefied corresponds to
removal of about 2 waters, Sea Sweep to removal of 3, barbecue charcoal to 4,
metallurgical to 5, activated to 6 (approximately). Wish I had a graduate
student and a few $ to make this more quantitative, but that's my scheme.

Then we need to look at all of this again at 10 atmosphere pressure to see
where Mike Antal charcoal fits.

Happy H, C, M

TOM REED

In a message dated 12/16/99 7:18:05 PM Mountain Standard Time,
tmiles@teleport.com writes:

<< Where does Convertech fit in the spectrum of wood-to-charcoal?

If I remember correctly that's a process that does some drying and some
carbonization. The product I saw and smelled years ago was decidedly brown:
if it wasn't torrified it was al least frightened. (That's a term my
English aunt used to describe searing meat: you didn't sear it you
frightened it.)

Is Ian still online?

To >>
The Gasification List is sponsored by
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 22 08:54:40 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004
Subject: GAS-L: combustion of biomass derived LC V gas thesis
Message-ID: <0.37d0eadf.2592335b@cs.com>

Dear Wiebren:

I would very much appreciate receiving a copy of Dr.Ir. P.D.J. Hoppesteyn's
thesis. Having operated a 1 ton/d high pressure oxygen gasifier in the early
1980s, I know how difficult pressure feeding is. Do you have any plans to
operate on oxygen? (It isn't that much harder.)

Please mail to

T. Reed, 1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401 USA

Thanks in advance....

TOM REED

In a message dated 12/20/99 12:58:48 AM Mountain Standard Time,
w.dejong@wbmt.tudelft.nl writes:

<<
Dear Tom Reed and gasification discussion group members,

Recently, a PhD thesis concerning pressurised combustion
of low caloric value gas from pressurised fluidised bed
gasification of biomass (miscanthus) with hot gas cleanup has been
published. The theme of the thesis is modeling and experimental
validation of the combustion of LCV gas with emphasis on
combustion efficiency and NOx emission.

The work has been performed in our laboratory for
thermal power engineering at Delft University of Technology.
The test rig involved is a 1.5 MWth (max) pressurised fluidised
bed gasifier with hot gas filtration unit and downscaled
AGT Typhoon gas turbine combustor.

We can send the PhD thesis to those of you who are
seriously interested. For further questions you can
contact me or the author Dr.Ir. P.D.J. Hoppesteyn
(peter.hoppesteyn@hoogovens.com).


greetings


Wiebren de Jong (PhD student)



Wiebren de Jong, MSc.
TU Delft
Faculty of Mechanical Engineering & Marine Technology
Mekelweg 2
NL-2628 CD Delft
The Netherlands >>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 22 08:54:47 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Introducing Ali Kaupp
Message-ID: <0.3858cc1a.25923362@cs.com>

Dear Tony, et al:

Let me introduce my old friend, Ali Kaupp. Ali wrote two of the books on our
BEF book list for his PhD with John Goss at U. Calif Davis, about 1983, to
whit

SMALL SCALE GAS PRODUCER-ENGINE SYSTEMS: A. Kaupp and J. Goss. (Veiweg,1984)
Updates GENGAS and contains critical engineering data indispensable for the
serious gasifier projects. Ali Kaupp is thorough and knowledgeable. ISBN
1-890607-06-1 278 pp $30 __________

GASIFICATION OF RICE HULLS: THEORY AND PRAXIS: A. Kaupp. (Veiweg, 1984)
Applies gasification to rice hulls, since rice hulls are potentially a major
energy source - yet have unique problems in gasification. ISBN
1-890607-07-X 303 pp $30_________

In a message dated 12/19/99 10:07:34 PM Mountain Standard Time,
eta-pet@eta-team.com writes:

They are terrific books and I have recently re-read the first and gotten a
lot of good information for our 25 kW gasifier project.

Ali has been working around the world with GTZ since then, mosly in biomass
projects. He is now relocating to COLORADO and we hope to have lots more
interaction with him.

So, you know that in the attached letter he is not speaking off the top of
his head.

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF

<<
Dear Tony,

I group like this draws and lives from a diversity of opinions. It would be
really bad for mankind if only doomsday specialists and consultant driven
ideas
prevail. There is room for all of us occupying the same "environmental
space".
Whenever I attend specialist forums on whatever, solar, or biomass, or
gasification, or wind, I regret that there is not a "Harry Parker Factor"
around. It would make discussions much more lively. In the absence of such
factors, all what we see is experts padding each other shoulders reassuring
themselves how great they and their ideas are. It often reminds me of a firm
called "ThisWorld Ltd" calling all departments at the end of the year,
asking for
proposals how to split the next years budget to ensure the survival of the
firm.
The question is what indicators and bench marks should management take in its
decision making process: Allocation efficiency, IRR, NPV, performance of
past
implemented proposals, or even the indicator "whoever makes the most noise
gets
the most attention". The latter indicator is how mother nature ensures the
survival of many species.
Therefore you are as well welcome to make as much noise as possible to get
your
ideas through. However don't assume that your ideas and visions would pass
any
rigorous assessment of what is good or bad for "ThisWorld Ltd" for the short
term
planning of the next 20-30 years. I would only agree that the "Tony Novelli
Factor" is also appreciated. But it cannot claim any higher moral ground
than the
"Harry Parker Factor".
The forests of Europe were almost depleted in the 15th century and everybody
thought this is the end. We pulled through this crisis alright, as we pulled
through so many others before and after. The only theory that has been
proving
right since mankind has existed is parts of the chaos theory: "A present
scenario
has to spin out of control before serious efforts are undertaken by mankind
to
stabilize it and go back to a manageable equilibrium. Either we do it, or
mother
nature will do it for us in a more drastic way.
In other words, my present problem is not that we run out of oil or coal and
this all has to be replaced by some other alternative sources in either
10,20,30,
50, or 100 years depending on to whom you listen. Who really cares about the
date! We , or better SHELL, ENRON, BP and all the others will be ready when
it
comes, with all the technologies and money necesseary to pull through.
In a recent meeting about CDM and global warming a very enlightening paper
from a
Mr. Sterling was discussed. This fellow has looked into most calculations and
publications from 1985 until 1995 concerning the external costs of coal
fired
power plants. He came to the conclusion that results varied from 0.1c/kWh to
1000
c/kWh ( a factor of 10,000!!) and there is actually no trend or asymptotic
behavior of the results (complete information chaos). One may ask the
question
why hundreds of researchers get paid for this kind of pseudo-scientific
quackery
for the last 20 years and to what extend one could come up with rational
policy
guidelines (carbon tax,etc) penalizing firing of coal based on this total
data
chaos.
A.Kaupp

ANovelli@aol.com wrote:
>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 22 08:55:27 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Hydrogen vs charcoal
Message-ID: <0.40de2719.25923389@cs.com>

Dear Thomas et al:

I fully agree that Wood/Biomass is a better future fuel than charcoal - when
we learn to pyrolyse/gasify/combust with good control.

