From apchick at dmu.ac.uk Wed Dec 1 13:57:35 1999 From: apchick at dmu.ac.uk (Andy Chick) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Volumetric Analysis of Producer Gas Message-ID: <38454C00.108D6F2C@dmu.ac.uk> Hello, Could anyone help me with a reference for the volumetric analysis of producer gas, when the feedstock for gasification is Charcoal. I have lots of data for wood, e.g. Producer Gas Composition %CO 21.0 %H2 14.5 %N2 48.16 % CH4 1.6 %CO2 9.7 %Water Vapour 4.8 CV Wood = 15 MJ/kg and Producer Gas 5.5 MJ/m3 but no published data for Charcoal. I have experimental data for gasifier efficiency with charcoal, and a theoretical model that predicts volumetric gas composition for charcoal. I would like to compare my results with some published results, can anyone help me with a suitable reference source? Andrew P Chick -- ________________________________________________________________________ Andrew. P. Chick apchick@dmu.ac.uk De Montfort University http://www.dmu.ac.uk/ln/itc School of Agriculture Tel 01400 275625 Caythorpe, Grantham Fax 01400 275656 Lincolnshire UK NG32 3EP ________________________________________________________________________ Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From tomb at snowcrest.net Wed Dec 1 22:46:42 1999 From: tomb at snowcrest.net (Tom Blackburn) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Interesting Producer Gas Application Message-ID: <000901bf3c78$9c3abb20$70ac4ed1@q3c2c0>     Dear List members,       The other night I came across an interesting pump that uses producer gas to directly act upon water in a closed vessel to propel it up into a tank. You can see this at  http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/hump.htm     I hope you enjoy this article as much as I did.       Regards,         Tom Blackburn   From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Dec 2 18:37:46 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Volumetric Analysis of Producer Gas Message-ID: <0.56299895.25785dee@cs.com> Dear Andrew: Good question! I too have gone looking for "charcoal gas" composition in, for instance, our Gen-Gas book without success. Pure carbon gasification of course would follow C + 1/2 O2 ==> CO for which the O/F(wt) ratio is 1.33 and the A/F ratio would be 6.37. This results in a MUCH higher nitrogen content and lower gas energy content. But of course charcoal is not C - lots of volatiles, and in many cases it is being gasified with steam or CO2 as well, or even with producer pyrolysis gas. If you get an7y good analyses, let me know. Yours truly, TOM REED BEF In a message dated 12/1/99 12:07:34 PM Mountain Standard Time, apchick@dmu.ac.uk writes: << Hello, Could anyone help me with a reference for the volumetric analysis of producer gas, when the feedstock for gasification is Charcoal. I have lots of data for wood, e.g. Producer Gas Composition %CO 21.0 %H2 14.5 %N2 48.16 % CH4 1.6 %CO2 9.7 %Water Vapour 4.8 CV Wood = 15 MJ/kg and Producer Gas 5.5 MJ/m3 but no published data for Charcoal. I have experimental data for gasifier efficiency with charcoal, and a theoretical model that predicts volumetric gas composition for charcoal. I would like to compare my results with some published results, can anyone help me with a suitable reference source? A >> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From arcate at email.msn.com Fri Dec 3 01:13:14 1999 From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Volumetric Analysis of Producer Gas In-Reply-To: <0.56299895.25785dee@cs.com> Message-ID: <001101bf3d56$b4b05500$0100007f@localhost> Dear Andrew & Gasification: You might ask Dr. Antal at the University of Hawaii, HNEI about gasification of charcoal. See http://www.eng.hawaii.edu/ME/faculty/antal.html I cover the HNEI charcoal process on my web site www.techtp.com The French looked at gasification of Torrefied Wood, see 5.2 Gasifier Fuel at http://www.techtp.com/torrefied%20wood.htm Good luck, Jim Arcate ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 1:42 PM Subject: Re: GAS-L: Volumetric Analysis of Producer Gas Dear Andrew: Good question! I too have gone looking for "charcoal gas" composition in, for instance, our Gen-Gas book without success. Pure carbon gasification of course would follow C + 1/2 O2 ==> CO for which the O/F(wt) ratio is 1.33 and the A/F ratio would be 6.37. This results in a MUCH higher nitrogen content and lower gas energy content. But of course charcoal is not C - lots of volatiles, and in many cases it is being gasified with steam or CO2 as well, or even with producer pyrolysis gas. If you get an7y good analyses, let me know. Yours truly, TOM REED BEF In a message dated 12/1/99 12:07:34 PM Mountain Standard Time, apchick@dmu.ac.uk writes: << Hello, Could anyone help me with a reference for the volumetric analysis of producer gas, when the feedstock for gasification is Charcoal. I have lots of data for wood, e.g. Producer Gas Composition %CO 21.0 %H2 14.5 %N2 48.16 % CH4 1.6 %CO2 9.7 %Water Vapour 4.8 CV Wood = 15 MJ/kg and Producer Gas 5.5 MJ/m3 but no published data for Charcoal. I have experimental data for gasifier efficiency with charcoal, and a theoretical model that predicts volumetric gas composition for charcoal. I would like to compare my results with some published results, can anyone help me with a suitable reference source? A >> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From cpeacocke at care.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 11:17:36 1999 From: cpeacocke at care.demon.co.uk (Cordner Peacocke) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Sewage Sludge Gasification Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991203162256.007a49f0@pop3.demon.co.uk> Dear Gasifiers, I am looking for a demonstration/commercial technology, either high temperature pyrolysis or gasification to produce a medium to high CV gas for use preferably in an engine or turbine. A boiler is the last resort. The technology would be used in the European Union by a major Water utility. The starting feedstocks are: (1) sewage sludge [30wt% max. solids, 70 wt% max. water] (2) sewage sludge screenings [max. 40 wt% water] (3) dried sewage sludge [4wt% water max.] The technology must be able to process up to 300,000 t/y of feedstock (1) and 15,000 t/y of feedstock (3). Modular plants are envisaged. Other details can be provided to interested parties on request. It is likely that pretreatment of feedstocks 1 and 2 are required to acheive a suitable material for processing. This must also be included with the technology. The technology must include feed pretreatment, the reactor and gas cleaning/conditioning. All of those companies with a genuine, suitable technology for a real commercial opportunity are invited to contact me. Evidence of continuous operation is required, measured emissions from the process and compliance with environmental legislation in the EU is an essential requirement. Procedures and processes for dealing with condensate and the residual solids from the sludge must be provided. There is a tight timescale involved and a prompt reply would be greatly appreciated. No research scale technologies please. Yours sincerely, Cordner Peacocke [Dr.] Director Conversion And Resource Evaluation Ltd. 9 Myrtle House 5 Cassowary Road Birmingham B20 1NE. Tel: (44) 121 551 0344 or (44) 1232 422658 Fax: (44) 870 0542981 or (44) 121 359 6814 Internet: http://www.care.demon.co.uk/ Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From graeme at powerlink.co.nz Mon Dec 6 03:43:01 1999 From: graeme at powerlink.co.nz (Graeme Williams) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Doug Williams' gasification pictures online Message-ID: <000701bf460f$812c96a0$65e637d2@graeme> Dear Tom R et al Following on from the previous discussions regarding downdraught gasifiers, and the request for more photographs to illustrate what we talk about, I have posted a few from our files. This is the first time any of the pictures on the transition of wood blocks to char from our work has been shown, as only hands-on visuals can accurately depict the change through transition. I have to point out however that what is shown is only representative of this fuel, (pine blocks) and if you change fuel so does the behaviour of the char formation and structure of the packed oxidation zone. Whilst I have hundreds of photographs, many reprints are required in some instances to cover everything relevant. Download those of interest to you for your own files. _____________________________________________ Doug's website: http://members.xoom.com/whitools/ All pictures on the above site are standard jpg format, and some content requires Adobe Acrobat Reader for PDF files. _____________________________________________ Regards Doug Williams Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Dec 6 08:33:13 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <0.ca935a20.257d1620@cs.com> Dear Dan et al: Sorry, didn't mean to be crytic... The 3,000 C furnace that I remember from my 1950s Linde education (probably going back to the Manhatten project) was a transite (asbestos board) box approximately 50X40 X100 cm with a lid that could be removed for filling. There was a 7 cm diameter hole in each end and 6 cm carbon tube with about a 0.5 cm wall was located on the axis. The box was then filled with "thermatomic carbon" probably the same as lamp black as insulation. In operation a VERY heavy transformer supplied 1000 amps at ? volts for power. Voila 3,000C. Simple, but elegant. I'm sorry I've never had need to generate those temperatures in graphite, buat I have made inert gas furnaces going to 2700 C using a tungsten heating element with tantalum heat shields. yours truly, TOM REED BEF In a message dated 11/26/99 11:53:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, dgill@ccsinc.com writes: << Tom, What does the graphite rod and "lots of current" do? Dan Reedtb2@cs.com wrote: > > Dear Stovers: > > I have been pushing insulation for cookstoves for 3 years here with little > sign of interest from the group. So, GOOD QUESTION... > > I don't know about charcoal, but you can make a very nice 3,000 C furnace > with a graphite tube, lots of current, and THERMATOMIC CARBON. Thermatomic > carbon looks like lampblack - very fine and dusty - and may actually be > lampblack. Nasty to handle, but great insulation. I didn't find anything on > the Web about it under that name. > > The principle of operation of TH CA is that each granule is heated by > radiation, and returns hald that radiation back similar to the action of heat > shields. Whether charcoal would do that or not, I don't know. > > Yours truly, TOM REED BEF > >> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From LINVENT at aol.com Mon Dec 6 11:55:12 1999 From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <0.46755860.257d458f@aol.com> Dear Tom Reed et. al., I once saw a demonstration of a thin layer of graphite or some form of carbon filament cloth being heated on one side with an acetlyene torch and being held against a guys hand. Very impressive. Apparently the carbon would conduct heat in one direction only and would conduct it across the cloth instead of through it. While working at Sandia National Labs, we used a laser to excite a sample on a mass spectrometer and had a white substance left on the surface which we later found out what it was which found out to be a form of carbon formed under high temperature and vacuum, so with this, there are innumerable forms of carbon in the universe and one or another may have properties which fit better than any other material. I do not understand several things about this such as why carbon based compounds are not more widely used, why carbon can be exposed to high temperature conditions which will normally destroy carbon such as steam activation of carbon to activated carbon which will normally form CO and H2, and why the carbon heated with an acetlyene torch on one side did not merely burn? Any answers? Sincerely, Tom Taylor Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From snkm at btl.net Tue Dec 7 21:22:53 1999 From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991207202914.006d38e8@wgs1.btl.net> Ok guys -- Back somewhere in around 1985 -- http://www.icpowercontrols.com/arc.html You'll see at this web site of one of my past co-workers -- Mat Lewis -- an example of our micro-processing wizardry. We built a plasma arc furnace -- operating under a hydrogen atmosphere. We never could measure the temperatures. But furnace melt down was approximately 2 minutes. What is neat here is the fact that we generated huge amperage with out using a transformer. This was done directly off a 220 volt -- single phase -- line entrance. This by using a microcomputer controlling scr's in a feed back loop. The last picture shows my legs and gut! I think it took us around 8 days to build this -- and cost around $200. And that is a corner of the old prototype development shop -- corner of St Jacque and Guy streets -- central Montreal City. In a 100 year plus lamp factory. Interestingly -- the light that came out of the pour hole was polarized and did not disperse -- almost like a 75,000 watt laser! When in operation the door in front of it was kept open -- and this incredible beam of light was broadcast to the skies. The radiant energy in the beam was very high! We did not build this device on contract -- or for sale -- but simply because we had an idea it could be done -- and wanted to cast some stainless steel belt buckles using scrap from the metal shop besides us. The refractory, water cooled, was plumbago (foundry grade graphite) The electrodes were hard graphite. Plumbago is an inexpensive refractory material that is mixed with water and used like cement. What you can't do with a micro-controller!! But then nobody believes what we were doing back 15 years ago -- even today! Those were the days!! Peter / Belize At 08:37 AM 12/6/99 EST, you wrote: >Dear Dan et al: > >Sorry, didn't mean to be crytic... > >The 3,000 C furnace that I remember from my 1950s Linde education (probably >going back to the Manhatten project) was a transite (asbestos board) box >approximately 50X40 X100 cm with a lid that could be removed for filling. >There was a 7 cm diameter hole in each end and 6 cm carbon tube with about a >0.5 cm wall was located on the axis. The box was then filled with >"thermatomic carbon" probably the same as lamp black as insulation. > >In operation a VERY heavy transformer supplied 1000 amps at ? volts for >power. Voila 3,000C. Simple, but elegant. I'm sorry I've never had need to >generate those temperatures in graphite, buat I have made inert gas furnaces >going to 2700 C using a tungsten heating element with tantalum heat shields. > >yours truly, TOM REED BEF > >In a message dated 11/26/99 11:53:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, >dgill@ccsinc.com writes: > ><< Tom, > > What does the graphite rod and "lots of current" do? > > Dan > > Reedtb2@cs.com wrote: > > > > Dear Stovers: > > > > I have been pushing insulation for cookstoves for 3 years here with little > > sign of interest from the group. So, GOOD QUESTION... > > > > I don't know about charcoal, but you can make a very nice 3,000 C furnace > > with a graphite tube, lots of current, and THERMATOMIC CARBON. Thermatomic > > carbon looks like lampblack - very fine and dusty - and may actually be > > lampblack. Nasty to handle, but great insulation. I didn't find anything >on > > the Web about it under that name. > > > > The principle of operation of TH CA is that each granule is heated by > > radiation, and returns hald that radiation back similar to the action of >heat > > shields. Whether charcoal would do that or not, I don't know. > > > > Yours truly, TOM REED BEF > > >> >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From snkm at btl.net Tue Dec 7 21:55:57 1999 From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991207205952.00769844@wgs1.btl.net> Sorry -- forgot one point -- Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat. Peter/Belize Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From LINVENT at aol.com Wed Dec 8 10:18:50 1999 From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <0.ab5a624.257fd202@aol.com> Peter, 8 days at 8hrs/day is 64 hours, at $200? Parts $200, labor much more. Tom Taylor Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From snkm at btl.net Wed Dec 8 12:34:42 1999 From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991208094305.0076a41c@wgs1.btl.net> Tom; We never count labor! Just like the guys climbing Mount Everest did not. At 10:23 AM 12/8/99 EST, you wrote: >Peter, > 8 days at 8hrs/day is 64 hours, at $200? Parts $200, labor much more. >Tom Taylor >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From tmiles at teleport.com Thu Dec 9 00:52:12 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Bioenergy List Activity and Annual Appeal Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991208211730.01ee4760@mail.teleport.com> It may interest list members to know how many people we have on these ongoing, on-line, bioenergy "conferences." After five years we have five lists: Bioenergy, Gasification, Stoves, Digestion, Bioconversion. Each list has a digest and a web archive. List membership for the Bioenergy list varies between 400-500 members with about 10% entering or leaving each year. Stoves, Gasification and Digestion vary between 200-300 members with a similar turnover. Bioconversion has about 120 members. The number of messages varies with topics and events. Topics are "free choice." Since the intent is the exchange of scientific and practical or commercial experience, advertising is discouraged. List moderators screen only unsolicited commercial email (SPAM). Lists are proactive; you usually have to ask a question to get the answers you're looking for. The lists are hosted by the Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable Technology (www.crest.org). CREST manages the list software on its computers and archives messages from the lists on the Web. We now have up to five years of messages on the archives. People who search the web for bioenergy topics often find our list messages. The bioenergy list archives received more than 76,000 web requests (hits) during November: Bioenergy 31,000; Stoves 16,000; Gasification 15,000; Digestion 13,000; Bioconversion 2,000. They average more than 2500 requests per day. The lists are funded through the generous contributions of time and money by our list moderators (Alex English, Tom Jeffries, Ron Larson, Phil Lusk, Tom Miles, Tom Reed), list sponsors (Bioenergy - David Gubanc, PE and DK Teknik, Martin Fock; Gasification - Biomass Energy Foundation, Tom Reed; Stoves- FAO Auke Koopmans and Kirk Smith, UC Berkley; Digestion - Hitoshi Marruyama, IEA Phil Lusk; Bioconversions - USDA Forest Service, Tom Jeffries) and CREST. List sponsorship is $300/year. List sponsors and volunteer moderators are always needed and always welcome. (To contribute see http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml ) I'd like to thank all of the list members, volunteers and supporters who make these bioenergy discussions possible. We have created the highest quality, lowest cost bioenergy conference on record. Regards, Tom Miles Bioenergy Lists Administrator ------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com T.R. Miles, Technical Consultants, Inc. 1470 SW Woodward Way Portland, Oregon, USA Tel:(503) 646-1198/292-0107 http://www.teleport.com/~tmiles/ Fax:(503) 605-0208/292-2919 Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu Thu Dec 9 09:46:55 1999 From: dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu (Schmidt, Darren) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:16 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <601A55066596D211A7AD00104BC6FB254CE621@catalina.eerc.und.NoDak.edu> Look up the thermal conductivity of carbon and compare to other materials. It is an insulator. Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager Energy & Environmental Research Center PO Box 9018 Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202 dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu Ph (701) 777-5120 Fax (701) 777-5181 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:06 PM To: gasification@crest.org Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? Sorry -- forgot one point -- Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat. Peter/Belize Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From james at sri.org.au Thu Dec 9 16:59:41 1999 From: james at sri.org.au (james@sri.org.au) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: My understanding is that the reason people can walk on "hot" coals is that the charcoal insulates them from the smouldering remains below. Surely the insulating value of carbon is strongly dependant on the form the carbon is in. So, perhaps diamonds are good conductors. James Joyce "Schmidt, Darren" Sent by: cc: owner-gasification@ Subject: RE: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? crest.org 10/12/99 00:46 Please respond to gasification Look up the thermal conductivity of carbon and compare to other materials. It is an insulator. Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager Energy & Environmental Research Center PO Box 9018 Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202 dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu Ph (701) 777-5120 Fax (701) 777-5181 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:06 PM To: gasification@crest.org Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? Sorry -- forgot one point -- Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat. Peter/Belize Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From LINVENT at aol.com Thu Dec 9 18:25:30 1999 From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re:Carbon Message-ID: <0.6382b547.25819595@aol.com> Dear carbon interests. How many different forms of carbon are there? Tom Taylor Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From LINVENT at aol.com Thu Dec 9 18:38:19 1999 From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <0.5bd07835.25819897@aol.com> Dear Peter, I am glad that comparing the construction of your project is being compared to climbing Mount Everest. The point is, costs of labor have to be included in any project development in order to value the work properly and configure it properly to the commercial markets. Not doing so creates an illusion that it is a commercially feasible activity when in fact it may not be. Of course, if the climbers of Mount Everest were offering tourist rates for going along, they would have to include the cost of equipment, Sherpas and the whole enchilada as a charge to the tourists. The rates would be astronomical. Of course, to prevent massive lawsuits, insurance costs would have to be included. I am not one to talk as I frequently underestimate the real costs of a project and use optimistic figures in the conceptualization of technology costs. This is a real problem for the real world problems which we are tackling. If two engineers work 64 hours each at a minimum of $20/hour, the real cost is without overhead such as rent, insurance, taxes and the like, $200+$2560=$2760., so a real figure is probably $5000. Sorry, but reality is reality. Tom Taylor Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From snkm at btl.net Thu Dec 9 18:55:10 1999 From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991209174926.01059d28@wgs1.btl.net> Charcoal is a very porous medium of carbon. Graphite is not! And diamonds even less again! But here are some figures of interest. Thermal conductivity - K = btu/(hr)(ft)(deg.F.) Material: K Carbon, Graphite 2.9 Chalk .15 Coke, powdered .11 Concrete, stone .7 Cotton .03 Fire Brick .75 Glass .3 Porcelain .83 Quartz 3.9 Sawdust .03 Wool .02 Stainless Steel 12.0 Copper 223.0 So -- if you built the walls of your house out of carbon (as graphite) -- they would have to be four times thicker than if they were built of cemment to give the same insulation factor. And where I come from -- we call bare cement walls uninsulated!! Or to put it another way -- a graphite wall 100 inches thick would be roughly the same insulation factor as a sawdust wall one inch thick. Some heat insulator -- eh?? I was waiting for some one else to catch this -- nobody knew?? Peter/Belize At 08:08 AM 12/10/99 +1000, you wrote: > >My understanding is that the reason people can walk on "hot" coals is that >the charcoal insulates them from the smouldering remains below. Surely the >insulating value of carbon is strongly dependant on the form the carbon is >in. So, perhaps diamonds are good conductors. > >James Joyce > > > > > "Schmidt, Darren" > nodak.edu> > Sent by: cc: > owner-gasification@ Subject: RE: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? > crest.org > > > 10/12/99 00:46 > Please respond to > gasification > > > > > >Look up the thermal conductivity of carbon and compare to other materials. >It is an insulator. > >Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager >Energy & Environmental Research Center >PO Box 9018 >Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202 >dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu >Ph (701) 777-5120 >Fax (701) 777-5181 > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net] >Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:06 PM >To: gasification@crest.org >Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? > > >Sorry -- forgot one point -- > >Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat. > > >Peter/Belize >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > > > > >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From mlrollins at tva.gov Fri Dec 10 09:25:37 1999 From: mlrollins at tva.gov (Rollins, Martha L.) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Bioenergy List Activity and Annual Appeal Message-ID: <2ADF1FA34AB1D111ADB30000F80148CC0600E7C0@chachaois2b.cha.tva.gov> Tom I need to get off this distribution list. I am gone so much that I do not have time to read them, just zap them. Thanks. Martha L. (Bunni) Rollins TVA Public Power Institute Chattanooga Regional Office 1101 Market Street MR 2T Chattanooga, TN 37402-2801 423.751.4712 Fax 423.751.2463 mlrollins@tva.gov > ---------- > From: Tom Miles[SMTP:tmiles@teleport.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 1:02 AM > To: bioenergy@crest.org > Cc: stoves@crest.org; gasification@crest.org; digestion@crest.org; > bioconversion@crest.org > Subject: GAS-L: Bioenergy List Activity and Annual Appeal > > It may interest list members to know how many people we have on these > ongoing, on-line, bioenergy "conferences." > > After five years we have five lists: Bioenergy, Gasification, Stoves, > Digestion, Bioconversion. Each list has a digest and a web archive. > > List membership for the Bioenergy list varies between 400-500 members with > > about 10% entering or leaving each year. Stoves, Gasification and > Digestion > vary between 200-300 members with a similar turnover. Bioconversion has > about 120 members. The number of messages varies with topics and events. > Topics are "free choice." Since the intent is the exchange of scientific > and practical or commercial experience, advertising is discouraged. List > moderators screen only unsolicited commercial email (SPAM). Lists are > proactive; you usually have to ask a question to get the answers you're > looking for. > > The lists are hosted by the Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable > Technology (www.crest.org). CREST manages the list software on its > computers and archives messages from the lists on the Web. We now have up > to five years of messages on the archives. People who search the web for > bioenergy topics often find our list messages. > > The bioenergy list archives received more than 76,000 web requests (hits) > during November: Bioenergy 31,000; Stoves 16,000; Gasification 15,000; > Digestion 13,000; Bioconversion 2,000. They average more than 2500 > requests > per day. > > The lists are funded through the generous contributions of time and money > by our list moderators (Alex English, Tom Jeffries, Ron Larson, Phil Lusk, > > Tom Miles, Tom Reed), list sponsors (Bioenergy - David Gubanc, PE and DK > Teknik, Martin Fock; Gasification - Biomass Energy Foundation, Tom Reed; > Stoves- FAO Auke Koopmans and Kirk Smith, UC Berkley; Digestion - Hitoshi > Marruyama, IEA Phil Lusk; Bioconversions - USDA Forest Service, Tom > Jeffries) and CREST. List sponsorship is $300/year. List sponsors and > volunteer moderators are always needed and always welcome. (To contribute > see http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml ) > > I'd like to thank all of the list members, volunteers and supporters who > make these bioenergy discussions possible. We have created the highest > quality, lowest cost bioenergy conference on record. > > Regards, > > Tom Miles > Bioenergy Lists Administrator > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com > T.R. Miles, Technical Consultants, Inc. > 1470 SW Woodward Way > Portland, Oregon, USA Tel:(503) 646-1198/292-0107 > http://www.teleport.com/~tmiles/ Fax:(503) 605-0208/292-2919 > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES > http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > Gasification Projects > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From tmiles at teleport.com Fri Dec 10 10:24:29 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Bioenergy List Activity and Annual Appeal In-Reply-To: <2ADF1FA34AB1D111ADB30000F80148CC0600E7C0@chachaois2b.cha.tva.gov> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991210073009.01f54cb0@mail.teleport.com> Bunni, I've pulled you off the list. Tom At 09:31 AM 12/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >mlrollins@tva.gov Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu Fri Dec 10 10:38:14 1999 From: dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu (Schmidt, Darren) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <601A55066596D211A7AD00104BC6FB254CE628@catalina.eerc.und.NoDak.edu> From: Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager Energy & Environmental Research Center PO Box 9018 Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202 dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu Ph (701) 777-5120 Fax (701) 777-5181 Thought this discussion was interesting. Here is another 2 cents worth. I couldn't find any thing telling me how to define wether something is an insulator or a conductor. According to the dictionary the real definition would be relative. So in your sense you are right, when comparing fiberglass insulation k=0.026 to concrete k=0.7, which is 26 times greater, and comparing concrete to graphite k=2.9. I thought of charcoal as an insulator because I was thinking in terms of a different case. Charcoal powder k=0.029. At one time I was looking at heat conductivity and basically comparing charcoal to steel and water. steel k=26.2, water k=0.343 Here is the case: When removing charcoal from the our gasifier it came out hot (approx. 400 - 1000°F) and needed to be cooled before dumping it into a super sack or whatever. We were looking at economical ways to cool it down. One method was just to water jacket augers and vessels. As it turned out the water jacket wasn't much better than natural air convection, and the thermal conductivity of charcoal played and important factor. Details: The heat transfer of an auger should be better than a stationary hopper due to the mixing of the particles, however it is not beneficial to water jacket the auger. Four items effect heat transfer in this problem: 1. inner film coefficient, 2. TC of charcoal, 3. TC of steel auger wall, 4. outer film coefficient. (TC - Thermal conductivity) The most limiting factor is expected to be the outer film coefficient, that is the justification for a water jacket, however, as it turns out, the TC of the charcoal at a 1/8 inch layer is equivalent to the outer film coefficient. So, any heat conductivity gain a water jacket supplies, the charcoal layer remains to limit along with the inner film coefficient. In this case charcoal was too much of an insulator. Here are some bulk densities and corresponding thermal conductivities (btu/hr ft F): Charcoal powder 11.5 lb/ft^3, 0.029, Graphite solid 93.5 lb/ft^3, 87, Diamond 151 lb/ft^3, 320. Carbon black 12 lb/ft^3, 0.012. Peter wrote: Charcoal is a very porous medium of carbon. Graphite is not! And diamonds even less again! Peter wrote: But here are some figures of interest. Thermal conductivity - K = btu/(hr)(ft)(deg.F.) Material: K Carbon, Graphite 2.9 Chalk .15 Coke, powdered .11 Concrete, stone .7 Cotton .03 Fire Brick .75 Glass .3 Porcelain .83 Quartz 3.9 Sawdust .03 Wool .02 Stainless Steel 12.0 Copper 223.0 Peter Wrote: So -- if you built the walls of your house out of carbon (as graphite) -- they would have to be four times thicker than if they were built of cemment to give the same insulation factor. And where I come from -- we call bare cement walls uninsulated!! Peter wrote: Or to put it another way -- a graphite wall 100 inches thick would be roughly the same insulation factor as a sawdust wall one inch thick. Peter wrote:Some heat insulator -- eh?? Peter wrote:I was waiting for some one else to catch this -- nobody knew?? Peter/Belize At 08:08 AM 12/10/99 +1000, you wrote: > >My understanding is that the reason people can walk on "hot" coals is that >the charcoal insulates them from the smouldering remains below. Surely the >insulating value of carbon is strongly dependant on the form the carbon is >in. So, perhaps diamonds are good conductors. > >James Joyce > > > > > "Schmidt, Darren" > nodak.edu> > Sent by: cc: > owner-gasification@ Subject: RE: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? > crest.org > > > 10/12/99 00:46 > Please respond to > gasification > > > > > >Look up the thermal conductivity of carbon and compare to other materials. >It is an insulator. > >Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager >Energy & Environmental Research Center >PO Box 9018 >Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202 >dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu >Ph (701) 777-5120 >Fax (701) 777-5181 > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net] >Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:06 PM >To: gasification@crest.org >Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? > > >Sorry -- forgot one point -- > >Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat. > > >Peter/Belize >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > > > > >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From snkm at btl.net Fri Dec 10 15:33:01 1999 From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991210144134.00758ea4@wgs1.btl.net> Darren; Extremely interesting! My suggestion would be to use low pressure, super saturated, steam to cool it down to at least 250F. Or simply inject the proper amount of fine spray water directly. Think of how they used to boil water in a leather pouch by throwing hot stones into it. What you are lacking is an intimate contact with the carbon -- as film coefficient is directly related to surface area. Charcoal is quite porous -- so you have to "trick" your way around that. Quenching in just the right amount of water should also work -- leaving a dry and cooler product. In fact -- with the proper dry air flow over your quenching pit you should achieve final temperatures around the ambient dew point. Lots of ways to skin that cat! You could even recover that "steam" for extra heating purposes other places. Once you make intimate contact with carbon and cooling fluid -- the heat conductivity of the carbon is high enough. Peter / Belize At 09:37 AM 12/10/99 -0600, you wrote: >From: >Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager >Energy & Environmental Research Center >PO Box 9018 >Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202 >dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu >Ph (701) 777-5120 >Fax (701) 777-5181 > >Thought this discussion was interesting. Here is another 2 cents worth. >I couldn't find any thing telling me how to define wether something is an >insulator or a conductor. According to the dictionary the real definition >would be relative. So in your sense you are right, when comparing >fiberglass insulation k=0.026 to concrete k=0.7, which is 26 times greater, >and comparing concrete to graphite k=2.9. I thought of charcoal as an >insulator because I was thinking in terms of a different case. Charcoal >powder k=0.029. At one time I was looking at heat conductivity and basically >comparing charcoal to steel and water. steel k=26.2, water k=0.343 > >Here is the case: When removing charcoal from the our gasifier it came out >hot (approx. 400 - 1000°F) and needed to be cooled before dumping it into a >super sack or whatever. We were looking at economical ways to cool it down. >One method was just to water jacket augers and vessels. As it turned out >the water jacket wasn't much better than natural air convection, and the >thermal conductivity of charcoal played and important factor. > >Details: The heat transfer of an auger should be better than a stationary >hopper due to the mixing of the particles, however it is not beneficial to >water jacket the auger. Four items effect heat transfer in this problem: 1. >inner film coefficient, 2. TC of charcoal, 3. TC of steel auger wall, 4. >outer film coefficient. (TC - Thermal conductivity) The most limiting factor >is expected to be the outer film coefficient, that is the justification for >a water jacket, however, as it turns out, the TC of the charcoal at a 1/8 >inch layer is equivalent to the outer film coefficient. So, any heat >conductivity gain a water jacket supplies, the charcoal layer remains to >limit along with the inner film coefficient. In this case charcoal was too >much of an insulator. > >Here are some bulk densities and corresponding thermal conductivities >(btu/hr ft F): >Charcoal powder 11.5 lb/ft^3, 0.029, >Graphite solid 93.5 lb/ft^3, 87, >Diamond 151 lb/ft^3, 320. >Carbon black 12 lb/ft^3, 0.012. > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu Fri Dec 10 16:27:55 1999 From: dschmidt at eerc.und.nodak.edu (Schmidt, Darren) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <601A55066596D211A7AD00104BC6FB254CE62E@catalina.eerc.und.NoDak.edu> Your suggestion was carried out in the form of a water spray. Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager Energy & Environmental Research Center PO Box 9018 Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202 dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu Ph (701) 777-5120 Fax (701) 777-5181 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net] Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 2:43 PM To: gasification@crest.org Subject: Re: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator? Darren; Extremely interesting! My suggestion would be to use low pressure, super saturated, steam to cool it down to at least 250F. Or simply inject the proper amount of fine spray water directly. Think of how they used to boil water in a leather pouch by throwing hot stones into it. What you are lacking is an intimate contact with the carbon -- as film coefficient is directly related to surface area. Charcoal is quite porous -- so you have to "trick" your way around that. Quenching in just the right amount of water should also work -- leaving a dry and cooler product. In fact -- with the proper dry air flow over your quenching pit you should achieve final temperatures around the ambient dew point. Lots of ways to skin that cat! You could even recover that "steam" for extra heating purposes other places. Once you make intimate contact with carbon and cooling fluid -- the heat conductivity of the carbon is high enough. Peter / Belize At 09:37 AM 12/10/99 -0600, you wrote: >From: >Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager >Energy & Environmental Research Center >PO Box 9018 >Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202 >dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu >Ph (701) 777-5120 >Fax (701) 777-5181 > >Thought this discussion was interesting. Here is another 2 cents worth. >I couldn't find any thing telling me how to define wether something is an >insulator or a conductor. According to the dictionary the real definition >would be relative. So in your sense you are right, when comparing >fiberglass insulation k=0.026 to concrete k=0.7, which is 26 times greater, >and comparing concrete to graphite k=2.9. I thought of charcoal as an >insulator because I was thinking in terms of a different case. Charcoal >powder k=0.029. At one time I was looking at heat conductivity and basically >comparing charcoal to steel and water. steel k=26.2, water k=0.343 > >Here is the case: When removing charcoal from the our gasifier it came out >hot (approx. 