BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

From larcon at sni.net Mon Feb 2 00:11:47 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: forwarded: gasifier stoves
Message-ID: <v01540b01b0fab25a63c9@[204.133.251.2]>

Stovers: This came in yesterday and may generate some queries:

>From: Daniel LeClere <Woodbug.Small.Log.Sawmill.Ltd.@oberon.ark.com>

Hello:
I have built a simple magazine feed diagonal downdraught
with secondary combustion that is thermostaticly controlled
without fans or electicity required.
This stove has heated our house for over 15 years,it has never
had a chimney fire or ran away.
One winter we heated excusivly with green alder ,no creoste.
Check engineering texts you will see that if you burn your
fuel to carbon monoxide you only get i/3 of the calorific
value out of it.
When I installed this stove we took out an Ashley that burned
3 wheelbarrows of wood per day (winter only heat source,wet wood)
the new stove only burned 1 of the same wood.
I also built a small simple sawmill< check it out.

http://oberon.ark.com?~woodbug

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Mon Feb 2 00:11:58 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Forwarded: charcoal production ovens
Message-ID: <v01540b03b0fab45adc3e@[204.133.251.2]>

Stovers: The following was dated today.

Dear Sirs

We have seen in thr internet that you may have knowledge about ovens for
charcoal production . PLS inform us , where in the Europe , close to
Poland there is possibility to purchase ecological ovens for charcoal
production.We would like to start production on the basis of ecological
, highly effective ovens , which we know are produced in Western europe.

Best Regards
Mr Slabon
fax/tel 0048 32 202 83 39
tel 0048 602 71 83 42
telen@polbox.com

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Mon Feb 2 00:13:01 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Forwarded: looking for charcoal sources
Message-ID: <v01540b0ab0faf05bf522@[204.133.251.2]>

Stovers: This is a little out of our area, but maybe someone has some good
ideas. Ron

>From Skip Williams:

I have picked up your name from the CREST site. I am involved in an
attampt to recreate a small bloomery forge here in western virginia. In
our ignorance we have failed to locate information on traditional charcoal
production technique and are therefor looking for commercial sources of
charcoal for our initial attempts at iron smelting. Where may this product
be purchased? And were may I look for information on the charcoal
production techniques?

"Skip Williams" <skip@rockbridge.net>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Mon Feb 2 00:13:22 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Forwarded: The Return of Paul Hait
Message-ID: <v01540b01b0faf9991e4b@[204.133.251.2]>

Stovers - This came to me because Paul has a new address (a second one I
guess), which I have added as well. Ron

Dear Stovers,
1/30/98

I have been away from the list attending to business. The amount of data
that is being gathered by the list continues to amaze me.

Good morning Ronal, Tom , Alex , Art , Tom , Elton , Rogerio, and listers'
etc!

Pyromid survives after a very disappointing funding experience. Our funding
broker failed. And it was good that he did because our family would have
lost control of our company. We still own Pyromid.

We continue to sell to Japan, USA, Europe, and Africa. Our New Patio HTA
Super Grill just sold for $1700.00 and our Hot on the Run pocket stove is a
run away success.The HTA Super Grill uses a maximum of 50 ordinary
briquettes and will cook for three hours for 50 people. The catalytic grill
is 15 in x 30 in and the oven below the Cell Drawer is 6 in x 15 in X 30
in. We sold out on the 12 inch Pyromid with our Christmas mailing. Anybody
interested in a Pyromid for summer camping call LARA at 541-548-1041 or fax
541-923-1004.

I am still working on the foam stove and the HTA World Stove is a part of
our program this year. Self igniting charcoal fuel discs are the answer
when organized in an array. They burn hot and clean and allow for thin
profile cooking systems.Contact me if you want more details.

Rogerio, I still think a Stove Conference would be great. Its goal would be
to come to some practical conclusions after years of back and forth on the
list. The Listers' could set up a research foundation and fund the best
idea of the conference.Then, present the idea to the Feds and get further
support. What do you think of this idea KIRK REED ?

I have an idea for Platten energy stoves using a hole in the ground lined
with Aluminum foil for reflectivity and focus of heat. This may solve the 2
can issue. Tom and Ronal I would like to talk to you about this idea. (
phait@hwy97.net )

Alex, I am designing products in 3D detail on a unique program that I have.
I would like to talk to you about color 3D renderings of all of your Page
Stoves. I will send you an example of my work if you are interested.

I have moved to Broken Top in Bend so my new office phone is
1-541-318-6361. If this letter is of interest give me a call.

Happy New Year !

Sincerely,
Paul Hait
President
Pyromid Inc.

3292 S. HWY 97
Redmond, Oregon 97756
541-548-1041
fax 541-923-1004
phait@hwy97.net

 

 

From bhatta at ait.ac.th Mon Feb 2 03:08:20 1998
From: bhatta at ait.ac.th (Prof. S.C. Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: forwarded: gasifier stoves
In-Reply-To: <v01540b01b0fab25a63c9@[204.133.251.2]>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980202150901.24305A-100000@alphaserv.ait.ac.th>

 

The diagonal downdraft stove mentioned by Mr. LeClere appears to be very
interesting.

Could we have a description of the stove and a photograph or figure?

S.C. Bhattacharya

-------------------------------------------------------------------
S. C. Bhattacharya Voice : (66-2) 524 5403 (Off)
Professor 524 5913 (Res)
Energy Program
Asian Institute of Technology Fax : (66-2) 524 5439
PO Box 4, Klong Luang 516 2126
Pathumthani 12120
Thailand e-mail: bhatta@ait.ac.th
-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

From psn at ibe.dtu.dk Mon Feb 2 05:10:52 1998
From: psn at ibe.dtu.dk (Per S. Nielsen)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Biomass conferences
Message-ID: <98020211174953900@haddock.ibe.dtu.dk>

Dear stovers

I have been on the list for quite a while and read your mails, but
not taken part in the disucssion, due to other works. I am amased the
time you have to keep the discussions going even you ahve no funding
of your projects. I am also in favor on making a conference, but how
about making a small workshop in relation to the biomass conferences
coming up as a "general idea". I would for instance be happy to have
a workshop in relation to the European Workshop on Biomass for Energy
and Industry 8-11 June 1998. I will be there anyway and also present
som of results of our work on a poster.

I will be happy to propose an agenda for a 2-hours meeting, but
the aim of the meeting should basicly be to meet and have some
experience exchange, for us who are there anyway.

Are anybody else going that conference? And do you like the idea and
like to participate just for some hours?

It would for instance increase my interest in participation
on biomass conferences (for instance for me to travel to US for
participating in a Biomass conference), if we has a small workshoop
on wood stoves, just to hear how things are going.

Per S. Nielsen
Per S. Nielsen
Department of Buildings and Energy
Building 118, Technical University of Denmark
2800 Lyngby
psn@ibe.dtu.dk

 

From elk at arcc.or.ke Mon Feb 2 07:22:19 1998
From: elk at arcc.or.ke (E. L. Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: rotating and fluid bed kilns
Message-ID: <v01510104b0f646564beb@[199.2.222.136]>

Stovers;

Further to my quest as to how to carbonise sawdust, can anyone illuminate
me on how or why rotating and fluid bed charcoal making kilns work?

If there's any literature available, I'd really appreciate a few
photocopied pages sent to me at:

Elsen Karstad
P.O. Box 24371
Nairobi
Kenya

Thanks in advance.

elk

_____________________________
Elsen Karstad
P.O Box 24371 Nairobi, Kenya
Tel/Fax:254 2 884437
E-mail: elk@arcc.or.ke
______________________________

 

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Mon Feb 2 11:36:29 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: WWW.WEBPAN.COM/BEF
Message-ID: <199802021141_MC2-3193-47D1@compuserve.com>

Dear Thomas:

To find my gasification database, just type in the address on your browser
line as (at most)

html:// WWW.WEBPAN.COM/BEF

(Probably don't need the httm://)

I have not yet listed my page with the search engines, so that's why you
didn't find it.

If you or any others have a problem finding it, please let me know asap.

Yours truly, TOM REED

>I was naturally interested in your "Database of Biomass Gasification"
but have been unable to find WWW.WEBPAN.COM/BEF via "Infoseek", through
which I immediately find "gasification-list-archive".

Am I looking in the wrong place? Perhaps others are having the same
difficulty.

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Tue Feb 3 10:37:14 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Biomass conferences
Message-ID: <199802031042_MC2-31BD-E031@compuserve.com>

Thomas B. Reed; 303 278 0558 V; ReedTB@Compuserve.Com;
Colorado School of Mines & The Biomass Energy (non-profit)Foundation
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Per:

I hope you will organize a "face to face" meeting at the June European
meeting, but I can't make it. I am looking forward to the time when
everyone's letter has a thumbnail picture in the letterhead. Maybe Ron
Larson will collect a bunch and publish the list (ha!)

It seems to me that we make more progress in these round-the-world E-Mail
messages thank any possible meeting could accomplish. Particularly, check
Alex English's web page to see the astounding work going on.

Yours truly, TOM REED
Message text written by INTERNET:psn@ibe.dtu.dk
>Dear stovers

I have been on the list for quite a while and read your mails, but
not taken part in the disucssion, due to other works. I am amased the
time you have to keep the discussions going even you ahve no funding
of your projects. I am also in favor on making a conference, but how
about making a small workshop in relation to the biomass conferences
coming up as a "general idea". I would for instance be happy to have
a workshop in relation to the European Workshop on Biomass for Energy
and Industry 8-11 June 1998. I will be there anyway and also present
Som of results of our work on a poster.

I will be happy to propose an agenda for a 2-hours meeting, but
the aim of the meeting should basicly be to meet and have some
experience exchange, for us who are there anyway.

