BioEnergy Lists: Gasifiers & Gasification

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September 2000 Gasification Archive

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From priesz at netline.cl Sat Sep 2 17:53:17 2000
From: priesz at netline.cl (Paul Riesz)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: METHANOL
Message-ID: <200009022153.OAA01274@secure.crest.net>

Cc: gasification@crest.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

To Tom Reed:
In a message to Kermit Schlansker you said:
"Methanol is easily made from natural gas, coal, wood, or waste - any
carbonaceous material - using current technology for less than $1/gal
(equivalent to 1/2 gas gasoline). (We developed a high pressure oxygen
biomass gasifier at SERI/NREL 1980-88)".

This answers some questions I sent earlier to Kermit, but I should be
grateful if you would give me a few more details on a subject, in which you
are so knowledgeable:

1. What % of the cost of $US 1 per gallon is due to raw material (wood)?
2. How many gallons could be produced from one cord of hardwood (density
about 0,6 oven dry)?
3. What is the smallest gasifier capable to produce methanol competitively
and what would it cost?
4. What license fee would have to be paid for building one of these gasifiers?

Here are the reasons for my questions:
In Chile this process might be of both immediate and long-term interest:
1. I am trying to promote the timberstand improvement system of managing
Chilean native forests, which involves removing a lot of misshapen, sick or
too closely spaced trees, in order to benefit the growth of well shaped and
healthy trees, that are to be preserved. This material can be used for
firewood and chips, but at some locations there is no market for such
materials, but there would be a market for methanol for the trucks and
tractors of lumber companies. In some other locations the rapid growth of a
bamboo variety prevents the regeneration of valuable hardwood trees. In
both cases the raw material could be figured at a very low cost, since its
removal would benefit the forests. - Please do not get me wrong; I am not
liable to make any money on such a scheme, but it might help to convince
wood-lot owners to manage their holdings more sustainably.
2. If the oil crunch predicted in the ROE group materializes in the near
future, METHANOL might be one of the more promising substitutes. Raw
material from native forests is relatively abundant and there are extensive
areas, where trees could be planted, though the most productive ones have
already been used for this purpose (Chile has a law, providing subventions
for such plantings).

Thanks in advance and best regards Paul Riesz

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From tmiles at teleport.com Sat Sep 2 20:39:20 2000
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Gasification+Engine vs Boiler for Refuse Fuels
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000902174035.01f3d760@mail.teleport.com>

I've been asked if anyone has done a recent techno-economic comparison
between two methods of generating power from refuse, MSW or RDF at the 6
MWe scale:

a. Gasification with an IC engine, and
b. Direct combustion with a steam boiler and turbine.

Efficiency? Operation? Emissions? Costs? Pros? Cons?

Tom
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. Miles tmiles@teleport.com
Technical Consultants, Inc. Tel (503) 292-0107/646-1198
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax (503) 292-2919/646-4406
Portland, Oregon, USA 97225

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From donaldp at marick.co.uk Sun Sep 3 07:22:40 2000
From: donaldp at marick.co.uk (donaldp)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: gasification plant
In-Reply-To: <00b501bfc44e$97fe93c0$75c110c8@pc-tel>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000903121918.0079d760@195.102.240.34>

Please send fuel analysis etc.
full name and address. telephone / fax number.

Will send Mass balance - Energy balance - economics + payback

Donald C. Patrick
At 21:34 22/05/00 -0300, you wrote:
> I would like to know where could I find some information on the
>typical cost of a 2Ton/Hour biomass gasification plant for electric energy
>production. What should be the typical payback, the operation costs and
>the cost of the produced Kw-hr? Thank you Carlos Cabanillas Argentina

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From LINVENT at aol.com Sun Sep 3 12:51:01 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Gasification+Engine vs Boiler for Refuse Fuels
Message-ID: <11.8b2b364.26e3db45@aol.com>

Tom Miles,
In response to your question about the comparison between boiler and IC
engine, we have done this and also gas turbine operation. It has been
primarily used for specific questions which clients ask and specific projects
and for this reason, it has been maintained as confidential. IC engines by
far are a vast improvement over the other processes, capital cost,
efficiency, cost of operation.

Tom Taylor
Thermogenics Inc.
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From snkm at btl.net Sun Sep 3 17:19:26 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Condensing; Steam Power and V8 Engine Conversion Help
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000903150903.008e19f0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Or use a condenser and cooling tower from a large commercial building that
is being demolished -- for the air conditioning system. They come in all
sizes -- to much bigger than you would need. Are extremely well designed
for this purpose.

Usually easily found in any large city.

Peter Singfield

Belize

At 11:15 PM 8/30/00 -0500, you wrote:
>radiators can handle strong vacuums. unless you have a cooling source below
>80 degrees, dont expect a vacuum. you might try water injecting on hard
>loads. it is noisy, but it works, and keeps the vacuum pump primed.
>skip
>
>
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
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>
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From snkm at btl.net Sun Sep 3 17:19:41 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Condensing; Steam Power and V8 Engine Conversion Help
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000903151449.008e58b0@wgs1.btl.net>

At 12:30 PM 8/31/00 -0500, you wrote:
>PETE
>use the hot steam for the cylinder jacketing. always. you want to be as
>close to adibiatic expansion as possible. it means a lot on the bigger
>stuff. vacuum is mandatory on uniflows if you want efficiency. the idea is
>to get all the old steam out so it wont cool the new steam. however, in the
>real world, the steam is used in some kind of processing and therefore,
>engine/turbine efficiency is irrelevant. and if youwant to expand 5-1 in a
>cylinder, you better have 200+superheat.
>skip

I really wonder about this. To me it would be better to "close" insulate
both cylinders and cylinder head to impede temperature "gradients -- in the
unaflow design.

That means use a good insulation applied directly to the outer cylinder
walls. Such as porous ceramic. The cylinder head would also be just a thin
slab of iron -- coated with say 1/2 inch of insulation.

Think about it -- the actual cycle is fast -- so just how much heat per
cycle could be lost with this basic insulation in place?

How many btu per stroke?? Very little!

You have a smaller, lighter, motor this way.

Peter
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From snkm at btl.net Sun Sep 3 17:43:49 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: BIOMASS TO HYDROGEN VIA PYROLYSIS AND REFORMING
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000903153209.008e5180@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Hello Cordner;

At 07:56 AM 8/28/00 +0100, you wrote:
>Dear Group,
>
>For those interested in the steam reforming of biomass, here are a couple
>of references. I suggest contacting Dr. Stefan Czernik at NREL for further
>information. I think that they have added polymers to their list of
>feedstocks.
>
*****snipped*******

Very interesting --

Here is an Url that will lead you in a new direction regarding "H20"
reforming of carbons to gasses.

http://refining.dis.anl.gov/oit/toc/h2proc_8.html

Putting biomass in water of a temperature of 600 C and a pressure of 5000
psi appears to accomplish these same ends.

For me -- a simple device to build. Well -- one of these days -- maybe.

By the way -- this certainly looks like a good solution (pun intended) to
making alcohol from sugar cain.

Peter Singfield.

*****************************************************

Hydrogen Production/Recovery/Storage

DOE (Government) Funded

--------------------------------------------------------------------

HYDROGEN PRODUCTION FROM HIGH-MOISTURE CONTENT BIOMASS IN
SUPERCRITICAL WATER
[IMAGE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

PROJECT DESCRIPTION
This project is investigating the use of water as the medium for
converting biomass to gas. Previous work showed that low
concentrations of a model compound (glucose) and various wet biomass
species could be completely gasified in supercritical water at 600C
and 34.5 MPa (5,000 psi) after 30 seconds. But higher concentrations
of glucose resulted in incomplete conversion. For this reason, flow
reactors have been constructed that accommodate packed beds of
catalyst. The goal is to identify active catalysts for steam
reforming biomass slurries in supercritical water. Carbon-based
catalysts promote complete conversion (>99%) of high-concentration
glucose (up to 22% by weight) to a hydrogen-rich synthesis gas. The
catalyst is stable over a period of several hours, is inexpensive,
and exists in a wide variety of forms. The gaseous products
(primarily hydrogen, CO2, and methane) separate from the water upon
cooling at the reactor exit and are then available for storage or
further processing at a pressure of 34.5 MPa.
PARTICIPANT

University of Hawaii

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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sun Sep 3 20:27:33 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: saw dust
Message-ID: <3f.9d1cfed.26e44627@cs.com>

Tom et al:

We (humans) should all hang our collective heads in shame at the incredible
waste of combustible fuels still going on. The only excuse is that oil is
(was?) so cheap and easy.

Your comments on pellets or briquettes for boilers and stoves are right on.
We have been using them in our gasifiers and wood-gas stovs and they are a
GREAT fuel. Dense, feed easily and clean.

Patience. The oil if going, going, ...... gone. (2050?)

TOM REED

In a message dated 8/28/00 2:44:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
tmiles@teleport.com writes:

<<

I calculate roughly 35 tons per month worth about $3500 as bagged fuel
pellets, or $3600 as an oil or gas replacement, say $40,000 per year plus
the cost of disposal that you wouldn't pay. On a one shift basis it would
produce (at 400 lb/hr) about 3 MMBtuh which would do a lot of heating.

The cost of a heating system might be $20-40,000 for a one year payback.

Someone who supplies these systems should jump on here. Am I on the right
track?

It looks to me like a good downdraft gasifier or sawdust burner (remember
the Conifer?) with a boiler would be just right for this application.

Tom


At 02:47 PM 8/28/00 -0400, Helen wrote:
>just to continue , we are located in brooklyn and basically we are
>looking to solution how to get rid of it.we have approximately
>5 40yards containers a month.since there is no heating in winter
>time it would make sense to burn it and simply use it to heat
>our factory.what will be involved to do that? or do you have better
>idea.this is all mahogany saw dust.we are manufacturing mahogany windows
>and doors.please feel free to call me to discuss it in greater
>detail.718/251-8060 helen
>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sun Sep 3 20:28:45 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: The inverted downdraft gasifier
Message-ID: <4e.a9dbc69.26e44619@cs.com>

Dear Vern and Gasification:

I am wrestling with these same questions and hope to bring out eventually a
Volume II of "Survey of Biomass Gasificatin - 2000" (or 2001 or 2010,
whenever I get it all sorted out). Meanwhile, I am writing subsections
covering exactly what Vern has asked about.

I have said that the superficial velocity (throughput = gas produced/area, in
m/s, m3/m2-sec or hour or Btu or whatever) is critical in determining the
output and behavior of any gasifier. Equally important is the air-fuel ratio
for gasification. The ideal air/fuel is 1.5 kg air/kg biomass (dry basis)
and this produces the lowest tar and charcoal, but the lowest (5 MJ/nm3)
energy content in the gas. SV and AF vary together in ways that I am putting
together now.

PRODUCER GASIFICATION:
At at high SV, temperatures in the flaming pyrolysis zone can exceed 1000C
and this can gasify the charcoal as it is produced. Any excess heat in the
gas is immediately converted to gas by passing through whatever charcoal
remains, and so can give a final char yield well bewlow 5%. I describe this
operating point as the "sweet spot" of the gasifier. As one drops below this
intensity you get more tars and char.

PYROLYTIC GASIFICATION:
At the other end of the SV and AF spectrum, (low SV, <0.05 and low A/F, <0.5)
we enter what I would like to call "pyrolytic gasification" in which we
produce lots of charcoal (10-25%) and tar (0.1-1%) and a rich gas (20
MJ/nm3?). The charcoal is valuable and the tar can be burned if you are only
interested in heat applications, but for powering engines etc. the tar is a
great nuisance.

Since most people don't characterize their gasifiers in these terms, it is
necessary to do some calculations to know where you are in this SV-AF
spectrum.

If this is less than crystal clear, my apologies. My understanding increases
daily as I work with the thermodynamics, kinetics and the actual gasifiers we
are building and testing.

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF/CPC

In a message dated 8/30/00 9:17:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
VHarris001@aol.com writes:

<< n a message dated 08/25/2000 9:31:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Reedtb2@cs.com writes:

> ~~~~~
> In the conventional downdraft gasifier air is drawn by a blower or engine
> from nozzles (Imbert starting 1938) or from the top of a cylindrical tube
> (stratified downdraft downdraft, starting at SERI, 1980). It first meets
> unburned biomass and burns it in the process I call "flaming pyrolysis".
> (Flaming combustion is like the flame of the match; flaming pyrolysis is
> similar, but has limited air.) This produces a gas containing
considerable
>
> CO, H2 and CH4, but also CO2 and H2O at temperatures of 1000-1500C and
> produces from 5-25% charcoal, depending on the superficial velocity of
the
> gases.
>
> These HOT gases pass over the resulting charcoal and are further reduced
by
> the charcoal to producer gas. If the superficial velocity is about 0.4
m/s
>
> and the gas has a heating value of 5 MJ/nm3, the output will be 2 MJ/m2-s
or
>
> 2,000 kWth/m2, or 0.2 kW/cm2, an amazing throughput.
>

Hi Tom (Reed),

I continue to struggle with the definition of "gasification." I note that
you again discuss pyrolysis gases, which are further reduced by passing
through a bed of hot charcoal, resulting in "producer gas."

I was wondering if you would take the time to compare and contrast
"pyrolysis
gases" and how they are produced versus "producer gases" and how they are
produced.

Is a bed of charcoal, or other carbon bed, *required* in order to generate
"producer gas" in a gasifier? If so, does that imply that energy sources
that do not produce a bed of charcoal when "gasified" (or contain little
moisture available for the water-gas reaction) are not actually being
"gasified?" That is to say, if there is no charcoal present for reduction
to
occur, is the resulting gas still considered "producer gas?"

If the off-gas isn't considered producer gas, then isn't there actually a
considerable degree of reduction and/or water gas reaction occuring (highly
endothermic, correct)? On the other hand, if the off-gas is considered
producer gas, then isn't the charcoal bed somewhat superfluous to
gasification?

Finally, your continued research into the subject indicates that superficial
velocity is of considerable importance in producing tar-free producer gas.
However, if the material being gasified does not produce a bed of charcoal,
will an appropriate superficial velocity still result in crack tars and thus
a low tar content pyrolysis gas?

Thanks for your continued contributions to gasification!

Best,

Vernon Harris >>
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From 146942 at email.msn.com Sun Sep 3 20:59:55 2000
From: 146942 at email.msn.com (skip goebel)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Gasification+Engine vs Boiler for Refuse Fuels
Message-ID: <008901c0160c$12680740$a743183f@oemcomputer>

Tom, from what I have seen of Oregon, every large sawmill has been utilizing
waste wood at those levels you are seeking. It is well past the study phase
I would think. Wont the big companies give up any data?
Skip

 

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From tmiles at teleport.com Sun Sep 3 21:46:14 2000
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Gasification+Engine vs Boiler for Refuse Fuels
In-Reply-To: <008901c0160c$12680740$a743183f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000903183136.00dce100@mail.teleport.com>

Skip,

Oregon is not the area of interest in this case. I'm looking for practical
experience. We do have an 11 MWe waste to energy plant here that has been
operating for many years. We find that proponents of gasification systems
offer small sizes at what appears to be quite low costs. My question is can
the gasiifer-engine be built and operated for competitive costs and can it
meet environmental cass for NOx and other criteria pollutants.

Way back when, Erik Rensfelt and Bill Blackadder at TPS (formerly Studsvik)
http://www.tps.se/egen/egen.html ran their CFB gasifier for nearly 1000
hours on refuse derived fuel firing a dual fueled diesel. Their opinion at
that time was that they would never meet the NOx standards. What has changed?

Tom

At 07:56 PM 9/3/00 -0500, skip goebel wrote:
>Tom, from what I have seen of Oregon, every large sawmill has been utilizing
>waste wood at those levels you are seeking. It is well past the study phase
>I would think. Wont the big companies give up any data?
>Skip
>
>
>
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
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From tmiles at teleport.com Sun Sep 3 21:52:57 2000
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Gasification+Engine vs Boiler for Refuse Fuels
In-Reply-To: <11.8b2b364.26e3db45@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000903184359.00dce490@mail.teleport.com>

Thanks Tom,

Are you willing to part with an estimate of relative costs between systems?
If a 2 MWe RDF fired boiler costs $6 million and generates power at a gross
cost (not including offsets for tipping fees) for $.06/kWh, what is the
equivalent power cost for a IC engine? Are there any operating at that
scale in the world? Where? What are the typical emissions limits for a
plant of that scale?

Your small Modular ESP looks quite interesting. Will it capture heavy
metals from Refuse gas? What happens to the chlorine?

I belive the TPS plants at Greve, Italy total 15 MWe. And the RDF is quite
clean.

Thanks

Tom

At 12:50 PM 9/3/00 -0400, LINVENT@aol.com wrote:
>Tom Miles,
> In response to your question about the comparison between boiler and IC
>engine, we have done this and also gas turbine operation. It has been
>primarily used for specific questions which clients ask and specific projects
>and for this reason, it has been maintained as confidential. IC engines by
>far are a vast improvement over the other processes, capital cost,
>efficiency, cost of operation.
>
>Tom Taylor
>Thermogenics Inc.
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
>Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
>http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
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From snkm at btl.net Sun Sep 3 22:46:28 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Steam Reforming and fuel cells
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000903204149.008d94e0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Ok folks;

Twist your brains around this one.

It is a huge site -- Last Update: 04/03/00.

http://www.fetc.doe.gov/products/power/fuelcells/overview.html

I am posting a few excerpts. This page is huge! I believe this list can
find a large amount of discussion in here. They are talking over all
efficiencies of 60 to 85%!!!

They have plenty of these plants in development -- with many prototypes --
some in the mega watt ranges -- operating for years now.

I do believe this is where the action is heading. I have often stated --
steam reforming and fuel cells. Thought it was a rare concept - until this
evening.

What really turns me on is that the waste heat from the fuel cell
(exothermic) is sufficient for the steam reforming needs (endothermic)

http://www.fetc.doe.gov/products/power/fuelcells/overview.html

Peter Singfield

Belize

****************snip******************
Other Solid Fuel Processing: Solid fuel other than coal can also be
utilized in fuel cell systems. For example, biomass and RDF
(Refuse-Derived-Fuels) can be integrated into a fuel cell system as
long as the gas product is processed to meet the requirements of the
fuel cell. The resulting systems would be very similar to the coal
gas system with appropriate gasifying and cleanup systems. However,
since biomass gas products can be very low in sulfur, the acid
cleanup systems may simply consist of large sulfur polishers.
***************snip*********************

***************snip**********************
The conceptual fuel cell/gas turbine powerplant system configures the
high-temperature, conventional MCFC or SOFC fuel cell with a gas
turbine, air compressor, combustor, and metallic heat exchanger.
Synergistic effects of the combined fuel cell/gas turbine lead to
electrical conversion efficiencies of 72-74 percent (LHV) for systems
under 10 MW. A typical system size is 1-10 MW.

Compressed air and fuel pass through a metallic gas-to-gas heat
exchanger (recuporator) to recover heat from the combustion product
gases leaving the gas turbine. The heated fuel and air streams pass
into the anode or cathode fuel cell compartments, respectively, of
the fuel cell where the electrochemical reactions take place. Fuel
cell exhaust gases are mixed and burned, raising the turbine inlet
temperature while replacing the conventional combustion section of
the gas turbine system. Expansion of the fuel cell exhaust gases
through the gas turbine provide an inexpensive means for recovery of
the fuel cell waste heat. It is effective utilization of this heat
that provides the higher cycle efficiency.
***************snip**********************

***************snip**********************
Molten Carbonate Fuel Cells (MCFCs) are now being tested in
full-scale demonstration plants. They offer higher
fuel-to-electricity efficiencies, approaching 60 percent. MCFCs
operate at higher temperatures, around 650C (1,200F), making them
candidates for combined-cycle applications, in which the exhaust heat
is used to generate additional electricity. When the waste heat is
used for co-generation, total thermal efficiencies can approach 85
percent.

The two small businesses which are the leading U.S. MCFC developers
are Energy Research Corporation (ERC)[17] in Connecticut and M-C
Power Corporation (MCP)[18] in Illinois.

Solid Oxide Fuel Cells (SOFCs) are currently being demonstrated in a
100-kilowatt plant. This fuel cell technology offers stability and
reliability of all-solid-state ceramic construction. High-temperature
operation, up to 1,000C (1,800F), allows more flexibility in the
choice of fuels and can produce very good performance in
combined-cycle applications. Adjusting air and fuel flows allows the
SOFC to easily follow changing load requirements. Like MCFCs, SOFCs
approach 60 percent electrical efficiency in the simple cycle system,
and 85 percent total thermal efficiency in co-generation
applications.

Currently, DOE supports one SOFC developer--Westinghouse Electric
Corporation (WEC)[19].

Internal Reforming[20]
In a conventional fuel cell system, a carbonaceous fuel is fed to a
fuel processor where it is steam reformed to produce H2 (as well as
other products, CO and CO2 for example), which is then introduced
into the fuel cell and electrochemically oxidized. The Ni reforming
catalyst of the process is extremely sensitive to trace amounts of
sulfur in the feed gas.

The internal reforming molten carbonate fuel cell and the high
temperature solid oxide fuel cell, however, eliminates the need for a
separate fuel processor for reforming carbonaceous fuels. Steam
reforming of CH4 is typically performed at 750 to 900C, thus the
process appears practical for high temperature fuel cells. By closely
coupling the reforming reaction and the electrochemical oxidation
reaction within the fuel cell, the concept of the internal reforming
MCFC is realized. The internal reforming MCFC eliminate the need for
the external fuel processor with its ancillary equipment. The
internal reforming MCFC approach provides a highly efficient, simple,
reliable and cost effective alternative to the conventional MCFC
system. Development in the U.S. and Japan is continuing.

There are two alternate approaches to internal reforming molten
carbonate cells: indirect internal reforming (IIR) and direct
internal reforming (DIR). In the first approach, the reformer section
is separated, but adjacent to the fuel cell anode. This cell takes
advantage of the close coupled thermal benefit where the exothermic
heat of the cell reaction can be used for the endothermic reforming
reaction. Another advantage is that the reformer and the cell
environments don't have a direct physical effect on each other. A
disadvantage is that the conversion of methane to hydrogen is not
promoted as well as in the direct approach. In the DIR cell, hydrogen
consumption reduces its partial pressure, thus driving the methane
reforming reaction, to the right. The operating concept for the
molten carbonate fuel cell design depicts one developer's approach
where IIR and DIR have been combined.

Methane is a common fuel utilized in internal reforming MCFCs, where
the steam reforming reaction:
[IMAGE]
occurs simultaneously with the electrochemical oxidation of hydrogen
in the anode compartment.

The steam reforming reaction is endothermic, with delta H = 53.87
kcal/mol, whereas the overall fuel cell reaction is exothermic. In an
internal reforming MCFC, the heat required for Reaction is supplied
by the heat from the fuel cell reaction, thus eliminating the need
for external heat exchange which is required by a conventional fuel
processor. In addition, the product steam from can be used to enhance
the reforming reaction and the water gas shift reaction to produce
additional H. The forward direction of the reforming reaction is
favored by high temperature and low pressure, and thus an internal
reforming MCFC is best suited to operate < five atmospheres pressure.
********************snip************************

 

 

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From 146942 at email.msn.com Sun Sep 3 22:51:37 2000
From: 146942 at email.msn.com (skip goebel)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Gasification+Engine vs Boiler for Refuse Fuels
Message-ID: <004c01c0161b$ac329ca0$743d1b3f@oemcomputer>

why study the economics from an electrical generation point of view.
there is many other higher profit things to do with the heat instead of
making electricity.
I think the study should go in the direction of available value added
products.
skip

 

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From snkm at btl.net Sun Sep 3 22:54:56 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Basic Steam Reforming Process
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000903204832.008e1710@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Here is one method of steam reforming.

Peter Singfield / Belize

From:

http://www.r-t-o-l.com/learning/steamref.htm


--------------------------------------------------------------------

THE STEAM REFORMING PROCESS COMBINED WITH PSA (LINDE):

pressure swing adsorption system (PSA)

1. Desulfurisation
The feedstock is heated together with a small stream of
recycled hydrogen and flows through a desulfurisation unit
consisting of reactors filled with hydrogenation catalyst and
zinc oxyde. The latter absorbs the hydrogen sulfide from the
feed.

2. Reformer feed superheating
The desulfurised feedstock is mixed with steam, and then
superheated by fluegas.

3. Reformer
The feed is reformed in heated high-alloy reformer tubes,
which are packed with nickel-based catalyst. Basically the
following reactions take place:
1. CnHm + nH2O ==> nCO + (n+m/2)H2
2. CO + 3H2 ==> CH4 + H2O
3. CO + H2O ==> CO2 + H2

4. Process gas cooler
After leaving the reformer, the gas is cooled from approx.
850 C to 350 C by generating steam.

5. HT CO-shift conversion
The CO in the reformed gas is converted to H2 and CO2 in
order to increase the Hydrogen yield. This is accomplished by
allowing reaction 3 to take place over a high temperature
CO-shift catalyst.

