December 2004 Gasification Archive

From list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk Wed Dec 1 05:50:11 2004
From: list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk (list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:50:11 +0000
Subject: [Gasification] Fw: charcoal making equipment and briquetting
equipment
In-Reply-To: <00c401c4d65d$81e55710$6501a8c0@OFFICE3>
References: <00c401c4d65d$81e55710$6501a8c0@OFFICE3>
Message-ID: <qubrq0t9q8klfdqkpejavekul2cp5bs96i@4ax.com>

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:07:52 -0800, Tom Miles wrote:

>From: <rbarjon at tampabay.rr.com>
>Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 8:31 AM
>Subject: charcoal making equipment and briquetting equipment
>
>
>>
>> I would like to request the cost and volume capacity of charcoal making
>> and briquetting machines.

I actually believe that bioconversion would be a good place to discuss
charcoal making, along with other fuels which start with biomass and
end up with a product to export, off site, for other uses.
Gasification may be one of the processes used and a small stove may be
a charcoal producer within such a scheme.

As to equipment I'll assume this is to briquette charcoal fines? On
the little searching I have done it seems the cost of a non fossil
derived binder other than clay (which increases weight and provides no
energy as well as increasing ash disposal), is a big drawback. In fact
in UK it looks like this cost is of the same order of the energy cost
of densifying sawdust to pellets.

Anyway the traditional way of briquetting charcoal dust is in an
opposed roller press, I have also seen "forged" briquettes. I have
extruded briquettes through a meat mincer, ELK at Chardust has
extruded them on a modified meat mincer on a commercial scale, he has
not yet reported back on his new briquetting equipment. ADKarve's
video shows holey "pucks" being made in a simple press.

From my few experiments crushed charcoal fines reach a density of
300kg/m^3 so ease of handling is the main reason for briquetting
rather than increasing bulk density for transport.

There are numerous ways and scales of making charcoal, traditional
lumpwood charcoal can be made in clamps or pits, the next step is in
simple ring kilns. At a similar level but larger scale are the masonry
kilns and ovens. All these seem to waste the energy released in the
offgas and often, in the absence of flaring this offgas, contribute
far more to pollution than simple burning of the wood.

Higher tech methods are retorts such as still made, I think, by
lambiotte. Then there are hybrid kiln/retorts, one imported here in UK
was made by gaillard, though I see no references to it now, the
biggest seems to be the Lurgi, two built for Simcoa in Australia.

At the smaller scale John from lanstar, occasionally posts on Stoves,
has an intermediate technology batch sequential system and ADKarve
shows his sugar cane trash carboniser on his video. I adapted this
method from an original idea posted by Yuri by submerging 200ltr oil
drums in my woodchip burner and a colleague did the same in one built
to my design. ELK's sawdust carboniser is a similar small scale clean
burning device.

Alex English demonstrated a scale up of the Reed-Larson idd charcoal
making stove some years back and I have done similar with woodchip. At
Cardiff University my colleague demonstrated a simple recirculating
system to produce high cv offgas sufficient to run a low pressure gas
turbine as well as lumpwood charcoal. These technologies are all
relatively clean burning.

CML in France (now owned by Regenat I think) have a modular kiln
system with a fair degree of mechanical handling the flare from which
lends itself for useful work, though I do not believe they have
harnessed it yet.

A simple coking oven design from South Africa was copied here for
making charcoal from billets of wood and marketed as the "webster
retort" It's major drawback was the amount of support wood needed to
heat it up.

A direct fired air starved system is marketed, in UK, as the "Viper"
and I did try an earlier version but productivity was highly
restricted, I used a similar approach which I called the "modified pit
method" which allowed a high work rate using mechanical handling,
though the yield was poor and the offgas was flared, the significant
problem with this was in cooling the large volume of char. Both of the
above tended to have char which contained visible ash which indicates
temperatures were too high and air was reaching the char.

A sophisticated system is the Reichart process, though I have never
seen it, which reclaims tar, acetic acid, methanol as well as charcoal
with a thermal efficiency of 73%, I wonder if any still operate?

Searches also yield a Herreshoff furnace for fines in Australia.

There must be dozens more.

AJH

From jonpratt76 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 1 07:33:51 2004
From: jonpratt76 at hotmail.com (Jonathan Pratt)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:33:51 -0500
Subject: [Gasification] Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 4, Issue 29
References: <20041130170016.8079EE35D@ns2.misteam.net>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV12D006434CC29DE374C6F0C6BF0@phx.gbl>

Dear Mr. Dimiduk,

I came across this message you just posted to gasification digest. What you
are talking about doing is exactly what the alternative energy industry
needs to get off the ground. I will be starting a company which will
require exactly the kinds of services you are speaking about namely
prototype fabrication and invention development. I also want to create a
web portal as a central hub in several kind of open source alternative
energy technology development projects. I want to focus on gasifiers, waste
heat engines, and some new highly efficient engines which I have some design
ideas for. I believe you are right on about incubating small cottage
industries.

Truth is many things can be done a lot cheaper by small cottage producers
and the benefits are spread much more broadly then when the megacorportions
do things. I believe that the whole process of globalization will be soon
turned on it's head within a few years because the way things are structured
they simply can't be sustained for much longer. It's all dependent on US
consumer debt spending and various countries exporting us their goods on
credit. Our credit is running out, our dollar is declining so inflation is
about to shoot up for commodity prices and other things, things are soon to
be coming to a head with the WTO. We are actually being penalized by the
WTO now for what little we even do to protect our domestic industries. When
all this comes to a head with a crashing dollar and imports screeching to a
halt because it won't be "given" to us on credit anymore all of the cottage
industries in the US will be given an enormous shot in the arm because
everyone will be scrambling to make our country produce for all of it's own
consumption again. Not to mention with oil prices going up and us not able
to import so much of it soon the gamut of alternative energy industries will
benefit imensely and we are forced to completely change our entire energy
infrastructure.

Do you currently have any facilities for fabrication? Do you currently have
a small foundry and machine shop? Also do you have any web pages for your
businesses?

Jonathan Pratt
Norfolk, VA

DD I do not have any equipment available at this time. I am however very
interested in the market potential for manufacturing parts for such
equipment and
much more. At some point in the future, I plan on the construction of a
farm
scale, charcoal fueled foundry. This later could be extended to include
forging, metal fabrication, and machine shops, extensively utilizing
renewable
energy sources. My greenhouses could benefit from all waste heat.
DD I am always adding to the long list of products which have limited
markets
and therefore are of little interest to the large scale foundries and
fabrication shops. It would serve my intentions well, to first provide cast
iron and
specialty steel products to the emerging renewable energy markets.
DD My intention is to provide inventors in the renewables industries, an
INEXPENSIVE way to produce experimental prototype and limited production run
equipment. Every inventor deserves to see his / her work cast in metal.
DD My long list of products of interest includes: wood, charcoal and other
biomass fueled stoves and burners, gasifer castings and related hardware
such as
gas cleaning equipment, charcoal production and processing equipment,
biomass
raw resource harvesting/handling/processing equipment, biomass digestion
equipment, biomass refining/ distillation and equipment for final marketing
prep.
Pollution control equipment for all of the above.
DD Under the general heading of renewable energy and sustainable
development:
solar thermal/photovoltaic collector and concentrator parts, small scale
wind
energy harvesting parts.( note, water has been pumped for centuries with
direct drive). Small scale hydro equipment and related hardware, small scale
water
collection, storage and purification equipment. Also, the landscaping,
greenhouse and some farming industries are all familiar to me.
DD I probably missed quite a few categories. I am sick and tired of hearing
from skeptics that there is no market for domestic specialty cast iron and
steel products because of China import syndrome. In the next breath those
same
skeptics complain about availability of products and inventions they would
make
if they could.

DD Many on this list have expressed an interest in development of pet
projects. Is this the type of business we need as a catalyst for development
of
Bioenergy industry? I feel if we all wait for government or institutional
action we
will all be long dead before anything happens. I would be happy to read
E-mail from potential future customers. I want to know what markets are most
in
immediate need of these types of products/service.
DD By expressing your interest, you will motivate me towards farther
construction of this facility. I have a long term lease on land which is
actually
zoned for my experimental greenhouse. This summer I masonry lined, my hand
dug
well. Much hard work needs done before foundry construction can begin. If
enough
potential orders were outstanding, the profit motive would propel me
forward.
I do have a family to feed and I try to make all of my projects profitable
ASAP.
DD My fuel supply is assured. I am moving towards a full time, automated,
construction woodlot clearing business. The land has historically been a
small
landfill operation and much low grade biomass can be obtained along with a
tipping fee. An opportunity to develop this property will pass at some time
in the
uncertain distant future, due to future land ownership changes.
DD My object is a to prove the viability of interrelated, interlocked
sustainable industries on a micro-cottage scale. I am always thinking what
we would
be doing if we were living on Mars. My Shangri-La is the trial and error
manifestation and hands on demonstration of these thoughts. You could say it
is an
experiment in vertical integration for a sustainable future.
DD One can rest assured that I have more than enough projects of my own to
develop, that I have no need to steal intellectual property. On the
contrary, If
you trust me, I may help you find markets and consultants for your projects.
A patent is worthless with no market. I will make my money selling you metal
or on side deals, I do trade ;-)
Thank you,

Daniel J. Dimiduk, Founder :
Carefree Landscape Maintenance Co. ( since 1980)
Shangri-La Research and Development Co. ( since 1990)
Ohio Charcoal and Iron Company ( under development)

From dschmidt at undeerc.org Thu Dec 2 13:40:45 2004
From: dschmidt at undeerc.org (Schmidt, Darren)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 13:40:45 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] EERC Press Release
Message-ID: <3F678EC15E6D8F4EA7CDC3F389D9CC7E0220832B@undeerc.eerc.und.NoDak.edu>

The purpose of this message is to clarify a press release posted by the EERC
(University of North Dakota) regarding operation of a gasifier coupled to a
diesel engine. Posted at
http://www.undeerc.org/newsroom/newsitem.asp?id=200
<http://www.undeerc.org/newsroom/newsitem.asp?id=200> .