I misspoke if it sounded like I was recommending charcoal.

Of course the liquid fuel of the future is METHANOL, easily made from most
other lesser fuels. And it's sibling, dimethyl ether which has properties
almost identical with propane. But first we have to flush the ethanol/ADM
people out of the system.

Yours truly,

TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 12/17/99 8:49:42 AM Mountain Standard Time,
heat-win@cwcom.net writes:

<<
Dear All,

While I agree with what Tom (Reed) says about hydrogen, I don't entirely
agree
with "charcoal being the real fuel of the real future.".

In my amateur opinion wood is the real fuel of the future, either simply
chipped,
dried and consumed in power stations or commercial scale heating boilers or
dried
as pieces and burnt in efficient solid fuel appliances. Dried chip are also
being pelletized to lower transport costs and enable the uniform product to
be
delivered by road tanker and blown into consumers storage hoppers.

As an alternative, wood can be dried and torrefied, i.e. heated to around
270 C.
It then loses around 10% of its dry weight's energy but becomes more
versatile in
its uses and cleaner burning than wood which has simply been dried.

Instead of torrefying it at around 270 C the process temperature can be
increased
further to convert the wood into charcoal, which further reduces the solid's
energy yield. This is fine as long as the pyrolysis gases are efficiently,
cleanly and usefully burnt, e.g. to dry additional wood.

Apart from bamboo which can be used instead in warm climates, wood is the
most
abundant of renewable energy sources in terms of dry weight production per
acre
per annum. Fossil fuels are not renewable and, in terms of human millennia,
are
fast disappearing. Oil especially is now being consumed at four times the
rate
at which new reserves are being discovered, see the concluding paragraph of
<http://www.hubbertpeak.com/campbell/commons.htm>, so unless we sustainably
use
the forests we've got left and plant far more trees now while developing full
utilization of the harvest, including producing liquid fuels from it by fast
pyrolysis, only the very rich will be able to stay warm and mobile through
the
next century.

Happy Millennium!

Thomas J Stubbing
>>
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From w.dejong at wbmt.tudelft.nl Wed Dec 22 09:34:24 1999
From: w.dejong at wbmt.tudelft.nl (w.dejong@wbmt.tudelft.nl)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: combustion of biomass derived LC V gas thesis
In-Reply-To: <0.37d0eadf.2592335b@cs.com>
Message-ID: <9912221540.AA12799@dutw444.wbmt.tudelft.nl>

From: Reedtb2@cs.com
Date sent: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:59:55 EST
Subject: Re: GAS-L: combustion of biomass derived LC V gas thesis
To: gasification@crest.org
Send reply to: gasification@crest.org

> Dear Wiebren:

Dear Tom Reed,

> I would very much appreciate receiving a copy of Dr.Ir. P.D.J. Hoppesteyn's
> thesis. Having operated a 1 ton/d high pressure oxygen gasifier in the early
> 1980s, I know how difficult pressure feeding is.

I can agree to that...

Do you have any plans to
> operate on oxygen? (It isn't that much harder.)

We don't have plans for oxygen operation in the
near future. We will continue operation performing pressurised
bubbling bed gasification
of several fuels (woody, herbaceous in combination with older
fuels) in combination with experimental hot gas filtration and
pressurised combustion studies. Central themes are modeling of the
fate of fuel_Nitrogen species and trace elements. Besides we will
start small scale circulating fluidised bed experiments and gas
turbine operation.

with kind regards wishing you a merry christmas and
a happy new year,

Wiebren de Jong.

 

Wiebren de Jong, MSc.
TU Delft
Faculty of Mechanical Engineering & Marine Technology
Mekelweg 2
NL-2628 CD Delft
The Netherlands
Telephone: +31 15 2786751
Telefax: +31 15 2782460
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From LINVENT at aol.com Wed Dec 22 11:52:12 1999
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal
Message-ID: <0.92bc7e99.25925cf9@aol.com>

Dear Tom Reed,
We will run our new reactor on straight charcoal and see what the gas
analysis is. We have a lot around here from the prior test runs.

Tom Taylor
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From onar at netpower.no Wed Dec 22 13:22:49 1999
From: onar at netpower.no (=?iso-8859-1?B?T25hciDFbQ==?=)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: SV: GAS-L: Re: Hydrogen vs charcoal
Message-ID: <007a01bf4ca9$3db32d80$c58321d4@oemcomputer>

> Apart from bamboo which can be used instead in warm climates, wood is the
>most
> abundant of renewable energy sources in terms of dry weight production per
>acre
> per annum. Fossil fuels are not renewable and, in terms of human millennia,
>are
> fast disappearing. Oil especially is now being consumed at four times the
>rate
> at which new reserves are being discovered, see the concluding paragraph of
> <http://www.hubbertpeak.com/campbell/commons.htm>, so unless we sustainably
>use
> the forests we've got left and plant far more trees now while developing full
> utilization of the harvest, including producing liquid fuels from it by fast
> pyrolysis, only the very rich will be able to stay warm and mobile through
>the
> next century.

Must hasten to add that unconventional oil such as tarsand is more than abundant and there is enough of this to keep us with oil for centuries. But the imminent peak of traditional oil is correct though. Biomass is a wonderful fuel, especially in developing countries, but also in the west. Today an average citizen in Europe/USA generates about 250 kg of wood waste every year (from building and construction). This means that there is a potential for 60,000 MW of electricity from wood gasification in the West alone. This corresponds to 12% of the coal plants that will be built around the world in the next 20 years. If you in addition include 25 kg of wood waste per capita in the developing world then this corresponds to another 30,000 MW. Today this wood costs societies a lot of money because they are defined as waste. If you make electricity from it instead the cost is much lower, and at the same time society becomes less dependent on fossil fuels.

Onar.

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From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Dec 22 14:12:02 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Bouncing Messages
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991222111217.03a14100@mail.teleport.com>

List Members,

Don't be alarmed if you have error messages bounce back at you when you
post to the bioenergy lists. At this time of year, during school holidays,
the email servers (computers) at many organizations get turned off during
maintenance outages. The CREST mailer tries to send messages for several
hours or days, then gives up. Just delete the error messages and wait for
the new milennium.