6. Heat recovery and cool down
After further cool down,whereby the feedstock and the boiler
feed water are pre-heated, and after separation of process
condensate, the process gas flowsto the purification unit.
The process condensate is normally recycled thereby reducing
the BFW consumption.

7. H2 purification
A pressure swing adsorption system (PSA) with 3 to 10
adsorbers, the number dependent on the actual size of the H2
plant and other operational aspects. The process gas passes
through regenerated adsorbers, thus being purified up to
99.9... 99.999 vol. % H2. Meanwhile, the other adsorbers are
regenerated isothermally using a controlled sequence of
depressurisation and purging steps.

8. Fuel system
Swings in the composition of the tail gas produced in the
PSA-unit are levelled out by means of a mixing drum, thus
making the gas suitable as fuel in the radiant section of the
reformer furnace. For supplementary fuel, feedstock of fuel
gas is used.

9. Flue gas duct
The flue gas from the radiant section is used for preheating
the reformer feed, the combination of air, and generating
superheated steam before passing to atmosphere via fan and
stack.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

RTOL - May 2000

*** References from this document ***

[orig] http://www.r-t-o-l.com/learning/steamref.htm
[1] http://www.r-t-o-l.com/learning/steamref.htm
[2] http://www.r-t-o-l.com/learning/index.htm
[3] http://www.r-t-o-l.com/index.htm
[4] mailto:info@r-t-o-l.com
[5] http://www.r-t-o-l.com/learning/steamref.htm#top

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From dparsons at pacificcoast.net Mon Sep 4 11:55:18 2000
From: dparsons at pacificcoast.net (David C. Parsons)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: gasification plant
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000903121918.0079d760@195.102.240.34>
Message-ID: <006301c01688$a3d6caa0$156656d8@u3l9v2>

Donald:

I'd appreciate receiving the same information as Carlos--mass balance,
energy balance, economics of a 2 MW gasifier system, using rice husks (12%
MC by weight) as the fuel.

Thanks very much.

David C. Parsons

Riverside Consulting
2727 Phillips Road
Sooke, British Columbia
Canada V0S 1N0
Phone: (250) 642-2658
Fax: (250) 642-2659
Email: dparsons@pacificcoast.net

----- Original Message -----
From: donaldp <donaldp@marick.co.uk>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 4:19 AM
Subject: Re: GAS-L: gasification plant

> Please send fuel analysis etc.
> full name and address. telephone / fax number.
>
> Will send Mass balance - Energy balance - economics + payback
>
> Donald C. Patrick
> At 21:34 22/05/00 -0300, you wrote:
> > I would like to know where could I find some information on the
> >typical cost of a 2Ton/Hour biomass gasification plant for electric
energy
> >production. What should be the typical payback, the operation costs and
> >the cost of the produced Kw-hr? Thank you Carlos Cabanillas Argentina
>
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
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>

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From tmiles at teleport.com Mon Sep 4 12:48:43 2000
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Gasification+Engine vs Boiler for Refuse Fuels
In-Reply-To: <004c01c0161b$ac329ca0$743d1b3f@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000904092646.00dd3550@mail.teleport.com>

Skip,

Other uses for heat are obviously part of the comparison. Some waste to
energy plants in Europe generate only high temperature water for heating.

Electrical generation is an important product of the IC engine which is a
significant component of the system costs.

Operating costs for refuse to energy systems in the US are usually highly
subsidized by tipping fees and operator arrangements with municipalities. A
gasification system would not be immune to the high costs of converting
waste. Gasification requires more fuel preparation, hence more labor and
capital, than a mass burn plant. A lot of the cost has to do with the
composition of the fuel. So I'm interested in knowing the experience of
people who have operated gasifiers or energy plants with municipal waste or
refuse derived.

Tom

 

At 09:48 PM 9/3/00 -0500, skip goebel wrote:
>why study the economics from an electrical generation point of view.
>there is many other higher profit things to do with the heat instead of
>making electricity.
>I think the study should go in the direction of available value added
>products.
>skip
>
>
>
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
>Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
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>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

Thomas R Miles tmiles@teleport.com
T R Miles, TCI Tel 503-292-0107
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax 503-292-2919
Portland, OR 97225 USA

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From jdmurphy at cit.ie Tue Sep 5 07:54:31 2000
From: jdmurphy at cit.ie (Jerry D Murphy)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L:
Message-ID: <20000905114514406.AAA443@mail.cit.ie@bc-a264l-9501.cit.ie>

 

We have funding for a graduate of civil/mechanical/chemical enineering to
study for a Masters Degree in Engineering at Cork Institute of Technology,
(CIT), in Cork, Ireland.

The research project is entitled "A systems analysis of energy from waste in
Ireland." The project will investigate wastes including:

sewage sludge;
MSW;
agricultural slurry;
wood waste.

The waste conversion technologies include:

anaerobic digestion;
incineratin;
gasification;
pyrolysis.

The project is a desk top study to establish the feasibility of producing
energy from waste in Ireland. In particular we wish to establish the
feasibility of waste to energy centres that employ both biological and
thermoconversion techniques. What transport distances would facilitate
economic production, what mix of wastes is optimal, what would the effect of
waste substitution. Linear programing and other economic/systems analysis
tools will be employed.

The funding is in the region of £6 500 pa. Some tutorial/lecture hours may
be available to boost earning potential . The project is in conjunction with
University College Cork, Ireland.

Contact jdmurphy@cit.ie

JD Murphy BE MEngSc CEng MIEI MCIWEM
Chartered Engineer
Lecturer in Civil & Structural Engineering
Phone 353 21 326313 Work
353 21 770905 Home

Fax 353 21 345244

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From marshbro at mcbridebc.net Mon Sep 11 23:25:20 2000
From: marshbro at mcbridebc.net (Phil Marsh)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Gasifier Plans / Blueprints
Message-ID: <002701c01c69$f25b7e00$074fb5d0@marsh>

 

Hello Tom and All:

I'm a new reader of your list and would like to
say I really appreciate the huge amount of good info being passed around on the
subject of gasification.

Some background..... I own a farm and small
hardwood sawmill in the interior of British Columbia. For the past three years I
have been doing a paper study of how I could use the waste wood from my mill to
produce electricity and heat. We are a prime canidate for a small co-gen system
as we currently produce power using a diesel gen-set, we produce a large amount
of hog fuel (waste wood chips and sawdust), and we have a well equiped
fabrication shop. Economically speaking, it costs us money to buy diesel, it
costs us money to remove the wood chips from site, and we have an oportunity
cost of not expanding into the value added sector due to lack of consistant and
reasonably priced energy.

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Sep 12 07:41:55 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Alcohol Fuels - & Methanol vs Ethanol
Message-ID: <ae.a6df29a.26ef7060@cs.com>

Dear Ron Larson et al:

RON WROTE:

One of the joys of this volunteer coordinator position is getting
surprise e-mails or phone calls from interesting people. This is to report
on such a phone conversation with Dr. C. A. Stokes - a retired (in Florida)
Chem Eng. graduate of MIT, with a long history of work in areas like ours.
C.A. (or "Andy") (<andystokes@aol.com>) has agreed to jump in to add to and
correct the brief summary I am about to give on the subject of cook stoves
for developing countries that are based on methanol - a subject I do not
recall having previously been raised on this list.

AS HEAD OF THE GASIFICATION LIST, I'LL SECOND THAT THOUGHT. I GET LOTS OF
INTERETING AND INFORMATIVE CALLS.

Andy got into this business after using an "Origo" (sp?) that used
ethanol - manufactured by Electrolux (world's largest supplier of kitchen
equipment (?) - headquarters in Switzerland) - and being very impressed by
its performance. But he thought methanol would offer improvements in cost
and performance ("smokeless") and eventually (after visiting Switzerland)
convinced Electrolux. He and Electrolux are now well along in offering
this in large scale production - expected (2-burners) to cost about 25 c
per day (for about 1 liter) - with an initial cost of about $50.
Representatives will be at our conference in Pune in November to
demonstrate the stove. I believe Andy said that initial consumer-test
reaction has been positive.

AS ANYONE WHO HAS USED A FONDUE POT KNOWS, METHANOL AND ETHANOL BURN MUCH
CLEANER THAN KEROSENE. AS BOY SCOUTS WE USED "STERNO" CANS OF GELLED
ALCOHOLS FOR COOKING. I BELIEVE STERNO HAS CONTAINED EITHER METHANOL OR
ETHANOL AT VARIOUS TIMES AND PLACES. THE OLD CAN IN MY GARAGE DOESN'T HAVE A
METHANOL WARNING, SO MAY BE ETHANOL.

Eventual production of the methanol could be from biomass sources
(and therefore justifies discussion on this list) - but initially Andy is
promoting the use of methanol coming from natural gas. I have been
spending a lot of time looking at natural gas issues for the last several
months (in order to promote renewable alternatives in the US where the
natural gas price has more than doubled - to $5.00/MMBTU - in the last
year). But Natural Gas pricing is unlike that of oil (relatively uniform
world-side) - as very little is transported by ship as liquified natrual
gas (LNG). There is a world-wide glut with lots of low-price gas that is
unfortunately often flared for lack of a market.

So - this new stoves topic is offered up for comment.

A1. Does this list see this as a good alternative to wood-fired
cook-stoves?

SOUNDS VERY INTERESTING AND I'LL LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THE STOVE AT THE PUNE
CONFERENCE. ALCOHOLS ARE MORE CONVENIENT AND CLEANER THAN WOOD STOVES, BUT
ALSO MORE EXPENSIVE. (OUR NEW TURBO STOVE GASIFIERS WOOD AND THEN BURNS THE
GAS WITHOUT ODOR.)

OF COURSE ALCOHOL STOVES ARE PROBABLY OLDER THAN KEROSENE/GASOLINE STOVES,
SINCE BOTH ETHANOL AND METHANOL WERE CHEAP AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY BEFORE
BIG OIL GOT CRANKED UP. MANY CARS RAN ON ALCOHOL TOO. THE PRIMUS ALCOHOL
STOVE HAS BEEN THE FAVORITE OF BACKPACKERS MOST OF THE CENTURY AND CAN USE
EITHER METHANOL OR ETHANOL.
~~~~~
THE FINAL PREFERENCE BETWEEN METHANOL AND ETHANOL WILL ALWAYS BE DECIDED IN
PART ON COST AND AVAILABILITY. FOR NOW PETROLEUM FUELS ARE AS CHEAP OR
CHEAPER THAN ALCOHOL FUELS. METHANOL IS CURRENTLY AROUND $.50/GAL IN BULK
AND ETHANOL AROUND $1.25 IN BULK. (METHANOL HAS HALF THE ENERGY PER GALLON OF
GASOLINE AND ETHANOL HAS 2/3 THE ENERGY OF GASOLINE.)

A2. Is there agreement with Andy that methanol should be the fuel
of preference?

I HEARTILY SECOND THAT - IN THE LONG RUN, AND WILL GET LOTS OF CRITICISM FROM
OUR SHORT RUN "ETHANOL'" LIST AT CREST. HERE'S THE LONG/SHORT ARGUMENTS.

HUMANS HAVE BEEN MAKING ETHANOL FROM SUGAR AND STARCH FOR OVER 10,000 YEARS -
MOSTLY VERY DILUTE (<12% WITH MOST YEASTS). THE ARABS DISCOVERED
DISTILLATION ABOUT 1000 AD AND MORE CONCENTRATED BEVERAGE ALCOHOLS
PROLIFERATED. IN THE 1800s THE FRENCH BEGAN PIONEERING THE USE OF ETHANOL
FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES, MOSTLY AS SOLVENTS.

DURING WWII ETHANOL WAS WIDELY USED AS A BLEND FUEL. (UP TO 10% MOST PLACES
AND THEY LOVED IT; UP TO 30% IN fRANCE AND THEY HATED IT.) BECAUSE OF ITS
HIGH OCTANE IT WAS ALSO USED IN SMALL PLANES. UNFORTUNATELY BLENDS REQUIRE
100% ETHANOL AND DISTILLATION CAN ONLY PRODUCE 95% WITHOUT HAVING TO "BREAK
THE AZEOTROPE", WHICH ADDS EXPENSE.

EARLY IN THE 19TH CENTURY IT WAS DISCOVERED THAT THE "SMOKE" GENERATED DURING
CHARCOAL MAKING CONTAINED ALL SORTS OF CHEMICAL GOODIES LIKE ACETIC ACID,
ACETONE AND ... METHANOL (1.5% FROM HARWOODS, 0% FROM SOFWOODS). AS A
BYPRODUCT OF CHARCOAL MAKING THESE CHEMICALS WERE QUITE CHEAP AND COULD BE
USED COMMERCIALLY.

SO, DEPENDING ON PLACE, PRODUCTION AND PRICE, THE TWO ALCOHOLS HAVE BEEN USED
MORE OR LESS INTERCHANGABLY.
~~~~~~~~
IN 1923, THE CHEMISTS AT I G FARBEN DISCOVERED A CATALYST THAT COULD MAKE
METHANOL (50%) YIELD FROM COAL GASIFICATION, AND THAT METHANOL WAS MUCH
CHEAPER THAN METHANOL FROM WOOD DISTILLATION (WOOD ALCOHOL) OR ETHANOL FROM
CORN/POTATOES/STARCHY AND SUGARY PRODUCTS.

I LIKE TO DRIVE MY CAR AND I PLAN TO LIVE A LONG TIME. IN 1973 I BECAME
INTERESTED IN THE QUESTION OF WHAT FUELS WE WOULD USE AFTER OIL WAS GONE. I
LOOKED AT THE ALCOHOLS - CLEAN BURNING, WELL ESTABLISHED FOR COOKING AND
MOTOR FUELS.

AT THAT TIME ETHANOL WAS $1.25/GAL AND METHANOL $0.15/GAL. I FIGURED THE
DIFFERENCE REFLECTED REALITIES OF PRODUCTION.
~~~~~
IN 1980 FARMERS DISCOVERED THAT THEY COULD MARKET EXCESS CORN AS THE ETHANOL
BLEND FUEL "GASOHOL". THEY COULD ALSO IN PRINCIPLE PRODUCE THE ETHANOL ON
THE FARM. WOW! SERI (NOW NREL) WROTE THE BOOK "FUELS FROM FARMS" IN 1980,
AND I HAVE A COMPLIMENTARY BOUND COPY SINCE I WAS ONE OF THE WRITERS.

YES, FARMERS CAN MAKE FUEL ON THE FARM, BUT ARCHER DANIEL MIDLANDS CAN MAKE
IT CHEAPER AND HAS SCARFED UP MOST OF THE SUBSIDIES EVER SINCE.
~~~~~
METHANOL FROM NATURAL GAS IS MUCH CHEAPER THAN ETHANOL. METHANOL FROM WOOD,
CORN STOVER, TRASH ETC. IS POTENTIALLY MUCH CHEAPER THAN ETHANOL FROM CORN,
BUT REQUIRES GASIFICATION, COMPRESSION AND A CATALYST. WE BUILT THE GASIFIER
AT NREL IN THE 1980s AND PRODUCED 1 GALLON OF METHANOL AT GREAT EXPENSE.

BUT UNTIL THE NEED BECOMES MORE CRITICAL WE'LL CONTINUE TO MAKE METHANOL FROM
NATURAL GAS.

SINCE CELLULOSE IS A POLYMER OF THE SUGARS NEEDED TO MAKE ETHANOL, SCIENTISTS
HAVE BEEN WORKING ON "CRACKING THE CELLULOSE NUT" SINCE ABOUT 1910. PLANTS
WERE BUILT DURING WW I AND WW II AND SHUT DOWN ASAP AFTER THE WAR.
SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN PROMISING CHEAP ETHANOL FROM CELLULOSE BY ENZYMATIC OR
ACID HYDROLYSIS FOR 100YEARS. MAKES GREAT RESEARCH FUNDING. I HOPE I LIVE
LONG ENOUGH TO SEE THEM SUCCEED AND BECOME COMMERCIAL. A NEW VENTURE IS
ANNOUNCED WTIH GREAT FANFARE EVERY YEAR, COLLECTING ENTHUSIASTIC INVESTORS.
I HAVE BECOME CAUTIOUS.

Andy - I am sure I have not done justice to your proposed optimum approach.
Would you please (as a newly enrolled "stoves" member) add whatever you
wish to make this story more complete? In particular, also :

B1. Could you explain the technical reasons (molecular structure,
etc) for prefering methanol over ethanol (or other liquid options such as
seed or other oils).

B2. What technical changes were necessary as a successful
ethanol-based product was converted over to methanol?

B3. As there is much interest in this list on biomass rather than
fossil resources, under what future local gas price, plantation expertise,
and conversion conditions would you expect to see a shift to biomass-bsed
methanol? Could it be soon in some countries?

B4. Any special words aobut lighting systems with methanol?

B5. Why are liquid alcohol fuels better than gels?

And thank you very much for your call, which was a lot of fun.
Good luck in your efforts on developing better cook stoves. This is an
interesting new contribution to our list discussion of alternatives>

Ron

THIS IS A DEBATE THAT WILL CONTINUE THROUGH MOST OF THE E21ST CENTURY. MAN
PROPOSES AND GOD DISPOSES.....

CHEERS, TOM REED BEF/CPC
The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From mnorris at dekaresearch.com Tue Sep 12 10:00:14 2000
From: mnorris at dekaresearch.com (Mike Norris)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Alcohol Fuels - & Methanol vs Ethanol
Message-ID: <71308BA96577D3119B1300A0C9AC08AD85F46D@exchange1.dekaresearch.com>

I have a general question about gasification for a household appliance
such as a cookstove. I appreciate that
gasification will produce a clean smokeless flame that will have much
lower toxic emissions than a
traditional wood fire. However, I am quite concerned about CO poisoning
in the event of a flame-out or after the
burner is shutdown.

The evolved gases are 10%+ CO and extremely toxic. Extensive
precautions would be taken in a laboratory if
personnel were working with such a toxic gas. I've read that some 13
people died in the first 2 years of W.W.II in Sweden from
using wood gasifiers and a couple of researchers died in the eighties.
What can be done to build a real product that would gasify biomass
without
exposing consumers to CO poisoning? One has to consider malfunctions of
the hardware and foolish use by the consumer. Is it reasonable to
advocate gasification for general public use or should it's use be
limited to industrialized settings with trained operators?

respectfully

Mike Norris

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Reedtb2@cs.com [SMTP:Reedtb2@cs.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 7:41 AM
> To: GASIFICATION@crest.org; STOVES@CEST.org; BIOENERGY@crest.org;
> ETHANOL@crest.org; BIOFUELS@crest.org
> Subject: GAS-L: Alcohol Fuels - & Methanol vs Ethanol
>
> Dear Ron Larson et al:
>
> RON WROTE:
>
> One of the joys of this volunteer coordinator position is
> getting
> surprise e-mails or phone calls from interesting people. This is to
> report
> on such a phone conversation with Dr. C. A. Stokes - a retired (in
> Florida)
> Chem Eng. graduate of MIT, with a long history of work in areas like
> ours.
> C.A. (or "Andy") (<andystokes@aol.com>) has agreed to jump in to add
> to and
> correct the brief summary I am about to give on the subject of cook
> stoves
> for developing countries that are based on methanol - a subject I do
> not
> recall having previously been raised on this list.
>
> AS HEAD OF THE GASIFICATION LIST, I'LL SECOND THAT THOUGHT. I GET
> LOTS OF
> INTERETING AND INFORMATIVE CALLS.
>
> Andy got into this business after using an "Origo" (sp?) that
> used
> ethanol - manufactured by Electrolux (world's largest supplier of
> kitchen
> equipment (?) - headquarters in Switzerland) - and being very
> impressed by
> its performance. But he thought methanol would offer improvements in
> cost
> and performance ("smokeless") and eventually (after visiting
> Switzerland)
> convinced Electrolux. He and Electrolux are now well along in
> offering
> this in large scale production - expected (2-burners) to cost about 25
> c
> per day (for about 1 liter) - with an initial cost of about $50.
> Representatives will be at our conference in Pune in November to
> demonstrate the stove. I believe Andy said that initial consumer-test
> reaction has been positive.
>
> AS ANYONE WHO HAS USED A FONDUE POT KNOWS, METHANOL AND ETHANOL BURN
> MUCH
> CLEANER THAN KEROSENE. AS BOY SCOUTS WE USED "STERNO" CANS OF GELLED
> ALCOHOLS FOR COOKING. I BELIEVE STERNO HAS CONTAINED EITHER METHANOL
> OR
> ETHANOL AT VARIOUS TIMES AND PLACES. THE OLD CAN IN MY GARAGE DOESN'T
> HAVE A
> METHANOL WARNING, SO MAY BE ETHANOL.
>
> Eventual production of the methanol could be from biomass
> sources
> (and therefore justifies discussion on this list) - but initially Andy
> is
> promoting the use of methanol coming from natural gas. I have been
> spending a lot of time looking at natural gas issues for the last
> several
> months (in order to promote renewable alternatives in the US where the
> natural gas price has more than doubled - to $5.00/MMBTU - in the last
> year). But Natural Gas pricing is unlike that of oil (relatively
> uniform
> world-side) - as very little is transported by ship as liquified
> natrual
> gas (LNG). There is a world-wide glut with lots of low-price gas that
> is
> unfortunately often flared for lack of a market.
>
> So - this new stoves topic is offered up for comment.
>
> A1. Does this list see this as a good alternative to
> wood-fired
> cook-stoves?
>
> SOUNDS VERY INTERESTING AND I'LL LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THE STOVE AT
> THE PUNE
> CONFERENCE. ALCOHOLS ARE MORE CONVENIENT AND CLEANER THAN WOOD
> STOVES, BUT
> ALSO MORE EXPENSIVE. (OUR NEW TURBO STOVE GASIFIERS WOOD AND THEN
> BURNS THE
> GAS WITHOUT ODOR.)
>
> OF COURSE ALCOHOL STOVES ARE PROBABLY OLDER THAN KEROSENE/GASOLINE
> STOVES,
> SINCE BOTH ETHANOL AND METHANOL WERE CHEAP AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY
> BEFORE
> BIG OIL GOT CRANKED UP. MANY CARS RAN ON ALCOHOL TOO. THE PRIMUS
> ALCOHOL
> STOVE HAS BEEN THE FAVORITE OF BACKPACKERS MOST OF THE CENTURY AND CAN
> USE
> EITHER METHANOL OR ETHANOL.
> ~~~~~
> THE FINAL PREFERENCE BETWEEN METHANOL AND ETHANOL WILL ALWAYS BE
> DECIDED IN
> PART ON COST AND AVAILABILITY. FOR NOW PETROLEUM FUELS ARE AS CHEAP
> OR
> CHEAPER THAN ALCOHOL FUELS. METHANOL IS CURRENTLY AROUND $.50/GAL IN
> BULK
> AND ETHANOL AROUND $1.25 IN BULK. (METHANOL HAS HALF THE ENERGY PER
> GALLON OF
> GASOLINE AND ETHANOL HAS 2/3 THE ENERGY OF GASOLINE.)
>
> A2. Is there agreement with Andy that methanol should be the
> fuel
> of preference?
>
> I HEARTILY SECOND THAT - IN THE LONG RUN, AND WILL GET LOTS OF
> CRITICISM FROM
> OUR SHORT RUN "ETHANOL'" LIST AT CREST. HERE'S THE LONG/SHORT
> ARGUMENTS.
>
> HUMANS HAVE BEEN MAKING ETHANOL FROM SUGAR AND STARCH FOR OVER 10,000
> YEARS -
> MOSTLY VERY DILUTE (<12% WITH MOST YEASTS). THE ARABS DISCOVERED
> DISTILLATION ABOUT 1000 AD AND MORE CONCENTRATED BEVERAGE ALCOHOLS
> PROLIFERATED. IN THE 1800s THE FRENCH BEGAN PIONEERING THE USE OF
> ETHANOL
> FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES, MOSTLY AS SOLVENTS.
>
> DURING WWII ETHANOL WAS WIDELY USED AS A BLEND FUEL. (UP TO 10% MOST
> PLACES
> AND THEY LOVED IT; UP TO 30% IN fRANCE AND THEY HATED IT.) BECAUSE OF
> ITS
> HIGH OCTANE IT WAS ALSO USED IN SMALL PLANES. UNFORTUNATELY BLENDS
> REQUIRE
> 100% ETHANOL AND DISTILLATION CAN ONLY PRODUCE 95% WITHOUT HAVING TO
> "BREAK
> THE AZEOTROPE", WHICH ADDS EXPENSE.
>
> EARLY IN THE 19TH CENTURY IT WAS DISCOVERED THAT THE "SMOKE" GENERATED
> DURING
> CHARCOAL MAKING CONTAINED ALL SORTS OF CHEMICAL GOODIES LIKE ACETIC
> ACID,
> ACETONE AND ... METHANOL (1.5% FROM HARWOODS, 0% FROM SOFWOODS). AS A
>
> BYPRODUCT OF CHARCOAL MAKING THESE CHEMICALS WERE QUITE CHEAP AND
> COULD BE
> USED COMMERCIALLY.
>
> SO, DEPENDING ON PLACE, PRODUCTION AND PRICE, THE TWO ALCOHOLS HAVE
> BEEN USED
> MORE OR LESS INTERCHANGABLY.
> ~~~~~~~~
> IN 1923, THE CHEMISTS AT I G FARBEN DISCOVERED A CATALYST THAT COULD
> MAKE
> METHANOL (50%) YIELD FROM COAL GASIFICATION, AND THAT METHANOL WAS
> MUCH
> CHEAPER THAN METHANOL FROM WOOD DISTILLATION (WOOD ALCOHOL) OR ETHANOL
> FROM
> CORN/POTATOES/STARCHY AND SUGARY PRODUCTS.
>
> I LIKE TO DRIVE MY CAR AND I PLAN TO LIVE A LONG TIME. IN 1973 I
> BECAME
> INTERESTED IN THE QUESTION OF WHAT FUELS WE WOULD USE AFTER OIL WAS
> GONE. I
> LOOKED AT THE ALCOHOLS - CLEAN BURNING, WELL ESTABLISHED FOR COOKING
> AND
> MOTOR FUELS.
>
> AT THAT TIME ETHANOL WAS $1.25/GAL AND METHANOL $0.15/GAL. I FIGURED
> THE
> DIFFERENCE REFLECTED REALITIES OF PRODUCTION.
> ~~~~~
> IN 1980 FARMERS DISCOVERED THAT THEY COULD MARKET EXCESS CORN AS THE
> ETHANOL
> BLEND FUEL "GASOHOL". THEY COULD ALSO IN PRINCIPLE PRODUCE THE
> ETHANOL ON
> THE FARM. WOW! SERI (NOW NREL) WROTE THE BOOK "FUELS FROM FARMS" IN
> 1980,
> AND I HAVE A COMPLIMENTARY BOUND COPY SINCE I WAS ONE OF THE WRITERS.
>
>
> YES, FARMERS CAN MAKE FUEL ON THE FARM, BUT ARCHER DANIEL MIDLANDS CAN
> MAKE
> IT CHEAPER AND HAS SCARFED UP MOST OF THE SUBSIDIES EVER SINCE.
> ~~~~~
> METHANOL FROM NATURAL GAS IS MUCH CHEAPER THAN ETHANOL. METHANOL FROM
> WOOD,
> CORN STOVER, TRASH ETC. IS POTENTIALLY MUCH CHEAPER THAN ETHANOL FROM
> CORN,
> BUT REQUIRES GASIFICATION, COMPRESSION AND A CATALYST. WE BUILT THE
> GASIFIER
> AT NREL IN THE 1980s AND PRODUCED 1 GALLON OF METHANOL AT GREAT
> EXPENSE.
>
> BUT UNTIL THE NEED BECOMES MORE CRITICAL WE'LL CONTINUE TO MAKE
> METHANOL FROM
> NATURAL GAS.
>
> SINCE CELLULOSE IS A POLYMER OF THE SUGARS NEEDED TO MAKE ETHANOL,
> SCIENTISTS
> HAVE BEEN WORKING ON "CRACKING THE CELLULOSE NUT" SINCE ABOUT 1910.
> PLANTS
> WERE BUILT DURING WW I AND WW II AND SHUT DOWN ASAP AFTER THE WAR.
> SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN PROMISING CHEAP ETHANOL FROM CELLULOSE BY
> ENZYMATIC OR
> ACID HYDROLYSIS FOR 100YEARS. MAKES GREAT RESEARCH FUNDING. I HOPE I
> LIVE
> LONG ENOUGH TO SEE THEM SUCCEED AND BECOME COMMERCIAL. A NEW VENTURE
> IS
> ANNOUNCED WTIH GREAT FANFARE EVERY YEAR, COLLECTING ENTHUSIASTIC
> INVESTORS.
> I HAVE BECOME CAUTIOUS.
>
> Andy - I am sure I have not done justice to your proposed optimum
> approach.
> Would you please (as a newly enrolled "stoves" member) add whatever
> you
> wish to make this story more complete? In particular, also :
>
> B1. Could you explain the technical reasons (molecular
> structure,
> etc) for prefering methanol over ethanol (or other liquid options such
> as
> seed or other oils).
>
> B2. What technical changes were necessary as a successful
> ethanol-based product was converted over to methanol?
>
> B3. As there is much interest in this list on biomass rather
> than
> fossil resources, under what future local gas price, plantation
> expertise,
> and conversion conditions would you expect to see a shift to
> biomass-bsed
> methanol? Could it be soon in some countries?
>
> B4. Any special words aobut lighting systems with methanol?
>
> B5. Why are liquid alcohol fuels better than gels?
>
> And thank you very much for your call, which was a lot of fun.
> Good luck in your efforts on developing better cook stoves. This is
> an
> interesting new contribution to our list discussion of alternatives>
>
> Ron
>
> THIS IS A DEBATE THAT WILL CONTINUE THROUGH MOST OF THE E21ST CENTURY.
> MAN
> PROPOSES AND GOD DISPOSES.....
>
> CHEERS, TOM REED BEF/CPC
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
> Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From costich at pacifier.com Tue Sep 12 10:29:27 2000
From: costich at pacifier.com (Dale Costich)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Alcohol Fuels - & Methanol vs Ethanol
In-Reply-To: <ae.a6df29a.26ef7060@cs.com>
Message-ID: <003501c01cc7$1e4b60e0$67e091c6@pacifier.com>