Some of the feedback on the gasification list has tended to be negative
since the article provided an impression of "first of a-kind" research. I
hope to clarify the impression.

Please understand that press releases are designed to promote business.

Here are the facts:

* The EERC is operating an Ankur Scientific Model WBG-200 gasifier.
* The unit is mounted to a 45' trailer and is portable.
* Equipment provided by Ankur was modified to handle a wide variety of
fuels (sawdust and wood chips vs. wood chunks).
* Equipment provided by Ankur was integrated by the EERC for
automation to fit within typical North American applications.
* Gas cleaning includes a venturi scrubber, and standard filtration.
* The system has been operated for over 100 hours as a continuous
automated plant and data was obtained for gas composition, particulate & tar
levels, HAZMAT analysis, mass balance, and energy balance.
* A diesel engine was connected to the gasifier and operated for about
8 hours over two days to collect data on power, efficiency, and emissions.
The engine was connected to a dynamometer for this purpose and power levels
were 50 - 100 hp.
* Publication of these results will occur in the near future, as work
is being performed for various clients.
* Sawdust, woodchips, and tree trimmings have been fired in the
gasifier.
* Future plans include firing additional fuel types and operation of
microturbines. The EERC is approved by the local utility for grid
interconnection.
* There are currently no gasifier-piston engine systems in the US
operating on a commercial basis paying back their investment.
* Work occurring at EERC is geared towards commercialization.
* I am not aware of any published work in the US concerning operation
of "diesel engines" with producer gas. There has been US work published
with spark ignition engines, and there has been diesel engine work published
in India and Europe.
* Myself and many other colleagues that read the gasification list are
well aware of the history behind biomass gasification, the companies working
to develop gasifiers, and previous successful and non-successful attempts.

A few "firsts" should be recognized:

- This will be the first documentation for an Ankur system in the US.

- This is most likely the first documented operation of a "diesel" engine
with biomass gasifier gas in the US.

- This will most likely be the first public documentation of HAZMAT data
from a biomass gasifier operation, which is critical to site developers as
they decide how to handle charcoal/ash, spent filter media, and process
effluents from gasification.

Thank you - I wish the best for everyone working to develop and apply
biomass gasification power systems.

Darren D. Schmidt, P.E., Research Manager

Energy & Environmental Research Center

University of North Dakota

15 N. 23rd St.

Grand Forks, ND 58203

(701) 777-5120, fax 5181

dschmidt at undeerc.org <mailto:dschmidt at undeerc.org>

www.undeerc.org <http://www.undeerc.org>

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From LarryAlbin at msn.com Thu Dec 2 18:47:56 2004
From: LarryAlbin at msn.com (Larry Albin)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 16:47:56 -0800
Subject: [Gasification] Email Address
Message-ID: <BAY3-DAV19C3E6899C5A2138418915D9B10@phx.gbl>

LarryAlbin at msn.com<mailto:LarryAlbin at msn.com>
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From rstanley at legacyfound.org Sat Dec 4 01:07:05 2004
From: rstanley at legacyfound.org (Richard Stanley)
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 09:07:05 +0200
Subject: [Gasification] Retting biomass for pellets
In-Reply-To: <003701c4d0d7$e4ed00a0$54abf204@oemcomputer>
References: <2BCECFA1.69CC7777.0016DBFB@aol.com> <09bf01c4d0bb$740df4f0$3401a8c0@OFFICE>
<003701c4d0d7$e4ed00a0$54abf204@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <41B16219.3000102@legacyfound.org>

Oops: edited version bellow...

Dear Hank. Tom et al,

Think I agree with you Hank, It is not just the fibers but the
infilling..of pithy material which acts as a crude insulation and heat
sink to my experience-- as gleaned from the hundreds of actual
expert/practitioners on site.

To that end the retting process differs slightly from our "partial
decomposition process" (for lack of a more sophisticated term). In
partial decomposition one wants to defibrate the material and retain the
gooey, less fibrous material which retting seeks to discard. One would
not want to fully saturate it in water because one needs to build
temperature within the mass to accelerate decomposition--up to a very
critical stage before interrupting it. Take it too far (as in a few days
beyond a three to six week long process, and you have compost.

As well, one needs to chop and partially mash the material (to cornflake
size) or in log fiber sizes say down to ?40 mm , well before the
decomposition begins. This is done to increase surface area and because
it is farmore difficult to do after the material is in a partially
decomposed and wet.

The technology for this is as either old "as the hills" or brand new.
The timeless mortar and pestle is used typically in a village setting A
3 - 5 kw Hammermill is used in same where it is available and inbetween
are an assortment of threshers and choppers. We have developed a
specific device for the briquettes which has both threshing chopping and
mashing capabilities if anyone is interested. It was made in Uganda at
the Uganda Industrail Research Institute (in Kampala) and again in Gulu
at the Unity Vocational school (take your flak jacket along), drawing
upon experience with workshop folks and entrepreneurs in Kangemi Kenya
and Bamaco Mali. I never made technical drawings (then anticipating that
the said institutes would carry on with that) but have scads of photos
and an operator's maintenance manual for it but could reconstruct it in
my sleep (probably not unlike most of us out there with our own
innovations eh?)

Finally and this is as much for FOST and the impending Nepal project
folks, while we are busy measuring fuel values per material used there
is alot to be said for fuel shape in terms of reflected radience,
inherent insulation and stack effect of the hole. As far as the holey
briquette goes its still seems to be as much about what we do not use
(the hole shape) as the material content. Its why we tend to resist
defining production values based on weight of mass processed, preferring
instead to address markets reached. This latter point will probably NOT
apply to the use of the proposed improved stoves but if you intend to
use anything like our larger hollow briquette, you might want to
consider it in your planning.

pressing onward,
Richard

Hank wrote:

>I would think that you would be losing considerable material that would have
>a fuel value if you retted the biomass. Retting is good if all you want is
>the fiber as in jute or linen (flax) retting to help prepare the fiber for
>spinning. All the rest of the plant stalk is "wasted" as it rots away.
>
>Hank in the high desert
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Gasification mailing list
>Gasification at listserv.repp.org
>http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification
>
>
>
>
>

From dschmidt at undeerc.org Mon Dec 6 09:18:28 2004
From: dschmidt at undeerc.org (Schmidt, Darren)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:18:28 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] Published data
Message-ID: <3F678EC15E6D8F4EA7CDC3F389D9CC7E02208343@undeerc.eerc.und.NoDak.edu>

I greatly appreciate the response from this list providing some past diesel
engine projects in the US that I was unaware.

I am providing a list of some of the publications that I have found helpful
for determining the expected performance from engines.

Thanks.

1. Dasappa, S; Mukunda, H.S.; Paul, P.J.; Rajan, N.K.S; "Biomass to
Energy the Science and Technology of the IISc Bio-energy Systems" Advanced
Bioresidue Energy Technologies Society, Combustion Gasification and
Propulsion Laboratory, Department of Aerospace Engineering, Indian Institute
of Science, Bangalore India, 2003.

2. Uma, Kandpal, Kishore; "Emission Characteristics of an electricity
generation system in diesel alone and duel fuel modes" TERI, Inidan
Institute of Technoloyg Dec. 2003
3. Baozhao, Yicheng "Study on performance of biomass gasifier-engine
systems and their environmental aspects" China National rice Reseach
Instititue/California Davis
4. Sridhar, Paul, Mukunda, "Biomass derived producer gas as a
reciprocating engine fuel- an experimental analysis. IISC Bangalore 2000.
5. Bhattacharya, Hla, Pham "A study on a mult-stage hybrid gasifier
engine system" Asian Institute of Technology 2001.
6. Munoz, Moreno, Roy, ruiz, Arauzo"low heatin value gas on spark
ignition engines" Spain, 1999.
7. Parikh, Bhave, Kapse, Shashikantha; "Study of Thermal & Emission
Performance of Small Gasifier-Dual Fuel Engine Systems; IIT Bombay.
8. Rajvanshi, Joshi; Development and Operational Experience with
Topless Wood Gasifier Running a 3-75kW Diesel Engine Pumpset" Nimbkar Ag
Res. Inst. India.
9. Talib; Development and Field Testing of Small Biomass Gasifier
Eninge Systems in India: A Joint Project by an American and Indian Team;
MITRE Corp. McLean VA, Goss U of Ca, Davis, Flanigan University of
Missouri-Rolla; Grover, MathurIIT New Delhi.