Some institutions (like U Twente, Utrecht, NTNU Trodheim) have changed
their email domains without enabling automatic transfer of old addresses.
Also, some institutions have simply turned off their mailers to avoid Y2K
nuisances. So network and email list administrators should get a
Y2K+end-of-the year bonus for handling the extra problems! :-)

Happy Holidays

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208
Portland, Oregon, USA 97225

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From arcate at email.msn.com Wed Dec 22 14:44:07 1999
From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Hydrogen vs charcoal
In-Reply-To: <0.40de2719.25923389@cs.com>
Message-ID: <003f01bf4cb6$1a4bd740$0100007f@localhost>

 

Dear Gasification et al:Maybe we can take a vote on the "best
fuel" of the future ?  My vote for at least the next 20 years.

1.  For countries such as the USA, the EU, etc.

heating your house = solar + natural gas or electric;heating hot water
= solar + natural gas or electric;transportation = petroleum
fuels;electric power production = coalI think biomass can be used as
a replacement for coal primarily via use of low cost wood and agricultural
wastes.  Co-firing of biomass with coal in power plant boilers and
commercial heating plants is the largest and most economical biopower
application.  Biomass can be co-fired as wood chips, fuel pellets, or if
appropriate converted to Torrefied Wood or charcoal for co-firing.

2. For developing countries ?  The answers may be the same re "best"
but the facts of life are of course different. 

For example, from The Regional Wood Energy Development Programme in Asia <A
href="http://www.rwedp.org/">http://www.rwedp.org/Wood energy (fuelwood
and charcoal) is, and will remain, an important source of energy in South and
Southeast Asia. In most countries between 20% and 80% of energy demand is met by
wood. The share of wood energy is declining because the consumption of
conventional fuels, like oil products and electricity, is increasing at a higher
rate, and not because the consumption of wood energy is decreasing. This
situation applies to all member countries of RWEDP. 

Will they use wood in a renewable sustainable manner ? or switch to
conventional fuels like "we" did ? 

Merry Christmas

Jim Arcate----- Original Message -----From: <<A
href="mailto:Reedtb2@cs.com">Reedtb2@cs.com>To: <<A
href="mailto:heat-win@cwcom.net">heat-win@cwcom.net>; <<A
href="mailto:bioenergy@crest.org">bioenergy@crest.org>; <<A
href="mailto:stoves@crest.org">stoves@crest.org>;<<A
href="mailto:gasification@crest.org">gasification@crest.org>Sent:
Wednesday, December 22, 1999 4:00 AMSubject: Re: Hydrogen vs.
charcoalDear Thomas et al:I fully agree that Wood/Biomass is
a better future fuel than charcoal - whenwe learn to pyrolyse/gasify/combust
with good control.I misspoke if it sounded like I was recommending
charcoal.Of course the liquid fuel of the future is METHANOL, easily
made from mostother lesser fuels.  And it's sibling, dimethyl ether
which has propertiesalmost identical with propane.  But first we have
to flush the ethanol/ADMpeople out of the system.Yours
truly,TOM
REED           
BEF

From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Dec 22 16:05:27 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: combustion of biomass derived LC V gas thesis
In-Reply-To: <0.37d0eadf.2592335b@cs.com>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991222131511.0347f100@mail.teleport.com>

I've posted the summary of the Hoppesteyn thesis "Combustion of Biomass
Derived LCV Gas" to

http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/LCVgas.htm

and linked it to to the Gasification References Page

http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml

Regards,

Tom Miles
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208
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From Fernando_Castro at oxy.com Wed Dec 22 16:10:54 1999
From: Fernando_Castro at oxy.com (Fernando_Castro@oxy.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <51434D3C4F59D311801200508B2C4A6B050309@NFEEXC01>

Dear Sr:
I have natural gas composition like this:
METHANE CH4 : 52.118
ETHANE C2H6 : 8.654
PROPANE C3H8 : 9.781
ISOBUTANE ISOC4H10 : 2.219
NORBUTANE NORC4H10 : 2.516
ISOPENTANE ISOC5H12 : 0.722
NORPENTANE NORC5H12 : 0.329
HEXANE C6H14 : 0.114
CARBON DIOXIDE CO2 : 19.294
NITROGEN N2 : 4.253

CATERPILLAR METHANE NUMBER: 53 STOICH A/F RATIO (V/V):
10.66
LOWER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1032 STOICH A/F RATIO (M/M):
10.80
HIGHER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1145 SPECIFIC GRAVITY (REL TO
AIR): 0.986
REAL WOBBE INDEX (BTU/FT3): 1039

PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I CAN RUN the DIESEL ENGINES WITH THIS GAS. AND HOW
MUCH DIESEL SAVING CAN WE GET WITH THIS, this engines have 13.5 compression
ratio. can we have detonation? , how the combustion takes place of gas
diesel mixture inside combustion chamber?.
AND DO WE NEED AN SPECIAL KIND OF OIL IN CRANKCASE WHEN RUN WITH THE BI FUEL
SYSTEM?.
please let me know if i have to change timing of injectors (what degrees
before TDC)
I will apreciate very much your help in this.

Fernando Castro

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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 25 09:02:16 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet
Message-ID: <0.88bec306.259629aa@cs.com>

Dear Fernando:

I am not the most expert on this, but your first step should be to
investigate converting from diesel to SPARK ignition. Second step might be
to lower the compression ratio (extra gasket?). Third do you have much
hydrogen sulfide, H2S in the gas? If you can do these things, it is worth
considering.

What do you mean you "have" this gas?

Yours.... TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 12/22/99 2:23:05 PM Mountain Standard Time,
Fernando_Castro@oxy.com writes:

<<
Dear Sr:
I have natural gas composition like this:
METHANE CH4 : 52.118
ETHANE C2H6 : 8.654
PROPANE C3H8 : 9.781
ISOBUTANE ISOC4H10 : 2.219
NORBUTANE NORC4H10 : 2.516
ISOPENTANE ISOC5H12 : 0.722
NORPENTANE NORC5H12 : 0.329
HEXANE C6H14 : 0.114
CARBON DIOXIDE CO2 : 19.294
NITROGEN N2 : 4.253

CATERPILLAR METHANE NUMBER: 53 STOICH A/F RATIO (V/V):
10.66
LOWER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1032 STOICH A/F RATIO (M/M):
10.80
HIGHER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1145 SPECIFIC GRAVITY (REL TO
AIR): 0.986
REAL WOBBE INDEX (BTU/FT3): 1039

PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I CAN RUN the DIESEL ENGINES WITH THIS GAS. AND HOW
MUCH DIESEL SAVING CAN WE GET WITH THIS, this engines have 13.5 compression
ratio. can we have detonation? , how the combustion takes place of gas
diesel mixture inside combustion chamber?.
AND DO WE NEED AN SPECIAL KIND OF OIL IN CRANKCASE WHEN RUN WITH THE BI FUEL
SYSTEM?.
please let me know if i have to change timing of injectors (what degrees
before TDC)
I will apreciate very much your help in this.