Dear list: Price of 50 gallon drum of Methanol (delivered) in the SW
Washington state is 2.15 per gallon.
I use this at about 15% rate per gallon of vegetable oil to make "grassahol"
or biodiesel. I don't know what epoch you guys lived in to find it for .15
cents or 50 cents per gallon?
Dale Costich
Brush Prairie, Wa
----- Original Message -----
From: <Reedtb2@cs.com>
To: <GASIFICATION@crest.org>; <STOVES@CEST.org>; <BIOENERGY@crest.org>;
<ETHANOL@crest.org>; <BIOFUELS@crest.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 4:41 AM
Subject: GAS-L: Alcohol Fuels - & Methanol vs Ethanol

> Dear Ron Larson et al:
>
> RON WROTE:
>
> One of the joys of this volunteer coordinator position is getting
> surprise e-mails or phone calls from interesting people. This is to
report
> on such a phone conversation with Dr. C. A. Stokes - a retired (in
Florida)
> Chem Eng. graduate of MIT, with a long history of work in areas like ours.
> C.A. (or "Andy") (<andystokes@aol.com>) has agreed to jump in to add to
and
> correct the brief summary I am about to give on the subject of cook stoves
> for developing countries that are based on methanol - a subject I do not
> recall having previously been raised on this list.
>
> AS HEAD OF THE GASIFICATION LIST, I'LL SECOND THAT THOUGHT. I GET LOTS OF
> INTERETING AND INFORMATIVE CALLS.
>
> Andy got into this business after using an "Origo" (sp?) that used
> ethanol - manufactured by Electrolux (world's largest supplier of kitchen
> equipment (?) - headquarters in Switzerland) - and being very impressed by
> its performance. But he thought methanol would offer improvements in cost
> and performance ("smokeless") and eventually (after visiting Switzerland)
> convinced Electrolux. He and Electrolux are now well along in offering
> this in large scale production - expected (2-burners) to cost about 25 c
> per day (for about 1 liter) - with an initial cost of about $50.
> Representatives will be at our conference in Pune in November to
> demonstrate the stove. I believe Andy said that initial consumer-test
> reaction has been positive.
>
> AS ANYONE WHO HAS USED A FONDUE POT KNOWS, METHANOL AND ETHANOL BURN MUCH
> CLEANER THAN KEROSENE. AS BOY SCOUTS WE USED "STERNO" CANS OF GELLED
> ALCOHOLS FOR COOKING. I BELIEVE STERNO HAS CONTAINED EITHER METHANOL OR
> ETHANOL AT VARIOUS TIMES AND PLACES. THE OLD CAN IN MY GARAGE DOESN'T
HAVE A
> METHANOL WARNING, SO MAY BE ETHANOL.
>
> Eventual production of the methanol could be from biomass sources
> (and therefore justifies discussion on this list) - but initially Andy is
> promoting the use of methanol coming from natural gas. I have been
> spending a lot of time looking at natural gas issues for the last several
> months (in order to promote renewable alternatives in the US where the
> natural gas price has more than doubled - to $5.00/MMBTU - in the last
> year). But Natural Gas pricing is unlike that of oil (relatively uniform
> world-side) - as very little is transported by ship as liquified natrual
> gas (LNG). There is a world-wide glut with lots of low-price gas that is
> unfortunately often flared for lack of a market.
>
> So - this new stoves topic is offered up for comment.
>
> A1. Does this list see this as a good alternative to wood-fired
> cook-stoves?
>
> SOUNDS VERY INTERESTING AND I'LL LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THE STOVE AT THE
PUNE
> CONFERENCE. ALCOHOLS ARE MORE CONVENIENT AND CLEANER THAN WOOD STOVES,
BUT
> ALSO MORE EXPENSIVE. (OUR NEW TURBO STOVE GASIFIERS WOOD AND THEN BURNS
THE
> GAS WITHOUT ODOR.)
>
> OF COURSE ALCOHOL STOVES ARE PROBABLY OLDER THAN KEROSENE/GASOLINE STOVES,
> SINCE BOTH ETHANOL AND METHANOL WERE CHEAP AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY
BEFORE
> BIG OIL GOT CRANKED UP. MANY CARS RAN ON ALCOHOL TOO. THE PRIMUS ALCOHOL
> STOVE HAS BEEN THE FAVORITE OF BACKPACKERS MOST OF THE CENTURY AND CAN USE
> EITHER METHANOL OR ETHANOL.
> ~~~~~
> THE FINAL PREFERENCE BETWEEN METHANOL AND ETHANOL WILL ALWAYS BE DECIDED
IN
> PART ON COST AND AVAILABILITY. FOR NOW PETROLEUM FUELS ARE AS CHEAP OR
> CHEAPER THAN ALCOHOL FUELS. METHANOL IS CURRENTLY AROUND $.50/GAL IN BULK
> AND ETHANOL AROUND $1.25 IN BULK. (METHANOL HAS HALF THE ENERGY PER GALLON
OF
> GASOLINE AND ETHANOL HAS 2/3 THE ENERGY OF GASOLINE.)
>
> A2. Is there agreement with Andy that methanol should be the fuel
> of preference?
>
> I HEARTILY SECOND THAT - IN THE LONG RUN, AND WILL GET LOTS OF CRITICISM
FROM
> OUR SHORT RUN "ETHANOL'" LIST AT CREST. HERE'S THE LONG/SHORT ARGUMENTS.
>
> HUMANS HAVE BEEN MAKING ETHANOL FROM SUGAR AND STARCH FOR OVER 10,000
YEARS -
> MOSTLY VERY DILUTE (<12% WITH MOST YEASTS). THE ARABS DISCOVERED
> DISTILLATION ABOUT 1000 AD AND MORE CONCENTRATED BEVERAGE ALCOHOLS
> PROLIFERATED. IN THE 1800s THE FRENCH BEGAN PIONEERING THE USE OF ETHANOL
> FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES, MOSTLY AS SOLVENTS.
>
> DURING WWII ETHANOL WAS WIDELY USED AS A BLEND FUEL. (UP TO 10% MOST
PLACES
> AND THEY LOVED IT; UP TO 30% IN fRANCE AND THEY HATED IT.) BECAUSE OF ITS
> HIGH OCTANE IT WAS ALSO USED IN SMALL PLANES. UNFORTUNATELY BLENDS
REQUIRE
> 100% ETHANOL AND DISTILLATION CAN ONLY PRODUCE 95% WITHOUT HAVING TO
"BREAK
> THE AZEOTROPE", WHICH ADDS EXPENSE.
>
> EARLY IN THE 19TH CENTURY IT WAS DISCOVERED THAT THE "SMOKE" GENERATED
DURING
> CHARCOAL MAKING CONTAINED ALL SORTS OF CHEMICAL GOODIES LIKE ACETIC ACID,
> ACETONE AND ... METHANOL (1.5% FROM HARWOODS, 0% FROM SOFWOODS). AS A
> BYPRODUCT OF CHARCOAL MAKING THESE CHEMICALS WERE QUITE CHEAP AND COULD BE
> USED COMMERCIALLY.
>
> SO, DEPENDING ON PLACE, PRODUCTION AND PRICE, THE TWO ALCOHOLS HAVE BEEN
USED
> MORE OR LESS INTERCHANGABLY.
> ~~~~~~~~
> IN 1923, THE CHEMISTS AT I G FARBEN DISCOVERED A CATALYST THAT COULD MAKE
> METHANOL (50%) YIELD FROM COAL GASIFICATION, AND THAT METHANOL WAS MUCH
> CHEAPER THAN METHANOL FROM WOOD DISTILLATION (WOOD ALCOHOL) OR ETHANOL
FROM
> CORN/POTATOES/STARCHY AND SUGARY PRODUCTS.
>
> I LIKE TO DRIVE MY CAR AND I PLAN TO LIVE A LONG TIME. IN 1973 I BECAME
> INTERESTED IN THE QUESTION OF WHAT FUELS WE WOULD USE AFTER OIL WAS GONE.
I
> LOOKED AT THE ALCOHOLS - CLEAN BURNING, WELL ESTABLISHED FOR COOKING AND
> MOTOR FUELS.
>
> AT THAT TIME ETHANOL WAS $1.25/GAL AND METHANOL $0.15/GAL. I FIGURED THE
> DIFFERENCE REFLECTED REALITIES OF PRODUCTION.
> ~~~~~
> IN 1980 FARMERS DISCOVERED THAT THEY COULD MARKET EXCESS CORN AS THE
ETHANOL
> BLEND FUEL "GASOHOL". THEY COULD ALSO IN PRINCIPLE PRODUCE THE ETHANOL ON
> THE FARM. WOW! SERI (NOW NREL) WROTE THE BOOK "FUELS FROM FARMS" IN
1980,
> AND I HAVE A COMPLIMENTARY BOUND COPY SINCE I WAS ONE OF THE WRITERS.
>
> YES, FARMERS CAN MAKE FUEL ON THE FARM, BUT ARCHER DANIEL MIDLANDS CAN
MAKE
> IT CHEAPER AND HAS SCARFED UP MOST OF THE SUBSIDIES EVER SINCE.
> ~~~~~
> METHANOL FROM NATURAL GAS IS MUCH CHEAPER THAN ETHANOL. METHANOL FROM
WOOD,
> CORN STOVER, TRASH ETC. IS POTENTIALLY MUCH CHEAPER THAN ETHANOL FROM
CORN,
> BUT REQUIRES GASIFICATION, COMPRESSION AND A CATALYST. WE BUILT THE
GASIFIER
> AT NREL IN THE 1980s AND PRODUCED 1 GALLON OF METHANOL AT GREAT EXPENSE.
>
> BUT UNTIL THE NEED BECOMES MORE CRITICAL WE'LL CONTINUE TO MAKE METHANOL
FROM
> NATURAL GAS.
>
> SINCE CELLULOSE IS A POLYMER OF THE SUGARS NEEDED TO MAKE ETHANOL,
SCIENTISTS
> HAVE BEEN WORKING ON "CRACKING THE CELLULOSE NUT" SINCE ABOUT 1910.
PLANTS
> WERE BUILT DURING WW I AND WW II AND SHUT DOWN ASAP AFTER THE WAR.
> SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN PROMISING CHEAP ETHANOL FROM CELLULOSE BY ENZYMATIC
OR
> ACID HYDROLYSIS FOR 100YEARS. MAKES GREAT RESEARCH FUNDING. I HOPE I
LIVE
> LONG ENOUGH TO SEE THEM SUCCEED AND BECOME COMMERCIAL. A NEW VENTURE IS
> ANNOUNCED WTIH GREAT FANFARE EVERY YEAR, COLLECTING ENTHUSIASTIC
INVESTORS.
> I HAVE BECOME CAUTIOUS.
>
> Andy - I am sure I have not done justice to your proposed optimum
approach.
> Would you please (as a newly enrolled "stoves" member) add whatever you
> wish to make this story more complete? In particular, also :
>
> B1. Could you explain the technical reasons (molecular structure,
> etc) for prefering methanol over ethanol (or other liquid options such as
> seed or other oils).
>
> B2. What technical changes were necessary as a successful
> ethanol-based product was converted over to methanol?
>
> B3. As there is much interest in this list on biomass rather than
> fossil resources, under what future local gas price, plantation expertise,
> and conversion conditions would you expect to see a shift to biomass-bsed
> methanol? Could it be soon in some countries?
>
> B4. Any special words aobut lighting systems with methanol?
>
> B5. Why are liquid alcohol fuels better than gels?
>
> And thank you very much for your call, which was a lot of fun.
> Good luck in your efforts on developing better cook stoves. This is an
> interesting new contribution to our list discussion of alternatives>
>
> Ron
>
> THIS IS A DEBATE THAT WILL CONTINUE THROUGH MOST OF THE E21ST CENTURY.
MAN
> PROPOSES AND GOD DISPOSES.....
>
> CHEERS, TOM REED BEF/CPC
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
> Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From boiler at execulink.com Tue Sep 12 15:16:30 2000
From: boiler at execulink.com (Rick Bell)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: used equipment
In-Reply-To: <71308BA96577D3119B1300A0C9AC08AD85F46D@exchange1.dekaresearch.com>
Message-ID: <001801c01cee$ed1f0080$6401efd1@rick>

looking for a biomas unit 600 to 1000 kw, capable of burning chicken gunk
(s--t), close to Ontario, Canada.

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From cstucley at enecon.com.au Tue Sep 12 21:11:34 2000
From: cstucley at enecon.com.au (Colin Stucley)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:41 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small scale gasifiers
Message-ID: <200009130111.SAA18809@secure.crest.net>

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:16:53 +1000
Message-ID: <01c01d20$4d7ef9e0$LocalHost@eneconozemail.com.au>
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Enecon Pty Ltd is an Australian technology company that specialises in =
renewable energy and co-products from biomass. We undertake a range of =
studies and related work for clients around Australia and neighbouring =
countries. For a current study for a government authority, and for =
other work anticipated in coming months, we need to update our database =
on small scale gasification. By small scale gasification we mean units =
with between 100 kW and 1MW of electrical output. Gasifiers that can =
not be connected to electrical generators are not of interest to us at =
this time. =20

We are principally seeking in units that are well tested or commercially =
proven, however R&D work underway is also of interest. If you would =
like to receive a questionnaire for completion please email us.

Regards,

Colin Stucley

Enecon Pty Ltd

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C01D74.1F2B09E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">

Enecon Pty Ltd is an Australian technology company that specialises = in=20
renewable energy and co-products from biomass. We undertake a = range
of=20 studies and related work for clients around Australia and
neighbouring=20 countries. For a current study for a government authority,
and for = other=20 work anticipated in coming months, we need to update our
database on = small scale=20 gasification. By small scale gasification we
mean units with = between 100=20 kW and 1MW of electrical
output. Gasifiers that can not be = connected to=20 electrical generators
are not of interest to us at this time.

We are principally seeking in units that are well tested or =
commercially=20 proven, however R&D work underway is also of interest. If
you = would=20 like to receive a questionnaire for completion please email
= us.

Regards,

Colin Stucley

Enecon Pty Ltd

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C01D74.1F2B09E0--

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From antonio.hilst at merconet.com.br Tue Sep 12 21:36:40 2000
From: antonio.hilst at merconet.com.br (Antonio G. P. Hilst)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Alcohol Fuels - & Methanol vs Ethanol
In-Reply-To: <ae.a6df29a.26ef7060@cs.com>
Message-ID: <39BEDA00.77B2BB91@merconet.com.br>

Tom, Dale, Andy and Netters:

The idea discussed in this msg recalls me the nice Kerosene lamps. But remember
poverty comes with uneducation. Ethanol is OK but methanol has a sad history of
accidents - poor people just drink it.

Antonio.

Dale Costich wrote:

> Dear list: Price of 50 gallon drum of Methanol (delivered) in the SW
> Washington state is 2.15 per gallon.
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
> Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Sep 13 11:27:40 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Tom Reed gone 3 weeks
Message-ID: <7e.a338d2c.26f0f645@cs.com>

Dear All:

In cae you care, Tom Reed will leave Sept. 7 for the Progress in
Thermochemical Biomass Conversion conference in Austria on business; then
(since I'm already there) on to Istanbul, a tour of the Black Sea and Greek
Isles, then back in Denver to a PILE of mail October 7.

Cheers, TOM REED
The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Sep 13 18:30:05 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Alcohol Fuels - & Methanol vs Ethanol
Message-ID: <93.7fe038.26f159ec@cs.com>

Dear Dale, Antonio et al:

1) Methanol is about 3 times as toxic as ethanol - and 1/3 as intoxicating.
Therefore anyone drinking it instead of ethanol is likely to kill themselves
or go blind. (The breakdown products are formic acid, much stronger than the
acetic acid breakdown from ethanol, and it denatures the protein of the
eyeball.)

The toxicity is an advantage. People won't be tempted to drink the fuel.
Gasoline is more toxic than methanol.

2) Don't confuse inflated retail price of methanol with true cost of
producing, $.40/gal.
If methanol were seriously being used as a fuel it would cost about the same
as gasoline, but in the present distribution system (to race drivers etc.)
they'll charge what the traffic will bear.

Get real....

TOM REED

In a message dated 9/12/00 8:04:29 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
antonio.hilst@merconet.com.br writes:

<< Tom, Dale, Andy and Netters:

The idea discussed in this msg recalls me the nice Kerosene lamps. But
remember
poverty comes with uneducation. Ethanol is OK but methanol has a sad
history of
accidents - poor people just drink it.

Antonio.

Dale Costich wrote:

> Dear list: Price of 50 gallon drum of Methanol (delivered) in the SW
> Washington state is 2.15 per gallon.
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
> >>
The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Sep 13 18:30:32 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small scale gasifiers
Message-ID: <13.ab47649.26f159f7@cs.com>

Dear Colin:

It sounds like you need a copy of our "Survey of Biomass Gasification -
2000". It may not have ALL gasifiers, but it has hundreds.... See our
attached list.