Are anybody else going that conference? And do you like the idea and
like to participate just for some hours?

It would for instance increase my interest in participation
on biomass conferences (for instance for me to travel to US for
participating in a Biomass conference), if we has a small workshoop
on wood stoves, just to hear how things are going.

Per S. Nielsen
<

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Tue Feb 3 10:37:27 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Thanks for news
Message-ID: <199802031042_MC2-31BD-E035@compuserve.com>

Thomas B. Reed; 303 278 0558 V; ReedTB@Compuserve.Com;
Colorado School of Mines & The Biomass Energy (non-profit)Foundation
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Paul:

Nice to hear your good news and good sale of charcoal stoves.

Most of us are trying to solve "cooking with wood-gas" to avoid the
wasteful charcoal making process.

You referred to KIRK REED. Could that have been KIRK SMITH plus TOM REED?
Yes, would love to have a world WOOD-GAS stove conference to sort out
progress and plan future.

Yours, TOM REED

 

From phoenix at transport.com Tue Feb 3 11:05:00 1998
From: phoenix at transport.com (Art Krenzel)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: forwarded: gasifier stoves
Message-ID: <199802031612.IAA17342@mail2.transport.com>

Has anyone else had a problem accessing Daniel's web page? I keep coming
up with a canadian web service.

Art Krenzel
----------
> From: Ronal W. Larson <larcon@sni.net>
> To: stoves@crest.org
> Cc: Daniel LeClere <Woodbug.Small.Log.Sawmill.Ltd.@oberon.ark.com>
> Subject: forwarded: gasifier stoves
> Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 9:26 PM
>
> Stovers: This came in yesterday and may generate some queries:
>
> >From: Daniel LeClere <Woodbug.Small.Log.Sawmill.Ltd.@oberon.ark.com>
>
> Hello:
> I have built a simple magazine feed diagonal downdraught
> with secondary combustion that is thermostaticly controlled
> without fans or electicity required.
> This stove has heated our house for over 15 years,it has never
> had a chimney fire or ran away.
> One winter we heated excusivly with green alder ,no creoste.
> Check engineering texts you will see that if you burn your
> fuel to carbon monoxide you only get i/3 of the calorific
> value out of it.
> When I installed this stove we took out an Ashley that burned
> 3 wheelbarrows of wood per day (winter only heat source,wet wood)
> the new stove only burned 1 of the same wood.
> I also built a small simple sawmill< check it out.
>
> http://oberon.ark.com?~woodbug

 

From elk at arcc.or.ke Tue Feb 3 12:09:48 1998
From: elk at arcc.or.ke (Elsen L. Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: woodbug
Message-ID: <199802031715.UAA04272@arcc.or.ke>

>Has anyone else had a problem accessing Daniel's web page? I keep coming
>up with a canadian web service.
>
>Art Krenzel

Alta Vista search on 'woodbug' brought me back to:

http://oberon.ark.com/~woodbug/

rgds;

elk

 

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Elsen L. Karstad
P.O. Box 24371
Nairobi, Kenya

Fax/Tel (+ 254 2) 884436
Tel (+ 254 2) 891531

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Tue Feb 3 19:06:35 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Forward: Charcoal Production
Message-ID: <v01540b00b0fc57acdf5c@[204.133.251.24]>

Stovers: I am stopping about one sales item (always a stove) per day. But
this is a very different item for sale. Given the many discussions we have
had on making charcoal, maybe this will be of interest to someone on the
list. More importantly it gives some idea of the equipment needs for
fairly large scale briquette production.

Ron

 

Greetings-

This may or may not be an area pertaining to your interests. I see
your posts on the crest group. I'm trying to find the market for a
charcoal manufacturing plant in Chetopa, Kansas. Here is the
information. Are you interested or can you steer me to anyone who
might be?
Thanks for your help.

We have a complete operational charcoal briquette manufacturing plant
with a practical operating capacity of 6 tons per 8 hour work shift.
Would any or all of this be of interest to you?

approx. 200 Tons of bagged charcoal briquettes

1-1 ton per hour continuous commercial dryer, 2 million BTU per hour,
operates very well.
priced @ $62,500.

3-80 cord beehive kilns
1-separator (new belts)
1-12 inch auger(new belts)
1-3 ton rough storage bin and auger
1-auger to hammermill
1-Jeffrey's pulverizer/hammermill
1-Auger from hammermill to fines bin(new belts)
1-1.5 ton fines bin
1-auger to mixer
1-starch feeder (bin and auger)
1-mixer/pug mill (20 hp motor)(new main bearing and chain, oil changed
in gearbox July 1997
1-belt conveyor to briquette press
1-briquette press capacity 1.5 tons per hr.
1-chain conveyor to dryer
1-chain conveyor from dryer to bucket elevator
1-bucket elevator(new chain and motor rewound July, 1997)
1-25 ton storage bin with Syntron vibrator feeder
1-weighpacker
1-bag closer with Union Special 60,0000 D sewing head totally rebuilt
in May 1997
Thread and closing tape
1-moisture testing machine
Excluding the dryer, the above are for sale for $70,000.

These are all located in Chetopa, Kansas

Also -
8 acres of property
5,000 sq.ft. production area
30,000 sq.ft. warehouse with 3 loading dock.
$80,000 for real estate

You may email me at young@micoks.net or call at 785.869.2143.

Russell Davis
Owner
American Charcoal Works Inc.

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Tue Feb 3 19:06:44 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Forwarded: Request for Quotation
Message-ID: <v01540b04b0fc5e3267b3@[204.133.251.24]>

Stovers: This is again a little out of our line - but maybe of help to
some list member?? Ron

Text item: Text_1

CASL Ref: C7 7/04300

Is there anyone out there who may be able to help with sourcing a
charcoal carbonisation plant. A client in Ghana hopes to convert wood
offcuts into charcoal. The charcoal production plant shall be:

Type: Carbonisation Furnace
Capacity: 1,000 tonnes charcoal per year

Any help would be much appreciated.

Please reply to:

Jack Diggle
for Crown Agents Services Limited.

Tel: (+44) 181 710 6193
Fax: (+44) 181 770 0408

PROC!JDiggle@cagate.attmail.com (Jack Diggle)

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Tue Feb 3 19:06:52 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Forwarded: looking for charcoal sources
Message-ID: <v01540b03b0fc5c970721@[204.133.251.24]>

Stovers: The following came in from Auke Koopmans. Ron

Try http://www.indianapolis.in.us/cp/fuel.html for a history of charcoal
making in the US. It was written by Timothy Crumrin from Conner prairie
Museum in Fishers, Indiana. Timothy is a certified journeyman collier
and will be able to help with traditional charcoal making technologies

----------
From: larcon@sni.net [SMTP:larcon@sni.net]
Sent: Monday, February 02, 1998 12:28 PM
To: stoves@crest.org
Cc: Skip Williams
Subject: Forwarded: looking for charcoal sources

Stovers: This is a little out of our area, but maybe someone
has some good
ideas. Ron

From Skip Williams:

I have picked up your name from the CREST site. I am involved
in an
attampt to recreate a small bloomery forge here in western
virginia. In
our ignorance we have failed to locate information on
traditional charcoal
production technique and are therefor looking for commercial
sources of
charcoal for our initial attempts at iron smelting. Where may
this product
be purchased? And were may I look for information on the
charcoal
production techniques?

"Skip Williams" <skip@rockbridge.net>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From bhatta at ait.ac.th Tue Feb 3 22:19:36 1998
From: bhatta at ait.ac.th (Prof. S.C. Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: woodbug
In-Reply-To: <199802031715.UAA04272@arcc.or.ke>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980204101743.22125F-100000@alphaserv.ait.ac.th>

 

I had no problem accessing the web page. However, it has no information on
the natural draft gasifier stove Mr. LeClere mentioned in his original
posting. Such information should be of much interest to the stove group.
(Are you connected, Mr. LeClere?)

S.C. Bhattacharya

-------------------------------------------------------------------
S. C. Bhattacharya Voice : (66-2) 524 5403 (Off)
Professor 524 5913 (Res)
Energy Program
Asian Institute of Technology Fax : (66-2) 524 5439
PO Box 4, Klong Luang 516 2126
Pathumthani 12120
Thailand e-mail: bhatta@ait.ac.th
-------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Elsen L. Karstad wrote:

> >Has anyone else had a problem accessing Daniel's web page? I keep coming
> >up with a canadian web service.
> >
> >Art Krenzel
>
> Alta Vista search on 'woodbug' brought me back to:
>
> http://oberon.ark.com/~woodbug/
>
> rgds;
>
>
> elk
>
>
>
>
> """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
> Elsen L. Karstad
> P.O. Box 24371
> Nairobi, Kenya
>
> Fax/Tel (+ 254 2) 884436
> Tel (+ 254 2) 891531
>

 

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Wed Feb 4 01:30:44 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: a charcoaling history
Message-ID: <v01540b06b0fdb3a6b096@[204.133.251.25]>

Stovers -

Yesterday I had the pleasure of reading a recent doctoral thesis
devoted to the methods in the United States of 110 - 120 years ago for
making huge amounts of charcoal for a smelter. The author was Dr. Ronald
Reno and the thesis was in (industrial) anthropology from the University of
Nevada. This was full of detail and I have ordered an even larger, longer
earlier report after talking to him. Like all US theses, his is available
from University Microfilms. His address: P.O. Box 550, Silver City, Nev.
89428.

One big surprise to me was that the charcoal "ranchers" (mostly
Swiss-Italians) often started their charcoaling with a major central wooden
"chimney" that was top lit (but then these embers fell to the bottom of the
chimney). The charcoal "burners" kept loading the chimney with fuel until
the chimney was totally full of embers at which time they closed the
chimney and the charcoaling occurred outward - somewhat like the two-can
design. They did NOT start at the outside bottom.

