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June 2001 Gasification Archive

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From VHarris001 at aol.com Sat Jun 2 10:16:33 2001
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:24 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Supercharging the Boiler / Recuperator?
Message-ID: <8a.7837913.284a4efb@aol.com>

To blow the off-gas from a gasifier to a burner, I've been considering using
an air-jet gas ejector. The ejector draws the gas from the gasifier, mixes
it with air and ejects it at a pressure greater than the suction pressure but
less than the air-jet pressure.

To burn the air-gas mixture, a cone burner with a flameholder may be used.
It will both burn the mixture and eject the hot exhaust into a boiler (or
recuperator depending on the configuration I settle on). A typical cone
burner ejects gas at somewhat above atmospheric pressure.

Looking at the cone burner configuration led me to wonder if it is possible
to use the cone burner as a subsonic gas diffuser; that is - simultaneously
burning the premixed gas and diffusing the flames, (slowing the velocity
while increasing the pressure of the flow).

If this is possible, then the boiler (recuperator) could be supercharged
simply by using a properly shaped cone burner to diffuse the subsonic flow of
combustion gases as they expand.

You can find a diagram of the proposed device at the following website. It
is not to proportion but I think it incorporates all the key elements.

http://hometown.aol.com/vharris001/myhomepage/personal.html

I've been able to locate information on cone burners. I''ve also been able
to locate information on diffusion of subsonic flows. But I've not had any
luck finding information on combining the two for the purpose of pressure
recovery.

I suspect the technical phrasing would be something like this: "Diffusion
and pressure recovery of confined premixed flames in a divergent channel."
Or perhaps, "Pressure recovery from heating of a subsonic flow in an
increasing diameter pipe."

Is anyone able to provide any relevant information regarding this phenomenon?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Regards,
Vernon Harris

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From thomas at biopilze.de Tue Jun 5 02:03:55 2001
From: thomas at biopilze.de (Thomas Ziegler)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:24 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: dokogen-atmos-company... in germany ??
In-Reply-To: <9f8t21+6e89@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3B1C75A7.4227F457@biopilze.de>

fek@mappi.helsinki.fi (20 years old finnish biologystudent) has asked me
via email: about a factory called dokogen-atmos supposed that they got a
webpage, too and that there were distributors in germany... he tried to
contact them but got no reply... -they are said to produce special
gasifiers -good for putting in whole chunks of wood -instead of only
pellets/clippings/chips/... -any more data? anyone??

me,have NO idea, but would be pleased to work as your "contact person"
over here, in good old germany, so please direct me..., thomas

--
der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \
the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm
le petit eco - champignoneur allemand /

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From snkm at btl.net Tue Jun 5 19:44:40 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:24 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Fuel Cell Cars
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010605173840.008d4e70@wgs1.btl.net>

This is interesting -- one step closer to a small steam reforming device --
that is how they convert fuel to hydrogen.

And going into mass production soon!!

Peter Singfield / Belize

InfoBeat

InfoBeat - Report: Nissan to develop new cars

TOKYO (AP) - Nissan Motor Co. and Renault SA of France have
decided to develop cars with a fuel cell that runs on gasoline,
following the lead of the world's largest automakers, a Japanese
newspaper said Monday.
Fuel-cell cars run on electricity produced by taking hydrogen
from a liquid such as methanol or gasoline, and combining it with
oxygen from air. They emit only water and heat as exhaust and have
become the focal point of research in an industry seeking cleaner
alternatives to the internal-combustion engine.
Nissan, which is owned 36.8 percent by Renault, has opted for
the gasoline-powered fuel cell because of the likelihood that it
will become the American standard, the national Yomiuri newspaper
reported in a front page story.
Ritsuko Harimoto, a Nissan spokeswoman, could not immediately
comment on the report.
In January, General Motors Corp. of the United States and
Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. said they would join Exxon Mobil Corp.,
a major U.S. oil company, in an alliance to develop gasoline as the
source of energy for fuel-cell cars.
The announcement by the world's largest and third-largest
automakers led Nissan and Renault to come up with a similar model,
the Yomiuri said, quoting unidentified company sources.
Nissan and Renault will spend 85 billion yen ($714 million) on
the project and will market the fuel-cell vehicles as early as
2005, the newspaper said.
Regulators around the world are pressuring automakers to make
cars that generate no pollution particles or gases. By 2003,
California will require zero-emissions cars to make up 4 percent of
annual sales in the state.

[orig]

http://www.infobeat.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/IBFrontEnd.woa/wa/fullStory?artic
le=407953691

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From snkm at btl.net Tue Jun 5 22:22:46 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:24 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Fuel Cell Cars
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010605201908.008d46a0@wgs1.btl.net>

At 07:34 PM 6/5/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Steam reforming of gasoline to produce H2 also has to produce C02 from the
>carbon in the gasoline, so it is no solution to the global warming concerns
>of some people.
>
>A miniature steam reformer for a car seems impossible to me as a chemical
>engineer. We shall see..
>
>HWP

Hello Harry --

OK -- am passing on some old info (1998)-- appended -- that should address
most of your present concerns regarding validity of the above "claim". Can
post a lot more in depth technical info of actual research results since 1998.

Surprised you are not aware of this present art form.

By the way -- where have you been!! Have you not heard that the US has
declared -- "legally" speaking -- that CO2 is not to be classified as a
pollutant. Further -- over 17,000 scientists in the USA have signed written
declarations that CO2 in not responsible -- and can never be responsible --
for global warming. So there you go -- you can sleep well on that score!!

I hear they are going to achieve the same results with this same process --
and command the sun to stop in the sky for an extra two hours per day!

Now -- highlighting some of the pertinent info from the appended:

The Fuel Cell Vehicle is a hot issue at this moment (Fall 1998). A
fuel cell vehicle combines the high efficiencies and low pollution of
electric vehicles with the convenience of ordinary liquid fuels. In
the United States and in Europe, car manufacturers (Chrysler, GM,
Ford, Daimler) and oil companies (Exxon, Texaco, ARCO, Shell) team up
with R&D institutions for the development of fuel cell cars that run
on ordinary gasoline.

1. Fuel vaporizer
2. Partial oxidation reactor
3. Water-gas shift reactor
4. CO removal reactor
5. Fuel cells
6. Gasoline tank
7. Batteries
8. Electric motors

The principle of a fuel cell car is a series of reactors that
converts a hydrocarbon fuel into a gas, composed of hydrogen and
carbon dioxide. The partial oxidizer does the basic conversion. The
shift reactor and the CO removal reactor improve the quality of the
gas. Finally, a fuel cell uses the hydrogen to generate electricity.
This electricity is used to drive the car. A series of batteries is
installed as a buffer.

*******************

Does this sound "familiar to anyone on this list:

2. Partial oxidation reactor
3. Water-gas shift reactor

How about a gasifier in line with a steam reformer???

Something I have been harping on since the first day I joined this list!!

Be prepared for the shock of your life Harry -- with mass production --
they will be doing it so even the most common man can afford it!!

Hey -- all you people out there -- scale of economics or what?? Only comes
in giant sizes or what??

You are looking at the death blow for centralized power distribution -- do
you realize that yet??

And you know why?? Simple -- much higher over all efficiency than even
those monster coal burning power plants can ever hope to achieve -- in a
small box by your house -- or under the hood of your car!! And no
transmission losses!!

And Harry -- higher efficiency in the fossil fuel energy game means a great
reduction in CO2 emissions -- so all is not loss.

And how easy to tie one of these units -- ripped out of an "old" car -- to
your conventional gasifier using biomass -- and then on to the high
efficiency fuel cell -- hey -- cheap -- high efficiency -- biomass power!

Give it 20 more years ---

No -- then read on ---

Peter Singfield / Belize

*****************************************

Taken from:

http://www.ecn.nl/unit_fb/h2syngas/hydroc/fuelproc.html

Fuel Processing of Utility Fuels (Information page)
------------------------------------------------------------------

ECN is expanding its reforming research into fuel processing of
utility fuels for mobile and stationary applications. Motivation for
this expansion is the current interest in the fuel cell cars using
gasoline and diesel, as well as a growing interest in residential
combined heat and power (RCHP) with fuel cells. A third field of
applications is the semi-mobile use in Navy ships.

Utility fuels

Utility fuels include natural gas, propane, lpg, gasoline, kerosine,
fuel oil and diesel. The common factor is, that they are easily
obtained by companies and individual consumers, unlike hydrogen,
methanol and ethanol for which no infrastructure exists. In the next
decades this infrastructure will be built, but the costs are
astronomic. Nobody can afford to pay the price at once. Therefore, a
transition has to be done in stages. Introducing fuel cells for
energy production (mobile or stationary) with fuel processing of
easily available fuels is the first logical step.

Fuel Cell Cars

The Fuel Cell Vehicle is a hot issue at this moment (Fall 1998). A
fuel cell vehicle combines the high efficiencies and low pollution of
electric vehicles with the convenience of ordinary liquid fuels. In
the United States and in Europe, car manufacturers (Chrysler, GM,
Ford, Daimler) and oil companies (Exxon, Texaco, ARCO, Shell) team up
with R&D institutions for the development of fuel cell cars that run
on ordinary gasoline.

[IMAGE] 1. Fuel vaporizer
2. Partial oxidation reactor
3. Water-gas shift reactor
4. CO removal reactor
5. Fuel cells
6. Gasoline tank
7. Batteries
8. Electric motors

The principle of a fuel cell car is a series of reactors that
converts a hydrocarbon fuel into a gas, composed of hydrogen and
carbon dioxide. The partial oxidizer does the basic conversion. The
shift reactor and the CO removal reactor improve the quality of the
gas. Finally, a fuel cell uses the hydrogen to generate electricity.
This electricity is used to drive the car. A series of batteries is
installed as a buffer.

Residential Combined Heat and Power Installations

The same technology, converting a common fuel to hydrogen and then to
electricity, can be used in stationary applications. This can be done
even at the scale of a single home, or larger (hotels, appartment
buildings, hospitals, etc.). Since the fuel cell operates at about 80
&degC and needs cooling, it will be easy to integrate the electricity
production with water heating. In this form an installation produces
electricity AND hot water. The ratio between heat and power depends
on the specifications of the installation and the demand for energy
at home. A surplus of electricity may be sold to the local power
company.

The following advantages of a fuel-cell based Residential Combined
Heat and Power (RCHP) system can be listed, when compared to regular
high-efficiency heaters:

1 The RCHP system will produce less pollution, no NOx, only carbon
dioxide and water.
2 The RCHP system will be more efficient, resulting in lower
greenhouse gas emission per capita
3 The RCHP system will reduce utility bills. You can even make a
profit by selling electricity to the power company

The fuel for a Residential Combined Heat and Power (RCHP) system
depends on what fuels are locally available. In the Netherlands,
almost all homes are connected to the natural gas network. It is also
the cheapest fuel available, so for the Netherlands an RCHP will
utilise natural gas.

For other countries, propane, fuel oil or diesel can be an option. In
the development of an RCHP one should therefore be fuel-flexible. It
is not likely that a single partial oxidizer can consume all these
fuels efficiently. Different RCHPs will be built for different fuels.
The largest differences will be in the design of the partial
oxidizer.

ECN's Programme for Processing of Utility Fuels

Fuel cell power technology is an important research area of ECN.
Currently, ECN is developing state-of-the-art methanol reformers in
the so-called MERCATOX Project[7].

ECN is also a European leader in fuel cell technology, (solid
polymer, molten carbonate and solid oxide). Now, ECN is extending its
research programme in the direction of processing utility fuels.

First goal

A specific first goal is to develop a small-scale power system (1-5
kWe): fuel to electricity, based on solid polymer fuel cells (SPFC)
and easily available fuels. The system as planned, must fulfil two
simple requirements:

* The system utilises a good number of utility fuels (natural gas,
LPG, gasoline, kerosine, and diesel (gasoil)
* The system produces a hydrogen-rich fuel gas, suitable for SPFC
(solid-polymer fuel cells).

When the small-scale system is up and running, ECN research will
focus on:

1 input (fuel) and output (hydrogen) of the overall system
2 gas concentrations in all units of the system (processor, shift
reactor, CO remover, etc.)
3 efficiency
4 sulfur tolerance
5 carbon deposit
6 etc., etc....

Also we want to know what the bottlenecks are in such a system, e.g.:
sulfur resistance, CO removal or soot deposition.

Scale-up to applications

The next step will be to scale-up and specifically design a system
for the following applications:

* Stationary: Residential Combined Heat and Power.

* Small RCHP systems placed at home, using natural gas and
producing electricity and hot water.
* Larger RCHP systems for appartment buildings, hotels or
hospitals, using natural gas, propane or diesel.
* Small power generators, e.g., for antennas for the cellular
phone network.

* Semi-mobile: Ships are another research topic for ECN. E.g., an
all-electric ship for the Navy.
* Mobile: Fuel-cell trucks, buses and trains are also of interest
to ECN. (Fuel cell passenger cars, are perhaps not an obvious
choice, because so many others are already investing billions of
dollars in it, but ECN has certainly interest in them.)

The ultimate goal

In the future, most energy supply in the world will be based on
electicity from wind mills, solar cells and... fuel cells using
hydrogen. But, before this is accomplished we must work on
introducing fuel cells to the consumer. A fuel cell car and a fuel
cell central heating system using utility fuels are only temporary
solutions. However, they form a necessary step towards the ultimate
goal. The only way to take this step in the current (economic)
situation is to make affordable fuel cell systems using common fuels.
This is now within our grasp. A good indication is the simple fact
that companies like Daimler-Benz, Chrysler and General Motors are
announcing the release of fuel cell cars in the next decade.

For more information, please contact

Jan Pels (pels@ecn.nl) or Michiel Verhaak (verhaak@ecn.nl).

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Netherlands Energy Research Foundation ECN, P.O. Box 1, 1755 ZG
Petten, The Netherlands
Updated: 22 April 1999
General Information: fb@ecn.nl

*** References from this document ***

[orig] http://www.ecn.nl/unit_fb/h2syngas/hydroc/fuelproc.html

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From A.Weststeijn at epz.nl Wed Jun 6 05:41:41 2001
From: A.Weststeijn at epz.nl (Weststeijn A)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: HHV and LHV RE: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and new fuels...
Message-ID: <E1780666C205D211B6740008C728DBFE9F5022@sp0016.epz.nl>

Dear Albrecht,

You write:
> In other words BEE = Buy Energy Efficient (Equipment) and BEE = Be Energy
> Efficient (in its Operation) is the trick.
> I refer to this as the (BEE)^2 problem of human failure to make correct
> decisions when it comes to energy or biomass.
>
I like that. How true. Like in E=BEE^2, the law of biomass optimization.
Worthwhile to hang on one's wall as well, as a steady reminder!

> Sometimes I get even scared if
> I look at the fuel cycle energy input and wonder: "Is it still positive."
>
There is a huge circuit of LCA people and science developing. Including
mucho academics, conferences, the works. All that human energy input spent
needs to be recuperated over time as well...
Fortunately, in reality, the crude calculations are not that complicated, as
opposed to the details.
Where I am at, those details start becoming increasingly important, since
they might determine the ranking order for investment subsidies, green tax
relieve etc.
(LCA=Life Cycle Analysis)

> And of course get the right efficiency definition, whatever that means.
>
Yes, as long as you keep comparing apples with apples, the rest is only
secundary.

> The Germans still use LHV, that's why Germany has boilers violating the
> second law of thermodynamics on paper, showing 102.7% thermal efficiency,
> since stackgas temperature is at 50 C .
>
We use LHV and have stack temperatures of 50 C but sure have no efficiencies
of over 100% !!!!!! But we are willing to learn...

> The Japanese and Taiwanese also use
> LHV since it is a good argument to beat the American competition when it
> comes to boiler sales .
>
Good going, never hurts to keep those Yankees on their toes.....they'll just
be stimulated to make better equipment....
.
> The Britsh use HHV. Educated buyers usually demand
> the efficiency be quoted on LHV and HHV basis. The whole exercise is
> sometimes academic since the efficencies are based on the design fuel,
> that
> seldom enters coal or biomass fueled boilers, anyway.
>
I beg to differ. It is never academic and it is always about money. Very
real money, no matter whether one works for a commercial or an ideologically
inspired organization.
Whether the design fuel itself is actually used or not does not impact the
appreciation of the answers based on it. Better fuels will always do better
and lesser fuels will do less, which in itself is no surprise, but a
straight forward cost-benefit item.
In reality one will often use a bandwidth of fuels, not a singular design
fuel.

> Buyers have to settle
> with an operational efficiency that may be well below the design
> efficiency.
> The big question in the field is to what extent it is worthwile to buy a
> super efficient boiler if conditions to run it are lousy.
>
Well, in that case, why buy a good and expensive machine if you have no use
for it? Now or in your future? That is throwing money away and does not help
the biomass development.
But I agree that a nagging question can be to what extent one has to factor
in room for growth (in volume, quality and public perception), in investment
cases covering easily 15-25 years. That is no easy management deliberation,
but in essence not different from development risks in other businesses.
And we probably agree: in biomass the optimum solutions are very localized
indeed.

best regards,
Andries Weststeijn
Essent Energie

 

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From A.Weststeijn at epz.nl Wed Jun 6 05:48:38 2001
From: A.Weststeijn at epz.nl (Weststeijn A)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: HHV and LHV RE: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and new fuels...
Message-ID: <E1780666C205D211B6740008C728DBFE9F5023@sp0016.epz.nl>

Thomas writes:

> 2) In the rest of the world, they use the LHV (water out as gas) because
> it
> is more realistic. But then in much of Europe they are beginning to
> condense the water. This is not possible with coal, because you get
> sulfuric/sulfurous acid as well, but with biomass it works fine. So many
> European devices can achieve more than 100% efficiency.
>
Thomas, condensing the water in flue gases of coal plants is already
practiced since the mid 80-ties, i.e. since wet sulfur scrubbers (wet FGD's)
were getting installed. Simply by showering the hot flue gas with cold
scrubbing solution. However, that condensation heat only makes for luke-warm
rather than cold gypsum (which is subsequently cooling in storage to ambient
temperature anyway), so in practice there is no value in that recovered
condensation heat.
The formation of sulfuric/sulfurous acid itself is not the problem, in fact
that is part of the solution (to rid the flue gas from acid-rain
components).
What is important, however, is the energy required to have the flue gas exit
the stack again with a certain velocity to disperse adequately (a licensing
requirement overhere). That energy can be provided either by fans or by
temperature (via old fashioned temperature induced draft). The temperature
route appears the preferred one, cost wise. This leads to the amazing
situation that the flue gas is purposefully reheated (by steam or
recuperative devices) before released from the stack and lost.....

Biomass installations fully recovering the heat of condensation WITHOUT
having to reheat the flue gas apparently have no dispersion requirements.
This probably only holds true for smaller plants on clean biomass. As soon
as these plants get bigger, and as soon as a mix of cleaner and lesser clean
biomasses (MSW derived?) is used as fuel, I expect that there will be
licensing requirements put on the dispersion rate (i.e. exit velocity) of
these plants as well, basically eliminating much of the calculated advantage
of condensation heat recovery.

> Luiz: However, the values given for fuels are usually on a dry basis. If
> the fuel contains water, you must deduct the heat of vaporization from the
> contained water as well when calculating the LHV. This can lead to even
> greater apparent efficiencies above 100%.
>
With the emphasis on "apparent", that is.
In the real world we are only interested in "real", so anybody calculating
anything should put in a proper correction term himself. Succesfully
selling boilers on better than 100% efficiency requires a special type of
client...(must have been the company's accountant, or worse yet, procurement
manager, going blindly for the highest numbers put in front of him?).

> Can we trade accounting methods between U.S. and the rest of the world?
> Or
> better yet, quote both always.
>
I believe quote both ways will be better for now, since -for the time being-
both methods have their numerical orders of magnitude stuck in peoples
minds.
It is like changing car engine power units, shifting from hp to kW: that
takes years for kW's to mean something to the majority of people.

> Note this is a non-issue for fuels that don't contain much H2 like
> charcoal
> and coke. This is an even greater issue for the hydrogen community.
>
True, the wetter, the more impact.
But even for chunky and dryish steam coal the difference is relevant!

best regards,
Andries Weststeijn
Essent Energie

 

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From delange at bioelettrica.it Wed Jun 6 06:19:04 2001
From: delange at bioelettrica.it (Henk de Lange)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Over 100 per cent efficiency
Message-ID: <000101c0ee71$ed295d00$0c20a8c0@bioelettrica.it>

To avoid misunderstandings.
When the example was made of a boiler with over 100 per cent
efficiency based on LHV, I am almost sure that reference was being
made to natural gas fired domestic boilers that many families have
installed for heating purposes. These devices, which cool the flue gas
to a very low temperature and remove them then with a fan, when calculating
their
thermal efficiency (as useful thermal heat divided by LHV times flow rate
natural gas),
have values of over 100 per cent.

Best regards,
Henk de Lange
--------------------------------------------------
H.J. de Lange M.Sc.(M.Eng.)
Technical Manager
Bioelettrica S.p.A.
Via Cesare Battisti, 47
56125 PISA
ITALY
Tel. +39-050-535479
Fax +39-050-535477
e-mail: delange@bioelettrica.it

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From delange at bioelettrica.it Wed Jun 6 06:21:43 2001
From: delange at bioelettrica.it (Henk de Lange)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Over 100 per cent efficiency
Message-ID: <000201c0ee72$4c106840$0c20a8c0@bioelettrica.it>

Excuse me,
In my previous posting I wrote "useful thermal heat". Haha, useful heat is
enough.
Sorry about that.

Henk

--------------------------------------------------
H.J. de Lange M.Sc.(M.Eng.)
Technical Manager
Bioelettrica S.p.A.
Via Cesare Battisti, 47
56125 PISA
ITALY
Tel. +39-050-535479
Fax +39-050-535477
e-mail: delange@bioelettrica.it

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From claush at mek.dtu.dk Wed Jun 6 08:51:52 2001
From: claush at mek.dtu.dk (Claus Hindsgaul)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Announcing homepage of Danish Biomass Gasification Group
Message-ID: <01060614501807.00914@ip132.et.dtu.dk>

Hello list,

I am proud to announce the launch of the homepage of the Biomass Gasification
Group at the Danish Technical University (DTU).

http://www.et.dtu.dk/Halmfortet

It still has several empty pages to be written, but you will allready find
the following useful ressources:

- Our publication list (from 1989 until now)
Some are in danish, but several in english.
Most recent publications are available as PDF-files for free download.

- Descriptions of our on going projects.

- Descriptions of our research areas.

- Contact information and staff list.

Enjoy!

Sincerely
Claus Hindsgaul

--
Research Assistant Claus Hindsgaul
Danish Technical University (DTU), Dept. of Mechanical Engineering.
Phone: (+45) 4525 4174, Fax: (+45) 4593 5761, http://www.et.dtu.dk/Halmfortet
claush@mek.dtu.dk

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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Jun 7 09:49:22 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Low Tech Briquettes
Message-ID: <a4.15243820.2850e009@cs.com>

(Be sure to change my address to tombreed@home.com.  I'm leaving CS after ~10
years.  Painful!)

Thanks for the interesting information on the low tech briquettes of Richard
Stanley.  

I believe you have here an opportunity to clarify terminology in this
emerging field, quick before it is hopelessly muddled.  

Since our book in 1979 I have used the term "densified biomass fuels" to
refer to pellets (California Pellet Mill, Sprout Waldron,  Shimada, and ???)
, cubes  (John Deere initially and now Warren and Berg) and logs (Prestolog
in the 1930s, and many makers now).

The keyword here is "densified", because most biomass has a very low true
density (0.2 to 0.6 kg/liter for wood, less for paper, msw, ....) while
densified fuels (under a pressure of ~ 10,000 psi) have densities in the 0.9
to 1.5 kg/liter. (1.5 is the true density of biomass-matter without the
enclosed air).  The work of compression is typically >75 kWh/ton and this
corresponds to measurements we made in a laboratory press with sawdust.  

I have used the term "briquettes" for materials made without much pressure
(pillow press) as in charcoal briquettes.  Charcoal briquettes are quite
dense because the charring process breaks down the cellular structure,
leaving the true mass.  The pillow press operates with much lower pressures
and work.  

So now appears "low tech briquettes".  You gave the dimensions, but not the
weight, so I can't calculate true density, but must be much lower than for
"densified" biomass.  Can you find out the weight and true density?

In no sense am I trying to put down the "low tech" briquettes.  I may try
them with my GD grass clippings, newspapers, junk mail etc.  I'm sure they
burn much better than their components.  

I would be happy to stick to the name "briquette" for these lower density
fuels, but I bow to your final judgment and decision in the matter.

When are you coming to visit????

Yours truly,                        TOM REED           BEF/CPC

In a message dated 4/30/01 10:30:31 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
tmiles@trmiles.com writes:

 

Elk et al.

We have a variety of fuel products represented on this list that fit a
variety of needs and circumstances. In manufactured fuels we have "high
tech" briquettes made with mechanized presses and binders and "low tech"
briquettes.

Richard Stanley of Legacy Foundation visited this weekend to show us his
"low tech" briquettes. They're formed wet from partially composted leaves,
wood etc. in a simple press and left in the sun to dry. The finished
briquette is a donut about 152 mm in diameter (6 in) and 75 mm thick (3 in)
with a hole in the middle. The fuel briquette burns cleanly (if you leave
out banana leaves). A 5-6 person micro-enterprise can produce about 500
briquettes per day at a cost between 60%-90% of competing wood or charcoal
fuels.

In exchange for labor ("sweat equity") the producers have a fuel briquette
in hand that they can sell for cash or barter.