Yours truly,

TOM REED BEF PRESS

BOOKS FROM THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION PRESS

Book Descriptions - Order Blank Follows
NEW OR REVISED:
NEW: A SURVEY OF BIOMASS GASIFICATION 2000: T. Reed and S. Gaur have
surveyed the biomass gasification scene for the National Renewable Energy
Laboratory and the Biomass Energy Foundation. 180 pages of large gasifiers
systems, small gasifiers and gasifier research institutions with descriptions
of the major types of gasifiers and a list of most world gasifiers. ISBN
1-890607-13-4 180 pp $25
NEW: BIOMASS GASIFIER "TARS": THEIR NATURE, FORMATION, AND CONVERSION: T.
Milne, N. Abatzoglou, & R. J. Evans. "Tars" are the Achilles Heel of
gasification. This thorough work explores the chemical nature of tars, their
generation, and methods for testing and destroying them.
ISBN 1-890607-14-2 180 pp $25
NEW: EVALUATION OF GASIFICATION AND NOVEL THERMAL PROCESSES FOR THE
TREATMENT OF MUNICIPAL SOLID WASTE - W. Niessen et al. 1996 NREL report by
Camp Dresser and McKee on MSW conversion processes. ISBN 1-890607-15-0
198 pp $25
NEW: FROM THE FRYER TO THE FUEL TANK: HOW TO MAKE CHEAP, CLEAN FUEL FROM
FREE VEGETABLE OIL: J. & K. Tickell, (1998) Resale from Greenteach
Publishing Co. J & K Tickell have done an excellent job of collecting both
theory and praxis on producing Biodiesel fuel from vegetable oils,
particularly used oil. Nice instructions for kitchen or large scale. ISBN
0-9664616-0-6 90 pp $25
NEW/OLD: DENSIFIED BIOMASS: A NEW FORM OF SOLID FUEL: Tom Reed and Becky
Bryant, A "State of the Art evaluation of densified biomass fuels" with
documentation of processes, energy balance, economics and applications.
First published in 1978, & still good. New appendix on the physics of
densification. ISBN 1-890607-16-9 35 pp $12
NEW/OLD: MODERN GAS PRODUCERS: N. E. Rambush, the most complete collection
of information on the golden age of coal gasification, when every city had a
"gasworks" . Lots of food for thought on biomass gasification and why it's
different. 550 pp $30
NEW/OLD: FREE ENERGY OF BINARY COMPOUNDS: AN ATLAS OF CHARTS FOR
HIGH-TEMPERATRUE CALCULATIONS, 2nd edition, Thomas B. Reed. I published this
book with MIT Press in 1971 when I was working in high temperature materials
research. The data and charts apply to all of chemistry, so you can
calculate the thermodynamics of almost any reaction., MIT Press, 1971. My
magnum opus! 90 pp $20
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CLASSICS
BIOMASS DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS HANDBOOK: T. Reed and A. Das,
(SERI-1988) Over a million wood gasifiers were used to power cars and trucks
during World War II. Yet, after over two decades of interest, there are only
a few companies manufacturing gasifier systems. The authors have spent more
than 20 years working with various gasifier systems, In this book they
discuss ALL the factors that must be correct to have a successful "gasifier
power system." Our most popular book, the "new Testament" of gasification
ISBN 1-890607-00-2 140 pp $25
GENGAS: THE SWEDISH CLASSIC ON WOOD FUELED VEHICLES: English translation,
(SERI-1979) T.Reed, D. Jantzen and A. Das, with index. This is the "Old
Testament" of gasification, written by the people involved in successfully
converting 90% of transportation of WW II Sweden to wood gasifiers.
ISBN 1-890607-01-0 340 pp. $30

SMALL SCALE GAS PRODUCER-ENGINE SYSTEMS: A. Kaupp and J. Goss. (Veiweg,1984)
Updates GENGAS and contains critical engineering data indispensable for the
serious gasifier projects. Ali Kaupp is thorough and knowledgeable and still
active in the field! ISBN 1-890607-06-1 278 pp $30
PRODUCER-GAS: ANOTHER FUEL FOR MOTOR TRANSPORT: Ed. Noel Vietmeyer (The U.S.
National Academy of Sciences-1985) A seeing-is-believing primer with
historical and modern pictures of gasifiers. An outstanding text for any
introductory program. ISBN 1-890607-02-6 80 pp $10
FUNDAMENTAL STUDY AND SCALEUP OF THE AIR-OXYGEN STRATIFIED DOWNDRAFT
GASIFIER: T. Reed, M. Graboski and B. Levie (SERI 1988). In 1980 the Solar
Energy Research Institute initiated a program to develop an oxygen gasifier
to make methanol from biomass. A novel air/oxygen low tar gasifier was
designed and studied for five years at SERI at 1 ton/d and for 4 years at
Syn-Gas Inc. in a 25 ton/day gasifier. This book describes the theory and
operation of the two gasifiers in detail and also discusses the principles
and application of gasification as learned over eight years by the
author-gasifier team.
ISBN 1-890607-03-7 290 pp $30
CONTAMINANT TESTING FOR GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS: A. Das (TIPI 1989). Test
that gas for tar! Long engine life and reliable operation requires a gas
with less than 30 mg of tar and particulates per cubic meter (30 ppm). The
simplified test methods described here are adapted from standard ASTM and EPA
test procedures for sampling and analyzing char, tar and ash in the gas.
Suitable for raw and cleaned gas. New edition & figures, 1999. ISBN
1-890607-04-5 32 pp $10
TREE CROPS FOR ENERGY CO-PRODUCTION ON FARMS: Tom Milne (SERI 1980)
Evaluation of the energy potential to grow trees for energy. ISBN
1-890607-05-3 260 pp $30
WOOD GAS GENERATORS FOR VEHICLES: Nils Nygards (1973). Translation of recent
results of Swedish Agricultural Testing Institute, a companion to GENGAS.
ISBN 1-890607-08-8 50 pp. $4
CONSTRUCTION OF A SIMPLIFIED WOOD GAS GENERATOR: H. LaFontaine (1989) - Over
25 drawings and photographs on building a stratified downdraft gasifier for
fueling IC engines in a Petroleum Emergency (FEMA RR28). ISBN 1-890607-11-8
68 pp $15
BIOMASS TO METHANOL SPECIALISTS' WORKSHOP: Ed. T. Reed and M. Graboski, 1982.
Expert articles on conversion of biomass to methanol. ISBN 1-890607-10-X
331 pp $30
THE PEGASUS UNIT: THE LOST ART OF DRIVING WITHOUT GASOLINE: N. Skov and M.
Papworth, (1974). Pegasus = Petroleum/Gasoline Substitute Systems.
Description and beautiful detailed drawings of various gasifiers and systems
from World War II. ISBN 1-890607-09-6 80 pp $20
GASIFICATION OF RICE HULLS: THEORY AND PRAXIS: A. Kaupp. (Veiweg, 1984) Ali's
thesis applies gasification to rice hulls, since rice hulls are potentially a
major energy source - yet have unique problems in gasification. ISBN
1-890607-07-X 303 pp $30
TREES: by Jean Giono, 1953. While we strongly support using biomass for
energy, we are also very concerned about forest destruction. This delightful
story says more than any sermon on the benefits and methods of
reforestation. ISBN 1-89060712-6 8 pp $1
~~~~~~
The Biomass Energy Foundation operates a small press, archiving and printing
books useful in the field of biomass and the environment. We are able to
print, and attractively bind, out -of-print books in this field at reasonable
prices (i.e. far less than NTIS). We also have a large library of books in
the field of biomass collected by Tom Reed during his years at SERI/NREL and
at CSM.
If you have "classic" books you would like to see made available, please send
us suggestions. If there is enough demand we may add your book to our list -
and send you a free copy for your suggestion.

 


ORDER LIST - Biomass Energy Books
(Nicknames in Bold, see book descriptions, p. 1 and 2)

1. A SURVEY OF BIOMASS GASIFICATION 2000: $25

2. BIOMASS DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS HANDBOOK: $25

3. CONTAMINANT TESTING FOR GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS: $10

4. BIOMASS GASIFIER "TARS": THEIR NATURE, FORMATION, AND CONVERSION: $25

5. GENGAS: THE SWEDISH CLASSIC ON WOOD FUELED VEHICLES: $30

6. SMALL SCALE GAS PRODUCER ENGINE SYSTEMS: $30

7. PRODUCER-GAS: ANOTHER FUEL FOR MOTOR TRANSPORT: $10

8. FUNDAMENTAL STUDY AND SCALEUP OF THE AIR-OXYGEN STRATIFIED
DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER: $30

9. EVALUATION OF GASIFICATION AND NOVEL THERMAL PROCESSES
FOR THE TREATMENT OF MUNICIPAL SOLID WASTE - MSW $25

10. DENSIFIED BIOMASS: A NEW FORM OF SOLID FUEL: $12

11. WOOD GAS GENERATORS FOR VEHICLES: $4

12. CONSTRUCTION OF A SIMPLIFIED WOOD GAS GENERATOR: $15

13. BIOMASS TO METHANOL SPECIALISTS' WORKSHOP: $30

14. THE PEGASUS UNIT: THE LOST ART OF DRIVING WITHOUT GASOLINE: $20

15. GASIFICATION OF RICE HULLS: THEORY AND PRAXIS: $30

16. TREES: $1

17. TREE CROPS FOR ENERGY CO-PRODUCTION ON FARMS: $30

18. FROM THE FRYER TO THE FUEL TANK: HOW TO MAKE CHEAP,
CLEAN FUEL FROM FREE VEGETABLE OIL: $25

19. MODERN GAS PRODUCERS by N. E. Rambush (1923) $30

20. Free Energy of Binary Compounds $20

TOTAL FOR BOOKS ___________
ORDER BLANK
-10% if 3 or more books ordered or to booksellers ______+ $3 handling + (US
and Canada
$1.50 (bookrate, or request air, $3) or (other foreign, $9/large book- air
only) TOTAL___________

E-mail order to reedtb2@CS.com or Mail orders to The Biomass Energy
Foundation Press, 1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401; FAX 303-278 0560; call
303 278 0558.
We'll send invoice with books. Pay by postal order or check on US Banks (no
foreign checks - can cost $25 to clear), or Electronic payment to Wells Fargo
Bank, Golden, CO 80401, Bank No. 102 0000 76, Account 300 800 2911.
THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION

The Biomass Energy Foundation was founded in 1984 by Dr. Harry LaFontaine as
a 501(c) 3, not for profit organization to do research and educational tasks
in the field of biomass, the environment and related areas. With Harry's
death in April, 1994, the work of the foundation has been taken over by the
new president, Dr. Thomas B. Reed
Tom Reed has a wide interest and experience in the energy and environmental
areas and has specialized in biomass thermal conversion, (gasification,
pyrolysis and combustion) since the first energy crisis in 1973. Tom is
currently working with the Community Power Corporation to develop Small
Modular BIomass Power Systems and clean wood-gas cooking stoves for
deployment in developing countries. Tom won an R&D-100 award (best invention
of the year) for the high pressure oxygen gasifier in 1982, and he thinks
we'll need that technology soon, as the oil runs dry.
Tom is also currently working on the new alternative diesel fuel,
"biodiesel", especially from waste cooking oils and Sea Sweep, an oil
absorbent made from wood waste. Sea Sweep won a "R&D 100" award for one of
the 100 best inventions of 1993. Dr. Reed continues his research in other
fields of biomass and gives lectures in these fields. He is available for
consulting in his fields of interest.
LINKS
To find out more about us, visit our websites at www.woodgas.com and www.
webpan.com/bef. (We hope to update the former ASAP, but….)
To find out more about biomass, visit the Center for Renewable Energy and
Sustainable Technology's site at www.crest.org. They maintain discussion
groups on gasification, stoves, biomass energy etc. and archives of all
letters that have ever been sent. I am webmaster at the GASIFICATION site.
They also maintain links to the other important biomass energy sites.

 


In a message dated 9/12/00 7:14:30 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
cstucley@enecon.com.au writes:

<<
Enecon Pty Ltd is an Australian technology company that specialises in =
renewable energy and co-products from biomass. We undertake a range of =
studies and related work for clients around Australia and neighbouring =
countries. For a current study for a government authority, and for =
other work anticipated in coming months, we need to update our database =
on small scale gasification. By small scale gasification we mean units =
with between 100 kW and 1MW of electrical output. Gasifiers that can =
not be connected to electrical generators are not of interest to us at =
this time. =20

We are principally seeking in units that are well tested or commercially =
proven, however R&D work underway is also of interest. If you would =
like to receive a questionnaire for completion please email us.

Regards,

Colin Stucley

Enecon Pty Ltd
>>
The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Sep 13 18:30:40 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New Book List from BEF
Message-ID: <f2.2a74ac7.26f159fd@cs.com>

Dear All:

We are finding more and more interest in books on biomass energy and
gasification. We are on our way to attend the PROGRESS IN THERMAL BIOMASS
CONVERSION conference in Austria and have made up a new 4 page flyer
describing our books and our services, attached.

Cheers,

TOM REED...

BOOKS FROM THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION PRESS

Book Descriptions - Order Blank Follows
NEW OR REVISED:

NEW: A SURVEY OF BIOMASS GASIFICATION 2000: T. Reed and S. Gaur have
surveyed the biomass gasification scene for the National Renewable Energy
Laboratory and the Biomass Energy Foundation. 180 pages of large gasifiers
systems, small gasifiers and gasifier research institutions with descriptions
of the major types of gasifiers and a list of most world gasifiers. ISBN
1-890607-13-4 180 pp $25

NEW: BIOMASS GASIFIER "TARS": THEIR NATURE, FORMATION, AND CONVERSION: T.
Milne, N. Abatzoglou, & R. J. Evans. "Tars" are the Achilles Heel of
gasification. This thorough work explores the chemical nature of tars, their
generation, and methods for testing and destroying them.
ISBN 1-890607-14-2 180 pp $25

NEW: EVALUATION OF GASIFICATION AND NOVEL THERMAL PROCESSES FOR THE
TREATMENT OF MUNICIPAL SOLID WASTE - W. Niessen et al. 1996 NREL report by
Camp Dresser and McKee on MSW conversion processes. ISBN 1-890607-15-0
198 pp $25

NEW: FROM THE FRYER TO THE FUEL TANK: HOW TO MAKE CHEAP, CLEAN FUEL FROM
FREE VEGETABLE OIL: J. & K. Tickell, (1998) Resale from Greenteach
Publishing Co. J & K Tickell have done an excellent job of collecting both
theory and praxis on producing Biodiesel fuel from vegetable oils,
particularly used oil. Nice instructions for kitchen or large scale. ISBN
0-9664616-0-6 90 pp $25

NEW/OLD: DENSIFIED BIOMASS: A NEW FORM OF SOLID FUEL: Tom Reed and Becky
Bryant, A "State of the Art evaluation of densified biomass fuels" with
documentation of processes, energy balance, economics and applications.
First published in 1978, & still good. New appendix on the physics of
densification. ISBN 1-890607-16-9 35 pp $12

NEW/OLD: MODERN GAS PRODUCERS: N. E. Rambush, the most complete collection
of information on the golden age of coal gasification, when every city had a
"gasworks" . Lots of food for thought on biomass gasification and why it's
different. 550 pp $30

NEW/OLD: FREE ENERGY OF BINARY COMPOUNDS: AN ATLAS OF CHARTS FOR
HIGH-TEMPERATRUE CALCULATIONS, 2nd edition, Thomas B. Reed. I published this
book with MIT Press in 1971 when I was working in high temperature materials
research. The data and charts apply to all of chemistry, so you can
calculate the thermodynamics of almost any reaction., MIT Press, 1971. My
magnum opus! 90 pp $20
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CLASSICS
BIOMASS DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS HANDBOOK: T. Reed and A. Das,
(SERI-1988) Over a million wood gasifiers were used to power cars and trucks
during World War II. Yet, after over two decades of interest, there are only
a few companies manufacturing gasifier systems. The authors have spent more
than 20 years working with various gasifier systems, In this book they
discuss ALL the factors that must be correct to have a successful "gasifier
power system." Our most popular book, the "new Testament" of gasification
ISBN 1-890607-00-2 140 pp $25

GENGAS: THE SWEDISH CLASSIC ON WOOD FUELED VEHICLES: English translation,
(SERI-1979) T.Reed, D. Jantzen and A. Das, with index. This is the "Old
Testament" of gasification, written by the people involved in successfully
converting 90% of transportation of WW II Sweden to wood gasifiers.
ISBN 1-890607-01-0 340 pp. $30

SMALL SCALE GAS PRODUCER-ENGINE SYSTEMS: A. Kaupp and J. Goss. (Veiweg,1984)
Updates GENGAS and contains critical engineering data indispensable for the
serious gasifier projects. Ali Kaupp is thorough and knowledgeable and still
active in the field! ISBN 1-890607-06-1 278 pp $30

PRODUCER-GAS: ANOTHER FUEL FOR MOTOR TRANSPORT: Ed. Noel Vietmeyer (The U.S.
National Academy of Sciences-1985) A seeing-is-believing primer with
historical and modern pictures of gasifiers. An outstanding text for any
introductory program. ISBN 1-890607-02-6 80 pp $10

FUNDAMENTAL STUDY AND SCALEUP OF THE AIR-OXYGEN STRATIFIED DOWNDRAFT
GASIFIER: T. Reed, M. Graboski and B. Levie (SERI 1988). In 1980 the Solar
Energy Research Institute initiated a program to develop an oxygen gasifier
to make methanol from biomass. A novel air/oxygen low tar gasifier was
designed and studied for five years at SERI at 1 ton/d and for 4 years at
Syn-Gas Inc. in a 25 ton/day gasifier. This book describes the theory and
operation of the two gasifiers in detail and also discusses the principles
and application of gasification as learned over eight years by the
author-gasifier team.
ISBN 1-890607-03-7 290 pp $30

CONTAMINANT TESTING FOR GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS: A. Das (TIPI 1989). Test
that gas for tar! Long engine life and reliable operation requires a gas
with less than 30 mg of tar and particulates per cubic meter (30 ppm). The
simplified test methods described here are adapted from standard ASTM and EPA
test procedures for sampling and analyzing char, tar and ash in the gas.
Suitable for raw and cleaned gas. New edition & figures, 1999. ISBN
1-890607-04-5 32 pp $10

TREE CROPS FOR ENERGY CO-PRODUCTION ON FARMS: Tom Milne (SERI 1980)
Evaluation of the energy potential to grow trees for energy. ISBN
1-890607-05-3 260 pp $30

WOOD GAS GENERATORS FOR VEHICLES: Nils Nygards (1973). Translation of recent
results of Swedish Agricultural Testing Institute, a companion to GENGAS.
ISBN 1-890607-08-8 50 pp. $4

CONSTRUCTION OF A SIMPLIFIED WOOD GAS GENERATOR: H. LaFontaine (1989) - Over
25 drawings and photographs on building a stratified downdraft gasifier for
fueling IC engines in a Petroleum Emergency (FEMA RR28). ISBN 1-890607-11-8
68 pp $15

BIOMASS TO METHANOL SPECIALISTS' WORKSHOP: Ed. T. Reed and M. Graboski, 1982.
Expert articles on conversion of biomass to methanol. ISBN 1-890607-10-X
331 pp $30

THE PEGASUS UNIT: THE LOST ART OF DRIVING WITHOUT GASOLINE: N. Skov and M.
Papworth, (1974). Pegasus = Petroleum/Gasoline Substitute Systems.
Description and beautiful detailed drawings of various gasifiers and systems
from World War II. ISBN 1-890607-09-6 80 pp $20

GASIFICATION OF RICE HULLS: THEORY AND PRAXIS: A. Kaupp. (Veiweg, 1984) Ali's
thesis applies gasification to rice hulls, since rice hulls are potentially a
major energy source - yet have unique problems in gasification. ISBN
1-890607-07-X 303 pp $30

TREES: by Jean Giono, 1953. While we strongly support using biomass for
energy, we are also very concerned about forest destruction. This delightful
story says more than any sermon on the benefits and methods of
reforestation. ISBN 1-89060712-6 8 pp $1
~~~~~~
The Biomass Energy Foundation operates a small press, archiving and printing
books useful in the field of biomass and the environment. We are able to
print, and attractively bind, out -of-print books in this field at reasonable
prices (i.e. far less than NTIS). We also have a large library of books in
the field of biomass collected by Tom Reed during his years at SERI/NREL and
at CSM.

If you have "classic" books you would like to see made available, please send
us suggestions. If there is enough demand we may add your book to our list -
and send you a free copy for your suggestion.
~~~~~~~~~~

ORDER LIST

(Nicknames in Bold, see book descriptions, p. 1 and 2)

1. A SURVEY OF BIOMASS GASIFICATION 2000: $25

2. BIOMASS DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS HANDBOOK: $25

3. CONTAMINANT TESTING FOR GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS: $10

4. BIOMASS GASIFIER "TARS": THEIR NATURE, FORMATION, AND CONVERSION: $25

5. GENGAS: THE SWEDISH CLASSIC ON WOOD FUELED VEHICLES: $30

6. SMALL SCALE GAS PRODUCER ENGINE SYSTEMS: $30

7. PRODUCER-GAS: ANOTHER FUEL FOR MOTOR TRANSPORT: $10

8. FUNDAMENTAL STUDY AND SCALEUP OF THE AIR-OXYGEN STRATIFIED
DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER: $30

9. EVALUATION OF GASIFICATION AND NOVEL THERMAL PROCESSES
FOR THE TREATMENT OF MUNICIPAL SOLID WASTE - MSW $25

10. DENSIFIED BIOMASS: A NEW FORM OF SOLID FUEL: $12

11. WOOD GAS GENERATORS FOR VEHICLES: $4

12. CONSTRUCTION OF A SIMPLIFIED WOOD GAS GENERATOR: $15

13. BIOMASS TO METHANOL SPECIALISTS' WORKSHOP: $30

14. THE PEGASUS UNIT: THE LOST ART OF DRIVING WITHOUT GASOLINE: $20

15. GASIFICATION OF RICE HULLS: THEORY AND PRAXIS: $30

16. TREES: $1

17. TREE CROPS FOR ENERGY CO-PRODUCTION ON FARMS: $30

18. FROM THE FRYER TO THE FUEL TANK: HOW TO MAKE CHEAP,
CLEAN FUEL FROM FREE VEGETABLE OIL: $25

19. MODERN GAS PRODUCERS by N. E. Rambush (1923) $30

20. Free Energy of Binary Compounds $20

TOTAL FOR BOOKS ___________
ORDER BLANK
-10% if 3 or more books ordered or to booksellers ______+ $3 handling + (US
and Canada
$1.50 (bookrate, or request air, $3) or (other foreign, $9/large book- air
only) TOTAL___________

E-mail order to reedtb2@CS.com or Mail orders to The Biomass Energy
Foundation Press, 1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401; FAX 303-278 0560; call
303 278 0558.
We'll send invoice with books. Pay by postal order or check on US Banks (no
foreign checks - can cost $25 to clear), or Electronic payment to Wells Fargo
Bank, Golden, CO 80401, Bank No. 102 0000 76, Account 300 800 2911.
THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION
~~~~~~~~~
The Biomass Energy Foundation was founded in 1984 by Dr. Harry LaFontaine as
a 501(c) 3, not for profit organization to do research and educational tasks
in the field of biomass, the environment and related areas. With Harry's
death in April, 1994, the work of the foundation has been taken over by the
new president, Dr. Thomas B. Reed
Tom Reed has a wide interest and experience in the energy and environmental
areas and has specialized in biomass thermal conversion, (gasification,
pyrolysis and combustion) since the first energy crisis in 1973. Tom is
currently working with the Community Power Corporation to develop Small
Modular BIomass Power Systems and clean wood-gas cooking stoves for
deployment in developing countries. Tom won an R&D-100 award (best invention
of the year) for the high pressure oxygen gasifier in 1982, and he thinks
we'll need that technology soon, as the oil runs dry.

Tom is also currently working on the new alternative diesel fuel,
"biodiesel", especially from waste cooking oils and Sea Sweep, an oil
absorbent made from wood waste. Sea Sweep won a "R&D 100" award for one of
the 100 best inventions of 1993. Dr. Reed continues his research in other
fields of biomass and gives lectures in these fields. He is available for
consulting in his fields of interest.
LINKS
To find out more about us, visit our websites at www.woodgas.com and www.
webpan.com/bef. (We hope to update the former ASAP, but….)
To find out more about biomass, visit the Center for Renewable Energy and
Sustainable Technology's site at www.crest.org. They maintain discussion
groups on gasification, stoves, biomass energy etc. and archives of all
letters that have ever been sent. I am webmaster at the GASIFICATION site.
They also maintain links to the other important biomass energy sites.
The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From LINVENT at aol.com Wed Sep 13 19:35:00 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Alcohol Fuels - & Methanol vs Ethanol
Message-ID: <2f.a758dd1.26f16921@aol.com>

Dear Tom Reed et. al.,
An interesting comment is that poor people will drink methanol and rich
people will drink ethanol. Oh what a difference a few atoms makes. During
the prohibition in Ireland one year, 100,000 liters of ether was consumed in
Dublin.

Tom Taylor
The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From rbaileys at prmenergy.com Thu Sep 14 09:26:53 2000
From: rbaileys at prmenergy.com (Ron Bailey, Sr)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small scale gasifiers
In-Reply-To: <200009130111.SAA18809@secure.crest.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c01e4f$a07a6780$0501a8c0@Ronsr>

Mr. Stucley:
PRM Energy Systems, Inc. offers Biomass Fired Engine/Turbine Generator
Systems in a range of 500kW to 35MW. Please visit our web sites:

http://www.prmenergy.com
http://www.primenergy.com
http://www.guascor.com
for more information.
Regards,
Ron Bailey
PRM Energy Systems, Inc.

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From stanclayton at earthlink.net Sun Sep 17 00:36:30 2000
From: stanclayton at earthlink.net (Stan Clayton)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Alcohol Fuels - & Methanol vs Ethanol
Message-ID: <200009170436.AAA32283@crest.solarhost.com>

Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 18:55:16 -0700
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211
Encoding: 36 TEXT

Dear Tom Reed, Andy Stokes, et al:

I must admit that I am a bit confused by all this talk about the relative
merits of ethanol vs methanol as an alternative "3rd World" fuel. As a
two-time Peace Corps Volunteer (Guatemala and Kenya), and recently (Apr 00)
having returned from a year working in Ecuador, it is clear to me that
neither of these fuels is a viable candidate for use in the world's poorest
areas. With the dollar-a-day rural earner's income in many of these
countries, the poorest people simply can't afford either.

Don't kid yourselves. Wood, either raw or as charcoal, will remain the fuel
of choice for household use for the foreseeable future. It can be gathered
as scrap, grown along the borders of small plots, or cut from living trees
for "free". And homemade charcoal is still extremely cheap in most of the
developing world. That is why the "turbo" stove and its variants are so
valuable -- if overpriced. Anything that increases the efficiency of wood
combustion will find a ready market if it is low priced enough. But $50
retail is too expensive when the alternative is an earthen stove that costs
little or nothing to build, even if it burns more fuel.