Fernando Castro
>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 25 09:02:34 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Best 21st Century FUEL vote
Message-ID: <0.52d8e606.259629b5@cs.com>

Dear List:

Jim Arcate suggest a vote on best fuel for the future. If we want to have a
serious vote, we need first to define what we mean by "FUEL". Since I am a
FUEL CHEMIST, I am sensitive to this question and it is a good one.

My Webster Dictionary says "a combustible material used as a source of heat
or energy. ... The principal solid fuels are formed from decayed vegetable
matter and consist mainly of carbon and hydrogen. They include anthracite
coal.... The principal liquid fuels - diesel oil, gasoline and kerosene -
are obtained from petroeum. A gaseous fuel, natural gas is obtained usually
from subterranean wells and others (coal gas, water gas and producer gas) are
manuractured from coal."

No mention of wood or biomass, but of course that is a parochial viewpoint.
Coal didn't come into wide use until the 19th century, oil until the 20th,
natural gas until the 20 1/2th Century. For the preceding 100 centuries of
Civilization, it was primarily WOOD.
~~~~~~~~~~~
"FUEL" often implies a processed commodity material. A barrel of oil is NOT
a fuel. We have to refine it first. Natural gas at the wellhead is barely a
fuel, since it was formerly flared. Natural gas piped to my basement is a
TERRIFIC fuel. (It is also a very useful chemical and can be made into other
fuels such as gasoline or methanol.) But it requires a $1M/mile pipeline to
make it useful.

Gasoline and diesel are great fuels.
Propane/butane are great fuels.
Coal is only a fuel for heat (or power from steam).

Wood is barely a fuel, depending - hard to burn if wet and we often have to
cut it and prepare it first. It is 2/3 air by volume, so expensive to store
and ship.

Ag-residues are not fuels - unless you are willing to prepare them for very
specific devices taylored to their combustion.

Densified Wood (with the air squeezed out and sized to pellets or logs) are
a good fuel, easy to ship and use for heat and power, but requiring 100 hp
hour/ton. Pellets are becoming commonly available in the U.S. due to the use
of pellet stoves.

Wood-gas is a fuel, made in a gasifier to run an engine or produce heat for
industrial purposes.

Syn-Gas is a mixture of CO and H2 and can be made from natural gas, coal or
biomass. It is not a fuel in it's own right (although similar to water gas
or city gas in the old days), but if can be converted to gasoline, diesel,
methanol or methane by well known processes. (Not backyard processes
however.)
~~~~~
So, generally by "FUEL" we mean some energy source that has been taylored to
an end use.

Often we mean LIQUID FUEL when we say FUEL, and that is what we are most
worried about as this petroleum age approaches its eventual end. We are
looking for a cheap replacement for our beloved gasoline.

My favorite alternate liquid fuels are

METHANOL which burns clean, is very high octane and can be made from any
form of waste biomass (or from coal or natural gas). It currently costs
about $.50/gal in bulk.

DI-METHYL ETHER - (Even better than methanol, liquid in the storage and
distribution, a gas when you burn it. It has the same properties as propane,
and is easily made instead of methanol from syn-gas.)