The briquettes are used in traditional stoves and, as usual, acceptance
(marketing) is the biggest hurdle. Stanley has developed a five-step
process for introducing the product and technology. Since 1993 he has
introduced the briquettes in Malawi, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Nicaragua, Haiti,
Mali and Peru. Each community has found a particular benefit to the
process. And each site has adopted its own mix of fuels and slight
variations of the process. Next stops are Mexico and the Dominican
Republic. Sponsors have been organizations like the United Nations, Peace
Corps, missionary groups (ADR),  etc. He has also produced some good videos
that show the process and highlight the need for alternatives to fuel wood.

I think there are opportunities to develop stoves suited to the briquettes
and even to gradually mechanize production depending on the location and
circumstance.

The process is described in an article Stanley and others wrote for the
February 2001 edition of Chemical Innovation. Go to the Bioenergy Reference
Sites page on CREST and select Stoves and "Low Tech Briquettes"

http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/#stoves

Or shoot to the article at:

http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/ci/31/i02/html/02mcdougal.html

Richard recently joined the Stoves list where he has found friends that he
knows from his travels.

Regards,

Tom Miles

 

 

Thomas R Miles        tmiles@trmiles.com
T R Miles, TCI            Tel 503-292-0107
1470 SW Woodward Way    Fax 503-292-2919
Portland, OR 97225 USA

 

Dr. Thomas B. Reed
The Biomass Energy Foundation
TomBReed@home.com
www.woodgas.com

From HPARKER at ttacs.ttu.edu Fri Jun 8 08:12:32 2001
From: HPARKER at ttacs.ttu.edu (Harry W. Parker)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Fuel Cell Cars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010605201908.008d46a0@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <002201c0f013$f1ea8fa0$299b0f18@lbbck1.tx.home.com>

Hello all,

With regard to proposed new technologies it is best to look at some
constraints of science, engineering, and economics as follows:

Fuel cells are inherently expensive. They require five or more layers of
sophisticated materials -- anode, cathode, electrolyte, and current
collectors on the anode and cathode surface. The anode and cathode require
sophisticated metal catalysts that are subject to poisoning if there are
impurities in the gas. They scale-up poorly, almost directly $/sq.ft.
since they are characterized by a "area parameter" amps/sq. meter. A vast
reduction in these costs for fuel cells is not probable.

Reformers are inefficient. The gasification / reforming reactions are very
endothermic -- they require energy. The gasoline/fuel cell car must live
with this inefficiency, as well as the necessary CO2 emissions to get
dispose of the carbon in gasoline.

Large companies can invest in risky expensive systems to appease the public,
regulators and even stockholders. In addition availability of federal
research dollars can distort the apparent immediate economics of a system.
(When reality "sets in" reactions are different. Note the backing away from
the all electric cars in Calif.)

If fossil CO2 emissions are a concern, that concern is most economically
managed at large-scale electric generating facilities. There are a wide
variety of choices ---- CO2 recovery and sequestration in the ocean or
saline aquifers (my current research activity), nuclear, biomass, solar,
wind, geothermal.

Harry W. Parker, Ph.D., P.E.
Professor of Chemical Engineering
& Consulting Engineer
Texas Tech University
Lubbock, TX 79409-3121
806.742.1759 fax 742.3552

 

 

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From snkm at btl.net Fri Jun 8 11:43:58 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Fuel Cell Cars
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010608094104.00931350@wgs1.btl.net>

 

It may be endothermic -- but it is not inefficient. The heat absorbed in
this endothermic reaction is converted into a higher btu fuel value
product. Nothing is lost.

Partial combustion followed by steam reformation was the standard gas plant
procedure for municipal gas supply well over 100 years back --- using coal.
Along with the coking pre-processing.

Efficiencies were quite acceptable. Would be interesting to compare over
all efficiencies of using coal in this manner -- that is producing a gas --
with coal fired electrical power plant generation -- for the modern house
keeper cooking food, heating water and house, lighting, refrigeration, etc.
etc. -- which can all be done with gas delivered to the home.

And to go one step further -- a small fuel cell system -- much smaller than
described for the car application -- being used for power for electronic
devices.

Ergo -- if one looks carefully -- it may well be that this ancient form of
gasification can be a replacement for central power plants. Instead of huge
coal fired power plants of increasing complexity -- one would have the same
operation gasifying coal for distribution.

Also -- one could increase the size of that house-hold fuel cell to include
charging the electric car. But batteries are the problem --

I see no problems with eventually using coal directly as a fuel for all
vehicles -- through fuel cell technology.

As for the mind boggling technical gizmos required to achieve all this in a
modern automobile (or a modern house-hold) -- when was the last time you
took down a modern car engine -- or transmission -- etc??

In comparison -- building a fuel cell unit as they are proposing is not
much a technological problem -- especially in light of recent advancements
in control instrumentation -- which greatly simplifies such processes.

It is however -- all about mass production.

You may be right about CO2 emissions -- you should be complaining to Pres.
Bush.

In the interim (that is while you are out there trying to convince Bush
that CO2 emissions are a problem) fuel cell technology as described will be
producing a much cleaner exhaust -- and less of it!

The "real" solution for this planet is for either the entire human race to
regress back to stone age style existence -- not using fossil fuels -- or
any energy except cooking fires or -- we start building a lot of nuclear
power plants.

I personally prefer the nuclear power plants scenario -- but many of the
citizens of the same modern countries that are the root problem of CO2
emissions despise the method of power production.

So the answer is simple -- prepare yourself for the end of human existence
as we now know it.

Theory is one thing -- but data is showing an ever increasing yearly
consumption of fossil fuels. And Pres. Bush is not one of the world leaders
interested in slowing this trend.

I could through in some references about the last turn of the wheel -- when
people complained of the shift from horse to IC engine powered vehicles --
but one has to wonder if they were not right - even though for the wrong
assumptions.

We certainly would be having much less CO2 emmissions -- from fossil fuels
-- if we had stayed in the horse drawn era. Plus think of all that fertilzer!

Peter Singfield / Belize

At 07:10 AM 6/8/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>With regard to proposed new technologies it is best to look at some
>constraints of science, engineering, and economics as follows:
>
>Fuel cells are inherently expensive. They require five or more layers of
>sophisticated materials -- anode, cathode, electrolyte, and current
>collectors on the anode and cathode surface. The anode and cathode require
>sophisticated metal catalysts that are subject to poisoning if there are
>impurities in the gas. They scale-up poorly, almost directly $/sq.ft.
>since they are characterized by a "area parameter" amps/sq. meter. A vast
>reduction in these costs for fuel cells is not probable.
>
>Reformers are inefficient. The gasification / reforming reactions are very
>endothermic -- they require energy. The gasoline/fuel cell car must live
>with this inefficiency, as well as the necessary CO2 emissions to get
>dispose of the carbon in gasoline.
>
>Large companies can invest in risky expensive systems to appease the public,
>regulators and even stockholders. In addition availability of federal
>research dollars can distort the apparent immediate economics of a system.
>(When reality "sets in" reactions are different. Note the backing away from
>the all electric cars in Calif.)
>
>If fossil CO2 emissions are a concern, that concern is most economically
>managed at large-scale electric generating facilities. There are a wide
>variety of choices ---- CO2 recovery and sequestration in the ocean or
>saline aquifers (my current research activity), nuclear, biomass, solar,
>wind, geothermal.
>
>Harry W. Parker, Ph.D., P.E.
>Professor of Chemical Engineering
> & Consulting Engineer
>Texas Tech University
>Lubbock, TX 79409-3121
>806.742.1759 fax 742.3552
>
>
>
>
>
>

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From snkm at btl.net Fri Jun 8 15:42:51 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Bush to act on global warming!!!
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010608133841.008ecaa0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Listers -- the bottom line of this news release is very interesting.

My translation:

If the 3rd world is willing to revert completely to a stone age existence
-- we here in "first" world might start considering reducing CO2 levels.

Actually -- I would have no problems with this (as a 3rd world resident) --
but would expect the US of A would still find a way to renege on "promises"
-- at least if one considers all past recorded actions in this domain.

The "true" solution is dramatically simple -- adopt nuclear power plants
immediately -- shut down all fossil fuel power plants -- save the world
from global warming.

We here in Belize have a very geographically stable area of granite
deposits -- for a negotiable price we would be willing to stock-pile all
nuclear wastes at profound depths in this area -- say 2 miles plus --
straight down. Then we could be "heroes" as well -- right???

Peter Singfield -- Belize / Central America

*****************************

InfoBeat - Bush to act on global warming

By JOHN HEILPRIN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush now has ``a basis of sound
science on which decisions can be made'' on global warming, his
spokesman said Thursday, a day after the White House got a report
concluding the phenomenon is a real problem and getting worse.
``The president is committed to reducing global warming,''
spokesman Ari Fleischer told reporters.
Asked if the United States bears special responsibility as the
world's largest producer of heat-trapping greenhouse gases,
Fleischer said, ``The president believes that all nations have a
responsibility.''
Bush, who asked for the study by the National Academy of
Sciences to help the administration decide what steps to take to
combat climate change, now faces mounting pressure from critics at
home and abroad who want the United States to enter a global
warming treaty.
The study found global warming ``is real and particularly strong
within the past 20 years'' and said a leading cause is emissions of
carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels. It also said that
greenhouse gases are accumulating in the Earth's atmosphere as a
result of ``human activities.''
``There's no question that part of the cause is human
activity,'' Fleischer said Thursday. ``The question is how much of
the cause is human activity.''
The academy's report found that by the year 2100, temperatures
are expected to increase between 2.5 degrees and 10.4 degrees
Fahrenheit above those of 1990.
Bush assembled a Cabinet-level working group on global warming
in March, about two weeks after he backed away from a campaign
pledge to regulate carbon dioxide emissions from power plants.
About the same time, he rejected an international pact negotiated
in 1997 in Kyoto, Japan, requiring industrial nations to reduce
greenhouse gases by specified amounts.
Bush has been meeting this week with Cabinet members to decide
strategy on how to sell his almost-finished proposal for a
global-warming agreement.
Senior administration officials say Bush, preparing for talks on
the issue next week in Europe, hopes to surprise skeptical allies
with a strong statement next Monday committing the United States to
combatting global warming.
Fleischer previewed Bush's statements Thursday, saying ``the
world has a responsibility to face up to this.''
But Bush won't carry a detailed Kyoto alternative to Europe.
Administration officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
Bush will allude to a series of mostly voluntary initiatives.
Among the likely initiatives Bush will endorse is creating a
trading market where industrial polluters far exceeding emission
standards could buy offsetting credits from those who pollute
little, the officials said.
Such a system would effectively establish emission caps, the
officials said. They didn't address how the standards would be
established and enforced, but insisted that Bush's plan will have
teeth.
The issue is causing Bush headaches domestically and
internationally. In addition to criticism and outrage from allies,
GOP polls show that doubts about his stance on global warming and
other environmental issues has hurt his job approval rating.
Critics say Bush has been too slow to accept some of the science
that others feel is well-established.
``The Europeans are very discouraged and frustrated with the way
the Bush administration has dealt with this,'' House Minority
Leader Dick Gephardt, D-Mo., said Thursday. ``My hope is that they
will get back into a negotiation with the rest of the world.''
Sweden's prime minister also said Thursday he is hopeful
European leaders and Bush can agree this month to ``go on with the
process'' of addressing climate change despite U.S. opposition.
``We just can't sit still and see the whole process collapse,''
said Goeran Persson, whose country holds the rotating presidency of
the 15-nation European Union. ``Hopefully, we will be able to have
a result with the Americans that tells us that we both want to go
on with the process, but we agree to disagree so far about the
substance.''
Bush is scheduled to meet with 15 European Union leaders in
Goteborg, Sweden, on June 14-15. He has insisted that any treaty
include developing countries and assure that pollution reductions
don't damage the U.S. economy.
The Senate also went on the record before the Kyoto treaty was
negotiated saying that any global warming accord mandating
greenhouse gas reductions for industrial countries should also
require them for developing nations.

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From LINVENT at aol.com Fri Jun 8 17:26:16 2001
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Bush to act on global warming!!!
Message-ID: <f4.b0b103a.28529c9e@aol.com>

Dear Peter,
I wonder how much we would have to pay the government to get acceptance
of storing wastes down there. Probably less than the several billiion which
has been spent on Carlsbad WIPP site here in New Mexico which is only for low
level wastes.
The answer to nuclear waste is to recycle it. The breeder reactor,
separation processes and the plant which was terminated during the Carter
administration because of fear of the products ending up in terrorists' hands
should be revived.

 

Sincerely,
Leland T. Taylor
President
Thermogenics Inc.
7100-2nd St. NW, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87107
phone 505-344-4846 fax 505-344-6090
Attached files are zipped and can be decompressed with <A
HREF="http://www.aladdinsys.com/expander/">www.aladdinsys.com/expander/ </A>

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From ericbj at club-internet.fr Fri Jun 8 20:20:42 2001
From: ericbj at club-internet.fr (Eric Bruce Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Bush to act on global warming!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010608133841.008ecaa0@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <3B216F33.5C724B6B@club-internet.fr>

 

Peter Singfield a écrit:

> The "true" solution is dramatically simple -- adopt nuclear power plants
> immediately -- shut down all fossil fuel power plants -- save the world
> from global warming.

The "true" problem of the world does not reduce to a technical or even to an
energy question (when much of the developed world's food is flown in from far
off places, energy is too cheap; otherwise we should organize things
differently).

We are confronted with a problem of society - a social, an economic problem,
of global proportions. So that is where the solution must firstly be sought.

And what is this problem? It is the rabid scramble for illusory wealth - in
essence mainly status symbols - that is making "westerners" better off while
reducing to dire straits many others in the poorer countries. Is it better to
be poor, settled and self-sufficient or uprooted and starving?

In "developing" nations, it is often a small elite that gets rich and the
common people carry the burden of a colossal international debt - "aid" that
has too often been incurred on useless prestige projects that feed fat profits
to companies and sometimes politicians from the "donor" country, and line the
Swiss bank accounts of the recipient countries' statesmen/dictators.

Excessive concentration of financial power threatens, amongst other things,
such real democracy as we have in the world. We need to be thinking of how we
can disseminate wealth, genuine well-being, enabling the grass-roots people to
stand on their own two feet rather than destroying their livelihoods.

There are plenty of reasons for opposing nuclear energy, so I cite but one of
them : it concentrates economic and political power. The wrong path.

Let's get back to basics, I mean to woodgas.

>
>
> We here in Belize have a very geographically stable area of granite
> deposits -- for a negotiable price we would be willing to stock-pile all
> nuclear wastes at profound depths in this area -- say 2 miles plus --
> straight down. Then we could be "heroes" as well -- right???

How do your neighbours feel about this?

 

 

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From thomas at biopilze.de Fri Jun 8 20:40:11 2001
From: thomas at biopilze.de (Thomas Ziegler)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: nuclear energy; was: Re: GAS-L: Bush to act on global warming!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010608133841.008ecaa0@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <3B216FE2.C1ADDA21@biopilze.de>

>...plenty of reasons for opposing nuclear energy, so I cite but one of
> them : it concentrates economic and political power. The wrong path.
> Let's get back to basics, I mean to woodgas.
yeeeaaahhh!!
-and additionally the next days as (engineer of physics and) french and
german activists we are blocking the transportation of nuclear wastes in
a container called castor from german nuclear power plants philipsburg
and biblis bound for the "so-called-recycling" plant in france (-what is
nothing than a huge emmittent of radiation, -they pollute the atlantic
ocean really tremendiously over here (-btw under german standards this
french plant would not get permission to operate!!!! thomas
--
der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \
the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm
le petit eco - champignoneur allemand /

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From snkm at btl.net Sat Jun 9 12:01:34 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: nuclear energy; was: Re: GAS-L: Bush to act on global warming!!!
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010609095819.00929730@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Hey Guys -- regarding the social solution -- it is called all out war over
diminishing resources. Will be a nuclear event this turn of the wheel.

As long as all of you keep using high moral values to procrastinate doing
anything real -- we can rest assured we will be all around to witness this
"final" solution.

I would think that you al should be getting a grip of what we have in store
-- just watching current events -- such as this present example -- The Bush
Shuffle.

We have no chance of changing our "spots" at this late date.

The Greens and the anti-nukes will make fine cannon fodder for that last
great battle. It takes dedicated "ignorance" to push a human into war mode
-- and we certainly have no shortage there -- do we??

Keep on lulling yourselves into a false complacency -- if you think that
helps -- because what chance do we have now to execute the proper actions
to save our selves??

Especially when everyone is throwing around that popular catch-word
"Democracy" for all the people.

I agrees more with Cicero -- as he stated over 2200 years ago -- and has
been well recorded:

Democracy is just another word for rule of the mob by the mob.

Keep dreaming you Euros -- it is always you guys that build yourselves up
the highest regarding "moral" standards of "humanity" and then fall the
hardest.

If nukes had been as prolific the last turn of the war wheel -- we would
probably not even be here to shout like this at each other.

As my German Uncle put it so often -- the human race should have destroyed
itself totally that time -- so the planet could get on with evolving into a
proper existence.

We have simply prolonged our misery -- 57 years.

With the way you guys carry on -- still living in some fantasy land -- I am
having little doubt about future outcomes.

Soon will be time to burn this computer -- my single terminal to this
modern world of "yours" -- buy some machetes -- and head for the high
ground in the Maya Mountains to live like a primitive.

"Civilization" as we know it is far to brain damaged to result in a
sustainable human existence on this planet.

You can fool yourselves with all that "propaganda" -- but you are not
fooling me!!

Now I know that the conversion to nuclear energy will never occur -- and
while you dreamers procrastinate -- on the basis of democratic social
solutions -- this world will keep heating up due to CO2 emissions -- crop
failures are eminent -- and all out war soon to follow.

Thanks for keeping me up to date. I will re-ajust my schedule for reverting
to a primitive existence accordingly.

Now -- you all go back to "sleep" -- sweet dreams -- and no bed bugs.

For me -- it is the swinging of a machete -- chipping down a big tree -- to
open canopy -- to plant my corn and beans -- trapping wild-life for meat as
they come to browse.

Hey -- worse ways to spend ones old age -- certainly much better than the
old age you guys have in store.

Nulcear "energy" is here to stay -- it is only a question in what manner it
is to be applied. As a weapon of great destruction or as a tool of human
salvation. There is no 3rd solution.

Peter

At 02:37 AM 6/9/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>>...plenty of reasons for opposing nuclear energy, so I cite but one of
>> them : it concentrates economic and political power. The wrong path.
>> Let's get back to basics, I mean to woodgas.
>yeeeaaahhh!!
>-and additionally the next days as (engineer of physics and) french and
>german activists we are blocking the transportation of nuclear wastes in
>a container called castor from german nuclear power plants philipsburg
>and biblis bound for the "so-called-recycling" plant in france (-what is
>nothing than a huge emmittent of radiation, -they pollute the atlantic
>ocean really tremendiously over here (-btw under german standards this
>french plant would not get permission to operate!!!! thomas
>--
>der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \
>the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm
>le petit eco - champignoneur allemand /
>
>-
>Gasification List Archives:
>http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>
>Gasification List Moderator:
>Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
>www.webpan.com/BEF
>
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>-
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>http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
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>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>
>

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From thomas at biopilze.de Sat Jun 9 13:14:45 2001
From: thomas at biopilze.de (Thomas Ziegler)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: nuclear energy; was: Re: GAS-L: Bush to act on global warming!!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010609095819.00929730@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <3B22581E.A0342264@biopilze.de>

are we still within topic gasification?? -well: not really...!
-though certain aspects do touch gasification as well:
-think of how to power large h2-production-processes in the future...!

-so just a few final words from me about this off-topic issue:
(...if any more then via email but not via the list...)

-cause am no native speaker i had certain problems to hear out the
subtle sounds of peters post... anyway:

i am aware of the possible dark scenarios visible at a far horizon, that
s why i am here, always carefully reading and unfatiguable asking for
REAL DATA to promote gasification (very small scale) over here, too...

ok peter call me a dreamer, i try to realize my dreams step by step at
least at the scale i can have effect... AND am activist AND pray...!

sure me alone i cant stop the majority running into this "blind alley",
but anyone reading here could do his very best...we know what could
come out if WE slept, too...

ok, am also convinced of effects of so called morphogenetic fields -and
that WE ALL in a ~holografic manner~ stick together... i DO think we
are at a great bifurcation and i hope that we are effective enough to
get the pendule at the "right" (-what is right...??) direction -most
people sleep SO even a comparable small group of consciously acting
people can be effective...

anyway the planet doesnt need us... we need him + stable environments...
so go on peter "...plant your corn and beans..." me: mushrooms!, thomas

--
der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \
the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm
le petit eco - champignoneur allemand /

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From ericbj at club-internet.fr Sun Jun 10 08:44:28 2001
From: ericbj at club-internet.fr (Eric Bruce Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: nuclear energy; was: Re: GAS-L: Bush to act on global warming!!!
Message-ID: <3B236C65.F2BB8AC1@club-internet.fr>

Peter Singfield a écrit:

> ... what chance do we have now to execute the proper actions
> to save our selves??
>
> Especially when everyone is throwing around that popular catch-word
> "Democracy" for all the people.
>
> I agrees more with Cicero -- as he stated over 2200 years ago -- and
has been well >recorded:
>
> Democracy is just another word for rule of the mob by the mob.

One would have thought that attitudes might have improved over a couple
of millenia!

Rome, for all its "glory", was the enslaver of much of Europe, of North
Africa, of the Middle East. Its mobs originated from a peasantry
uprooted by slavery and the latifundia of wealthy land-grabbers. They
had to be pacified with free bread, which contributed to turning much of

North Africa into the desert it is today (modern parallels?), and with
perverted distractions in the form 'circuses' (more modern parallels?).

When we cease to measure progress purely in technical, military and
monetary terms and seek instead achievement in the widest possibly
satisfaction of human needs, both material and those relating to the
spirit (in the broadest sense of the word), we shall be well on the way
to solving the man-made problems confronting humanity.

We shall have brought art back into our lives.

 

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From CAVM at aol.com Sun Jun 10 08:58:49 2001
From: CAVM at aol.com (CAVM@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: nuclear energy; was: Re: GAS-L: Bush to act on global warming!!!
Message-ID: <79.15ecd07e.2854c895@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/10/2001 7:44:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
ericbj@club-internet.fr writes:

<< When we cease to measure progress purely in technical, military and
monetary terms and seek instead achievement in the widest possibly
satisfaction of human needs, both material and those relating to the
spirit (in the broadest sense of the word), we shall be well on the way
to solving the man-made problems confronting humanity. >>

I agree with you in theory but in practice the way we accomplish the
satisfaction of the needs of the world and mankind in general is capitalism.
When the people want it, we provide it. We assume the people are the best
judge of what they want and need. When they satisfy their needs they then
can make art.

Another way to accomplish this same goal, in theory, is to have the
government provide these things but we have seen many times that in order for
the government to giveth, it must first taketh away. And it is a highly
inefficient producer.

We will provide electrical power to remote farms in Mexico so that the local
population has employment. We use animal waste for fuel. The large farming
group will double its gross income by having electrical power and the people
will have stable employment. Not to mention making use of a local waste
material.

We will provide a constructed wetland for a large shrimp farm to clean their
discharge into the estuary. This wetland will grow salt tolerant oil seed
plants for fuel and animal feed, plus the stems will be fuel.

We do this because we are being paid to do it, not for free. However, the
projects have a positive effect on the income statement of the client farms.
They will make more than what the projects cost and the local population
benefits too.

C. Van Milligen
Kentucky Enrichment Inc.
Byproduct processors

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From kenboak at stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk Sun Jun 10 12:29:42 2001
From: kenboak at stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk (Ken Boak)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Shredded green Wood Waste and peat
Message-ID: <00ed01c0f1ca$96f80ba0$13ad883e@boakk>

Tom and Gasification list members,

Has anyone any rough data on the density and calorific value of waste from
tree surgery i.e. shredded "green" wood waste. Some idea of the range of
moisture content of this material would be appreciated.

We have a lot of this in the UK and it normally sells for $55 per cubic
metre. The tree surgeons generally tow a diesel powered shredder behind
their tall sided truck. Municipal waste sites often have similar shredders
for green garden waste. This normally ends up being composted.

Your density and energy density chart of common materials was of some use
and I estimate that once dried that it would have perhaps about 18MJ/litre
energy density.

Has anyone tried gasifying this material fresh from the shredder?

Is there a certain MCBW above which gasification becomes
difficult/impossible?

My final question regards peat. Has anyone had any success in gasifying
this?

Sorry for so many questions but I have a ready source of these materials
being offered free, and I would love to know whether they will gas or not.

 

Regards,

 

Ken Boak

 

 

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From LINVENT at aol.com Sun Jun 10 12:47:44 2001
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Global warming
Message-ID: <9c.f35d4c8.2854fe48@aol.com>

Dear Global warmers,
Two recent articles appearing in Sciences, Spring 2001, a publication of
the New York Academy of Sciences cast serious doubts upon the greenhouse gas
theory and the Kyoto Accords. The one theory linking solar wind to earth
warming is probably the best in my opinion explaination for global warming
and has definite links from cause to effect, no other theory has such strong
links. See page 8. Greenhouse gases have nothing to do with the process.
There is a group of thinkers who believe that the ice ages are caused
from increased CO2 accumulation and cooling of the earth by convection of
heat into the upper atmosphere. They operate under the nom de plume of "The
Coming Ice Age" and choose to see remineralizing the earth to promote plant
growth as the manner of reducing the CO2 content. If the statement about
removing plant matter to feed hordes of Europeans in the Roman Times is
correct, remineralizing the earth will promote plant growth and absorb CO2.
Absorption of solar energy by plants is a definite way to reduce surface
temperature. Cities reflect a great deal of heat back into the atmosphere.
Reducing man's construction of population densities is certainly one way to
reduce atmospheric heating.
This relates to gasification in a very strong way. if biomass production
is increased dramatically per unit area, then smaller areas are needed to
produce for a given biomass process, transportation is reduced as a major
cost of a biomass system. I have doubled or tripled production of biomass on
a per unit basis through remineralization. One of the methods is release of
CO2 in the soil for plant assimilation which reduces the atmospheric and
photosynthetic production reliance on CO2 use.
Perhaps this evolves the concerns about our long term existence into a
more manageable scenario.

