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July 2002 Gasification Archive

For more messages see our 1996-2004 Gasification Discussion List Archives.

From claush at et.dtu.dk Tue Jul 2 12:07:39 2002
From: claush at et.dtu.dk (Claus Hindsgaul)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:10:02 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NOx and gasifiers
In-Reply-To: <002001c21af4$d2ebb400$a081e2d1@hp>
Message-ID: <1025626162.2390.131.camel@ip7071120>

Thank you for a lot of interesting input.

I have ordered some of the very interesting papers that Peacocke pointed
to.

I have been asked about more details on our gasifier. A short
description is available at
http://www.et.dtu.dk/halmfortet/research/twostage/ . The fuel currently
used is wood chips.

tir, 2002-06-25 kl. 18:39 skrev Tami Bond:
> I agree... what is gasification temperature? 'Thermal' NOx isn't
> significant for temperatures below about 1400 C.

Our high temperature tar cracking zone has small hot spots up to approx.
1400C (measured by IR equipment) near the air nozzles. This should still
keep us below the NOx forming limit.

As many of you pointed out it is unlikely that woodgas would generally
contain serious amounts of NOx. The potential problem appear during
combustion. Will NH3 or HCN act as NOx precursors in wood gas? Or does
it actually *prevent* NOx from forming? (NH3 addition is used in some
boilers in order to decrease NOx emmisions)

The engine tests I refered to were based on *synthetic* woodgas
consisting of the *pure* gas components: H2, N2, CO, CH2, CH4 (no
particles, ammonia or steam). While NOx levels for lambda>1 peaked at
3300 mg/Nm3 when fueled by natural gas, it did not exceed 1000 mg/Nm3
when fueled by synthetic woodgas.
A few NOx measurements have been made in the exhaust from an IC engine
fueled by real gas from the two stage gasifier. They did not exceed 400
mg/Nm3 NOx.

So the NOx problem from woodgas fueled engines *appear* to be small or
non­existent.
In my prior posting I pointed out some contracting observations. I would
therefore like a little more evidence before concluding that NH3 does no
harm and can be safely left in the gas.

Claus

--
Research Assistant M. Sc. Claus Hindsgaul
MEK, DTU, Building 120 - DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark
Phone: (+45) 4525 4174 - FAX: (+45) 4593 5761
claush@mek.dtu.dk, http://www.et.dtu.dk/Halmfortet

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From thomas_milne at nrel.gov Tue Jul 2 15:29:01 2002
From: thomas_milne at nrel.gov (Milne, Thomas)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:10:02 2004
Subject: GAS-L: FW: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address
Message-ID: <5AFEAEA167118F4E971015C97D6279A3460E80@nt-comm3.nrel.gov>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Milne, Thomas
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 12:37 PM
> To: Milne, Thomas; 'gasification@crest.org'; 'stoves@crest.org';
> 'bioenergy@crest.org'
> Subject: RE: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Milne, Thomas
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 11:27 AM
> To: 'gasification@crest.org'; 'stoves@crest.org'; 'bioenergy@crest.org';
> 'hydrogen@pete.URI.edu'
> Subject: FW: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address
>
> Interested parties may access our recent IEA report, "Hydrogen from
> Biomass--State of the Art and Research Challenges", at the WEB address
> listed below. The authors would welcome corrections or additions to
> references, as a supplement for Year 2002 is planned.
>
> Tom Milne, Carolyn Elam and
> Robert Evans.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elam, Carolyn
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:10 AM
> To: Milne, Thomas
> Subject: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address
>
> http://www.eren.doe.gov/hydrogen/iea/pdfs/hydrogen_biomass.pdf

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From jdr1203 at uol.com.br Tue Jul 2 20:10:01 2002
From: jdr1203 at uol.com.br (Rocha)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:10:02 2004
Subject: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address
In-Reply-To: <5AFEAEA167118F4E971015C97D6279A3460E80@nt-comm3.nrel.gov>
Message-ID: <002f01c22225$d1c0c100$8257fea9@0013599973>

Dear Tom,

I printed a copy of the report for me. Congratulations for you Carolyn and
Bob it's a very good document. I also sent a copy to the Brazilian Hydrogen
Center, CENEH, at University of Campinas in Brazil.

Regards to all friends at NREL, I miss that time I spent of there.