Darren D. Schmidt, P.E., Research Manager

Energy & Environmental Research Center

University of North Dakota

15 N. 23rd St.

Grand Forks, ND 58203

(701) 777-5120, fax 5181

dschmidt at undeerc.org <mailto:dschmidt at undeerc.org>

www.undeerc.org <http://www.undeerc.org>

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From tombreed at comcast.net Thu Dec 9 05:20:04 2004
From: tombreed at comcast.net (tombreed at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:20:04 +0000
Subject: [Gasification] Retting biomass for pellets
Message-ID: <120920041120.2282.41B834E40007F1C0000008EA22007614380B0A0A9D0D03019B@comcast.net>

Dear Richard and All:

The usual flax retting involves flowing water (a stream) which carries away the interfiber glues. Your "rottint" process leaves them in place. Its all good fuel.

TOM REED

--
Dr Thomas B. Reed
THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION (etc.)

> Oops: edited version bellow...
>
> Dear Hank. Tom et al,
>
> Think I agree with you Hank, It is not just the fibers but the
> infilling..of pithy material which acts as a crude insulation and heat
> sink to my experience-- as gleaned from the hundreds of actual
> expert/practitioners on site.
>
> To that end the retting process differs slightly from our "partial
> decomposition process" (for lack of a more sophisticated term). In
> partial decomposition one wants to defibrate the material and retain the
> gooey, less fibrous material which retting seeks to discard. One would
> not want to fully saturate it in water because one needs to build
> temperature within the mass to accelerate decomposition--up to a very
> critical stage before interrupting it. Take it too far (as in a few days
> beyond a three to six week long process, and you have compost.
>
> As well, one needs to chop and partially mash the material (to cornflake
> size) or in log fiber sizes say down to ???40 mm , well before the
> decomposition begins. This is done to increase surface area and because
> it is farmore difficult to do after the material is in a partially
> decomposed and wet.
>
> The technology for this is as either old "as the hills" or brand new.
> The timeless mortar and pestle is used typically in a village setting A
> 3 - 5 kw Hammermill is used in same where it is available and inbetween
> are an assortment of threshers and choppers. We have developed a
> specific device for the briquettes which has both threshing chopping and
> mashing capabilities if anyone is interested. It was made in Uganda at
> the Uganda Industrail Research Institute (in Kampala) and again in Gulu
> at the Unity Vocational school (take your flak jacket along), drawing
> upon experience with workshop folks and entrepreneurs in Kangemi Kenya
> and Bamaco Mali. I never made technical drawings (then anticipating that
> the said institutes would carry on with that) but have scads of photos
> and an operator's maintenance manual for it but could reconstruct it in
> my sleep (probably not unlike most of us out there with our own
> innovations eh?)
>
> Finally and this is as much for FOST and the impending Nepal project
> folks, while we are busy measuring fuel values per material used there
> is alot to be said for fuel shape in terms of reflected radience,
> inherent insulation and stack effect of the hole. As far as the holey
> briquette goes its still seems to be as much about what we do not use
> (the hole shape) as the material content. Its why we tend to resist
> defining production values based on weight of mass processed, preferring
> instead to address markets reached. This latter point will probably NOT
> apply to the use of the proposed improved stoves but if you intend to
> use anything like our larger hollow briquette, you might want to
> consider it in your planning.
>
> pressing onward,
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> Hank wrote:
>
> >I would think that you would be losing considerable material that would have
> >a fuel value if you retted the biomass. Retting is good if all you want is
> >the fiber as in jute or linen (flax) retting to help prepare the fiber for
> >spinning. All the rest of the plant stalk is "wasted" as it rots away.
> >
> >Hank in the high desert
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Gasification mailing list
> >Gasification at listserv.repp.org
> >http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
> Gasification at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification

From GCRISLER at mn.rr.com Fri Dec 10 10:32:01 2004
From: GCRISLER at mn.rr.com (Garret Crisler)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:32:01 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] thoughts and comments on wood chips as fuel
Message-ID: <001d01c4ded5$c6fa9dd0$26e21e41@D476PM31>

I am presently running my gasifier on scrape lumber such as pallets and building lumber. I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota and have an infinite supply of chipped up trees. I am looking for thoughts and comments and ideas on modifying my gasifier to be able to operate on these chips.

The chips are a large percent moisture as they sit outside in a pile.
The chips are produced as mulch for decorative use around sidewalks and such. They vary in size from very small to about 2-3" long by 1" wide.

Anybody's input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Garret Crisler
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From tmiles at trmiles.com Fri Dec 10 15:54:51 2004
From: tmiles at trmiles.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:54:51 -0800
Subject: [Gasification] thoughts and comments on wood chips as fuel
References: <001d01c4ded5$c6fa9dd0$26e21e41@D476PM31>
Message-ID: <005701c4df02$e8995cb0$c802f10a@tomslaptop>

Garret,

Can you provide pictures/sketch of your gasifier and the fuels you are now firing(Send to tmiles at trmiles.com )? We can post it on the gasification discussion web site to give people a more clear undertanding of what you are doing now.

Regards,

Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Garret Crisler
To: Gasification at listserv.repp.org
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 8:32 AM
Subject: [Gasification] thoughts and comments on wood chips as fuel

Anybody's input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Garret Crisler

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
Gasification at listserv.repp.org
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification
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From GCRISLER at mn.rr.com Fri Dec 10 16:10:19 2004
From: GCRISLER at mn.rr.com (Garret Crisler)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:10:19 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] thoughts and comments on wood chips as fuel
References: <001d01c4ded5$c6fa9dd0$26e21e41@D476PM31>
<005701c4df02$e8995cb0$c802f10a@tomslaptop>
Message-ID: <006801c4df05$09f2e3c0$26e21e41@D476PM31>

I will do that, I tried to post a picture of the woodchips however the file size is limited to 40K. Which is very small these days.
Garret Crisler

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Miles
To: Garret Crisler ; Gasification at listserv.repp.org
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] thoughts and comments on wood chips as fuel

Garret,

Regards,

Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Garret Crisler
To: Gasification at listserv.repp.org
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 8:32 AM
Subject: [Gasification] thoughts and comments on wood chips as fuel

Anybody's input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Garret Crisler

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
Gasification at listserv.repp.org
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification

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From a31ford at inetlink.ca Fri Dec 10 19:56:55 2004
From: a31ford at inetlink.ca (a31ford)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:56:55 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] thoughts and comments on wood chips as fuel
In-Reply-To: <001d01c4ded5$c6fa9dd0$26e21e41@D476PM31>
Message-ID: <001d01c4df24$b1e6dbd0$1900a8c0@a31server>

Dear Garret....

Plain and Simple.... We need to talk !

I'm Doing downdraft woodchips with auger feed.

Are you running an Updraft unit ? or Downdraft? are you doing CHP or heat
only?

Do tell Please...

Greg Manning
Called "Mr.. Fusion" by the locals

Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Garret Crisler
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:32 AM
To: Gasification at listserv.repp.org
Subject: [Gasification] thoughts and comments on wood chips as fuel

I am presently running my gasifier on scrape lumber such as pallets and
building lumber. I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota and have an infinite
supply of chipped up trees. I am looking for thoughts and comments and ideas
on modifying my gasifier to be able to operate on these chips.

The chips are a large percent moisture as they sit outside in a pile.
The chips are produced as mulch for decorative use around sidewalks and
such. They vary in size from very small to about 2-3" long by 1" wide.

Anybody's input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Garret Crisler
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From tombreed at comcast.net Sat Dec 11 03:56:26 2004
From: tombreed at comcast.net (tombreed at comcast.net)
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:56:26 +0000
Subject: [Gasification] RE: [ethos] Re: [Stoves] Zinc as a Poison (Was
Coatings & Poisons)
Message-ID: <121120040956.13705.41BAC44A0002B3D20000358922007503300B0A0A9D0D03019B@comcast.net>

Dear Ken and All:

At first your story is paradoxical. Steel has a melting point of ~1400C, cast iron only 1100C which is why firebacks and grates can easily be made from cast iron, much more difficult than steel castings. Also the thermal conductivity of cast iron is probably lower than steel. Yet cast iron grates etc. last better than steel. Why?

I believe that it is because being so massive the heat is carried away from the few places where burning fuel actually touches the grate and disipated by radiation in the massive structure.

COMMENTS?