Sincerely,
Leland T. Taylor
President
Thermogenics Inc.
7100-2nd St. NW, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87107
phone 505-344-4846 fax 505-344-6090
Attached files are zipped and can be decompressed with <A
HREF="http://www.aladdinsys.com/expander/">www.aladdinsys.com/expander/ </A>

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From snkm at btl.net Sun Jun 10 13:07:39 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Global warming
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010610110254.008e2bb0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Actually -- I doubt that CO2 is a direct cause of global warming --
probably it is some shift in planetary conditions -- of such long term --
that we are not aware -- or forewarned of it.

However -- an "intelligent" solution might well be global "terra-forming"
starting with a reduction in atmospheric CO2 to counter this "natural"
event. (And watching closely that methane "ice" -- so why not convert that
to CO2 (1/20 less absorbent) by using it as a power source??)

Because the bottom line is that the globe is heating -- and the results --
if allowed to continue -- will de a disaster for most of this present human
race. But not all -- never all.

Now -- besides all this -- we need the work such a program would generate
-- that is building power plants that would not be spewing "stored" CO2
into the atmosphere. Programs to increase carbon locking though biomass
propagation, reef building (starts by dissolving more CO2 in the oceans) --
etc.

But first -- we must "educate" Bush!

Saying the CO2 is not the root cause is not solving anything. It may not be
the cause -- but certainly is a great direction to start looking for a
solution.

Another would be generating a lot of clouds -- shutting down a percentage
of solar radiation than strikes our surface areas.

Hey -- burning some large tracks of forests could do that!! As well as
nuking a few volcanoes!! (I can "feel" the "Greens" cringing now)

For sure -- converting to nuclear energy in a short term would results in
an effect on atmospheric CO2 levels.

Course starting a full out nuclear war would also accomplish most of these
objectives.

Great clouds would be formed -- temperatures would plummet (nuclear ice-age
anyone) allowing the oceans to absorb all the extra CO2 so produced.

And still humans would survive to start all over again.

Silver lining in every cloud.

Peter

At 12:46 PM 6/10/2001 EDT, you wrote:
>Dear Global warmers,
> Two recent articles appearing in Sciences, Spring 2001, a publication
of
>the New York Academy of Sciences cast serious doubts upon the greenhouse gas
>theory and the Kyoto Accords. The one theory linking solar wind to earth
>warming is probably the best in my opinion explaination for global warming
>and has definite links from cause to effect, no other theory has such strong
>links. See page 8. Greenhouse gases have nothing to do with the process.
> There is a group of thinkers who believe that the ice ages are caused
>from increased CO2 accumulation and cooling of the earth by convection of
>heat into the upper atmosphere. They operate under the nom de plume of "The
>Coming Ice Age" and choose to see remineralizing the earth to promote plant
>growth as the manner of reducing the CO2 content. If the statement about
>removing plant matter to feed hordes of Europeans in the Roman Times is
>correct, remineralizing the earth will promote plant growth and absorb CO2.
>Absorption of solar energy by plants is a definite way to reduce surface
>temperature. Cities reflect a great deal of heat back into the atmosphere.
>Reducing man's construction of population densities is certainly one way to
>reduce atmospheric heating.
> This relates to gasification in a very strong way. if biomass production
>is increased dramatically per unit area, then smaller areas are needed to
>produce for a given biomass process, transportation is reduced as a major
>cost of a biomass system. I have doubled or tripled production of biomass on
>a per unit basis through remineralization. One of the methods is release of
>CO2 in the soil for plant assimilation which reduces the atmospheric and
>photosynthetic production reliance on CO2 use.
> Perhaps this evolves the concerns about our long term existence into a
>more manageable scenario.
>
>
>Sincerely,
>Leland T. Taylor
> President
> Thermogenics Inc.
>7100-2nd St. NW, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87107
>phone 505-344-4846 fax 505-344-6090
>Attached files are zipped and can be decompressed with <A
>HREF="http://www.aladdinsys.com/expander/">www.aladdinsys.com/expander/ </A>
>
>-
>Gasification List Archives:
>http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>
>Gasification List Moderator:
>Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
>www.webpan.com/BEF
>
>Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
>-
>Other Gasification Events and Information:
>http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>
>

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From Gavin at roseplac.worldonline.co.uk Sun Jun 10 17:38:06 2001
From: Gavin at roseplac.worldonline.co.uk (Gavin Gulliver-Goodall)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Shredded green Wood Waste and peat
In-Reply-To: <00ed01c0f1ca$96f80ba0$13ad883e@boakk>
Message-ID: <MABBJLGAAFJBOBCKKPMGAENPCCAA.Gavin@roseplac.worldonline.co.uk>

HI Ken,

Second question first:
Yes peat gasifies nicely if it is dry

First q second:
Prunings and urban arisings as they are known are very wet minimum 50% water
often up to 70% (wet basis) particularly in spring and summer.
Your tree surgeons etc are chipping to reduce volume not produce nice
combustible chip.
The material from tehm needs to be rechipped/ screened and dried. The green
bits tend to create poor handlability (bind the chips together when dry) and
are of very low density so add little to the cv.
CV of woodchips depends on species etc and moisture content and is typically
18Mj/kg on an oven dry basis.
There are a number of business around the UK who are developing projects to
collect, process and supply as fuel this type of material.
It is however less suitable than short roundwood harvested and proceed for
fuel due to the extra moisture and green bits. The lack of quality control
(of what is put in the skip) is also an issue.

If it is sold for $55 per cube that is a lot more than it is worth as a
fuel.

If you are serious about utilising wood fuel then you should join British
Biogen http://www.britishbiogen.co.uk/ and review the extensive literature
available to members on the subjects of fuel supply and conversion
technologies

Best regards
Gavin
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Boak [mailto:kenboak@stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 17:30
To: gasification@crest.org
Subject: GAS-L: Shredded green Wood Waste and peat

Tom and Gasification list members,

Has anyone any rough data on the density and calorific value of waste from
tree surgery i.e. shredded "green" wood waste. Some idea of the range of
moisture content of this material would be appreciated.

We have a lot of this in the UK and it normally sells for $55 per cubic
metre. The tree surgeons generally tow a diesel powered shredder behind
their tall sided truck. Municipal waste sites often have similar shredders
for green garden waste. This normally ends up being composted.

Your density and energy density chart of common materials was of some use
and I estimate that once dried that it would have perhaps about 18MJ/litre
energy density.

Has anyone tried gasifying this material fresh from the shredder?

Is there a certain MCBW above which gasification becomes
difficult/impossible?

My final question regards peat. Has anyone had any success in gasifying
this?

Sorry for so many questions but I have a ready source of these materials
being offered free, and I would love to know whether they will gas or not.

 

Regards,

 

Ken Boak

 

 

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From ZBihari at ormat.com Mon Jun 11 11:47:02 2001
From: ZBihari at ormat.com (Zoli Bihari)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small scale gasification unit for electricity
Message-ID: <727CFCBBE1C3D41181FC005004201AA06CB36E@www.ormat.com>

 

Hi to all of you,

I wonder if Associated Engineering Works from India are the only ones
with a small (up to 20 kWe) gasification based electricity generation unit.

If you know about others, please inform me.

Thanks

Zoli Bihari
R&D - Ormat Ltd. - Israel
Tel: 972 (8) 9433731
Fax: 972(8)9439901
E-mail: zbihari@ormat.com
zolib@coolingzone.com

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From enecon at ozemail.com.au Tue Jun 12 06:01:47 2001
From: enecon at ozemail.com.au (Jim Bland)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Shredded green Wood Waste and peat
In-Reply-To: <00ed01c0f1ca$96f80ba0$13ad883e@boakk>
Message-ID: <000001c0f326$f337c880$0582140a@Jim>

Ken,

Most of my experience is with eucalyptus leaves. For chipped whole trees,
we work on:

Density: 300-350 kg/m3
LHV (wood) 9.3 GJ/t @ 43% MC
LHV (leaves) 9.5 GJ/t @ 56% MC - I suspect other species might have a
lower LHV, as the eucalyptus oil content would have a positive effect.

Both these figures are for freshly harvested trees.

Gasification of the wood should not be difficult, but the leaves may well
have a low ash fusion temperature, requiring special measures to keep the
leaf ash below this temperature, to avoid slag formation. You will need to
do a test on the leaves to determine this temperature.

Gasification can be done at any realistic MC, but the efficiency is improved
markedly as MC decreases. An MC of 20-25% is usually regarded as the
target, but higher levels can be made to work with the right equipment and
process.

Regards,

Jim

Enecon Pty. Ltd.
35 Whitehorse Rd., Deepdene VIC 3103, Australia
PO Box 555, Deepdene DC VIC 3103, Australia
Tel: +61-3-9817 6255
Fax: +61-3-9817 6455
www.enecon.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Boak <kenboak@stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 2:29 AM
Subject: GAS-L: Shredded green Wood Waste and peat

> Tom and Gasification list members,
>
> Has anyone any rough data on the density and calorific value of waste from
> tree surgery i.e. shredded "green" wood waste. Some idea of the range
of
> moisture content of this material would be appreciated.
>
> We have a lot of this in the UK and it normally sells for $55 per cubic
> metre. The tree surgeons generally tow a diesel powered shredder behind
> their tall sided truck. Municipal waste sites often have similar
shredders
> for green garden waste. This normally ends up being composted.
>
> Your density and energy density chart of common materials was of some use
> and I estimate that once dried that it would have perhaps about 18MJ/litre
> energy density.
>
> Has anyone tried gasifying this material fresh from the shredder?
>
> Is there a certain MCBW above which gasification becomes
> difficult/impossible?
>
> My final question regards peat. Has anyone had any success in gasifying
> this?
>
> Sorry for so many questions but I have a ready source of these materials
> being offered free, and I would love to know whether they will gas or not.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Ken Boak
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
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>
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>
>

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From ericbj at club-internet.fr Fri Jun 15 18:11:19 2001
From: ericbj at club-internet.fr (Eric Bruce Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconuts Power A Filipino Village
Message-ID: <3B2A8B46.307C1503@club-internet.fr>

A deathly hush has settled over the list,
so I quote the following from the Far Eastern Economic Review, 5th April
2001, in case it might be of some interest :-

A pioneering project will use a resource that's plentiful and
environmentally friendly to provide villagers with electricity and jobs

IF THERE IS ONE THING the village of Alaminos has a lot of, it's
coconuts. But there are a lot of other things this little Filipino
village, 195 kilometres southeast of Manila, doesn't have, such as
electricity and jobs. Now the coconuts are going to be used to give
some 500 villagers both.

In April, a Colorado-based company, Community Power Corp., will begin
testing what it calls a Small Modular Biopower system, which uses
coconut shells in a combustion engine that can generate 12.5 kilowatts
of electricity, more than enough to keep lights and small appliances
going all day in 100 houses with five occupants each.

The exhaust heat from the engine and some of the electricity will power
a plant run by the Alaminos Coconut Development Cooperative, which the
village has just set up to process the kernel of the coconut, or copra,
from which coconut oil is extracted. And the new jobs in the copra
factory will help the villagers pay for the rest of the electricity from
the Biopower system that will go to their homes.

"It's the first place in the world that we know of where this process
will be used to create electricity and heat for productive use," says
Community Power Chairman Art Lilley. But more important still is the
integrated approach that involves not just selling power to a community,
but helping them to create jobs to pay for it. "It's the wealth creation
that is really important," says Lilley. "If we can be effective we will
create the wealth that will help the people of Alaminos to buy the
electricity."

Combining a renewable energy source with the means to pay for it is a
model that has particular relevance in the Philippines. It is far too
expensive to connect the thousands of far-flung villages scattered
across the country's 7,000-odd islands to the main electricity grids.
And few of these rural communities have the funds to invest in their own
electricity generators.

About 20% of the country's villages, known as barangays, still have no
electricity, according to the Department of Energy. And more than half
of those barangays, or about 5,000, are too isolated, either by
mountains or because they are on small islands, to be connected to any
electricity grid. In these rural hamlets, those who can afford them have
diesel-powered generators in their houses. But many more people rely on
dry-cell batteries to run their radios, car batteries to run some small
appliances and kerosene and candles for everything else.

It makes more sense for poor villages to use the natural resources that
they have to hand than to buy fossil fuels to run generators. That means
mini-hydroelectric plants, solar, ocean, or wind power and biomass from
agricultural waste, such as coconut shells.

"Especially in the last two or three years we've been increasingly
relying on alternative energy for electrifying off-grid villages," says
Rueben Quejas, chief science research specialist at the Department of
Energy's nonconventional energy division. The fact that renewable energy
sources are environmentally friendly is a big plus, Quejas says. But
realistically, the trend is being driven by the fact that it is "the
most appropriate and relatively low-cost option."

Still, finding the money to buy electricity remains a problem for many
villages. That's why the Community Power Corp. project has a livelihood
component, Lilley says.

Before, farmers in Alaminos sold their coconuts whole to traders. Or
they broke the coconuts open, burned some of the shells on an open fire
to dry the copra in the smoke, then threw the rest on a rubbish heap.
The Small Modular Biopower system uses the shells to fuel a combustion
engine that produces gas to drive an electricity-producing turbine. The
hot air that comes out as exhaust heats a metal plate that dries the
copra. The engine, says Lilley, burns more cleanly than a diesel or a
liquefied petroleum gas-fuelled engine, and releases less methane gas
than a pile of rotting coconut shells.

The fibrous husks of the coconuts left after the shell and kernel are
extracted used to be thrown away; now they're woven into twine and
netting by the cooperative to use for growing orchids or preventing
erosion.

The project came about when Community Power executives, on a trip to
survey likely sites for the biopower project in 1999, met Florencio
Miraflores, the governor of Aklan province in central Philippines. The
most famous spot in Aklan is the island resort of Boracay. But
Miraflores took the executives to Alaminos instead. "He said, 'We have a
lot of coconuts there,' and they sure do," says Lilley.

Community Power had already been talking to Shell Renewables, a division
of the multinational energy company, about doing a project together;
they decided to start in Alaminos. First, the Colorado company surveyed
the villagers on their willingness and ability to pay for electricity,
and set rates based on the amount they spent previously on kerosene,
batteries and candles. Then in December 1999 Shell Renewables installed
a 3.5 kilowatt solar system to deliver electricity to around 100 houses.
The idea was to help the villagers get used to the idea of having
electricity in their houses and paying for it until the Small Modular
Biopower system was up and running. Shell Renewables' SunStation also
has a natural-gas component that kicks in between 6 p.m. and 7 p.m. when
demand in Alaminos peaks.

Each week the villagers pay in advance for their electricity, generally
an amount that averages between 50 pesos ($1) and 100 pesos. The payment
buys a certain amount of electricity per day and a meter in each house
measures the usage and cuts off the power when that day's allotment has
been used up. Since the companies aren't permitted by Philippine law to
act as utilities, Shell set up the Renewable Energy Foundation to handle
the payments.

The biopower system itself has just arrived in the Philippines and
Community Power will test it in the next couple of weeks, with full
operation starting in June. This start-up phase will be crucial in
determining if the project is sustainable and can eventually bring in
enough revenue to help the companies recover the capital investment
needed to set up the generators in the first place.

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From snkm at btl.net Sat Jun 16 11:33:34 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconuts Power A Filipino Village
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010616093016.009b6560@wgs1.btl.net>

At 12:25 AM 6/16/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>A deathly hush has settled over the list,
>so I quote the following from the Far Eastern Economic Review, 5th April
>2001, in case it might be of some interest :-
>
>A pioneering project will use a resource that's plentiful and
>environmentally friendly to provide villagers with electricity and jobs
>
>
>Each week the villagers pay in advance for their electricity, generally
>an amount that averages between 50 pesos ($1) and 100 pesos. The payment
>buys a certain amount of electricity per day and a meter in each house
>measures the usage and cuts off the power when that day's allotment has
>been used up. Since the companies aren't permitted by Philippine law to
>act as utilities, Shell set up the Renewable Energy Foundation to handle
>the payments.
>

They certainly will not be able to resist acquiring "electricity" -- and
for a poor country -- $1.00 to $2.00 US per week can come from only one
place -- the family diet. Expect malnutrition to shoot up -- especially in
the young.

For my part -- sure -- electrical power to encourage greater productivity
is OK -- on a small industrial basis.

But even then -- watch out. If the utility ends up eliminating jobs -- that
is an electric motor powering a chopping device rather than a man with a
machete -- you introduce deficit to the local economy.

As for having lights rather than candles -- most will do without either --
just go to bed early and wake earlier.

Taking your coconut example. They have a set amount of coconuts at any one
time being processed by themselves. Start changing parameters to add
"luxuries" and the system quickly collapses.

They have no economic social safety net. As in some one going there --
mechanizing the process -- throwing 90% of the workers out -- how do they
then feed their families??

The other example where "mechanics" can be well applied is in increasing
crop production -- such as irrigation. But is that really required??

The lower end of 3rd world populations is in a terrible trap these days
with globalization breathing down their backs.

We would be well advised to turn such areas into "parks" where no changes
are allowed. Nothing "modern" can help them. They never will be able to
compete -- to late to get into the game -- the niches are all taken.

For example -- if you established a state of the art sugar factory there to
give them work -- you would be then taking jobs away from India villagers.

A certain percentage of this world's population has no choice but to exist
at subsistence level -- and people at this level can never afford modern
"luxuries"

However -- once presented to them -- they seldom have the strength to
resist them. Results are not good.

In you $1.00 to $2.00 example -- who pays and maintains the devices using
that power?? And where do you expect the villagers to gain that extra
income from??

Just that "meter" will probably cost more than the total rice consumed by
one family in one year.

And last of all -- what makes anyone think that this is a more economic
introduction than simply buying a Chinese diesel with a genset?? Capital
investment being such a problem for poor villages to pay off.

Peter Singfield / Belize

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From ericbj at club-internet.fr Sat Jun 16 17:17:09 2001
From: ericbj at club-internet.fr (Eric Bruce Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconuts Power A Filipino Village
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010616093016.009b6560@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <3B2BCFD9.7288833@club-internet.fr>

Peter Singfield a écrit:

> Taking your coconut example. They have a set amount of coconuts at any one
> time being processed by themselves. Start changing parameters to add
> "luxuries" and the system quickly collapses.
>
> They have no economic social safety net. As in some one going there --
> mechanizing the process -- throwing 90% of the workers out -- how do they
> then feed their families??

The safety net in such rural communities is the community itself, which is one
reason for reinforcing the community, which this project appears, potentially,
to do. Only the results, when known, can tell us whether or not this is so.

> The other example where "mechanics" can be well applied is in increasing
> crop production -- such as irrigation. But is that really required??

Not, in my experience, in the growing of coconut palms.

> The lower end of 3rd world populations is in a terrible trap these days
> with globalization breathing down their backs.

True. So it is refreshing to see a project that potentially offers some degree
of escape from that trap, without turning people into urban drifters. It is
an example of a capital investment that reinforces the self-reliance of a
local community, socially, revenue-wise, and consumer-wise with respect to
fossil fuels.

> We would be well advised to turn such areas into "parks" where no changes
> are allowed. Nothing "modern" can help them. They never will be able to
> compete -- to late to get into the game -- the niches are all taken.

Zoological parks with yourself as the keeper? Peter, we know that you are an
inveterate pessimist, and you have recently told us that you are
anti-democratic, not to mention that you are planning to turn hunter-gatherer
whenever you finally manage to tear yourself away from the umbilical cord of
your modem connection. However, supposing we decided to put you in a park, not
necessarily one of your own choosing, how would you feel?

> A certain percentage of this world's population has no choice but to exist
> at subsistence level -- and people at this level can never afford modern
> "luxuries"

Never ... as long as their raw materials are "ripped off" by the developed
world, and their embryonic markets destroyed by being forced open to world
trade. Countries that have been strong enough to maintain a degree of
protection of their markets, such as India and China, have succeeded in
maintaining a degree of "self-determination".

> However -- once presented to them -- they seldom have the strength to
> resist them. Results are not good.

You might be unable to resist French patisserie, and the results on your health
might not be good. However, we shall not deny you the pleasure.

 

 

 

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From LINVENT at aol.com Sat Jun 16 20:19:45 2001
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconuts Power A Filipino Village
Message-ID: <aa.16eda44e.285d5104@aol.com>

Dear listers (tilting to one side?),
Bravo to the response to Peter. We would certainly be suffocating in the
smoke of our fires in the caves we would still be living in if we were all
pessimists. Pandora's box of evils has only one bright light left after
opened, Hope which springs eternal in our breast.
I congratulate all for the success of linking with Shell renewables,
putting together such a brave program and hoping to help the raising of the
natives to a higher level. Now we should all pitch in and provide them a
community satellite dish and tv so they can learn our ways and join the first
world rat race. If they want to, they can also learn how to read, write, get
a degree and move out of the village into the rest of the world. Perhaps some
have through other manners.
My mixed metaphor above is because I like to for the literary value it
may spice up.

Sincerely,
Leland T. Taylor
President
Thermogenics Inc.
7100-2nd St. NW, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87107
phone 505-344-4846 fax 505-344-6090
Attached files are zipped and can be decompressed with <A
HREF="http://www.aladdinsys.com/expander/">www.aladdinsys.com/expander/ </A>

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From tombreed at home.com Sun Jun 17 10:00:31 2001
From: tombreed at home.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NEW Website for www.woodgas.com
Message-ID: <017701c0f734$84b52d00$18e5b618@lakwod3.co.home.com>

 

Dear All:

I have combined my two previous websites into the new <A
href="http://www.WOODGAS.COM">WWW.WOODGAS.COM.  Since all of you are
involved, please find your particular areas and send me comments for further
improvements. 

Robb:  On your site, please change my 1998 website to the current one
above. Also, I need a smaller logo for the link to CPC.  There is too much
open space right and left...

I'll be gone (Costa Rica) from June 19 - July 5.  Eager to get your
comments when I return. 

It was a pleasure working with FRONT PAGE -2000 after fighting for a month
with FRONT PAGE - '98 in '98.  I'll try to do a better job maintaining the
site now.  Hope to get credit card ordering for the books.  Any
suggestions on this?

TOM REED


Dr. Thomas Reed 
The Biomass Energy Foundation 1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401303
278 0558; <A
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From bernhard.kronberger at jrc.it Mon Jun 18 04:21:22 2001
From: bernhard.kronberger at jrc.it (Bernhard Kronberger)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: biomass gasification for hydrogen production storage of the feedstock
In-Reply-To: <E1780666C205D211B6740008C728DBFE9F4FF2@sp0016.epz.nl>
Message-ID: <NEBBLPBDHMCMCMNLCEMJCEPKCDAA.bernhard.kronberger@jrc.it>

Hi all!

I know that my question sounds a bit crazy but for a certain secenario we
are assuming the gasification of about 1000 tons (wet, 45% moisture content)
biomass (forestry waste, if possible otherwide energy crops) per day.
Does anybody of you have an idea how this could be stored? In order to
elminte problems of delivery I would assume to store about 3 times this
volume. What type of storage could be used, what could this cost (per ton??)
and what would be the footprint of such a store?

Thanks,
Bernhard

 

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From joacim at ymex.net Mon Jun 18 07:48:01 2001
From: joacim at ymex.net (Joacim Persson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: urbanisation vs domestic production
In-Reply-To: <9c.f35d4c8.2854fe48@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10106180522011.964-100000@localhost>

On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 LINVENT@aol.com wrote:

> Absorption of solar energy by plants is a definite way to reduce surface
> temperature. Cities reflect a great deal of heat back into the atmosphere.
> Reducing man's construction of population densities is certainly one way to
> reduce atmospheric heating.

Reducing the number of people rather. The ground area of a city must be
significantly smaller than if the inhabitants lived in cottages.

Reducing the world population, urban in particular, would reduce energy and
environmental impact anyway, regardeless of climatological theories.

If we drive urbanisation to it's absurd limit, we would end up with the
worlds entire population living in one enormous city. Then we have an
interesting logistic problem. If the planet's whole surface, land and sea,
is used for feeding this multi-billion city, the average transport distance
for supplies will be half-way across the globe, i.e. one fourth of the
circumference or 10000 km, on /average/.

If we drive the opposite, de-urbanisation or ruralisation, to it's limit,
i.e. distribute the population evenly across the face of earth, all living
on domestic production, the `logistic problem' then can be solved by
taking a walk.

If we view the logistic of a more normal city than the giga-city above, a
city fed by a circular flat area around it, we can use euclidian geometry
instead of spherical, and the average transport length is 1/sqrt(2), ~0.7,
of the radius of the area that supply the city with resources. So even in a
small scale it makes more sense to live on domestic production.

But we all knew that. It follows from the second law that it takes
resources to concentrate resources.

In the Gigapol above, it would be much easier to have a chat with a random
individual in the population than if the population is distributed evenly.
Urbanisation makes the world information efficient but energy inefficient.
Ruralisation is energy efficient but (traditionally) information
inefficient.