Seriously folks, there is a break point at about $10. Anything priced
higher than that meets buying resistance from your target customer. Andy,
if you really wish to make a lasting contribution, concentrate on getting a
cheaper high efficiency wood burning cook stove into the hands of people in
the developing world. Tom, keep pushing affordable wood-gas converters. The
retail price of gasoline in these countries is often $1 a liter, way out of
the price range of those who can least afford it. I also seriously question
the utility of either stripping agricultural topsoil for ethanol production
or converting natural gas to methanol to sell to the world's poor. They
can't afford them. The fuels aren't renewable. And kerosene is still
cheaper and safer.

As Tom would say, "get real..." ];-)

Stan Clayton
Tucson, Arizona, USA

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From english at adan.kingston.net Sun Sep 17 00:36:30 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: CO from Wood Gasifiers Stoves
Message-ID: <200009170436.AAA32292@crest.solarhost.com>

Reply-to: english@adan.kingston.net
CC: Mike Norris <mnorris@dekaresearch.com>
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)

Dear Mike,

Tom Reed is indeed promoting wood gas stoves for general public use.
Aside from the fact that cooking stoves are usually well monitored
compared to heating stoves, his design has a few features which make
accidental poisoning from Carbon monoxide less likely than some
arrangements. The fuel is lit on top and fuel carbonization proceeds
from the top down producing a tar rich "smoky" gas which supports a
stable flame. With a loss of flame, which could occur at very low
firing rates or if the fan quit, the smoke would quickly alert the
user to take corrective action. The risky time is after the fuel has
been carbonized and is gasifying from the bottom up. Loss of flame
will only occur at this stage if the fan goes off. At this point
there is likely less than 100 grams of charcoal available to produce
CO.

I decided to take a stove at this stage, with the fan off, and the
hot charcoal from wood pellets still glowing, and place it into a
completely shut, but not sealed, van. The CO level in the van, 4
cubic metres of space, rose to a peak of 140 ppmv in twenty minutes
and slowly dropped to 40ppmv after about two hours. By which time the
charcoal was cool enough to touch. Larger, self insulating, piles of
charcoal pellets can smoulder for days.

It seems unlikely that anyone would use this stove in such a confined
space. It also seems unlikely that a ventilated kitchen
would build up lethal levels of CO from this stove when used with
non charcoal fuel. One way to reduce this possibility
further would be to place the lower air supply such that there
remains some small quantity of pyrolysing fuel in the bottom until
most of the charcoal has been consumed, thus producing the smoke
warning when the fan quits and the flame goes out.

It should be a simple matter to do a field study of this problem, and
it should be done.

Regards,
Alex English

Mike Norris wrote;
I have a general question about gasification for a household
appliance such as a cookstove. I appreciate that gasification will
produce a clean smokeless flame that will have much lower toxic
emissions than a traditional wood fire. However, I am quite
concerned about CO poisoning in the event of a flame-out or after the
burner is shutdown. The evolved gases are 10%+ CO and extremely
toxic. Extensive precautions would be taken in a laboratory if
personnel were working with such a toxic gas. I've read that some 13
people died in the first 2 years of W.W.II in Sweden from using wood
gasifiers and a couple of researchers died in the eighties. What can
be done to build a real product that would gasify biomasswithout
exposing consumers to CO poisoning? One has to consider malfunctions
of the hardware and foolish use by the consumer. Is it reasonable to
advocate gasification for general public use or should it's use be
limited to industrialized settings with trained operators?

respectfully
Mike Norris

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From j.joyce at sri.org.au Sun Sep 17 18:36:46 2000
From: j.joyce at sri.org.au (j.joyce@sri.org.au)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: CO from Wood Gasifiers Stoves
Message-ID: <200009172236.SAA28673@crest.solarhost.com>

To: gasification@crest.org
Cc: stoves@crest.org
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.1 (Intl) 16 July 1999
Message-ID: <OF8EE70A2B.D962C69C-ON4A25695D.007B49F0@sri.org.au>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:32:29 +1000
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Hub/SRI(Release 5.0.4 |June 8, 2000) at
09/18/2000
08:32:36 AM
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I am just about to order a CO sensing fire detector from Tyco Services.
These units typically detect at 40ppm CO, but the industrial versions can
be set to trigger as low as 30ppm or as high as 70ppm. At $148 Australian
for a domestic style unit (or $80US)) I consider it pretty cheap insurance
for anyone experimenting with combustion or gasification.

James Joyce
Engineer
Sugar Research Institute
Mackay, Queensland
Australia

 

 

"*.English"

<english@adan.king To: stoves@crest.org,
gasification@crest.org
ston.net> cc:

Sent by: Subject: GAS-L: CO from
Wood Gasifiers Stoves
owner-gasification

@crest.org

 

17/09/00
13:49
Please respond
to
gasification

 

 

Reply-to: english@adan.kingston.net
CC: Mike Norris <mnorris@dekaresearch.com>
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)

Dear Mike,

Tom Reed is indeed promoting wood gas stoves for general public use.
Aside from the fact that cooking stoves are usually well monitored
compared to heating stoves, his design has a few features which make
accidental poisoning from Carbon monoxide less likely than some
arrangements. The fuel is lit on top and fuel carbonization proceeds
from the top down producing a tar rich "smoky" gas which supports a
stable flame. With a loss of flame, which could occur at very low
firing rates or if the fan quit, the smoke would quickly alert the
user to take corrective action. The risky time is after the fuel has
been carbonized and is gasifying from the bottom up. Loss of flame
will only occur at this stage if the fan goes off. At this point
there is likely less than 100 grams of charcoal available to produce
CO.

I decided to take a stove at this stage, with the fan off, and the
hot charcoal from wood pellets still glowing, and place it into a
completely shut, but not sealed, van. The CO level in the van, 4
cubic metres of space, rose to a peak of 140 ppmv in twenty minutes
and slowly dropped to 40ppmv after about two hours. By which time the
charcoal was cool enough to touch. Larger, self insulating, piles of
charcoal pellets can smoulder for days.

snip

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From graeme at powerlink.co.nz Wed Sep 20 03:33:24 2000
From: graeme at powerlink.co.nz (Graeme Williams)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Millenium Project
Message-ID: <003301c022d4$f766e260$ed0e37d2@graeme>

Millenium Project

Dear Gasification Colleagues

Having just returned home to New Zealand after living out of a suitcase for
9 weeks, thought you would appreciate a brief respite from the steam engines
and share a major step forward with Fluidyne's Mega Class project.

This project was first shown at the Klema Climate Change Trade Fair in
Berlin in 1995 and was designed to overcome all the issues that inhibit the
scaling up of small wood gasifier systems. As always, funding this type of
project has hindered progress resulting in the closing of our N.Z. workshop
2 years ago, so everything went on hold.

If you don't know, Fluidyne only specialised in making gas appropriate for
engine application, which translated into plain English means Producer Gas
and not Pyrolysis Gas which has all those sticky tars. In the short term,
the gas is to go to a waste flare, as the priority is not power generation
for the new project.

The construction of the gasifier was done in Canada and to keep it honest we
invited a colleague from Ireland to act as witness to the first firing, as
the overall consensus of opinion was that it was only an incinerator. In
keeping with our operating experience of the Pacific Class system, ignition
was within 10 seconds, and gas was burning at the test flare in 4 minutes.
Although the first firings were a little "hairy", the team have now
confirmed a conversion rate of 1 tonne/hr making gas the equivalent of 1mWe.
The system is now complete with fuel feeders etc. And all the tests that
have to be made will be completed in the next few months. Hopefully we can
then move on to the next phase of engine interface, which should eventuate
early next year in Europe.

For the moment, Mega Class projects are not being released commercially as
the lack of infrastructures to support implementation of one off systems
would jeopardise their operation. There is more to implementing
gasification than just making and selling them!

Being a Millenium year project, I can only say it has created a good start
to this my 24th year of engine gasification. The promised review reports of
my trip will be posted in the next few weeks, but in the meantime a photo of
the Mega Class is now in the Fluidyne Archive. It stands 5 metres and
weights in at 4.5 tonnes.

http://members.nbci.com/whitools/

Regards
Doug Williams
Fluidyne Gasification.

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From korbee at ecn.nl Wed Sep 20 07:06:37 2000
From: korbee at ecn.nl (Korbee, R.)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Position for researcher biomass conversion
Message-ID: <50B56D407D2DD31191DE00902771E9F41C7A60@ecntex.ecn.nl>

Dear Colleagues,

Due to an unforeseen temporary shortage in personnel, ECN Biomass is looking
urgently for a good postgraduate or postdoctoral student in the field of
Chemical or Process Technology, preferably with some experience in thermal
conversion of solid fuels for power production. The work will consist of the
management and (scientific) execution of (experimental) projects on
entrained-flow gasification of coal and biomass/waste. The initial duration
will be one year, with possibilities for extension depending on the
performance of the candidate and the available budget after this year.
Further details can be found below.

It may be a good opportunity to gain relevant research experience and have a
nice time in the Netherlands.

We would be grateful if you could pass this e-mail to anyone that might be
interested and fulfils the qualifications.

Researcher/project leader

The organisation
The Netherlands Energy Research Foundation ECN is the leading institute for
energy research in the Netherlands. The ECN scientific and technical staff,
over 700 people in total, are dedicated to the ECN mission: contributing to
a clean and reliable energy supply for a viable world. ECN carries out basic
and applied research in six priority areas: solar energy, wind energy,
biomass, clean fossil fuels, energy efficiency and policy studies. Within
these priority areas, ECN focuses its activities on the needs and wishes of
the industry, the energy sector and the government in order to contribute,
through target-oriented development and transfer of knowledge and
technology, to innovative solutions for its target groups and customers. ECN
works, with sustainability as a guideline, on the development of a reliable,
environmentally sound and cost-effective energy economy and aims at
internationally recognised expertise through selected spearheads.

ECN Biomass is dedicated mainly to R&D on the (thermal) conversion of
biomass/waste (and coal) into power, heat and secondary (gaseous/liquid)
fuels. With 40 full-time equivalent staff and an annual turnover of 6 MEURO,
the programme of ECN Biomass is focused on the following areas: fuel
characterisation and development, development of integral gasification and
pyrolysis technology for biomass residues and high-calorific, heavily
polluted residual waste, support at market-introduction of gasification and
pyrolysis technologies, development of advanced concepts for poly-generation
of energy and products, research to support implementation of cofiring
strategies, consultancy on energy conversion from coal, biomass and waste.

The Section ECN Biomass - Chemical & Physical Processes addresses mainly the
chemical and physical processes that are crucial in the implementation of
coal and biomass conversion technologies. Focal points are the role of
minerals and trace elements during conversion and co-conversion of coal and
biomass, ash behaviour (fouling, slagging, bed-agglomeration) and
utilisation, tar formation and removal, and the formation and fate of
gaseous contaminants (NH3, HCl, alkali components).

General information regarding the organisation and its activities can be
obtained from the ECN web site: http://www.ecn.nl/main.html.

Job description
ECN Biomass carries out research projects on entrained-flow gasification of
coal and biomass/waste. These projects have a strong experimental focus,
applying a unique pressurised bench-scale facility to investigate the
gasification and especially ash behaviour of various fuels. Carrying out
experimental programmes as well as engineering activities are considered to
be important daily activities, next to sample analysis and evaluation of the
results. In recent projects direct contacts with industrial clients have
been successfully established and are presently developed further. The
duration of the current vacancy is initially set at one year. In this
context, the position should be regarded as an opportunity to gain relevant
research experience in a stimulating internationally oriented environment.

Candidate's profile
You have successfully completed or are about to complete an academic study
(M.Sc. or Ph.D.) in the field of Chemical or Process Technology, preferably
with experience in the area of thermal conversion of solid fuels for power
production. You are a team-worker and you are able to guide operating
technicians. You posses the skills of managing and of giving input to
scientific research work in a project-wise manner. To report the results of
your work, you must have a thorough knowledge of the English language, both
verbal and in writing. Of course you are enthusiastic about working and
gaining working experience in a foreign country such as The Netherlands.

Conditions of employment
ECN offers contemporary and competitive salary and fringe benefits.

Contact
For further information please contact Dr.ir. J.H.A. Kiel (tel.
+31-224-564590, or mailto:kiel@ecn.nl) or Dr.ing. J. Prij (tel.
+31-224-564658, or mailto:prij@ecn.nl). You can also e-mail your application
and curriculum vitae to either of these persons, or send it to the following
address:
Netherlands Energy Research Foundation, ECN
Business Unit ECN Biomass
P.O. Box 1
1755 ZG Petten
The Netherlands

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
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From snkm at btl.net Sun Sep 24 10:05:57 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Power From Solar Heat (1913)
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000924075901.009452c0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Folks -- the list has been kind of slow lately. I know the following is off
topic -- but just went through the chore of scanning this all in. figured
some of the old timers on this list will get a chuckle or two out of it.

So -- a blast from the past ---

Peter Singfield
Belize

****************************************

OK --- Scanned in from my:

"Marks Mechanical Engineers Handbook"

Published: 1924 (MacGraw-Hill Book Company)

POWER FROM SOLAR HEAT

The heat received per minute from the sun on 1 sq. ft. of surface normal to
the sun’s rays above the atmosphere of the earth amounts to 7.12 B.t.u.
(0.168 h.p. per sq. ft.), but, before reaching the earth where it can be
utilized, part of this heat is absorbed by water vapor and dust suspended
in the, atmosphere. In vast areas in the tropics and in certain
semi-tropical and arid sections (e.g., Arizona, Egypt), however, the air is
dry and clear, this loss is small, and sun power can be profitably produced
provided coal is very expensive and the cost of the considerable land area
required for a plant is low.

A. S. E. Ackermann (Jour. Roy. Soc. Arts, Apr. 30, 1915) states the
theoretical thermal efficiency of a solar heat absorber to be e = [Dsa — pk
* (T to the 4 rth — 2/3A to the 4 rth) — (1 — r)Dsa]/Dsa, where:

D = width of reflector, ft.;

s = solar constant = 7.12 B.t.u. per sq. ft. per mm.;

a = coefficient of atmospheric transmission = 0.7;

p = perimeter of boiler, ft.;

k = boiler radiation constant 10 to the minus 16 * 0.36 B.t.u. per sq. ft.
per mm.;

T = boiler temperature, deg. fahr. abs.;

A = temperature of reflectors, deg. fahr. abs. (= atmos. temp. + 9 deg.);

r = efficiency of silvered glass as a reflector of heat — taken as 0.6.

Also, theoretical overall thermal efficiency of a sun-power plant = e1 = e
* (T — 568)/T, where 568 is the absolute temperature of the condenser, deg.
fahr. (assumed constant).

In the Cairo plant, D = 12.67 ft. and p 2.92 ft. Assuming A 561 deg. and
solving equation for e1 for various values of T and plotting the results,
it is found that the maximum value for e, (5.9 per cent.) is obtained when
T = 231 deg. (= 692 deg. abs.) or the temperature for a steam pressure of
21 lb. abs. The actual maximum overall efficiency of the plant was found to
be 4.32 per cent., showing that about 75 per cent, of the boiler h.p.
theoretically possible was obtained.

In a 50-b.h.p. plant installed in 1913 at Cairo, Egypt, by Frank Shumann
(Manchester Assn. of Engrs., March 14, 1914), the sun’s rays are
concentrated on the flat bottom of a cast-iron boiler by silvered panes of
ordinary window glass arranged in frames so as to form approximate
parabolic reflectors, which frames are so geared that the engine (working
through a friction clutch governed by a thermostatic device) intermittently
turns them and keeps them facing the sun throughout its course during the
entire day. This boiler generates steam at atmospheric pressure (14.7 lb.
per sq. in.) which is utilized in a specially designed condensing engine
that yields 1 b.h.p. on a consump­tion of 22 lb. of steam. (For larger
plants the use of low-pressure turbines is proposed.)

When the sun is obscured by clouds the engine will continue to generate
power economically until the pressure drops to about 4 lb. abs. To provide
power over rainy spells of 2 or 3 days, additional plant must be provided
to heat water to 212 deg. for storage in insulated tanks. The latitude of
Cairo is 30 deg. N.; at a location 1000 miles nearer the equator the Cairo
plant would yield 65 b.h.p.

The steam-producing part of the Cairo plant cost $7600. With interest and
depreciation at 10 per cent., the annual charge would be $760. An
equivalent coal-burning plant with stack, boiler and buildings would cost
$3750, and the annual charge at the same rate would be $375, or $385 less
than for the sun-power plant. Assuming a coal consumption of 2 lb. per
b.h.p. hour, the fuel annually required for 365 ten-hour days would amount
to 163 long tons.

That is, the sun-power plant will compete on an even basis with a
coal-burning plant using coal costing but ($385/163 =) $2.36 per long ton.
For particulars regarding sun-power plants using less efficient heat
absorbers consisting of shallow, glass-covered, water-filled wooden basins
of large area, and also the use of ether or sulphur dioxide as the working
fluid instead of steam, see articles by Messrs. Shumann and H. E. Willsie,
Eng. News, May 13, 1909. A brief sketch of former efforts to utilize solar
energy, and a bibliography of the subject, are included in the paper by Mr.
Ackermann cited above.

*****************************************

HOT-AIR ENGINES

Hot-air engines are heat engines in which air is employed as the working
substance, operating in the Stirling or Ericsson cycles (see p. 327) or
modifications of them. Their bulk per h.p. of capacity is great as compared
to steam or gas engines and their efficiency low. They find use, however,
in small sizes for domestic pumping work. Bryan Donkin (“ Gas, Oil and Air
Engines”) gives the following data on such motors:

Cyl. Stroke
Engine dia in. in. Rpm Ihp BHP Lb. fuel per hr. per
Ihp Bhp
Buckett 24.0 16.0 61 20.20 14.40 1.8 2.5
Beniér 13.4 13.8 117 5.80 4.00 8.1 8.6
Bailey 14.6 6.9 106 2.40 1.30 4.2 7.6
Rider 6.7 9.5 138 0.81 0.23

The actual thermal efficiency of the Buckett engine, assuming the fuel
(coke) to have a calorific value of 12,000 B.t.u. per lb., is 2546/(2.5 X
12,000) = 8.48 per cent. Similarly, that of the Bailey engine is 2.8 per
cent. A steam engine of the size and speed of the Buckett engine, with a
mean effective pressure of but 30 lb. per sq. in., would develop over three
times the indicated horse power.

***********************

There -- that should keep you busy. If you could you get the refs referred
to here:

"For particulars regarding sun-power plants using less efficient heat
absorbers consisting of shallow, glass-covered, water-filled wooden basins
of large area, and also the use of ether or sulphur dioxide as the working
fluid instead of steam, see articles by Messrs. Shumann and H. E. Willsie,
Eng. News, May 13, 1909. A brief sketch of former efforts to utilize solar
energy, and a bibliography of the subject, are included in the paper by Mr.
Ackermann cited above."

Probably would answer a lot of questions regarding refrigeration working
fluid "boilers" and power plants.

Peter

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From costich at pacifier.com Sun Sep 24 12:14:13 2000
From: costich at pacifier.com (Dale Costich)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Power From Solar Heat (2000)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000924075901.009452c0@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <000901c02643$9a506c00$82e091c6@pacifier.com>

Peter, I'll pick up your thread to contribute pictures of my 12' dia solar
parabolic cooker (cooks 1 cup of rice in ~30 minutes without burning)...and
stirlings that generate approximately 5 voltamps that when fed to a laptop
backlight fluorescent oscillator/driver/tube produce a generous (3000
Kelvin) illumination to read with on dark rainy days.
If there is a human interested in solar/renewable energies, and this pushes
the envelope of list discussion...don't hesitate to contact me "off
list"...please don't accuse me of "selling" anything here...god
forbid...look at your own risk!
http://costich.tripod.com
Dale
Brush Prairie, Wa

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 5:59 AM
Subject: GAS-L: Power From Solar Heat (1913)

>
> Folks -- the list has been kind of slow lately. I know the following is
off
> topic -- but just went through the chore of scanning this all in. figured
> some of the old timers on this list will get a chuckle or two out of it.
>
> So -- a blast from the past ---
>
> Peter Singfield
> Belize
>
> ****************************************
>
> OK --- Scanned in from my:
>
> "Marks Mechanical Engineers Handbook"
>
> Published: 1924 (MacGraw-Hill Book Company)
>
>
> POWER FROM SOLAR HEAT
>
> The heat received per minute from the sun on 1 sq. ft. of surface normal
to
> the sun's rays above the atmosphere of the earth amounts to 7.12 B.t.u.
> (0.168 h.p. per sq. ft.), but, before reaching the earth where it can be
> utilized, part of this heat is absorbed by water vapor and dust suspended
> in the, atmosphere. In vast areas in the tropics and in certain
> semi-tropical and arid sections (e.g., Arizona, Egypt), however, the air
is
> dry and clear, this loss is small, and sun power can be profitably
produced
> provided coal is very expensive and the cost of the considerable land area
> required for a plant is low.
>
> A. S. E. Ackermann (Jour. Roy. Soc. Arts, Apr. 30, 1915) states the
> theoretical thermal efficiency of a solar heat absorber to be e = [Dsa -
pk
> * (T to the 4 rth - 2/3A to the 4 rth) - (1 - r)Dsa]/Dsa, where:
>
> D = width of reflector, ft.;
>
> s = solar constant = 7.12 B.t.u. per sq. ft. per mm.;
>
> a = coefficient of atmospheric transmission = 0.7;
>
> p = perimeter of boiler, ft.;
>
> k = boiler radiation constant 10 to the minus 16 * 0.36 B.t.u. per sq. ft.
> per mm.;
>
> T = boiler temperature, deg. fahr. abs.;
>
> A = temperature of reflectors, deg. fahr. abs. (= atmos. temp. + 9 deg.);
>
> r = efficiency of silvered glass as a reflector of heat - taken as 0.6.
>
> Also, theoretical overall thermal efficiency of a sun-power plant = e1 = e
> * (T - 568)/T, where 568 is the absolute temperature of the condenser,
deg.
> fahr. (assumed constant).
>
> In the Cairo plant, D = 12.67 ft. and p 2.92 ft. Assuming A 561 deg. and
> solving equation for e1 for various values of T and plotting the results,
> it is found that the maximum value for e, (5.9 per cent.) is obtained when
> T = 231 deg. (= 692 deg. abs.) or the temperature for a steam pressure of
> 21 lb. abs. The actual maximum overall efficiency of the plant was found
to
> be 4.32 per cent., showing that about 75 per cent, of the boiler h.p.
> theoretically possible was obtained.
>
> In a 50-b.h.p. plant installed in 1913 at Cairo, Egypt, by Frank Shumann
> (Manchester Assn. of Engrs., March 14, 1914), the sun's rays are
> concentrated on the flat bottom of a cast-iron boiler by silvered panes of
> ordinary window glass arranged in frames so as to form approximate
> parabolic reflectors, which frames are so geared that the engine (working
> through a friction clutch governed by a thermostatic device)
intermittently
> turns them and keeps them facing the sun throughout its course during the
> entire day. This boiler generates steam at atmospheric pressure (14.7 lb.
> per sq. in.) which is utilized in a specially designed condensing engine
> that yields 1 b.h.p. on a consump­tion of 22 lb. of steam. (For larger
> plants the use of low-pressure turbines is proposed.)
>
> When the sun is obscured by clouds the engine will continue to generate
> power economically until the pressure drops to about 4 lb. abs. To provide
> power over rainy spells of 2 or 3 days, additional plant must be provided
> to heat water to 212 deg. for storage in insulated tanks. The latitude of
> Cairo is 30 deg. N.; at a location 1000 miles nearer the equator the Cairo
> plant would yield 65 b.h.p.
>
> The steam-producing part of the Cairo plant cost $7600. With interest and
> depreciation at 10 per cent., the annual charge would be $760. An
> equivalent coal-burning plant with stack, boiler and buildings would cost
> $3750, and the annual charge at the same rate would be $375, or $385 less
> than for the sun-power plant. Assuming a coal consumption of 2 lb. per
> b.h.p. hour, the fuel annually required for 365 ten-hour days would amount
> to 163 long tons.
>
> That is, the sun-power plant will compete on an even basis with a
> coal-burning plant using coal costing but ($385/163 =) $2.36 per long ton.
> For particulars regarding sun-power plants using less efficient heat
> absorbers consisting of shallow, glass-covered, water-filled wooden basins
> of large area, and also the use of ether or sulphur dioxide as the working
> fluid instead of steam, see articles by Messrs. Shumann and H. E. Willsie,
> Eng. News, May 13, 1909. A brief sketch of former efforts to utilize solar
> energy, and a bibliography of the subject, are included in the paper by
Mr.
> Ackermann cited above.
>
>
> *****************************************
>
> HOT-AIR ENGINES
>
> Hot-air engines are heat engines in which air is employed as the working
> substance, operating in the Stirling or Ericsson cycles (see p. 327) or
> modifications of them. Their bulk per h.p. of capacity is great as
compared
> to steam or gas engines and their efficiency low. They find use, however,
> in small sizes for domestic pumping work. Bryan Donkin (" Gas, Oil and Air
> Engines") gives the following data on such motors:
>
> Cyl. Stroke
> Engine dia in. in. Rpm Ihp BHP Lb. fuel per hr. per
> Ihp Bhp
> Buckett 24.0 16.0 61 20.20 14.40 1.8 2.5
> Beniér 13.4 13.8 117 5.80 4.00 8.1 8.6
> Bailey 14.6 6.9 106 2.40 1.30 4.2 7.6
> Rider 6.7 9.5 138 0.81 0.23
>
> The actual thermal efficiency of the Buckett engine, assuming the fuel
> (coke) to have a calorific value of 12,000 B.t.u. per lb., is 2546/(2.5 X
> 12,000) = 8.48 per cent. Similarly, that of the Bailey engine is 2.8 per
> cent. A steam engine of the size and speed of the Buckett engine, with a
> mean effective pressure of but 30 lb. per sq. in., would develop over
three
> times the indicated horse power.
>
>
> ***********************
>
> There -- that should keep you busy. If you could you get the refs referred
> to here:
>
> "For particulars regarding sun-power plants using less efficient heat
> absorbers consisting of shallow, glass-covered, water-filled wooden basins
> of large area, and also the use of ether or sulphur dioxide as the working
> fluid instead of steam, see articles by Messrs. Shumann and H. E. Willsie,
> Eng. News, May 13, 1909. A brief sketch of former efforts to utilize solar
> energy, and a bibliography of the subject, are included in the paper by
Mr.
> Ackermann cited above."
>
> Probably would answer a lot of questions regarding refrigeration working
> fluid "boilers" and power plants.
>
> Peter
>
>
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
> Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From snkm at btl.net Sun Sep 24 13:20:07 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Power From Solar Heat (2000)
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000924111316.00921190@wgs1.btl.net>

At 09:21 AM 9/24/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Peter, I'll pick up your thread to contribute pictures of my 12' dia solar
>parabolic cooker (cooks 1 cup of rice in ~30 minutes without burning)...and
>stirlings that generate approximately 5 voltamps that when fed to a laptop
>backlight fluorescent oscillator/driver/tube produce a generous (3000
>Kelvin) illumination to read with on dark rainy days.
>If there is a human interested in solar/renewable energies, and this pushes
>the envelope of list discussion...don't hesitate to contact me "off
>list"...please don't accuse me of "selling" anything here...god
>forbid...look at your own risk!
>http://costich.tripod.com
>Dale
>Brush Prairie, Wa

Hi Dale,

I am not getting any closer to realizing a shop to tinker up dreams in.