For me, ETHANOL is a distant third fuel choice, currently consuming a food
(corn in its manufacture and producing lots of dirty water. It was
originally subsidized to be an aid to farmers, but has become a major subsidy
for ADM instead. (A National Disgrace which Senator McCain has opposed.)
The dream of converting cellulose to sugars is still not commercialized
after a century of major subsidies.
~~~~~
I became a fuel chemist because I like driving my car and am not sure of
future gasoline supplies.

So here's a cup of ETHANOL to a smooth transition to whatever renewable fuel
we decide on for the 21st Century.

Yours truly, TOM REED THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION

In a message dated 12/22/99 12:54:20 PM Mountain Standard Time,
arcate@email.msn.com writes:

<<
Dear Gasification et al:

Maybe we can take a vote on the "best fuel" of the future ? My vote for at
least the next 20 years.

next 20 years.

1. For countries such as the USA, the EU, etc.

heating your house = solar + natural gas or electric;
heating hot water = solar + natural gas or electric;
transportation = petroleum fuels;
electric power production = coal

I think biomass can be used as a replacement for coal primarily via use of
low cost wood and agricultural wastes. Co-firing of biomass with coal in
power plant boilers and commercial heating plants is the largest and most
economical biopower application. Biomass can be co-fired as wood chips, fuel
pellets, or if appropriate converted to Torrefied Wood or charcoal for
co-firing.

2. For developing countries ? The answers may be the same re "best" but the
facts of life are of course different.

For example, from The Regional Wood Energy Development Programme in Asia
http://www.rwedp.org/
Wood energy (fuelwood and charcoal) is, and will remain, an important source
of energy in South and Southeast Asia. In most countries between 20% and 80%
of energy demand is met by wood. The share of wood energy is declining
because the consumption of conventional fuels, like oil products and
electricity, is increasing at a higher rate, and not because the consumption
of wood energy is decreasing. This situation applies to all member countries
of RWEDP.

Will they use wood in a renewable sustainable manner ? or switch to
conventional fuels like "we" did ?

Merry Christmas

Jim Arcate
>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 25 09:02:46 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Biomass (wood chips) Emissions and Air Quality
Message-ID: <0.cc040786.259629bf@cs.com>

Dear Sten:

Glad to find you as my ultimate ESP expert. Here are a few questions and
comments of interest:

1) Gasification of biomass produces a gas much easier to clean than the
combustion products, since the volume is 1/4 as much and the temperature 1/2
to 1/4 as much, depending on the process. So

a) gasify
b) clean
c) combust

2) It is my understanding that Cristobolite is the real killer in fly ash
when it gets to your lungs - not alpha or beta quartz, which I believe are
more soluble and so eventually pass out. Is this true?

Thanks for your help,

TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 12/21/99 12:41:23 AM Mountain Standard Time,
tmiles@teleport.com writes:

<< Dear Dwayne S. Berger

It is a pleasure to give some comments to your request for information on
the emissions of particles from combustion of wood chips.

My background.
I am an electrostatic precipitator expert, in fact an International
Fellow of Electrostatic Precipitation according to a framed diploma in
front of me dated November 15, 1984.
- I worked about 35 years with the former Flakt company now part of ABB
- A few years ago, I wrote on contract from the Swedish Waterpower
Board , a report on the distribution of trace metals in ashes from the
combustion of wood fuels.
- I am presently president of the Swedish Clean Air Society which
means that I follow closely the research in Europe on particle emissions
from the combustion of biofuels. In Sweden this emission is considered as a
threat to the health of citizens comparable to that from particles formed
by the combustion of gasoline and diesel fuel.

I treat the questions in the order they appear in your message. All values
are metric. 1 grain/ S CF equals about 2.28 grams/ normal cum.

1. The emission of particles for various fuels approximately
follow their ash content. Approx. concentrations for different fuels in
grams per normal cum would be for gas almost zero; oil 0.1; wood chips 2
and coal 10-15.
Note the difference in size of the PE between fuels. Whereas
those from coal combustion may have a mean grain size of 10 to 15 micron
and those from oil combustion will vary a lot with the burner equipment,
recent research in Europé indicates that particles from the combustion of
wood chips is mainly PM2.5 which means that 50 percent of the particle mass
is smaller than 2.5 micron. Research in Denmark shows that particles from
firing straw is mainly submicron. The smaller the particle the higher the
risk that it will reach the lungs of humans.

2. The higher the temperature in the combustion zone the finer the
particle. Thus it could be expected that those from a fludized bed would
not be as fine as those from grate firing.

3. The ESP is the preferred equipment for particulate control in
Sweden. It is
used down to boiler sizes of about 3 MW fuel input. For boilers in the
range from about 0.5 to 3 MW mechnical collectors are used. In both cases
the collector is usually followed by a condensing unit in order to increase
the output of heat from the plant. It usually connected to a distric
heating network.
An ESP is usually designed for an emission of 30 mg/normal cum and
will together with the condensing unit give much less. A mechnical
collector and a following condensing unit will give an emission of 70-150
mg/normal cum.

4. Swedish research is presently concentrated on measures to decrease
emissions of all types from the about 440.000 small boilers that are
installed in one family houses around the country. It is quite a task to
promote the use of wood fuels on one hand and on the other ask people to
spend a lot of money on their old woodfired boiler in order to decrease
emissions of tars and obnoxious gases. But so called accumulators must be
installed eventually if emissions from these old type boilers shall
decrease.

5. The use of pellets, hopefully manufactured from low ash content
wood and not from s.c. recycled wood which should be looked upon as refuse,
is
promoted also for the very small boilers. ESPs appear to be too costly for
boilers in the 0.5 to 2-3 MW range. The cost of a fabric filter is less
size dependent but its merits would have to be proven at plants in Sweden.
In Denmark and on the continent it is apparently used with satifactory
results.


As a general comment I suggest that natural gas should be the preferred
fuel for small plants and biofuel for larger units. The latter can afford
effective control of particulate emissions and the combustion will be
better than in small units .

I hope this has been of some help.

Sten Maartmann
Stenmaar@algonet.se
Blåhammarv.15
S-132 42 Saltsjö-Boo
Tel & fax +46 87 15 22 80 >>
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From vvnk at teri.res.in Sat Dec 25 10:50:54 1999
From: vvnk at teri.res.in (V V N Kishore)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: TERI Silver Jubilee celebrations
Message-ID: <s864c757.042@dakghar.teri.res.in>

On this occasion as we enter the new millennium, may I convey to you warm greetings and best wishes for the holiday season.

For TERI the new millennium brings added significance because the Institute would be celebrating its silver jubilee during February 18-21, 2000. Seven different conferences are being held on the occasion with a distinguished galaxy of individuals as speakers including Nobel laureates, former Prime Ministers, CEOs of major multinational corporations, media personalities, and eminent academics and researchers. This would be a unique effort to focus on and address issues of relevance to sustainable development in the 21st century, including local, regional and international dimensions. This series of conferences would help in developing a common global agenda for the 21st century that embodies the economic and social interests of people around the world, while at the same time ensuring the sustainability of natural resources and protection of the environment. The conferences will be opened by the Hon'ble President of India, Mr K R Narayanan.

Further details are available on the web at www.teriin.org/25years/ or by e-mail addressed to program@teri.res.in

Yours sincerely,
V V N Kishore

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From LINVENT at aol.com Sun Dec 26 11:24:58 1999
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Biomass (wood chips) Emissions and Air Quality
Message-ID: <0.ef1ca7e0.25979c9c@aol.com>

Dear Sten,
It appears as though most of your comments are relating to biomass
combustion and not gasification. There is a substantial difference. As an
example, ESP's will work in gasification of biomass in the .5-10MW range very
well where fabric will not. Retrofitting the hundreds of thousands of small
biomass combustors/boilers is
The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
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From LINVENT at aol.com Sun Dec 26 11:28:34 1999
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Biomass (wood chips) Emissions and Air Quality
Message-ID: <0.5cc55c38.25979d75@aol.com>

Dear Sten,
It appears as though most of your comments are relating to biomass
combustion and not gasification use of ESP's. There is a substantial
difference. As an example, ESP's will work in gasification of biomass in the
.5-10MW range very well where fabric will not. Retrofitting the hundreds of