The growth of the Internet changes that though. It is significantly less
energy efficient to transport information in a lump of fat attached to a
complicated 80kg biochemical factory, riding in a 2 ton machine at 100km/h,
rather than transporting information in the form of weightless photons at
one billion km/h. Imagine if we would have to visit eachother to discuss
gasification, day after day, and travel all the way home in the evening to
experiment. We would need a lot of Concordes.

Joacim
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From ericbj at club-internet.fr Tue Jun 19 20:46:48 2001
From: ericbj at club-internet.fr (Eric Bruce Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Global warming
In-Reply-To: <9c.f35d4c8.2854fe48@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B2FF58D.E724FC40@club-internet.fr>

LINVENT@aol.com a écrit:

> Two recent articles appearing in Sciences, Spring 2001, a publication of
> the New York Academy of Sciences cast serious doubts upon the greenhouse gas
> theory and the Kyoto Accords. ... Greenhouse gases have nothing to do with the
> process.

Would love to read that article : did not find any copy attached to your
mail.

> There is a group of thinkers who believe that the ice ages are caused
> from increased CO2 accumulation and cooling of the earth by convection of
> heat into the upper atmosphere. They operate under the nom de plume of "The
> Coming Ice Age" and choose to see remineralizing the earth to promote plant
> growth as the manner of reducing the CO2 content.

Ah, yes. The Hamaker-Weaver hypothesis. Still going strong? Very
interesting: I read their book "The Survival of Civilisation" back
in '86. Some of the trends they spoke of do seem to be occurring.
Trouble is, they predicted the onset of the Ice Age for some years ago.
(See also "The End" by Larry Ephron, "Ice or Fire?" by Halacy, and,
if that is not sufficient, try "Pole Shift" by John White;
all published in the late 70's and 80's)

> This relates to gasification in a very strong way. if biomass production
> is increased dramatically per unit area, then smaller areas are needed to
> produce for a given biomass process, transportation is reduced as a major
> cost of a biomass system. I have doubled or tripled production of biomass on
> a per unit basis through remineralization.

This is very interesting. At the time of reading Hamaker's ideas, I
knew someone who, although he had discarded the climatic part of the
theory, was a fervent addict of rock dust, thanks to the miracles it
was working in his vegetable garden in Oxford. Moreover, at this
same time, when reorganizing from top to bottom an organic farm/cancer
centre office, I came upon a paper, published in 1943 by the Swiss
Department of Agriculture, in French translated from the German,
that substantiated Hamaker's claims to the incredible fertilizing
effects of glacial melt-waters. They have some glaciers there in
Switzerland. I kick myself that I never kept a copy of the document.

If, thanks to remineralisation, we can grow trees here in Europe that
are several hundred feet tall and with girths to match, as appears
to have been the case at the commencement of the present inter-glacial
period, a mere ten thousand years ago, while we may have to tighten
our belts, the future is perhaps not so dark.

Now, hands up those that believe the nuclear industry does not
contribute to the greenhouse effect.

Well, you are wrong. (unless of course you maintain, as per the above,
that "greenhouse gases" do not produce a greenhouse effect)

The nuclear industry is itself extremely energy hungry.

If you take into account the whole nuclear processing chain, including
mining, refining, transport, construction, treatment of waste and
stocking of waste, then, according to figures released by the
OKO-Institute of Germany, nuclear power generation produces the
equivalent of 35 grammes of CO2 per kWh of electricity. (figures for
methane and nitrogen oxides are included as CO2-equivalents)

Looks like we really must get back to wood-gas!

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From tbollman at twlakes.net Wed Jun 20 16:56:07 2001
From: tbollman at twlakes.net (Tim Bollman)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconut power
Message-ID: <3B311A0B.00000B.43401@default>

 

 

 

<TD id=INCREDITEXTREGION width="100%" style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; PADDING-LEFT: 7px; PADDING-RIGHT: 7px"
>

<TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 id=INCREDIMAINTABLE
width="95%">


<TD id=INCREDITEXTREGION
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; PADDING-LEFT: 7px; PADDING-RIGHT: 7px"
width="100%">
My apologies to <A
href="mailto:Linvent@AOL.com">Linvent@AOL.com, whom I sent this
to privately by mistake.

<snip>
Dear listers (tilting to one side?), Bravo to the response to
Peter. We would certainly be suffocating in the smoke of our
fires in the caves we would still be living in if we were all
pessimists.
<end snip>
Pessimisim also tends to let one look and reconsider, prior
to leaping off a cliff, or out of the frying pan and into the fire,
as it were.
<snip from the original post> 
Community Power had already been talking to Shell
Renewables, a divisionof the multinational energy
company, about doing a project together;they decided to
start in Alaminos. First, the Colorado company surveyedthe
villagers on their willingness and ability to pay for
electricity,and set rates based on the amount they
spent previously on kerosene,batteries and candles. Then
in December 1999 Shell Renewables installeda 3.5
kilowatt solar system to deliver electricity to around 100
houses.The idea was to help the villagers get used to
the idea of havingelectricity in their houses and paying for it
until the Small ModularBiopower system was up and
running. Shell Renewables' SunStation alsohas a
natural-gas component that kicks in between 6 p.m. and 7 p.m.
whendemand in Alaminos peaks.<end snip>
Sorry all, but this just looks like a way to hook a
heretofore, unreachable consumer on centrally controlled and
regulated electricity. These villagers had already discovered, and
were making use of other alternatives prior to this grand
philathropic gesture.
Now, rather than buying their batteries and lamp oil from the
local merchant, they work for and return profit to
SHELL OIL COMPANY. How does this benefit anyone
BUT shell oil?
The village already had the natural resource and a use for
the generation ability. The original article seemed to imply that
Community Power Corp. was a government funded type of philanthropic
organisation, whose goal was to ease lifes' burdens on these
villagers. If that's true, how does making them be-holden to Shell
Oil for their electricity production make them better off?
Those of you that wish to argue that "the village couldn't
afford it without Shell", need to re-read the part of the original
article about the interm solar system, how was it paid for? 
Why couldn't it be expanded and used exclusively?
The simple answer is; "That it makes the villagers
independant of the electrical provider". How can you charge
some one 1 to 2 dollars a day for a virually free and infinitely
renewable source of power?
100 homes times 2 dollars a day times 365 days a year =
$73,000/year profit, with a free energy source (coconut husks). For
that kinda cash, I'de go install and babysit several village power
plants myself.
<snip>
Pandora's box of evils has only one bright light left after
opened, Hope which springs eternal in our breast. <end
snip>
Here's hoping the poor suckers don't fall
for it.....reminds me of the "Company Towns" of the 30s' 40s' and
50s'.
<snip>
I congratulate all for the success of linking with Shell
renewables, putting together such a brave program and hoping to
help the raising of the natives to a higher level. Now we should
all pitch in and provide them a community satellite dish and tv
so they can learn our ways and join the first world rat race.

<end snip>
Now there's an idea...wonder how much the fools would pay me
to come out there and administer that program.
On second thought forget it, I'm almost off that damn
perpetual rat-race, and I'll be damned if I'll return
willingly.
Sincerely,
Tim Bollman , thru the smoke from the fire in my cave in the
forests of Tennessee

 

 








 

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From ericbj at club-internet.fr Wed Jun 20 17:47:28 2001
From: ericbj at club-internet.fr (Eric Bruce Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:25 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Global warming
In-Reply-To: <c0.1602bc0f.28620e4e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3B311D16.C1B74BB9@club-internet.fr>

LINVENT@aol.com a écrit:

> Dear all,
> I did not attach the article to the e-mail. I feel that the publication
> "Sciences" is so worthy of having it's readership increased that if one wants
> to read the articles, either buy the magazine or get it through a library or
> other source.

Thank you for the interesting response. However with regard to the above
remark, I am sorry to have to advise you that

> The Sciences will cease publication
> with the Spring 2001 issue.
>
http://www.nyas.org/

Also, the library in town is something of a joke. It has no periodicals in
French, let alone in English.

 

 

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From ericbj at club-internet.fr Wed Jun 20 19:34:44 2001
From: ericbj at club-internet.fr (Eric Bruce Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconut power
In-Reply-To: <3B311A0B.00000B.43401@default>
Message-ID: <3B313570.8D69A675@club-internet.fr>

Tim Bollman a écrit:

> Now, rather than buying their batteries and lamp oil from the local merchant, they work for and return profit to SHELL
> OIL COMPANY. How does this benefit anyone BUT shell oil?
>
If they decide to buy it, presumably they perceive a benefit. The same
way you do, one hopes, when you buy something.

My objective is not to promote Shell Oil, least of all after what they
have done in Nigeria. (And if you wish to learn a bit about the
extra-curricular activities of another oil major, go to my site at
http://www.rainbowends.org . Had I included the Sudan, there would have
been a lot more to say about them)

> How can you charge
> some one 1 to 2 dollars a day for a virually free and infinitely renewable source of power?
> 100 homes times 2 dollars a day times 365 days a year = $73,000/year profit
>
The energy is free, but the capital costs are not. Also you seem to be
making an elementary error in confusing turnover and profit. Tell us
the capital costs and rate of depreciation (not many pieces of equipment
last forever), and one can tell you the profit.

> For that kinda cash, I'de go install and babysit several village power plants myself.
>
Do it! That way one can cut out Shell Oil.

> Here's hoping the poor suckers don't fall for it...
>
And here's hoping you have not fallen for it either. Cut off from
electricity, one presumes, and the other products of the wicked,
industrial consumer age, such as cars, public transport, computers, the
internet, and fully emancipated from the insidious influences of
advertising ... Come, come. Why do you wish to impose on others
conditions you will not accept for yourself. Romantic escapism of a
vicarious nature?

I do not purport to be able to speak on behalf of these people. But I
lived for a number of years in the tropics in remote areas without
electricity, running water, vehicular roads, Europeans and other such
superfluities, spending much of my time walking, needless to say, from
village to village. Good, healthy outdoor life. Maybe gives one some
sort of feeling for the people and their society. Its advantages and
disadvantages. We have a lot to learn from them.

Preserving rural communities calls for a dynamic interactive approach.
You cannot just put a fence round them. If people do not find what they
are looking for in their existing community, they will move to the
towns, which in many cases may prove an unsatisfactory solution both for
them and for society as a whole.

> Now there's an idea...wonder how much the fools would pay me to come out there and administer that program.
>
> On second thought forget it, I'm almost off that damn perpetual rat-race, and I'll be damned if I'll return willingly.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Tim Bollman , thru the smoke from the fire in my cave in the forests of Tennessee
>
Watch out for the dust and condensation in the computer!

 

 

 

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From snkm at btl.net Wed Jun 20 20:56:08 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconut power
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010620185247.00941a60@wgs1.btl.net>

 

To all --

I find this responses extremely naive. Obviously so out of touch with
reality. Pessimism -- you mean anything that does not agree with your dreams?

I see a hopeless task in even starting to educate the honored members of
this list regarding 3rd world subsistence economies.

But taking just one example from the bright eyed ravings:

(Difficult to do -- as in this case the posting was made in full bloatware)

"We would certainly be suffocating in the smoke of our fires in the caves
we would still be living in if we were all pessimists."

The far greater percentage of human life on this planet presently lives
either at that stage of human development -- or worse.

Any fool with a calculate can quickly pound out the math on this -- if we
get the entire planet to live "modern" -- we do not have the resources to
do this.

"and set rates based on the amount they spent previously on kerosene,
batteries and candles."

Unless I am extremely mistaken -- you can expect big trouble from the
candle makers, the kerosene and batteries vendors.

And further -- only the rich (relatively speaking) buy batteries. All
others use candles. And plenty sleep when the sun sets.

Same with kerosene -- most will use wood for cooking and candles, not
kerosene lamps.

So I would say this will kill the candle industry -- which has probably
exited there for a couple of thousand years. People once supporting
themselves in the candle industry will now have no occupation -- will go
hungry.

Look -- I just finished communicating with an American Malaria worker in
Ethiopia. She is in a state of shock because a man was murdered at her
fence -- in front of her eyes.

Here is what happened. She had just rented this luxurious (for there)
"compound" and a "nice" man had asked her for the gras clipping when the
"help" mowed the lawn. Un known to her another family had been raising
rabbits from these same clippings -- on a side deal with the gardener --
for years.

when he lost the ability to support his family in this manner he went amuck
and killed the man that had stole his lively hood from him.

Pessimism -- no -- you have it all wrong. I am against people interfering
in other peoples lives with no consideration of what is right and what is
wrong simply because the people forcing cultural change do not understand
anything about how 3rd world works.

A few of you were quick to demonstrate this fact to me. A lot more -- have
intelligently stayed out of it -- possibly because they to have had some
"real" experience in 3rd world.

Another example -- a Chinese acquaintance of mine here in Belize -- newly
arrived. When I asked how he his family could ever have afforded such a
trip for their son -- he explained that his grandfather had got permission
to build a public toilet in their village many years ago. Travelers use it
regularly. Yet they never charge. He and his family profited greatly from
selling the sewage.

You personally might find all this despicable. But let me remind you --
they have no problems with "wastes" in 3rd world. Everything is used and
re-used.

There are no wastes! Here they use both coconut husk and shell for cook
fires -- that is among the poor. True -- Belize is modernizing fast -- and
if the world economy busts -- people will actually starve here now -- which
is unusual -- as from time beginning -- they always were self sustaining.

But move 65 miles to the west of where I am typing -- the Peten of
Guatemala -- and over 800,000 Maya are living in traditions, stone-age,
manner.

This may not suit you as a good way to live. But they just lately paid a
blood price of over 200,000 people slaughtered not to change!

And when all you bright eyes bust up the global economy -- and all the
machines stop -- you starve -- they keep on living.

And if before that occurs -- your great "civilizations" degenerate to all
out nuclear warfare -- I'd still rather be here than where you guys are now.

You see -- it is not so simple as you believe -- never is.

I'll be surprised if that gasifier does not end up like that battle over
the lawn clippings.

You all have to learn to live -- and let live.

Now I suppose I'll be condemned as a pessimist because I suggest the global
economy is melting down?? Hey -- where have you been? It is melting down!

As I said at the beginning -- your definition of pessimism is anyone not
agreeing with your dreams!

Hey guys -- if "God" made a rule -- that everyone had to follow -- no
exceptions -- that there will be no more deficit spending -- in any amount
-- starting right now -- you would be all happy to have a cave with a fire
in front --

Your civilization works only as long as you use a vastly disproportionate
amount of the global resources -- using them up in a veritable blink of the
eye -- and fabricating wealth to pay for it all.

I personally believe people living at subsistence levels -- using very
little resources -- and having no "credit" are the best of the human race.

Do you call that pessimism?? I call it wonderful ---

We should all sit back and wait one hundred more years to see where this
brave new world of your is leading us to -- before committing to future of
the entire human race to your "dreams". I mean -- do not be in such a rush
to change/replace systems of human existence that have been working for
countless thousands of years.

There is no free ride in this world of ours -- and the sooner you moderns
realize this -- the better chance the human race has of surviving.

Peter singfield -- Belize

At 03:47 PM 6/20/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>>>>
> width="95%">
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; PADDING-LEFT: 7px;
PADDING-RIGHT: 7px" width="100%"> My apologies to
Linvent@AOL.com, whom I sent this to privately by mistake.
<snip>

Dear listers (tilting to one side?),
Bravo to the response to Peter. We would certainly be
suffocating in the
smoke of our fires in the caves we would still be living in if
we were all
pessimists.

<end snip>

Pessimisim also tends to let one look and reconsider, prior to
leaping off a cliff, or out of the frying pan and into the fire,
as it were.

<snip from the original post>

Community Power had already been talking to Shell Renewables,
a division
of the multinational energy company, about doing a project
together;
they decided to start in Alaminos. First, the Colorado company
surveyed
the villagers on their willingness and ability to pay for
electricity,
and set rates based on the amount they spent previously on
kerosene,
batteries and candles. Then in December 1999 Shell Renewables
installed
a 3.5 kilowatt solar system to deliver electricity to around
100 houses.
The idea was to help the villagers get used to the idea of having
electricity in their houses and paying for it until the Small
Modular
Biopower system was up and running. Shell Renewables'
SunStation also
has a natural-gas component that kicks in between 6 p.m. and 7
p.m. when
demand in Alaminos peaks.

<end snip>

Sorry all, but this just looks like a way to hook a
heretofore, unreachable consumer on centrally controlled and
regulated electricity. These villagers had already discovered, and
were making use of other alternatives prior to this grand
philathropic gesture.

Now, rather than buying their batteries and lamp oil from the
local merchant, they work for and return profit to SHELL OIL
COMPANY. How does this benefit anyone BUT shell oil?

The village already had the natural resource and a use for the
generation ability. The original article seemed to imply that
Community Power Corp. was a government funded type of philanthropic
organisation, whose goal was to ease lifes' burdens on these
villagers. If that's true, how does making them be-holden to Shell
Oil for their electricity production make them better off?

Those of you that wish to argue that "the village couldn't
afford it without Shell", need to re-read the part of the original
article about the interm solar system, how was it paid for?
Why couldn't it be expanded and used exclusively?

The simple answer is; "That it makes the villagers independant
of the electrical provider". How can you charge some one 1 to
2 dollars a day for a virually free and infinitely renewable
source of power?

100 homes times 2 dollars a day times 365 days a year =
$73,000/year profit, with a free energy source (coconut husks). For
that kinda cash, I'de go install and babysit several village power
plants myself.

<snip>

Pandora's box of evils has only one bright light left after
opened, Hope which springs eternal in our breast.
<end snip>

Here's hoping the poor suckers don't fall for it.....reminds
me of the "Company Towns" of the 30s' 40s' and 50s'.

<snip>

I congratulate all for the success of linking with Shell
renewables,
putting together such a brave program and hoping to help the
raising of the
natives to a higher level. Now we should all pitch in and
provide them a
community satellite dish and tv so they can learn our ways and
join the first
world rat race.

<end snip>

Now there's an idea...wonder how much the fools would pay me
to come out there and administer that program.

On second thought forget it, I'm almost off that damn
perpetual rat-race, and I'll be damned if I'll return
willingly.

Sincerely,

Tim Bollman , thru the smoke from the fire in my cave in the
forests of Tennessee
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From ericbj at club-internet.fr Wed Jun 20 21:38:39 2001
From: ericbj at club-internet.fr (Eric Bruce Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconut power
In-Reply-To: <3B311A0B.00000B.43401@default>
Message-ID: <3B31536C.C1E7BCBC@club-internet.fr>

Tim Bollman a écrit:

> How can you charge
> some one 1 to 2 dollars a day for a virually free and infinitely renewable source of power?
> 100 homes times 2 dollars a day times 365 days a year = $73,000/year profit

The article states:-

"Each WEEK the villagers pay in advance for their electricity, generally
an amount that averages between 50 pesos ($1) and 100 pesos."

Please amend your calculations accordingly.

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From snkm at btl.net Thu Jun 21 09:41:29 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: ELECTRICITY
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010621073804.0094fa10@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Gas Listers --

I am cross posting this message from our tiny Belize culture mail list. The
man posting this message is not a mechanically inclined person -- rather a
simply retired person that once lived in Belize (40 years) and now lives in
Florida.

I am posting this because it is such a clear example of how electrical
energy effects social endeavors. If you have a village ion the middle of no
where that has exited since time began without electrical power -- what
makes every one feel like they are heros for bring electricity to them?

The modern world is a consumer society -- that is growth depends on
consuming more resources -- a continuous rate increase. Anyone can work out
that eventually -- there will be no resources left -- and such a society
must ultimately collapse.

I see Greenspan this morning is shouting that people have to "spend" more
so the world can avoid a recession. And that the US deficit spending
increased by a factor of ten for last month.

And anyone that does not agree with this style of human behavior is a
pessimist?? Interesting --

Anyway -- below is a fine example of modern society dependent on
"ELECTRICITY" -- imagine the much harsher effects of introducing this to
primitive societies.

Peter -- Belize

This message sent to the Bz-Culture Mailing List from Belize Trust
<***********@justice.com>:

ELECTRICITY

When you base your economy on the availability of electricity you are
postponing big trouble it seems like?

True you cannot really do anything commercially or industrially without
electricity. But consolidating your electrical supply to a few big players
sure seems the wrong way to go.

Watching what is normally a boring Congressional debate t.v. channel last
night. The Congressman from San Diego County and city, in Southern
California was almost in tears, he was so overwrought with emotion.
Congress kicked out his bill on a technicality. No sympathy there for any
intervention. Wanted his place declared a disaster area.

Electrical costs and brownouts and blackouts are killing his County small
businesses. He says about 20 % of small business in San Diego have gone
belly up in bankruptcies. That by Christmas fully 65 % of all the small
businesses in San Diego will have closed up shop and filed for bankruptcy.

Apparently electrical bills have skyrocketed some 350 % this year. A
small travel agency for instance paying $1400 a month store rent and a $300
electrical bill, now has to pay about a $1100 electrical bill. The margin
of income, or net profit for salaries suddenly disappears in small
businesses. If you are computerized in any way and most are today. I have
a Spanish supermarket around the corner here, is constantly closing it's
doors during the day, cause the electricity goes off. Don't know why?
Mine does not a few blocks away. But they cannot run the lights, freezers
or cash machines to pay for things. Fixed income people will have to do
without airconditioning, I guess. Should have built with 10 ft ceilings in
the first place.

Anyway, San Diego is going to go broke and much of the rest of the rest
of California. I suspect there will be a population flight to electricity
rich and economic states and a deep recession in California soon, by next
year. Real Estate prices should plummet with places for sale forcing down
prices.

In all this, I simply cannot understand why they do not buy a 5 kw
generator, get an electrician to stick in a double throw switch and supply
their own electricity as a small business?

-----------------------------------------------

Which brings me to a windmill project I am still working on in my head.
Have a high torque windmill will presumably give me 3 KW of output at 48 %
efficiency. It turns at 15 to 90 rpm. Would an automatic transmission
from a small car, enable me to connect the shaft from the windmill to a 115
v. 60 cycle generator saved from a scrap gasoline junkyard generator set
and give me direct torque to the generator from the windmill shaft, via the
automatic transmission and maintain a constant or fairly constant 60 cycle
electricity? Can I keep the generator output constant enough, without
fluctuations in brightness from load lights?

Did this with a d.c. bicycle generator on Caye Caulker 40 years ago. The
lights went up and down in brightness. Didn't work. The d.c. produced
needed a battery rectifier. Trying to avoid that with a windmill produced
alternating current. Can it work with a transmission?

**************************
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From CAVM at aol.com Thu Jun 21 09:59:24 2001
From: CAVM at aol.com (CAVM@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: ELECTRICITY
Message-ID: <e0.166990ec.28635751@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/21/2001 8:41:39 AM Central Daylight Time, snkm@btl.net
writes:

<< I am posting this because it is such a clear example of how electrical
energy effects social endeavors. If you have a village ion the middle of no
where that has exited since time began without electrical power -- what
makes every one feel like they are heros for bring electricity to them?

The modern world is a consumer society -- that is growth depends on
consuming more resources -- a continuous rate increase. Anyone can work out
that eventually -- there will be no resources left -- and such a society
must ultimately collapse.
>>

Pete, I guess we are going to end up discussing the politics of power more
than the science of it. Well, it seems to me that if we generate electical
power for a group, a company, or a village who wants it, we have done
something. If they don't want it, we have done nothing or maybe worse.

If they want it and can not afford it we go back to the drawing board and try
to make it more affordable.

I am working with a company in Southern California who has a multimillion
dollar electric bill annually thanks to the new price increases. I can
supply about $9,000,000 worth of power to them to offset their bill
substantially by using their own biomass waste. This will effectively cut
their power bill to 1/3 of current rates. Well, they are a big company owned
by very wealthy people who will now get more wealthy. So what? The hundreds
of people who work for them will have secure jobs where otherwise it was in
doubt.

I will produce power for a large farm in Mexico out of locally available
biomass and let them increase their efficiency and expand their value added
opportunities. These guys are already rich by any standard but they employ
hundreds of low skilled workers who will be more secure in their employment
with the power project.

If they don't want it, I won't build it. If they can't afford it, I will try
to make it cheaper, but not if they don't want it.

We have to continously research alternative power techniques to keep the cost
low and to utilize biomass we have no experience with, so we need to learn
more. Some of this knowledge you may have or others may have it. We learn
constantly.

Cornelius A. Van Milligen
Kentucky Enrichment Inc
byproduct processors

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From LINVENT at aol.com Thu Jun 21 10:58:10 2001
From: LINVENT at aol.com (LINVENT@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconut power
Message-ID: <11.15fdd6fe.286364db@aol.com>

Furthermore,
There is no accounting of capital cost on the solar system, distribution
cost(who wired the village? is it to code?), risk cost, what happens when the
typhoons blow the system down? What happens when the villagers stop buying
power? Perhaps one of the witch doctors says that power sucked from the sun
is in defiance of the gods and they are going to incur the wrath of the gods
for this?
Not even the simplest thing is simple anymore.
I doubt if this is going to make the consolidated financial statement of
Shell Co. even as a footnote. If they took a tax deduction for it, they
should have as a charitable contribution.
If gasification list members would like to have the Sciences articles
sent to them, let me know and I will forward it in a scanned jpeg format.