TOM REED GASIFICATION BEF

> Dear All,
> Another meomory from my early years.
> We used to have a local foundry, Dudley & Dowells, still to be seen on
> pavement drain and manhole covers around the UK. I must be a bit sad for
> looking out for these details.
> Anyway, along with these, they also cast fire baskets and grates and it
> was known to be a red heat resistant cast iron / steel, which really did
> last( similar to the jotul and other cast stoves)
> Having made fire dogs and boxes out of mild steel which burn out rapidly
> it is obvious that the foundry knew what they were up to with alloys.
> Does anyone know the composition of the cast iron they would have used?
> Sincerely
> Ken
>
>
>
> I've stopped 20,246 spam messages. You can too!
> One month FREE spam protection at
> http://www.cloudmark.com/spamnetsig/?rc=f4n4hl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:stoves-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of
> list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk
> Sent: 10 December 2004 20:56
> To: stoves at listserv.repp.org
> Subject: Re: [ethos] Re: [Stoves] Zinc as a Poison (Was Coatings &
> Poisons)
>
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:27:53 +0000, list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk wrote:
>
> >>
> >> K: It woun't be "rust", in the sense of being "red stuff", but
> rather, it will be "black iron oxide", or a "mill scale." It is very
> corrosion resistant on its own, but the problem is that it has a
> different expansion coefficient from the underlying steel, and it flakes
> off easily, at its own pace.
> >
> >Yes it appears grey and brittle.
>
> One thing I meant to mention, I sit next to a Jotul wood burning
> stove, it has some cast iron inserts to form the top and sides, the
> top (about 10mm thick) one has flames impinging on it and hot flue gas
> on the other side. In use it can glow a dull red, yet in 20 years it
> has not burned through, yet.
>
> AJH
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
> Stoves at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves
> %http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
> Stoves at listserv.repp.org
> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves
> %http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/

From kchisholm at ca.inter.net Mon Dec 13 16:36:33 2004
From: kchisholm at ca.inter.net (Kevin Chisholm)
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:36:33 -0400
Subject: [Gasification] RE: [ethos] Re: [Stoves] Zinc as a Poison
(WasCoatings & Poisons)
References: <121120040956.13705.41BAC44A0002B3D20000358922007503300B0A0A9D0D03019B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <003501c4e165$a7073370$419a0a40@kevin>

Dear Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: tombreed at comcast.net
To: Ken Basterfield ; list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk ; stoves at listserv.repp.org
Cc: gasification at listserv.repp.org
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 5:56 AM
Subject: [Gasification] RE: [ethos] Re: [Stoves] Zinc as a Poison (WasCoatings & Poisons)

Dear Ken and All:

I believe that it is because being so massive the heat is carried away from the few places where burning fuel actually touches the grate and disipated by radiation in the massive structure.

COMMENTS?

The silicon in "High Silicon Cast Iron" forms a tight and adherent scale that prevents further oxidation and scaling.
Kevin

TOM REED GASIFICATION BEF

From gregoire.jovicic at jovicic.com Thu Dec 16 12:45:25 2004
From: gregoire.jovicic at jovicic.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gr=E9goire_JOVICIC?=)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:45:25 +0100
Subject: [Gasification] (no subject)
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAjWHuzVeiQECyc+xYtT7dy8KAAAAQAAAAwEVl0g+lTkWGKGPHc1R6HAEAAAAA@jovicic.com>

Gr?goire Jovicic

Ing?nieur Conseil

e-mail : gregoire.jovicic at jovicic.com

20 rue de Berne

75008 Paris

France

Tel : + 33 1 45 22 59 70

Fax : + 33 1 44 69 03 46

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From a31ford at inetlink.ca Fri Dec 17 13:32:47 2004
From: a31ford at inetlink.ca (a31ford)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:32:47 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] Startup Time!
Message-ID: <003901c4e46f$30b493e0$1900a8c0@a31server>

Hello All !!

I give up!

"Arnt" wins the "startup time, to gas production"!

The best I can get with the new downdraft unit is 2 to 2 1/2 minutes no
better!

BTW, (By The Way)

I might just have a small short video clip of a 5 hour run, that went very,
very well with the new one, It's available in 2 versions (free download)
low-rez & high-rez.

Is there any interest in watching them ?

I don't really want to simply post the link, as I could get hammered with
service charges from non-group people downloading it also (I only have a
user account's web space, NOT a true web site.)

Replies to the list are no problem, I'll simply send the link in private.

Let me know.

Greg Manning,

Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 12/15/2004

From arnt at c2i.net Fri Dec 17 18:21:51 2004
From: arnt at c2i.net (Arnt Karlsen)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 01:21:51 +0100
Subject: [Gasification] Startup Time!
In-Reply-To: <003901c4e46f$30b493e0$1900a8c0@a31server>
References: <003901c4e46f$30b493e0$1900a8c0@a31server>
Message-ID: <20041218012151.22321455.arnt@c2i.net>

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:32:47 -0600, a31ford wrote in message
<003901c4e46f$30b493e0$1900a8c0 at a31server>:

>
> Hello All !!
>
> I give up!
>
> "Arnt" wins the "startup time, to gas production"!
>
> The best I can get with the new downdraft unit is 2 to 2 1/2 minutes
> no better!

..huh? You're doing something wrong, or are you just not using an
internal tar flare? First, how long does it take to suck one specific
_average_ molecule of gas thru your your gasifier, downstream piping,
cleaner, cooling etc process plant gear all the way out to your flare?

..but hey, you too have beaten all the WWII guys except K?lle. ;-)

> BTW, (By The Way)
>
> I might just have a small short video clip of a 5 hour run, that went
> very, very well with the new one, It's available in 2 versions (free
> download) low-rez & high-rez.
>
> Is there any interest in watching them ?

..yup. ;-)

> I don't really want to simply post the link, as I could get hammered
> with service charges from non-group people downloading it also (I only
> have a user account's web space, NOT a true web site.)

..???

> Replies to the list are no problem, I'll simply send the link in
> private.
>
> Let me know.
>
> Greg Manning,
>
> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.

From bobsyf at fbcom.net Fri Dec 17 18:41:37 2004
From: bobsyf at fbcom.net (Colette & Bob L.)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:41:37 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] Re: Junk Mial ??? /Gasification Digest, Vol 5,
Issue 8
References: <20041217170016.10F6729A37@ns2.misteam.net>
Message-ID: <000e01c4e49a$58214b50$2f01a8c0@levsenfam>

----- Original Message -----
From: <gasification-request at listserv.repp.org>
To: <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:00 AM
Subject: Gasification Digest, Vol 5, Issue 8

Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
gasification at listserv.repp.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
gasification-request at listserv.repp.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
gasification-owner at listserv.repp.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific
than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. (no subject) (Gr?goire JOVICIC)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:45:25 +0100
From: Gr?goire JOVICIC <gregoire.jovicic at jovicic.com>
Subject: [Gasification] (no subject)
To: <gasification at listserv.repp.org>
Message-ID:
<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAjWHuzVeiQECyc+xYtT7dy8KAAAAQAAAAwEVl0g+lTkWGKGPHc1R6HAEAAAAA at jovicic.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Gr?goire Jovicic

Ing?nieur Conseil

e-mail : gregoire.jovicic at jovicic.com

20 rue de Berne

75008 Paris

France

Tel : + 33 1 45 22 59 70

Fax : + 33 1 44 69 03 46

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------------------------------

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Gasification at listserv.repp.org
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification

End of Gasification Digest, Vol 5, Issue 8
******************************************

From a31ford at inetlink.ca Fri Dec 17 18:53:11 2004
From: a31ford at inetlink.ca (a31ford)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:53:11 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] Re: Junk Mial ??? /Gasification Digest, Vol 5,
Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <000e01c4e49a$58214b50$2f01a8c0@levsenfam>
Message-ID: <001001c4e49b$f3815620$1900a8c0@a31server>

If I didn't know any better, I would almost think that a Trojan or Virus had
sent the ORIGINAL message, but the listserv stripped the attachment and left
a blank message ??

your opinion Tom ???

Greg Manning

-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Colette &
Bob L.
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 6:42 PM
To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
Subject: [Gasification] Re: Junk Mial ??? /Gasification Digest, Vol
5,Issue 8

Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
gasification at listserv.repp.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
gasification-owner at listserv.repp.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific
than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. (no subject) (Gr?goire JOVICIC)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Gr?goire Jovicic

Ing?nieur Conseil

e-mail : gregoire.jovicic at jovicic.com

20 rue de Berne

75008 Paris

France

Tel : + 33 1 45 22 59 70

Fax : + 33 1 44 69 03 46

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End of Gasification Digest, Vol 5, Issue 8
******************************************

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Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 12/15/2004

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Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 12/15/2004

From jovick at telus.net Fri Dec 17 16:32:36 2004
From: jovick at telus.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:32:36 -0500
Subject: [Gasification] Stainless
Message-ID: <000b01c4e488$4f9d2380$6401a8c0@bc.hsia.telus.net>

Dear List.

There was some discussions a while back on Stainless Steel but I cant find it.

Question; How big is the expansion difference between 316 SS and mild steel?

Difference in expansion between 316 and 3cr12 steel?

Is there a "best" Stainless for high heat?

Thanks in advance

John Flottvik
www.jfbioenergy.com
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From arnt at c2i.net Sat Dec 18 07:22:45 2004
From: arnt at c2i.net (Arnt Karlsen)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:22:45 +0100
Subject: [Gasification] Stainless
In-Reply-To: <000b01c4e488$4f9d2380$6401a8c0@bc.hsia.telus.net>
References: <000b01c4e488$4f9d2380$6401a8c0@bc.hsia.telus.net>
Message-ID: <20041218142245.0f5a7c62.arnt@c2i.net>

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:32:36 -0500, John wrote in message
<000b01c4e488$4f9d2380$6401a8c0 at bc.hsia.telus.net>:

> Dear List.
>
> There was some discussions a while back on Stainless Steel but I cant
> find it.
>
> Question; How big is the expansion difference between 316 SS and mild
> steel?