thousands of small biomass combustors/boilers is feasible with ESP's based
upon large scale manufacturing to produce an extraordinarily clean gas.
Certain geometries of charging systems need to be used. The same with
woodburning fireplaces and stoves in this country.

Sincerely,

Leland T. Taylor
P.S.- A prior unfinished version of this may have been sent inadvertently. TT
The Gasification List is sponsored by
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From p.m.davies at bigpond.com.au Sun Dec 26 18:07:59 1999
From: p.m.davies at bigpond.com.au (Peter M Davies)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Fuel vote
In-Reply-To: <002a01bf47f5$f6d86680$0100007f@localhost>
Message-ID: <23095149908917@domain8.bigpond.com>

Dear list,

The topic raised by Jim Arcate and the response attached from Tom
Reed is of particular importance.

My interest is BIOMASS as fuels, whether they be processed as
solids, liquids or gases; for electricity, heat or transport purposes.

If we are talking definitions we have also to talk about categories,
scale of operation and end purpose, different fuels will perform
differently (or not at all) with particular applications.

So bearing this in mind and from my own bias as an agroforester
my vote is as follows:

1. Bulk solid fuels (wood or agri residue based) for electricity
generation or process heat through boilers, gasifiers etc =
Torrefied wood chips, docks or chopped plant material (bagasse,
straw etc) - Advantages (smokeless, low moisture, uniform firing
characteristics, high retained energy of original feedstock, optimum
transport economies, ease and maximum flexibility of feeding into
various combustion technologies)

2. Solid fuels for domestic and commercial stoves (can be wood or
agri residues) = Torrefied briquettes or pellets - (as for 1. above
plus uniform size, product security & customer recognition, ease of
packaging, transport damage resistance)

3. Transport - Tom Reeds choice of liquid fuels from biomass
digestion or syn gas re processing.

All the best for 2000

Peter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Reedtb2@cs.com <Reedtb2@cs.com>
> To: arcate@email.msn.com <arcate@email.msn.com>;
gasification@crest.org
> <gasification@crest.org>; stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>;
> bioenergy@crest.org <bioenergy@crest.org>; heat-
win@cwcom.net
> <heat-win@cwcom.net> Date: Sunday, 26 December 1999 1:14
Subject: GAS-L:
> Best 21st Century FUEL vote
>
>
> >Dear List:
> >
> >Jim Arcate suggest a vote on best fuel for the future. If we want
to
> >have
> a
> >serious vote, we need first to define what we mean by "FUEL".
Since I
> >am
> a
> >FUEL CHEMIST, I am sensitive to this question and it is a good
one.
> >
> >My Webster Dictionary says "a combustible material used as a
source of
> >heat or energy. ... The principal solid fuels are formed from
decayed
> vegetable
> >matter and consist mainly of carbon and hydrogen. They include
anthracite
> >coal.... The principal liquid fuels - diesel oil, gasoline and
kerosene
> >- are obtained from petroeum. A gaseous fuel, natural gas is
obtained
> usually
> >from subterranean wells and others (coal gas, water gas and
producer gas)
> are
> >manuractured from coal."
> >
> >No mention of wood or biomass, but of course that is a parochial
> >viewpoint. Coal didn't come into wide use until the 19th century,
oil
> >until the 20th, natural gas until the 20 1/2th Century. For the
> >preceding 100 centuries of Civilization, it was primarily WOOD.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~
> >"FUEL" often implies a processed commodity material. A barrel
of oil is
> NOT
> >a fuel. We have to refine it first. Natural gas at the wellhead is
> >barely
> a
> >fuel, since it was formerly flared. Natural gas piped to my
basement is
> >a TERRIFIC fuel. (It is also a very useful chemical and can be
made into
> other
> >fuels such as gasoline or methanol.) But it requires a $1M/mile
pipeline
> to
> >make it useful.
> >
> >Gasoline and diesel are great fuels.
> >Propane/butane are great fuels.
> >Coal is only a fuel for heat (or power from steam).
> >
> >Wood is barely a fuel, depending - hard to burn if wet and we
often have
> >to cut it and prepare it first. It is 2/3 air by volume, so expensive
to
> store
> >and ship.
> >
> >Ag-residues are not fuels - unless you are willing to prepare
them for
> >very specific devices taylored to their combustion.
> >
> >Densified Wood (with the air squeezed out and sized to pellets
or logs)
> are
> >a good fuel, easy to ship and use for heat and power, but
requiring 100
> >hp hour/ton. Pellets are becoming commonly available in the
U.S. due to
> >the
> use
> >of pellet stoves.
> >
> >Wood-gas is a fuel, made in a gasifier to run an engine or
produce heat
> >for industrial purposes.
> >
> >Syn-Gas is a mixture of CO and H2 and can be made from
natural gas, coal
> >or biomass. It is not a fuel in it's own right (although similar to
> >water gas or city gas in the old days), but if can be converted to
> >gasoline, diesel, methanol or methane by well known processes.
(Not
> >backyard processes however.)
> > ~~~~~
> >So, generally by "FUEL" we mean some energy source that has
been taylored
> to
> >an end use.
> >
> >Often we mean LIQUID FUEL when we say FUEL, and that is
what we are most
> >worried about as this petroleum age approaches its eventual end.
We are
> >looking for a cheap replacement for our beloved gasoline.
> >
> >My favorite alternate liquid fuels are
> >
> >METHANOL which burns clean, is very high octane and can be
made from any
> >form of waste biomass (or from coal or natural gas). It currently
costs
> >about $.50/gal in bulk.
> >
> >DI-METHYL ETHER - (Even better than methanol, liquid in the
storage and
> >distribution, a gas when you burn it. It has the same properties as
> propane,
> >and is easily made instead of methanol from syn-gas.)
> >
> >For me, ETHANOL is a distant third fuel choice, currently
consuming a
> >food (corn in its manufacture and producing lots of dirty water.
It was
> >originally subsidized to be an aid to farmers, but has become a
major
> subsidy
> >for ADM instead. (A National Disgrace which Senator McCain
has
> >opposed.) The dream of converting cellulose to sugars is still not
> >commercialized after a century of major subsidies.
> > ~~~~~
> >I became a fuel chemist because I like driving my car and am
not sure of
> >future gasoline supplies.
> >
> >So here's a cup of ETHANOL to a smooth transition to whatever
renewable
> fuel
> >we decide on for the 21st Century.
> >
> >Yours truly, TOM REED THE BIOMASS ENERGY
FOUNDATION
> >
> >In a message dated 12/22/99 12:54:20 PM Mountain Standard
Time,
> >arcate@email.msn.com writes:
> >
> ><<
> > Dear Gasification et al:
> >
> > Maybe we can take a vote on the "best fuel" of the future ? My
vote for
> at
> >least the next 20 years.
> >
> >next 20 years.
> >
> >1. For countries such as the USA, the EU, etc.
> >
> >heating your house = solar + natural gas or electric;
> >heating hot water = solar + natural gas or electric;
> >transportation = petroleum fuels;
> >electric power production = coal
> >
> >I think biomass can be used as a replacement for coal primarily
via use
> >of low cost wood and agricultural wastes. Co-firing of biomass
with coal
> >in power plant boilers and commercial heating plants is the
largest and
> >most economical biopower application. Biomass can be co-fired
as wood
> >chips,
> fuel
> >pellets, or if appropriate converted to Torrefied Wood or
charcoal for
> >co-firing.
> >
> >2. For developing countries ? The answers may be the same re
"best" but
> the
> >facts of life are of course different.
> >
> >For example, from The Regional Wood Energy Development
Programme in Asia
> >http://www.rwedp.org/ Wood energy (fuelwood and charcoal) is,
and will
> >remain, an important
> source
> >of energy in South and Southeast Asia. In most countries
between 20% and
> 80%
> >of energy demand is met by wood. The share of wood energy is
declining
> >because the consumption of conventional fuels, like oil products
and
> >electricity, is increasing at a higher rate, and not because the
> consumption
> >of wood energy is decreasing. This situation applies to all
member
> countries
> >of RWEDP.
> >
> >Will they use wood in a renewable sustainable manner ? or
switch to
> >conventional fuels like "we" did ?
> >
> >Merry Christmas
> >
> >Jim Arcate
> >>>
> >The Gasification List is sponsored by
> >USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> >and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
> >Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>

Peter M Davies
"Neikah"
Colinton NSW Australia 2626
Ph: 02 64 544 009
mobile:0142 833 466
Email: p.m.davies@bigpond.com.au
The Gasification List is sponsored by
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From antonio.hilst at merconet.com.br Sun Dec 26 19:49:30 1999
From: antonio.hilst at merconet.com.br (Antonio G. P. Hilst)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet
In-Reply-To: <0.88bec306.259629aa@cs.com>
Message-ID: <38654FEA.E4C89E1D@merconet.com.br>

Ferrnando,
I don't have the Gas Engineers Handbook (McGraw or John Wiley) at hand to check
but as far as I recall it has a full chapter on gas engines.
Antonio

Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:

> Dear Fernando:
>
> I am not the most expert on this, but your first step should be to
> investigate converting from diesel to SPARK ignition. Second step might be
> to lower the compression ratio (extra gasket?). Third do you have much
> hydrogen sulfide, H2S in the gas? If you can do these things, it is worth
> considering.
>
> What do you mean you "have" this gas?
>
> Yours.... TOM REED BEF
>
> In a message dated 12/22/99 2:23:05 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> Fernando_Castro@oxy.com writes:
>
> <<
> Dear Sr:
> I have natural gas composition like this:
> METHANE CH4 : 52.118