Sincerely,
Leland T. Taylor
President
Thermogenics Inc.
7100-2nd St. NW, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87107
phone 505-344-4846 fax 505-344-6090
Attached files are zipped and can be decompressed with <A
HREF="http://www.aladdinsys.com/expander/">www.aladdinsys.com/expander/ </A>

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From calsch at montana.com Thu Jun 21 11:34:52 2001
From: calsch at montana.com (Cal Schindel)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Constant output controller
Message-ID: <3B3205F8.A02DD2F7@montana.com>

Quick answer to some of Peter's posts. Even primitives will appreciate
having some extra energy at their disposal if it will give them some
relief from constant drudgery. Pumping water alone is reason enough for
having electricity. Communications possibilities a second. Even the
Pennsylvania Amish are installing telephones. Having a energy source
means having time to stop and think and plan.

Constant voltage, constant frequency controller: I have no personal
experience with this unit, and it ain't cheap:

<http://www.aurasystems.com>

Cal

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From snkm at btl.net Thu Jun 21 13:16:39 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Applying to the proper market
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010621104802.00939230@wgs1.btl.net>

At 09:34 AM 6/21/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Quick answer to some of Peter's posts. Even primitives will appreciate
>having some extra energy at their disposal if it will give them some
>relief from constant drudgery. Pumping water alone is reason enough for
>having electricity. Communications possibilities a second. Even the
>Pennsylvania Amish are installing telephones. Having a energy source
>means having time to stop and think and plan.
>

Ok folks -- at present I am involved in "selling" biomass power plant to
some Mennonites. They presently are using 140 kw -- and are maxing out --
diesel generated -- to run their rice "factory" -- with all those rice
husks just piling up. This here in the "bush" of Belize. So please do not
get me wrong.

On the other hand and I was involved -- 2.5 years ago -- in trying to
introduce "electricity" to the Maya of the Peten. They having just fallen
into a windfall -- royalties from oil wells in their domain.

My first suggestion was a corn grinding set-up using the "standard"
gasifier supplementing a diesel set-up.

As I was explaining what a great labor saver this would be they brought up
a few points.

At present all corn is ground by their women. In the most primitive of
manners -- that is stone on stone.

This occupies a fair amount of any woman's time in their culture.

What are the woman to do with the "free" time they have once the corn
grinder is set up??

I know -- you moderns are dedicated to easing life's burden on your woman
-- keeping them high on the pedestal. So you might just not understand the
above question.

Now -- on to basic electrical power.

Mexico came up with an excellent plan here about fifteen years back. Very
high tech for the time. A single 48 watt solar panel charging a single deep
cycling battery. This was then used to power 6 watt high efficiency -- 12
volts -- fluorescent lights -- plus radio -- if village rich enough to
afford. "Capital" cost at that time was under $50 per unit.

One such set up was used for a number of houses.

Hey -- let us not blind side ourselves -- OK??

I am beginning to think that members of this list suffer from stone age
mentality -- even though they live in modern convenience.

Sure there are millions (literally) of applications for biomass energy in
3rd world. But not along the coconut farm idea.

The proper way to gauge this "market" is by bringing in a device that can
replace their present energy requirements at much greater economies.

But in point of fact -- we have some major difficulties achieving this
goal. That being extreme costs of the equipment -- unreliable service --
and labor intensity.

At least when compared to diesel power.

I see ways to beat this -- and you have all heard me mention these numerous
times.

Mass production of a state of the art device -- for the same price or less
than that diesel gen set -- just as reliable -- and just as labor intensive.

All this "political" stuff is a smoke screen covering the simple fact that
moderns have no "direction" when it comes to applying such technology
properly. It may also simply be that mental levels of intelligence are
severely dulled due to a fat life style.

There is no question the above can be accomplished -- we are seeing it in
process with fuel cells in cars.

My belief is that a kind of brain death is occurring when it comes to
innovation in this field of human endeavor.

We are stuck with obsolete ideas -- one track thought processes -- and no
where to go except oblivion.

I would guess that what we need is a major social upheaval -- such as
another world war -- to get bureaucratic style thinking behind us and get
on with the job of getting things done -- rather than killing the
messengers that point out everything is quite stagnated.

>Constant voltage, constant frequency controller: I have no personal
>experience with this unit, and it ain't cheap:
>
><http://www.aurasystems.com>
>
>Cal

As for continuous voltage regulating devices -- the power supply in this
computer I am using is of 300 watts capacity. Made in China -- bet you it
costs less than $5.00 US.

A little re-arranging -- and any high tech switching voltage power supply
can become a constant voltage, constant frequency -- regulator. Believe me
-- these IBM compatible power supplies are high tech! And a 3000 watt unit
costing maybe $10!!

Fine example of what the problem is these days -- isn't it? Lack of
intuitive innovation -- stagnation with over pricing.

Necessity is the mother of invention. And modern man is far to "fat" to
ever understand necessities.

I received a communication yesterday regarding how to find a supply of 1000
tons per month of old tires. This from India. The use is to fire a cement
kiln and the waste heat for a power plant.

I believe you modern "pay" to be rid of that waste???

Necessity verses "fat"!!!

Why do I feel moderns are a flash in the pan -- nothing more?? That refers
to old flint lock muzzle loading rifles. You put powder in a "pan" under
where the flint strikes a spark. Pull the trigger, flint passes frizen
making a spark which ignites powder -- which is suppose to lead to a
discharging of the main load.

What I see here is a flash in the pan -- but never a discharge! Which means
-- no meat on the table -- go borrow from the rest of the world -- one way
or the other (or just "take") so everyone can stay fat.

The day is soon coming where this form of extravagance will no longer be
able to function simply due to total depletion of the resources required.

Just how many years of deficit spending do you moderns figure on getting
away with??

True -- most of 3rd world is aching to suck nipple to -- but some of us
consider matters a little more in depth.

Your rush to make 3rd world deficit spenders simply means and earlier
ending for all.

I see the UN is going back into the fray in the Baltics. Hey -- one way to
pull your sagging economies out of the doldrums is a little war some where.
Be careful the fire does not get out of control -- OK?

In any case -- hardly effects those Maya -- as long as their women still
grind corn with stones -- that is.

The Mennonites and I -- well -- it will be hard times for sure.

Peter

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>
>

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From snkm at btl.net Thu Jun 21 13:17:46 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: ELECTRICITY
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010621111248.00948100@wgs1.btl.net>

 

>
>If they want it and can not afford it we go back to the drawing board and
try
>to make it more affordable.

That is a fair description of my involvement for the past 3 years. Only I
have yet to find the price that works.

>
>I am working with a company in Southern California who has a multimillion
>dollar electric bill annually thanks to the new price increases. I can
>supply about $9,000,000 worth of power to them to offset their bill
>substantially by using their own biomass waste. This will effectively cut
>their power bill to 1/3 of current rates. Well, they are a big company
owned
>by very wealthy people who will now get more wealthy. So what? The
hundreds
>of people who work for them will have secure jobs where otherwise it was in
>doubt.

Sure -- that works in California -- no problems with this at all. Kind of
along the rice factory the Mennonites have and their power problems. diesel
has increased by 40% here in the past 6 months -- and no end in sight. so
time to look at those rice husks. But read the end of this message -- in
big systems like your describing -- there is a valid alternative.

>
>I will produce power for a large farm in Mexico out of locally available
>biomass and let them increase their efficiency and expand their value added
>opportunities. These guys are already rich by any standard but they employ
>hundreds of low skilled workers who will be more secure in their employment
>with the power project.

Same can be said for those Mennonites. But probably on a smaller scale.

Look -- this is the "right" market -- you get no argument for me there.

>
>If they don't want it, I won't build it. If they can't afford it, I will
try
>to make it cheaper, but not if they don't want it.

Same here ---

>
>We have to continously research alternative power techniques to keep the
cost
>low and to utilize biomass we have no experience with, so we need to learn
>more. Some of this knowledge you may have or others may have it. We learn
>constantly.

Exactly -- but the "fat" factor is a terrible constraint in this endeavor.
I would be only to happy to roll my own systems -- but there is no interest
in "economizing". There is no interest in looking in all directions for
solutions. We are stagnated. The bottom line: it is very hard to do better
than a Wartsila burning crude oil -- or orimulsion -- in the big systems.
And we have nothing in the small systems.

In fact -- one could get very rich quickly now bringing Wartsilas burning
orimulsion on line in California. And it impresses me to no end that they
are not doing this to meet their energy requirements. Impresses me to their
lack of technical ability to grasp their electrical supply problems.

I do see that Florida is looking that over -- believe they will be installing.

Your price -- at 1/3 present costs for power -- is still higher than 9 megs
of Wartsila burning orimulsion can produce it. They would have that up and
running in under 6 months -- at extremely attractive capital costs -- with
their own extremely attractive financing. Plus a fixed price for orimulsion
for 30 years.

Know well the competition. You never know -- even brain dead Californians
may pick up on this.

Peter

>
>Cornelius A. Van Milligen
>Kentucky Enrichment Inc
>byproduct processors
>
>-
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>
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>
>

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From snkm at btl.net Thu Jun 21 13:18:40 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconut power
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010621105728.009446d0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

>Perhaps one of the witch doctors says that power sucked from the sun
>is in defiance of the gods and they are going to incur the wrath of the gods
>for this?

Boy!! Have you got that right!!

Stick with "replacing" existing power facilities with something better. Not
introducing power facilities.

And even then you are stepping on toes --- which will cost big time in
special "concessions" -- usually making any economic benefit disappear like
"magic".

Hard to beat that Chinese diesel -- the single cylinder Lister "knock-off"
for small power plants.

They run those around here with flat belt drives. Shifting from generator
to corn grinder to water pump -- what ever you want.

Price for the engine is less than $1000 US. Total capital costs for a
genset -- less than $1300 US.

Capital here about costs about 18% interest.

A gasifier to replace diesel for that unit will probably cost more in
interest charges than the cost of the diesel (only) to run it.

Peter

At 10:55 AM 6/21/2001 EDT, you wrote:
>Furthermore,
> There is no accounting of capital cost on the solar system, distribution
>cost(who wired the village? is it to code?), risk cost, what happens when
the
>typhoons blow the system down? What happens when the villagers stop buying
>power? Perhaps one of the witch doctors says that power sucked from the sun
>is in defiance of the gods and they are going to incur the wrath of the gods
>for this?
> Not even the simplest thing is simple anymore.
> I doubt if this is going to make the consolidated financial statement of
>Shell Co. even as a footnote. If they took a tax deduction for it, they
>should have as a charitable contribution.
> If gasification list members would like to have the Sciences articles
>sent to them, let me know and I will forward it in a scanned jpeg format.
>
>Sincerely,
>Leland T. Taylor
> President
> Thermogenics Inc.
>7100-2nd St. NW, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87107
>phone 505-344-4846 fax 505-344-6090
>Attached files are zipped and can be decompressed with <A
>HREF="http://www.aladdinsys.com/expander/">www.aladdinsys.com/expander/ </A>
>
>-
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>
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>www.webpan.com/BEF
>
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>-
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>
>

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From gary at privacy.nu Thu Jun 21 13:26:31 2001
From: gary at privacy.nu (gary)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconut power
In-Reply-To: <11.15fdd6fe.286364db@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c0fa76$b9a5a720$310a0341@mdlnd1.tx.home.com>

i have some feelings towards both sides of this issue however i just wanted
to comment on what i thought was a funny statement for a third world
location.

 

> Furthermore,
> There is no accounting of capital cost on the solar system,
distribution
> cost(who wired the village? is it to code?)

is a third world electric system ever to code? and are there even any
inspectors or building codes there to begin with?

i've been in many small villages in the mountains of san luis potosi, mexico
which have only had electricity in the past 5 years (or less in some cases).
people who live in thatch roofed one room huts do not usually install
conduit and nice (expensive) electric boxes when they bring electricity into
their homes. what i have seen in villages nearer the larger towns is usually
a single cable from the electric pole into the center of the hut with a
light socket wired directly and maybe a plug adaptor screwed in for pluging
in a radio.

in other villages far away from "civilization", if the electric grid has
been brought to them they tipically only have the village cheifs hut wired
with electric and telephone. this is available for the village to use (such
as charging a battery to power a radio). one such village i visited made me
wonder if their lifestyle is not better than those of us with access to
"civilization". everyone has their own flashlight to find their way on
mountain paths at night. they live in a low population density so they are
able to gather wild fruit and hunt for their food (supplemented with small
plots of corn). and the people seem uniformly happy and freindly. of course
i know that's not possible for most of the world unless we lose about %95 of
the present population, but we can dream can't we?

gary

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From kenboak at stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk Thu Jun 21 14:11:06 2001
From: kenboak at stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk (Ken Boak)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small scale power generation
Message-ID: <018c01c0fa7d$7fa74ae0$e1b3883e@boakk>

Dear List members,

I have read with interest todays posting's on introducing electricity into
villages/communities for the first time.

If we assume that a household can manage on 100W in the evening for lighting
etc, then a small 3kW IC generator connected to a crude gasifier would keep
30 households in power.

If the households are already paying a dollar a day for power, then I would
not take a collective group, long to finance a small gas-gen-set.

Here in the UK you can buy a 3.5hp Briggs & Stratton already fitted to a
lawn mover for about 200 dollars, surely these engines sell wholesale for
about 50 bucks.

Perhaps these "new users" should consider a small scale approach first based
on technology they can quickly master, rather than paying for a
multi-hundred-thousand dollar installation?

 

 

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From thomas at biopilze.de Thu Jun 21 14:53:20 2001
From: thomas at biopilze.de (Thomas Ziegler)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small scale power generation
In-Reply-To: <018c01c0fa7d$7fa74ae0$e1b3883e@boakk>
Message-ID: <3B3241EE.DE8E9E85@biopilze.de>

>...Perhaps these "new users" should consider a small scale approach
> first based on technology they can quickly master, rather than paying > for a multi-hundred-thousand dollar installation?
if not the same mistakes from the first and scond world are repeaten...
but: who will tell them about the smaller (more sustainable??)
alternatives...
the big enterprises are intersted in big solutions, and their potential
customers seldomly have the survey about what is possible...
(but if i think of diesel engines, their efficiency is better when
bigger..., so there is a certain optimum in between..?)
thomas
--
der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \
the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm
le petit eco - champignoneur allemand /

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From kchishol at fox.nstn.ca Thu Jun 21 15:02:03 2001
From: kchishol at fox.nstn.ca (Kevin Chisholm)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small scale power generation
In-Reply-To: <018c01c0fa7d$7fa74ae0$e1b3883e@boakk>
Message-ID: <NEBBLHHHOLFOEGCILKHEOEJICNAA.kchishol@fox.nstn.ca>

Dear Ken

...del...
>
> Dear List members,
>
> I have read with interest todays posting's on introducing electricity into
> villages/communities for the first time.
>
> If we assume that a household can manage on 100W in the evening
> for lighting
> etc, then a small 3kW IC generator connected to a crude gasifier
> would keep
> 30 households in power.

The thing here is that when one does not have electricity, 100W is more than
adequate to make a major change in lifestyle of such a Community. The
problem is that ppl get hooked on power very quickly, and very soon, their
demand per household increases to 200, 300, 400 watts, etc.
>
> If the households are already paying a dollar a day for power,
> then I would
> not take a collective group, long to finance a small gas-gen-set.

I understand, from a subsequent correction, that the the figure is 50 to 100
pesos per day... not 50 to 100 cents per day.
>
> Here in the UK you can buy a 3.5hp Briggs & Stratton already fitted to a
> lawn mover for about 200 dollars, surely these engines sell
> wholesale for
> about 50 bucks.

Here in Canada, you can buy such a lawnmower for $C149 = $US100
>
> Perhaps these "new users" should consider a small scale approach
> first based
> on technology they can quickly master, rather than paying for a
> multi-hundred-thousand dollar installation?
>
Here is a system for your consideration:

1: A small gasoline or diesel engine, or a gasifier system, as you suggest.
2: A battery bank
3: A 12 VDV generator
4: 10Amp, 20 Amp, and 30 amp circuit breakers.
5: A "Battery Charge Manager" that signals a need for the engine to start
when battery voltage falls below a certain level, and stops it when battery
voltage is back to desired level.
6: An AutoStart engine controller that starts the engine automatically
6: Solar, wind, or micro-hydro generators parallelled with the engine
recharging system, to recharge batteries when these energy forms are
available for supplementation.

The individual home would be charged for power based on the size of the
circuit breaker he had installed.... the fella with the 30 Amp breaker would
pay 3 times as much as the fella with the 10 Amp breaker.

For information on "Battery Charge Managers", see:
http://www.dynagensystems.com/products/bcm.htm

and for information on AutoStart Engine Controllers, see:
http://www.dynagensystems.com/products/es.html

What do you think of such a proposed system???

Kindest regards,

Kevin Chisholm
>
>
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From kpert at ozemail.com.au Thu Jun 21 15:25:53 2001
From: kpert at ozemail.com.au (Einion & Robin Thomas)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: gasification
Message-ID: <000101c0fa88$038c5a80$0f66fea9@pja>

Please unsubscribe

 

 

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From kenboak at stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk Thu Jun 21 15:54:29 2001
From: kenboak at stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk (Ken Boak)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small scale power generation
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLHHHOLFOEGCILKHEOEJICNAA.kchishol@fox.nstn.ca>
Message-ID: <002d01c0fa8b$f2a3e7c0$ceb7883e@boakk>

Kevin & Gassers,

Are you suggesting that initially such a community should use low voltage
dc, to simplify wiring and increase safety. This would also prevent anyone
from drawing much more than 400W and would curtail the use of power for
"heating" purposes.

I like the idea of paying for the size of breaker you install, no need fo
meters etc. Exceed the max load and your lights go out.

Automotive electrics should be readily available including alternator or
older generator, pulleys, belts, regulator circuit and starter motor. I
guess a little ingenuity is needed as well to get the best usage out of such
components.

The lawn mower motor approach may be prone to premature death, these B&S
motors probably only have a 2000 hr continuous running life.

Assuming that an old vehicle is to donate most of the parts, perhaps a
stripped down under-rated automotive engine might have greater longevity. -
Take out 3 pistons and rods and put to one side as spares to be used when
the single running cylinder wears out? This approach might give you 8hp
or so, a bit rough, but less stressed. Imagine the old "hit and miss"gas
engines they used in about 1900 - same idea. A simple 12V trembler circuit
to fire the sparkplug via the coil could provide hit and miss speed
regulation. The gas may be of inconsistent calorific value, so some means
of automatic speed regulation, under load, would be needed.

Fill the back of the car with spare automotive batteries, or run a
"recharging" shop for those not yet on the distribution circuit.

The gasifier could be made from steel salvaged from the rest of the vehicle.
Leave on the road wheels so that it could be trundled about the village if
necessary.

Ken

 

 

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From snkm at btl.net Thu Jun 21 16:07:20 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small scale power generation
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010621140340.00948840@wgs1.btl.net>

 

>>...Perhaps these "new users" should consider a small scale approach
>> first based on technology they can quickly master, rather than paying
>>for a multi-hundred-thousand dollar installation?

At 08:50 PM 6/21/2001 +0200:
thomas--der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \ the small german organic
mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm>le petit eco - champignoneur
allemand
Replies:

>if not the same mistakes from the first and second world are repeaten...
>but: who will tell them about the smaller (more sustainable??)
>alternatives...
>the big enterprises are intersted in big solutions, and their potential
>customers seldomly have the survey about what is possible...
>(but if i think of diesel engines, their efficiency is better when
>bigger..., so there is a certain optimum in between..?)
>thomas

Small is beautiful because it is then universally applicable -- but as the
man says -- there is no incentive in the present civilization of modern man
to go small -- not in anything!

It is not like we don't have the technology to build a 1000 watt biomass
genset -- that would consume maybe 500 grams of biomass fuel per kwh -- and
sell for $100 -- but rather that it is simply not on the "agenda".

It is through mental processes such as this that great societies of mankind
saw their endings -- all through our long and past history.

We are about to see a gasifier genset along these exact lines being
produced -- but not for biomasses -- rather liquid fuels -- and not for
global village -- but for cars.

Eventually, some of us on this list today will acquire these units -- from
"scrap" cars. Play with them -- and adapt them to use biomass -- probably
losing a lot of working efficiency in the process.

And that is the absolute best we can hope for.

What we need is a Chinese "Honda" to come and revolutionize this field of
endeavor just like the Honda did in Japan -- many years back -- with the
then state of the art motorcycle industry.

Moderns remember Honda as the man that made fast motorcycles. But 3rd world
remembers him as the man that finally brought reliable and extremely
economic motorized transport to them.

Yes -- that incredible little 50 cc moped/motorcycle.

But the time of "Hondas" has long gone by -- now it is d*mn the torpedoes
-- full speed ahead -- to global oblivion!

We need a Honda revolution in this gasifier industry -- but we will never
see such this turn of the wheel -- will we???

We are now one big bureaucratic world -- and these style projects are no
longer on any agenda.

Unless by some fluke -- I do get a small precision machine shop going here
in Belize -- then -- watch out!!

I'd soon have a device that can put out 1000 watts when hung over any
cooking fire -- taking heat from above the food cooking process. "Topping"
the cook stove for energy.

Maybe it could even be one of Tom's well designed gasifying turbo stoves.

But I fantasize in color now --- my future looks more like swinging a
machete to chop wood for a cook fire -- no computer -- no internet -- no
gizmos -- but a full belly and a dry bed -- yes.

And by the looks of developing global issues -- in just a few more years --
that might well be a luxury the rest of you can only dream about.

We came close -- to bad "close" only counts in the game called horse shoes.

Right now -- I would be extremely happy if the Chinese could make a single
cylinder Wartsila style diesel -- 40% efficiency -- that could burn
anything from crude oil to orimulsion (basically a coal dust and water
emulsion -- so could be burning charcoal dust water emulsion -- happily)
and selling that for less than $1000.00 -- say 5000 watt output.

The Scandinavian people pride themselves as being the world's social
conscience. And Wartsila is Scandinavian. So why do they not "donate" such
a design to let China (our present 3rd world industrial power house of
productivity) produce this device for 3rd world?

Surely -- Wartsila themselves are not interested in "small" diesels of this
nature -- so it is no down the road competition to them. So why does not
Wartsila give a little something back to 3rd world?

Or have the Scandinavians learnt such a good lesson from the North
Americans -- namely how to bull-sh*t their way to credibility in real
social issues?? By holding marches -- and meetings -- with thousands
attending -- getting global TV coverage -- everyone shouting how this is
bad -- and this should be done to fix it all -- and that is the limit of
their social actions -- shouting. Then going back and living the fat life
expunged of all social obligations -- believing they have done "work" to
help the global social situation.

Think of it -- a small Wartsila single cylinder -- dieseling -- engine that
gasifies charcoal directly in the cylinder during the power stroke!

As many of this lists members can realize -- this is not impossible at all.

Hard to avoid discussion of "politics" on a mail list devoted to
gasification -- when the problem with engineering biomass gasification
power plants is politics -- not technology.

Well, back to sharpening my machete --- A friend of mine will be sending me
the Mad Max series of movies on video tape. I do still own and operate a
VCR -- think I'll just keep watching these movies to get a feeling for the
immediate future we are heading for -- until either the VCR dies or no more
electircal power. (or no more butane for my old Honda -- butane fuel
adapted -- genset) Also -- I always get a real kick when "snake" Blishkin
(sp??) pushes that button at the end of the movie -- "Escape from Los
Angeles" -- shutting down all electrical power on the entire planet -- one
time and for all time!!

My mood these days is simple: Why don't we just blow the world up now --
one time -- and get it over with. This waiting is driving my crazy!! If
someone gave me a button to push --

Actually -- i have to go paint my sail boat -- which is presently hauled
up. Want to see a picture of it??

http://www.belize1.com/reefcrawl/index.html

and

http://Belize1.com/reefcrawl/trip.html

And just think of it -- I do not even need electricity to make it work --
never mind power -- just raise that sail and go fishing -- good protein
source -- fish -- full belly fish.

Ha -- many of you are trying to get rich enough to live poor like this ---
how confused moderns are. Eating their cake and still wanting it to.

One thing you can all be sure of -- if your looking for an objective view
on the present situation -- I can most assuredly give it to you. One way or
the other -- makes no difference to me.

Peter Singfield
Belize / Central America

At 08:50 PM 6/21/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>>...Perhaps these "new users" should consider a small scale approach
>> first based on technology they can quickly master, rather than paying >
for a multi-hundred-thousand dollar installation?
>if not the same mistakes from the first and scond world are repeaten...
>but: who will tell them about the smaller (more sustainable??)
>alternatives...
>the big enterprises are intersted in big solutions, and their potential
>customers seldomly have the survey about what is possible...
>(but if i think of diesel engines, their efficiency is better when
>bigger..., so there is a certain optimum in between..?)
>thomas
>--
>der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \
>the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm
>le petit eco - champignoneur allemand /
>
>-
>Gasification List Archives:
>http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>
>Gasification List Moderator:
>Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
>www.webpan.com/BEF
>
>Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
>-
>Other Gasification Events and Information:
>http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>
>

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From calsch at montana.com Thu Jun 21 16:22:36 2001
From: calsch at montana.com (Cal Schindel)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Applying to the proper market
Message-ID: <3B32495A.C7A3877E@montana.com>

Peter said: "At present all corn is ground by their women. In the most
primitive of manners -- that is stone on stone.

This occupies a fair amount of any woman's time in their culture.

What are the woman to do with the "free" time they have once the corn
grinder is set up??"

There's your market! Ready made! Set up your small generator, and sell
corn grinders to the women on credit. Pretty quick it will be "off to
work to get the dollar a day, old man, or no more knoky knoky!"

And by means such as this civilization grows.

And I wouldn't worry about the technical capability of the Californians.
Plenty there. It is the idiotic socialism and decisions by bureaucracy
that is their real problem.