Dr. Reno reports also on another less-used design for charcoal
making that was a long rectangular trough lit at one end. This is my
interpretation of most rural charcoal-making today. It is unlike the
above circular design or the top-lit charcoal-making stoves designs

These makers also had access to both metal and brick/stone kilns -
but both were mostly rejected in favor of the in situ earth covered sites -
apparently most were only used once, in order to avoid the movement of the
wood. Lots of statistics are given for the amount of charcoal produced per
person - in a highly competitive situation. The charcoal from the earthen
kilns was considered of higher quality - largely because of the longer time
used with the earth kilns.

These "ranchers" paid no attention to sustainability and moved on
as soon as the wood was exhausted - a few years at any one site - generally
paying nothing for the land that was viewed as a "farm" or "ranch" for
taxation purposes.

I shall try to provide more data after I obtain the larger report.
Does anyone know of any similar historical survey? Any specific questions?

Regards Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From panalytics at juno.com Wed Feb 4 11:03:12 1998
From: panalytics at juno.com (Nikhil Desai)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: stoves-digest V1 #372
In-Reply-To: <199802040700.CAA11333@solstice.crest.org>
Message-ID: <19980204.110706.12398.15.panalytics@juno.com>

A couple of questions if someone can help me out:

1. Who might be a good person to speak to on the Indian stoves program
and its real nuts-and-bolts? I have a recent plan document with names of
committee members but I figure some administrator or researcher type
would know the real story.

2. Anybody familiar with any references on the stoves effort in Malawi?

Thanks

Nikhil Desai

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Wed Feb 4 19:26:41 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Charcoal production
Message-ID: <v01540b00b0feb813722e@[204.133.251.25]>

Stovers: Anyone able to help? Ron

>I am seeking information on kilns & processes to produce charcoal from
>hardwood. Any help you can provide would be most appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dan Woodbury
>Dummerston, Vermont
>woodbury@sover.net
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Thu Feb 5 01:04:07 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Forwarded: Indian Stoves Program
Message-ID: <v01540b00b0febe76f261@[204.133.251.6]>

Stovers - This came to me becaue Nikhil is signed up only for
stoves-digest. Ron

A couple of questions if someone can help me out:

1. Who might be a good person to speak to on the Indian stoves program
and its real nuts-and-bolts? I have a recent plan document with names of
committee members but I figure some administrator or researcher type
would know the real story.

2. Anybody familiar with any references on the stoves effort in Malawi?

Thanks

Nikhil Desai

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Fri Feb 6 08:25:05 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Charcoal Production
Message-ID: <199802060830_MC2-3234-1E3D@compuserve.com>

Thomas B. Reed; 303 278 0558 V; ReedTB@Compuserve.Com;
Colorado School of Mines & The Biomass Energy (non-profit)Foundation
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Russell:

I am forwarding your plant information to the GASIFICATION and STOVE groups
of quest, where there is interest in charcoal.

Yours truly, Tom Reed
~~~~
Message text written by "young"
>
Greetings-
Would any of this be of interest to you? This may or may not be an
area pertaining to your interests. I see
your posts on the crest group. I'm trying to find the market for a
charcoal manufacturing plant in Chetopa, Kansas. Here is the
information. Are you interested or can you steer me to anyone who
might be?
Thanks for your help.

We have a complete operational charcoal briquette manufacturing plant
with a practical operating capacity of 6 tons per 8 hour work shift.

approx. 200 Tons of bagged charcoal briquettes

1-1 ton per hour continuous commercial dryer, 2 million BTU per hour,
operates very well.
priced @ $62,500.

3-80 cord beehive kilns
1-separator (new belts)
1-12 inch auger(new belts)
1-3 ton rough storage bin and auger
1-auger to hammermill
1-Jeffrey's pulverizer/hammermill
1-Auger from hammermill to fines bin(new belts)
1-1.5 ton fines bin
1-auger to mixer
1-starch feeder (bin and auger)
1-mixer/pug mill (20 hp motor)(new main bearing and chain, oil changed
in gearbox July 1997
1-belt conveyor to briquette press
1-briquette press capacity 1.5 tons per hr.
1-chain conveyor to dryer
1-chain conveyor from dryer to bucket elevator
1-bucket elevator(new chain and motor rewound July, 1997)
1-25 ton storage bin with Syntron vibrator feeder
1-weighpacker
1-bag closer with Union Special 60,0000 D sewing head totally rebuilt
in May 1997
Thread and closing tape
1-moisture testing machine
Excluding the dryer, the above are for sale for $70,000.

These are all located in Chetopa, Kansas

Also -
8 acres of property
5,000 sq.ft. production area
30,000 sq.ft. warehouse with 3 loading dock.
$80,000 for real estate

You may email me at young@micoks.net or call at 785.869.2143.

Russell Davis
Owner
American Charcoal Works Inc.

 

 

<

 

 

From english at adan.kingston.net Sat Feb 7 07:51:26 1998
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Wood Gas Stove
In-Reply-To: <199802070604.MAA04661@lakdiva.slt.lk>
Message-ID: <199802071256.HAA20662@adan.kingston.net>

Dear Mr Joseph,

> Attn: Dr. Alex English
>
It is a great pleasure for a university drop out to be mistaken for a
"Dr."

> Our organization called the Energy Conservation Fund of the Sri Lanka
> government, is entrusted with the task of identifying and promoting energy
> efficient projects in Sri Lanka. In this respect, we wish to promote the
> Wood Gas Stove developed by The Biomass Energy Foundation. We read about
> this stove in the "Energy for Sustainable Development - Volume II No. 2.
> July 1996" issue.

Having not read this issue I am not certain which of the various
wood gas stoves you are referring to. The Biomass Energy Foundation is
run by Tom Reed, the moderator of this list. He and Ronal Larson, the
moderator of the 'stoves list', have been working on this the
longest. Elsen Karstad of Kenya (<elk@arcc.or.ke>) has a practical
working design . My work is experimental and ongoing. I think it
will take me another year or so to see if a practical design
will grow out of the approach I have been taking.

>
> We shall be very much thankful to you if arrangements are made to obtain
> detailed drawings of this stove so that we could take necessary steps to
> promote the use of this stove in the many millions of households in Sri Lanka.

> Please advice me on the method of acquiring a set of drawings of this stove.

For more information you can visit the web site included in my
signature below.
> You may send a reply by e-mail to: ecfujd@slt.lk
>
> P.G.Joseph
> General Manager
> Energy Conservation Fund
> Room 2-203, BMICH
> Baudhaloka Mawatha,
> Colombo 7,
> Sri Lanka.
>
>
>

______________
Alex English
RR 2 Odessa Ontario
Canada K0H 2H0
Tel 1-613-386-1927
Fax 1-613-386-1211
Stoves Web Site http://www1.kingston.net/~english/Stoves.html

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Sun Feb 8 15:21:14 1998
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Bioenergy Email Lists and Commands
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980208122507.009fb528@mail.teleport.com>

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Moderator: Tom Miles <tmiles@teleport.com>
Archive:
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Digest: bioenergy-digest@crest.org

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From larcon at sni.net Mon Feb 9 23:00:44 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: For charcoaling sawdust: a "Herreschoff" furnace?
Message-ID: <v01540b02b105804d90ae@[204.133.251.15]>

In my reading, I cam across something that may be promising for
what Elsen Karstad is trying to do with sawdust. In the 1974 FAO book
"Charcoal" by D.E. Earl, there are favorable comments about using a
"Herreschoff" furnace. Earl says (p19):

"This furnace can carbonize chips of any organic material,
including sawdust and bark, with moisture content below 45%. The raw
material is moved down through the furnace spirally by means of arms
carried on a vertical rotating shaft and is met by rising hot gases, which
after the initial start are evolved from the furnace."

This description is not very complete, Can anyone on this list
provide any further description on the "Herreschoff"?

Maybe especially list member Miguel Trossero? (who is at FAO.)
Might Mr. Earl still be able to answer this question? Or might the FAO
records be good on finding out more?.

Thanks to anyone on the list who can give some further guidance on
how this "furnace" operatied for converting charcoal.

Regards Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Tue Feb 10 08:07:26 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: GAS-L: NREL Technology Characterizations
Message-ID: <199802100812_MC2-32B2-FF5B@compuserve.com>

Thomas B. Reed; 303 278 0558 V; ReedTB@Compuserve.Com;
Colorado School of Mines & The Biomass Energy (non-profit)Foundation
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Jim Arcate and Gasification:

I was very glad to read the "Technology Characterizations" on the web site
and am sorry to hear that they have been taken off.

I am also surprised that they are being sold for $50. I sell 200-300 page
books on gasification for $25, xeroxed 15-20 at a time with nice bindings.

Maybe they are trying to pay salary out of publication costs?

The Federal Government in general has a terible publication policy. They
are willing to spend $100k to $2 M on a project, then print up <200 copies
for distribution, mostly to their friends. The WWW now gives them a change
to change this policy, but they are moving in the opposite direction at
$50/copy.

Personally, I have no desire to read a 100 page report on the WWW - or to
print it out - or to pay $50/each. However, no one said this was a perfect
world, but it keeps improving.

I hope they will put them back on the www.

Regards, TOM REED

PS (After second note) Glad to know where they are available.
~~~~
Message text written by INTERNET:gasification@crest.org
>Gasification Discussion Group:

Did you notice that the "Technology Characterizations" have been taken off
the web.

Per Kevin Craig at NREL: those on the web were drafts and EPRI is now
selling the finals (EPRI TR-109496) for $50. EPRI was a legitimate partner
in review & finalization, and did the printing. The $50 probably covers
production & distribution costs.