> ETHANE C2H6 : 8.654
> PROPANE C3H8 : 9.781
> ISOBUTANE ISOC4H10 : 2.219
> NORBUTANE NORC4H10 : 2.516
> ISOPENTANE ISOC5H12 : 0.722
> NORPENTANE NORC5H12 : 0.329
> HEXANE C6H14 : 0.114
> CARBON DIOXIDE CO2 : 19.294
> NITROGEN N2 : 4.253
>
> CATERPILLAR METHANE NUMBER: 53 STOICH A/F RATIO (V/V):
> 10.66
> LOWER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1032 STOICH A/F RATIO (M/M):
> 10.80
> HIGHER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1145 SPECIFIC GRAVITY (REL TO
> AIR): 0.986
> REAL WOBBE INDEX (BTU/FT3): 1039
>
> PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I CAN RUN the DIESEL ENGINES WITH THIS GAS. AND HOW
> MUCH DIESEL SAVING CAN WE GET WITH THIS, this engines have 13.5 compression
> ratio. can we have detonation? , how the combustion takes place of gas
> diesel mixture inside combustion chamber?.
> AND DO WE NEED AN SPECIAL KIND OF OIL IN CRANKCASE WHEN RUN WITH THE BI FUEL
> SYSTEM?.
> please let me know if i have to change timing of injectors (what degrees
> before TDC)
> I will apreciate very much your help in this.
>
> Fernando Castro
> >>
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
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http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From graeme at powerlink.co.nz Tue Dec 28 02:34:53 1999
From: graeme at powerlink.co.nz (Graeme Williams)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet
In-Reply-To: <199912270700.CAA16577@solstice.crest.org>
Message-ID: <000401bf5106$1fd57640$eb0e37d2@graeme>

Hello Fernando

>From the information you quote of the diesel engine specification, it should
be possible to dual fuel your engine without modification. Unfortunately
the replacement of diesel with natural gas is unlikely to go over about 37%
in a fixed load situation, and if you try to increase this amount, may
encounter pre-ignition of the gas on the compression stroke. Spontaneous
ignition of natural gas has been reported at 1300 degrees F with an octane
of 130 which makes it a good high compression fuel. Don't change the
injector timing it should be OK.

Because you are using diesel fuel, the engine oil should just be a good
Series 3 diesel oil which will control any acid formation coming from the
gas. The most important thing is to keep an eye on the PH level, and change
it at PH4.

If your project has any commercial significance, we have two companies in
New Zealand who travel the world converting diesel fleets to natural gas.
They specialise in buses and taxis, so let me know if their services are
required and I'll pass on your details.

Regards

Doug Williams.

> > In a message dated 12/22/99 2:23:05 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> > Fernando_Castro@oxy.com writes:
> >
> > <<
> > Dear Sr:
> > I have natural gas composition like this:
> > METHANE CH4 : 52.118
> > ETHANE C2H6 : 8.654
> > PROPANE C3H8 : 9.781
> > ISOBUTANE ISOC4H10 : 2.219
> > NORBUTANE NORC4H10 : 2.516
> > ISOPENTANE ISOC5H12 : 0.722
> > NORPENTANE NORC5H12 : 0.329
> > HEXANE C6H14 : 0.114
> > CARBON DIOXIDE CO2 : 19.294
> > NITROGEN N2 : 4.253
> >
> > CATERPILLAR METHANE NUMBER: 53 STOICH A/F RATIO
(V/V):
> > 10.66
> > LOWER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1032 STOICH A/F RATIO
(M/M):
> > 10.80
> > HIGHER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1145 SPECIFIC GRAVITY
(REL TO
> > AIR): 0.986
> > REAL WOBBE INDEX (BTU/FT3): 1039
> >
> > PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I CAN RUN the DIESEL ENGINES WITH THIS GAS.
AND HOW
> > MUCH DIESEL SAVING CAN WE GET WITH THIS, this engines have 13.5
compression
> > ratio. can we have detonation? , how the combustion takes place of gas
> > diesel mixture inside combustion chamber?.
> > AND DO WE NEED AN SPECIAL KIND OF OIL IN CRANKCASE WHEN RUN WITH THE BI
FUEL
> > SYSTEM?.
> > please let me know if i have to change timing of injectors (what
degrees
> > before TDC)
> > I will apreciate very much your help in this.
> >
> > Fernando Castro
>

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From MRETOH at aol.com Tue Dec 28 20:07:44 1999
From: MRETOH at aol.com (MRETOH@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Mine Gas
Message-ID: <0.62aa0f14.259a8a02@aol.com>

Gentlemen,
We have a stream of mine gas which we believe is
commercially exploitable because of the coincidental location of heavy
industry in our area.
The analysis of this gas indicates a v/v presence of
CO2 of some 40%. Does anyone have experience in capturing such a stream for
commercial exploitation.

W.M. Flanagan
MrEtoH@aol.com

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and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
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http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Dec 29 12:06:31 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: No Attachments to CREST Email Please
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991229091917.03121f00@mail.teleport.com>

List Members,

As browsers and email software have improved we receive more graphic posting to the list. We have a (40,000 character) limit on the size of messages that can be posted to CREST lists (bioenergy, stoves, gasification, digestion, bioconversion). This enables people with low bandwidth systems to send and receive email easily. It also prevents most unsolicited email (SPAM) and large attachments from reaching the lists (it all comes to me). This policy has kept the lists manageable.

Please respect the limitations and do not post attachments to the list. Instead, refer in your messages to attachments, graphics or documents posted on your web site, or, if you prefer, send the attachments to me and I will post them on the Bioenergy web pages.

Thanks and Happy New Year

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208
Portland, Oregon, USA 97225

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
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http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From rmiller at fcschaffer.com Wed Dec 29 18:08:09 1999
From: rmiller at fcschaffer.com (FCSchaffer/Robert Miller by way of Tom Miles <tmiles@teleport.com>)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal Production Information
Message-ID: <199912292308.SAA07662@solstice.crest.org>

Do you have any data on equipment or process to produce charcoal from sugar cane residue, bagasse, which would be an appropriate technology to install in conjunction with an existing sugar factory? My firm is presently managing a sugar factory in Kenya and we have an interest to utilize excess bagasse to make charcoal for use in the local economy. This not only reduces our disposal cost but is a benefit in reducing deforestation in the area adjacent to the mill.

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Dec 29 18:18:17 1999
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal Production Information
In-Reply-To: <199912292308.SAA07662@solstice.crest.org>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991229152746.0325caa0@mail.teleport.com>

Robert,

We've just started a Renewable Carbon web page at CREST to other this kind of information. Look at the advanced processes section on the page http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

and the other CREST links listed below.

What size is the sugar factory in Tonnes of Cane per Day?

Regards,

Tom Miles

 

At 06:08 PM 12/29/99 -0500, FCSchaffer/Robert Miller wrote:
>Do you have any data on equipment or process to produce charcoal from sugar cane residue, bagasse, which would be an appropriate technology to install in conjunction with an existing sugar factory? My firm is presently managing a sugar factory in Kenya and we have an interest to utilize excess bagasse to make charcoal for use in the local economy. This not only reduces our disposal cost but is a benefit in reducing deforestation in the area adjacent to the mill.
>
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208
Portland, Oregon, USA 97225

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
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http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From graeme at powerlink.co.nz Thu Dec 30 01:35:57 1999
From: graeme at powerlink.co.nz (Graeme Williams)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Fuel vote
In-Reply-To: <199912270700.CAA16577@solstice.crest.org>
Message-ID: <003b01bf5290$383922a0$e20e37d2@graeme>

Dear Gasification Colleagues

As Tom R has pointed out, we have quite a few different fuel options
available to us in the years ahead. No doubt market forces and convenience
will determine which will be the major transitional fuel, for sure others
will evolve given enough time, and preferably someone else's money to
develop.

Gasification will remain the focus of my attention as in my opinion, there
is plenty of important work still to be done to realise the potential of
this technology.

To put reason into the 24 years I have spent "playing" with gasification, I
have a photo taken in Papua New Guinea which I drag out occasionally. I
have given it a title "Another Day in Paradise" and I have put it in the
Fluidyne archive for you to access.

http://members.xoom.com/whitools/

I would like to take this opportunity to wish you all an interesting and
prosperous New Year.

Doug Williams
Fluidyne Gasification.

The Gasification List is sponsored by
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Dec 31 09:50:31 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Reducing Global Warming Guilt
Message-ID: <0.5ae349fa.259e1df7@cs.com>

Dear CRESTERS:

We hear so much about global warming that we feel guilty without being able
to do much. Maybe the enclosed article will help.

I am also attaching the article as an MS Word document.

Yours for an even better century.

Dr. Thomas B. Reed The Biomass Energy Foundation