..depends on what you call "mild steel", the temperatur range etc. ;-)

> Difference in expansion between 316 and 3cr12 steel?
>
> Is there a "best" Stainless for high heat?

..this to depends on your process, f.ex you do not wanna use stainless
steels at all in hi-temp dusty reducing kinda environments like those
immediately downstream of a thermochemical gasifier, as these rely on
the surface oxide layer for corrosion and erosion resistance.

..on hearing "1100 centigrades, dusty, reducing", a titanium guru
suggested a "no problem, no problem, 10 minutes!" service life on
their piping offerings, so I went for junkyard steel. ;-)

> Thanks in advance
>
> John Flottvik
> www.jfbioenergy.com

..seriously, John, you wanna sue those bandits who sold you their junk:
http://validator.w3.org/checklink/?uri=http%3A//www.jfbioenergy.com/
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator/?uri=http%3A//www.jfbioenergy.com/
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jfbioenergy.com%2F

..your site is supposed to have 10 links in the menu? I only saw "Farm
benefits" ok in Konqueror, trying a few more browsers (Mozilla, Galeon,
Epiphany, Lynx, Links), Links2 found you have 9 embedded .swf files
that tries to open Microsoft Office on my GNU/Linux boxes. ;-)

..this "Office" .swf thing, is it by design to keep it from working on
other than Microsoft Windows XP with Microsoft Office XP with
Microsoft Internet Explorer etc, or has your site been cracked?

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt...
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.

From tombreed at comcast.net Sat Dec 18 08:53:39 2004
From: tombreed at comcast.net (TBReed)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 07:53:39 -0700
Subject: [Gasification] Stainless steel properties.
References: <000b01c4e488$4f9d2380$6401a8c0@bc.hsia.telus.net>
Message-ID: <065f01c4e511$5ca357f0$3201a8c0@OFFICE>

Dear John and All:

The Handbook of Chemistry and Physics lists 9.6 X10^-6 inches/inch for type 304 stainless. Rather high compared to other iron alloys, ~ 6-7.

The Web lists under "stainless steel expansion" ..

Table 2. Coefficient of thermal expansion - average values over 1-100?C

Coefficient of Thermal Expansion
(x10-6/?C)

Carbon Steels
12

Austenitic Steels
17

Duplex Steels
14

Ferritic Steels
10

Martensitic Steels
10

* or micrometres/metre/?C

This expansion coefficient not only varies between steel grades, it also increases slightly with temperature. Grade 304 has a coefficient of 17.2 x 10-6/?C over the temperature range 0 to 100?C, but increases above this temperature
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I sometimes don't mind looking up the answer to difficult questions. However, I have here at my fingertips

Desk Ref (Thomas Glover, available in pocket and full size)

Handbook of Chemistry and Physics

The Merck Index

Chemical Engineers Handbook

All these have vast amounts of information you can check before asking "anybody know?" questions.

You could probably buy all of them used for < $200 on web.

Happy hunting,

TOM REED Gasification Moderator

----- Original Message -----
From: John Flottvik
To: GASIFICATION at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: [Gasification] Stainless

Dear List.

There was some discussions a while back on Stainless Steel but I cant find it.

Question; How big is the expansion difference between 316 SS and mild steel?

Difference in expansion between 316 and 3cr12 steel?

Is there a "best" Stainless for high heat?

Thanks in advance

John Flottvik
www.jfbioenergy.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From jovick at telus.net Sat Dec 18 07:17:21 2004
From: jovick at telus.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 08:17:21 -0500
Subject: [Gasification] Re: Stainless steel properties.
References: <000b01c4e488$4f9d2380$6401a8c0@bc.hsia.telus.net>
<065f01c4e511$5ca357f0$3201a8c0@OFFICE>
Message-ID: <001701c4e503$e8b42840$6401a8c0@bc.hsia.telus.net>

Thanks Tom, Ken & Arnt.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: TBReed
To: John Flottvik ; GASIFICATION at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Stainless steel properties.

Dear John and All:

The Handbook of Chemistry and Physics lists 9.6 X10^-6 inches/inch for type 304 stainless. Rather high compared to other iron alloys, ~ 6-7.

The Web lists under "stainless steel expansion" ..

Table 2. Coefficient of thermal expansion - average values over 1-100?C

Desk Ref (Thomas Glover, available in pocket and full size)

Handbook of Chemistry and Physics

The Merck Index

Chemical Engineers Handbook

All these have vast amounts of information you can check before asking "anybody know?" questions.

You could probably buy all of them used for < $200 on web.

Happy hunting,

TOM REED Gasification Moderator

----- Original Message -----
From: John Flottvik
To: GASIFICATION at LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: [Gasification] Stainless

Dear List.

There was some discussions a while back on Stainless Steel but I cant find it.

Question; How big is the expansion difference between 316 SS and mild steel?

Difference in expansion between 316 and 3cr12 steel?

Is there a "best" Stainless for high heat?

Thanks in advance

John Flottvik
www.jfbioenergy.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz Sun Dec 19 23:00:23 2004
From: Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz (Doug Williams)
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 18:00:23 +1300
Subject: [Gasification] Fluidyne Update December 2004
Message-ID: <000901c4e650$d1982dc0$0301010a@GraemeWilliams>

Fluidyne Update December 2004

Hi Gasification Colleagues

I promised to provide regular reports on the Mega Class Gasifier development
in Canada, but since and during my September/October visit, the weather has
been quite a problem at the installation. With never ending rain, just
trying to keep the prepared chip fuel dry in the large quantities that we
were using taxed everybody's patience. With winter and snow now present, a
fuel preparation building is being constructed and a special high speed
docking saw installed to handle another line of waste wood.
We have also located a trailerised hogger, and the reports on its
performance indicate a long term solution to fuel chip preparation. I hope
to show photos of it in action on site.

During this visit to continue the componentry development for the winter
test programme, I built a "Cyclonic" burner nozzle for the oxidation tower.
We developed this burner nozzle back in 1984, and by installing this one in
the tower, combustion of the gas can be done without soot formation. It
runs at about 10 MWt, but it has plenty of scope to increase the output if
we push the gasifier harder later in our tests. Although we have run at
2.5T/hr, current testing is being held down to 2T/hr while we monitor the
cooling system behaviour, then we will start the maximum output trials next
summer.

In the Canadian environment, we have a seasonal climate change that provides
the extremes of temperature a gasifier must be able to handle in the
different environments of installations. The final design concept has all
the gasifier components encased to control heat and air flows in both
directions depending on climatic conditions, but we are leaving that until
last when we are satisfied with the configuration plans.

On my last visit in June/July 2004, a design for the gas cooler was prepared
to add to the first stage of the condenser/cooler. This has now been built
and installed and is working to expectations. While cooling technology is
well established, cooling producer gas has its own special needs, and off
the shelf equipment did not provide an optimised design for our needs. From
past experience with small scale systems, an opportunity existed to test a
number of ideas within the design to extract the maximum heat out of the
gas. This also improves the removal of condensing moisture and the carbon
blacks which it carries.

With these major components now in place, emission tests are to be completed
before Christmas 2004, and then the final stage of running the multiple
engines can proceed. I should mention that winter emission tests are not
valid for EPA test procedures and the EPA tests will follow in the summer.
We do have a technical hitch with the alternator being 600V, making it
difficult to hook into the grid, but steps are being taken to use the power
on site to run the timber driers at the adjacent mill.

Photos of the Cyclone Burner can be seen on the Fluidyne Archive -
www.fluidynenz.250x.com

Regards,

Doug Williams
FLUIDYNE GASIFICATION

From praufast at free.fr Tue Dec 21 13:34:08 2004
From: praufast at free.fr (Philippe Raufast)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 20:34:8 +0100
Subject: [Gasification] New kind of filter
Message-ID: <20041221193210.5F09C296833@postfix4-2.free.fr>

Hi !

I came across this while browsing the Farm Show cdrom :

""
?No Filter? Dust Mask Lasts Forever
Alan Kennedy set out to design a mask that
would help his youngest daughter breathe
comfortably during her frigid Nordic ski
races.
The mask did what he wanted but he soon
learned it had another purpose: It works great
as a dust mask even though it has no filter
element to be replaced. It not only warms cold
air before it enters the lungs, but collects airborne
particles such as soil, grain dust, ash,
pollen and molds as well.
It consists of a series of thin aluminum
plates, 1 3/8 in. wide by 3 3/4 in. long, that
are arranged in an S-shape cell below the chin
and leading to the mouth. The plates provide
a total of 50 sq. in. of collection surface to
trap dirt, dust, ash, pollen and molds.