I told Craig I think that anyone who wants a hard copy should pay for it.
But a Web version for the world to share should also be available, just
like
all the other valuable information NREL has on the web.

Maybe members could ask NREL to put it back up, e.g., after their limited
supply of $50 finals are sold.

Jim Arcate
<
Just to clear up a minor misunderstanding. NREL doesn't have any
TC's
for sale. EPRI has them available through their usual publication
channel:

EPRI Distribution Center
207 Coggins Dr.
P.O. Box 23205
Pleasant Hill, CA 94523
(510) 934-4212

The copyright on the publication is joint between EPRI and DOE.
There
is a note in the report under "Ordering Information" that states
"unlimited copying permissible."

I will try to determine if "unlimited copying" applies to
electronic
forms as well. If so, we will try to get an electronic copy of at
least the biomass portion to post on the Biopower website.

Thanks for your interest.

Kevin

 

From larcon at sni.net Wed Feb 11 00:37:35 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: The Herreshof furnace
Message-ID: <v01540b01b106e6d3ae66@[204.133.251.46]>

Stovers: In response to my request for information on the "Herreshof", we
received the following fast and wonderful description from "Koopmans, Auke
(FAORAP)" <Auke.Koopmans@fao.org> (FAO-RWEDP-Bangkok). This comes from
the FAO publication "Industrial charcoal making" FAO Forestry Paper no. 63.
Unfortunately I conclude that Elsen will still have to keep
looking. This seems too complex and expensive for Elsen's desired
application, but hopefully Elsen might be able to modify or use parts of
the ideas.

Thank you, Auke. Ron

The Rotary Hearth Furnace

The rotary hearth furnace is a proven method for carbonizing small particle
size wood and bark. The charcoal is produced in powdered form. This type
of furnace is also known as the Herreshoff roaster. It was developed in
the metallurgical industry for roasting sulphide ores many years ago.
Unlike the other two carbonisers described earlier the Herreshoff furnace
will not operate with wood in slab or round form. The feed must be in the
form of moderately fine particles such as sawdust or bark fragments.
Agricultural residues such as seed hulls and shell fragments can also be
processed.

The furnace consists of four to six circular refractory hearths stacked one
above the other. The hearths are about six to eight meters in diameter.
The large furnaces have six hearths and the smaller units four. The
hearths are supported in a cylindrical refractory lined shell and are
constructed with the underside domed so that the hearth is self-supporting.
Each hearth has a central hole through which passes a hollow shaft and at
each hearth, a set of rabble arms are fixed to it. These arms are hollow
so that the whole raking system can be cooled blowing air through it. The
ploughs attached to the arms just clear the hearth surface and as the arms
turn slowly, at one to two revolutions per minute, the ploughs turn the
feedstock over and move it across the hearths. The ploughs are arranged so
that those on one hearth move the material away from the center towards the
edge where it falls through an opening to the hearth below. The ploughs on
this hearth cause the material to move to the center where it falls through
the central opening on to the hearth below. In this way the material
slowly moves through the system whilst being constantly turned over to be
exposed to the combustion air passing through the furnace from the bottom
to the top.

The furnace is started using gas or oil burners on each hearth to raise the
temperature to about 600 oC causing the feedstock to ignite. When the
furnace reaches normal operating temperature of 900 to 1000 oC the burners
are turned off. Once the furnace is lit it must operate continuously 24
hours per day. The rate of admission of air is regulated so that the wood
carbonizes and Leaves the furnace as fine charcoal. The gases produced are
a mixture of wood gas, tar, pyroligneous acid condensibles and water vapor
and as such form a highly polluting mixture. After it emerges from the top
of the furnace it can be burned directly under boilers for process steam or
power. Otherwise the gases must be burned and the flue gas vented to
atmosphere in tall stacks to avoid environmental pollution since
installations of this kind for economic reasons are almost always Located
in closely settled areas.

The charcoal leaving the furnace must be cooled to avoid spontaneous
combustion. This is carried out by passing the charcoal slowly through a
horizontal steel cylinder equipped with paddles which lift the charcoal and
allow it to contact the walls which are cooled with a water spray. The
cooled charcoal is stored in a hopper sufficient to hold two or three days
supply for the briquetting plant, a necessary adjunct to such a furnace.

The amount of wood or other residues needed to keep the furnace going is
quite large. A small unit requires about 4 tons of oven dry residue per
hour and the larger units about ten tons per hour. Capacity is influenced
by the moisture content of the feedstock as, in all carbonizing systems.
The above quantities will yield about 1 to 2.5 tons per hour of charcoal
providing the moisture content-is about 45% of the green weight. This adds
up to about 9000 to 21000 tons of waste per year yielding 2200 to 5200 tons
of fine charcoal. This fine charcoal has few uses in this form and hence
must be briquetted. As a rough rule the briquetting operation doubles the
cost of the fine charcoal (see Chapter 6 and Refs 3 and 22).

Herreshoff roasters have been successful when attached to large saw and
plywood mills in the south of the USA where the conjunction of an adequate
raw material supply in the form of bark and sawdust and the proximity of a
sophisticated urban barbecue market provides a profitable combination.

Although it would be theoretically possible to recover the pyroligneous
condensates from the off gas stream for chemical recovery economic factors
seem unfavorable and hence the gases are either burned for power or merely
burned to waste.

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Wed Feb 11 00:37:39 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Forwarded: stove manufacturer request
Message-ID: <v01540b02b106e9b75c42@[204.133.251.46]>

Stovers: This seems like a sufficiently worthy request. How about e-mail
addresses especially and web sites? Ron

>
>Can anyone help in providing me addresses of companies that sell or
>manufacture wood burning cook stoves. Either in the States or Canada.
>

from ROBERT SAIFF <SAIFFR@nimo.com>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From greenland2.glr at dial.pipex.com Wed Feb 11 03:27:23 1998
From: greenland2.glr at dial.pipex.com (GLR)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: VIRUS WARNIG
Message-ID: <01BD36C7.66F49A20@ad012.du.pipex.com>

VIRUS WARNING !!!!!!

If you receive an email titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT open it.
It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this letter out
to as many people as you can. This is a new, very malicious virus and
not many people know about it. This information was announced
yesterday morning from IBM; please share it with everyone that might
access the internet. Once again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your
address book so that this may be stopped. Also, do not open or even
look at any mail that says "RETURNED OR UNABLE TO DELIVERY" This virus
will attach itself to your computer components and render them
useless. Immediately delete any mail items that say this. AOL has said
that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is NO remedy for it
at this time. Please practice cautionary measures and forward this to
all your online friends ASAP.

Kind regards
Jerry Boezel
Manager, WW Marketing, Large Systems Storage
Storage Systems Division
5600 Cottle Road, San Jose, CA 95193 USA; dept. P22/010 office 426
Phone (408) 256 5007, Fax (408) 256 7821. Secretary: Sue Peres at (408) 256
5063 or IBMUSM51(SUEPERES)

 

 

 

From greenland2.glr at dial.pipex.com Wed Feb 11 05:00:26 1998
From: greenland2.glr at dial.pipex.com (GLR)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: VIRUS WARNING
Message-ID: <01BD36D4.7A875CA0@ag206.du.pipex.com>

The virus warning posted earlier appears to be a Hoax.

Please ignore.

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Wed Feb 11 08:02:37 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: The "Herreschoff" furnace
Message-ID: <199802110807_MC2-32DF-C1D0@compuserve.com>

Thomas B. Reed; 303 278 0558 V; ReedTB@Compuserve.Com;
Colorado School of Mines & The Biomass Energy (non-profit)Foundation
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Ron et al:

For your information, the Herreschoff charcoal furnace is also knows as a
"rotary hearth retort. It is a large cylindrical heated vessel with many
horizontal plates and arms that sweep the wood to the edge, then the center
at each higher temperature level. They have one at Hazen Research (44th
and Indiana) that you can rent.

You can read about it and all other aspects of commercial charcoal making
in "industrial Charcoal Making", FAO Forestry Paper #63, 1985, 133 pages,
probably available in the U.S. at the U.N. (Will someone check out UN at
WWW?). Cost probably $10.

I recommend this to all interested in charcoal.

Regards, TOM REED

 

From larcon at sni.net Thu Feb 12 19:30:19 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: stove manufacturer request
Message-ID: <v01540b02b1090a366847@[204.133.251.38]>

Stovers and (especially) stove list readers:

The following messages came in to answer the question from Robert Saiff:

A. From list member John Crouch <crouchpa@ix.netcom.com>:

Elmira Stove Works
Waterloo, ON, Canada
www.elmirastoveworks.com

Heartland Appliance
Kitchener, ON, Canada
www.heartlandapp.com

Waterford Irish Stoves
North American Distribution
West Lebanon, NH, USA
www.waterfordstoves.com
http://www.waterfordstoves.com/stanley.html

I'm afraid they are all rather fancy, and certainly not relevant to the
developing world, but the list may be of interest to others.

John Crouch
Hearth Products Association
CA, USA

B. And another:

Your request for wood cookstoves was forwarded to an internet hearth
products dealer group we belong to.

We sell two different brands of wood cookstoves on our internet catalog
site. To view them, go to http://www.nas.com/~chimneysweep/kitchen.htm and
click on the thumbnails for pictures, options and pricing.

At your service,
Tom Oyen
THE CHIMNEY SWEEP, INC.
chimneysweep@nas.com

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Fri Feb 13 15:53:29 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:48 2004
Subject: Forwarded: sawdust briquette charcoal
Message-ID: <v01540b05b10a3928b8ea@[204.133.251.13]>

Stovers: The following came in following Elsen's request for ideas on
making charcoal from sawdust. I have signed Jiah Jin up for the "stoves"
list and taken the liberty of ading a few questions.