Cal

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From snkm at btl.net Thu Jun 21 16:35:00 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconut power
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010621141257.00939a10@wgs1.btl.net>

At 03:01 PM 6/21/2001 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 6/21/2001 12:18:11 PM Central Daylight Time, snkm@btl.net
>writes:

> A gasifier to replace diesel for that unit will probably cost more in
> interest charges than the cost of the diesel (only) to run it.
> >>
>
>
>You may have discussed this before but what size net power output are you
>talking about with this engine and gen set used in your example?
>

Sorry folks -- 500 watts. The single cylinder diesel produces 8 HP.

I was looking these over at an outside market in Flores, Guatemala, Peten 8
months ago. I believe the corn grinder does 640 lbs per hour. Can't
remember the specs on the water pump.

Each item is mounted on a thick hardwood plank and alternatively connected
by flat belt drive.

I am not sure -- but believe these are low RPM diesels -- and extremely
fuel efficient. Probably can run on numerous types of oils as well. They
certainly are "simple" machines and would be easy to adapt to any purpose
-- like running just on gas -- with addition of a spark plug and "timing".

Peter Singfield -- Belize

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From snkm at btl.net Thu Jun 21 16:55:20 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Applying to the proper market
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010621144457.00940100@wgs1.btl.net>

 

>And I wouldn't worry about the technical capability of the Californians.
>Plenty there. It is the idiotic socialism and decisions by bureaucracy
>that is their real problem.
>
>Cal

Yes -- and that derived from to much "free-time" for their woman folks.

Also -- I hear that woman stay on "top" during the sexual act there?? That
explains a lot to. That is considered a major perversion of male dominance
among the Maya. But what do they know?? They have only been around --
living in a very civilized social manner -- for 8000 years or more
(according to carbon dating for the ruins at Cuello -- about 20 miles from
where I am typing this)

Compared to these people -- we are barbarians -- true -- covering ourselves
in baubles of technological "gizmos" --

What is the difference between barbarians and civilized peoples?? The
length of time their cultures can survive on this planet.

The Maya -- if left undisturbed -- will still be living in social "grace"
10,000 years from now. Moderns industrialized societies run out of "Gas"
before the next 1000 years pass -- and the reason that does not concern
them is they know they probably will not last even a tenth of even that
minor time scale.

Peter

>
>-
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From snkm at btl.net Thu Jun 21 17:07:05 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Coconut power
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010621150416.0093aea0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Sorry folks -- 500 watts. The single cylinder diesel produces 8 HP.

AAAACK!! 5000 watts -- 5 kw

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From gawchicken at hotmail.com Thu Jun 21 17:49:43 2001
From: gawchicken at hotmail.com (j, webb)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: gasification membership
Message-ID: <F282dcYNcLLaY6E2YIR0001182b@hotmail.com>

unsubscribe me. thanks gaw
_________________________________________________________________
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From snkm at btl.net Thu Jun 21 20:03:50 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small scale power generation
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010621175603.0093f260@wgs1.btl.net>

>Fill the back of the car with spare automotive batteries, or run a
>"recharging" shop for those not yet on the distribution circuit.
>
>The gasifier could be made from steel salvaged from the rest of the vehicle.
>Leave on the road wheels so that it could be trundled about the village if
>necessary.
>

Ken -- check out this site that was just posted to the list -- and I
include their "FAQ" sheet in this message. Now think of this hooked up to
-- say -- my old 1981 Volks Rabbit Diesel -- I believe they have 1000's of
these in good shape in Germany??

http://www.aurasystems.com/

So just ship a good old volks rabbit diesel with one of these devices to
the village you want to help. Not only do they get electrical power -- but
a fine mode of transport for extremly poor roads.

But then -- arn't we overloading their economic abilities a little?? Again --

But hey --- could be great for your house -- run it on old cooking oils.

Peter

********appended********

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: How much power does the AuraGen 5kW Mobile Generator produce?

The AuraGen produces 5kW Continuous; 7.2kW Peak. A number of AC/DC power
combinations are also available where the total power is 5.3kW continuous.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: Will the AuraGen Mobile Generator fit in my vehicle(s)?
Currently, the AuraGen Mobile Generator System is available for over ninety
(90) of the most popular makes/models. The system is currently available
for the majority of mid and full-size work vehicles, trucks and SUVs built
between 1990 - 2000. More makes/models are being added to the list on an
regular basis. A complete Vehicle Applications Catalog is available on this
web site. To access our Applications Catalog please select the
"Applications Catalog' button on the home page at www.aurasystems.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: How is an AuraGen different from an Alternator?
The AuraGen is based on a patented Solid Rotor making it small, rugged and
highly efficient. The AuraGen typically runs at 75 - 85% efficiency even at
low speed where alternators at high speeds may hit 70% efficiency but fall
off to less than 10% at low engine speeds. Thus, when you want power (low
speeds for stationary users) the AuraGen is able to meet the need.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: How long does an AuraGen installation take?
The average AuraGen installation takes between 6 - 12 hours depending on
the vehicle type and options selected. Hourly installation rates vary by
region.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: How does the AuraGen fit under-the-hood?
The patented design of the AuraGen generator allows it to be substantially
smaller than a typical 5kW generator. In most applications, the AuraGen
mounts in the front of the engine compartment with the AuraGen belt pulley
aligned with the vehicle crank pulley. A separate AuraGen pulley and belt
are installed, so the AuraGen belt position is typically just in front of
the existing serpentine belt.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: How is the AuraGen mounted to my vehicle(s)?
In most cases the AuraGen is mounted under-the-hood. The AuraGen can also
be Power Take-Off (PTO) mounted, or hydraulically driven by a hydraulic motor.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: Does the AuraGen generate AC, DC or AC & DC power?
You can order your AuraGen with AC power only, DC power only or a
combination of AC & DC power. Call our AuraGen Sales Team for the details
on the different product options.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: Is the AuraGen a "cleaner" alternative than a conventional mobile
generator?
Yes, without question. The AuraGen Power System installed within a vehicle
produces far less emissions than a typical gas-powered mobile
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the carbon monoxide emissions generated by a pre-1999 mobile
generator/genset and less than 80% of the carbon monoxide emissions
generated by a post-1999 mobile generator/genset.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: Have environmental tests been conducted on the AuraGen?
Yes. The AuraGen was subjected to rigorous environmental testing as per SAE
J-1211 (The Society of Automotive Engineers Recommended Practice for
Electronic Equipment Design for Automotive Underhood Environments).
Additionally, the AuraGen has been undergone numerous tests as part of the
company's ongoing program as a supplier to the US Army.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Administration) certifications and the AuraGen GSA number is GS-30F-0012K.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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longevity of the vehicle?
None. Unlike conventional mobile generators/gensets the AuraGen Mobile
Generator is maintenance-free and requires no additional maintenance beyond
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----
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No. The AuraGen can only be installed by a Certified AuraGen Installer.

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the biggest motor/compressor the AuraGen can start?
The AuraGen has outstanding capability to handle high-surge motors and
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the AuraGen will start a typical 4.0 horsepower electric motor or a 8.1kW
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Yes. The AuraGen ECU (Electronics Control Unit) is equipped with an
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Receptacles used are UL listed and GFI protected as they would be in any
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
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The AuraGen is a highly efficient power supply. Approximately 10hp is
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----
Question: Does the AuraGen affect the operation of the vehicle?
No.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: Can you pull full 5000 Watt power from a single outlet or circuit?
You can pull 21 amps at 240Volts or 42 amps at 120 Volts. Limitations in
power is due to the GFI plugs. More power can be delivered if needed, up to
the maximum safety specifications.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: Where do we mount the AuraGen Control Panel (On/Off Switch) and
the ECU (Electronic Control Unit)?
The AuraGen's small Control Panel (On/Off Switch) is most often mounted
under or within the dash area where it is easily accessible. The Control
Panel measures about 3 1/2" x 2". Additionally, a Remote Start option is
available for anyone who requires turning the systems on or off from
outside the vehicle. The AuraGen's ECU can be mounted in a variety of
vehicle locations. Typical installation locations include: in the bed of
the truck, inside a tool box compartment or within the rear cargo area.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: Does the AuraGen have brushes or slip rings like other electric
generators which would need periodic replacement?
The AuraGen is an AC induction machine. As such, no brushes or slip rings
are used.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: What are the additional custom options?
Remote Start. Remote Power Strip. Also, we offer a Home Transfer Switch
which can be installed on your home to use the AuraGen as a backup
generator in an emergency.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: How long can I run the AuraGen on a full tank of gas?
The length of time an AuraGen can run at a full 5kW load varies by vehicle
make and model.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: How does the AuraGen effect my vehicle(s) electrical system? And,
will the AuraGen Mobile Generator drain my vehicle(s) battery?
The AuraGen has negligible effect on the vehicle's electrical system. The
AuraGen will not drain your vehicle's battery like an inverter. Unlike an
inverter, the AuraGen generates its own power, even when used for extended
periods.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: How can I find out more about purchasing an AuraGen?
There are four easy ways to get all the information you need...

1. Complete the AuraGen Product Information Request Form on this web site.
Use the button on the home page of this web site to get there.
2. Call the AuraGen Customer Service Team toll-free @ 1-800-909-AURA
(8:00am - 5:00pm PST).
3. Email the AuraGen Customer Service Team at: sales@aurasystems.com
4. Contact your closest Certified Dealer directly.

We have provided a complete list along with their phone/fax numbers on this
web site. To access our dealer listing simply select the 'AuraGen Dealers'
button on the home page at www.aurasystems.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: I'm interested in getting more information about the AuraGen
Mobile Generator for a number of my company's work vehicle(s)?
Please call or email us directly at: 1-800-909-AURA or email:
sales@aurasystems.com. One of our AuraGen Sales Team members will get back
to you and answer all your questions quickly and professionally.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Question: Is there a list of Certified AuraGen dealers?
Yes. This dealer list is contained within this web site and can be viewed
by selecting the 'AuraGen Dealer' button on our home page here at
www.aurasystems.com



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From fraction3 at home.com Thu Jun 21 22:14:41 2001
From: fraction3 at home.com (fraction3@home.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: `List-Unsubscribe'' header of any list message?
Message-ID: <3B32AA64.E0303B15@home.com>

Hello,

Trying to bail out of here but the Domo instructions are
indecipherable. Any clues? The messages I get do not have
this (`List-Unsubscribe'' header of any list message") in
them. It's been an interesting few years but I have to get
away from the rant-pack.

Thanks,

Alan

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From tbollman at twlakes.net Thu Jun 21 23:31:47 2001
From: tbollman at twlakes.net (Tim Bollman)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: For what it's worth,
Message-ID: <3B32C350.000005.51275@default>

 

 

 

<TD id=INCREDITEXTREGION width="100%" style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; PADDING-LEFT: 7px; PADDING-RIGHT: 7px"
>

For what it's worth,
First, I am not a sociologist or anthropologist and have no idea of the
stresses-either economic or social- the the introduction of electricity
has on a "third world" culture. I merely come to this discussion as an
impartial observer of unmitagated enslavement.
Further, while I have been -and lived- in many states, I have never
been out of the USA. My viewpoint is that of a somewhat atypical
American.
I read daily the dire warnings of the evironmentalists or "greens" and
discount them as propaganda, I consider it to be the height of human
arrogance to assume that the human race has the ability to destroy such a
vast and complex thing as the earths eco-system, short of massive nuclear
war.
The "greens" have an agenda.......money in their pockets.....power in
their organizations..... wether science supports their ascertations or
not....they will distort it to serve THEIR purposes. They have no viable
solutions or reasonable alternatives. They simply ascert that we must not
cut that, burn this, water those, or build such and such. All the time
while driving their Volvos', wiping their ass with old growth toilet
tissue, living in their thermostaticaly controlled condos' and wasting
untold electrons on the incessant meetings, conferences, and propaganda
distribution.
I reached the point long ago of not falling for the "sky is falling
argument". I won't go back. As Peter Singer tells us, the wheel is
turning, and has turned, in his opinion, to the point of no return. This
may be true, but why copitulate before the bitter end? The reason I lurk
upon this mailing list is that; I believe there is an alternative. Rather
than piss and moan about the problems created by modern society, I long
ago determined to solve those problems, at least for me and my family. I
see gasification of bio-mass as a portion of that solution. I also see
contributions from cogeneration, solar power and geothermal sources.
That being said, I believe that Peter has observed what any reasonable,
logical and sane person can...to wit...we are currently exploiting a
limited finite resource (fossil fuels) that will inevitably be depleted to
extinction. Wether that happens in my life-time, or even tommorrow, I do
not know. I do know that I am prepared to continue the status quo when it
happens, however.
Any damn fool that ties his ability to light and heat his home to a
fossil fuel based system is just that in my opinion...a DAMN FOOL.
Further, any back country village that invites a huge multinational Fossil
Fuel company in to start an addictive monopoly in their village is like
wise a DAMN FOOL. Multi national comanies do not exist to be noble or
philanthropic, they exist to exploit consumers. They are VERY good at
it...it will happen. If their long term balance sheet doesn't indicate a
profit, they would not be there.

If ,we of this world, stumble blindly forward burning fossil fuels
until they no longer exist, we deserve the extinction of our societies
that will naturaly follow. It will effect us all eventually, even the
Mayas Peter wax so eloquently about. As to the Mayas, I actually resent
the simplicity of their existance, I would love to have the same luxury of
their ignorance and poverty. As it is, I spend in excess of 40 a week
struggling to keep up with modern life....my family seems to be addicted
to it. Sadly, I am as well.
Which brings me to my next point. As you all know I live in the state
of Tennessee, in the USA, the heart of the worlds biggest electrical
producer(TVA), one of their dams is less than 15 miles from me....cheapest
electricity in the nation....world in fact. And I generate my own
electricity. Thats right 24/7/363...120 volts...usually 6 to 8 KWH a day.
Amazingly, the cost I inccur to generate my own electricity is roughly
comparable to the cost my neighbors incurr on a monthly basis for TVA
power, and I didn't have to pay the $20,000 it cost to run the !@@#$%%^#@
power lines past my house.
As some of the replies lately have indicated, a system based upon
commonly available, cheap and durable automotive components fill the bill
for me. Ironically, Peter, I've found that a HONDA 5 horse to be the most
effiecient and reliable prime mover. With a reasonable life span exceeding
10,000 hours, it greatly exceeds the specs of the B&S engine mentioned
by others. My first system was a B&S and it lasted right at 2000 hours
- with constant maintainence. A very old (circa 1975) GM 100 amp
alternator has powered my house for the last six months...and shows no
signs of wear or reduced capacity (at a cost of $12.00 I can replace it
many times a year before I exceed the cost of "piped in Electric"). I have
4 batteries that store my excess current until I need it (up to 8 hours of
heavy usage) and I modify the low voltage with a 2000 watt inverter that I
purchased for $350.00.
Least you consider this an exercise in futility, I have been doing this
for over two years now, my gasoline bill is rarely over $30.00 a month,
the entire system cost less than $1000.00 and seems to be durable enough
to last for several more years. My wife turns on her hair curlers when she
wishes, turns on the lights she needs to at will, the water gets pumped at
demand.....I run 2 computers, 2 printers (one laser) TV....et al..... But
it is inconvienent to go out and pour a half a gallon of gas in the
alternator and pull the starter rope...once or twice a day.....NOT.
Nowhere near as painfull as writing that $100.00 check to the electric
company every month.
My biggest lament is that I've not had the luxury of time to build and
integrate a wood gassifier into the system. Living on 20 acres of
rainforest affords soo many burnable wood scraps that we typicaly just
pile them up and torch them.
It is a limitation I live with, for now, as I am also building a house
that I intend to heat with a candle and cool with an ice-cube. Impossible
you say? That's what everyone said about generating my own
electricity.
If we continue to accept the company line, we continue to accept the
cost the company wishes to charge us for existing....I do not. I don't
wish to pay Shell for my electric, and won't. I don't wish to pay Shell
for my gas, and eventualy I won't. I don't wish to pay TVA to dry my
clothes, toast my toast or bake my ass, I don't. And never will again.

Whilst those of you on this list might subscribe this as a tirade
against Peter, please do not, A very intensense thunderstorm just moved
thru here and forced me off-line. It also forced me to personally review
my stance. in mid-tirade.
It is my experience that Peter is an exceptional engineer...or at very
least a designer (as am I) his ideas on dual fluid expansion engines are
without par, I read each of his posts with baited breath. In fact I relish
his input on all phases of this discussion.
It is my recollection that Peter is origianally from the upper mid-west
of the USA. His constant laments of lacking a machine shop smacks me of my
constant vane protestations....with a machine shop a mile away.
Let us reach an understanding to move this discussion from theorietical
to real life, before the politicians make it a rote matter, and regulate
us to a constant state of "doing with-out"...say like Kalifornia.

THE VERY DIFFICULT I DO IMMEDIATELY, THE IMPOSSIBLE, I'LL FINISH
TOMORROW.
and what is left , we'll deal with day after tomorrow.
Humbly,
Tim Bollman...thru the smoke from the
Honda,

 

 








 

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From thomas at biopilze.de Fri Jun 22 01:29:10 2001
From: thomas at biopilze.de (Thomas Ziegler)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: how to get good ideas together...
In-Reply-To: <3B32C350.000005.51275@default>
Message-ID: <3B32D702.C54E274F@biopilze.de>

>...Peter is an exceptional engineer...or at very least a designer (as >am I) his ideas on dual fluid expansion engines are without par...

YES!!!
and thats why we should work more closely together to get ideas running,
i do a bit brain-storm:
make pics, descriptions, blue-prints, posts with REAL CONTENT, collect
them, extract and let them put whereever on the web...
as peter suggested: to http://tzabcan.com/
what may i contribute to this task...???
--
der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \
the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm
le petit eco - champignoneur allemand /

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From snkm at btl.net Fri Jun 22 09:58:07 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: how to get good ideas together...
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010622075414.00949100@wgs1.btl.net>

At 07:26 AM 6/22/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>>...Peter is an exceptional engineer...or at very least a designer (as >am
I) his ideas on dual fluid expansion engines are without par...
>
>YES!!!
>and thats why we should work more closely together to get ideas running,
>i do a bit brain-storm:
>make pics, descriptions, blue-prints, posts with REAL CONTENT, collect
>them, extract and let them put whereever on the web...
>as peter suggested: to http://tzabcan.com/
>what may i contribute to this task...???
>--

OK Thomas;

Here is a brief description of the technology I am fixated on:

I believe that one can easily apply the thermodynamic principles of huge
steam power plants to micro scale by changing the "working-fluid" to one of
lower vapor temperature than water.

The case example I use is butane -- as it is already a well established
"refrigerant" working fluid in most -- if not all -- geothermal power plant
applications. And that stretching back over 40 years now.

The thermodynamics of vapor power depends entirely on the amount of super
heat one can apply to the vapor.

With steam in those huge coal combustion plants -- that is 1400 F or
greater. Obviously it becomes very complicated to operate mechanical
apparatus in those ranges.

I get the same thermodynamic properties with Butane at 400 F -- and at 440F
the same as steam would be getting at over 1600 F

A simple reciprocating piston engine can extract power from those super
heated vapors at better efficiencies than even the most exotic of the steam
power plants in existence today. Turbines are the only way to go with huge
plants -- steam engines are then simply impractical. Further -- hard to
work with high temperatures in any piston design. In small applications --
the properly designed piston engine will always do better than a turbine.
As this is being done at just 440 F -- it does not require exotic
engineering or exotic materials.

Ergo -- scale of engineering is not dependent on scale of project.

On the other hand -- it is very difficult to design a refrigerant cycle
system up to huge power plant capacities using butane. For a start -- one
needs over four times the amount of working fluid for the same amount of
power plant as when using steam -- and for gigawatt power plants -- that
becomes a major headache.

For a dinky toy 1000 to 5000 watt power plant -- no problem.

Heat exchanger surface area is a huge problem in high super heat. And with
butane -- one needs four times as much!!

But modern plate heat exchangers are happy at the 440F range -- are
extremely efficient -- small in size -- and cheap.

OK -- could go on for hours -- but you have the "soul" of it???

There is absolutely no reason these style devices can't be built and
distributed.

The engine/generator is far less complicated than a house hold
refrigerator. The plate heat exchangers would be along the same lines as
present evaporators/condensers on that same refrigerator.

You hang one of these over any heat source -- and achieve a 40% or better
heat to electrical power conversion ratio.

Why bother with gasification -- simple combustion will be fine -- of any
material.

440 F -- easy to get that with a solar collector to. And 40% is a lot
better than the present 10 to 15% of solar cells.

But works best micro/small sizes.

There -- thumb nail description.

********************

Ok -- the "spin-off" for gasification should be obvious.

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From snkm at btl.net Fri Jun 22 10:24:20 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: 15 hp Hunstedt diesel will burn anything
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010622080524.00948e00@wgs1.btl.net>

 

OK listers -- here is an interesting "twist" -- anyone know about his
"device"??

****************************

 

Peter

You can buy a 15 hp Hunstedt diesel will burn anything. Has glo bulb,
the works. Turn it on and leave it on for a year. Flywheel weighs 4000
lbs and stands 5 feet high.

Icelandic shrimp fleet uses them, they run all year on all kinds of
oddity type oils and fuels. One cylinder engine, 150 rpm direct drive,
high torque. Practically watch the piston go up and down. Big mothers.
Big as your hurricane house.

 

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From snkm at btl.net Fri Jun 22 10:45:35 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: how to get good ideas together...
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010622084202.00951c00@wgs1.btl.net>

At 08:13 AM 6/22/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Peter, with a "steam" power plant is is relatively easy to condense the
>vapour back to liquid at typical ambiant temperatures via a condensor. The
>exchange medium can be water or air depending on the application. The
>process of then pumping the liquid into the boiler again is straightforward.
>
>To get get butane to condense back to liquid do you not require either very
>high compression or very low temperatures? How do you get the butane back
>to liquid in a butane cycle plant?
>
>Regards
>
>Greg Pachal

Basically the same way they do in that house hold refrigerator -- or any
"refrigeration" cycle -- pressure.

This means the motor operates with a back pressure.

This can be a huge problem for running an efficient steam engine such as
the uniflow. But it is solved by putting and exhaust valve in the piston
which opens for the return stroke. This still allows the thermodynamic
principles of "uniflow" (no exhausting cooler, spent vapors, through the
cylinder head, cooling intake vapors in the process -- and losing thermal
efficiencies)

Valve in a piston is old technology. And there are a number of ways to
implement this. A simple poppet valve is easily actuated at bottom of
stroke -- held by a detent -- and then closed by the cylinder head contact
-- into a closed detent. No valve train required.

In the design I am playing with I wish to actuate that valve
electronically. As well as the intake valve. All of this by micro-processor
controller -- which varies valve timing -- on the fly -- according to power
requirements and other operating conditions (such as changes in the
condensing circuit or boiler circuit -- so that highly optimized efficiency
of operation is always there)

You can't do this with a turbine -- which is "fixed" in design for top
efficiency at one set of vapor conditions.

By the way -- butane at 100F condenses at 51.675 PSIA

I would plan on a system running butane vapor at 200 PSIA "superheated" to
440F. So push would be around 150 psia

We'll get into the thermodynamic reason of "why" later. Got to run ---

And oh -- this would be well proto-typed using alcohol as working fluid.
Then no back pressure. Have to study that first though -- probably need
higher temperatures to get the same high thermodynamic efficiencies.

Peter

 

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From snkm at btl.net Fri Jun 22 12:31:54 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: GAS-LA: 15 hp Hunstedt diesel will burn anything
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010622102816.008f2e90@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Thanks Prof Parikh;

I could find no information on "Hunstedt diesel" through searching the WWW.

Your description of these becoming multi-cylinder fit with a modern
Wartsila design.

It would be interesting to see a 15 HP version available -- somewhere.

Of course -- these engine could be easily converted to running on producer
gas -- and would probably even be able to handle a less cleaned product
than normally is excepted.

I still say it is up to the industry of China to re-introduce these great
and old designs.

Are they still making steam locomotives in China?

Still -- regarding the bottom line of that original message -- I doubt one
can buy a single cyclinder diesel such as described -- these days.

And I doubt we'll ever be seeing the modern industrial nations producing such.

Peter

At 08:50 AM 6/22/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>

Such diesel engines called as HP|OT START SLOW SPEED engines were the very
first engines designed as diesel engines. They seem to be making a return
and revival even in power sector in a big way except for big flywheels
since now they are of big capacities and therefore multi-multi-cylinder
ones, so they do not need such big flywheels. Sure they are expected to run
for long durations non-stop!

Mrs Parikh

Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net> wrote:
OK listers -- here is an interesting "twist" -- anyone know about his
"device"??

****************************

 

Peter

You can buy a 15 hp Hunstedt diesel will burn anything. Has glo bulb,
the works. Turn it on and leave it on for a year. Flywheel weighs 4000
lbs and stands 5 feet high.

Icelandic shrimp fleet uses them, they run all year on all kinds of
oddity type oils and fuels. One cylinder engine, 150 rpm direct drive,
high torque. Practically watch the piston go up and down. Big mothers.
Big as your hurricane house.

 

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From CAVM at aol.com Fri Jun 22 12:51:11 2001
From: CAVM at aol.com (CAVM@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: GAS-LA: 15 hp Hunstedt diesel will burn anything
Message-ID: <12b.642476.2864d10d@aol.com>

Peter,

Was it in this newsgroup that last year there were a number of comments on an
old one cyclider diesel engine with a large fly wheel that was still being
made in South Africa or somewhere? This antique engine was like the Timex
watch, it just kept on ticking year after year.