José Dilcio Rocha
NIPE/UNICAMP
Brazil

-----Mensagem Original-----
De: "Milne, Thomas" <thomas_milne@nrel.gov>
Para: <gasification@crest.org>; <stoves@crest.org>; <bioenergy@crest.org>
Enviada em: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 4:29 PM
Assunto: FW: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address

>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Milne, Thomas
> > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 12:37 PM
> > To: Milne, Thomas; 'gasification@crest.org'; 'stoves@crest.org';
> > 'bioenergy@crest.org'
> > Subject: RE: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Milne, Thomas
> > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 11:27 AM
> > To: 'gasification@crest.org'; 'stoves@crest.org'; 'bioenergy@crest.org';
> > 'hydrogen@pete.URI.edu'
> > Subject: FW: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address
> >
> > Interested parties may access our recent IEA report, "Hydrogen from
> > Biomass--State of the Art and Research Challenges", at the WEB address
> > listed below. The authors would welcome corrections or additions to
> > references, as a supplement for Year 2002 is planned.
> >
> > Tom Milne, Carolyn Elam and
> > Robert Evans.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Elam, Carolyn
> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:10 AM
> > To: Milne, Thomas
> > Subject: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address
> >
> > http://www.eren.doe.gov/hydrogen/iea/pdfs/hydrogen_biomass.pdf
>
> -
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>
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>

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From jean-henry.ferrasse at univ.u-3mrs.fr Fri Jul 5 02:11:50 2002
From: jean-henry.ferrasse at univ.u-3mrs.fr (Jean-henry Ferrasse)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:10:02 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NOx and gasifiers
Message-ID: <002d01c223eb$c0fd2ee0$083310ac@u3mrs.fr>

 

 
Hello all, I'm beginning a work on sludge gasification in
a french university.So I'm very interested by this kind of particular
system and article too =(by the way I couldn't find a lot of articles about
hyperion and =gasification). There is a point that I'd like to
get  for biomass : For combustion the air ratio to one kg of dry
biomass is up to x For combustion of the gas produced after
gasification the air ratio to =one kg of dry biomass is about
y. So I'd like to get an order of magnitude for x and y
? Is this ratio a clue to make a difference between gasification
and =combustion for biomass?PS : For efficient  sludge's dryers
, it seems that there are concrete =solutions
nowadays.--Jean-Henry

From pequeno at teleport.com Mon Jul 15 11:19:16 2002
From: pequeno at teleport.com (Brian J. Underhill)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:10:03 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Wood Burning Cars in WWII France
Message-ID: <MABBIKOLBGKABDBFDFHFKEHCCJAA.pequeno@teleport.com>

Greetings all,

I'm an author and game designer working with Steve Jackson Games on a
roleplaying sourcebook for WWII France entitled RETURN TO HONOR
(http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/ww2/returntohonor/).

In the course of the project, I'm trying to find information on the old
wood-burning civilian cars found largely in the Occupation zone (and
elsewhere at times). Any information you might be able to provide, or
sources you could point me to, would be very helpful.

Specifically, I'm interested in things like:

How much additional weight did a wood-burning contraption add?

What kind of mileage (fuel economy) did a wood-burning vehicle get (i.e.,
how many pounds/kilos of wood per mile/km)?

Could a wood-burning unit be added to just any car? Were some cars better
suited to it than others?

Was wet or dry wood better? How small did it have to be to burn? Chunks,
sticks, twigs, chips?

How difficult was it to build such a unit from scratch? What kind of
skills/tools were needed?

While the book deals specifically with France in WWII, *any* information on
wood-burning vehicles will be helpful. I can't imagine that wood-burners in
other parts of the world were that much different from those in France. It
is, however, important that the material be specific to the 1940s.

Thanks in advance. Hope to hear from someone soon. :)

Brian

 

--
Brian J. Underhill
pequeno@teleport.com
brian@brianunderhill.com
http://www.brianunderhill.com/
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/ww2/returntohonor/
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/cliffhangers/
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/heroes1/
--
"These days I'm feelin' alright, 'cept I
can't tell my courage from my desperation."
- Local Hero, Bruce Springsteen

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Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
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From tmiles at trmiles.com Mon Jul 15 18:32:30 2002
From: tmiles at trmiles.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:10:03 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Wood Burning Cars in WWII France
In-Reply-To: <MABBIKOLBGKABDBFDFHFKEHCCJAA.pequeno@teleport.com>
Message-ID: <016701c22c70$f840a2a0$6501a8c0@tommain>

Brian,

Interesting project. Some people on the list should have some historical
knowledge of the gasogene.