(Jiah Jh) <jiajih@mbox4.singnet.com.sg> said:

>We have found your e-mail address from web.
>We are one the biggest sawdust briquette charcoal producer in this
>region.
>Our briquettes are produced from natural mixed tropical wood sawdust
>under high temperature and pressure. No binder has been added for our
>briquette.

(RWL): This description was not clear. Are you first producing
the briquette from sawdust and then converting to charcoal? Or are you
first producing the charcoal and then using pressure to produce the
briquette? In either case, I'm sure our list would appreciate hearing
more about both parts of the process.

>We have two similar factories in Malaysia using Korean technology. Each
>factory is capable of comsuming 450 cubic meters of raw fresh saw dust
>more about 140 metric ton per day. It is a good method of disposing the
>sawdust and in return producing the smokeless, high caloric value
>charcoal. Being void of chemical binding agent is our plus point in
>direct cooking , like barbecue.

>Regretably we have not perfected the method to reduce the pollution
>during the process of carbonisation and the process in heating and
>drying up the sawdust.

(RWL): For the last two years, reducing pollution has been a key
topic on the "stoves" list - both for stoves and for charcoal-making. At
your scale of operation, I would think that you would be able to flare the
pyrolysis gases and possibly even to find a prospective use for them. Are
you presently only venting them? I think our list might be able to supply
ideas on reducing the pollution after we better understand your production
techniques. Many of us are trying also to find ways to capture the energy
value of the "pollution".

>
>We are very interested to exchange views and information with regard to
>this field.
>
>We welcome all those who are keen on this subject.
>
>Yoke Loong ,Chai

(RWL): Jia Jih - we also are interested in exchanging views and
information. Thank you for contacting us. Please also translate for us
your last phrase "Yoke Loong ,Chai"

Regards Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Mon Feb 16 14:35:24 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Forwarded: Charcoal making in Malaysia
Message-ID: <v01540b03b10e388e289e@[204.133.251.4]>

Stovers: Concerning the request for dialog coming in last week from Jia
Jih in Singapore. I have taken the liberty of adding a few questions for
Dr. Chai who sent me the following response to my questions for his son.
Ron

(Dr. Chai):
>Thank you for the prompt reply and for signing me for the stove mail
>list.
>Jia JIh is my son studying in Singapore <snip> In future just send to
>ycp@tm.net.my.

>I am a dental surgeon by profession and have started this sawdust
>briquette charcoal busy together with two other Malaysian friends and a
>Korean partner for about 3 years.
>Our productions are 100% sold to my Korean partner who has about 50% of
>the Korean charcoal market.
>
>We process the sawdust briquette by drying the raw sawdust to about 5%
>MC before passing through heated screw extruder under high pressure. The
>regular briquettes are then carbonised in kilns built in rolls. Each
>process from sawdust to carbonisation will take about 72 hours and
>another 48 hours for cooling before they are packed in carton boxes for
>sales.

(RWL): Several questions: 1) On extrusion:
a. Could you describe a bit more about the extruder and any difficulty you
may have had with it. I ask on behalf of Elsen Karstad who has found this
to be difficult in small scale in Nairobi.
b. What cost, power levels, sources for this extruder?
c. Do you believe extrusion could be manually performed in small scale
operations?
d. Is the drying critical for reducing friction or for creating the
correct final texture and strength or both?
e. Could you give the dimensions of the final extrusion?
f. In our charcoaling efforts using small stoves, I believe that cylinders
of diameter 2 to 3 cm would be quite feasible. Would this be easier or
harder for your extruder?
g. In your final costs, can you estimate the relative expense of the
drying, extrusion and charcoaling operations. Would you find it attractive
to sell the sawdust briquette rather than the charcoal?

2) on the charcoaling:
a) You used the phrase above: "carbonised in kilns built in rolls". Could
you give some idea of the size of the kilns. How many operating at one
time?
b) Are these heated internally or externally?
c) Is this a batch operation or continuous?

3) On pollution:
a. Jia Jih said:
>Regretably we have not perfected the method to reduce the pollution
>during the process of carbonisation and the process in heating and
>drying up the sawdust.
(RWL): Is this the main reason you have contacted this list?
b. Have there been attempts to flare the pyrolysis gases and what have
been the results of any such attempts?
c. Several members on our list have been looking into top-lighting of the
pyrolysis process, in which case there is no distinct drying period (all
periods are roughly the same) and the pyrolysis gases never have too much
moisture to be flared. Might this direction be fruitful for your
operation?
d. Are there any other possible uses nearby for the pyrolysis gases
(brickmaking, ceramics, bakeries, etc)?

>
>We are keen to exchange information and become friends.
>
>If there is any other web site that is of use to us kindly help to get
>in touch.

(RWL): Stovers? Any recommendations? This list seems to have
inherited much of the discussion on charcoal making
>
>Thank you
>
>Dr.Chai, Yoke Loong
>
>(yoke loong, chai is my name where the American always put the surname
>at the back , but for Malaysian Chinese it is in front)
>

(RWL):
Dr. Chai - I am sorry for having to ask so many detailed questions above.
Some are intended to be helpful for Elsen Karstad (both briquetting and
charcoal making). Others are to see about the briquetting of the sawdust
and subsequent use in "wood" stoves (that are possibly also
charcoal-making). Others are to try to address the issue of cleaner
production of charcoal. I believe this latter is a very important topic in
the world today - as we hear that many places are now prohibiting such
operation.

Thank you for joining and we look forward to working together for
better charcoal production. Regards Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From english at adan.kingston.net Mon Feb 16 22:51:13 1998
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Ten Can Stove
Message-ID: <199802170357.WAA13677@adan.kingston.net>

Dear Stovers,
Richard Boyt's Ten Can Stove is now shown in a couple of drawings on
the web. Just go to the web address below and click on the ' New'
link.

Alex

______________
Alex English
RR 2 Odessa Ontario
Canada K0H 2H0
Tel 1-613-386-1927
Fax 1-613-386-1211
Stoves Web Site http://www1.kingston.net/~english/Stoves.html

 

From larcon at sni.net Tue Feb 17 15:48:34 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Forwarded: Verhaart on Charcoal making
Message-ID: <v01540b00b10f681a8810@[204.133.251.42]>

(Ron):
Stovers - the following came in from Piet Verhaart on briquetting. I hope
someone can jump in on the details of the rotating drum method and perhaps
especially how briquettes of sawdust might stand up in later conversion to
charcoal. I have seen briquettes of charcoal made in this way (in Sudan)
and was told that they were preferred over natural charcoal (diameter about
3-4 cm).

(Piet):
About extruding sawdust briquettes. Way back in the late seventies there
was a project in Bandung, Indonesia, where I saw an extruder in action.
Solid chunks were produced from rice husks. A kind of sausage emerged from
the machine, crackling and smoking. The cohesion is caused by high pressure
and high temperature, all resulting from a high mechanical power input.

The answer to your question whether this could be done manually is No, not
even after ingesting several cans of spinach.

Has anybody ever tried making sawdust briquettes with some cheap starch as
binder? I seem to remember reading or hearing of spontaneous formation of
spherical conglomerates in a rotating drum, the size being dependent on the
plasticity of the mix.

I would expect sawdust briquettes of between 15 - 30 mm diameter to perform
excellently in my downdraft barbecue.

So much for now, breakfast is beckoning.

Ever onward.

Piet

Peter Verhaart, 6 McDonald St. Gracemere Q 4702 Australia
Phone: +61 7 4933 1761; fax: +61 7 4933 1761 or
+61 7 4933 2112 (when computer is on)
E-mail p.verhaart@cqu.edu.au

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Tue Feb 17 15:49:05 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Forwarded: Boyt on 10-can stove
Message-ID: <v01540b02b10f919f4980@[204.133.251.42]>

Stovers:
This is to forward more on the 10-can stove that Alex announced
today was on his web site. I also have had a nice telephone conversation
with the developer, Richard Boyt. Since his contact with this list is
through his son, Dave, and Richard probably doesn't want to blow his own
horn, I follow his remarks with some of my (highly favorable) thoughts on
his efforts as well as a few more questions.

>From Richard Boyt:

Greetings from Pottershop Hollow. Thank you for the invitation to join
the stoves forum. This submission is in response to requests for
additional information on the small multi-tin can stove I described
earlier. Since then, the basic stove (without chimney) has evolved from
nine cans to ten, and from an up-down-up draft to a down-up-down-up
(du-du?). In essence, the cans act to capture heat that would otherwise
escape from the outer surfaces of the stove, and return that heat to the
combustion chamber as preheated primary and secondary air. Recently, I have
scaled up the stove from an 85 gram charge to 350 grams, and believe that
it is producing increased
efficiencies.

I am not finding difficulty in getting useful heat from the char burn,
even though I make no draft adjustments after the wood burn flame out.
Note in Figure III that all boiling of water took place during the char
burn. However when I cook food, I usually close off all combustion air
and block the stack after flame out. I find then that I get about an
hour of simmer, ending with hot food and total conversion of wood to
ash. It turns the stove into a kind of combination crock-pot and hay
box sans hay.

Drs. Reed and Larson may be amused by how I stumbled upon top lighting.
It was out of frustration rather than insight. As I proceeded with
designs preheating combustion air, I so isolated the fuel I couldn't
easily set fire to its bottom. In desperation, I dropped lighted wads
of paper down the stack. I was amazed and delighted that the wood
burned downward with no smoke. It was a few weeks later that I read of
the inverted down draft stoves that the good doctors had invented years
earlier. Again, I was delighted to learn that I had accidentally gotten
something right.