~~~~~~~~

REDUCING GLOBAL WARMING GUILT
Thomas B. Reed
Golden, CO

Advanced climate thinkers have warned us that Humans may be heating up
Earth's climate by increasing the carbon dioxide content of our atmosphere
while we use up the remaining supplies of petroleum and other fossil fuels.
The world is called upon to reduce CO2 emissions so as not to change our
climate. The advanced thinkers warn that continuing on this path could lead
to melting of the ice caps, a rise in the sea level and a major climate
change. I feel guilty when I drive to the library to read about Global
Warming.

Unfortunately for the climate experts, major climate change is Earth's norm
They find it difficult to separate Human climate change (Anthropogenic) from
those that occur naturally. We had a mini ice age in 1700 and no one is
blaming the Pilgrims.

Let us think what "climate" we would like to preserve. We are urged to
prevent global warming in order to preserve our present climate. Our
Civilization has developed in the 13,000 years since the end of the last ice
age which started 117,000 years ago, and I presume this is the "climate" we
are being urged to keep by reducing our greenhouse emissions.

However, we are overdue for another ice age, and they can come on fast. The
ice covering much of Europe and Canada-US was over 3,000 feet deep 20,000
years ago. So, taking a longer view, our current climate includes 100,000
years of heavy glaciation.

Earth has progressed from much too hot for life, 4 billion years ago; lush
and great for life during the coal and oil ages; but gradually cooling as
more and more carbon was deposited underground as our fossil fuels.
Ultimately this carbon depletion has led to our current cycle of
glaciers/warming. In the 60 Million years before this we had the climate
that permitted the development of mammals, deciduous trees and flowers.

The 1 °F temperature rise this century attributed to Human activity certainly
gives us some responsibility for our climate, but Ours is not the only hand
on the thermostat. So far, the long range prediction of climate is probably
no better than the prediction of the weather next month. The tilt of Earth's
axis, distance from the Sun, Volcanic eruptions, meteorite collisions and
the paths of ocean currents all play a role in determining our climate, and
it has varied by tens of degrees in many centuries. Our current decisions may
(or may not) determine which climate our children and grandchildren will
have. Maybe He put Humans here to get some of the carbon back into
circulation.

There have been noble attempts to limit our consumption of fossil fuels
(President Bush signed the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate
Change in 1992 and the Kyoto Protocol of 1997). These contrast with our
actual practice of using more and more oil with SUVs and trucks becoming our
typical mode of transportation. So we all feel guilty.
No one is in a position to tell whether the climate "experts" are correct,
but they have given us a load of guilt for driving our cars and heating our
homes. The global warming question may be moot, since it is widely predicted
that "cheap oil" will be exhausted in 10-30 years at which point other
renewable energy forms will be developed. Man proposes and God disposes.

However, if you are looking for practical ways to feel virtuous in the 21st
century, consider that the oil we don't waste today can be used by you, your
children and grandchildren to maintain a moderate lifestyle - or even to warm
our huts if the next glacier arrives on schedule.
~~~~~~~~
(Dr. Tom Reed is the president of the Biomass Energy Foundation and a former
Professor at the Colorado School of Mines. He can be reached at 303 278 0558
or Reedtb2 @ cs.com. Two recent articles on Climate appeared in the
Scientific American December 1999 issue, page 100 and the January 2,000
issue, p. 68.) 615 words.
The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
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