There certainly is a lot of my tinker dreams out on the WWW though -- have
appended one I just found.

These result in a lot of fellow tinker-nuts from around the world getting
in touch.

took a ride into the Peten of Guatemala couple months back. Flores in Lake
Peten (a small island) plus the shore town -- Santa Elena. This all in the
Tikal ruins are.

Peten province is 3 times the size of Belize. Has a pop of 1.024 million.
94% Indian (Mayan) and 88% of those still living traditional style -
-subsistence agriculture -- and not complaining!!

They have lately built some new asphalt roads -- and this area -- one of
the most "lost" on planet earth just a few years back -- is now readily
accessible.

Finding large pools of oil in the Peten really changed things.

It is now only 6 hours from Flores to Guat City -- and you can get any kind
of device in Guat city for about 1/4 the cost in the US.

I was looking at an 8 HP -- single cylinder -- Chinese diesel in a local
village hardware store -- so end of the line retail -- for $1100 US. That
is those lister knock-offs.

Following the White Sands project -- easy to make that an 8 HP unaflow.

Anyway -- think I have found Shangrila -- 160 miles from my present residence.

Plenty of fresh water -- even in the case of a 100 year drought (as
occurred in the past). No earth quakes, no volcanoes, no hurricanes. And
plenty of people growing food the old way -- so even a complete global
economic shut down does not effect food availability.

That fresh water lake is huge -- perfect for my sail boat.

Now -- just have to sell out and move.

Only problem is so many tourists are now going there. but am sure the world
will end before they can manage to corrupt this area. Though the Greens are
already ganging up to take the land from the Indians and make "parks".
These same Indians that sacrificed 500 plus of their lives to stop the
Guats and the US multinationals from doing the same -- with the help of
Ray-gun -- just a few years ago.

Think the Greens will meet their match this time -- thank the Lord!!

Only a matter of time before the global economy collapses -- and then the
Greens will be history -- just like the inquisitionists during the dark
ages of European history -- where that time-line religious nuts went around
killing and tormenting all the good folks.

The sooner the better I say --

Start planting bigger gardens Dale!

Peter

******************************************

http://ambergriscaye.com/BzLibrary/trust39.html

REPORT #39 Jan 1999
UNIFLOW STEAM ENGINES USING MEXICAN BUTANE ARE A PRACTICAL HOME MADE
REAL GENERATOR POWER SOURCE CAPABLE OF BEING MADE IN BELIZE.
Produced by the Belize Development Trust

Below is a list of machine tools for the shop and method of
construction of a Uniflow Steam Engine system. ( Information
collected from the fertile mind of retired Canadian Engineer Peter
Singfield living the Mayan village of Xaibe in northern Belize.)

MACHINE SHOP REQUIREMENTS
A basic "prototype shop:

* The lathe like I had in Montreal, was a 48 in centers, 8 inch
over the table -- 16 with throat out -- full metric and NC
threading -- 5/10,000 min accuracy. Automatic feeds of course but
manual tail stock.

This is your standard Taiwan copy of a 1895 Southbend -- but
improved. Used to cost around $3000 new with 4 jaw and 3 jaw +
couple face plates and live centers etc.

* Plus the tooling -- high speed steel for aluminum and brass and
stainless steel. Carbides, boring bars, drill chuck for head
stock. Tapered drills, reams -- well you know the list.
* Milling machine: Combination boring bar and vertical milling
machine. Taiwan again -- round $2000. Again tooling.
* Metal Band saw -- 6 inch. can be used as a small bandsaw. Around
$200. But get a couple of good bimetal blades ($50 each).
* One basic drill press.
* Air compressor -- I like to use surplus refrigeration compressors
with high pressure storage -- like 250 PSI -- then regulated to
user pressure. No variation in line pressure that way.
* electric welder -- AC/DC
* Torches/cutting torch
* Bench Grinder- Stone for grinding carbides.
* Numerous hand tools.

Anyway -- you get the idea -- to be able to build just about any
device --

--------------------------------------------------------------------

What to build:
The solar powered boiler -- Using Butane as the working fluid there
is no need to concentrate the solar energy to "amplify" the operating
temperature.

Ergo -- the solar collector is just a hot water heater -- best would
be aluminum roofing that we can "anodise" here. That will give better
than 80% absorption efficiency. Anodised aluminum being the best
"black-surface". This is the solar facing side of your solar water
heater.

The "cold" side of this thermodynamic engine would be a simple copper
tube immersed in this hot water bath. Here the pumped/circulating
butane (liguid when coming in and vapour when coming out) would
absorb the "heat" to reach vapour phase for that pressure. An
incredible increase in volume.

>From here is goes to a simple "uni-flow" steam engines.

>From the exhaust of the Uniflow is goes to the hot side -- that is
where the hot gets cooled. This can be in the shade under the solar
collector or in a well.

I did measurements. Black object easily reaches 145 deg. F, in the
sun here. The shade is normally less than 95 F. That gives us a delta
T (change in temperature) of 50 deg. Plenty!!

Later I can show you the math -- that tells us how much H.P. we can
get from what size solar collector. It works out very nice!!

Uniflo engines were invented just before turbines became common. It
was the highest efficiency "piston" steam engines ever built. Got
lost when turbines were introduced. Present advantage -- easy to
build here in Belize!!

I plan to "cast" the cylinders from cast iron. A very cheap material
here. Easy to make up a foundry for.

Uniflow designs are really well suited for compression/pumping --
they were used exactly for that purpose turn of the century -- for
refrigeration, pumping water, compressed air for mines -- etc. In
these style applications very high efficiency as there is no need to
convert from linear to rotary motion.

In my prototype shop in Montreal I once designed and build a "linear"
alternator. This is quite simple. I used a simple car altenator --
but instead of rotating the armature I simple passed it back and
forth through the stationary fields -- along the axis. I had two
bushings supporting it in the center so it could reciprocate 4
inches. If you do this at 3600 rpm you get 60 cycle AC current. There
is a unique property in using steam (or butane vapour) in that to
reverse direction no energy is expended (or very little lost) as in
the uniflow design you simply compress part of the charge in the
apposing cyclinder where the power of stopping is saved and given
back when uncompressing into the other direction -- including the
"power" of an injection of steam.

And the list goes on and on ---

If you ever get down here we'll have fun!! Wait till I tell you about
my ideas to make a "Air" shotgun. Like a pellet gun but using 2000
PSI air pressure to fire a 12 gauge charge of pellets at around 900
ft per second!!

I have a whole list of "third world" projects. That is devices that
third world people not only would really like to have -- but could
afford to buy.

I built a prototype uniflow "contruction" compressor once that was
powerd by a water/steam boiler fed by chopped up chunks of car tires.
You know -- one car tire has 300,000 BTU of heat energy in it. And
this thing does not "smoke". Thought it would be great for compressed
air for jack hammers etc.

This can also be applied to a very large hydraulic pump -- like in
running a hydraulic shovel.

Or to a meat freezer made out of a semi-trailer reefer rig. Simply
substitute the uniflow pump for the reefer compressor. If I remember
-- it would need about one 15 inch car tire per hour for full
capacity.

I also keep thinking of wave action power supplies. For those living
by the sea.

And I have a couple of ideas on how to make some simple egg-beater
style "vertical" windmills for where there is steady winds.

That is by casting chicken wire in ureathane high density foam inside
of plastic molds.

Oh -- no one is recycling the toms of plastic thrown into the garbage
here. Yet every dump here has people practically living in them to
scavage anything they can. Would be easy to make cheap recyled
plastic here.

Oh -- the list goes on -- if only people were more engineering
oriented!! That is what happened in Taiwan you know. 50 years ago
they were more backward than Belize -- a lot more -- then we started
seeing all kinds showing up at McGill University in Montreal -- all
taking Engineering courses.

Hey Terry -- believe me -- that is the only answer to successful
intrigration of third world into modern world -- a very good supply
of young, sharp, engineers.

Not more civil servants and clerks -- or even welders, mechanics,
carpenters or clerks! But engineers!

[IMAGE][1] Back to Main Belize Development Trust Page[2]

Maintained by [IMAGE]Ray Auxillou[3], Silvia Pinzon, MLS[4], and
Marty Casado[5]. Please email with suggestions or additions.

*** References from this document ***

[orig] http://ambergriscaye.com/BzLibrary/trust39.html
[1] http://ambergriscaye.com/BzLibrary/trust.html
[2] http://ambergriscaye.com/BzLibrary/trust.html
[3] mailto:belizedvtrust@justice.com
[4] mailto:spinzon@mdcc.edu
[5] mailto:Marty@Casado.net

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From snkm at btl.net Sun Sep 24 13:29:25 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Power From Solar Heat (2000)
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000924111713.00920200@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Sorry Folks -- that message was not supposed to have gone to this list --

But only to Dale --

Disregard it totally!!

Peter

At 09:21 AM 9/24/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Peter, I'll pick up your thread to contribute pictures of my 12' dia solar
>parabolic cooker (cooks 1 cup of rice in ~30 minutes without burning)...and
>stirlings that generate approximately 5 voltamps that when fed to a laptop
>backlight fluorescent oscillator/driver/tube produce a generous (3000
>Kelvin) illumination to read with on dark rainy days.
>If there is a human interested in solar/renewable energies, and this pushes
>the envelope of list discussion...don't hesitate to contact me "off
>list"...please don't accuse me of "selling" anything here...god
>forbid...look at your own risk!
>http://costich.tripod.com
>Dale
>Brush Prairie, Wa

Hi Dale,

I am not getting any closer to realizing a shop to tinker up dreams in.
*************snipped************
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From LINVENT at aol.com Sun Sep 24 19:14:55 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Power From Solar Heat (2000)
Message-ID: <47.1352834.26ffe499@aol.com>

Dear Peter and others,
How about the solar "rectifier" that directly rectifies light into DC
voltage? Theoretically 80% efficient? Very small junctions with high
impedance or frequency isolation. I understand it was done once with a
catwhisker type junction.

Tom Taylor
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From snkm at btl.net Mon Sep 25 11:21:01 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Power From Solar Heat (2000)
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000925091349.008cc130@wgs1.btl.net>

At 07:13 PM 9/24/00 EDT, you wrote:
>Dear Peter and others,
> How about the solar "rectifier" that directly rectifies light into DC
>voltage? Theoretically 80% efficient? Very small junctions with high
>impedance or frequency isolation. I understand it was done once with a
>catwhisker type junction.
>

Interesting Tom;

Appears the solar proponents are just as bogged down as the gasifiers.

I believe the most common method of solar energy conversion will remain the
burning of wood. All the rest is simply no longer part of the "agenda".

They survive "well" in the Peten by living in traditional style -- that is
subsistence agriculture. Under the direction of their Acoldi (Mayor) small
patches of jungles are opened up for agriculture. This is cut down. The
larger parts of wood are dragged to the sides. All is allowed to dry. The
branches and rest is burned to surface sterilize the ground (no
insecticides or herbicides needed this way). The woman of the village with
their children continually chop up the bigger parts to the side and carry
them to the village for fuel.

They have been living "well" this way for 10,000 or more years. Around here
-- 10 acres is enough for a rotational production of food -- with some left
over for trade -- for a family of five - forever and one day.

This is a gardening of the jungles. Wild life becomes so plentiful due to
the continuous browsing offered that the Maya never run short of fresh Game
meat. This they trap or snare.

It might not be all that efficient as far as recuperating all available
energy. Yet it works well with the minimum of equipments. It causes no
pollution. The people living in such manner live to healthy old age due to
good food and good exercise.

It is also the most "green" manner that a human can ever live by.

And it goes without saying -- modern "Greens" want to stop this "life"
practice.

The only hope is that modern world self destructs first.

I have no confusion regarding which side I stand for.

I like all the wizz bang techy stuff -- but find the culture using these
devices rather obnoxious in regards to being a healthy human species. To
bad we can't have one without the other. Build at least a little
"shangrila" -- but it certainly appears not meant to be.

Shangrila will continue to exist in China, India, and other such parts that
are more closely in tune with the nature of things.

The part of this planet dominated by what we call modern civilization is
hopelessly corrupted in their natural attitudes. We need only sit back and
watch Nature re-adjust this playing field.

Sometime before that last barrel of crude is pumped.

I - on the other hand - am developing an apatite for game meat and other
100% organic foods.

I imagine many others in this present world are simply still trying to get
rich enough in the illusion that money will allow them to "cheat" their
destiny???

Another solar powered device that I relate well to is my small, local
style, fishing/sailing sloop. You can see pictures of this device over at:

http://www.belize1.com/reefcrawl/index.html

And if you are curious how we "primitives" maintain health (though that is
much less of a problem when one eats right, lives right) check out this Url:

http://www.wireworm.com/snkm/index.htm

I guess you could call that solar powered medicines and not be so far from
the truth.

It is all in ones perspective. Mine has a low quotient of mass media hype.

Good luck everyone -- may all your rides to self sufficiency come to a
happy ending.

Live long and Prosper.

Peter

Belize

>Tom Taylor
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
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>
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From snkm at btl.net Wed Sep 27 11:53:49 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000927094536.0093d630@wgs1.btl.net>

 

OK folks -- check out this device:

http://www.stmcorporation.com/multiheat.htm

As it is external combustion -- should be suited to gasifiers with to much
tar.

40% over all efficiencies -- 60 HP per liter capacity -- I kid you not!

 

Peter Singfield
Belize
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From jsmeenk at iastate.edu Wed Sep 27 15:36:36 2000
From: jsmeenk at iastate.edu (Jerod Smeenk)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000927094536.0093d630@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000927142645.00aa8100@jsmeenk.mail.iastate.edu>

Peter and list,

I agree that the multi-heat engine of STM Corporation appears to be a good
match to gasifiers. Because of this belief, we at Iowa State spoke with
STM about purchasing or leasing an engine to couple to our
gasifier. Unfortunately, the cost of either purchase or lease was too high
to justify moving ahead with a test program. We are hoping the cost of the
engine becomes more reasonable.

Jerod

 

At 09:47 AM 9/27/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>OK folks -- check out this device:
>
>http://www.stmcorporation.com/multiheat.htm
>
>
>As it is external combustion -- should be suited to gasifiers with to much
>tar.
>
>40% over all efficiencies -- 60 HP per liter capacity -- I kid you not!
>
>
>
>Peter Singfield
>Belize
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
>Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
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>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerod Smeenk Phone: (515) 294-6402
Iowa State University Fax: (515) 294-3261
1043 Black Engineering E-mail: jsmeenk@iastate.edu
Ames, IA 50011

The Gasification List is sponsored by
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From jgordes at earthlink.net Wed Sep 27 17:27:04 2000
From: jgordes at earthlink.net (jgordes)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Emissions from Gasification-fired Prime Movers
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000925091349.008cc130@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000927172028.00a84500@127.0.0.1>

Dear All,

In terms of most common toxic air emission such as SOx, NOx, VOCs and CO as
well as mercury and CO2, does anyone have any measured figures for these
from gasifier-sourced diesels, turbines or boiler technologies? I would
much appreciate any information which the group might be able to supply or
steer me toward.

Thank you,
Joel N. Gordes
Joel N. Gordes
Environmental Energy Solutions
P.O. Box 101
Riverton, CT 06065
(860) 379-2430

"Dedicated to executing ideas, not killing them!"

Be sure to visit our web site at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jgordes

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From LINVENT at aol.com Wed Sep 27 18:26:59 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
Message-ID: <e2.a467c46.2703cd9d@aol.com>

What was the cost of the motors? I presume that the STM means Stirling
Technical Motors? Nice units, will do very well against the microturbines
for a large number of reasons. There is also an Australian outfit which has a
few moving part engine which appears to be a nice option. Anyone know about
them?

Tom Taylor
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From bywateri at southern.co.nz Wed Sep 27 19:35:46 2000
From: bywateri at southern.co.nz (Ian Bywater)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
In-Reply-To: <e2.a467c46.2703cd9d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B5F8D855.29D4%bywateri@southern.co.nz>

on 28/9/00 10:24 AM, LINVENT@aol.com at LINVENT@aol.com wrote:

> There is also an Australian outfit which has a
> few moving part engine which appears to be a nice option. Anyone know about
> them?

Yes, Tom. I think you refer to Whisper Tech Ltd., Christchurch, New
Zealand.

See www.whispertech.co.nz

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From VHarris001 at aol.com Thu Sep 28 00:01:36 2000
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
Message-ID: <c9.8ddf09d.27041be8@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/27/2000 11:54:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, snkm@btl.net
writes:

> OK folks -- check out this device:
>
> http://www.stmcorporation.com/multiheat.htm
>
>
> As it is external combustion -- should be suited to gasifiers with to much
> tar.
>
> 40% over all efficiencies -- 60 HP per liter capacity -- I kid you not!
>
>
>
> Peter Singfield
> Belize

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the link. The ingenuity of man never ceases to amaze me. I hope
this technology is further developed, refined and - implemented - *before*
cheap oil finally goes away.

Best always,
Vernon
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From jsmeenk at iastate.edu Thu Sep 28 11:15:49 2000
From: jsmeenk at iastate.edu (Jerod Smeenk)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
In-Reply-To: <e2.a467c46.2703cd9d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000928084117.00ae3100@jsmeenk.mail.iastate.edu>

STM Corporation, formerly Stirling Thermal Motors Inc., appears to be
caught in a chicken and egg scenario with respect to sales and sale
price. They claim to have a commercially ready engine (for fossil fuels),
and it appears that they do. However, they are trying to recoup their R&D
costs in the sale of their first few engines (small scale production)
instead of recouping the costs through the sale of many engines (large
scale production). At this point they have been putting cost recovery
before sales.

About a year ago, STM quoted us a sale price of $50,000 for a 25 kW engine
that was intended for natural gas. We would have had to make the necessary
modifications to adapt it to producer gas. We pursued leasing as an
alternative, but they were still asking $5,000/month.

We are still hopeful that the Stirling technology will succeed, as it does
have numerous advantages to other prime movers when coupling with a
gasifier. . . . but in our eyes, cost will have to come down considerably.

Does anyone else have experience working with STM Corporation or any other
company selling Stirling engines?

Jerod

At 06:24 PM 9/27/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>What was the cost of the motors? I presume that the STM means Stirling
>Technical Motors? Nice units, will do very well against the microturbines
>for a large number of reasons. There is also an Australian outfit which has a
>few moving part engine which appears to be a nice option. Anyone know about
>them?
>
>Tom Taylor
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
>Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
>http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerod Smeenk Phone: (515) 294-6402
Iowa State University Fax: (515) 294-3261
1043 Black Engineering E-mail: jsmeenk@iastate.edu
Ames, IA 50011

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From LINVENT at aol.com Thu Sep 28 11:36:40 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: fossil fuel prices
Message-ID: <54.9e5d3de.2704bec0@aol.com>

Peter Singfield,
Aha, the entire crux of the alternative fuels industry is "when high fuel
prices go away". Everyone is waiting for this or not. The oil industry has
been burnt so much in the past by the cycling of prices that they are taking
a wait and see attitude also, leaving prices in the upper stratosphere. The
gov't is likewise trying to keep the domestic industry on it's butt by
keeping prices down in an election year and keeping us from realizing our
visions by releasing oil from the SOR. What happened to Lassize-Faire and
real progress dictated by economics, not government intervention?
By the way to those who know about the wispertech site, I could not load
it.

Tom Taylor
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From melanie at www.cytechcis.net Thu Sep 28 11:56:42 2000
From: melanie at www.cytechcis.net (Tom Steigelmann)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: turbo chargers
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000928115602.007c44b0@mail.cytechcis.net>

Dear gasifiers,

Has anyone done projects involving automobile turbochargers hooked up to an
alternator as a method of harnessing small scale steam power to electricity
conversion??

The junkyard sells the turbos of off wrecked cars fairly cheaply, and the
turbos are already designed to function in a hot and corrosive environment.
Furthermore, their original intent is to convert pressurized hot exhaust
into mechanical energy. Sounds very similar to the conversion we are
trying to achieve.

I would be interested your thoughts and opinions.

Thank You
Tom Steigelmann
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From LINVENT at aol.com Thu Sep 28 12:45:53 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
Message-ID: <5d.1331fe9.2704cf09@aol.com>

Dear Jarod,
We have had contact with Stirling and other motor companies. I believe
that Sandia National Laboratory had a stirling engine for use with their
solar facility.
From our experience, they did not return the phone calls and were
non-responsive to questions and we could not even get the pricing which is
interesting that they are now even quoting.
Cost will be a major factor in the chicken and egg scenario. This often
becomes a factor when someone else enters the market and competitive forces
arise or else someone decides to go after a large marketing effort. Even
with that, recouping the investment takes more than a few motors even at $50k
to accomplish.

Sincerely,

Leland T. Taylor
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From snkm at btl.net Thu Sep 28 12:49:57 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000928095927.009428d0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

>See www.whispertech.co.nz

Doesn't work!! Could you give us the right Url??

Sounds very interesting --

Peter/Belize

At 11:34 AM 9/28/00 +1200, you wrote:
>on 28/9/00 10:24 AM, LINVENT@aol.com at LINVENT@aol.com wrote:
>
>> There is also an Australian outfit which has a
>> few moving part engine which appears to be a nice option. Anyone know
about
>> them?
>
>Yes, Tom. I think you refer to Whisper Tech Ltd., Christchurch, New
>Zealand.
>
>See www.whispertech.co.nz
>
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
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>
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From LINVENT at aol.com Thu Sep 28 13:02:45 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:42 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
Message-ID: <4b.160a26b.2704d305@aol.com>

 

In a message dated 9/28/00 9:50:00 AM, snkm@btl.net writes:

<< whispertech.co.nz >>
I found it at:
http://www.whispergen.com/whispfaq.htm
A list of the FAQ's which also has installations and so on listed on it.
Tom Taylor
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From english at adan.kingston.net Thu Sep 28 13:03:06 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
Message-ID: <200009281702.NAA10711@adan.kingston.net>

 

Hi Peter and all,
Have a look at my low tech, hi performance, batch load, top down,
50 kW thermal gasifier based on Tom Reeds IDD charcoal making stove.
It doesn't get any easier.

http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/bigtop/bigtop.htm

With a few burner modifications it would couple to the STM
(Stirling Thermal Motors) engine quite nicely.