I am uncomfortably aware that the multi-can stove has many shortcomings.
In its present form, it does not fit into traditional
patterns of cooking. Too many cans and the design is limited by the
shapes and sizes of discarded containers. I get strange looks as I fish
though the neighborhood dumpsters. The Q can is very difficult to find,
and the H can is made by cutting down the diameter of a large
institutional food can.
I am also aware that if the concept is to prove useful, it must undergo
much refinement.

However, spring farm work begins next week with the arrival of the first
1,000 yearling black walnut trees (Juglans nigra), which means that my
stove work is temporarily on the "back burner". Would it be appropriate
to send off a basic can stove(s) for your examination? I have a spare
ready to go.

Hoping that my work may prove of some value, I remain

Respectfully

Richard Boyt
20479 Panda Rd.
Neosho, MO 64850
(417) 451-1728
dboyt@clandjop.com

More from Ron Larson

1. I gather that Richard got into this stove development business several
years ago because of a past in ceramics (teaching at Crowder College -
located in Southwestern Missouri, now retired) as well as living in a
location blessed with lots of wood. His family uses wood for all heating
and cooking. His motivation is "to pay back" - no financial interests in
any of his present stoves development work. As an aside, Crowder College
is famous in solar car racing circles (coming to Australia twice) - and one
of his sons has been the faculty adviser for that activity.

2. Richard reported that he recently has also been successfully saving the
charcoal sometimes (sprinkling water on it). I think an interesting
question is the relative efficiencies of using the charcoal in situ, as
opposed to saving it for a different stove designed for charcoal
consumption.

3. In Figure III for Test # 3, there is a note "flame out" (which was at
the end of charcoal production). Richard - How much noxious smoking did you
observe at that time? How rapidly did it disappear? Was there any control
of primary air control during this test?

4. Richard - you indicated in your first message that about 2 ounces of
water was lost when you boiled 1 quart of water. In your most recent
figure, you show an aluminum foil cap. Was that on or not when you made
the 2 ounce loss measurement? Another efficiency figure of merit that we
have talked about is in trying to get more water evaporated than the weight
of the wood (if equal, this would be FOM=1), while also generating on the
order of 25% charcoal by weight.
I think your system might be more efficient than most - and more
exact measurements of efficiency will therefore be most interesting.
Another accepted method is to exchange cans of water after each has reached
the boiling point - and try to maximize the number of such exchanges for a
given wood load - both with and without attempts to co-produce charcoal.

5. One interesting part of your design was the "du-du" air flow. However,
this was only over the lower part of the stove already at a fairly low
temperature. If you could do more of this outside the upper combustion
area and the "flue", the extra cans might further allow an efficiency
improvement. Is that possible in your design?

6. I did not understand the part of the diagram labeled L, M, N, O and P -
and hope you could expand on that (as well as anything else you might wish
to add to your description - for others). In total, I thought the diagram
was excellent and thank you for forwarding it.

I greatly enjoyed our phone conversation and look forward to seeing
the stove itself. You have made many clever advances. What questions do
you have for the "stoves" list?

Regards Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Tue Feb 17 15:49:12 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Forwarded:Judkovich on Russian charcoaling
Message-ID: <v01540b01b10f6c9b9707@[204.133.251.42]>

Stovers: About a week ago, I received a brief request for information
about the "stoves" list from Dr. Judkovich (where he said: " My interest is
about wood coal and active wood carbon. This problem is my profession.")
I signed Dr. Jury up, told him a bit more about our list, and
asked a few questions about his work. The following answers have prompted
a few more questions from me below also. I am particularly interested
because he is flaring the waste pyrolysis gases. Ron

(from Dr. Judkovich):
Dear Dr. Larson!
The information, which you have informed is interesting to me. I want to
keep our contact. A thank for the answer and inclusion in a network.
Our work is directed on reception wood coal in small installations (up to
500 t charcoal/year). We have developed and successfully have checked up in
such scale installation, which in from anyone wood waste the coal turns out
only. Pyrolysis gases and pair of liquid products does not leave from
installation, and are burnt inside. It ecologically pure(clean) decision
and thus is not necessary to spend fire wood for heating of installation -
drying up and pyrolysis proceed at the expense of heat exoterm and burning
of gas and pair . We have received the patent for this design. The pride of
the authors forces us to consider this design as most effective. But other
designs are interesting to us. We shall be glad, if you inform us about
them. As inform about designs and technical decisions in the field of
burning and pyrolysis. I can advise the people from the third world, if
them interest questions of manufacture wood coal (charcoal). Give them my
address, if it for whom that is necessary.

(RWL): The address is below (from the first message). Dr.
Judkovich, could you describes omething more about the basic principles in
your patented charcoal making kilns. What is the size (height, diameter,
etc), materials (brick, steel ?), continuous or batch, etc. Has this been
published in English? What is your patent number and what are your
interests in having it commercialized outside Russia? The interests are
possibly as much from developed countries as from developing countries.

(Dr. Judkovich):
I yet have understood all about your network, but I think, that such opened
contact, it is very good.
I think, a bit later I shall understand a Network better.

(RWL): We are delighted to have our first list member from Russia. We hope
that you will encourage other of your colleagues to join us also if they
wish. Undoubtedly we have much to learn from you.
Few of us understands the network very well either (we are now at
125 "stoves" list members, with another five or so only on "stoves-digest"
(a summary every few days).)

(Dr. Judkovich):
I that worked on bricketing sawdust. The swedes make of sawdust a little
brickets (diameter as pencil) and name them "pellet". A principle same.
High temperature and pressure is applied, but is not present binding.
It is a very good material - strong, convenient and well burns. It is
possible to make of it coal, but it very good fuel. Our technology differs
from Swedish, but brickets same slightly.

(RWL):
Thank you for the information on using sawdust. Do you have any
information on the electric power and/or energy requirements for these
extruders for different diameters? What methods have you seen for turning
the pellets into charcoal?

(Dr. Judkovich):
Mine English is bad also to me the electronic interpreter helps which that
makes mistakes. But I think, we shall understand each other.
I can send files x.doc under a Word 97 and below.

(RWL):
We are all delighted we do not have to try to converse in Russian
(even with an electronic interpreter, which probably few of us have access
to).
If you have any diagrams or photos they should not be sent to
everyone (since many do not have full capabilities), but should be sent to:
"*.English" <english@adan.kingston.net>
or
Alex English
RR 2 Odessa Ontario
Canada K0H 2H0
Tel 1-613-386-1927
Fax 1-613-386-1211
Stoves Web Site http://www1.kingston.net/~english/Stoves.html

I am necessary I shall inform about you the colleagues.

Sincerely yours,
02.16.98

>Jury Yudkevitch, Dr., ass. Prof.
>Department of Forest Chemical Technology, St.-Petersburg Forest Technical
>Academy
>My E-mail <woodcoal@mailbox.alkor.ru>

(RWL):
Dr. Jury - Thank you for making contact with the "stoves" list.
Many of us are anxious to hear of your work in charcoal. We also would
like to hear of any work on cook stoves - especially of the smallest
simplest types. Again, I believe the most interest will be in the methods
you are using to produce charcoal cleanly.

Regards Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From p.verhaart at cqu.edu.au Wed Feb 18 02:02:44 1998
From: p.verhaart at cqu.edu.au (P.Verhaart)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Sawdust briquettes
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980218170655.006c29f8@janus.cqu.edu.au>

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From larcon at sni.net Thu Feb 19 00:09:49 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Forwarded:Judkovich on Russian charcoaling
Message-ID: <v01540b00b1111f4f70a7@[204.133.251.9]>

Stovers: The following came in from Dr. Judkovich on my questions about
his flared charcoal-making capability. I again add a few clarifying
questions.

(Dr. Judkovich):
Dear Dr. Larson!
Our design is the brick furnace.
Into this furnace insert cylinders from a
metal pipe. The top of the cylinder is closed.

(RWL): Perhaps this is not dependent on scale, but perhaps you
could tell us the smallest and largest scales you have so far implemented.
(meters of height, length, width, etc. of both the furnace and the metal
cylinders. Are these cylinders oriented vertically)

(Dr. Judkovich):
The bottom is a lattice
(grid-iron). The grid-iron can be removed if to turn on 45 degrees. At
first step the cylinder overturn, remove a grid-iron and fill wood (fire
wood or small-sized pieces of a tree another chips). A grid-iron put on a
place and the cylinder overturn by a hole downwards. In the upper cover of
the furnace there are holes. In them put cylinders. Holes a little and the
cylinders put in a miscellany time.
When in one cylinder the fuel dries, in the friend the gas is already
selected(allocated). The gas burns and gives warmly. If the initial
humidity of wood is less than 50 %, the fuel is not necessary. The good
coal (87 % of nonvolatile carbon) is received. Such coal burns without a
smoke in any opened furnace. I have named this installation "Polykor". In
this name the names of my favourite teachers are saved which already have
died many years ago. It is the professor Pomerancev, professor Liverovsky,
professor Korotov. They have learned me to everything, that I know in the
field of wood coal and there were good people. I and my comrades have
received the message, that to us the patent to this design is produced. But
patent has not come yet. We have interest to commercial use of this
process. In Russia there is a corporation, which financed activity and
prototype installation. We would like to receive a contact to such
corporation not in Russia. We now have economic difficulties and the
activity goes slowly, and the life is short. But I am off-the shelf without
payment to help the one who is poorer than us. But I may to give only
advice. There is no money to go anywhere. For our furnace are not necessary
neither electricity, nor vapours, water. Is necessary only the lift, but
also it can be manual.
Yours faithfully
!
Our design is the brick furnace. Into this furnace insert cylinders from a
metal pipe. The top of the cylinder is closed. The bottom is a lattice
(grid-iron). The grid-iron can be removed if to turn on 45 degrees. The
cylinder overturn, remove a grid-iron and fill wood (fire wood or ð‰-¡). A
grid-iron put on a place and the cylinder overturn by a hole downwards. In
the upper cover of the furnace there are holes. In them put cylinders.
Holes a little and the cylinders put in a miscellany time.
When in one cylinder the fuel dries, in the friend the gas is already
selected(allocated). The gas burns and gives warmly. If the initial
humidity of wood is less than 50 %, the fuel is not necessary. The good
coal (87 % of nonvolatile carbon) is received. Such coal burns without a
smoke in any opened furnace. I have named this installation "Polykor". In
this name the names of my favourite teachers are saved which already have
died. It is the professor •¦Õ‰"¡‘ˆ‰×, professor ϊ׉"¦×"ÀŠ , professor
Φ"¦'¦×. They have learned me to everything, that I know in the field of
wood '«Ã- and there were good people. I and my comrades have received the
message, that to us the patent to this design is produced. But patent has
not come yet. We have interest to commercial use of this process. In Russia
there is a corporation, which financed activity and prototype installation.
We would like to receive a contact to such corporation not in Russia. We
now have economic difficulties and the activity goes slowly, and the life
is short. But I am off-the shelf without payment to help the one who is
poorer than us. But only to give advice. There is no money to go where
‘Š¬'Ÿÿ. For our furnace are not necessary neither electricity, nor
pairs(vapours,couples), water. Is necessary only '‰Ãÿ‰", but also it(he)
can be manual.
Yours faithfully J.Judkevitch