Neal Van Milligen

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From ericbj at club-internet.fr Fri Jun 22 21:16:56 2001
From: ericbj at club-internet.fr (Eric Bruce Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Applying to the proper market
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010621104802.00939230@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <3B33F19B.3FB20226@club-internet.fr>

 

Peter Singfield a écrit:

> At present all corn is ground by their women. In the most primitive of
> manners -- that is stone on stone.
>
> This occupies a fair amount of any woman's time in their culture.
>
> What are the woman to do with the "free" time they have once the corn
> grinder is set up??
>
> I know -- you moderns are dedicated to easing life's burden on your woman
> -- keeping them high on the pedestal. So you might just not understand the
> above question.

At present all corn is ground by their women. In the most primitive of
manners -- that is stone on stone.

This occupies a fair amount of any woman's time in their culture.

What are the woman to do with the "free" time they have once the corn
grinder is set up??

I know -- you moderns are dedicated to easing life's burden on your woman
-- keeping them high on the pedestal. So you might just not understand the
above question.

Liberation - and it takes many forms - should not be reserved for the male
half of the population. From your corner of the globe, Peter, the EZLN will
tell you as much. Women play an important part in the movement. We have had
Indians from the Chiapas, including women, in this neck-of-the-woods. And
recently, at this very computer, an Indian girl from Oaxaca province, where
there is no armed uprising, and yet where many of their menfolk are imprisoned
without trial, and tortured. The women are therefore playing a key role in
bringing their plight to the attention of world opinion. Since there are no
foreign observers, as there are in the Chiapas, conditions for the indigenous
population are if anything worse.

What has this to do with wood-gas, you may well ask? Let me explain. In
so-called "primitive" societies, which are only primitive in terms of western
technology (socially they are far more evolved, as will be discovered if one
cares to scratch the surface) the women are frequently the "beasts of burden"
and you will see them staggering along under enormous loads, of firewood, for
instance, while the man trots along behind with the axe. This is hard work.
Now supposing that instead of lighting an occasional fire they wish to run a
generator running off a gasifier (or, for that matter, produce a few cash crops
to buy a some little "luxuries" like mosquito nets, instead of damaging their
health by filling their houses with smoke) it is just not on. The answer :
draught animals.

Intelligent development is knowing how far to go, and when and where to stop.
Sustainable development as opposed to runaway, uncontrollable development.

The current world economy is like a steam-roller with no driver that is out of
control and crushing all in its path. And the reason is that economic power is
worshipped at the expense of social utility. This is not a fatality. The
answer lies not in our stars, but in ourselves. Join ATTAC, and fight for the
Tobin tax!

(Marketing hint:- try telling your people the women will have less time if they
buy your gasifier)

 

 

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From ericbj at club-internet.fr Sat Jun 23 15:53:10 2001
From: ericbj at club-internet.fr (Eric Bruce Johnston)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:26 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Applying to the proper market
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010621144457.00940100@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <3B34F6E5.7F09C6A0@club-internet.fr>

Peter Singfield a écrit:

> >And I wouldn't worry about the technical capability of the Californians.
> >Plenty there. It is the idiotic socialism and decisions by bureaucracy
> >that is their real problem.
> >
> >Cal
>
> Yes -- and that derived from to much "free-time" for their woman folks.
>
> Also -- I hear that woman stay on "top" during the sexual act there?? That
> explains a lot to. That is considered a major perversion of male dominance
> ...
> Peter

One wonders what would be your views on that great Sanskrit classic "The
Kama Sutra"?

Further, it could help if those with a declared antipathy for
"bloatware" were to set an example, by making their messages more
succinct.

Finally, to get back to the principal topic of this list, here is a
paper, for those with a working knowledge of French, on the economics
etc of gasification in rural Africa (Cameroon), "ESSAIS DE MOTORISATION
VILLAGEOISE ET ELECTRIFICATION A PARTIR DE LA BIOMASSE EN ZONE DE
FORET":
http://www.refer.fr/miroirs/sngal_ct/rec/cresa/tanawa.htm

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From thomas at biopilze.de Sat Jun 23 18:13:06 2001
From: thomas at biopilze.de (Thomas Ziegler)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: how to get good ideas together...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010622075414.00949100@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <3B3513B6.1B4E6F85@biopilze.de>

>...believe that one can easily apply the thermodynamic principles of huge
> steam power plants to micro scale by changing the "working-fluid" to one of
> lower vapor temperature than water...
as i remember the efficiency depends only on the temp-difference between
Tin and Tout
concerning carnot-cycle if talking of "right-running (clockwise??)
warmth-working-machines" (y=1-Tout/Tin) but as leftrunning
coldth/warmpumping-machines E=Tin/(Tin-Tout) so i think you cant compare
both processes that way... thomas
--
der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \
the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm
le petit eco - champignoneur allemand /

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From kenboak at stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk Sun Jun 24 12:33:50 2001
From: kenboak at stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk (Ken Boak)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: More sawmill facts
Message-ID: <017901c0fccb$62601ac0$d1bb883e@boakk>

Listers,

Here is some more background into the problems of small sawmills in the UK.

The only real outlet for sawdust is in the manufacture of chipboard and most
of the manufacturing plants are 200 miles away by road, so the transport
costs of a 25 tonne load of sawdust exceeds the value of the dust.

The chipboard makers will only pay 450 GBpounds (630 US dollars) for 25
tonnes of sawdust (the most a truck can carry on the UK roads) and if the
haulage costs are 300 GBP (US$ 420) then the sawdust falls in price to
the difference ie 150 GBP for 25 tonnes or 6 pounds a tonne (US$8.40)

What makes matters worse is that a small yard, may take 4 to 5 weeks to
accumulate a truckload, and the truck haulage company will charge an 80 GBP
waiting charge for any time more that 20 minutes loading the dust. This
immediately halves the value of the sawdust.

In larger sawmills, there will perhaps be 2 truckloads per week hauled away,
and it is stored in a large hopper so that the truck can be loaded very
quickly.

As a consequence, the small sawmill proprieter, faces an accumulating
mountain of sawdust which no one wants and which is impossible to find an
economical way of hauling it away.

Environmental laws recently mean that this dust can no longer be
incinerated, because of the perceived smoke problem - so its bad news for
the small sawyer.

Conversely the stripped bark, has become an immensely popular byproduct ( as
a direct result of TV gardening programs telling Joe Public to use it as a
garden mulch). As a result this otherwise, and previously useless byproduct
is now worth 1600 GBP for a 25 tonne truckload. The small sawmill should
invest in a bark stripper, and at least get some seasonal income from this
garden product.

I also learned that pointed pine poles ( 6' long by 3" diameter) are being
shipped in from Latvia. These are ready made and are a useful source of wood
for rustic garden furniture. When bought in bulk they arrive at the docks
for just 0.30 GBP (42 US cents!) and then are sold in garen centres for
TEN TIMES this price.!! It is cheaper to ship them in from Latvia, than
for the sawmill to bother processing their own timber.

So Wastewatters and Gasifiers, we need a sawdust burning CHP plant which
will consume 1 tonne (2400lbs) of sawdust per day with minimum manual
intervention.

Let's get cracking!

regards

Ken

 

 

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From CAVM at aol.com Sun Jun 24 14:57:46 2001
From: CAVM at aol.com (CAVM@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: More sawmill facts
Message-ID: <ad.c700c80.28679199@aol.com>

In a message dated 6/24/2001 11:33:40 AM Central Daylight Time,
kenboak@stirlingservice.freeserve.co.uk writes:

<< So Wastewatters and Gasifiers, we need a sawdust burning CHP plant which
will consume 1 tonne (2400lbs) of sawdust per day with minimum manual
intervention.

Let's get cracking!

regards

Ken
>>

Ken,

The direct combustion of green sawdust is established technology. We are
currently doing the engineering work to install a 2,000,000 BTU combustion
unit burning green sawdust on farm sites in Kentucky. Our objective is to
substitute for the high prices natural gas and propane now used in raising
poultry. These same units are available everywhere as far as I know. They
have very low emissions and can be permitted in a wide range of scenarios.

We have 4 ordered here in KY now and expect to have several more sold soon.
We estimate that we can pay $12/ton US for the green sawdust and still do
very well.

We are proposing a larger facility to burn wood waste, tire derived fuel and
beef feed lot manure in California and another in Sonora. MX for the
production of electricity using steam driven turbines.

What I would like is a good way to make mechanical power or electricity on a
small scale (50KW) from biomass. I am looking at steam engines, Sterlings,
wood gas, anaerobic digestion, etc.

Cornelius A. Van Milligen
Kentucky Enrichment Inc.
CAVM@AOL.com

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From VHarris001 at aol.com Sun Jun 24 16:00:53 2001
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NIST Guide to SI
Message-ID: <ea.17501bdc.2867a068@aol.com>

Hope some of you will find this guide informative and useful.

NIST Guide for the Use of the International System of Units (SI)

http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/contents.html

Vernon Harris

 

From snkm at btl.net Sun Jun 24 20:01:30 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NIST Guide to SI
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010624175723.0094ebd0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

Enthalpy of vaporization of methanol = 35.21 (kJ/mol)

What is a "value" for a "mol" ???

Please read on folks ---

At 03:58 PM 6/24/2001 EDT, you wrote:
>>>>
Hope some of you will find this guide informative and useful.

NIST Guide for the Use of the International System of Units (SI)

http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/contents.html

Vernon Harris
>>>>>>>>>>

OK Vern -- funny you should be digging into this - so am I.

Now I went over to nist to get a little extra info on the alcohols --
ethanol and methanol.

Let us take for example -- the latent heat of fusion figure.

Under our older system -- but per pound per degree F

Ethanol:

Boils at 173 F and takes 204.3 btu for each pound to change state

Methanol

Boils at 147.7 and takes 262.8 btu for each pound to change state

Now -- going over to nist -- specifically:

http://webbook.nist.gov/chemistry/name-ser.htm

Then enter methanol into the search field -- but first tag the properties
you want to review -- and this is what we get:

Enthalpy of vaporization (go way down to find this)

(kJ/mol) = 35.21 at temp of 337.7 K

OK -- 337.7 K = 148.190 F

And that more or less "fits" with my old books.

But what in "H" (pun intended) are kj/mol(s)??

Well, kj is kilo jules -- no problems there -- but what is a "mol"

Well further research finds this:

Definitions of the Seven Basic SI Units

metre [m]
The metre is the basic unit of length. It is the distance light travels, in
a vacuum, in 1/299792458th of a second.

kilogram [kg]
The kilogram is the basic unit of mass. It is the mass of an international
prototype in the form of a platinum-iridium cylinder kept at Sevres in
France. It is now the only basic unit still defined in terms of a material
object, and also the only one with a prefix[kilo] already in place.

second [s]
The second is the basic unit of time. It is the length of time taken for
9192631770 periods of vibration of the caesium-133 atom to occur.

ampere [A]
The ampere is the basic unit of electric current. It is that current which
produces a specified force between two parallel wires which are 1 metre
apart in a vacuum.It is named after the French physicist Andre Ampere
(1775-1836).

kelvin [K]
The kelvin is the basic unit of temperature. It is 1/273.16th of the
thermodynamic temperature of the triple point of water. It is named after
the Scottish mathematician and physicist William Thomson 1st Lord Kelvin
(1824-1907).

mole [mol]
The mole is the basic unit of substance. It is the amount of substance that
contains as many elementary units as there are atoms in 0.012 kg of carbon-12.

candela [cd]
The candela is the basic unit of luminous intensity. It is the intensity of
a source of light of a specified frequency, which gives a specified amount
of power in a given direction.

********************************

Ok -- so we now have the definition of a "mol"

But has anyone got a clue out there how to convert:

Enthalpy of vaporization of methanol = 35.21 (kJ/mol)

What is the value of a mol as referred to in this spec??

Peter

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From enecon at ozemail.com.au Sun Jun 24 21:17:21 2001
From: enecon at ozemail.com.au (Jim Bland)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NIST Guide to SI
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010624175723.0094ebd0@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <001c01c0fd14$4ec85920$0382140a@Jim>

To convert kJ/mol to kJ/kg you need to divide by the molecular weight and
multiply by 1000. So for methanol (CH3OH), the molecular weight is 32
(=12+3x1+16+1), and the enthalpy of vaporisation is 35.21/32 x 1000 = 1100
kJ/kg. To convert to imperial (impractical?) units, multiply by 0.430. So
the enthalpy of vaporisation for methanol is 1100 x 0.43 = 473 Btu/lb.

Regards,

Jim Bland

Enecon Pty. Ltd.
35 Whitehorse Rd., Deepdene VIC 3103, Australia
PO Box 555, Deepdene DC VIC 3103, Australia
Tel: +61-3-9817 6255
Fax: +61-3-9817 6455
www.enecon.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: GAS-L: NIST Guide to SI

>
> Enthalpy of vaporization of methanol = 35.21 (kJ/mol)
>
>
> What is a "value" for a "mol" ???
>
> Please read on folks ---
>
>
> At 03:58 PM 6/24/2001 EDT, you wrote:
> >>>>
> Hope some of you will find this guide informative and useful.
>
> NIST Guide for the Use of the International System of Units (SI)
>
> http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/contents.html
>
> Vernon Harris
> >>>>>>>>>>
>
> OK Vern -- funny you should be digging into this - so am I.
>
> Now I went over to nist to get a little extra info on the alcohols --
> ethanol and methanol.
>
> Let us take for example -- the latent heat of fusion figure.
>
> Under our older system -- but per pound per degree F
>
> Ethanol:
>
> Boils at 173 F and takes 204.3 btu for each pound to change state
>
> Methanol
>
> Boils at 147.7 and takes 262.8 btu for each pound to change state
>
> Now -- going over to nist -- specifically:
>
> http://webbook.nist.gov/chemistry/name-ser.htm
>
> Then enter methanol into the search field -- but first tag the properties
> you want to review -- and this is what we get:
>
> Enthalpy of vaporization (go way down to find this)
>
> (kJ/mol) = 35.21 at temp of 337.7 K
>
> OK -- 337.7 K = 148.190 F
>
> And that more or less "fits" with my old books.
>
> But what in "H" (pun intended) are kj/mol(s)??
>
> Well, kj is kilo jules -- no problems there -- but what is a "mol"
>
> Well further research finds this:
>
> Definitions of the Seven Basic SI Units
>
> metre [m]
> The metre is the basic unit of length. It is the distance light travels,
in
> a vacuum, in 1/299792458th of a second.
>
> kilogram [kg]
> The kilogram is the basic unit of mass. It is the mass of an international
> prototype in the form of a platinum-iridium cylinder kept at Sevres in
> France. It is now the only basic unit still defined in terms of a material
> object, and also the only one with a prefix[kilo] already in place.
>
> second [s]
> The second is the basic unit of time. It is the length of time taken for
> 9192631770 periods of vibration of the caesium-133 atom to occur.
>
> ampere [A]
> The ampere is the basic unit of electric current. It is that current which
> produces a specified force between two parallel wires which are 1 metre
> apart in a vacuum.It is named after the French physicist Andre Ampere
> (1775-1836).
>
> kelvin [K]
> The kelvin is the basic unit of temperature. It is 1/273.16th of the
> thermodynamic temperature of the triple point of water. It is named after
> the Scottish mathematician and physicist William Thomson 1st Lord Kelvin
> (1824-1907).
>
> mole [mol]
> The mole is the basic unit of substance. It is the amount of substance
that
> contains as many elementary units as there are atoms in 0.012 kg of
carbon-12.
>
> candela [cd]
> The candela is the basic unit of luminous intensity. It is the intensity
of
> a source of light of a specified frequency, which gives a specified amount
> of power in a given direction.
>
> ********************************
>
> Ok -- so we now have the definition of a "mol"
>
> But has anyone got a clue out there how to convert:
>
> Enthalpy of vaporization of methanol = 35.21 (kJ/mol)
>
>
> What is the value of a mol as referred to in this spec??
>
>
> Peter
>
> -
> Gasification List Archives:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>
> Gasification List Moderator:
> Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
> www.webpan.com/BEF
>
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> -
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> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>

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From snkm at btl.net Sun Jun 24 21:21:43 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NIST Guide to SI
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010624185246.009521d0@wgs1.btl.net>

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From snkm at btl.net Sun Jun 24 21:56:08 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NIST Guide to SI
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010624194404.00958360@wgs1.btl.net>

At 11:15 AM 6/25/2001 +1000, you wrote:
>To convert kJ/mol to kJ/kg you need to divide by the molecular weight and
>multiply by 1000. So for methanol (CH3OH), the molecular weight is 32
>(=12+3x1+16+1), and the enthalpy of vaporisation is 35.21/32 x 1000 = 1100
>kJ/kg. To convert to imperial (impractical?) units, multiply by 0.430. So
>the enthalpy of vaporisation for methanol is 1100 x 0.43 = 473 Btu/lb.
>
>Regards,
>
>Jim Bland

Jeez Jim -- I was trying to work in the mol wieght -- 32 -- but never could
have worked out this part you have just supplied:

35.21/32 x 1000 = 1100

Without that -- boy -- can't guess how long to figure it out! So thanks!!

My -- I'll never get over how easy everything is now with these there SI
units.

Here is some more conversion specs for those interested:

1 million microphones = 1 megaphone
2000 mockingbirds = two kilomockingbirds
10 cards = 1 decacards
1 millionth of a fish = 1 microfiche
453.6 graham crackers = 1 pound cake
1 trillion pins = 1 terrapin
10 rations = 1 decoration
100 rations = 1 C-ration
10 millipedes = 1 centipede
3 1/3 tridents = 1 decadent

AND EVEN MORE
2 monograms = 1 diagram
8 nickels = 2 paradigms
2 wharves = 1 paradox

Metric prefix humor (?) exa-ray exa-rated peta-cat tera-dactyl giga-low
tera-bull pico-nose deci-mate tera-piece-of-paper peta-greed tara-rism
pico-peach deca-cards atto-mobile micro-phone nano-pudding milli-mouse
milli-cent pico-card peta-gogue peta-ful pico-nick ba-nano pico-low
centi-mental exa-lint atto-miser milli-tent pico-boo atto-whack tera-pin
kilo-bug deca-ration centi-fold tera-torialism

and:

Here is one way to think of the metric and "English" systems. The metric
system is the metric island with an orderly set of towns and an orderly and
simple and fast road system. The "English" island has every town connected
as well as they can (by definitions) to other neighboring towns. The
"English" system of transportation is not too efficient.

There only has to be one good solid bridge (changeover definition) between
the two islands. You can get anywhere from one system to the other by first
coming to the bridge town, crossing, and then taking the new system to
wherever you want to go.

 

Peter / Belize

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From snkm at btl.net Sun Jun 24 22:30:34 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Converting from kj/mol to btu/lb
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010624202616.009529f0@wgs1.btl.net>

 

>To convert to imperial (impractical?) units, multiply by 0.430. So
>the enthalpy of vaporisation for methanol is 1100 x 0.43 = 473 Btu/lb.

No -- not "exactly" -- you forgot the conversion of "K" to "F"

473 * 5 = 2365 divided by 9 = 262.777 btu/lbm*F

My "book" calls it 262.8 btu/lbm*F

So close enough!

Thanks again Jim for showing the path to the enlightenment.

You know -- a searching of all those sites specializing in conversions --
not one had a clue regarding this.

How many besides Jim on this list knew??

How many other places besides "nist" uses such a screwy way to give heat
specs??

Jeez -- one would need better than a photographic memory to relate their
numbers -- substance to substance -- regarding "heat"

Seems like a really hard way to put data across.

Now -- where am I going to stick this gem of info so I don't lose it??

Peter / Belize

At 11:15 AM 6/25/2001 +1000, you wrote:
>To convert kJ/mol to kJ/kg you need to divide by the molecular weight and
>multiply by 1000. So for methanol (CH3OH), the molecular weight is 32
>(=12+3x1+16+1), and the enthalpy of vaporisation is 35.21/32 x 1000 = 1100
>kJ/kg. To convert to imperial (impractical?) units, multiply by 0.430. So
>the enthalpy of vaporisation for methanol is 1100 x 0.43 = 473 Btu/lb.
>
>Regards,
>
>Jim Bland
>
>Enecon Pty. Ltd.
>35 Whitehorse Rd., Deepdene VIC 3103, Australia
>PO Box 555, Deepdene DC VIC 3103, Australia
>Tel: +61-3-9817 6255
>Fax: +61-3-9817 6455
>www.enecon.com.au

>----- Original Message -----
>From: Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>
>To: <gasification@crest.org>
>Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 8:58 AM
>Subject: Re: GAS-L: NIST Guide to SI
>
>
>>
>> Enthalpy of vaporization of methanol = 35.21 (kJ/mol)
>>
>>
>> What is a "value" for a "mol" ???
>>
>> Please read on folks ---
>>
>>
>> At 03:58 PM 6/24/2001 EDT, you wrote:
>> >>>>
>> Hope some of you will find this guide informative and useful.
>>
>> NIST Guide for the Use of the International System of Units (SI)
>>
>> http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/contents.html
>>
>> Vernon Harris
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>
>> OK Vern -- funny you should be digging into this - so am I.
>>
>> Now I went over to nist to get a little extra info on the alcohols --
>> ethanol and methanol.
>>
>> Let us take for example -- the latent heat of fusion figure.
>>
>> Under our older system -- but per pound per degree F
>>
>> Ethanol:
>>
>> Boils at 173 F and takes 204.3 btu for each pound to change state
>>
>> Methanol
>>
>> Boils at 147.7 and takes 262.8 btu for each pound to change state
>>
>> Now -- going over to nist -- specifically:
>>
>> http://webbook.nist.gov/chemistry/name-ser.htm
>>
>> Then enter methanol into the search field -- but first tag the properties
>> you want to review -- and this is what we get:
>>
>> Enthalpy of vaporization (go way down to find this)
>>
>> (kJ/mol) = 35.21 at temp of 337.7 K
>>
>> OK -- 337.7 K = 148.190 F
>>
>> And that more or less "fits" with my old books.
>>
>> But what in "H" (pun intended) are kj/mol(s)??
>>
>> Well, kj is kilo jules -- no problems there -- but what is a "mol"
>>
>> Well further research finds this:
>>
>> Definitions of the Seven Basic SI Units
>>
>> metre [m]
>> The metre is the basic unit of length. It is the distance light travels,
>in
>> a vacuum, in 1/299792458th of a second.
>>
>> kilogram [kg]
>> The kilogram is the basic unit of mass. It is the mass of an international
>> prototype in the form of a platinum-iridium cylinder kept at Sevres in
>> France. It is now the only basic unit still defined in terms of a material
>> object, and also the only one with a prefix[kilo] already in place.
>>
>> second [s]
>> The second is the basic unit of time. It is the length of time taken for
>> 9192631770 periods of vibration of the caesium-133 atom to occur.
>>
>> ampere [A]
>> The ampere is the basic unit of electric current. It is that current which
>> produces a specified force between two parallel wires which are 1 metre
>> apart in a vacuum.It is named after the French physicist Andre Ampere
>> (1775-1836).
>>
>> kelvin [K]
>> The kelvin is the basic unit of temperature. It is 1/273.16th of the
>> thermodynamic temperature of the triple point of water. It is named after
>> the Scottish mathematician and physicist William Thomson 1st Lord Kelvin
>> (1824-1907).
>>
>> mole [mol]
>> The mole is the basic unit of substance. It is the amount of substance
>that
>> contains as many elementary units as there are atoms in 0.012 kg of
>carbon-12.
>>
>> candela [cd]
>> The candela is the basic unit of luminous intensity. It is the intensity
>of
>> a source of light of a specified frequency, which gives a specified amount
>> of power in a given direction.
>>
>> ********************************
>>
>> Ok -- so we now have the definition of a "mol"
>>
>> But has anyone got a clue out there how to convert:
>>
>> Enthalpy of vaporization of methanol = 35.21 (kJ/mol)
>>
>>
>> What is the value of a mol as referred to in this spec??
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> -
>> Gasification List Archives:
>> http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>>
>> Gasification List Moderator:
>> Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
>> www.webpan.com/BEF
>>
>> Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
>> -
>> Other Gasification Events and Information:
>> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
>> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>>
>
>

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Gasification List Moderator:
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www.webpan.com/BEF

Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
-
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http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From enecon at ozemail.com.au Mon Jun 25 00:07:42 2001
From: enecon at ozemail.com.au (Jim Bland)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Converting from kj/mol to btu/lb
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010624202616.009529f0@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <003801c0fd2c$195a23a0$0382140a@Jim>

Peter,

The conversion from K to F is irrelevant. I stand by my conversion. The
units for enthalpy of vaporisation are energy/unit mass or energy/mol, e.g.
kJ/kg, kJ/mol, kcal/kg, Btu/lb. Temperature does not enter the discussion.

The most common property involving energy/(unit mass and unit temperature)
is heat capacity. This has units of kJ/kg K, Btu/lb °F etc.

Are you sure "your book" is showing 262.8 Btu/lb °F for the enthalpy of
vaporisation???????