400 - 1000°F) and needed to be cooled before dumping it into a >super sack or whatever. We were looking at economical ways to cool it down. >One method was just to water jacket augers and vessels. As it turned out >the water jacket wasn't much better than natural air convection, and the >thermal conductivity of charcoal played and important factor. > >Details: The heat transfer of an auger should be better than a stationary >hopper due to the mixing of the particles, however it is not beneficial to >water jacket the auger. Four items effect heat transfer in this problem: 1. >inner film coefficient, 2. TC of charcoal, 3. TC of steel auger wall, 4. >outer film coefficient. (TC - Thermal conductivity) The most limiting factor >is expected to be the outer film coefficient, that is the justification for >a water jacket, however, as it turns out, the TC of the charcoal at a 1/8 >inch layer is equivalent to the outer film coefficient. So, any heat >conductivity gain a water jacket supplies, the charcoal layer remains to >limit along with the inner film coefficient. In this case charcoal was too >much of an insulator. > >Here are some bulk densities and corresponding thermal conductivities >(btu/hr ft F): >Charcoal powder 11.5 lb/ft^3, 0.029, >Graphite solid 93.5 lb/ft^3, 87, >Diamond 151 lb/ft^3, 320. >Carbon black 12 lb/ft^3, 0.012. > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From arcate at email.msn.com Fri Dec 10 21:26:43 1999 From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Proposal for Torrefied Wood Message-ID: <002401bf4380$61f53d00$0100007f@localhost> Hello: We plan to submit a proposal for PON No. 489-99 due December 16, 1999. See http://www.nyserda.org/489pon.html Our proposed project will promote commercialization of Torrefied Wood as a bioresource for energy recovery and waste minimization. Collaborative teams must have at least one significant New York State partner. We need a New York Company to work with us, e.g., on the market analysis and commercialization plan. Please let me know ASAP if you are interested. thank you, Jim Arcate Transnational Technology 3447 Pipa Place Honolulu, HI 96822-1221 (808) 988-7502 or 9713 www.techtp.com Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From arcate at email.msn.com Sat Dec 11 01:41:46 1999 From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: New York Partner Wanted Message-ID: <001301bf43a3$fdbb3d20$0100007f@localhost> Hello: We have a proposal ready to submit for commercialization of Torrefied Wood as a bioresource for energy recovery and waste minimization. All we need is the name of and a letter of commitment from a New York State Company or Organization to partner with us on the project. The PON No. 489-99 is due December 16, 1999. See http://www.nyserda.org/489pon.html Anyone interested please let me know ASAP. thank you, Jim Arcate Transnational Technology 3447 Pipa Place Honolulu, HI 96822-1221 (808) 988-7502 or 9713 www.techtp.com Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 11 17:53:11 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal, Sea Sweep quenching Message-ID: <0.8f9208ed.25843104@cs.com> Dear Gasification 300: Along with Peter's suggestions: We manufacture a product Sea Sweep by pyrolysing wood above the Torrefied temperature and below the charcoal buffered endpoint of about 420C. We quench it to keep it from overheating and put it directly in bags. If we add too much water, the inside of the sealed bags will bet steamy. If not enough, the bags melt. We bring final temperature to about 70C. Probably the same would apply to bagging charcoal. Good luck.. TOM REED BEF, SEA SWEEP, CPC,.... In a message dated 12/10/99 2:37:36 PM Mountain Standard Time, dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu writes: << Darren; Extremely interesting! My suggestion would be to use low pressure, super saturated, steam to cool it down to at least 250F. Or simply inject the proper amount of fine spray water directly. Think of how they used to boil water in a leather pouch by throwing hot stones into it. What you are lacking is an intimate contact with the carbon -- as film coefficient is directly related to surface area. Charcoal is quite porous -- so you have to "trick" your way around that. Quenching in just the right amount of water should also work -- leaving a dry and cooler product. In fact -- with the proper dry air flow over your quenching pit you should achieve final temperatures around the ambient dew point. Lots of ways to skin that cat! You could even recover that "steam" for extra heating purposes other places. Once you make intimate contact with carbon and cooling fluid -- the heat conductivity of the carbon is high enough. Peter / Belize >> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 11 17:53:16 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <0.f16fe159.25843107@cs.com> G2000: Some diamonds (Type 2?) can have a thermal conductivity 20 times that of copper at low temperatures! And I boosted "Thermatomic Carbon" (= carbon black?) as being the best insulation for a 3000C graphite tube furnace. So, carbon in its many forms covers the whole range from highest to lowest thermal conduction. Nice to hear a scientific discussion here at old Gasification 2000. Tom Miles says we have 200-300 members, but most of them are tongue tied. I hope that each of you will identify yourselves to the others once before the New Year-Century-Millenium - or consider unsubscribing. TOM REED BEF In a message dated 12/10/99 8:45:48 AM Mountain Standard Time, dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu writes: << At 08:08 AM 12/10/99 +1000, you wrote: > >My understanding is that the reason people can walk on "hot" coals is that >the charcoal insulates them from the smouldering remains below. Surely the >insulating value of carbon is strongly dependant on the form the carbon is >in. So, perhaps diamonds are good conductors. > >> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 11 17:53:57 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal Discussions, where's the STOVES? Message-ID: <0.44209f7d.25843130@cs.com> Dear Lists and Tom Miles: Half my mail seems to be on charcoal these days. Formerly the charcoal discussions were mostly on STOVES. Now they have drifted over to GASIFICATION. I am as interested in the thousands of forms of charcoal as anyone and glad to read the discussions. However, I wonder if this continual interest doesn't indicate that we should have a separate CREST site for charcoal. After all, it was humanity's first synthetic fuel; without it we would never have developed metals, hence computers, hence Email, hence this list! There seems to be tremendous resurgence of interest in CHARCOAL, from the small production to commercial activated, but the science is typically thin. (Danny day [www.scientificcarbons.com]: Say something about your site and production). Hate to proliferate sites, but CHARCOAL (or CARBON) is definitely a candidate. Incidentally, what has happened to WOOD COOKING STOVES for developing countries, the original subject of STOVES? Have we lost interest? Frustration? Our Tubo stove is going in to beta testing soon. Yours truly, TOM REED BEF Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 11 17:54:09 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as a CONDUCTOR??? Message-ID: <0.8476fe8f.2584313d@cs.com> Peter and all... Charcoal a good conductor of heat?? Nonsense! Metals are GREAT conductors (through the electron mobility). Diamonds are great. Some ceramics OK. Charcoal? Not. That's why your feet can conduct heat away from the burning surface faster than it arrives in a fire pit and not even blister. That's why water cooling the auger doesn't cool the charcoal very well. Yours, TOM REED BEF PRESS In a message dated 12/7/99 8:04:05 PM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net writes: << Sorry -- forgot one point -- Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat. Peter/Belize Gasifi >> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 11 17:54:14 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <0.3cc358fd.25843146@cs.com> Dear Tom Taylor et al: With all this exchange of info on various forms of carbon, I started to list a few, then realized a few would be a few hundred. THERMATOMIC CARBON is made by decomposing carbon containing materials on a hot mandrel, such that the graphite crystals are oriented parallel to the mandrel surface. The graphite crystals are highly anisotropic and conduct heat only in the plane. So you can heat one side, burn the fingers holding the edges far away, and not burn the finger 1/2 cm away. Neat stuff for crucibles (I used to be the chief crystal grower at MIT, so had to know lots about crucibles etc.) The density and form of carbon have a lot to do with the rate of reaction with steam and CO2. High density forms are very resistant to reaction, even when incandescent. As to why they don't use more carbon, it must be in the top ten chemicals in sales, but under many names. Every tire contains 30 % carbon black. That adds up. Yours truly, TOM REED BEF In a message dated 12/6/99 10:04:54 AM Mountain Standard Time, LINVENT@aol.com writes: << Dear Tom Reed et. al., I once saw a demonstration of a thin layer of graphite or some form of carbon filament cloth being heated on one side with an acetlyene torch and being held against a guys hand. Very impressive. Apparently the carbon would conduct heat in one direction only and would conduct it across the cloth instead of through it. While working at Sandia National Labs, we used a laser to excite a sample on a mass spectrometer and had a white substance left on the surface which we later found out what it was which found out to be a form of carbon formed under high temperature and vacuum, so with this, there are innumerable forms of carbon in the universe and one or another may have properties which fit better than any other material. I do not understand several things about this such as why carbon based compounds are not more widely used, why carbon can be exposed to high temperature conditions which will normally destroy carbon such as steam activation of carbon to activated carbon which will normally form CO and H2, and why the carbon heated with an acetlyene torch on one side did not merely burn? Any answers? Sincerely, Tom Taylor >> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From tmiles at teleport.com Sat Dec 11 21:26:29 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991211183520.00c41be0@mail.teleport.com> Dear List Members, I've created a couple of web pages with links that have been posted to the bioenergy lists as another way of finding useful sources of information from list members. Look at: http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ Regards, Tom Miles Bioenergy Lists Administrator ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225 Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From ticu at rdsor.ro Sun Dec 12 01:29:57 1999 From: ticu at rdsor.ro (Cornel Ticarat) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Average or maximum service temperature? Density? Message-ID: Peter and Darren, You have given as follows: <> As fas as I know, the thermal conductivity of a certain material varies with the temperature it is used with and with its density. If so, what are the temperatures for each of the above materials at the given K values? Densities of the materials? I need that information as I am interested in finding some very good insulating material (with a very low thermal conductivity) for a kiln. Thanks. Cornel / Romania Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From snkm at btl.net Sun Dec 12 11:14:47 1999 From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as a CONDUCTOR??? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991212101014.0075f760@wgs1.btl.net> At 05:59 PM 12/11/99 EST, you wrote: >Peter and all... > >Charcoal a good conductor of heat?? Nonsense! Metals are GREAT conductors >(through the electron mobility). Diamonds are great. Some ceramics OK. All true -- but when you need a conductor at 3000F??? Say for instance you need to imbed boiler tubing in an extremely hot fire box. (I actually have one such "problem" regarding an incinerator operating at 3200F for destruction of toxic wastes) The problem with carbon in that application is that it will burn off. However, I have always wondered about thin coating it with another refractory --- In this problem it is of extreme importance to transmit as much heat as possible through a limited surface area. Carbon -- in the form of hard graphite -- is a conductor for this application. As diamond is expensive -- and metals melt -- Just some "thoughts". Peter Singfield / Belize >Charcoal? Not. That's why your feet can conduct heat away from the burning >surface faster than it arrives in a fire pit and not even blister. > >That's why water cooling the auger doesn't cool the charcoal very well. > >Yours, TOM REED BEF PRESS > >In a message dated 12/7/99 8:04:05 PM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net >writes: > ><< Sorry -- forgot one point -- > > Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat. > > > Peter/Belize > Gasifi >> >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From snkm at btl.net Sun Dec 12 11:14:51 1999 From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991212102322.0075f760@wgs1.btl.net> Dear Tom Reed et al: Thermatomic Carbon sounds incredible! You are discussing the ultimate heat pipe (for high temperature conditions). Kind of a fiber optics of thermodynamics! > Every tire contains 30 % carbon black. That >adds up. I thought it closer to 50%?? 15 years ago I built a small gasifier (12 in high by 6 in diameter) that worked on pieces of car tire. The ash pit accumulated pure carbon black along with fiberglass and steel (the other components of modern tires). Zinc condensed in a lateral arm. What was always surprising was how "clean" the fiber glass and steal was. A simple shaking through a mesh separated everything. I believe Don Cox -- another member of this list -- still has a video of this little machine in operation. Waste tires is the single greatest "resource" that we are ignoring. Designs to utilize this waste have been far to complicated to date -- plus the "Greens" are ready to attack any such attempt -- Peter At 05:59 PM 12/11/99 EST, you wrote: >Dear Tom Taylor et al: > >With all this exchange of info on various forms of carbon, I started to list >a few, then realized a few would be a few hundred. > >THERMATOMIC CARBON is made by decomposing carbon containing materials on a >hot mandrel, such that the graphite crystals are oriented parallel to the >mandrel surface. The graphite crystals are highly anisotropic and conduct >heat only in the plane. So you can heat one side, burn the fingers holding >the edges far away, and not burn the finger 1/2 cm away. Neat stuff for >crucibles (I used to be the chief crystal grower at MIT, so had to know lots >about crucibles etc.) > >The density and form of carbon have a lot to do with the rate of reaction >with steam and CO2. High density forms are very resistant to reaction, even >when incandescent. > >As to why they don't use more carbon, it must be in the top ten chemicals in >sales, but under many names. Every tire contains 30 % carbon black. That >adds up. > >Yours truly, TOM REED BEF > >In a message dated 12/6/99 10:04:54 AM Mountain Standard Time, >LINVENT@aol.com writes: > ><< > Dear Tom Reed et. al., > I once saw a demonstration of a thin layer of graphite or some form of > carbon filament cloth being heated on one side with an acetlyene torch and > being held against a guys hand. Very impressive. Apparently the carbon > would conduct heat in one direction only and would conduct it across the > cloth instead of through it. While working at Sandia National Labs, we used > a laser to excite a sample on a mass spectrometer and had a white substance > left on the surface which we later found out what it was which found out to > be a form of carbon formed under high temperature and vacuum, so with this, > there are innumerable forms of carbon in the universe and one or another may > have properties which fit better than any other material. > I do not understand several things about this such as why carbon based > compounds are not more widely used, why carbon can be exposed to high > temperature conditions which will normally destroy carbon such as steam > activation of carbon to activated carbon which will normally form CO and H2, > and why the carbon heated with an acetlyene torch on one side did not merely > burn? > Any answers? > > Sincerely, > > Tom Taylor >> >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From snkm at btl.net Sun Dec 12 11:14:47 1999 From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal Discussions, where's the STOVES? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991212095951.0075f760@wgs1.btl.net> Tom; >Incidentally, what has happened to WOOD COOKING STOVES for developing >countries, the original subject of STOVES? Have we lost interest? >Frustration? Our Tubo stove is going in to beta testing soon. > >Yours truly, TOM REED BEF >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >Gasification Projects >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml As a member of the 3rd world -- yes -- I am interested!! Unfortunately -- being a relative New Be to this list -- this is the first time I have heard of it? Maybe you could "review" this technology? Peter / Belize Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From JackProot at aol.com Sun Dec 12 11:28:02 1999 From: JackProot at aol.com (JackProot@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Average or maximum service temperature? Density? Message-ID: <0.a3071b2f.25852840@aol.com> In a message dated 99-12-12 01:37:25 EST, you write: << I am interested in finding some very good insulating material (with a very low thermal conductivity) for a kiln. >> Thanks for the list of conductivities in BTU/hr.ft.F Just multiply by 1.73 to get the normal W/m.K :-) For your kiln, YOU should define the maximum temperature. There is no such thing as a universal material. The general principle is to use at least two layers of refractories : - an inside layer, in contact with the material and with strong mechanical properties : high resistance to reactions and attrition, high density and (generally, alas) high conductivity. For instance firebricks with a conductivity of about 0.5 to 1 W/m.K. This is the conductivity in the cold. It increases with temperature to maybe 1.3 to 2.6 W/m.K at 1250 deg.C. Very rough values, as there are lots of bricks around ... Some dense refractory concretes may also be used. - an outside layer of light refractory concrete, between the dense layer and the steel shell. It doesn't have the resistance of the other layer but determines the overall heat loss. See commercial catalogs. As an indication, a typical conductivity would be 0.2 W/m.K in the cold and 0.55 at 1250 deg.C As a general rule : density, strenght and conductivity are linked. Hope it helps. Jacques Proot damned metallurgist Montreal Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From bywateri at southern.co.nz Sun Dec 12 22:04:45 1999 From: bywateri at southern.co.nz (Ian Bywater) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Sewage Sludge Gasification Message-ID: Dear Dr Peacocke Are you dealing with spent sludge after anaerobic digestion production of methane? &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Ian Bywater, B.Sc.