?Basically, the design mimics Mother Nature,?
says Kennedy. ?Nasal passages make
a similar 180 degree turns before going into
the lungs, too, and there are hairs that collect
dust particles.?
Kennedy first tested his mask for cold
weather effectiveness and found that at 25
degrees below zero F the lowest temperature
inside the mask was 40 degrees above zero
F.
Soon after he discovered a 6-in. layer of
mold in the top of one of his grain bins, he
decided to see if the mask would protect him.
?I thought the shape of the mask might trap
dust so I tried it out,? he says. ?I climbed into
the bin and shoveled for about 10 minutes,
anticipating the bitter taste you usually experience
when you inhale moldy grain dust.
I took a break outside, blew my nose and
could not detect any dust. I worked for another
1 3/4 hours and when I went into the
house, I noticed my overalls had a coating of
gray green mold on them. I removed the cell
from the mask and ran a cup of hot water
through it into a cup. I was astonished at the
amount of dirty greenish sludge that washed
out, while I had absolutely no ill effects or
symptoms normally associated with handling
dusty grain without a mask.?
Since then, about 10 other farmers have
tried the mask with equally impressive results,
but there have been no scientific or lab
tests on it, Kennedy says.
?However, my guesstimate is that it traps
at least 98 percent of airborne solids,? he says.
Kennedy would like to find a manufacturer
to bring his mask to market.
Contact: FARM SHOW Followup, Alan
Kennedy, Box 10, Miami, Manitoba, Canada
R0G 1H0 (ph 204 435-2101).
Kennedy designed the mask to help his
daughter breathe more comfortably in
cold weather. However, he soon learned it
was also effective against dust and mold. ""

Build in larger size and as muliple elements, maybe it can be used as a flat cyclone, requiring much less room ?

Regards, Phil.

From Gavin at aa3genergi.force9.co.uk Tue Dec 21 17:13:55 2004
From: Gavin at aa3genergi.force9.co.uk (Gavin Gulliver-Goodall)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:13:55 -0000
Subject: [Gasification] New kind of filter
In-Reply-To: <20041221193210.5F09C296833@postfix4-2.free.fr>
Message-ID: <MABBJLGAAFJBOBCKKPMGCEJNEDAA.Gavin@aa3genergi.force9.co.uk>

Would need to consider the pressure drop across it and also the method of
cleaning it.
A cyclone conveniently leaves its dust in a bin at the bottom and needs
relatively little physical cleaning.

Gavin

-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Philippe Raufast
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 19:00
To: Gasification at listserv.repp.org
Subject: [Gasification] New kind of filter

Hi !

I came across this while browsing the Farm Show cdrom :

""
"No Filter" Dust Mask Lasts Forever
Alan Kennedy set out to design a mask that
would help his youngest daughter breathe
comfortably during her frigid Nordic ski
races.
The mask did what he wanted but he soon
learned it had another purpose: It works great
as a dust mask even though it has no filter
element to be replaced. It not only warms cold
air before it enters the lungs, but collects airborne
particles such as soil, grain dust, ash,
pollen and molds as well.
It consists of a series of thin aluminum
plates, 1 3/8 in. wide by 3 3/4 in. long, that
are arranged in an S-shape cell below the chin
and leading to the mouth. The plates provide
a total of 50 sq. in. of collection surface to
trap dirt, dust, ash, pollen and molds.

"Basically, the design mimics Mother Nature,"
says Kennedy. "Nasal passages make
a similar 180 degree turns before going into
the lungs, too, and there are hairs that collect
dust particles."
Kennedy first tested his mask for cold
weather effectiveness and found that at 25
degrees below zero F the lowest temperature
inside the mask was 40 degrees above zero
F.
Soon after he discovered a 6-in. layer of
mold in the top of one of his grain bins, he
decided to see if the mask would protect him.
"I thought the shape of the mask might trap
dust so I tried it out," he says. "I climbed into
the bin and shoveled for about 10 minutes,
anticipating the bitter taste you usually experience
when you inhale moldy grain dust.
I took a break outside, blew my nose and
could not detect any dust. I worked for another
1 3/4 hours and when I went into the
house, I noticed my overalls had a coating of
gray green mold on them. I removed the cell
from the mask and ran a cup of hot water
through it into a cup. I was astonished at the
amount of dirty greenish sludge that washed
out, while I had absolutely no ill effects or
symptoms normally associated with handling
dusty grain without a mask."
Since then, about 10 other farmers have
tried the mask with equally impressive results,
but there have been no scientific or lab
tests on it, Kennedy says.
"However, my guesstimate is that it traps
at least 98 percent of airborne solids," he says.
Kennedy would like to find a manufacturer
to bring his mask to market.
Contact: FARM SHOW Followup, Alan
Kennedy, Box 10, Miami, Manitoba, Canada
R0G 1H0 (ph 204 435-2101).
Kennedy designed the mask to help his
daughter breathe more comfortably in
cold weather. However, he soon learned it
was also effective against dust and mold. ""

Build in larger size and as muliple elements, maybe it can be used as a flat
cyclone, requiring much less room ?

Regards, Phil.

_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
Gasification at listserv.repp.org
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification

From hgatley at emeryenergy.com Wed Dec 22 12:04:56 2004
From: hgatley at emeryenergy.com (Harry)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:04:56 -0700
Subject: [Gasification] RE: Gasification Digest, Vol 5, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <20041222170017.8A17829AA1@ns2.misteam.net>
Message-ID: <000001c4e850$bf012ed0$1901a8c0@scotthassett>

The concept is sound and there are some opportunities to be explored here.
I have developed some coaxial cyclones that I used to dry and purify animal
waste that had similar properties. An advantage of understanding the fluid
mechanics here is that the g-forces in the 180 degree bends are high enough
in my coaxial cyclones to implode the cellular matter. Then the cytoplasm
can be dried and hence the bacteria destroyed.

This little mask is like my cyclone when you make the lamellae in cylinders
and fit them with venturis. Then the acceleration can get above Mach 1. I
had chicken manure at 65% moisture (w/w) shooting down pipes and around
corners at over 80 mph. It then entered my cyclones and was spun at an
equivalent force of over 320 g's.

The compressive force is over 20,000 psig. This kept the manure at less
than 120 degrees Fahrenheit so the protein was not denatured. I ran into
plugging problems occasionally due to burrs on the inside of the pipes where
my laminar boundary layer existed.

I also ran out of investment dollars so I sympathize with your dilemma.
Hopefully there is a new source of funding for such work out there. Good
Luck!

Harry Gatley

From ken at basterfield.com Wed Dec 22 12:31:54 2004
From: ken at basterfield.com (Ken Basterfield)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:31:54 -0000
Subject: [Gasification] Wishes
In-Reply-To: <000001c4e850$bf012ed0$1901a8c0@scotthassett>
Message-ID: <000c01c4e854$832eb630$6802a8c0@KenThinkPad>

A happy Christmas to you all and thanks for such an courteous and
informative year.
Sincerely
Ken B

From a31ford at inetlink.ca Wed Dec 22 12:35:42 2004
From: a31ford at inetlink.ca (a31ford)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:35:42 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] Wishes
In-Reply-To: <000c01c4e854$832eb630$6802a8c0@KenThinkPad>
Message-ID: <009f01c4e855$0b3a97b0$1900a8c0@a31server>

Good Day ALL !!

I also send the same as Ken B.

Best Wishes to all, and a Prosperous New Year !

Greg Manning,

Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Ken Basterfield
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:32 PM
To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
Subject: [Gasification] Wishes

A happy Christmas to you all and thanks for such an courteous and
informative year.
Sincerely
Ken B

_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
Gasification at listserv.repp.org
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification

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From a31ford at inetlink.ca Wed Dec 22 18:53:48 2004
From: a31ford at inetlink.ca (a31ford)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:53:48 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] Astounding Feedstock Calculations !
Message-ID: <00a101c4e889$dd38d770$1900a8c0@a31server>

Good Day (Evening) All !!

Some "tid-bits" for the forum:

1) A 5 gallon pail is 1518 Cubic Inches (0.0283 of m3) (11 3/4" by 14")

2) A Cubic Foot is 1728 Cubic Inches, so roughly, a slightly heaping 5 gal.
pail of wood chips is about a Cubic Foot.

3)That same "slightly heaping" 5 gal. pail of wood chips at 15%MC is about
15 pounds. (6.80 Kg).

4) 15 pounds of wood chips is about 35KwT (by most models & books).

5) Unless your home is VERY large, or poorly insulated and/or drafty, a
known rule of thumb is that for every 10 degrees C below 0c add 10KwT to the
basic furnace size for the average home.

EG: a 1000 sq. ft. home, that normally sees -20c in it's heating season,
the basic furnace would be 20KwT, and add 10KwT two times (-20c) this is a
40KwT furnace.

SO... (Roughly speaking), for someone in my neck of the woods ( -40c ) that
would be a 60KwT furnace, BUT since the downdraft gasifier is running 24/7,
and NOT in terms of a "on/off" 60KwT furnace, a 35KwT gasifier,
continuously, is almost perfect for my needs......

This is incredibly close to real world consumption.... (actually slightly
low).

BUT, for average comparison sake, a 5 gal. pail an hour at an averaged -25c

Seasons Greetings

Greg Manning,

Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

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From oscar at geprop.cu Thu Dec 23 08:01:16 2004
From: oscar at geprop.cu (Oscar Jimenez)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:01:16 -0500
Subject: [Gasification] Wishes
Message-ID: <A6C7CDF4EB4F92459A97B5514EC9F1D9047941@geprop-server.172.16.1.254>

Hi there gasification big team...!!!!

It is my deepest will that everyone involved in gasification issue enjoy a great and fruitful new year 2005.

The best for ALL..!!!

Oscar.