Regards,

Jim

Enecon Pty. Ltd.
35 Whitehorse Rd., Deepdene VIC 3103, Australia
PO Box 555, Deepdene DC VIC 3103, Australia
Tel: +61-3-9817 6255
Fax: +61-3-9817 6455
www.enecon.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 11:27 AM
Subject: GAS-L: Converting from kj/mol to btu/lb

>
> >To convert to imperial (impractical?) units, multiply by 0.430. So
> >the enthalpy of vaporisation for methanol is 1100 x 0.43 = 473 Btu/lb.
>
> No -- not "exactly" -- you forgot the conversion of "K" to "F"
>
> 473 * 5 = 2365 divided by 9 = 262.777 btu/lbm*F
>
> My "book" calls it 262.8 btu/lbm*F
>
> So close enough!
>
> Thanks again Jim for showing the path to the enlightenment.
>
> You know -- a searching of all those sites specializing in conversions --
> not one had a clue regarding this.
>
> How many besides Jim on this list knew??
>
> How many other places besides "nist" uses such a screwy way to give heat
> specs??
>
> Jeez -- one would need better than a photographic memory to relate their
> numbers -- substance to substance -- regarding "heat"
>
> Seems like a really hard way to put data across.
>
> Now -- where am I going to stick this gem of info so I don't lose it??
>
> Peter / Belize
>
>
> At 11:15 AM 6/25/2001 +1000, you wrote:
> >To convert kJ/mol to kJ/kg you need to divide by the molecular weight and
> >multiply by 1000. So for methanol (CH3OH), the molecular weight is 32
> >(=12+3x1+16+1), and the enthalpy of vaporisation is 35.21/32 x 1000 =
1100
> >kJ/kg. To convert to imperial (impractical?) units, multiply by 0.430.
So
> >the enthalpy of vaporisation for methanol is 1100 x 0.43 = 473 Btu/lb.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Jim Bland
> >
> >Enecon Pty. Ltd.
> >35 Whitehorse Rd., Deepdene VIC 3103, Australia
> >PO Box 555, Deepdene DC VIC 3103, Australia
> >Tel: +61-3-9817 6255
> >Fax: +61-3-9817 6455
> >www.enecon.com.au
>
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>
> >To: <gasification@crest.org>
> >Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 8:58 AM
> >Subject: Re: GAS-L: NIST Guide to SI
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Enthalpy of vaporization of methanol = 35.21 (kJ/mol)
> >>
> >>
> >> What is a "value" for a "mol" ???
> >>
> >> Please read on folks ---
> >>
> >>
> >> At 03:58 PM 6/24/2001 EDT, you wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> Hope some of you will find this guide informative and useful.
> >>
> >> NIST Guide for the Use of the International System of Units (SI)
> >>
> >> http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/contents.html
> >>
> >> Vernon Harris
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>
> >> OK Vern -- funny you should be digging into this - so am I.
> >>
> >> Now I went over to nist to get a little extra info on the alcohols --
> >> ethanol and methanol.
> >>
> >> Let us take for example -- the latent heat of fusion figure.
> >>
> >> Under our older system -- but per pound per degree F
> >>
> >> Ethanol:
> >>
> >> Boils at 173 F and takes 204.3 btu for each pound to change state
> >>
> >> Methanol
> >>
> >> Boils at 147.7 and takes 262.8 btu for each pound to change state
> >>
> >> Now -- going over to nist -- specifically:
> >>
> >> http://webbook.nist.gov/chemistry/name-ser.htm
> >>
> >> Then enter methanol into the search field -- but first tag the
properties
> >> you want to review -- and this is what we get:
> >>
> >> Enthalpy of vaporization (go way down to find this)
> >>
> >> (kJ/mol) = 35.21 at temp of 337.7 K
> >>
> >> OK -- 337.7 K = 148.190 F
> >>
> >> And that more or less "fits" with my old books.
> >>
> >> But what in "H" (pun intended) are kj/mol(s)??
> >>
> >> Well, kj is kilo jules -- no problems there -- but what is a "mol"
> >>
> >> Well further research finds this:
> >>
> >> Definitions of the Seven Basic SI Units
> >>
> >> metre [m]
> >> The metre is the basic unit of length. It is the distance light
travels,
> >in
> >> a vacuum, in 1/299792458th of a second.
> >>
> >> kilogram [kg]
> >> The kilogram is the basic unit of mass. It is the mass of an
international
> >> prototype in the form of a platinum-iridium cylinder kept at Sevres in
> >> France. It is now the only basic unit still defined in terms of a
material
> >> object, and also the only one with a prefix[kilo] already in place.
> >>
> >> second [s]
> >> The second is the basic unit of time. It is the length of time taken
for
> >> 9192631770 periods of vibration of the caesium-133 atom to occur.
> >>
> >> ampere [A]
> >> The ampere is the basic unit of electric current. It is that current
which
> >> produces a specified force between two parallel wires which are 1 metre
> >> apart in a vacuum.It is named after the French physicist Andre Ampere
> >> (1775-1836).
> >>
> >> kelvin [K]
> >> The kelvin is the basic unit of temperature. It is 1/273.16th of the
> >> thermodynamic temperature of the triple point of water. It is named
after
> >> the Scottish mathematician and physicist William Thomson 1st Lord
Kelvin
> >> (1824-1907).
> >>
> >> mole [mol]
> >> The mole is the basic unit of substance. It is the amount of substance
> >that
> >> contains as many elementary units as there are atoms in 0.012 kg of
> >carbon-12.
> >>
> >> candela [cd]
> >> The candela is the basic unit of luminous intensity. It is the
intensity
> >of
> >> a source of light of a specified frequency, which gives a specified
amount
> >> of power in a given direction.
> >>
> >> ********************************
> >>
> >> Ok -- so we now have the definition of a "mol"
> >>
> >> But has anyone got a clue out there how to convert:
> >>
> >> Enthalpy of vaporization of methanol = 35.21 (kJ/mol)
> >>
> >>
> >> What is the value of a mol as referred to in this spec??
> >>
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> -
> >> Gasification List Archives:
> >> http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
> >>
> >> Gasification List Moderator:
> >> Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
> >> www.webpan.com/BEF
> >>
> >> Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> >> -
> >> Other Gasification Events and Information:
> >> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> >> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> >> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> >>
> >
> >
>
> -
> Gasification List Archives:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>
> Gasification List Moderator:
> Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
> www.webpan.com/BEF
>
> Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Gasification Events and Information:
> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>

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Gasification List Archives:
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Gasification List Moderator:
Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
www.webpan.com/BEF

Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
-
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http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From snkm at btl.net Mon Jun 25 09:54:11 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: That small Wartsila --
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010625074335.00958b40@wgs1.btl.net>

 

"the older models ran on crude-oil"

From:

http://kl_bulldog.homestead.com/notes.htm

The Lanz Bulldog, a German built single cylinder 2 cycle two stoke
tractor. The Lanz, most commonly known for it's unique sound, it was
built right through the early nineteen hundreds to the early nineteen
fifty's when John Deere bought Lanz out. Lanz stayed in business for
a few more years but all the models were labeled John Deere Lanz and
most were painted green. These were not the only changes John Deere
made, the new models had a starter motor and started on a fifty-fifty
mix of petrol and diesel where as the older models ran on crude-oil.
The crude oil Bulldogs started by a petrol lamp (gas used these days)
being placed under the hot bowl and letting the Fuel heat. The Lanz's
were exported all over the world and today have become one of the
tractor-enthusiasts favorites with big dollars being paid even for
wrecks.

***********************************

Peter Singfield / Belize

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Gasification List Moderator:
Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
www.webpan.com/BEF

Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
-
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From snkm at btl.net Mon Jun 25 09:55:40 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Converting from kj/mol to btu/lb
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010625075013.0095f100@wgs1.btl.net>

At 02:05 PM 6/25/2001 +1000, you wrote:
>Peter,
>
>The conversion from K to F is irrelevant. I stand by my conversion. The
>units for enthalpy of vaporisation are energy/unit mass or energy/mol, e.g.
>kJ/kg, kJ/mol, kcal/kg, Btu/lb. Temperature does not enter the discussion.
>
>The most common property involving energy/(unit mass and unit temperature)
>is heat capacity. This has units of kJ/kg K, Btu/lb °F etc.
>
>Are you sure "your book" is showing 262.8 Btu/lb °F for the enthalpy of
>vaporisation???????
>
>Regards,
>
>Jim
>

Your absolutely right Jim. My book is not saying 262.8 btu/lb for enthalpy
of vaporisation -- but rather for latent heat of vapourization.

Big difference. Also -- there is no degress of temperature factor involved.
Just the amount of heat required to phase change.

And what a coincidence that those number should match!

But what is important -- is that conversion formula you supplied.

Peter

>
>Enecon Pty. Ltd.
>35 Whitehorse Rd., Deepdene VIC 3103, Australia
>PO Box 555, Deepdene DC VIC 3103, Australia
>Tel: +61-3-9817 6255
>Fax: +61-3-9817 6455
>www.enecon.com.au
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>
>To: <gasification@crest.org>
>Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 11:27 AM
>Subject: GAS-L: Converting from kj/mol to btu/lb
>
>
>>
>> >To convert to imperial (impractical?) units, multiply by 0.430. So
>> >the enthalpy of vaporisation for methanol is 1100 x 0.43 = 473 Btu/lb.
>>
>> No -- not "exactly" -- you forgot the conversion of "K" to "F"
>>
>> 473 * 5 = 2365 divided by 9 = 262.777 btu/lbm*F
>>
>> My "book" calls it 262.8 btu/lbm*F
>>
>> So close enough!
>>
>> Thanks again Jim for showing the path to the enlightenment.
>>
>> You know -- a searching of all those sites specializing in conversions --
>> not one had a clue regarding this.
>>
>> How many besides Jim on this list knew??
>>
>> How many other places besides "nist" uses such a screwy way to give heat
>> specs??
>>
>> Jeez -- one would need better than a photographic memory to relate their
>> numbers -- substance to substance -- regarding "heat"
>>
>> Seems like a really hard way to put data across.
>>
>> Now -- where am I going to stick this gem of info so I don't lose it??
>>
>> Peter / Belize
>>
>>
>> At 11:15 AM 6/25/2001 +1000, you wrote:
>> >To convert kJ/mol to kJ/kg you need to divide by the molecular weight and
>> >multiply by 1000. So for methanol (CH3OH), the molecular weight is 32
>> >(=12+3x1+16+1), and the enthalpy of vaporisation is 35.21/32 x 1000 =
>1100
>> >kJ/kg. To convert to imperial (impractical?) units, multiply by 0.430.
>So
>> >the enthalpy of vaporisation for methanol is 1100 x 0.43 = 473 Btu/lb.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >
>> >Jim Bland

-
Gasification List Archives:
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Gasification List Moderator:
Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
www.webpan.com/BEF

Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
-
Other Gasification Events and Information:
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http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From enecon at ozemail.com.au Mon Jun 25 19:50:30 2001
From: enecon at ozemail.com.au (Jim Bland)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Converting from kj/mol to btu/lb
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010625075013.0095f100@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <001301c0fdd1$56feb860$0382140a@Jim>

Peter,

Latent heat of vaporisation and enthalpy of vaporisation are the same thing.

Regards,

Jim

Enecon Pty. Ltd.
35 Whitehorse Rd., Deepdene VIC 3103, Australia
PO Box 555, Deepdene DC VIC 3103, Australia
Tel: +61-3-9817 6255
Fax: +61-3-9817 6455
www.enecon.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: GAS-L: Converting from kj/mol to btu/lb

At 02:05 PM 6/25/2001 +1000, you wrote:
>Peter,
>
>The conversion from K to F is irrelevant. I stand by my conversion. The
>units for enthalpy of vaporisation are energy/unit mass or energy/mol, e.g.
>kJ/kg, kJ/mol, kcal/kg, Btu/lb. Temperature does not enter the discussion.
>
>The most common property involving energy/(unit mass and unit temperature)
>is heat capacity. This has units of kJ/kg K, Btu/lb °F etc.
>
>Are you sure "your book" is showing 262.8 Btu/lb °F for the enthalpy of
>vaporisation???????
>
>Regards,
>
>Jim
>

Your absolutely right Jim. My book is not saying 262.8 btu/lb for enthalpy
of vaporisation -- but rather for latent heat of vapourization.

Big difference. Also -- there is no degress of temperature factor involved.
Just the amount of heat required to phase change.

And what a coincidence that those number should match!

But what is important -- is that conversion formula you supplied.

Peter

 

-
Gasification List Archives:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/

Gasification List Moderator:
Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
www.webpan.com/BEF

Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
-
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http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

From snkm at btl.net Mon Jun 25 21:29:31 2001
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Converting from kj/mol to btu/lb
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010625191202.008f8cf0@wgs1.btl.net>

At 09:48 AM 6/26/2001 +1000, you wrote:
>Peter,
>
>Latent heat of vaporisation and enthalpy of vaporisation are the same thing.
>
>Regards,
>
>Jim

I was originally under that impression as well -- but when the numbers did
not agree -- figured they may be adding in the specific heat from a set
point -- such as 0 C

but going back to that book -- and rigging up two sets of reading glasses
to make up a binoculars -- noticed that the 262.8 is (in very fine print)
"g-cal per g" -- which converts to 473 btu/lb

Which is what you were telling me from the beginning -- re:

> >To convert to imperial (impractical?) units, multiply by 0.430. So
> >the enthalpy of vaporisation for methanol is 1100 x 0.43 = 473 Btu/lb.

By the way folks -- making binocular reading glasses with two regular
reading glasses works great!

The first pair are 2X -- full size.

I slip a second pair of 2X half profile reading glasses over this. Leaving
about 1/2 in of space between each. Now I have telescopic bifocals! The two
interlock well.

2X for the computer screen over the top -- and 4x when I look down -- at
the key board -- or at the fine text in that book (1974 Eshbach)

What is interesting -- getting at least 14 in. of focused view at 4X

These plastic reading glasses sell for $5.00 here -- so a $10.00 "fix" for
my aging eyes.

Hey, I'm able to read chip numbers gain without using a magnifying glass
eye-piece!

Learn something new everyday.

Peter / Belize

>
>Enecon Pty. Ltd.
>35 Whitehorse Rd., Deepdene VIC 3103, Australia
>PO Box 555, Deepdene DC VIC 3103, Australia
>Tel: +61-3-9817 6255
>Fax: +61-3-9817 6455
>www.enecon.com.au
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>
>To: <gasification@crest.org>
>Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 10:51 PM
>Subject: Re: GAS-L: Converting from kj/mol to btu/lb
>
>
>At 02:05 PM 6/25/2001 +1000, you wrote:
>>Peter,
>>
>>The conversion from K to F is irrelevant. I stand by my conversion. The
>>units for enthalpy of vaporisation are energy/unit mass or energy/mol, e.g.
>>kJ/kg, kJ/mol, kcal/kg, Btu/lb. Temperature does not enter the discussion.
>>
>>The most common property involving energy/(unit mass and unit temperature)
>>is heat capacity. This has units of kJ/kg K, Btu/lb °F etc.
>>
>>Are you sure "your book" is showing 262.8 Btu/lb °F for the enthalpy of
>>vaporisation???????
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Jim
>>
>
>
>Your absolutely right Jim. My book is not saying 262.8 btu/lb for enthalpy
>of vaporisation -- but rather for latent heat of vapourization.
>
>Big difference. Also -- there is no degress of temperature factor involved.
>Just the amount of heat required to phase change.
>
>And what a coincidence that those number should match!
>
>But what is important -- is that conversion formula you supplied.
>
>Peter
>
>
>
>-
>Gasification List Archives:
>http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>
>Gasification List Moderator:
>Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
>www.webpan.com/BEF
>
>Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
>-
>Other Gasification Events and Information:
>http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>
>
TelescopicBi-focals.jpg

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From jmdavies at xsinet.co.za Tue Jun 26 07:51:41 2001
From: jmdavies at xsinet.co.za (John Davies)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NIST Guide to SI
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010624185246.009521d0@wgs1.btl.net>
Message-ID: <001c01c0fe35$cdc78260$79d4ef9b@p>

Hi Peter,

Try downloading the steam cycle calculator at, www.greenhills.net/~apatter
Follow the links to steam cars, rankine cycle etc,

One thing to note that pressures are absolute. It can be used to glean all
sorts of information, in different units.
Good Luck,
John Davies.

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Singfield <snkm@btl.net>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: GAS-L: NIST Guide to SI

> At 08:41 PM 6/24/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >does anybody have a database of some sort where one can find temp in fah
for
> >any pressure of steam, thx
>

 

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From RKopper at volcafe.co.cr Fri Jun 29 11:58:45 2001
From: RKopper at volcafe.co.cr (Roberto Kopper)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: RV: CO2 / Oxygen Sensors
Message-ID: <71797986472CD611AFC200508B44020D0E9ECB@volca_bdc.voc>

 

<SPAN
class=710342814-29062001>Hello everyone. 
I
am very honored to have the visit of Tom Reed in our country for a few
days. 
<SPAN
class=710342814-29062001> 
We
mentioned using the O2 sensors for controlling the CO2 level at the
gasifyer.
I
have 25 combustion kilns for heating coffee dryers burning biomass.  Does
anyone have experience on using this sensors with kilns?  How should they
be installed?  PLC´s ??
<SPAN
class=710342814-29062001>Ideas on how to optimize the combustion and have the
correct excess air ratio?
<SPAN
class=710342814-29062001>thank you
<SPAN
class=710342814-29062001>Roberto Kopper

Kopper, Roberto (E-mail).vcf
logo_klein21.GIF

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From english at adan.kingston.net Fri Jun 29 21:36:31 2001
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: RV: CO2 / Oxygen Sensors
In-Reply-To: <71797986472CD611AFC200508B44020D0E9ECB@volca_bdc.voc>
Message-ID: <200106300134.VAA17018@adan.kingston.net>

Hello Roberto,
My interest in this was re-ignited by a few messages from Mr A. Kaupp
a few weeks ago. I purchased a zirconium oxide sensor built for a
car and tested it with a propane burner and our oil fired boilers.
This type has four wires, two for the sensor and two for a twelve
volt heater. This makes it useful for monitoring cooled stack gases.
The sensors output was very stable and correlated well with excess
air for these burners.

I have started learning to use a programable logic controller. It Is
my intention to adapt this for use with some larger versions of Tom
Reed's Top Lit Pyrolyser. The burners I have used work well with
low excess air (3-10% O2) so I am hopeful that this will be a
successful experiment.

In the spirit of these mailing lists, I would be pleased to share the
results as they develop.

Do you monitor stack gases on your kilns now?

Alex English

> Hello everyone.
> I am very honored to have the visit of Tom Reed in our country for a few
> days.
>
> We mentioned using the O2 sensors for controlling the CO2 level at the
> gasifyer.
> I have 25 combustion kilns for heating coffee dryers burning biomass. Does
> anyone have experience on using this sensors with kilns? How should they be
> installed? PLC's ??
> Ideas on how to optimize the combustion and have the correct excess air
> ratio?
> thank you
> Roberto Kopper
>
>
>
Alex English
RR 2 Odessa Ontario
Canada K0H 2H0
Tel 1-613-386-1927
Fax 1-613-386-1211

 

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www.webpan.com/BEF

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From newsgroup at kaupp.net Fri Jun 29 23:50:57 2001
From: newsgroup at kaupp.net (Kaupp)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: RV: CO2 / Oxygen Sensors
In-Reply-To: <200106300134.VAA17018@adan.kingston.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBJGKCDMKFPFGODDJPIEAHCFAA.newsgroup@kaupp.net>

Hi,
Bosch manufacturers this sensor as a special make for combustion systems
with a slightly changed heating element that improves the asymptotic
behaviour of the mv signal at high O2 values( >10 %). The type number is
LSM 11. The BOSCH part number is 0258 104 002. All technical sensor
specifications are with me in cae somebody needs it.The sensor should be
installed in a VERTICAL position with the wires pointing upwards since the
wires are the channels for the refernce ambient air. Vertical position is
important because CONDENSATE KILLS THE SENSOR. Also vanadium oxydes are very
bad for the sensor(short circuits the kathode and anode). Therefore watch
out for heavy fuel oils with high ppm vanadium. The sensor costs exactly
German Mark 376 in in Germany . There is a complete signalconditioning and
display kit available called LA2. Don't know the price .Will know in a
week.We are presently running extensive lab test on the sensor to check on
sensitivity with respect to DC Voltage input change.

Albrecht Kaupp
Senior Advisor
Indo-German Energy Efficiency and Environment Project, IGEEP
21 Jor Bagh, New Delhi 110 003, India
Tel +91-11-4603832-6 or +91-11-6864867 to 68
Fax +91-11-4603831 or +1-801-340-7905 (USA)
email: ali@kaupp.net

-----Original Message-----
From: *.English [mailto:english@adan.kingston.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 8:03 AM
To: Roberto Kopper
Cc: Gasification@crest.org
Subject: Re: GAS-L: RV: CO2 / Oxygen Sensors

Hello Roberto,
My interest in this was re-ignited by a few messages from Mr A. Kaupp
a few weeks ago. I purchased a zirconium oxide sensor built for a
car and tested it with a propane burner and our oil fired boilers.
This type has four wires, two for the sensor and two for a twelve
volt heater. This makes it useful for monitoring cooled stack gases.
The sensors output was very stable and correlated well with excess
air for these burners.

I have started learning to use a programable logic controller. It Is
my intention to adapt this for use with some larger versions of Tom
Reed's Top Lit Pyrolyser. The burners I have used work well with
low excess air (3-10% O2) so I am hopeful that this will be a
successful experiment.

In the spirit of these mailing lists, I would be pleased to share the
results as they develop.

Do you monitor stack gases on your kilns now?

Alex English

> Hello everyone.
> I am very honored to have the visit of Tom Reed in our country for a few
> days.
>
> We mentioned using the O2 sensors for controlling the CO2 level at the
> gasifyer.
> I have 25 combustion kilns for heating coffee dryers burning biomass.
Does
> anyone have experience on using this sensors with kilns? How should they
be
> installed? PLC's ??
> Ideas on how to optimize the combustion and have the correct excess air
> ratio?
> thank you
> Roberto Kopper
>
>
>
Alex English
RR 2 Odessa Ontario
Canada K0H 2H0
Tel 1-613-386-1927
Fax 1-613-386-1211

 

-
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www.webpan.com/BEF

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-
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http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

 

-
Gasification List Archives:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/

Gasification List Moderator:
Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
www.webpan.com/BEF

Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
-
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From thomas at biopilze.de Sat Jun 30 02:05:00 2001
From: thomas at biopilze.de (Thomas Ziegler)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:09:27 2004
Subject: GAS-L: RV: CO2 / Oxygen Sensors
In-Reply-To: <NDBBJGKCDMKFPFGODDJPIEAHCFAA.newsgroup@kaupp.net>
Message-ID: <3B3D6741.3F2120B8@biopilze.de>

may i help you with inquiries -are maybe more efficicient and cheaper
started from over here!?
am interested to put all usefull data to http://back.to/woodgas , thomas

Kaupp schrieb:
>
> Hi,
> Bosch manufacturers this sensor as a special make for combustion systems
> with a slightly changed heating element that improves the asymptotic
> behaviour of the mv signal at high O2 values( >10 %). The type number is
> LSM 11. The BOSCH part number is 0258 104 002. All technical sensor
> specifications are with me in cae somebody needs it.The sensor should be
> installed in a VERTICAL position with the wires pointing upwards since the
> wires are the channels for the refernce ambient air. Vertical position is
> important because CONDENSATE KILLS THE SENSOR. Also vanadium oxydes are very
> bad for the sensor(short circuits the kathode and anode). Therefore watch
> out for heavy fuel oils with high ppm vanadium. The sensor costs exactly
> German Mark 376 in in Germany . There is a complete signalconditioning and
> display kit available called LA2. Don't know the price .Will know in a
> week.We are presently running extensive lab test on the sensor to check on
> sensitivity with respect to DC Voltage input change.
>
> Albrecht Kaupp
> Senior Advisor
> Indo-German Energy Efficiency and Environment Project, IGEEP
> 21 Jor Bagh, New Delhi 110 003, India
> Tel +91-11-4603832-6 or +91-11-6864867 to 68
> Fax +91-11-4603831 or +1-801-340-7905 (USA)
> email: ali@kaupp.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: *.English [mailto:english@adan.kingston.net]
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 8:03 AM
> To: Roberto Kopper
> Cc: Gasification@crest.org
> Subject: Re: GAS-L: RV: CO2 / Oxygen Sensors
>
> Hello Roberto,
> My interest in this was re-ignited by a few messages from Mr A. Kaupp
> a few weeks ago. I purchased a zirconium oxide sensor built for a
> car and tested it with a propane burner and our oil fired boilers.
> This type has four wires, two for the sensor and two for a twelve
> volt heater. This makes it useful for monitoring cooled stack gases.
> The sensors output was very stable and correlated well with excess
> air for these burners.
>
> I have started learning to use a programable logic controller. It Is
> my intention to adapt this for use with some larger versions of Tom
> Reed's Top Lit Pyrolyser. The burners I have used work well with
> low excess air (3-10% O2) so I am hopeful that this will be a
> successful experiment.
>
> In the spirit of these mailing lists, I would be pleased to share the
> results as they develop.
>
> Do you monitor stack gases on your kilns now?
>
> Alex English
>
> > Hello everyone.
> > I am very honored to have the visit of Tom Reed in our country for a few
> > days.
> >
> > We mentioned using the O2 sensors for controlling the CO2 level at the
> > gasifyer.
> > I have 25 combustion kilns for heating coffee dryers burning biomass.
> Does
> > anyone have experience on using this sensors with kilns? How should they
> be
> > installed? PLC's ??
> > Ideas on how to optimize the combustion and have the correct excess air
> > ratio?
> > thank you
> > Roberto Kopper
> >
> >
> >
> Alex English
> RR 2 Odessa Ontario
> Canada K0H 2H0
> Tel 1-613-386-1927
> Fax 1-613-386-1211
>
> -
> Gasification List Archives:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>
> Gasification List Moderator:
> Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
> www.webpan.com/BEF
>
> Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Gasification Events and Information:
> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>
> -
> Gasification List Archives:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/
>
> Gasification List Moderator:
> Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
> www.webpan.com/BEF
>
> Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Gasification Events and Information:
> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/

--
der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \
the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm
le petit eco - champignoneur allemand /

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