(Eng), C.Eng, MIEE, MIPENZ Office: Level 1, 61 Kilmore Street, Christchurch Phone: +64-33-79-63-33 Mobile: 025 205 2234 Fax: +64-33-65-41-46 Email: bywateri@southern.co.nz Home: 118G Panorama Road Christchurch 8008 Aotearoa/New Zealand Phone: +64-33-26-57-58 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Dec 13 11:25:40 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: WOOD GAS vs BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION Message-ID: <0.4ca2995e.25867938@cs.com> Dear All: I am in the process of updating my page and making it more user friendly. I am buying a domain name ($19/mo). I am considering www.woodgas.com as being very close to my prime interest and more generic and likely to be found than my present BEF (Biomass Energy Foundation) name. Comments? Thanks, TOM REED BEF Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From delange at bioelettrica.it Mon Dec 13 11:54:15 1999 From: delange at bioelettrica.it (Henk de Lange) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: O&M services for 14 MWe IGCC plant Message-ID: <000c01bf458b$5056cde0$0c20a8c0@bioelettrica.it> Dear List, Our company is building a biomass-fuelled, 14 MWe integrated gasification combined-cycle plant near Pisa in Italy. Commissioning is envisaged to commence in summer 2001. It is the intention of the company to outsource operation-and-maintenance of the plant and we are looking for companies capable of providing these services. As we are approaching the tendering phase, I would be grateful to hear from companies interested, subscribers to this List perhaps, and to receive suggestions from List members regarding possibly interested companies. I thank you in advance for your effort. Henk de Lange -------------------------------------------------- Henk de Lange Technical Manager Bioelettrica S.p.A. Via Cesare Battisti, 47 56125 PISA ITALY Tel. +39-050-535479 Fax +39-050-535477 e-mail: delange@bioelettrica.it Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml From T.Jayah at devtech.unimelb.edu.au Wed Dec 15 01:43:58 1999 From: T.Jayah at devtech.unimelb.edu.au (Tuan Haris Jayah) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Ultimate Analysis of Rubber Wood Message-ID: <199912150643.BAA24134@solstice.crest.org> Hi there, Could anyone provide me the ultimate analysis of rubber wood? I need it for my gasifier modelling. Thanks Tuan Jayah ------------------------------------------------------------ IDTC Dept. of Civil & Environmental Engineering Faculty of Engineering The University of Melbourne Parkville Victoria 3052 AUSTRALIA ------------------------------------------------------------ From paisley at BATTELLE.ORG Wed Dec 15 10:11:38 1999 From: paisley at BATTELLE.ORG (Paisley, Mark A) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: To the list: I have changed employers from Battelle to FERCO (the licensee of the gasification process) and may now be reached at Future Energy Resources Corporation 3500 Parkway Lane Suite 440 Norcross GA 30092 or: 2720 Bristol Road Columbus OH 43221 (614) 893-7312 fax (614) 459-8579 email address: markpaisley@columbus.rr.com Mark Paisley Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 11:33:20 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <0.f9320c1.25891e01@cs.com> Dear Peter and all: I visited a waste tire gasifier plant in Utah last week. They are sending me a few bushels of "tire crumb". I will test them in our turbo stove. TOM REED In a message dated 12/12/99 9:23:50 AM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net writes: << Waste tires is the single greatest "resource" that we are ignoring. Designs to utilize this waste have been far to complicated to date -- plus the "Greens" are ready to attack any such attempt -- Peter >> Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 15 11:36:18 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Heat Shield Insulation Message-ID: <0.63b5a141.25891eb0@cs.com> Dear Peter and all: Since radiation goes up as T^4 and conduction/convection only as T, it is important to understand the role of radiation in high temperature insulation. The radiant heat flow is Q = A s e T^4 where A is the area, s is the Stefan Boltzmann Coefficient (5.67XT^4/10^12 w/cm2 K^4) and e is the emissivity, ~1 for carbon, ~.05 for silver or gold and T is the absolute temperature in Kelvins.) If a hot body at Tb is surrounded by a radiation shield at Ts, Ts will reach a temperature such that up to half the radiation goes out from the shield and half is returned to the body at Tb. Then a series of radiation shields will reduce heat loss by (2e)^n. A powdered insulation acts like a series of heat shields with very large n, so that particle size is very important. The thermal conductivity of thermatomic carbon or other powdered insulation depends primarily on particle size and not on the thermal conductivity of each particle. (A bit like "equivalent plates" in packed distillation columns.) I have used a spiral of tantalum surrounding a tungsten heating element to grow crystals at 2700C. I also have found that an aluminum foil spiral does a good job of insulating our turbo stove. Live and learn. I'm 179 years old and still learning. (Just kidding). Yours truly, TOM REED BEF In a message dated 12/12/99 9:22:35 AM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net writes: << Carbon -- in the form of hard graphite -- is a conductor for this application. As diamond is expensive -- and metals melt -- Just some "thoughts". Peter Singfield / Belize >> Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From antonio.hilst at merconet.com.br Wed Dec 15 11:57:25 1999 From: antonio.hilst at merconet.com.br (Antonio G. P. Hilst) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: RE: Charcoal as an Insulator? In-Reply-To: <601A55066596D211A7AD00104BC6FB254CE628@catalina.eerc.und.NoDak.edu> Message-ID: <385127E8.C02317E2@merconet.com.br> Dear Darren Schmidt, What about very wet steam, enough water drops to cool the charcoal quickly due to water evaporation which will take a lot of heat off the carbon mass? Does it make sense? Antonio. "Schmidt, Darren" wrote: > From: > Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager > Energy & Environmental Research Center > PO Box 9018 > Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202 > dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu > Ph (701) 777-5120 > Fax (701) 777-5181 > > Thought this discussion was interesting. Here is another 2 cents worth. > I couldn't find any thing telling me how to define wether something is an > insulator or a conductor. According to the dictionary the real definition > would be relative. So in your sense you are right, when comparing > fiberglass insulation k=0.026 to concrete k=0.7, which is 26 times greater, > and comparing concrete to graphite k=2.9. I thought of charcoal as an > insulator because I was thinking in terms of a different case. Charcoal > powder k=0.029. At one time I was looking at heat conductivity and basically > comparing charcoal to steel and water. steel k=26.2, water k=0.343 > > Here is the case: When removing charcoal from the our gasifier it came out > hot (approx. 400 - 1000°F) and needed to be cooled before dumping it into a > super sack or whatever. We were looking at economical ways to cool it down. > One method was just to water jacket augers and vessels. As it turned out > the water jacket wasn't much better than natural air convection, and the > thermal conductivity of charcoal played and important factor. > > Details: The heat transfer of an auger should be better than a stationary > hopper due to the mixing of the particles, however it is not beneficial to > water jacket the auger. Four items effect heat transfer in this problem: 1. > inner film coefficient, 2. TC of charcoal, 3. TC of steel auger wall, 4. > outer film coefficient. (TC - Thermal conductivity) The most limiting factor > is expected to be the outer film coefficient, that is the justification for > a water jacket, however, as it turns out, the TC of the charcoal at a 1/8 > inch layer is equivalent to the outer film coefficient. So, any heat > conductivity gain a water jacket supplies, the charcoal layer remains to > limit along with the inner film coefficient. In this case charcoal was too > much of an insulator. > > Here are some bulk densities and corresponding thermal conductivities > (btu/hr ft F): > Charcoal powder 11.5 lb/ft^3, 0.029, > Graphite solid 93.5 lb/ft^3, 87, > Diamond 151 lb/ft^3, 320. > Carbon black 12 lb/ft^3, 0.012. > > Peter wrote: Charcoal is a very porous medium of carbon. Graphite is not! > And diamonds > even less again! > > Peter wrote: But here are some figures of interest. > > Thermal conductivity - K = btu/(hr)(ft)(deg.F.) > > Material: K > > Carbon, Graphite 2.9 > Chalk .15 > Coke, powdered .11 > Concrete, stone .7 > Cotton .03 > Fire Brick .75 > Glass .3 > Porcelain .83 > Quartz 3.9 > Sawdust .03 > Wool .02 > Stainless Steel 12.0 > Copper 223.0 > > Peter Wrote: So -- if you built the walls of your house out of carbon (as > graphite) -- > they would have to be four times thicker than if they were built of cemment > to give the same insulation factor. And where I come from -- we call bare > cement walls uninsulated!! > > Peter wrote: Or to put it another way -- a graphite wall 100 inches thick > would be > roughly the same insulation factor as a sawdust wall one inch thick. > > Peter wrote:Some heat insulator -- eh?? > > Peter wrote:I was waiting for some one else to catch this -- nobody knew?? > > Peter/Belize > > At 08:08 AM 12/10/99 +1000, you wrote: > > > >My understanding is that the reason people can walk on "hot" coals is that > >the charcoal insulates them from the smouldering remains below. Surely the > >insulating value of carbon is strongly dependant on the form the carbon is > >in. So, perhaps diamonds are good conductors. > > > >James Joyce > > > > > > > > > > > "Schmidt, Darren" > > > "'gasification@crest.org'" > > nodak.edu> > > > Sent by: cc: > > > owner-gasification@ Subject: RE: GAS-L: > Charcoal as an Insulator? > > crest.org > > > > > > > > > 10/12/99 00:46 > > > Please respond to > > > gasification > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Look up the thermal conductivity of carbon and compare to other materials. > >It is an insulator. > > > >Darren D. Schmidt, Research Manager > >Energy & Environmental Research Center > >PO Box 9018 > >Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202 > >dschmidt@eerc.und.nodak.edu > >Ph (701) 777-5120 > >Fax (701) 777-5181 > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Peter Singfield [mailto:snkm@btl.net] > >Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:06 PM > >To: gasification@crest.org > >Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal as an Insulator? > > > > > >Sorry -- forgot one point -- > > > >Charcoal is not an insulator - but an excellent conductor -- of heat. > > > > > >Peter/Belize > >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES > >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > >Gasification Projects > >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES > >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > >Gasification Projects > >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > > > > > > > > > >Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES > >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > >Gasification Projects > >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > > > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES > http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > Gasification Projects > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES > http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > Gasification Projects > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Dec 15 15:20:21 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal In-Reply-To: <199912151757.MAA05536@solstice.crest.org> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991215110701.03303540@mail.teleport.com> Mike, Is this what you're thinking of? http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml If you, Scientific Carbons, Transnational Technologies, Dynamotive and others will help sponsor the lists we'd be happy to build out a Renewable Carbon site at CREST. Sponsorship is $300/year, or $25/mo with a minimum of 4 months. See http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml and send CREST a check. Happy Holidays Tom Miles At 08:57 AM 12/15/99 -1000, Michael Antal wrote: >Dear Tom and stovers: I would be willing to make modest monetary >contributions to a charcoal (renewable carbon) web site. Increasingly, I >think that charcoal (not hydrogen) is the fuel of the future. Happy >holidays! Michael Antal. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225 Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From enecon at ozemail.com.au Wed Dec 15 18:02:25 1999 From: enecon at ozemail.com.au (Colin Stucley) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Ultimate Analysis of Rubber Wood Message-ID: <01bf4751$86907380$eb8a54d2@col-s-pc> We received your email via CREST. Sorry, we cannot assist with rubber tree analysis.  Try CSIRO in Clayton for links to Asian tree research, or the Tropical Products Institute in the UK (I do not have contact details)   We are a  Melbourne based engineering company that is very active in wood to energy.  We would be interested to learn more of your work. Do you have a summary that you can send us?   Kind regards,   Colin Stucley Managing Director 
-----Original Message-----From: Tuan Haris Jayah <T.Jayah@devtech.unimelb.edu.au>To: undisclosed-recipients:; Date: Wednesday, 15 December 1999 5:55 PMSubject: GAS-L: Ultimate Analysis of Rubber WoodHi there, Could anyone provide me the ultimate analysis of rubber wood? I need it for my gasifier modelling. Thanks Tuan Jayah ------------------------------------------------------------ IDTC Dept. of Civil & Environmental Engineering Faculty of Engineering The University of Melbourne Parkville Victoria 3052 AUSTRALIA ------------------------------------------------------------ From enecon at ozemail.com.au Wed Dec 15 21:13:30 1999 From: enecon at ozemail.com.au (Jim Bland) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: New subscriber Message-ID: <007a01bf476b$d876cb80$9c8654d2@jimspc> We would like to introduce ourselves to the gasification, bioenergy and bioconversion list members.  Enecon is a small consulting engineering company in Melbourne, Australia with interests in conversion of biomass, particularly wood and wood wastes, to electricity, charcoal and activated carbon.  Our skills are in identifying opportunities for projects and in selecting suitable technologies for their implementation.   We have subscribed to the Stoves list for some time, and found it interesting and useful, particularly regarding charcoal manufacturing, and look forward to receiving further advice from and contributing to the new lists.   At the moment we are looking for a machine for briquetting of fine wood wastes, such as green sawdust or chipped bark, into small "logs", say 300 long x 80 mm diameter (12 long x 3" diameter).  Input of heat would be needed to evaporate water and to assist the binding action.  Capacity about 1 ton/h. The product would be used as a feed to a gasifier.  Some people have suggested a screw press, but we haven't found anyone who makes anything suitable.  Can anyone help?   We're also looking for units that would process wheat husks and oat hulls in a similar way.   Regards,   Jim Bland Enecon Pty. Ltd. 210 Canterbury Rd., Canterbury 3126 Australia +61-3-9888 6711 (tel) +61-3-9888 6744 (fax)   From vvnk at teri.res.in Thu Dec 16 04:17:29 1999 From: vvnk at teri.res.in (V V N Kishore) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:17 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Volumetric Analysis of Producer Gas Message-ID: Prof.P.D.Grover or Siddhardh Gaur will know the answer as they operated a charcoal gasifier way back in the eighties. >>> 12/03/99 05:12AM >>> Dear Andrew: Good question! I too have gone looking for "charcoal gas" composition in, for instance, our Gen-Gas book without success. Pure carbon gasification of course would follow C + 1/2 O2 ==> CO for which the O/F(wt) ratio is 1.33 and the A/F ratio would be 6.37. This results in a MUCH higher nitrogen content and lower gas energy content. But of course charcoal is not C - lots of volatiles, and in many cases it is being gasified with steam or CO2 as well, or even with producer pyrolysis gas. If you get an7y good analyses, let me know. Yours truly, TOM REED BEF In a message dated 12/1/99 12:07:34 PM Mountain Standard Time, apchick@dmu.ac.uk writes: << Hello, Could anyone help me with a reference for the volumetric analysis of producer gas, when the feedstock for gasification is Charcoal. I have lots of data for wood, e.g. Producer Gas Composition %CO 21.0 %H2 14.5 %N2 48.16 % CH4 1.6 %CO2 9.7 %Water Vapour 4.8 CV Wood = 15 MJ/kg and Producer Gas 5.5 MJ/m3 but no published data for Charcoal. I have experimental data for gasifier efficiency with charcoal, and a theoretical model that predicts volumetric gas composition for charcoal. I would like to compare my results with some published results, can anyone help me with a suitable reference source? A >> Gasification List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive Gasification Projects http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Dec 16 07:13:52 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet Message-ID: <0.c51d3867.258a32b1@cs.com> Mark: Sounds like Burlington must be working if you are going with FERCO. Moving South?? TOM REED In a message dated 12/15/99 8:20:18 AM Mountain Standard Time, paisley@BATTELLE.ORG writes: << I have changed employers from Battelle to FERCO (the licensee of the gasification process) and may now be reached at Future Energy Resources Corporation 3500 Parkway Lane Suite 440 Norcross GA 30092 or: 2720 Bristol Road Columbus OH 43221 (614) 893-7312 fax (614) 459-8579 email address: markpaisley@columbus.rr.com Mark Paisley Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ >> Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From arcate at email.msn.com Thu Dec 16 13:38:39 1999 From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal Message-ID: <002a01bf47f5$f6d86680$0100007f@localhost> Hello Tom Miles & Gasification: Promoting high yield charcoal for power plants, etc.has not generated any green for Transnational Technology. It's brown, not black, but Torrefied Wood costs less to make and contains more of the wood's energy than charcoal. Please see the new Transnational Technology web site www.techtp.com I see Torrefied Wood is listed on http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml under advanced processes. That's great, renewable ideas are good for Renewable Energy. happy holidays, Jim Arcate Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From costaeec at kcnet.com Thu Dec 16 14:45:26 1999 From: costaeec at kcnet.com (Jim Dunham) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: New subscriber Message-ID: <003601bf47fb$aa9f6740$8a65f0d1@default> Our firm specializes in biomass densification of all types. We have several brands and types of 'log-makers', new and used. We don't want to use this forum for trade, but if you would contact us directly we would be glad to make reccomendations for your project. It is quite routine actually, and if your material is under 15% moisture, no additives or binders are needed.   Jim Dunham Environmental Eng. Corp. (EEC) 600 South Woodland Drive Kansas City, MO  USA  64118 816-452-1177  fax-452-6663  