You have probably found the "Histoire du gasogene at
http://alsace.bossue.free.fr/gasogene.htm by the Rotary Club de Sarre-Union
and their Projet Gazogene http://membres.lycos.fr/rotarysu/projetgazo.htm

Rotary Club de SARRE-UNION
Restaurant Klein, F-67260 Sarre-Union
Tél : 03 88 00 11 82
FAX : 03 88 00 11 82
Internet : rotarysu@multimania.com

I'm sure that in the course of their restoration projects they have found
the answers to many of your questions.

There is also the

Club Auto Retro Gazo

15 Rue de Vignes

67170 Bernolsheim

tel 03 88 51 87 05

Or you can buy a classic and try it yourself
http://www.quaidejavel.com/annonces/fiche_05_074.html Traction 15/6
fonctionnant au Gazogène Sabatier-Decauville de 1939 (très bon état)

Jean Daninos built the Gazogene Facel (Forges et Ateliers de Construction d'
Eure-et-Loir) in 1939 during the occupation.
http://www.facelvega.com/hifrog1.htm

Models like the Citroen Avant 22 were built in 1939 with holes through the
chassiss to adapt a gazogene

A gasozene is referred to the the description of the occupation at
http://perso.respublica.fr/chateaubriant/page11.html Charcoal was made from
the wood surrounding Chateubriant. One problem was simply running out of
wood: http://www.kav.cas.cz/~buble/text/fr/HommeQuiPlanaitDesArbres.html

Gasozenes figure as vehicles in a French role playing game where the earth
is plunged into eternal darkness and humanity is threatened with extinction
http://www.sden.org/jdr/solsys/ap.htm See Les missiones
autonomones>Vehicules>Carburant (wood or charcoal permitted)

Kind regards,

Tom Miles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian J. Underhill" <pequeno@teleport.com>
To: <gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:16 PM
Subject: GAS-L: Wood Burning Cars in WWII France

> Greetings all,
>
> I'm an author and game designer working with Steve Jackson Games on a
> roleplaying sourcebook for WWII France entitled RETURN TO HONOR
> (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/ww2/returntohonor/).
>
> In the course of the project, I'm trying to find information on the old
> wood-burning civilian cars found largely in the Occupation zone (and
> elsewhere at times). Any information you might be able to provide, or
> sources you could point me to, would be very helpful.
>
> Specifically, I'm interested in things like:
>
>
> How much additional weight did a wood-burning contraption add?
>
> What kind of mileage (fuel economy) did a wood-burning vehicle get (i.e.,
> how many pounds/kilos of wood per mile/km)?
>
> Could a wood-burning unit be added to just any car? Were some cars better
> suited to it than others?
>
> Was wet or dry wood better? How small did it have to be to burn? Chunks,
> sticks, twigs, chips?
>
> How difficult was it to build such a unit from scratch? What kind of
> skills/tools were needed?
>
>
> While the book deals specifically with France in WWII, *any* information
on
> wood-burning vehicles will be helpful. I can't imagine that wood-burners
in
> other parts of the world were that much different from those in France. It
> is, however, important that the material be specific to the 1940s.
>
> Thanks in advance. Hope to hear from someone soon. :)
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> --
> Brian J. Underhill
> pequeno@teleport.com
> brian@brianunderhill.com
> http://www.brianunderhill.com/
> http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/ww2/returntohonor/
> http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/cliffhangers/
> http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/heroes1/
> --
> "These days I'm feelin' alright, 'cept I
> can't tell my courage from my desperation."
> - Local Hero, Bruce Springsteen
>
>
> -
> Gasification List Archives:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/200202/
>
> Gasification List Moderator:
> Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, Reedtb2@cs.com
> www.webpan.com/BEF
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>
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> -
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> http://www.bioenergy2002.org
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon
>
>

 

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From VHarris001 at aol.com Sun Jul 21 18:51:24 2002
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:10:03 2004
Subject: Lambda (O2) Sensor Links
Message-ID: <ce.29bba0b4.2a6ccd0b@aol.com>

Hi everyone,

I got a tip from someone on the pulsejet list (www.pulse-jets.com - I'm interested in valveless pulse combustion for tarry woodgas) about inexpensive Lambda sensors, and I thought I'd pass along the information.  Try this google search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=diy-wb&btnG=Google+Search

Seems like the consensus is that a 5-wire lambda sensor is the preferred technology where a wide band of sensitivity is required.

Also, I'm wondering if anyone can point me to information on how to use the output from one of these systems to control a butterfly valve?

Thanks,
Vernon Harris