-----Mensaje original-----
De: a31ford [mailto:a31ford at inetlink.ca]
Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 22 de diciembre de 2004 13:36
Para: A Gasification List (E-mail)
Asunto: RE: [Gasification] Wishes

Good Day ALL !!

I also send the same as Ken B.

Best Wishes to all, and a Prosperous New Year !

Greg Manning,

Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

A happy Christmas to you all and thanks for such an courteous and
informative year.
Sincerely
Ken B

_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
Gasification at listserv.repp.org
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification

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_______________________________________________
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Gasification at listserv.repp.org
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification

From hgatley at emeryenergy.com Mon Dec 27 11:48:11 2004
From: hgatley at emeryenergy.com (Harry)
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:48:11 -0700
Subject: [Gasification] RE: Gasification Digest, Vol 5, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <20041223170019.2F9FC29AF0@ns2.misteam.net>
Message-ID: <000001c4ec3c$3bfb89f0$1901a8c0@scotthassett>

Does the equivalence ratio you all use stay at about 0.255 as T.B. Reed
suggests in the systems that you are using or do you allow it to rise to
push the carbon conversion higher? I have noticed the chemical energy of
the producer gas from air fed entrained gas systems is very low (120 BTU per
lb.) from coal fuelled systems. The gas velocity is also very high
(superficial gas velocity). This appears to cause the loss of gas chemical
energy, again T.B Reed on biomass suggests lower superficial gas velocities
give better gas quality. The percent carbon conversion seems to be highest
on coal that ahs been more finely divided. In fixed bed gasifiers, does
anybody have percent carbon data for their ash or percent conversion of fuel
carbon?

From tmiles at trmiles.com Tue Dec 28 12:08:32 2004
From: tmiles at trmiles.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:08:32 -0800
Subject: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers
Message-ID: <002301c4ed08$4b6d92d0$6501a8c0@OFFICE3>

http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/gasification/200kWCHP.html

Post your comments to gasification at listserv.repp.org or directly to them.

Regards,

Tom Miles
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From TK at tke.dk Tue Dec 28 13:26:43 2004
From: TK at tke.dk (Thomas Koch)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:26:43 +0100
Subject: SV: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers
Message-ID: <A1CF906CC309D642B8B9567A4D2D79F1044968@EXCHSERVER.tke.local>

Dear Tom

I just spend 30 minutes browsing through some the links you reffer to checking the material I knew the status of.
My conclusion is that the correlation between reality and written text is not too impressive.

Example: In 1998 IEA task 32 (the combustion task) visited the H?gild and write that it has been running 2230 hours!! with an efficiency of 80 %.
As far as i know it has never been running properly and it was scraped some years ago due to a LOT of technical problems. And measured efficiency was closer to 0 than to 80.
I saw an unoffically calculation showing that the cost pr produced kWh at the H?gild gasifier was close to 10 EURO (13 US$).

The pictures shown on the link below show similar technology. I think you will get severe difficulties in getting your gasifer to last more than a few houndred hours.

Best regards

Thomas Koch

________________________________

Fra: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org p? vegne af Tom Miles
Sendt: ti 28-12-2004 19:08
Til: gasification list
Emne: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers

Two members of our list, Garret Crisler and Greg Manning, have offerred pictures and descriptions of their gasifiers for discussion. I have placed pictures and links on the 200 KW CHP pages for discussion. Please see their information at

http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/gasification/200kWCHP.html

Post your comments to gasification at listserv.repp.org or directly to them.

Regards,

Tom Miles
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From a31ford at inetlink.ca Tue Dec 28 14:16:37 2004
From: a31ford at inetlink.ca (a31ford)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:16:37 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers
In-Reply-To: <A1CF906CC309D642B8B9567A4D2D79F1044968@EXCHSERVER.tke.local>
Message-ID: <00cc01c4ed1a$23730690$1900a8c0@a31server>

Dear: ?Tom M, Tom K, Garret C, and All !
?
Just to bring everyone up to speed on my latest "creation" (if you would
call it that :)
?
The unit shown in the link Tom Miles posted, has now been operating for 130
hours, with no sign of Tuyere problems, or for that fact, no sign of metal
problems at all. In fact the only problem is the operator, who is VERY
judgmental of the unit (me !) Gas production has finally "settled" to a
regular startup time of around 2 to?4 minutes on a continuation of a
previous run, and about 12 minutes on a run that was "stripped out" examined
and refilled.
?
I'm VERY happy to say that as of today, the units feedstock? moisture limits
have been confirmed 3 times now, with the low end being "Bone Dry" (under 7%
MC) and all the way up to 43% MC !! (with the use of a monorator?feedstock
hopper).
?
For those that wish to see?some night time photos of the?modified unit (with
the new monorator hopper)? here's a link,
?
Oh, the insulation is simply because it's COLD, up here, the night the shot
was taken it was minus 23c (-23c) and about 6:30 in the evening.
?
For those that have been following this units trials.... NOTE the height of
the tuyere opening in these pictures, to those seen in?older pictures, I
think you will see that the lower portion of the upper hopper is now? 8cm.
higher than what is was in older photos. (this is the "space" that was added
from the old style unit, to the new "monorated" unit).
?
HYPERLINK
"http://www.inetlink.ca/a31ford/cgcmb/monorator_modification.htm"http://www.
inetlink.ca/a31ford/cgcmb/monorator_modification.htm
?
Cheers !!!
?
Greg Manning,
?
Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
?
?
?
?
?
?

-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Thomas Koch
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:27 PM
To: Tom Miles; gasification list
Subject: SV: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers

Dear Tom
?
I just spend 30 minutes browsing through some the links you reffer to
checking the material I knew the status of.
My conclusion is that the correlation between reality and written text is
not too impressive.
?
Example: In 1998 IEA task 32 (the combustion task) visited the H?gild and
write that it has been running 2230 hours!! with an efficiency of 80 %.
As far as i know?it has never been running properly and it was scraped some
years ago due to a LOT of technical problems. And measured efficiency was
closer to 0 than to 80.
I?saw an unoffically calculation showing that the cost pr produced kWh at
the H?gild gasifier was close to 10 EURO (13 US$).
?
The pictures shown on the link below show similar technology. I think you
will get severe difficulties in getting your gasifer to last more than a few
houndred hours.??
?
Best regards
?
Thomas Koch
?

_____

Fra: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org p? vegne af Tom Miles
Sendt: ti 28-12-2004 19:08
Til: gasification list
Emne: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers

Two members of our list, Garret Crisler and Greg Manning, have offerred
pictures and descriptions of their gasifiers for discussion. I have placed
pictures and links on the 200 KW CHP pages for discussion. Please see their
information at
?
HYPERLINK
"http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/gasification/200kWCHP.html"http
://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/gasification/200kWCHP.html
?
Post your comments to HYPERLINK
"mailto:gasification at listserv.repp.org"gasification at listserv.repp.org?or
directly to them.
?
Regards,
?
Tom Miles

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From tmiles at trmiles.com Tue Dec 28 15:58:49 2004
From: tmiles at trmiles.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:58:49 -0800
Subject: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers
References: <A1CF906CC309D642B8B9567A4D2D79F1044968@EXCHSERVER.tke.local>
Message-ID: <002b01c4ed2d$8405cb60$6501a8c0@OFFICE3>

Thomas,

When I started the 200 KW CHP pages about a year ago I was hoping to accumulate links and information that would present a reasonably accurate picture of small scale gasification CHP to use as a basis for discussion. I thought at the time that 200 kWe was about the minimum size that you could justify in the US. I think that is now more like 300 kWe.

At the very least I should reorganize the information into gasifiers that we know are operating commercially; those under development; and those that have been abandoned or are questionable.

Information about gasifiers tends to be readily available during the preconstruction (promotion), construction, and initial comissioning phases. Then they tend to fade into history. The average gasifier seems to make it to the "teen age" years but there are few "adults" around still doing useful work.

As we've discussed before on this list it's important to record their current status and why they may or may not be in operation. We rely to some extent on the IEA Task 33 Thermal Gasification of Biomass (Kees Kwant and Harrie Knoef). Their lastest Country Status Report (October 2004) indicates that Hogild was terminated in 2003. http://www.gastechnology.org/iea No details are given.

Suresh Babu and Hermann Hofbauer only listed a couple of small scale CHP units in their review presented in Victoria, August 2004. "Status of and Prospects for Biomass Gasification" http://www.gastechnology.org/webroot/downloads/en/IEA/IEASTCBC804.pdf

We should probably run a forum on the Gasifier Inventory or REPP site where people can put up whatever information they know about the operation of individual gasiifers. That could generate some lively discussion!

Regards,

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Koch
To: Tom Miles ; gasification list
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:26 AM
Subject: SV: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers

Dear Tom

I just spend 30 minutes browsing through some the links you reffer to checking the material I knew the status of.
My conclusion is that the correlation between reality and written text is not too impressive.

Example: In 1998 IEA task 32 (the combustion task) visited the H?gild and write that it has been running 2230 hours!! with an efficiency of 80 %.
As far as i know it has never been running properly and it was scraped some years ago due to a LOT of technical problems. And measured efficiency was closer to 0 than to 80.
I saw an unoffically calculation showing that the cost pr produced kWh at the H?gild gasifier was close to 10 EURO (13 US$).

The pictures shown on the link below show similar technology. I think you will get severe difficulties in getting your gasifer to last more than a few houndred hours.

Best regards

Thomas Koch

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fra: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org p? vegne af Tom Miles
Sendt: ti 28-12-2004 19:08
Til: gasification list
Emne: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers

http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/gasification/200kWCHP.html

Post your comments to gasification at listserv.repp.org or directly to them.

Regards,

Tom Miles
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From praufast at free.fr Tue Dec 28 20:02:36 2004
From: praufast at free.fr (Philippe Raufast)
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 3:2:36 +0100
Subject: [Gasification] updraft gasifiers and reciprocating engines
Message-ID: <20041229020033.CA959173493@postfix3-1.free.fr>

Hello !

"Wellman in the UK, Volund in Denmark and Daneco in Italy all have systems ready for demonstration based on the use of updraft gasifiers and reciprocating engines. Tar removal from the gas is achieved by catalytic cracking. "

Why did they choose catalytic cracking ? I think it will need higher temperatures than the exit temp from an updraft gasifier an need burning a part of the gas for reheating purpose, what a loss of energy !
I think ESP (electrostatic precipitators) are a proven technology and require less energy. Maybe too expensive ?

http://www.elex.ch/E/html/elektrofilter.html

http://www.solios.com/se-uk-article-equip.php3?id_article=142&id_rubrique=47

Is there new developpements with updraft gasifiers and reciprocating engines ?

Can a deeper fuel-bed be used as some sort of pre-cleaning, like olds pine-shells filters ?

Regards, Phil.

From a31ford at inetlink.ca Wed Dec 29 13:42:39 2004
From: a31ford at inetlink.ca (a31ford)
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:42:39 -0600
Subject: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers
In-Reply-To: <41D2ED9C.3010900@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <00ed01c4edde$8e64cd70$1900a8c0@a31server>

Good Day ALL !!
?
In reply to Tom Reed's questions:
?
m3/hr? ?Just got my Dwyer "pitot tube" in the mail today !! (will know very,
very shortly :)
?
ID, ?If you mean Induced Draft, Yes (flare is just a tester..)
?
Generating power? no not yet, key word... "Yet" :)
?
Happy New Year !
?
Greg Manning,
?
Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
?
?

-----Original Message-----
From: TBReed [mailto:tombreed at comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:47 AM
To: a31ford
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers

Dear Greg:

Looks like very good gas.? How many m3/hr?? ID?? Are you generating power??

TOM REED????????????? BEF

a31ford wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: HYPERLINK
"mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org"gasification-bounces at listserv
.repp.org [ HYPERLINK
"mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org"mailto:gasification-bounces at l
istserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of Thomas Koch
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:27 PM
To: Tom Miles; gasification list
Subject: SV: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers

_____

Fra: HYPERLINK
"mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org"gasification-bounces at listserv
.repp.org p? vegne af Tom Miles
Sendt: ti 28-12-2004 19:08
Til: gasification list
Emne: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers

Two members of our list, Garret Crisler and Greg Manning, have offerred
pictures and descriptions of their gasifiers for discussion. I have placed
pictures and links on the 200 KW CHP pages for discussion. Please see their
information at
?
HYPERLINK
"http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/gasification/200kWCHP.html"http
://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/gasification/200kWCHP.html
?
Post your comments to HYPERLINK
"mailto:gasification at listserv.repp.org"gasification at listserv.repp.org?or
directly to them.
?
Regards,
?
Tom Miles

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_______________________________________________
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HYPERLINK
"mailto:Gasification at listserv.repp.org"Gasification at listserv.repp.org
HYPERLINK
"http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification"http://listserv.repp
.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification

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From list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk Wed Dec 29 13:56:18 2004
From: list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk (list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:56:18 +0000
Subject: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers
In-Reply-To: <00ed01c4edde$8e64cd70$1900a8c0@a31server>
References: <41D2ED9C.3010900@comcast.net>
<00ed01c4edde$8e64cd70$1900a8c0@a31server>
Message-ID: <cu26t01agdu64h6ldduc3ia2393ofrkot0@4ax.com>

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:42:39 -0600, a31ford wrote:

>
>Looks like very good gas.? How many m3/hr?? ID?? Are you generating power??
>
>TOM REED????????????? BEF

Yes it looks impressively blue Greg, which I assume equates to few
tars and no free carbon from cracking them in the flame.

AJH

From a31ford at inetlink.ca Wed Dec 29 15:49:00 2004
From: a31ford at inetlink.ca (a31ford)
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:49:00 -0600
Subject: FW: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers
Message-ID: <00fb01c4edf0$352ef3e0$1900a8c0@a31server>

Hello Andrew, and all,

I must assume that the tars to be cracked is one of 3 situations, the
question would be which one(s).

1) Tars are being ejected through the top of the nozzle, with out a chance
of being ignited (to large for ignition, small enough to pass through the
caged fan to get there). (I'll surround the entire burner with steel mesh
screen as a test, simply in that anything smaller would ignite, larger
should collect on the screen, above, or below the flare).

2) Tars are being drawn off in "downstream" condensate.

3) low tar production in the first place ? no, not possible :)

I would have to say a combination of the later 2 items, I do see some tars
in the downstream condensate (oils on the surface of the water) (like old
heated coffee). and a design that is low in tar production in the first
place, NO, I'm not patting myself on the back, It's taken me 3 years to get
to this level, and that has been with MUCH help of MANY people on this list,
you included.

This is the main reason that I post my findings back, simply because it's
the entire lot of you, that have gotten this unit this far in the first
place !

Greg Manning

-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org]On Behalf Of
list at sylva.icuklive.co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:56 PM
To: gasification at listserv.repp.org
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:42:39 -0600, a31ford wrote:

>
>Looks like very good gas.? How many m3/hr?? ID?? Are you generating power??
>
>TOM REED????????????? BEF

Yes it looks impressively blue Greg, which I assume equates to few
tars and no free carbon from cracking them in the flame.

AJH
_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
Gasification at listserv.repp.org
http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification

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From arnt at c2i.net Wed Dec 29 18:36:52 2004
From: arnt at c2i.net (Arnt Karlsen)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:36:52 +0100
Subject: FW: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers
In-Reply-To: <00fb01c4edf0$352ef3e0$1900a8c0@a31server>
References: <00fb01c4edf0$352ef3e0$1900a8c0@a31server>
Message-ID: <20041230013652.5df98ab3.arnt@c2i.net>

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:49:00 -0600, a31ford wrote in message
<00fb01c4edf0$352ef3e0$1900a8c0 at a31server>:

> Hello Andrew, and all,
>
> I must assume that the tars to be cracked is one of 3 situations, the
> question would be which one(s).
>
> 1) Tars are being ejected through the top of the nozzle, with out a
> chance of being ignited (to large for ignition, small enough to pass
> through the caged fan to get there). (I'll surround the entire burner
> with steel mesh screen as a test, simply in that anything smaller
> would ignite, larger should collect on the screen, above, or below the
> flare).

..cold tar vapor drops takes time to burn in cold air.

> 2) Tars are being drawn off in "downstream" condensate.
>
> 3) low tar production in the first place ? no, not possible :)

..well, set up some nice white cloth filter box and find out. ;-)

..if you prefer to filter hot gas, use kaolin wool, it'll do fine up
to about 700-800 centigrades, I used some in my early trials.

..you can also spray cool water into a bubble bath cooler barrel
while sucking gas thru it, some tars will float on top of the water,
som will collect on the barrel walls. I've also played with the tarry
gas before I settled on the tar vapor flare, here I tried detergents
in both water and waste oils, but never diesel oil ;-), and produced
a coupla barrels of a wonderfully stable emulsion goo "that went
missing with the building when we came back to pick it up." ;-)

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.

From arnt at c2i.net Wed Dec 29 18:47:25 2004
From: arnt at c2i.net (Arnt Karlsen)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 01:47:25 +0100
Subject: [Gasification] Comment on Development Gasifiers
In-Reply-To: <00ed01c4edde$8e64cd70$1900a8c0@a31server>
References: <41D2ED9C.3010900@comcast.net>
<00ed01c4edde$8e64cd70$1900a8c0@a31server>
Message-ID: <20041230014725.34b90e81.arnt@c2i.net>

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:42:39 -0600, a31ford wrote in message
<00ed01c4edde$8e64cd70$1900a8c0 at a31server>:

> The unit shown in the link Tom Miles posted, has now been operating
> for 130 hours, with no sign of Tuyere problems, or for that fact, no
> sign of metal problems at all. In fact the only problem is the
> operator, who is VERY judgmental of the unit (me !) Gas production has
> finally "settled" to a regular startup time of around 2 to?4 minutes
> on a continuation of a previous run, and about 12 minutes on a run
> that was "stripped out" examined and refilled.

..12 minutes is waaay too long, something's wrong, moist charcoal?
2-4 minutes is "acceptable".

..here you both refill and start and restart it, both cold and hot, on
what you believe to be bone dry charcoal in the combustion and
reduction zones, right?

..how do you keep your charcoal dry on strip downs?

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.

BioEnergy Lists: Gasifiers & Gasification

December 2004 Gasification Archive