-----Original M essage-----From: Jim Bland <enecon@ozemail.com.au>To: gasification@crest.org ; bioenergy@crest.org <bioenergy@crest.org>; bioconversion@crest.org <bioconversion@crest.org>Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 8:21 PMSubject: GAS-L: New subscriber We would like to introduce ourselves to the gasification, bioenergy and bioconversion list members.  Enecon is a small consulting engineering company in Melbourne, Australia with interests in conversion of biomass, particularly wood and wood wastes, to electricity, charcoal and activated carbon.  Our skills are in identifying opportunities for projects and in selecting suitable technologies for their implementation.   We have subscribed to the Stoves list for some time, and found it interesting and useful, particularly regarding charcoal manufacturing, and look forward to receiving further advice from and contributing to the new lists.   At the moment we are looking for a machine for briquetting of fine wood wastes, such as green sawdust or chipped bark, into small "logs", say 300 long x 80 mm diameter (12 long x 3" diameter).  Input of heat would be needed to evaporate water and to assist the binding action.  Capacity about 1 ton/h. The product would be used as a feed to a gasifier.  Some people have suggested a screw press, but we haven't found anyone who makes anything suitable.  Can anyone help?   We're also looking for units that would process wheat husks and oat hulls in a similar way.   Regards,   Jim Bland Enecon Pty. Ltd. 210 Canterbury Rd., Canterbury 3126 Australia +61-3-9888 6711 (tel) +61-3-9888 6744 (fax)   From tmiles at teleport.com Thu Dec 16 21:08:55 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal In-Reply-To: <002a01bf47f5$f6d86680$0100007f@localhost> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991216181658.036a7780@mail.teleport.com> Where does Convertech fit in the spectrum of wood-to-charcoal? If I remember correctly that's a process that does some drying and some carbonization. The product I saw and smelled years ago was decidedly brown: if it wasn't torrified it was al least frightened. (That's a term my English aunt used to describe searing meat: you didn't sear it you frightened it.) Is Ian still online? Tom At 08:47 AM 12/16/99 -1000, Jim Arcate wrote: >Hello Tom Miles & Gasification: > >Promoting high yield charcoal for power plants, etc.has not generated any >green for Transnational Technology. It's brown, not black, but Torrefied >Wood costs less to make and contains more of the wood's energy than >charcoal. > >Please see the new Transnational Technology web site www.techtp.com > >I see Torrefied Wood is listed on >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml >under advanced processes. That's great, renewable ideas are good for >Renewable Energy. > >happy holidays, > >Jim Arcate > > > > > > >Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225 Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Dec 17 09:14:03 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Ultimate Analysis of Rubber Wood, producer gas etc. Message-ID: <0.9d5f9da8.258ba061@cs.com> Gasifiers all: There is entirely too much emphasis on getting exact analyses of wood, wood-gas etc. Coal varies widely in composition. However, if you look at the atomic ratio C H O analyses of >100 species of biomass in our "THERMAL DATA FOR NATURAL AND SYNTHETIC FUELS", (T. Reed, S. Gaur, Dekker Press, 1998) you will see trivial variations around the generic ratio formula BIOMASS = C H (1.4) O (0.6). High HEAT OF COMBUSTION, 22 kJ/g Low Heat 21 kJ/g Heat of Formation -3.8 kJ/g (This all comes from "Thermodynamics of Gas-Char Reactions" by Ray Desroseirs (now at Texas Tech) in our (SERI/NREL) 1981 "Biomass Gasification: Principles and Technology", Noyes Data Corp., unfortunately out of print.) This is because, (unlike coal), Nature requires cellulose, hemicellulose and lignin in proportions close to 2:1:1 to make biomass. These remarks only apply to biomass on a moisture and ash free basis, these being major variables in practical biomass and easily factored back in. ~~~~~~~~~~~ PRODUCER GAS from biomass also has a relatively narrow composition range, hovering around 50% nitrogen. Unfortunately most measurements are flawed by not including moisture content, so we lose ability to close mass balances. Of course So get busy and start modeling and forget exact analyses. In a message dated 12/15/99 4:17:38 PM Mountain Standard Time, enecon@ozemail.com.au writes: << Hi there, Could anyone provide me the ultimate analysis of rubber wood? I need it for my gasifier modelling. Thanks Tuan Jayah ------------------------------------------------------------ IDTC Dept. of Civil & Environmental Engineering Faculty of Engineering The University of Melbourne Parkville Victoria 3052 AUSTRALIA ----------------------------------------- >> Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Dec 17 09:14:17 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Tom who??? Message-ID: <0.299a6b29.258ba06a@cs.com> Dear ...: There are too many TOMs in gasification/stoves, (Tom Miles, Tom Milne, Tom Taylor, apologies to those missed) so please use last names as well when refering to TOMs ... And, your humble servant, TOM REED BEF Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Dec 17 09:15:17 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Hydrogen vs charcoal Message-ID: <0.85e68a28.258ba065@cs.com> Dear all: As I get older (but not old) I increasingly agree with Mike Antal about charcoal being the real fuel of the real future. In 1970 or so, the so called "hydrogen economy" burst upon us. Initially it was based on the premise that with the then burgeoning nuclear power, electricity would be free, but we would need a storable, transportable fuel for cars etc. (Hydrogenis a great chemical - widely used in many chemical plants, but hydrogen is the most expensive, least storable and transportable of all fuels. The only real world regular use of hydrogen is by glass and quartz blowers, all else is subsidized. Methane is better, propane and dimethyl ether outstanding, liquid hydrocarbons and alcohols are great.) The dreamers seized on the beauty of a fuel so clean that the only byproduct was water and you could drink the exhaust of your car. Personally I have never needed to do that. If I were a plant I would much prefer H2O and CO2 as an exhaust product. Dream on, dreamers (I think they still meet yearly). The DOE is regularly pressurized into subsidizing hydrogen programs to improve the dismal properties of hydrogen as a fuel - expensive to make, hard to store and knocks in engines unless you dilute it (as with producer gas). The only virtue I give hydrogen is that it is the easiest fuel for use in fuel cells, and we hope that lead will disappear with carbonate, phosphate and solid oxide cells which can handle real world hydrogen-carbon mixed fuels. Meanwhile Nature uses sugars as her preferred fuel and we use either hydrocarbons or alcohols for easily transported liquid fuels. ~~~~~~ Charcoal has many drawbacks --- but has been the principal fuel of humans for 20,000 years and we have learned to work around them. Making wood into charcoal typically gives yields of 30% in industrial processes and 15-20% in backward countries where it is still one of the few simple fuel options. So, 70-80% of the wood's energy is wasted in simple charcoal manufacture. Ron Larson (our stove moderator) has long been an enthusiast for charcoal (and our top burning gasifier) because of extensive experience in Africa. Prof. Mike Antal at the U. of Hawaii has developed a process for making o 45% yield charcoal from wood. I hope he will take this opportunity to give us all an overview of where that stands now. What fraction of the original wood energy is captured? Charcoal is a necessary product of wood pyrolysis and pyrolysis is a necessary step in wood gasification and combustion. By properly gasifying the charcoal intermediate during gasification, it is possible to make very low tar and ash producer gas, so we in GASIFICATION need to pay attention to the charcoal. Millenial Cheers, TOM REED BEF In a message dated 12/15/99 1:29:47 PM Mountain Standard Time, tmiles@teleport.com writes: << At 08:57 AM 12/15/99 -1000, Michael Antal wrote: >Dear Tom and stovers: I would be willing to make modest monetary >contributions to a charcoal (renewable carbon) web site. Increasingly, I >think that charcoal (not hydrogen) is the fuel of the future. Happy >holidays! Michael Antal. >> Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From informat at nagpur.dot.net.in Fri Dec 17 10:53:01 1999 From: informat at nagpur.dot.net.in (UNIVERSAL INFORMATICS) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Coconut husk charcoal In-Reply-To: <0.f9320c1.25891e01@cs.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991217214026.007aa100@nagpur.dot.net.in> Can somebody inform me where I can get a report on the status of charcoal from coconut husk please? -Sudheer Bhagade Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From boilrmkr at surfsouth.com Fri Dec 17 12:36:21 1999 From: boilrmkr at surfsouth.com (Gene Zebley) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Tom who??? In-Reply-To: <0.299a6b29.258ba06a@cs.com> Message-ID: <385A7290.D224ACEF@surfsouth.com> O.K. Tom ..... Reedtb2@cs.com wrote: > Dear ...: > > There are too many TOMs in gasification/stoves, (Tom Miles, Tom Milne, Tom > Taylor, apologies to those missed) so please use last names as well when > refering to TOMs ... > > And, your humble servant, > > TOM REED BEF > Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information > http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From markpaisley at columbus.rr.com Fri Dec 17 14:38:58 1999 From: markpaisley at columbus.rr.com (Mark Paisley) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet In-Reply-To: <0.c51d3867.258a32b1@cs.com> Message-ID: <001001bf48c6$fe5e9880$bc8d1a18@columbus.rr.com> Tom, Not at this time. I will still be HQ'd in Columbus. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 7:18 AM Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet > Mark: > > Sounds like Burlington must be working if you are going with FERCO. > > Moving South?? > > TOM REED > > In a message dated 12/15/99 8:20:18 AM Mountain Standard Time, > paisley@BATTELLE.ORG writes: > > << > I have changed employers from Battelle to FERCO (the licensee of the > gasification process) and may now be reached at > > Future Energy Resources Corporation > 3500 Parkway Lane > Suite 440 > Norcross GA 30092 > > or: > > 2720 Bristol Road > Columbus OH 43221 > (614) 893-7312 > fax (614) 459-8579 > > email address: markpaisley@columbus.rr.com > > Mark Paisley > Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information > http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ > >> > Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information > http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ > Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From LINVENT at aol.com Fri Dec 17 14:39:50 1999 From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: More on types of wood. Message-ID: <0.a51fb3b4.258becbe@aol.com> Dear list members, As someone has opened the funny channel, What are the 4 types of wood which are heavier than water? One of them was "terrified" when she hit the water off of Catalina in the dark of night and died. Tom Taylor Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From arcate at email.msn.com Fri Dec 17 14:42:19 1999 From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Hydrogen vs charcoal In-Reply-To: <0.85e68a28.258ba065@cs.com> Message-ID: <009e01bf48c8$08289680$0100007f@localhost> Dear Tom Reed:I promoted charcoal (using Dr. Antal's process) for co-firing with coal in PC power plants for more than 2 years.  See http://www.techtp.com/cofire/  I recall you telling me high yield charcoal might be good for stoves. Now it's a fuel of the future ?Torrefied Wood may be a more practical biomass fuel than high yield charcoal.    From tmiles at teleport.com Fri Dec 17 21:04:38 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Tom who??? In-Reply-To: <0.299a6b29.258ba06a@cs.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991217181428.01cb5230@mail.teleport.com> Tom Reed, This only becomes important when you start answering your own email. It's happened! Happy Holidays. Tom Miles At 09:19 AM 12/17/99 -0500, Reedtb2@cs.com wrote: >Dear ...: > >There are too many TOMs in gasification/stoves, (Tom Miles, Tom Milne, Tom >Taylor, apologies to those missed) so please use last names as well when >refering to TOMs ... > >And, your humble servant, > >TOM REED BEF >Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ ------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com T.R. Miles, Technical Consultants, Inc. 1470 SW Woodward Way Portland, Oregon, USA Tel:(503) 646-1198/292-0107 http://www.teleport.com/~tmiles/ Fax:(503) 605-0208/292-2919 Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From tmiles at teleport.com Sat Dec 18 12:08:35 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal/ Pyromid says send me a bill. In-Reply-To: <199912151757.MAA05536@solstice.crest.org> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991218091411.034a2450@mail.teleport.com> Paul, And Merry Christmas to you! Thanks for your support Regards, Tom Miles At 08:33 AM 12/18/99 -0800, Paul Hait wrote: >Dear Tom, > >Merry Christmas! >Please send me a bill for 2000 for a Charcoal sight. >Paul Hait >President >Pyromid >62029 Fall Creek Loop >Bend, Oregon 97702 >541.318.6361 >www.pyromid.net >phait@hwy97.net > >Our new plant location is in Eugene at Pacific Metal Fab. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Tom Miles >To: ; Michael Antal >Cc: ; ; ; > >Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:33 PM >Subject: Re: charcoal > > > > Mike, > > > > Is this what you're thinking of? > > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml > > > > If you, Scientific Carbons, Transnational Technologies, Dynamotive and > > others will help sponsor the lists we'd be happy to build out a Renewable > > Carbon site at CREST. > > > > Sponsorship is $300/year, or $25/mo with a minimum of 4 months. > > > > See http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml and send CREST a check. > > > > Happy Holidays > > > > > > Tom Miles > > > > > > > > > > At 08:57 AM 12/15/99 -1000, Michael Antal wrote: > > >Dear Tom and stovers: I would be willing to make modest monetary > > >contributions to a charcoal (renewable carbon) web site. Increasingly, I > > >think that charcoal (not hydrogen) is the fuel of the future. Happy > > >holidays! Michael Antal. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > > Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com > > Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198 > > 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208 > > Portland, Oregon, USA 97225 > > > > Stoves Webpage > > http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html > > Stoves List Sponsors, Archive and Information > > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/ > > http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ > > For information about CHAMBERS STOVES > > http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225 Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From phait at hwy97.net Sat Dec 18 12:22:40 1999 From: phait at hwy97.net (Paul Hait) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: No Subject In-Reply-To: <199912151757.MAA05536@solstice.crest.org> Message-ID: <199912181722.MAA17770@solstice.crest.org> <4.2.0.58.19991215110701.03303540@mail.teleport.com> Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal/ Pyromid says send me a bill. Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:33:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-gasification@crest.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: gasification Dear Tom, Merry Christmas! Please send me a bill for 2000 for a Charcoal sight. Paul Hait President Pyromid 62029 Fall Creek Loop Bend, Oregon 97702 541.318.6361 www.pyromid.net phait@hwy97.net Our new plant location is in Eugene at Pacific Metal Fab. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Miles To: ; Michael Antal Cc: ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:33 PM Subject: Re: charcoal > Mike, > > Is this what you're thinking of? > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml > > If you, Scientific Carbons, Transnational Technologies, Dynamotive and > others will help sponsor the lists we'd be happy to build out a Renewable > Carbon site at CREST. > > Sponsorship is $300/year, or $25/mo with a minimum of 4 months. > > See http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml and send CREST a check. > > Happy Holidays > > > Tom Miles > > > > > At 08:57 AM 12/15/99 -1000, Michael Antal wrote: > >Dear Tom and stovers: I would be willing to make modest monetary > >contributions to a charcoal (renewable carbon) web site. Increasingly, I > >think that charcoal (not hydrogen) is the fuel of the future. Happy > >holidays! Michael Antal. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com > Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198 > 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208 > Portland, Oregon, USA 97225 > > Stoves Webpage > http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html > Stoves List Sponsors, Archive and Information > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/ > http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ > For information about CHAMBERS STOVES > http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From tmiles at teleport.com Sat Dec 18 12:22:43 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: FWD:RE: GAS-L:Solid fuel cofiring vs Gasification Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991218093439.031abcc0@mail.teleport.com> From: "Ron Bailey, Sr" Subject: RE: GAS-L:Solid fuel cofiring vs Gasification Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:15:56 -0600 Dear Jim Arcate: Please, has anyone identified or described "Torrefied Wood"? What would be the advantage of cofiring Torrefied Wood or Charcoal over straight close coupled gasification of biomass? Ron Bailey Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ From arcate at email.msn.com Sat Dec 18 14:37:28 1999 From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L:Solid fuel cofiring vs Gasification In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991218093439.031abcc0@mail.teleport.com> Message-ID: <00a401bf4990$89c57280$0100007f@localhost> Hello Ron & Gasification: Ron Bailey asked: >>>Please, has anyone identified or described "Torrefied Wood"? It looks like the "French" did. Please see http://www.techtp.com/torrefied%20wood.htm >>>What would be the advantage of cofiring Torrefied Wood or Charcoal over straight close coupled gasification of biomass? From: http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/cofire_techdesc.html The nearest term low-cost option for the use of biomass is in cofiring with coal in existing boilers. Cofiring refers to the practice of introducing biomass as a supplementary energy source in high efficiency boilers. My TurboExpo98 paper includes a comparison of biomass gasification and biomass charcoal in a Charcoal PFBC power plant, please see http://www.techtp.com/cofire/Co-firing.htm Jim Arcate From: "Ron Bailey, Sr" Subject: RE: GAS-L:Solid fuel cofiring vs Gasification Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:15:56 -0600 Dear Jim Arcate: Please, has anyone identified or described "Torrefied Wood"? What would be the advantage of cofiring Torrefied Wood or Charcoal over straight close coupled gasification of biomass? Ron Bailey Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From w.dejong at wbmt.tudelft.nl Mon Dec 20 02:50:38 1999 From: w.dejong at wbmt.tudelft.nl (w.dejong@wbmt.tudelft.nl) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: combustion of biomass derived LC V gas thesis Message-ID: <9912200856.AA06290@dutw444.wbmt.tudelft.nl> Dear Tom Reed and gasification discussion group members, Recently, a PhD thesis concerning pressurised combustion of low caloric value gas from pressurised fluidised bed gasification of biomass (miscanthus) with hot gas cleanup has been published. The theme of the thesis is modeling and experimental validation of the combustion of LCV gas with emphasis on combustion efficiency and NOx emission. The work has been performed in our laboratory for thermal power engineering at Delft University of Technology. The test rig involved is a 1.5 MWth (max) pressurised fluidised bed gasifier with hot gas filtration unit and downscaled AGT Typhoon gas turbine combustor. We can send the PhD thesis to those of you who are seriously interested. For further questions you can contact me or the author Dr.Ir. P.D.J. Hoppesteyn (peter.hoppesteyn@hoogovens.com). greetings Wiebren de Jong (PhD student) Wiebren de Jong, MSc. TU Delft Faculty of Mechanical Engineering & Marine Technology Mekelweg 2 NL-2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Telephone: +31 15 2786751 Telefax: +31 15 2782460 The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From DAVID.DALTON at saic.com Mon Dec 20 18:49:42 1999 From: DAVID.DALTON at saic.com (Dalton, David) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator? Message-ID: <199912202349.SAA01826@solstice.crest.org> I am interested in learning about the tire gasfier in Utah. Can you provide more details? Where is it located? Who owns/operates it? Who designed and built it? etc. Sincrely, David Dalton -----Original Message----- From: Reedtb2@cs.com [mailto:Reedtb2@cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 9:38 AM To: gasification@crest.org Subject: Re: GAS-L: Re: Charcoal as an Insulator? Dear Peter and all: I visited a waste tire gasifier plant in Utah last week. They are sending me a few bushels of "tire crumb". I will test them in our turbo stove. TOM REED In a message dated 12/12/99 9:23:50 AM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net writes: << Waste tires is the single greatest "resource" that we are ignoring. Designs to utilize this waste have been far to complicated to date -- plus the "Greens" are ready to attack any such attempt -- Peter >> Gasification List SPONSORS, ARCHIVES and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 22 08:54:25 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal Message-ID: <0.5aa83b17.2592334e@cs.com> Dear Tom MILES: Never heard of Convertech, but it sure sounds terrified. Fresh biomass is like C10H14O6 which can be rewritten C10 . 