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Mon Feb 23 18:17:06 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Sawdust briquettes
Message-ID: <199802231822_MC2-3471-171B@compuserve.com>

Dear Piet:

I very much enjoyed your description of making sawdust pellets. The recipe
is very much like that of John Tatom for making "fireball" charcoal
pellets. And like my recipe for making LUMPY bread. I'll certainly try
making some sawdust pellets. We have sun here in Colorado too.

Wood is 2/3 air, 1/3 solid matter (of density 1.5 g/cm3). Conventional
densification uses ~ 10,000 psi and 50 hp-hr/ton to make pellets or logs
with a density of 0.9-1.2 g/cm3.

What pressure did you apply? What density did you achieve?

Just wondering, TOM REED

(Ron):
Stovers - the following came in from Piet Verhaart on briquetting. I hope
someone can jump in on the details of the rotating drum method and perhaps
especially how briquettes of sawdust might stand up in later conversion to
charcoal. I have seen briquettes of charcoal made in this way (in Sudan)
and was told that they were preferred over natural charcoal (diameter about
3-4 cm).

(Piet):
About extruding sawdust briquettes. Way back in the late seventies
there
was a project in Bandung, Indonesia, where I saw an extruder in action.
Solid chunks were produced from rice husks. A kind of sausage emerged from
the machine, crackling and smoking. The cohesion is caused by high pressure
and high temperature, all resulting from a high mechanical power input.

The answer to your question whether this could be done manually is No, not
even after ingesting several cans of spinach.

Has anybody ever tried making sawdust briquettes with some cheap starch as
binder? I seem to remember reading or hearing of spontaneous formation of
spherical conglomerates in a rotating drum, the size being dependent on the
plasticity of the mix.

I would expect sawdust briquettes of between 15 - 30 mm diameter to perform
excellently in my downdraft barbecue.

So much for now, breakfast is beckoning.

Ever onward.

Piet

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Mon Feb 23 18:18:47 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Forwarded: Boyt on 10-can stove
Message-ID: <199802231821_MC2-3471-1714@compuserve.com>

Richard Boyt, Ron et al:

I was delighted by your description of your discovering the "inverted
downdraft" (upside downdraft, top burning, charcoal making etc.) stove.

My discovery of inverted downdraft in 1985 came from eating elephant meat
in South Africa; lying awake at 2 AM; thinking about the required
properties of a 2 kW cook stove for the SA natives; realizing that it would
be < 1 inch in diameter; wondering why; realizing that forced downdraft is
in opposition to natural convection; and turning the flow upside down so
that natural convection can then substitute for unnatural downdraft when
you don't have an engine to suck it through.

I have also seen the charcoal continue to burn (updraft) after the flaming
pyrolysis reaches the bottom, but much less intensely - as you suggest,
maybe enough for simmering.

However, be careful about the charcoal combustion - it could give out lots
of CO if it smoulders. As long as the wood smoulders, the smoke warns you
about the CO, but when there is only charcoal there, CO could be generated
in significant quantitiies. During WWII most CO deaths were caused by
people driving their gasifier cars into their garages and not denying air
perfectly to the charcoal.

Ron and I have never quite agreed on the desirability of making charcoal.
His experience is Africa - mine is wanting my lunch and not needing any
charcoal. I suspect not all developing nation cooks want to go in the
charcoal business.

Therefore, I am considering adding additional small air holes down the side
of the can so that air can enter and burn the charcoal after the flaming
pyrolysis zone passes by. In this way you might get a more intense flame
for cooking and not risk CO inhalation (and not produce charcoal - sorry
Ron).