Do you grow dry wood pellets down in Belize? ;)

Alex

> > http://www.stmcorporation.com/multiheat.htm
> >
> >
> > As it is external combustion -- should be suited to gasifiers with to much
> > tar.
> >
> > 40% over all efficiencies -- 60 HP per liter capacity -- I kid you not!
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter Singfield
> > Belize
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for the link. The ingenuity of man never ceases to amaze me. I hope
> this technology is further developed, refined and - implemented - *before*
> cheap oil finally goes away.
>
> Best always,
> Vernon
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
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>
>

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From LINVENT at aol.com Thu Sep 28 13:06:29 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: turbo chargers
Message-ID: <e8.a6e786c.2704d3df@aol.com>

Dear Mr. Stiegelmann,
Try coupling a 75,000 rpm shaft to an alternator. Turbochargers actually
turn slower than that, but you would have to be able to accomodate that speed
when the car downshifts or goes into neutral under full throttle. Let me know
how you do.
The Allied Signal/Honeywell microturbines operate at this speed. One
piece shaft with lots of careful design and balancing.
Tom Taylor
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From snkm at btl.net Thu Sep 28 13:20:44 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Micro Systems?????
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000928105335.00937210@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Hi Tom;

I agree 100% with what you are stating here. And it is the reason I would
love to be able to get into the micro-power supply arena.

That is a 5 kw power plant -- based on biomass -- high efficiency -- and
selling for $400 per kw capacity -- $2000. Present pricing is $10,000 plus!!

I see no reason why that can't be accomplished using present state of the
art -- and mass production.

The "engine" is the throttle point. Yet I still see no problem in making a
simple, single cylinder, Unaflow steam engine with a flash tube boiler to
power that generator at a very economical cost. And a simple gasifier --
without all the complications of gas cleaning and cooling to fire it.

One should be able to see at least 15% over all efficiencies.

Probably can be achieved by having China manufacture. Start with using the
"base" of their single cylinder Lister Knock-off 8HP diesel. Then a unaflow
cylinder with pop valve.

This would be aimed at 3rd world -- but certainly would sell a lot in
modern world.

Then develop onwards and upwards from that base line. Binary working fluids
-- as an after fit (refrigerant boiler - unaflow -- same engine again)
would further use waste heats to increase over all efficiencies to better
than 30%.

In other words - the same amount of biomass would give double the power. A
retrofit that could be installed as required -- when required.

Small is beautiful --

Meanwhile we stagnate because everyone wants "huge". Large amounts of
capital investment has been squandered to no result in profits. The entire
field of endeavor has a bad reputation as a business venture now.

Gasification, this turn of the wheel, started to large and to exotic.
Better if we had stayed at the level of WWII systems.

Innovation for putting this technology back on the playing field will be
dependent on countries such as India and China. China as manufacturer of
mechanical components and India for the inspiration to simplify design.

I do not regard diesel supplementing a viable alternative. That diesel fuel
becomes to expensive.

The first compromise may well be converting successfully that Chinese
diesel to 100% producer gas operation. But the cost of gas conditioning is
prohibitive.

Whatever -- I "feel" that the modern nations pushing gasification are
simply out of the formula due to high costs and over complications and
their love affair with large plants.

Micro power plants using 100% biomass can be the salvation for the rest of
the world. Modern countries such as the US -- they will collapse in any
event once the price of oil goes to high. To survive such an apocalypse
they would have to learn to cut energy consumption dramatically -- now!!
And we all know that is impossible under the capitalist system presently
ruling the roost.

>What happened to Lassize-Faire and
>real progress dictated by economics, not government intervention?

Gone to grave yards every where -- along with free enterprise.

Do you even think it is possible to find start up money for a venture as I
describe above??

I doubt it seriously. You know why?? Because less than $50,000 US would
fund the entire operation (by 3rd world standards) and that is far to small
an amount to interest "moderns".

We have trapped ourselves again --

Maybe the next turn of this wheel -- post apocalyptic -- that is. A 1000 or
more years into the future -- if we are lucky and do not nuke the planet in
the death throws of the present collapse of "civilization".

Anything for a buck -- right.

Peter Singfield

Belize

At 11:33 AM 9/28/00 EDT, you wrote:
>Peter Singfield,
> Aha, the entire crux of the alternative fuels industry is "when high
fuel
>prices go away". Everyone is waiting for this or not. The oil industry has
>been burnt so much in the past by the cycling of prices that they are taking
>a wait and see attitude also, leaving prices in the upper stratosphere. The
>gov't is likewise trying to keep the domestic industry on it's butt by
>keeping prices down in an election year and keeping us from realizing our
>visions by releasing oil from the SOR. What happened to Lassize-Faire and
>real progress dictated by economics, not government intervention?
> By the way to those who know about the wispertech site, I could not load
>it.
>
>Tom Taylor
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
>Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
>http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>
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From edeaver101 at rcn.com Thu Sep 28 14:09:00 2000
From: edeaver101 at rcn.com (Eric Deaver)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Micro Systems?????
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000928105335.00937210@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <002001c02976$989a4260$fbdfa4d8@default>

Peter - I am a moderately successful small business owner. I live in
Loudoun County VA. I am a geologist and understand only some of your field.
I have been through AAE's week long course and have a very good friend that
is a PhD (and also business owner) in Energy Engineering.

Now that my introduction is over, I have an opportunity to hopefully fund a
business similar to the one you suggest. Here is the deal - we have almost
20,000 horses in Loudoun County (mostly the western half). They are
proximal to each other. Each horse generates 40lb of manure each day. Many
of the farms use pine chips and/or sawdust as bedding material. I can get
and average of about $0.03 / kWh for any electricity I can generate.

I have done some basic calculations on digesters coupled with a
microturbine. The numbers I have come up with do not even come close.

I am now interested in either methanol production or gasification.

Any suggestions? Money is available - although not in unlimited amounts.

Regards,

Eric Deaver

The Gasification List is sponsored by
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From edeaver101 at rcn.com Thu Sep 28 14:21:58 2000
From: edeaver101 at rcn.com (Eric Deaver)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Micro Systems?????
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000928105335.00937210@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <004201c02978$6c443e80$fbdfa4d8@default>

My apologies to the list - that was obviously meant to go just to Peter but
now that it is out there - any ideas?

Eric (watch that reply all button) Deaver

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From snkm at btl.net Thu Sep 28 15:16:47 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Micro Systems?????
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000928123837.00947940@wgs1.btl.net>

At 02:17 PM 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
>My apologies to the list - that was obviously meant to go just to Peter but
>now that it is out there - any ideas?
>
>Eric (watch that reply all button) Deaver

Hi Eric;

Regarding the horse manure. Using this as fuel to produce electrical power
to sell for .03 cents per kwh is a terrible waste.

You would do a lot better composting this to fertilizer.

If I remember right -- growing mushrooms requires a compost fertilizer
specifically made up of wood and horse manure.

There is a lot of action regarding composting technology these days. Run a
search and you'll be very surprised.

Peter Singfield
The Gasification List is sponsored by
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From VHarris001 at aol.com Thu Sep 28 15:23:33 2000
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Micro Systems?????
Message-ID: <16.2d537fa.2704f40b@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/28/2000 2:08:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
edeaver101@rcn.com writes:

> I have an opportunity to hopefully fund a
> business similar to the one you suggest. Here is the deal - we have almost
> 20,000 horses in Loudoun County (mostly the western half). They are
> proximal to each other. Each horse generates 40lb of manure each day.
Many
> of the farms use pine chips and/or sawdust as bedding material. I can get
> and average of about $0.03 / kWh for any electricity I can generate.
>
> I have done some basic calculations on digesters coupled with a
> microturbine. The numbers I have come up with do not even come close.
>
> I am now interested in either methanol production or gasification.
>
> Any suggestions? Money is available - although not in unlimited amounts.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric Deaver

Hi Eric,

I'm assuming that your project is for financial gain rather than insurance
against potential future catastrophe, so I'll work based on that assumption.

If you choose gasification of the biomass, do you have plans for consuming
the gas? I believe Tom Reed has stated that pyrolysis gas is not well suited
to compression and storage; and pipeline transport is prohibitively expensive
in a btu per linear foot cost analysis. So gasification is generally best
suited to a "consumed when and where produced" model.

That being the case, a gasifier either needs to have biomass transported to
it, -or- the gasifier needs to be transported to where the biomass is. The
preferred option is generally the first. Of course, that means locating a
proper site and obtaining the proper permits and all that . . .

In your case, if the manure is already being collected, transported and
processed (or disposed), then the avoided processing (disposal) costs and the
electric power revenues will be the money stream you have available to build
and operate the gasifier/generator. I believe most who have investigated
this type of operation have concluded that it can only be done successfully
1) on a large scale AND 2) when local government compels biomass generators
to bring their waste materials to the facility. A good financial example
would be a municipal waste incinerator (trash to electricity). Due to
current electric power pricing (based on cheap fuel) and current regulations,
a landfill is nearly always a lower cost option than an incinerator. Request
a copy of the financial statement of the closest incinerator to where you
live and see how the revenues and expenses work out.

Unless there is some other reason your situation would economically differ
from a MSW incinerator, I can't imagine how gasification could be cost
effective over, say, landfilling. Further, if the manure is being composted,
which should be a considerably less expensive option, or land applied (much
less expensive), I'm not sure you can ever get the gasification economic
model to be profitable.

That is, of course, until cheap fuel finally does go away. Depending on who
you ask, that may be a very long time.

On the other hand, if you are concerned about insuring against catastrophe -
failure of the power grid for instance - then the economic model is of little
import. In that case, gasification can be used. I happen to be of the (very
amateurish) opinion that gasification to IC engine combustion technology is
not sufficiently mature to accept a wide range of moist, loose feedstock and
produce a clean, tar-free gas. I find myself more impressed with a
gasification first stage, high temperature combustion second stage to steam
model. That eliminates the problems associated with tars in an IC engine,
and eliminates the need to scrub the gas of those tars.

If you are interested in micro-systems and not concerned with economic
viability, two-stage combustion to steam power seems, at least to me, to be
the most practical solution.

Others here can probably address the methanol question.

Best,
Vernon Harris
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From snkm at btl.net Thu Sep 28 17:10:37 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Whispertec
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000928145229.00951ea0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Well folks -- continuing our review of Stirling engines.

The Whisper Gen

Looks very complicated -- ergo -- expensive.

No efficiency claims -- but from this:

"Output: 750W, 230 Volt AC grid connected, continuous duty,
Co-generation 6 kW water heating"

Works out 11% over all for "juice".

Also -- the efficiency depends of a high flame temperature -- or above 1000 C.

Producer gas will not get the same 11% which is based on diesel fuel.

Have appended the info below.

Still say that single cylinder Chinese diesel converted to a unaflow steam
engine is the best way to go. Simple, bullet proof -- works on "dirty"
producer gas.

Peter

*****************************************

http://www.whispergen.com/pps16ac.htm

The AC WhisperGen system is designed to provide both heat and power
for an urban home, replacing the conventional central heating boiler
and supplementing the grid supplied electricity. It is not designed
to replace the electricity grid, but rather to be used in conjunction
with it. Future systems will incorporate the ability for off grid
running in emergency situations.


Output: 750W, 230 Volt AC grid connected, continuous duty,
Co-generation 6 kW water heating
Fuel: Natural Gas, Diesel, Kerosene, LPG, etc.
Fuel consumption: Similar daily fuel consumption as condensing
boilers.
Control: Self managing, remote display, electric start.
Cooling: Water cooled.
Safety: Full electronic safety features
Dimensions: 450 mm x 500 mm x 800 mm (wxdxh)
Enclosure: Moulded FRP, insulated
Weight: 95 kgs dry
Noise levels: Less than 50 dBA at 7m
Servicing interval: 2,000 hours
Overhaul: 20,000 plus hours (predicted)
Availability: Trial systems available now.

Specifications subject to change without notice


The WhisperGen AC system is designed to address a number of issues:

1. The WhisperGen Personal Power Station allows the energy in fossil
fuels such as natural gas to be utilized much more efficiently than
if it is used in centralized power production. This is because it
produces electricity where it is required, thus avoiding transmission
losses. In addition the waste heat from the engine is utilized on
site to heat the house and its hot water supply.

2. Because of the more efficient use of fossil fuels the Personal
Power Station means much lower emission levels of greenhouse gases
than is currently possible with centralized electricity generation. A
WhisperGen will give the user greater than 90% efficiency in respect
of useful heat and electricity from the fuel used. In the case of
central generation the useful electricity, after transmission losses
is generally less than half this level.

3. The use of a Personal Power Station avoids the need for the
construction of large, central, capital intensive, environmentally
disruptive power stations.

4. Personal Power Stations can be switched on to avoid peak load
costs for electricity utilities, they are also a mechanism which
allow utilities to integrate the retailing of gas and electricity.

5. The Personal Power Station allows the supply of electricity to
urban areas where reticulation and /or the generation system is
overloaded and they offer the option of stand-by electricity to
individual homes in the event of grid failure.

The WhisperGen AC system is quiet and unobtrusive which means it can
be installed inside the home as a replacement for the central heating
boiler.

Whisper Tech welcomes contact from parties interested in being
involved in this new technology. For more information contact
info1@whispertech.co.nz[4]



--------------------------------------------------------------------

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From VHarris001 at aol.com Thu Sep 28 22:43:41 2000
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: turbo chargers
Message-ID: <bb.7666096.27055b21@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/28/2000 11:57:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
melanie@www.cytechcis.net writes:

> Dear gasifiers,
>
> Has anyone done projects involving automobile turbochargers hooked up to an
> alternator as a method of harnessing small scale steam power to electricity
> conversion??
>
> The junkyard sells the turbos of off wrecked cars fairly cheaply, and the
> turbos are already designed to function in a hot and corrosive environment.
> Furthermore, their original intent is to convert pressurized hot exhaust
> into mechanical energy. Sounds very similar to the conversion we are
> trying to achieve.
>
> I would be interested your thoughts and opinions.
>
> Thank You
> Tom Steigelmann

Hi Tom,

I'd be interested in using a turbocharger as a blower for a gasifier. Are
you familiar with how much pressure they typically produce? Are they able to
draw a vacuum on the intake side of the turbocharger? Has any one else on
the list used turbochargers is gasification applications?

Thanks,
Vernon Harris

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From english at adan.kingston.net Thu Sep 28 23:36:22 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
Message-ID: <200009290336.XAA02017@crest.solarhost.com>

Reply-to: english@adan.kingston.net
CC: stoves@crest.org
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <c9.8ddf09d.27041be8@aol.com>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)

Hi Peter and all,
Have a look at my low tech, hi performance, batch load, top down,
50 kW thermal gasifier based on Tom Reeds IDD charcoal making stove.
It doesn't get any easier.

http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/bigtop/bigtop.htm

With a few burner modifications it would couple to the STM
(Stirling Thermal Motors) engine quite nicely.

Do you grow dry wood pellets down in Belize? ;)

Alex

> > http://www.stmcorporation.com/multiheat.htm
> >
> >
> > As it is external combustion -- should be suited to gasifiers with to much
> > tar.
> >
> > 40% over all efficiencies -- 60 HP per liter capacity -- I kid you not!
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter Singfield
> > Belize
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for the link. The ingenuity of man never ceases to amaze me. I hope
> this technology is further developed, refined and - implemented - *before*
> cheap oil finally goes away.
>
> Best always,
> Vernon
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
> Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
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> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>
>

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From PletkaRJ at bv.com Fri Sep 29 01:37:54 2000
From: PletkaRJ at bv.com (Pletka, Ryan J.)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: turbo chargers
Message-ID: <61BCB4275920D211AA5700A0C9DB18FB0A448FE4@BVMAIL02>

This is somewhat related. These guys have a lot of fun with converting
turbochargers to turbines. They also appear to have some sort of small
gasifier system:
www.gas-turbines.com

Regards,
Ryan Pletka

Black & Veatch Energy Services Group

-----Original Message-----
From: VHarris001@aol.com
To: gasification@crest.org
Sent: 9/28/00 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: GAS-L: turbo chargers

In a message dated 09/28/2000 11:57:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
melanie@www.cytechcis.net writes:

> Dear gasifiers,
>
> Has anyone done projects involving automobile turbochargers hooked up
to an
> alternator as a method of harnessing small scale steam power to
electricity
> conversion??
>
> The junkyard sells the turbos of off wrecked cars fairly cheaply, and
the
> turbos are already designed to function in a hot and corrosive
environment.
> Furthermore, their original intent is to convert pressurized hot
exhaust
> into mechanical energy. Sounds very similar to the conversion we are
> trying to achieve.
>
> I would be interested your thoughts and opinions.
>
> Thank You
> Tom Steigelmann

Hi Tom,

I'd be interested in using a turbocharger as a blower for a gasifier.
Are
you familiar with how much pressure they typically produce? Are they
able to
draw a vacuum on the intake side of the turbocharger? Has any one else
on
the list used turbochargers is gasification applications?

Thanks,
Vernon Harris
The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
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From douglasmcc at cnl.com.au Fri Sep 29 07:18:19 2000
From: douglasmcc at cnl.com.au (Douglas Costello)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: New motor
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000928095927.009428d0@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <002201c02a0f$1bb38600$711f38cb@douglasmcc>

I did have some success some months ago but having filed the site in my
system I can't for the life of me find it.

But try contacting this site and asking them about Whisper Tech.
http://www.elec.canterbury.ac.nz , it a Uni Dept and someone maybe able to
update what has happened to the site.

Douglas C

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Singfield" <snkm@btl.net>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Friday, 29 September 2000 1:00
Subject: Re: GAS-L: New motor

>
> >See www.whispertech.co.nz
>
> Doesn't work!! Could you give us the right Url??
>
> Sounds very interesting --
>
> Peter/Belize
>
> At 11:34 AM 9/28/00 +1200, you wrote:
> >on 28/9/00 10:24 AM, LINVENT@aol.com at LINVENT@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> There is also an Australian outfit which has a
> >> few moving part engine which appears to be a nice option. Anyone know
> about
> >> them?
> >
> >Yes, Tom. I think you refer to Whisper Tech Ltd., Christchurch, New
> >Zealand.
> >
> >See www.whispertech.co.nz
> >
> >The Gasification List is sponsored by
> >USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> >and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
> >
> >Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> >http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
> >http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> >http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> >
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
> Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
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>

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From douglasmcc at cnl.com.au Fri Sep 29 07:26:06 2000
From: douglasmcc at cnl.com.au (Douglas Costello)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Micro Systems?????
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000928123837.00947940@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <003f01c02a10$315262a0$711f38cb@douglasmcc>

Mushroom compost needs to be manure plus cellulose, typically it has been
straw. Haven't come across any plants using saw dust as a component.

Douglas C

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Singfield" <snkm@btl.net>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Friday, 29 September 2000 4:10
Subject: Re: GAS-L: Micro Systems?????

> At 02:17 PM 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >My apologies to the list - that was obviously meant to go just to Peter
but
> >now that it is out there - any ideas?
> >
> >Eric (watch that reply all button) Deaver
>
> Hi Eric;
>
> Regarding the horse manure. Using this as fuel to produce electrical power
> to sell for .03 cents per kwh is a terrible waste.
>
> You would do a lot better composting this to fertilizer.
>
> If I remember right -- growing mushrooms requires a compost fertilizer
> specifically made up of wood and horse manure.
>
> There is a lot of action regarding composting technology these days. Run a
> search and you'll be very surprised.
>
> Peter Singfield
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
> Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
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>

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From douglasmcc at cnl.com.au Fri Sep 29 07:34:36 2000
From: douglasmcc at cnl.com.au (Douglas Costello)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: turbo chargers
In-Reply-To: <bb.7666096.27055b21@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006001c02a11$63644460$711f38cb@douglasmcc>

How about using a steam jet to create your vacuum. You don't need a high
pressure, minimum 50psi, and you can recapture most of the steam energy for
reuse rather than allowing it to go to waste after use.

I'm suggesting you consider using a micro steam jet refrigeration process.
I know it sounds ridiculous but worth the consideration.

Douglas C

----- Original Message -----
From: <VHarris001@aol.com>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Friday, 29 September 2000 12:40
Subject: Re: GAS-L: turbo chargers

> In a message dated 09/28/2000 11:57:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> melanie@www.cytechcis.net writes:
>
> > Dear gasifiers,
> >
> > Has anyone done projects involving automobile turbochargers hooked up
to an
> > alternator as a method of harnessing small scale steam power to
electricity
> > conversion??
> >
> > The junkyard sells the turbos of off wrecked cars fairly cheaply, and
the
> > turbos are already designed to function in a hot and corrosive
environment.
> > Furthermore, their original intent is to convert pressurized hot
exhaust
> > into mechanical energy. Sounds very similar to the conversion we are
> > trying to achieve.
> >
> > I would be interested your thoughts and opinions.
> >
> > Thank You
> > Tom Steigelmann
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> I'd be interested in using a turbocharger as a blower for a gasifier. Are
> you familiar with how much pressure they typically produce? Are they able
to
> draw a vacuum on the intake side of the turbocharger? Has any one else on
> the list used turbochargers is gasification applications?
>
> Thanks,
> Vernon Harris
>
> The Gasification List is sponsored by
> USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
> and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
> Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
> http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
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From edeaver101 at rcn.com Fri Sep 29 09:57:25 2000
From: edeaver101 at rcn.com (Eric Deaver)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Micro Systems?????
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000928123837.00947940@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <003201c02a1c$9b98b0e0$81dfa4d8@default>

Yes, here in Loudoun, the mushroom growers from PA will drive here to pick
up manure for free as long as straw bedding is used. They apparently can
not use sawdust or wood chip bedded manure.

fwiw,

Eric

ps: Thanks for all the help so far. Ideas are popping like pimples :o)

The Gasification List is sponsored by
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From LINVENT at aol.com Fri Sep 29 11:31:37 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: turbo chargers
Message-ID: <7c.b91448e.27060f2f@aol.com>

V. Harris,
Turbo boost can go up to 15psi. Some systems will go to 30 psi. Most
run at 3 psi at high throttle, going up to 15 at max throttle where the pop
off valve releases.

Tom
The Gasification List is sponsored by
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From LINVENT at aol.com Fri Sep 29 11:36:33 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: turbo chargers
Message-ID: <73.7365e12.2706105e@aol.com>

 

In a message dated 9/28/00 10:49:46 PM, PletkaRJ@bv.com writes:

<< gas-turbines.com

>>

Doesn't load.

Tom Taylor
The Gasification List is sponsored by
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From snkm at btl.net Fri Sep 29 11:40:43 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NT/6 TurboGenerator Project
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000929093227.008b83a0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Hi Folks,

Still checking out all those Urls. Am also looking over the "Big-Top" --
more on that later.

Regarding turbos --

This Url: www.gas-turbines.com

as supplied by Ryan Pletka, is pretty well a one stop shopping when it
comes to home made gas turbines using automotive turbos.

I am sure people on this list will have an interest in the following
"project" which is also found there.

This is the GETWEB dump of that site. Just the text. The pictures are
something else.

It is hard to understand what is happening here from the little data
presented.

Peter Singfield
Belize

******************************************

From:

http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt6/nt6.htm

Nye Thermodynamics

[IMAGE]

Views of NT/6

These photos were taken during the first ever trial run of the NT/6
gas producer section on Feb 1, 1999.

250-c18 01.JPG (24839 bytes)

Fully loaded with 60lbs of split hardwood, 12PSI compressor discharge
pressure. Approx. 120,000RPM gas producer turbine speed. 50PSI oil
pressure. 1400deg F EGT. This thing screams!

250-c18 02.JPG (33104 bytes)

This is a good shot of the electric oil pump. The exhaust plume is
visible on the left side of the turbo.

250-c18 03.JPG (17718 bytes)
Here is a view of the fire in the combustor through the Pyrex sight
glass. The pipe fitting on the side is for air to keep the glass
clean.

Update Aug 21, 1999

NT6 01 Aug21-99.jpg (38621 bytes)

This is NT/6 after the first test of the throttle system Aug 21,
1999. Throttling worked, but not exactly as expected. The needed
changes were identified and will be made this week. Run time was :30
min @ 10-15 psi with no gas leakage as before. The sound is
deafening, an air intake silencer is needed. The test was aborted at
:30 min due to a blown compressor discharge air hose. The full load
of wood appears to be only blackened.

NT/6 Highlights (proposed)
- self starting with battery powered leaf blower.
- runs on wood (or anything else you can stuff into the combustor
that burns and gives off good heat).
- totally self sufficient - can be run in remote locations without
gas or diesel fuel.
- will probably produce around 2,000W continuous.
- DC output: 24V @ 80A (or 2 X - 12V @ 80A) or;
- AC output: 120V @ 60Hz 2 X 1,000W (with inverters)
-excellent source of warmth.
-wood consumption TBA.
-easy to maintain, the turbo has only one main moving part.