6 H2O . H2. If you look at the charring process on the Reed triangular (molecular) diagram, the removal of each water at higher and higher temperature corresponds to a straight line joining the above composition and CH.2, achieved at about 900C. Torrefied corresponds to removal of about 2 waters, Sea Sweep to removal of 3, barbecue charcoal to 4, metallurgical to 5, activated to 6 (approximately). Wish I had a graduate student and a few $ to make this more quantitative, but that's my scheme. Then we need to look at all of this again at 10 atmosphere pressure to see where Mike Antal charcoal fits. Happy H, C, M TOM REED In a message dated 12/16/99 7:18:05 PM Mountain Standard Time, tmiles@teleport.com writes: << Where does Convertech fit in the spectrum of wood-to-charcoal? If I remember correctly that's a process that does some drying and some carbonization. The product I saw and smelled years ago was decidedly brown: if it wasn't torrified it was al least frightened. (That's a term my English aunt used to describe searing meat: you didn't sear it you frightened it.) Is Ian still online? To >> The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 22 08:54:40 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:18 2004 Subject: GAS-L: combustion of biomass derived LC V gas thesis Message-ID: <0.37d0eadf.2592335b@cs.com> Dear Wiebren: I would very much appreciate receiving a copy of Dr.Ir. P.D.J. Hoppesteyn's thesis. Having operated a 1 ton/d high pressure oxygen gasifier in the early 1980s, I know how difficult pressure feeding is. Do you have any plans to operate on oxygen? (It isn't that much harder.) Please mail to T. Reed, 1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401 USA Thanks in advance.... TOM REED In a message dated 12/20/99 12:58:48 AM Mountain Standard Time, w.dejong@wbmt.tudelft.nl writes: << Dear Tom Reed and gasification discussion group members, Recently, a PhD thesis concerning pressurised combustion of low caloric value gas from pressurised fluidised bed gasification of biomass (miscanthus) with hot gas cleanup has been published. The theme of the thesis is modeling and experimental validation of the combustion of LCV gas with emphasis on combustion efficiency and NOx emission. The work has been performed in our laboratory for thermal power engineering at Delft University of Technology. The test rig involved is a 1.5 MWth (max) pressurised fluidised bed gasifier with hot gas filtration unit and downscaled AGT Typhoon gas turbine combustor. We can send the PhD thesis to those of you who are seriously interested. For further questions you can contact me or the author Dr.Ir. P.D.J. Hoppesteyn (peter.hoppesteyn@hoogovens.com). greetings Wiebren de Jong (PhD student) Wiebren de Jong, MSc. TU Delft Faculty of Mechanical Engineering & Marine Technology Mekelweg 2 NL-2628 CD Delft The Netherlands >> The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 22 08:54:47 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Introducing Ali Kaupp Message-ID: <0.3858cc1a.25923362@cs.com> Dear Tony, et al: Let me introduce my old friend, Ali Kaupp. Ali wrote two of the books on our BEF book list for his PhD with John Goss at U. Calif Davis, about 1983, to whit SMALL SCALE GAS PRODUCER-ENGINE SYSTEMS: A. Kaupp and J. Goss. (Veiweg,1984) Updates GENGAS and contains critical engineering data indispensable for the serious gasifier projects. Ali Kaupp is thorough and knowledgeable. ISBN 1-890607-06-1 278 pp $30 __________ GASIFICATION OF RICE HULLS: THEORY AND PRAXIS: A. Kaupp. (Veiweg, 1984) Applies gasification to rice hulls, since rice hulls are potentially a major energy source - yet have unique problems in gasification. ISBN 1-890607-07-X 303 pp $30_________ In a message dated 12/19/99 10:07:34 PM Mountain Standard Time, eta-pet@eta-team.com writes: They are terrific books and I have recently re-read the first and gotten a lot of good information for our 25 kW gasifier project. Ali has been working around the world with GTZ since then, mosly in biomass projects. He is now relocating to COLORADO and we hope to have lots more interaction with him. So, you know that in the attached letter he is not speaking off the top of his head. Yours truly, TOM REED BEF << Dear Tony, I group like this draws and lives from a diversity of opinions. It would be really bad for mankind if only doomsday specialists and consultant driven ideas prevail. There is room for all of us occupying the same "environmental space". Whenever I attend specialist forums on whatever, solar, or biomass, or gasification, or wind, I regret that there is not a "Harry Parker Factor" around. It would make discussions much more lively. In the absence of such factors, all what we see is experts padding each other shoulders reassuring themselves how great they and their ideas are. It often reminds me of a firm called "ThisWorld Ltd" calling all departments at the end of the year, asking for proposals how to split the next years budget to ensure the survival of the firm. The question is what indicators and bench marks should management take in its decision making process: Allocation efficiency, IRR, NPV, performance of past implemented proposals, or even the indicator "whoever makes the most noise gets the most attention". The latter indicator is how mother nature ensures the survival of many species. Therefore you are as well welcome to make as much noise as possible to get your ideas through. However don't assume that your ideas and visions would pass any rigorous assessment of what is good or bad for "ThisWorld Ltd" for the short term planning of the next 20-30 years. I would only agree that the "Tony Novelli Factor" is also appreciated. But it cannot claim any higher moral ground than the "Harry Parker Factor". The forests of Europe were almost depleted in the 15th century and everybody thought this is the end. We pulled through this crisis alright, as we pulled through so many others before and after. The only theory that has been proving right since mankind has existed is parts of the chaos theory: "A present scenario has to spin out of control before serious efforts are undertaken by mankind to stabilize it and go back to a manageable equilibrium. Either we do it, or mother nature will do it for us in a more drastic way. In other words, my present problem is not that we run out of oil or coal and this all has to be replaced by some other alternative sources in either 10,20,30, 50, or 100 years depending on to whom you listen. Who really cares about the date! We , or better SHELL, ENRON, BP and all the others will be ready when it comes, with all the technologies and money necesseary to pull through. In a recent meeting about CDM and global warming a very enlightening paper from a Mr. Sterling was discussed. This fellow has looked into most calculations and publications from 1985 until 1995 concerning the external costs of coal fired power plants. He came to the conclusion that results varied from 0.1c/kWh to 1000 c/kWh ( a factor of 10,000!!) and there is actually no trend or asymptotic behavior of the results (complete information chaos). One may ask the question why hundreds of researchers get paid for this kind of pseudo-scientific quackery for the last 20 years and to what extend one could come up with rational policy guidelines (carbon tax,etc) penalizing firing of coal based on this total data chaos. A.Kaupp ANovelli@aol.com wrote: >> The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 22 08:55:27 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Hydrogen vs charcoal Message-ID: <0.40de2719.25923389@cs.com> Dear Thomas et al: I fully agree that Wood/Biomass is a better future fuel than charcoal - when we learn to pyrolyse/gasify/combust with good control. I misspoke if it sounded like I was recommending charcoal. Of course the liquid fuel of the future is METHANOL, easily made from most other lesser fuels. And it's sibling, dimethyl ether which has properties almost identical with propane. But first we have to flush the ethanol/ADM people out of the system. Yours truly, TOM REED BEF In a message dated 12/17/99 8:49:42 AM Mountain Standard Time, heat-win@cwcom.net writes: << Dear All, While I agree with what Tom (Reed) says about hydrogen, I don't entirely agree with "charcoal being the real fuel of the real future.". In my amateur opinion wood is the real fuel of the future, either simply chipped, dried and consumed in power stations or commercial scale heating boilers or dried as pieces and burnt in efficient solid fuel appliances. Dried chip are also being pelletized to lower transport costs and enable the uniform product to be delivered by road tanker and blown into consumers storage hoppers. As an alternative, wood can be dried and torrefied, i.e. heated to around 270 C. It then loses around 10% of its dry weight's energy but becomes more versatile in its uses and cleaner burning than wood which has simply been dried. Instead of torrefying it at around 270 C the process temperature can be increased further to convert the wood into charcoal, which further reduces the solid's energy yield. This is fine as long as the pyrolysis gases are efficiently, cleanly and usefully burnt, e.g. to dry additional wood. Apart from bamboo which can be used instead in warm climates, wood is the most abundant of renewable energy sources in terms of dry weight production per acre per annum. Fossil fuels are not renewable and, in terms of human millennia, are fast disappearing. Oil especially is now being consumed at four times the rate at which new reserves are being discovered, see the concluding paragraph of , so unless we sustainably use the forests we've got left and plant far more trees now while developing full utilization of the harvest, including producing liquid fuels from it by fast pyrolysis, only the very rich will be able to stay warm and mobile through the next century. Happy Millennium! Thomas J Stubbing >> The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From w.dejong at wbmt.tudelft.nl Wed Dec 22 09:34:24 1999 From: w.dejong at wbmt.tudelft.nl (w.dejong@wbmt.tudelft.nl) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: combustion of biomass derived LC V gas thesis In-Reply-To: <0.37d0eadf.2592335b@cs.com> Message-ID: <9912221540.AA12799@dutw444.wbmt.tudelft.nl> From: Reedtb2@cs.com Date sent: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:59:55 EST Subject: Re: GAS-L: combustion of biomass derived LC V gas thesis To: gasification@crest.org Send reply to: gasification@crest.org > Dear Wiebren: Dear Tom Reed, > I would very much appreciate receiving a copy of Dr.Ir. P.D.J. Hoppesteyn's > thesis. Having operated a 1 ton/d high pressure oxygen gasifier in the early > 1980s, I know how difficult pressure feeding is. I can agree to that... Do you have any plans to > operate on oxygen? (It isn't that much harder.) We don't have plans for oxygen operation in the near future. We will continue operation performing pressurised bubbling bed gasification of several fuels (woody, herbaceous in combination with older fuels) in combination with experimental hot gas filtration and pressurised combustion studies. Central themes are modeling of the fate of fuel_Nitrogen species and trace elements. Besides we will start small scale circulating fluidised bed experiments and gas turbine operation. with kind regards wishing you a merry christmas and a happy new year, Wiebren de Jong. Wiebren de Jong, MSc. TU Delft Faculty of Mechanical Engineering & Marine Technology Mekelweg 2 NL-2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Telephone: +31 15 2786751 Telefax: +31 15 2782460 The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From LINVENT at aol.com Wed Dec 22 11:52:12 1999 From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: charcoal Message-ID: <0.92bc7e99.25925cf9@aol.com> Dear Tom Reed, We will run our new reactor on straight charcoal and see what the gas analysis is. We have a lot around here from the prior test runs. Tom Taylor The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From onar at netpower.no Wed Dec 22 13:22:49 1999 From: onar at netpower.no (=?iso-8859-1?B?T25hciDFbQ==?=) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: SV: GAS-L: Re: Hydrogen vs charcoal Message-ID: <007a01bf4ca9$3db32d80$c58321d4@oemcomputer> > Apart from bamboo which can be used instead in warm climates, wood is the >most > abundant of renewable energy sources in terms of dry weight production per >acre > per annum. Fossil fuels are not renewable and, in terms of human millennia, >are > fast disappearing. Oil especially is now being consumed at four times the >rate > at which new reserves are being discovered, see the concluding paragraph of > , so unless we sustainably >use > the forests we've got left and plant far more trees now while developing full > utilization of the harvest, including producing liquid fuels from it by fast > pyrolysis, only the very rich will be able to stay warm and mobile through >the > next century. Must hasten to add that unconventional oil such as tarsand is more than abundant and there is enough of this to keep us with oil for centuries. But the imminent peak of traditional oil is correct though. Biomass is a wonderful fuel, especially in developing countries, but also in the west. Today an average citizen in Europe/USA generates about 250 kg of wood waste every year (from building and construction). This means that there is a potential for 60,000 MW of electricity from wood gasification in the West alone. This corresponds to 12% of the coal plants that will be built around the world in the next 20 years. If you in addition include 25 kg of wood waste per capita in the developing world then this corresponds to another 30,000 MW. Today this wood costs societies a lot of money because they are defined as waste. If you make electricity from it instead the cost is much lower, and at the same time society becomes less dependent on fossil fuels. Onar. The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Dec 22 14:12:02 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Bouncing Messages Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991222111217.03a14100@mail.teleport.com> List Members, Don't be alarmed if you have error messages bounce back at you when you post to the bioenergy lists. At this time of year, during school holidays, the email servers (computers) at many organizations get turned off during maintenance outages. The CREST mailer tries to send messages for several hours or days, then gives up. Just delete the error messages and wait for the new milennium. Some institutions (like U Twente, Utrecht, NTNU Trodheim) have changed their email domains without enabling automatic transfer of old addresses. Also, some institutions have simply turned off their mailers to avoid Y2K nuisances. So network and email list administrators should get a Y2K+end-of-the year bonus for handling the extra problems! :-) Happy Holidays Tom Miles Bioenergy Lists Administrator ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225 The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From arcate at email.msn.com Wed Dec 22 14:44:07 1999 From: arcate at email.msn.com (Jim Arcate) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Hydrogen vs charcoal In-Reply-To: <0.40de2719.25923389@cs.com> Message-ID: <003f01bf4cb6$1a4bd740$0100007f@localhost> Dear Gasification et al:Maybe we can take a vote on the "best fuel" of the future ?  My vote for at least the next 20 years.   1.  For countries such as the USA, the EU, etc.   heating your house = solar + natural gas or electric;heating hot water = solar + natural gas or electric;transportation = petroleum fuels;electric power production = coalI think biomass can be used as a replacement for coal primarily via use of low cost wood and agricultural wastes.  Co-firing of biomass with coal in power plant boilers and commercial heating plants is the largest and most economical biopower application.  Biomass can be co-fired as wood chips, fuel pellets, or if appropriate converted to Torrefied Wood or charcoal for co-firing.   2. For developing countries ?  The answers may be the same re "best" but the facts of life are of course different.    For example, from The Regional Wood Energy Development Programme in Asia http://www.rwedp.org/Wood energy (fuelwood and charcoal) is, and will remain, an important source of energy in South and Southeast Asia. In most countries between 20% and 80% of energy demand is met by wood. The share of wood energy is declining because the consumption of conventional fuels, like oil products and electricity, is increasing at a higher rate, and not because the consumption of wood energy is decreasing. This situation applies to all member countries of RWEDP.    Will they use wood in a renewable sustainable manner ? or switch to conventional fuels like "we" did ?    Merry Christmas   Jim Arcate----- Original Message -----From: <Reedtb2@cs.com>To: <heat-win@cwcom.net>; <bioenergy@crest.org>; <stoves@crest.org>;<gasification@crest.org>Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 4:00 AMSubject: Re: Hydrogen vs. charcoalDear Thomas et al:I fully agree that Wood/Biomass is a better future fuel than charcoal - whenwe learn to pyrolyse/gasify/combust with good control.I misspoke if it sounded like I was recommending charcoal.Of course the liquid fuel of the future is METHANOL, easily made from mostother lesser fuels.  And it's sibling, dimethyl ether which has propertiesalmost identical with propane.  But first we have to flush the ethanol/ADMpeople out of the system.Yours truly,TOM REED            BEF From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Dec 22 16:05:27 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: combustion of biomass derived LC V gas thesis In-Reply-To: <0.37d0eadf.2592335b@cs.