Glad to have you and your experiments on board,

Keep cookin' TOM REED

~~~~

Stovers:
This is to forward more on the 10-can stove that Alex announced
today was on his web site. I also have had a nice telephone conversation
with the developer, Richard Boyt. Since his contact with this list is
through his son, Dave, and Richard probably doesn't want to blow his own
horn, I follow his remarks with some of my (highly favorable) thoughts on
his efforts as well as a few more questions.

>From Richard Boyt:

Greetings from Pottershop Hollow. Thank you for the invitation to join
the stoves forum. This submission is in response to requests for
additional information on the small multi-tin can stove I described
earlier. Since then, the basic stove (without chimney) has evolved from
nine cans to ten, and from an up-down-up draft to a down-up-down-up
(du-du?). In essence, the cans act to capture heat that would otherwise
escape from the outer surfaces of the stove, and return that heat to the
combustion chamber as preheated primary and secondary air. Recently, I have
scaled up the stove from an 85 gram charge to 350 grams, and believe that
it is producing increased
efficiencies.

I am not finding difficulty in getting useful heat from the char burn,
even though I make no draft adjustments after the wood burn flame out.
Note in Figure III that all boiling of water took place during the char
burn. However when I cook food, I usually close off all combustion air
and block the stack after flame out. I find then that I get about an
hour of simmer, ending with hot food and total conversion of wood to
ash. It turns the stove into a kind of combination crock-pot and hay
box sans hay.

Drs. Reed and Larson may be amused by how I stumbled upon top lighting.
It was out of frustration rather than insight. As I proceeded with
designs preheating combustion air, I so isolated the fuel I couldn't
easily set fire to its bottom. In desperation, I dropped lighted wads
of paper down the stack. I was amazed and delighted that the wood
burned downward with no smoke. It was a few weeks later that I read of
the inverted down draft stoves that the good doctors had invented years
earlier. Again, I was delighted to learn that I had accidentally gotten
something right.

I am uncomfortably aware that the multi-can stove has many shortcomings.
In its present form, it does not fit into traditional
patterns of cooking. Too many cans and the design is limited by the
shapes and sizes of discarded containers. I get strange looks as I fish
though the neighborhood dumpsters. The Q can is very difficult to find,
and the H can is made by cutting down the diameter of a large
institutional food can.
I am also aware that if the concept is to prove useful, it must undergo
much refinement.

However, spring farm work begins next week with the arrival of the first
1,000 yearling black walnut trees (Juglans nigra), which means that my
stove work is temporarily on the "back burner". Would it be appropriate
to send off a basic can stove(s) for your examination? I have a spare
ready to go.

Hoping that my work may prove of some value, I remain

Respectfully

Richard Boyt
20479 Panda Rd.
Neosho, MO 64850
(417) 451-1728
dboyt@clandjop.com

More from Ron Larson

1. I gather that Richard got into this stove development business several
years ago because of a past in ceramics (teaching at Crowder College -
located in Southwestern Missouri, now retired) as well as living in a
location blessed with lots of wood. His family uses wood for all heating
and cooking. His motivation is "to pay back" - no financial interests in
any of his present stoves development work. As an aside, Crowder College
is famous in solar car racing circles (coming to Australia twice) - and one
of his sons has been the faculty adviser for that activity.

2. Richard reported that he recently has also been successfully saving the
charcoal sometimes (sprinkling water on it). I think an interesting
question is the relative efficiencies of using the charcoal in situ, as
opposed to saving it for a different stove designed for charcoal
consumption.

3. In Figure III for Test # 3, there is a note "flame out" (which was at
the end of charcoal production). Richard - How much noxious smoking did you
observe at that time? How rapidly did it disappear? Was there any control
of primary air control during this test?

4. Richard - you indicated in your first message that about 2 ounces of
water was lost when you boiled 1 quart of water. In your most recent
figure, you show an aluminum foil cap. Was that on or not when you made
the 2 ounce loss measurement? Another efficiency figure of merit that we
have talked about is in trying to get more water evaporated than the weight
of the wood (if equal, this would be FOM=1), while also generating on the
order of 25% charcoal by weight.
I think your system might be more efficient than most - and more
exact measurements of efficiency will therefore be most interesting.
Another accepted method is to exchange cans of water after each has reached
the boiling point - and try to maximize the number of such exchanges for a
given wood load - both with and without attempts to co-produce charcoal.

5. One interesting part of your design was the "du-du" air flow. However,
this was only over the lower part of the stove already at a fairly low
temperature. If you could do more of this outside the upper combustion
area and the "flue", the extra cans might further allow an efficiency
improvement. Is that possible in your design?

6. I did not understand the part of the diagram labeled L, M, N, O and P -
and hope you could expand on that (as well as anything else you might wish
to add to your description - for others). In total, I thought the diagram
was excellent and thank you for forwarding it.

I greatly enjoyed our phone conversation and look forward to seeing
the stove itself. You have made many clever advances. What questions do
you have for the "stoves" list?

Regards Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

 

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Tue Feb 24 08:01:16 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: THE END OF CHEAP OIL
Message-ID: <199802240806_MC2-3479-5179@compuserve.com>

Dear Jay et al:

Last night about 2 AM I finished reading the latest (March) Scientific
American, pp 78- 95.

Message 1: Global production of conventional oil will begin to decline
sooner than most people think, probably within 10 years

Message 2: There are other fossil alternatives, but they will be more
expensive and less convenient.

Most of us will consider this as good news, since we at CREST are working
on the alternatives that cheap oil makes "uneconomical" today. I'm
preparing.

I recommend that you all read this analysis (and maybe stockpile cheap oil
:-) )

Then I got the following message today: Thanks, Jay.

Enjoy TOM REED

Message text written by "Jay Hanson"
>PREVENTING THE NEXT OIL CRUNCH
Global production of oil from conventional sources is likely to
peak and decline permanently during the next decade, according to
the most thoughtful analyses. In these articles, industry experts
explain why and describe technologies that could cushion against
the shock of a new energy crisis.

THE END OF CHEAP OIL
Colin J. Campbell and Jean H. Laherrère Forecasts about the
abundance of oil are usually warped by inconsistent definitions
of "reserves." In truth, every year for the past two decades the
industry has pumped more oil than it has discovered, and
production will soon be unable to keep up with rising demand.

[ also see three more articles on energy in this issue
http://www.sciam.com/1998/0398issue/0398quicksummary.html ]

Jay -- www.dieoff.org

<

 

 

From english at adan.kingston.net Thu Feb 26 22:00:14 1998
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Ten Can Stove
Message-ID: <199802270306.WAA25247@adan.kingston.net>

Dear Dick and Stovers,
One of the details of this stove that is not clear from the drawings
is how the primary and secondary air are proportioned. Is the flow
inhibited for either by carefully sized holes? Or is there a fairly
open grate? Have you played with this variable?

 

Alex

______________
Alex English
RR 2 Odessa Ontario
Canada K0H 2H0
Tel 1-613-386-1927
Fax 1-613-386-1211
Stoves Web Site http://www1.kingston.net/~english/Stoves.html

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Fri Feb 27 16:43:24 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Sawdust briquettes
Message-ID: <199802271648_MC2-34EF-F7E3@compuserve.com>

Piet:

Not surprising the balls were light, considering they are sawdust stuck
together at the edges with starch. Did they have any strength?

Wood is incredibly strong and your hydraulic jack may not do much. It
requires about 100 atmospheres to begin to crush the corners and edges and
1000 atm to completely crush the pore structure. In 1978 I had hopes that
by heating to 250C these pressures could be greatly reducedand we could
extrude wood like pasta; they weren't. This is a little surprising,
considering that the lignin in wood becomes sufficiently plastic for
bending at 100C.

Don't waste too much time re-inventing the wheel. Pyrolyse first, then
crush.

TOM

 

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Fri Feb 27 16:43:53 1998
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Biomass Approximations ... and TAR
Message-ID: <199802271649_MC2-34EF-F7F2@compuserve.com>

Dear NET:

Sometimes it is necessary to have exact values to calculate quantitatively.
However, before being exact, (and in checking exact results) it is
important to have approximations. Maybe this is why many people don't
think creatively about biomass conversion. I sometimes wake at night and
do a lot of useful approximate thinking about biomass (rather than worrying
about when we'll run out of oil etc.) I have found the following
approximations to be very useful.

BIOMASS APPROXIMATIONS
BIOMASS COMPOSITION
On a bone dry, ash free basis, (DAF) the composition of MOST biomass
approximates

C H(1.4) O (0.6)

This formula ratios the hydrogen and oxygen to the carbon. It has
(fortuitously) 3 moles and a molecular weight of 23.
If you prefer mole %
C= (1/3) = .33%; H = 1.4/3 = 47%; O = .6/3 = 20%
If you prefer Wt %,
C = (12/23) = 52%; H = (1.4/23) = 6% ; O = 9.6/23 = 42%
This formula permits writing equations for combustion, gasification and
pyrolysis such as

BIOMASS OXYGEN COMBUSTION: CH1.4O.6 + 1.05 O2 ==> CO2 + .7 H2O
and making mass calculations such as:
23 kg Biomass + (1.05 X 32) 33.6 kg oxygen ==> (44 + .7X18) 56.6 kg gas
or volumes such as:
1.05 volumes oxygen yields 1.7 volumes combustion gas
AIR
I know perfectly well that air contains 79% N2 and 21% O2, but in the world
of my mind it is 1/5O2, 4/5N2. If you want to make calculations for air
combustion or gasification you must add 4 N2 for each O2 (or (79/21) 3.76
if you wish to be more exact. [I learned my tables of 4 when I was 8. I'm
still a little shaky on my 3.76 tables.]

ENERGY
Bone dry ash free biomass has an energy content of 20 kJ/g (20 MJ/kg, 20
GJ/ton)
If you know water and ash content, you can calculate real world biomass
from this. Or better yet, have your biomass analysed for $200 and get
proximate, ultimate and energy content on your Xhulls Ybark or Zstraw.
Then hope it isn't different next year.

Producer gas has an energy content of 5-6 MJ/m3

POWER
1 kg/hr biomass generates (20,000J/3600sec) 5.6 kWthermal or 1 kWelectric
(at 18% overall efficiency)

GAS
1 m3 producer gas = 1 kg, so 1 ppm = 1 mg.

TAR
(Our faithful Doug Williams asked: "You mention 8% tar which sounds
substantial. Can you transcribe that into mg/m3?")

So, 8% tar = 80,000 ppm
(It is necessary to reduce tar below 50 ppm to run IC engines)
~~~~
Enough for now. If others will give a critique of these approximations or
send in their own favorites, I will add some more.

Yours truly, TOM REED

 

<

 

 

From larcon at sni.net Fri Feb 27 23:36:15 1998
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:49 2004
Subject: Forwarded: Chai on Charcoal making in Malaysia
Message-ID: <v01540b02b11cff3db71d@[204.133.251.7]>

Stovers: The following was received a few days ago from Dr. Chai in
response to some of my questions on his sawdust to charcoal briquetting
processes. I have corrected a few typos, hopefully correctly. At the end,
I add a few notes. Ron

>From Dr. Chai:
Dear Dr.Ronal,
First of all I must inform you that I am no authority in this briquette
field, however , I shall try to share whatever I have learned in the
four years working as the managing director of this factory.

As I have mentioned before, ours is sawdust briquette charcoal. There
are basically 3 types of briquette charcoal.
1. charcoal dust bind together as briquette, using binding agent.
2. sawdust added with binding agent to form briquette and then carbonise
in kiln.
3. Sawdust press through heated die by screw extruder.

Ours belongs to the 3rd type. Our extruders tend to wear off quite fast
and we need to coat the tip with tungsten carbide (ultimium N 112 ). In
my experience, the moiture contents of the heated saw dust should be
about 5% . The optimum temperature for briquetting is around 300oC.

Elsen Kastad 's question of manually producing briquette is possible if
he is using binding agent as lower temperature shall be sufficient. In
my case at 300 degrees C. it is impossible to handle. According to some
reports the high temperature and the high pressure is suppose to soften
the lignin in the wood cellulose and it will act as a natural binding
agent We use a flash dryer to dry up our sawdust and part of the dried
sawdust itself is used as continuous fuel for the flash drier..

For all the details and to get the right experts to help you and your
list of people , perhaps you can get in touch with:- DR.W.HULSCHER
FAO REGIONAL OFFICE FOR ASIA AND THE PACIFIC,
MALIWAN MANSION,
PHRA ATIT ROAD,
BANGKOK 10200
THAILAND e-mail : rwedp@ksc.net.th Tel./fax 66-2 280 0760

He is in charge of the regional wood energy develpment programme in
Asia. There was a Biomass Briquetting Technology and Practice seminar held in
India 1995 and several papers were published for that purpose.

May be you already know him earlier.

Our final product is about 50mm in diameter. The briquettes are arranged
in rail "trucks" which acts as part of the kiln, where both ends of the open
truck are made of steel walls lined with refractory cement of about
120mm thick.
The kilns are built in rows with fire bricks wall and a chimney hole at
the base. Each measure about 2000 x 2000 x 4000mm ( W x H x L).We set
fire internally and gaps between the rail truck and the kiln are sealed
with mud .It is rather difficult for me to give you all the details
without drawing and plans.

We do use second burner or flare method to burn off the pyrolysis gases
but it.is not very satisfactory.

Please be free to ask more and I shall try my best to help you.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,

Dr.Chai..

>From (RWL):

Dr. Chai - thank you for your additional information. I have these
additional comments and questions:

1. Thank you for this helpful additional information.

2. I have sent an e-mail invitation to join "stoves" to FAO's Dr.
Hulscher. Perhaps we shall hear more from him. Thank you for that
reference.

3. I like the idea of loading the sawdust extrusions into rail cars and
then rolling these into fixed kilns in which the cars become part of the
kiln. This sounds very cost effective. It seems to me that the

4. I am a bit surprised (and delighted) that the extrusions have strength
after pyrolysis. Can you describe this strength and transportability in
some way? What diameter change is there during pyrolysis?

5. I would hope that it would be possible to both flare the gases and use
the "waste" heat in someway - rather than combusting sawdust for instance
to do the drying. I shall raise these issues with Dr.Hulscher.

6. In what ways might our group be of assistance in your operation?

7. Other stovers: any other questions for Dr. Chai?

Again. Thank you. Regards Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net