More to follow. I have not begun working on the free turbine and
generator system yet. (Too busy with other projects!)

Want to know more?
Section 2 of the NT Infopack CD[1] is dedicated to this project and
contains lots of detail drawings and high-res. photos.

For more information contact: sales@nye.on.ca[2]
Dealer inquiries welcome!

Home[3]

Created Feb 1, 1999 - Last revised June 6, 2000
We've had Hit Counter hits on this page since Sep 13, 1999


*** References from this document ***

[orig] http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt6/nt6.htm
[1] http://www.gas-turbines.com/hobby/plans/plans.htm
[2] mailto:sales@nye.on.ca
[3] http://www.gas-turbines.com/index.htm

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
http://www.nrbp.org/bio2000.htm
http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

 

From snkm at btl.net Fri Sep 29 12:18:13 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: turbo chargers - that WWW site
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000929094022.008a8bd0@wgs1.btl.net>

At 11:33 AM 9/29/00 EDT, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 9/28/00 10:49:46 PM, PletkaRJ@bv.com writes:
>
><< gas-turbines.com
>
> >>
>
>Doesn't load.
>
>Tom Taylor

Tom --

Here is the GETWEB dump of the home page. All numbers in Brackets []'
within the text refer to matching Urls appended at end.

I have also downloaded and saved this in HTM format with graphics.

Very interesting stuff at this site -- will take a while to absorb everything.

Peter/Belize

*******************************************

URL:

http://www.gas-turbines.com/

Gas-Turbines Home

[IMAGE]Nye Thermodynamics

Turbocharger and Aero-derivative Turbine Projects for Industry,
Education and Recreation.
This site is mirrored at www.nyethermodynamics.com[1]

[IMAGE]

June 7, 2000 Nye Thermodynamics makes the New York Times! check it
out here[2].

[IMAGE]

AB Blue Flame.jpg (21714 bytes)[3]

After-Burning Home Built Gas Turbine[4]

[IMAGE] NT/5 Video clip[5]

[IMAGE]

Allison T63.gif (27675 bytes)[6]. Squirt (front).JPG (30117 bytes)
[7]

Turbine Jet-Boat Project[8] (Squirt 1)

[IMAGE] Squirt 1 Video clip[9]

[IMAGE]

[IMAGE] [10] [IMAGE][11]

Turbine Jet-Boat Project[12] (Squirt 2)

[IMAGE] Tons more photos Sept 2000

(First Class Maneuver!)

[IMAGE]

T58 on hoist over base.JPG (21823 bytes)[13]

T58-GE-8F Turbojet Conversion[14]

[IMAGE] SnowJet Video clip[15]

[IMAGE]

T58 on hoist over base.JPG (21823 bytes)[16]

The Hornet Project[17]

[IMAGE] Hornet Video clips[18]

[IMAGE]

me&nt6.jpg (12103 bytes)[19]
NT/6 Turbo Generator[20]

Introducing the worlds first wood burning back-up generator /
wood-stove.

[IMAGE]

Turbine Rebuilders:[21] Gas-Turbine Primer:[22]
Aircraft Engines[23] Turbine Manufacturers:[24]
Gas-Turbine Specs.:[25] Turbocharger Turbines[26]
Gas-Turbine Prices[27] Turbine Parts, Tools and Test Equipment:[28]
Turbine Jet boat Project[29] Research and Experimental Turbines[30]
"Hornet" Project[31] T58 Turbojet conversion[32]
NT/7 (hydraulic turbine)[33] NT/8 (NG - self compressing)[34]
Squirt 2[35] Whois NYE?[36]

 

Looking for turbine engines or parts? Visit:
============================================

[IMAGE][37]

 

[IMAGE]
=======

For more information, or comments please contact:
mark@nye.on.ca[38]

This page last updated Sept 24, 2000
Since January 14th 1996... You are visitor [IMAGE]

*** References from this document ***

[orig] http://www.gas-turbines.com/index.htm
[1] http://www.nyethermodynamics.com/
[2] http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/00/06/biztech/technology\
/07poll3.html
[3] http://www.gas-turbines.com/hobby/nye.htm
[4] http://www.gas-turbines.com/hobby/nye.htm
[5] http://www.gas-turbines.com/hobby/nt5.mpg
[6] http://www.gas-turbines.com/allison.htm
[7] http://www.gas-turbines.com/allison.htm
[8] http://www.gas-turbines.com/allison.htm
[9] http://www.gas-turbines.com/images/allison/Squirt-1_short.mpg
[10] http://www.gas-turbines.com/squirt_2.htm
[11] http://www.gas-turbines.com/squirt_2.htm
[12] http://www.gas-turbines.com/squirt_2.htm
[13] http://www.gas-turbines.com/t58/t58.htm
[14] http://www.gas-turbines.com/t58/t58.htm
[15] http://www.gas-turbines.com/t58/snowjet.mpg
[16] http://www.gas-turbines.com/hornet.htm
[17] http://www.gas-turbines.com/hornet.htm
[18] http://www.gas-turbines.com/images/hornet/hornet.mpg
[19] http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt6/nt6.htm
[20] http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt6/nt6.htm
[21] http://www.gas-turbines.com/rebuil/index.htm
[22] http://www.gas-turbines.com/begin/index.htm
[23] http://www.gas-turbines.com/aircraft/Default.htm
[24] http://www.gas-turbines.com/manufa/index.htm
[25] http://www.gas-turbines.com/specs/Default.htm
[26] http://www.gas-turbines.com/hobby/nt5.htm
[27] http://www.gas-turbines.com/TRADER/prices.htm
[28] http://www.gas-turbines.com/services/Default.htm
[29] http://www.gas-turbines.com/allison.htm
[30] http://www.gas-turbines.com/randd/Default.htm
[31] http://www.gas-turbines.com/hornet.htm
[32] http://www.gas-turbines.com/t58/t58.htm
[33] http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt7.htm
[34] http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt8.htm
[35] http://www.gas-turbines.com/squirt_2.htm
[36] http://www.gas-turbines.com/whois.htm
[37] http://www.avonaero.com/
[38] mailto:mark@nye.on.ca

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
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From snkm at btl.net Fri Sep 29 12:18:15 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: The Big Top Gasifier
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000929101013.008a8ba0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Hi Alex;

At 12:54 PM 9/28/00 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Peter and all,
>Have a look at my low tech, hi performance, batch load, top down,
>50 kW thermal gasifier based on Tom Reeds IDD charcoal making stove.
>It doesn't get any easier.
>
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/bigtop/bigtop.htm

Have appended the GETWEB dump of that site.

Basically we are talking a batch mode charcoal maker. Seems to me one could
easily make a flash tube boiler to recover the heat from the flare burning
pyrolysis gases situated at the top.

But why stop there! Surely the charcoal can be gasified in a second "pass"
and the same flare used for further steam production.

What I like is the simplicity of the components -- namely an old hot water
tank.

Batch mode is not a problem for this as a steam application.

"The tar rich gas is continuously burned with a stable orange flame.
7.5 hours later the flame turns to blue as the pyrolysis
front reaches the bottom and the volatile component of the fuel is
used up. At this point the cylinder can be sealed and the
20 kg of charcoal, containing about 560 MJoules of energy, are allow
to cool. The heat output for those seven hours was about 50kWatts.
Fan energy consumption is about 120 watts. A few modifications would
eliminate the need for any fans."

So -- 50 kw over 7.5 hrs = 6.6 kw per hour.

Lets say -- conservatively -- that we can recover 10% of this as electrical
power.

That would be 660 watts produced for 7.5 hours.

However - -if you gasified the charcoal in this same apparatus -- you
probably would get double that again -- or more. Can't remember what the
energy ration is and am to busy to look it up right now -- that is energy
in volatiles over energy in charcoal.

But say one batch of 220 lbs of wood could give 660 watts power for 24
hours. Not bad. And if you build a proper boiler and unaflow -- you can
easily double this to 1320 watts per hour.

This is a respectable power supply in my neighborhood.

>
>With a few burner modifications it would couple to the STM
>(Stirling Thermal Motors) engine quite nicely.

As you have witnessed from the discussions on this list -- to expensive. As
your gases are to dirty to run and IC engine -- the simplest is make up a
flash tube boiler (simply coiled tubing -- probably 1/4 in truck brake line
will do for that amount of heat) and tinker up a pop-valve Unaflow steam
engine.

>
>Do you grow dry wood pellets down in Belize? ;)

No -- we would split and chop into properly sized pieces.

I suggest you try gasifying one batch of the resulting charcoal.

>
>Alex
>

OK folks -- read through the GETWEB dump attached.

Peter Singfield
Belize

***********************************************

http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/bigtop/bigtop.htm

50 kilowatt wood pellet gasifier / charcoal maker (Sept 27, 2000)

Alex English english@kingston.net

[IMAGE]

What we have here is a demonstration of gasification in one of
its simplest, yet most effect, forms. This is an old water heater
fitted with an air distribution manifold base and a partial premix
burner on top.

The cylinder holds 100kg of wood pellets containing 1860 MJoules of
energy. The column of pellets is lit on top.

Air flow up through the pellets feeds the pyrolysis process, which
creeps down at a rate of aproximately 20cm per hour.

The tar rich gas is continuously burned with a stable orange flame.
7.5 hours later the flame turns to blue as the pyrolysis
front reaches the bottom and the volatile component of the fuel is
used up. At this point the cylinder can be sealed and the
20 kg of charcoal, containing about 560 MJoules of energy, are allow
to cool. The heat output for those seven hours was about 50kWatts.
Fan energy consumption is about 120 watts. A few modifications would
eliminate the need for any fans.

Green wood chips, bark waste and hay have also been tried with less
consistant results so far.

[IMAGE]

Charcoal by product from dry wood pellets and dry hay.

[IMAGE]

*** References from this document ***

[orig] http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/bigtop/bigtop.htm

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From snkm at btl.net Fri Sep 29 16:47:12 2000
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: The Big Top Gasifier and a "Harley Steamer"
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000929143746.008d4a30@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Hi Alex;

Alex states:
"The cylinder holds 100kg of wood pellets containing 1860 MJoules of
energy. The column of pellets is lit on top."

My Checking:
100 kg = 220 pounds. 20% humidity = 7000 btu/lb

220 * 7000 = 1,540,000 btu = 1623 MJ

OK -- close enough.

Tom has said this:
"Making wood into charcoal typically gives yields of 30% in industrial
processes and 15-20% in backward countries where it is still one of the few
simple fuel options. So, 70-80% of the wood's energy is wasted in simple
charcoal manufacture."

Alex claims:
"At this point the cylinder can be sealed and the
20 kg of charcoal, containing about 560 MJoules of energy, are allow
to cool."

My checking:
Ok -- 20/100 = 20%

Your are running top of the line for a "back-word" country!! And
considering how simple your device is -- not bad!

Alex continues:
"The heat output for those seven hours was about 50kWatts."

My Checking:

That is 180 MJ (50 KW = 180 MJ)

Alex claims:
"20 kg of charcoal, containing about 560 MJoules of energy"

My Checking:
One pound charcoal = 11,000 to 14,000 btu -- say 12500
44 lbs of charcoal = 550,000 btu or 580 MJ

Again -- close enough.

So we can account for: 560 MJ as charcoal
160 MJ as gas heat
---
Total 720 MJ

So: 1860 MJ in and 720 accounted for.

39% yield in accountable energy.

Question -- where is the rest??

Maybe we had better insulate that water tank??

I see you device putting out more than enough steam for 3 kwh production if
we seal the leaks. But not for 24 hours -- rather 12 hours per batch
(gasifying the charcoal) And that is OK to.

Your device certainly meets the criteria for simplicity. And charcoal is a
viable commodity in 3rd world. so even if you leave the device as is -- and
do not gasify the charcoal -- but recover a good part of that lost heat.
Then your device would be a charcoal plant that produces a good amount of
power during the process.

One such item in a small village would suffice for their charcoal needs and
keep enough lights, radios and fans going for most of this village. Thus
run it in the evening.

A high pressure/superheat boiler of that capacity can easily be made from
steel brake line tubing -- probably fitting inside your present "torch" --
or maybe a little longer torch. Just need a simple steam engine for the
power plant.

And that is where we are all presently stuck!

However -- not to dispair. The greatest cost for such an engine is the
"base". That is the crank shaft and bearings. The simplest I know to make
is following the design of the old Harley Davidson twins. A bolted together
unit with roller bearings.

"Splash" lubrication being enough.

Two round plates -- big end rod pin at the required distance from center --
two nuts bolting pin and plates together. Center crank shaft pins bolted
with recessed nuts -- both facing outside. Some wieghts added in
appropriate postions for balancing -- on the outside of the plates. There
-- a crankshaft.

The crank housing can be six steel plates bolted together. The two side
plates bored for excepting the bearings. The top plate bored to fit the
cylinder and mounting studs.

The lower part of the crank case is filled with lubrication oil. The big
end "splashes" this oil all about every stroke -- lubricating the roller
bearings.

Of course -- you have seals on the outer sides of the crank bearings.

Then adapt that ever handy GMC diesel cylinder and piston.

Made up with a pop-valve cylinder head.

Four (or more) long studs running to the cylinder base plate to hold it all
together.

You can get detailed plans for that part over at:

The White Cliffs Solar Steam Engine

http://www.multimania.com/rossen/solar/wcengine.html

So Alex -- are you going for it or what??

Lets build Steam Harleys!

(Of for a small machine shop!!)

Peter Singfield
Belize

***********************************

Air flow up through the pellets feeds the pyrolysis process, which
creeps down at a rate of approximately 20cm per hour.

The tar rich gas is continuously burned with a stable orange flame.
7.5 hours later the flame turns to blue as the pyrolysis
front reaches the bottom and the volatile component of the fuel is
used up. At this point the cylinder can be sealed and the
20 kg of charcoal, containing about 560 MJoules of energy, are allow
to cool.

The heat output for those seven hours was about 50kWatts.
Fan energy consumption is about 120 watts. A few modifications would
eliminate the need for any fans.

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From english at adan.kingston.net Sat Sep 30 11:22:28 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NT/6 TurboGenerator Project
Message-ID: <200009301521.LAA07734@adan.kingston.net>

 

Peter,
> http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt6/nt6.htm

The small scale topdown batch pyrolyser method is ideal for simple
high pressure (~100psi) burner applications. Are there any?

Alex

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From english at adan.kingston.net Sat Sep 30 11:22:32 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: The Big Top Gasifier and a "Harley Steamer"
Message-ID: <200009301521.LAA07729@adan.kingston.net>

Peter,

> 100 kg = 220 pounds. 20% humidity = 7000 btu/lb

These wood pellets are 8% water.

> Alex continues:
> "The heat output for those seven hours was about 50kWatts."
>
> My Checking:
>
> That is 180 MJ (50 KW = 180 MJ)
No. 50kW is a rate based unit.
1kWh=3.6MJ
50kw * 7 hours = 350 kWh = 1260MJ
10% electricity yield of 5kWe continuous for 7 hours or
35kWh-e total per batch.


> So: 1860 MJ in and 720 accounted for.
> 39% yield in accountable energy.
> Question -- where is the rest??

See above.

> So Alex -- are you going for it or what??

Yes, slowly but surely.

Yesterday I ran another test. Including a six foot chimney, I was
able to operate the unit without fans, albeit at a slightly reduced
power. It was also run at much higher power using a high pressure
fan. Sounds like a jet engine.

> Lets build Steam Harleys!

Sure. I like the idea of a mono tube boiler linked to a steam engine/
generator. I have my doubts that the whole package will have the
technological elegance and of a bicycle or a windmill. I like to
think that this type of burner brings us one step closer.

Alex

 

 

Alex English
RR 2 Odessa, Ontario, Canada
K0H2H0 613-386-1927
Fax 613-386-1211

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From english at adan.kingston.net Sat Sep 30 11:47:43 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.english)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: doubles
Message-ID: <200009301546.LAA10580@adan.kingston.net>

My apologies for the double postings.
If you get one of these then the problem is solved.
Alex
Alex English
RR 2 Odessa, Ontario, Canada
K0H2H0 613-386-1927
Fax 613-386-1211
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From keith at journeytoforever.org Sat Sep 30 12:41:38 2000
From: keith at journeytoforever.org (Keith Addison)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: burning arsenic
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000929143746.008d4a30@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <v04210105b5fbbee37211@[210.88.158.107]>

Pardon me, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if this is a dumb
question or not: what happens to the arsenic (and other chemicals?)
in treated wood and sawdust when you burn it? Does it make for toxic
fumes or does it just break down harmlessly?

TIA

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

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From sturn at hawaii.edu Sat Sep 30 13:08:18 2000
From: sturn at hawaii.edu (scott q. turn)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: burning arsenic
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000929143746.008d4a30@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <a04330104b5fbcf5c1f90@[128.171.151.106]>

 

arsenic is an element, so it can't break down to a more basic unit
without destroying its atomic structure. when combusted in treated
wood, the arsenic may go up the chimney, as vapor in the smoke, or
may be retained in the residual solid, non-combustible material
commonly known as ash. its fate may depend on the combustion
conditions, mainly the temperatures attained.

hope this helps,
scott

>Pardon me, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if this is a dumb
>question or not: what happens to the arsenic (and other chemicals?)
>in treated wood and sawdust when you burn it? Does it make for toxic
>fumes or does it just break down harmlessly?
>
>TIA
>
>Keith Addison
>Journey to Forever
>Handmade Projects
>Tokyo
>http://journeytoforever.org/
>
>The Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>
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From VHarris001 at aol.com Sat Sep 30 13:26:36 2000
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Micro Systems?????
Message-ID: <b5.12fe247.27077baa@aol.com>

> In a message dated 09/28/2000 2:08:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> edeaver101@rcn.com writes:
>
> > I have an opportunity to hopefully fund a
> > business similar to the one you suggest. Here is the deal - we have
> almost
> > 20,000 horses in Loudoun County (mostly the western half). They are
> > proximal to each other. Each horse generates 40lb of manure each day.
> Many
> > of the farms use pine chips and/or sawdust as bedding material. I can
> get
> > and average of about $0.03 / kWh for any electricity I can generate.
> >
> > I have done some basic calculations on digesters coupled with a
> > microturbine. The numbers I have come up with do not even come close.
> >
> > I am now interested in either methanol production or gasification.
> >
> > Any suggestions? Money is available - although not in unlimited
amounts.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Eric Deaver

You are in Virginia, but I thought you might be interested in this. Edward
Kropp, deputy director, says West Virginia's Division of Environmental
Protection has just approved an incinerator for a lumber yard, Gatewood
Products in Parkersburg W VA. The incinerator is described as "the size of
two dumpsters." This suggests it might be a gasification first stage and
excess air combustion second stage, although it is not specifically
mentioned. They will use the incinerator to burn damaged pallets - thus
avoid disposal costs. No mention is made of utilizing the heat for any
productive purpose.

Also, a trash-to-steam plant operated by Robbins Resource Recovery Partners
LLP in Robbins, ILL has just been approved for shutdown. It is a 3 year old
facility that has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy after Illinois repealed its
electric retail rate law which gave a tax credit to utilities that bought
power from waste-to-energy facilities. Even when these facilities are paid
tip fees for the fuel used, they still have difficulty without government
subsidies or intervention (e.g. flow control - which is gradually going
by-the-by - and has created enormous financial distress - notably in New
Jersey).

Waste-to-energy is a tough nut to crack. Thankfully we have this forum in
which to commiserate over cheap fuel and cry in our collective beer about
lost opportunities in alternative fuels.

Best,

Vernon Harris

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From VHarris001 at aol.com Sat Sep 30 14:51:56 2000
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: turbo chargers
Message-ID: <c4.9d20a3a.27078f9e@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/29/2000 1:49:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
PletkaRJ@bv.com writes:

> This is somewhat related. These guys have a lot of fun with converting
> turbochargers to turbines. They also appear to have some sort of small
> gasifier system:
> www.gas-turbines.com
>
> Regards,
> Ryan Pletka
>
> Black & Veatch Energy Services Group

Very entertaining site - they do seem to be having a lot of fun. Thanks for
the link!

Vernon Harris
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From VHarris001 at aol.com Sat Sep 30 15:01:42 2000
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: ejectors (was turbo chargers)
Message-ID: <e1.a58083b.270791f3@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/29/2000 7:33:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
douglasmcc@cnl.com.au writes:

> How about using a steam jet to create your vacuum. You don't need a high
> pressure, minimum 50psi, and you can recapture most of the steam energy for
> reuse rather than allowing it to go to waste after use.
>
> I'm suggesting you consider using a micro steam jet refrigeration process.
> I know it sounds ridiculous but worth the consideration.
>
> Douglas C

By a steam jet, do you mean a steam eductor (or ejector), something like a
Fox Venturi ejector, like the kind they use to freeze dry food?

I was looking at them for a while, but somewhere along the line, I got
information that they consume a lot of steam - and the steam will then also
be mixed with the producer gas.

Then I was thinking of using one with air as the motive gas, since I have to
mix air with the producer gas anyway. Tom Reed has mentioned ejectors
several times and I think an ejector is a good idea, but I haven't found much
technical information about them.

I sure would be interested in pursuing that avenue further.

Regards,
Vernon Harris
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From LINVENT at aol.com Sat Sep 30 15:04:31 2000
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: burning arsenic
Message-ID: <22.be3dd17.27079295@aol.com>

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

Arsenic contained in organic compounds will stay in the reaction bed at
normal temperatures in gasification processes. It has a high boiling point
and does not carry out of the system as mercury would at the same
temperatures.
Arsenic's partial pressure is quite low at the normal temperatures in
gasification reactions.

Sincerely,

Leland T. Taylor
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From VHarris001 at aol.com Sat Sep 30 15:11:44 2000
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: turbo chargers
Message-ID: <7c.b99fcbf.27079446@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/29/2000 11:30:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LINVENT@aol.com writes:

> V. Harris,
> Turbo boost can go up to 15psi. Some systems will go to 30 psi. Most
> run at 3 psi at high throttle, going up to 15 at max throttle where the
pop
> off valve releases.
>
> Tom

Hi Tom,

3 psi isn't an awful lot of boost, is it? What type blowers do you use on
your systems, and would you ever consider using turbocharger for one of your
gasifiers?

Also, aren't you somewhat involved in agriculture, and if so, what can you
tell us about forage blowers? I see one advertised as blowing 180 tons of
silage per hour at 540 rpm on a 60 inch diameter cage. But no mention is
made of pressure drop or scfm ratings (which are probably not important to
farmers, but of great interest to me). Could a small, modified forage blower
serve as a gasifier blower?

Thanks,
Vernon Harris

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From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Sat Sep 30 15:33:39 2000
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: burning arsenic
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000929143746.008d4a30@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <kcects4ujqdds6pch8ivgg4qptsnhp4d35@4ax.com>

On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 01:42:08 +0900, you wrote:

>Pardon me, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if this is a dumb
>question or not: what happens to the arsenic (and other chemicals?)
>in treated wood and sawdust when you burn it? Does it make for toxic
>fumes or does it just break down harmlessly?

I am still reading up on this so cannot claim to be at all "expert": I
guess you are referring to wood that has been treated with a water
borne salt, chromated copper arsenate. I am certain chemicals from
this are volatilised during burning, also what remains is concentrated
in the ash. Arsenic and copper accumulate in the body but have known
half lives and are excreted in time, nasty but probably not life
threatening in a single dose. The chromium is far more insidious, in
the active salt it is the hexavalent form, most of this combines with
the wood and is held in the trivalent form, however some un reacted
chromium is free in the wood in the hexavalent form. I am told
combustion products and ash will be predominantly the hexavalent form,
as yet I have not verified this.
AJH
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From luizmagri at yahoo.com Sat Sep 30 23:43:40 2000
From: luizmagri at yahoo.com (Luiz Alberto Magri)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:08:43 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Whispertec
Message-ID: <20001001034126.19653.qmail@web1104.mail.yahoo.com>

List,

Within Whispertec data we can find the following:

> 2. Because of the more efficient use of fossil fuels
> the Personal
> Power Station means much lower emission levels of
> greenhouse gases
> than is currently possible with centralized
> electricity generation. A
> WhisperGen will give the user greater than 90%
> efficiency in respect
> of useful heat and electricity from the fuel used.
> In the case of
> central generation the useful electricity, after
> transmission losses
> is generally less than half this level.

I have two concerns referring to the above:

1) How to match electricy and heating needs using a
single personal system? It's likely it will run out of
design the most of the time.

2) That 90% to 50% difference sounds too great. Assume
the thermal cycle efficiency within the proposed
system is 25%, and heating or heat recovering
efficiecy is 80%, and we will need, in order to
generate 750 We + 6,000 Wth:

- in a conventional grid+boiler system, 9,000 W fuel;
- in the proposed system, 8,250 W fuel.

Even after correcting for real conditions, the figures
appear quite close.

 

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