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991222131511.0347f100@mail.teleport.com> I've posted the summary of the Hoppesteyn thesis "Combustion of Biomass Derived LCV Gas" to http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/LCVgas.htm and linked it to to the Gasification References Page http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml Regards, Tom Miles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225 The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From Fernando_Castro at oxy.com Wed Dec 22 16:10:54 1999 From: Fernando_Castro at oxy.com (Fernando_Castro@oxy.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <51434D3C4F59D311801200508B2C4A6B050309@NFEEXC01> Dear Sr: I have natural gas composition like this: METHANE CH4 : 52.118 ETHANE C2H6 : 8.654 PROPANE C3H8 : 9.781 ISOBUTANE ISOC4H10 : 2.219 NORBUTANE NORC4H10 : 2.516 ISOPENTANE ISOC5H12 : 0.722 NORPENTANE NORC5H12 : 0.329 HEXANE C6H14 : 0.114 CARBON DIOXIDE CO2 : 19.294 NITROGEN N2 : 4.253 CATERPILLAR METHANE NUMBER: 53 STOICH A/F RATIO (V/V): 10.66 LOWER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1032 STOICH A/F RATIO (M/M): 10.80 HIGHER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1145 SPECIFIC GRAVITY (REL TO AIR): 0.986 REAL WOBBE INDEX (BTU/FT3): 1039 PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I CAN RUN the DIESEL ENGINES WITH THIS GAS. AND HOW MUCH DIESEL SAVING CAN WE GET WITH THIS, this engines have 13.5 compression ratio. can we have detonation? , how the combustion takes place of gas diesel mixture inside combustion chamber?. AND DO WE NEED AN SPECIAL KIND OF OIL IN CRANKCASE WHEN RUN WITH THE BI FUEL SYSTEM?. please let me know if i have to change timing of injectors (what degrees before TDC) I will apreciate very much your help in this. Fernando Castro The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 25 09:02:16 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet Message-ID: <0.88bec306.259629aa@cs.com> Dear Fernando: I am not the most expert on this, but your first step should be to investigate converting from diesel to SPARK ignition. Second step might be to lower the compression ratio (extra gasket?). Third do you have much hydrogen sulfide, H2S in the gas? If you can do these things, it is worth considering. What do you mean you "have" this gas? Yours.... TOM REED BEF In a message dated 12/22/99 2:23:05 PM Mountain Standard Time, Fernando_Castro@oxy.com writes: << Dear Sr: I have natural gas composition like this: METHANE CH4 : 52.118 ETHANE C2H6 : 8.654 PROPANE C3H8 : 9.781 ISOBUTANE ISOC4H10 : 2.219 NORBUTANE NORC4H10 : 2.516 ISOPENTANE ISOC5H12 : 0.722 NORPENTANE NORC5H12 : 0.329 HEXANE C6H14 : 0.114 CARBON DIOXIDE CO2 : 19.294 NITROGEN N2 : 4.253 CATERPILLAR METHANE NUMBER: 53 STOICH A/F RATIO (V/V): 10.66 LOWER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1032 STOICH A/F RATIO (M/M): 10.80 HIGHER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1145 SPECIFIC GRAVITY (REL TO AIR): 0.986 REAL WOBBE INDEX (BTU/FT3): 1039 PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I CAN RUN the DIESEL ENGINES WITH THIS GAS. AND HOW MUCH DIESEL SAVING CAN WE GET WITH THIS, this engines have 13.5 compression ratio. can we have detonation? , how the combustion takes place of gas diesel mixture inside combustion chamber?. AND DO WE NEED AN SPECIAL KIND OF OIL IN CRANKCASE WHEN RUN WITH THE BI FUEL SYSTEM?. please let me know if i have to change timing of injectors (what degrees before TDC) I will apreciate very much your help in this. Fernando Castro >> The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 25 09:02:34 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Best 21st Century FUEL vote Message-ID: <0.52d8e606.259629b5@cs.com> Dear List: Jim Arcate suggest a vote on best fuel for the future. If we want to have a serious vote, we need first to define what we mean by "FUEL". Since I am a FUEL CHEMIST, I am sensitive to this question and it is a good one. My Webster Dictionary says "a combustible material used as a source of heat or energy. ... The principal solid fuels are formed from decayed vegetable matter and consist mainly of carbon and hydrogen. They include anthracite coal.... The principal liquid fuels - diesel oil, gasoline and kerosene - are obtained from petroeum. A gaseous fuel, natural gas is obtained usually from subterranean wells and others (coal gas, water gas and producer gas) are manuractured from coal." No mention of wood or biomass, but of course that is a parochial viewpoint. Coal didn't come into wide use until the 19th century, oil until the 20th, natural gas until the 20 1/2th Century. For the preceding 100 centuries of Civilization, it was primarily WOOD. ~~~~~~~~~~~ "FUEL" often implies a processed commodity material. A barrel of oil is NOT a fuel. We have to refine it first. Natural gas at the wellhead is barely a fuel, since it was formerly flared. Natural gas piped to my basement is a TERRIFIC fuel. (It is also a very useful chemical and can be made into other fuels such as gasoline or methanol.) But it requires a $1M/mile pipeline to make it useful. Gasoline and diesel are great fuels. Propane/butane are great fuels. Coal is only a fuel for heat (or power from steam). Wood is barely a fuel, depending - hard to burn if wet and we often have to cut it and prepare it first. It is 2/3 air by volume, so expensive to store and ship. Ag-residues are not fuels - unless you are willing to prepare them for very specific devices taylored to their combustion. Densified Wood (with the air squeezed out and sized to pellets or logs) are a good fuel, easy to ship and use for heat and power, but requiring 100 hp hour/ton. Pellets are becoming commonly available in the U.S. due to the use of pellet stoves. Wood-gas is a fuel, made in a gasifier to run an engine or produce heat for industrial purposes. Syn-Gas is a mixture of CO and H2 and can be made from natural gas, coal or biomass. It is not a fuel in it's own right (although similar to water gas or city gas in the old days), but if can be converted to gasoline, diesel, methanol or methane by well known processes. (Not backyard processes however.) ~~~~~ So, generally by "FUEL" we mean some energy source that has been taylored to an end use. Often we mean LIQUID FUEL when we say FUEL, and that is what we are most worried about as this petroleum age approaches its eventual end. We are looking for a cheap replacement for our beloved gasoline. My favorite alternate liquid fuels are METHANOL which burns clean, is very high octane and can be made from any form of waste biomass (or from coal or natural gas). It currently costs about $.50/gal in bulk. DI-METHYL ETHER - (Even better than methanol, liquid in the storage and distribution, a gas when you burn it. It has the same properties as propane, and is easily made instead of methanol from syn-gas.) For me, ETHANOL is a distant third fuel choice, currently consuming a food (corn in its manufacture and producing lots of dirty water. It was originally subsidized to be an aid to farmers, but has become a major subsidy for ADM instead. (A National Disgrace which Senator McCain has opposed.) The dream of converting cellulose to sugars is still not commercialized after a century of major subsidies. ~~~~~ I became a fuel chemist because I like driving my car and am not sure of future gasoline supplies. So here's a cup of ETHANOL to a smooth transition to whatever renewable fuel we decide on for the 21st Century. Yours truly, TOM REED THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION In a message dated 12/22/99 12:54:20 PM Mountain Standard Time, arcate@email.msn.com writes: << Dear Gasification et al: Maybe we can take a vote on the "best fuel" of the future ? My vote for at least the next 20 years. next 20 years. 1. For countries such as the USA, the EU, etc. heating your house = solar + natural gas or electric; heating hot water = solar + natural gas or electric; transportation = petroleum fuels; electric power production = coal I think biomass can be used as a replacement for coal primarily via use of low cost wood and agricultural wastes. Co-firing of biomass with coal in power plant boilers and commercial heating plants is the largest and most economical biopower application. Biomass can be co-fired as wood chips, fuel pellets, or if appropriate converted to Torrefied Wood or charcoal for co-firing. 2. For developing countries ? The answers may be the same re "best" but the facts of life are of course different. For example, from The Regional Wood Energy Development Programme in Asia http://www.rwedp.org/ Wood energy (fuelwood and charcoal) is, and will remain, an important source of energy in South and Southeast Asia. In most countries between 20% and 80% of energy demand is met by wood. The share of wood energy is declining because the consumption of conventional fuels, like oil products and electricity, is increasing at a higher rate, and not because the consumption of wood energy is decreasing. This situation applies to all member countries of RWEDP. Will they use wood in a renewable sustainable manner ? or switch to conventional fuels like "we" did ? Merry Christmas Jim Arcate >> The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 25 09:02:46 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Biomass (wood chips) Emissions and Air Quality Message-ID: <0.cc040786.259629bf@cs.com> Dear Sten: Glad to find you as my ultimate ESP expert. Here are a few questions and comments of interest: 1) Gasification of biomass produces a gas much easier to clean than the combustion products, since the volume is 1/4 as much and the temperature 1/2 to 1/4 as much, depending on the process. So a) gasify b) clean c) combust 2) It is my understanding that Cristobolite is the real killer in fly ash when it gets to your lungs - not alpha or beta quartz, which I believe are more soluble and so eventually pass out. Is this true? Thanks for your help, TOM REED BEF In a message dated 12/21/99 12:41:23 AM Mountain Standard Time, tmiles@teleport.com writes: << Dear Dwayne S. Berger It is a pleasure to give some comments to your request for information on the emissions of particles from combustion of wood chips. My background. I am an electrostatic precipitator expert, in fact an International Fellow of Electrostatic Precipitation according to a framed diploma in front of me dated November 15, 1984. - I worked about 35 years with the former Flakt company now part of ABB - A few years ago, I wrote on contract from the Swedish Waterpower Board , a report on the distribution of trace metals in ashes from the combustion of wood fuels. - I am presently president of the Swedish Clean Air Society which means that I follow closely the research in Europe on particle emissions from the combustion of biofuels. In Sweden this emission is considered as a threat to the health of citizens comparable to that from particles formed by the combustion of gasoline and diesel fuel. I treat the questions in the order they appear in your message. All values are metric. 1 grain/ S CF equals about 2.28 grams/ normal cum. 1. The emission of particles for various fuels approximately follow their ash content. Approx. concentrations for different fuels in grams per normal cum would be for gas almost zero; oil 0.1; wood chips 2 and coal 10-15. Note the difference in size of the PE between fuels. Whereas those from coal combustion may have a mean grain size of 10 to 15 micron and those from oil combustion will vary a lot with the burner equipment, recent research in Europé indicates that particles from the combustion of wood chips is mainly PM2.5 which means that 50 percent of the particle mass is smaller than 2.5 micron. Research in Denmark shows that particles from firing straw is mainly submicron. The smaller the particle the higher the risk that it will reach the lungs of humans. 2. The higher the temperature in the combustion zone the finer the particle. Thus it could be expected that those from a fludized bed would not be as fine as those from grate firing. 3. The ESP is the preferred equipment for particulate control in Sweden. It is used down to boiler sizes of about 3 MW fuel input. For boilers in the range from about 0.5 to 3 MW mechnical collectors are used. In both cases the collector is usually followed by a condensing unit in order to increase the output of heat from the plant. It usually connected to a distric heating network. An ESP is usually designed for an emission of 30 mg/normal cum and will together with the condensing unit give much less. A mechnical collector and a following condensing unit will give an emission of 70-150 mg/normal cum. 4. Swedish research is presently concentrated on measures to decrease emissions of all types from the about 440.000 small boilers that are installed in one family houses around the country. It is quite a task to promote the use of wood fuels on one hand and on the other ask people to spend a lot of money on their old woodfired boiler in order to decrease emissions of tars and obnoxious gases. But so called accumulators must be installed eventually if emissions from these old type boilers shall decrease. 5. The use of pellets, hopefully manufactured from low ash content wood and not from s.c. recycled wood which should be looked upon as refuse, is promoted also for the very small boilers. ESPs appear to be too costly for boilers in the 0.5 to 2-3 MW range. The cost of a fabric filter is less size dependent but its merits would have to be proven at plants in Sweden. In Denmark and on the continent it is apparently used with satifactory results. As a general comment I suggest that natural gas should be the preferred fuel for small plants and biofuel for larger units. The latter can afford effective control of particulate emissions and the combustion will be better than in small units . I hope this has been of some help. Sten Maartmann Stenmaar@algonet.se Blåhammarv.15 S-132 42 Saltsjö-Boo Tel & fax +46 87 15 22 80 >> The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From vvnk at teri.res.in Sat Dec 25 10:50:54 1999 From: vvnk at teri.res.in (V V N Kishore) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: TERI Silver Jubilee celebrations Message-ID: On this occasion as we enter the new millennium, may I convey to you warm greetings and best wishes for the holiday season. For TERI the new millennium brings added significance because the Institute would be celebrating its silver jubilee during February 18-21, 2000. Seven different conferences are being held on the occasion with a distinguished galaxy of individuals as speakers including Nobel laureates, former Prime Ministers, CEOs of major multinational corporations, media personalities, and eminent academics and researchers. This would be a unique effort to focus on and address issues of relevance to sustainable development in the 21st century, including local, regional and international dimensions. This series of conferences would help in developing a common global agenda for the 21st century that embodies the economic and social interests of people around the world, while at the same time ensuring the sustainability of natural resources and protection of the environment. The conferences will be opened by the Hon'ble President of India, Mr K R Narayanan. Further details are available on the web at www.teriin.org/25years/ or by e-mail addressed to program@teri.res.in Yours sincerely, V V N Kishore -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: jpg00019.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 13281 bytes Desc: "greeting.jpg" Url : http://listserv.repp.org/pipermail/gasification/attachments/19991225/87e0c147/jpg00019.obj From LINVENT at aol.com Sun Dec 26 11:24:58 1999 From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Biomass (wood chips) Emissions and Air Quality Message-ID: <0.ef1ca7e0.25979c9c@aol.com> Dear Sten, It appears as though most of your comments are relating to biomass combustion and not gasification. There is a substantial difference. As an example, ESP's will work in gasification of biomass in the .5-10MW range very well where fabric will not. Retrofitting the hundreds of thousands of small biomass combustors/boilers is The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From LINVENT at aol.com Sun Dec 26 11:28:34 1999 From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Biomass (wood chips) Emissions and Air Quality Message-ID: <0.5cc55c38.25979d75@aol.com> Dear Sten, It appears as though most of your comments are relating to biomass combustion and not gasification use of ESP's. There is a substantial difference. As an example, ESP's will work in gasification of biomass in the .5-10MW range very well where fabric will not. Retrofitting the hundreds of thousands of small biomass combustors/boilers is feasible with ESP's based upon large scale manufacturing to produce an extraordinarily clean gas. Certain geometries of charging systems need to be used. The same with woodburning fireplaces and stoves in this country. Sincerely, Leland T. Taylor P.S.- A prior unfinished version of this may have been sent inadvertently. TT The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From p.m.davies at bigpond.com.au Sun Dec 26 18:07:59 1999 From: p.m.davies at bigpond.com.au (Peter M Davies) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Fuel vote In-Reply-To: <002a01bf47f5$f6d86680$0100007f@localhost> Message-ID: <23095149908917@domain8.bigpond.com> Dear list, The topic raised by Jim Arcate and the response attached from Tom Reed is of particular importance. My interest is BIOMASS as fuels, whether they be processed as solids, liquids or gases; for electricity, heat or transport purposes. If we are talking definitions we have also to talk about categories, scale of operation and end purpose, different fuels will perform differently (or not at all) with particular applications. So bearing this in mind and from my own bias as an agroforester my vote is as follows: 1. Bulk solid fuels (wood or agri residue based) for electricity generation or process heat through boilers, gasifiers etc = Torrefied wood chips, docks or chopped plant material (bagasse, straw etc) - Advantages (smokeless, low moisture, uniform firing characteristics, high retained energy of original feedstock, optimum transport economies, ease and maximum flexibility of feeding into various combustion technologies) 2. Solid fuels for domestic and commercial stoves (can be wood or agri residues) = Torrefied briquettes or pellets - (as for 1. above plus uniform size, product security & customer recognition, ease of packaging, transport damage resistance) 3. Transport - Tom Reeds choice of liquid fuels from biomass digestion or syn gas re processing. All the best for 2000 Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: Reedtb2@cs.com > To: arcate@email.msn.com ; gasification@crest.org > ; stoves@crest.org ; > bioenergy@crest.org ; heat- win@cwcom.net > Date: Sunday, 26 December 1999 1:14 Subject: GAS-L: > Best 21st Century FUEL vote > > > >Dear List: > > > >Jim Arcate suggest a vote on best fuel for the future. If we want to > >have > a > >serious vote, we need first to define what we mean by "FUEL". Since I > >am > a > >FUEL CHEMIST, I am sensitive to this question and it is a good one. > > > >My Webster Dictionary says "a combustible material used as a source of > >heat or energy. ... The principal solid fuels are formed from decayed > vegetable > >matter and consist mainly of carbon and hydrogen. They include anthracite > >coal.... The principal liquid fuels - diesel oil, gasoline and kerosene > >- are obtained from petroeum. A gaseous fuel, natural gas is obtained > usually > >from subterranean wells and others (coal gas, water gas and producer gas) > are > >manuractured from coal." > > > >No mention of wood or biomass, but of course that is a parochial > >viewpoint. Coal didn't come into wide use until the 19th century, oil > >until the 20th, natural gas until the 20 1/2th Century. For the > >preceding 100 centuries of Civilization, it was primarily WOOD. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > >"FUEL" often implies a processed commodity material. A barrel of oil is > NOT > >a fuel. We have to refine it first. Natural gas at the wellhead is > >barely > a > >fuel, since it was formerly flared. Natural gas piped to my basement is > >a TERRIFIC fuel. (It is also a very useful chemical and can be made into > other > >fuels such as gasoline or methanol.) But it requires a $1M/mile pipeline > to > >make it useful. > > > >Gasoline and diesel are great fuels. > >Propane/butane are great fuels. > >Coal is only a fuel for heat (or power from steam). > > > >Wood is barely a fuel, depending - hard to burn if wet and we often have > >to cut it and prepare it first. It is 2/3 air by volume, so expensive to > store > >and ship. > > > >Ag-residues are not fuels - unless you are willing to prepare them for > >very specific devices taylored to their combustion. > > > >Densified Wood (with the air squeezed out and sized to pellets or logs) > are > >a good fuel, easy to ship and use for heat and power, but requiring 100 > >hp hour/ton. Pellets are becoming commonly available in the U.S. due to > >the > use > >of pellet stoves. > > > >Wood-gas is a fuel, made in a gasifier to run an engine or produce heat > >for industrial purposes. > > > >Syn-Gas is a mixture of CO and H2 and can be made from natural gas, coal > >or biomass. It is not a fuel in it's own right (although similar to > >water gas or city gas in the old days), but if can be converted to > >gasoline, diesel, methanol or methane by well known processes. (Not > >backyard processes however.) > > ~~~~~ > >So, generally by "FUEL" we mean some energy source that has been taylored > to > >an end use. > > > >Often we mean LIQUID FUEL when we say FUEL, and that is what we are most > >worried about as this petroleum age approaches its eventual end. We are > >looking for a cheap replacement for our beloved gasoline. > > > >My favorite alternate liquid fuels are > > > >METHANOL which burns clean, is very high octane and can be made from any > >form of waste biomass (or from coal or natural gas). It currently costs > >about $.50/gal in bulk. > > > >DI-METHYL ETHER - (Even better than methanol, liquid in the storage and > >distribution, a gas when you burn it. It has the same properties as > propane, > >and is easily made instead of methanol from syn-gas.) > > > >For me, ETHANOL is a distant third fuel choice, currently consuming a > >food (corn in its manufacture and producing lots of dirty water. It was > >originally subsidized to be an aid to farmers, but has become a major > subsidy > >for ADM instead. (A National Disgrace which Senator McCain has > >opposed.) The dream of converting cellulose to sugars is still not > >commercialized after a century of major subsidies. > > ~~~~~ > >I became a fuel chemist because I like driving my car and am not sure of > >future gasoline supplies. > > > >So here's a cup of ETHANOL to a smooth transition to whatever renewable > fuel > >we decide on for the 21st Century. > > > >Yours truly, TOM REED THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION > > > >In a message dated 12/22/99 12:54:20 PM Mountain Standard Time, > >arcate@email.msn.com writes: > > > ><< > > Dear Gasification et al: > > > > Maybe we can take a vote on the "best fuel" of the future ? My vote for > at > >least the next 20 years. > > > >next 20 years. > > > >1. For countries such as the USA, the EU, etc. > > > >heating your house = solar + natural gas or electric; > >heating hot water = solar + natural gas or electric; > >transportation = petroleum fuels; > >electric power production = coal > > > >I think biomass can be used as a replacement for coal primarily via use > >of low cost wood and agricultural wastes. Co-firing of biomass with coal > >in power plant boilers and commercial heating plants is the largest and > >most economical biopower application. Biomass can be co-fired as wood > >chips, > fuel > >pellets, or if appropriate converted to Torrefied Wood or charcoal for > >co-firing. > > > >2. For developing countries ? The answers may be the same re "best" but > the > >facts of life are of course different. > > > >For example, from The Regional Wood Energy Development Programme in Asia > >http://www.rwedp.org/ Wood energy (fuelwood and charcoal) is, and will > >remain, an important > source > >of energy in South and Southeast Asia. In most countries between 20% and > 80% > >of energy demand is met by wood. The share of wood energy is declining > >because the consumption of conventional fuels, like oil products and > >electricity, is increasing at a higher rate, and not because the > consumption > >of wood energy is decreasing. This situation applies to all member > countries > >of RWEDP. > > > >Will they use wood in a renewable sustainable manner ? or switch to > >conventional fuels like "we" did ? > > > >Merry Christmas > > > >Jim Arcate > >>> > >The Gasification List is sponsored by > >USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ > >and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com > >Other Sponsors, Archives and Information > >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ > >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml > Peter M Davies "Neikah" Colinton NSW Australia 2626 Ph: 02 64 544 009 mobile:0142 833 466 Email: p.m.davies@bigpond.com.au The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From antonio.hilst at merconet.com.br Sun Dec 26 19:49:30 1999 From: antonio.hilst at merconet.com.br (Antonio G. P. Hilst) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet In-Reply-To: <0.88bec306.259629aa@cs.com> Message-ID: <38654FEA.E4C89E1D@merconet.com.br> Ferrnando, I don't have the Gas Engineers Handbook (McGraw or John Wiley) at hand to check but as far as I recall it has a full chapter on gas engines. Antonio Reedtb2@cs.com wrote: > Dear Fernando: > > I am not the most expert on this, but your first step should be to > investigate converting from diesel to SPARK ignition. Second step might be > to lower the compression ratio (extra gasket?). Third do you have much > hydrogen sulfide, H2S in the gas? If you can do these things, it is worth > considering. > > What do you mean you "have" this gas? > > Yours.... TOM REED BEF > > In a message dated 12/22/99 2:23:05 PM Mountain Standard Time, > Fernando_Castro@oxy.com writes: > > << > Dear Sr: > I have natural gas composition like this: > METHANE CH4 : 52.118 > ETHANE C2H6 : 8.654 > PROPANE C3H8 : 9.781 > ISOBUTANE ISOC4H10 : 2.219 > NORBUTANE NORC4H10 : 2.516 > ISOPENTANE ISOC5H12 : 0.722 > NORPENTANE NORC5H12 : 0.329 > HEXANE C6H14 : 0.114 > CARBON DIOXIDE CO2 : 19.294 > NITROGEN N2 : 4.253 > > CATERPILLAR METHANE NUMBER: 53 STOICH A/F RATIO (V/V): > 10.66 > LOWER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1032 STOICH A/F RATIO (M/M): > 10.80 > HIGHER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1145 SPECIFIC GRAVITY (REL TO > AIR): 0.986 > REAL WOBBE INDEX (BTU/FT3): 1039 > > PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I CAN RUN the DIESEL ENGINES WITH THIS GAS. AND HOW > MUCH DIESEL SAVING CAN WE GET WITH THIS, this engines have 13.5 compression > ratio. can we have detonation? , how the combustion takes place of gas > diesel mixture inside combustion chamber?. > AND DO WE NEED AN SPECIAL KIND OF OIL IN CRANKCASE WHEN RUN WITH THE BI FUEL > SYSTEM?. > please let me know if i have to change timing of injectors (what degrees > before TDC) > I will apreciate very much your help in this. > > Fernando Castro > >> > The Gasification List is sponsored by > USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ > and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com > Other Sponsors, Archives and Information > http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml > http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ > http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From graeme at powerlink.co.nz Tue Dec 28 02:34:53 1999 From: graeme at powerlink.co.nz (Graeme Williams) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Message from Internet In-Reply-To: <199912270700.CAA16577@solstice.crest.org> Message-ID: <000401bf5106$1fd57640$eb0e37d2@graeme> Hello Fernando >From the information you quote of the diesel engine specification, it should be possible to dual fuel your engine without modification. Unfortunately the replacement of diesel with natural gas is unlikely to go over about 37% in a fixed load situation, and if you try to increase this amount, may encounter pre-ignition of the gas on the compression stroke. Spontaneous ignition of natural gas has been reported at 1300 degrees F with an octane of 130 which makes it a good high compression fuel. Don't change the injector timing it should be OK. Because you are using diesel fuel, the engine oil should just be a good Series 3 diesel oil which will control any acid formation coming from the gas. The most important thing is to keep an eye on the PH level, and change it at PH4. If your project has any commercial significance, we have two companies in New Zealand who travel the world converting diesel fleets to natural gas. They specialise in buses and taxis, so let me know if their services are required and I'll pass on your details. Regards Doug Williams. > > In a message dated 12/22/99 2:23:05 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > Fernando_Castro@oxy.com writes: > > > > << > > Dear Sr: > > I have natural gas composition like this: > > METHANE CH4 : 52.118 > > ETHANE C2H6 : 8.654 > > PROPANE C3H8 : 9.781 > > ISOBUTANE ISOC4H10 : 2.219 > > NORBUTANE NORC4H10 : 2.516 > > ISOPENTANE ISOC5H12 : 0.722 > > NORPENTANE NORC5H12 : 0.329 > > HEXANE C6H14 : 0.114 > > CARBON DIOXIDE CO2 : 19.294 > > NITROGEN N2 : 4.253 > > > > CATERPILLAR METHANE NUMBER: 53 STOICH A/F RATIO (V/V): > > 10.66 > > LOWER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1032 STOICH A/F RATIO (M/M): > > 10.80 > > HIGHER HEATING VALUE (BTU/FT3): 1145 SPECIFIC GRAVITY (REL TO > > AIR): 0.986 > > REAL WOBBE INDEX (BTU/FT3): 1039 > > > > PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I CAN RUN the DIESEL ENGINES WITH THIS GAS. AND HOW > > MUCH DIESEL SAVING CAN WE GET WITH THIS, this engines have 13.5 compression > > ratio. can we have detonation? , how the combustion takes place of gas > > diesel mixture inside combustion chamber?. > > AND DO WE NEED AN SPECIAL KIND OF OIL IN CRANKCASE WHEN RUN WITH THE BI FUEL > > SYSTEM?. > > please let me know if i have to change timing of injectors (what degrees > > before TDC) > > I will apreciate very much your help in this. > > > > Fernando Castro > The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From MRETOH at aol.com Tue Dec 28 20:07:44 1999 From: MRETOH at aol.com (MRETOH@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Mine Gas Message-ID: <0.62aa0f14.259a8a02@aol.com> Gentlemen, We have a stream of mine gas which we believe is commercially exploitable because of the coincidental location of heavy industry in our area. The analysis of this gas indicates a v/v presence of CO2 of some 40%. Does anyone have experience in capturing such a stream for commercial exploitation. W.M. Flanagan MrEtoH@aol.com The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Dec 29 12:06:31 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: No Attachments to CREST Email Please Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991229091917.03121f00@mail.teleport.com> List Members, As browsers and email software have improved we receive more graphic posting to the list. We have a (40,000 character) limit on the size of messages that can be posted to CREST lists (bioenergy, stoves, gasification, digestion, bioconversion). This enables people with low bandwidth systems to send and receive email easily. It also prevents most unsolicited email (SPAM) and large attachments from reaching the lists (it all comes to me). This policy has kept the lists manageable. Please respect the limitations and do not post attachments to the list. Instead, refer in your messages to attachments, graphics or documents posted on your web site, or, if you prefer, send the attachments to me and I will post them on the Bioenergy web pages. Thanks and Happy New Year Tom Miles Bioenergy Lists Administrator ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225 The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From rmiller at fcschaffer.com Wed Dec 29 18:08:09 1999 From: rmiller at fcschaffer.com (FCSchaffer/Robert Miller by way of Tom Miles ) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal Production Information Message-ID: <199912292308.SAA07662@solstice.crest.org> Do you have any data on equipment or process to produce charcoal from sugar cane residue, bagasse, which would be an appropriate technology to install in conjunction with an existing sugar factory? My firm is presently managing a sugar factory in Kenya and we have an interest to utilize excess bagasse to make charcoal for use in the local economy. This not only reduces our disposal cost but is a benefit in reducing deforestation in the area adjacent to the mill. The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Dec 29 18:18:17 1999 From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Charcoal Production Information In-Reply-To: <199912292308.SAA07662@solstice.crest.org> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991229152746.0325caa0@mail.teleport.com> Robert, We've just started a Renewable Carbon web page at CREST to other this kind of information. Look at the advanced processes section on the page http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml and the other CREST links listed below. What size is the sugar factory in Tonnes of Cane per Day? Regards, Tom Miles At 06:08 PM 12/29/99 -0500, FCSchaffer/Robert Miller wrote: >Do you have any data on equipment or process to produce charcoal from sugar cane residue, bagasse, which would be an appropriate technology to install in conjunction with an existing sugar factory? My firm is presently managing a sugar factory in Kenya and we have an interest to utilize excess bagasse to make charcoal for use in the local economy. This not only reduces our disposal cost but is a benefit in reducing deforestation in the area adjacent to the mill. > >The Gasification List is sponsored by >USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ >and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com >Other Sponsors, Archives and Information >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198 1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 605-0208 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225 The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From graeme at powerlink.co.nz Thu Dec 30 01:35:57 1999 From: graeme at powerlink.co.nz (Graeme Williams) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Re: Fuel vote In-Reply-To: <199912270700.CAA16577@solstice.crest.org> Message-ID: <003b01bf5290$383922a0$e20e37d2@graeme> Dear Gasification Colleagues As Tom R has pointed out, we have quite a few different fuel options available to us in the years ahead. No doubt market forces and convenience will determine which will be the major transitional fuel, for sure others will evolve given enough time, and preferably someone else's money to develop. Gasification will remain the focus of my attention as in my opinion, there is plenty of important work still to be done to realise the potential of this technology. To put reason into the 24 years I have spent "playing" with gasification, I have a photo taken in Papua New Guinea which I drag out occasionally. I have given it a title "Another Day in Paradise" and I have put it in the Fluidyne archive for you to access. http://members.xoom.com/whitools/ I would like to take this opportunity to wish you all an interesting and prosperous New Year. Doug Williams Fluidyne Gasification. The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Dec 31 09:50:31 1999 From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:19 2004 Subject: GAS-L: Reducing Global Warming Guilt Message-ID: <0.5ae349fa.259e1df7@cs.com> Dear CRESTERS: We hear so much about global warming that we feel guilty without being able to do much. Maybe the enclosed article will help. I am also attaching the article as an MS Word document. Yours for an even better century. Dr. Thomas B. Reed The Biomass Energy Foundation ~~~~~~~~ REDUCING GLOBAL WARMING GUILT Thomas B. Reed Golden, CO Advanced climate thinkers have warned us that Humans may be heating up Earth's climate by increasing the carbon dioxide content of our atmosphere while we use up the remaining supplies of petroleum and other fossil fuels. The world is called upon to reduce CO2 emissions so as not to change our climate. The advanced thinkers warn that continuing on this path could lead to melting of the ice caps, a rise in the sea level and a major climate change. I feel guilty when I drive to the library to read about Global Warming. Unfortunately for the climate experts, major climate change is Earth's norm They find it difficult to separate Human climate change (Anthropogenic) from those that occur naturally. We had a mini ice age in 1700 and no one is blaming the Pilgrims. Let us think what "climate" we would like to preserve. We are urged to prevent global warming in order to preserve our present climate. Our Civilization has developed in the 13,000 years since the end of the last ice age which started 117,000 years ago, and I presume this is the "climate" we are being urged to keep by reducing our greenhouse emissions. However, we are overdue for another ice age, and they can come on fast. The ice covering much of Europe and Canada-US was over 3,000 feet deep 20,000 years ago. So, taking a longer view, our current climate includes 100,000 years of heavy glaciation. Earth has progressed from much too hot for life, 4 billion years ago; lush and great for life during the coal and oil ages; but gradually cooling as more and more carbon was deposited underground as our fossil fuels. Ultimately this carbon depletion has led to our current cycle of glaciers/warming. In the 60 Million years before this we had the climate that permitted the development of mammals, deciduous trees and flowers. The 1 °F temperature rise this century attributed to Human activity certainly gives us some responsibility for our climate, but Ours is not the only hand on the thermostat. So far, the long range prediction of climate is probably no better than the prediction of the weather next month. The tilt of Earth's axis, distance from the Sun, Volcanic eruptions, meteorite collisions and the paths of ocean currents all play a role in determining our climate, and it has varied by tens of degrees in many centuries. Our current decisions may (or may not) determine which climate our children and grandchildren will have. Maybe He put Humans here to get some of the carbon back into circulation. There have been noble attempts to limit our consumption of fossil fuels (President Bush signed the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change in 1992 and the Kyoto Protocol of 1997). These contrast with our actual practice of using more and more oil with SUVs and trucks becoming our typical mode of transportation. So we all feel guilty. No one is in a position to tell whether the climate "experts" are correct, but they have given us a load of guilt for driving our cars and heating our homes. The global warming question may be moot, since it is widely predicted that "cheap oil" will be exhausted in 10-30 years at which point other renewable energy forms will be developed. Man proposes and God disposes. However, if you are looking for practical ways to feel virtuous in the 21st century, consider that the oil we don't waste today can be used by you, your children and grandchildren to maintain a moderate lifestyle - or even to warm our huts if the next glacier arrives on schedule. ~~~~~~~~ (Dr. Tom Reed is the president of the Biomass Energy Foundation and a former Professor at the Colorado School of Mines. He can be reached at 303 278 0558 or Reedtb2 @ cs.com. Two recent articles on Climate appeared in the Scientific American December 1999 issue, page 100 and the January 2,000 issue, p. 68.) 615 words. The Gasification List is sponsored by USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/ and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com Other Sponsors, Archives and Information http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml