December 2000 Gasification Archive

For more information to help people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions, please see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 2 08:33:21 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: HOLISTIC STOVE DESIGN
Message-ID: <d3.d4e3d7f.275a5261@cs.com>

Dear Stove Improvers:

I have just returned from the ARTI/BFCS-2000 stove conference with lots of
new data dn a few insights.

In particular, we can't stress too much that we need a holistic approach to
stove design. In the 1980s the designers focussed almost exclusively on the
efficiency of the stove. They ignored whether the pot turned black, whether
it took 5 or 20 minutes to bring water to the boil, whether the stove could
cook unattended,

whether the stove burned easily available fuels, whether the housewife liked
it because it looked "modern" or rejected it because it wasn't what mom used,
....

whether the local polictical situation would support introduction of new
stoves, whether local businessmen could set up profitable businesses....

SO, I hope that our new threst in stoves will be "HOLISTIC STOVE DESIGN".

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF/CPC
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 2 08:37:27 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Johnny Appleseed of Biomass Energy
Message-ID: <71.8c83c54.275a5359@cs.com>

Dear all:

Nice web site with convincing arguments for "integrated orchard agriculture".

Sounds like we have a new "Johnny Appleseed" here.

Tom Reed BEF/CPC

Kermit Schlansker wrote:

> Do you think that fruit trees could be an efficient basis for biomass
> growth? They have the advantages of producing fruit and topsoil while
> growing energy. It should be possible to make ethanol from apples if you
> have too many apples. They also provide food for animals and support
> wildlife. I suppose the catch would be that they grow too slowly.

Phil Rutter in southern Minnesota has done quite a lot of research and
thinking
about "woody agriculture." See
http://www.badgersett.com/Intro%20to%20woody%20Ag.html for more info.
>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
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From larcon at sni.net Sun Dec 3 03:55:28 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Report on Pune conference (part A - process)
Message-ID: <v01540b00b64fadc92711@[204.131.233.6]>

Stovers -

A little later than I hoped and following up on Tom Reed's message
of a few days ago, here are some first non-technical notes on the stoves
conference - held in Pune (India) from November 20-24, 2000. The
conference was officially the International Conference on Bio-Mass Based
Fuels & Cooking Systems (BFCS-2000). Most participants arrived the day
before -on Sunday morning, Nov. 19. After resting, most of us then
registered late in the afternoon at the conference center site on the west
side of Pune.

We found Pune (pronounced "Poon-ay") to be a large (2 million?)
prosperous industrial city about 4 hours east of Mumbai (formerly called
Bombay - a huge and much more expensive city). It took a few of us about
15 minutes to move about 9 kilometers from our hotel (the President) to the
conference center - cost by three wheel taxi (rickshaw type) about 40
rupees (80 cents). Our hotel was on the Pune outskirts also, so you can
see Pune is a big city itself. Much of our taxi trip was along Karve
avenue - named after Dr. Priya's great grandfather - the founder of a
famous local University for women. (Karve is pronounced like Pune -
Karv-ay).

Most attendees stayed at a guesthouse which is part of a "BAIF"
Conference Center. It regularly handles many dozens of attendees, with
many classrooms, lovely courtyards, etc. On Sunday afternoon, we saw Tom
Reed and Alex English immediately, and then after a while also met Priya
Karve (and later her mother and father), and other stoves list members Mark
Bryden, Liz Bates, and John Rouse for the first times. On this Sunday
afternoon/evening, registration took place in Priya's room, with assistance
from her parents and several other ARTI staff members.

By this time, my wife and I had already met list member Paul Hait
(Pyromid); we then later met Bengt Ebbesen (Electrolux) and Harry Stokes
for dinner. On Monday, Dr. Yuri and an associate came in from St.
Petersburg, Russia - making their first day even tougher. Almost all of
we foreigners (I think all were stoves list members) arrived in Mumbai at a
very early hour - and we all took the same scary van ride to Pune. (We
usually started in the dark, traveling on the left side of narrow winding
mountain roads that were loaded with slower moving trucks.)

At the conference end, we all received a list of attendees. I
found some who were stoves list members but had not been vocal. Now I
think they will be. We also should soon have several dozen more new
members. I am for instance thinking of about a dozen from Nepal,
Indonesia, and Sri Lanka who have been listening in but have expressed an
intent to be more vocal and/or to become registered stoves list members.
There were many more from India in these categories. In sum, there was a
lot of talent and experience at this meeting that should soon be more
evident in our list discussions. India and this part of the world have
been doing a lot of good work. This personal contact was the best part of
the trip for me.

In this first report, I won't recap any of the papers (being given
by about half the attendees). There was much to be learned from each and
mostly there were good questions after each. The time allotted for each
was generally 15 minutes plus five minutes for questions - too short a
time, but we did have the benefit of more views that way. With a break
every 4 or 5 papers, there was time to talk to each presenter during breaks
(and later during the two field trips).

There were official openings for a set of seven poster papers -
participants who added to their regular talk with extra diagrams, etc.
(more of us should have done this). There was also a separate special
opening of a small building with many demonstrations - mostly of the chulha
stove being most often installed by ARTI-trained potters. (The chulhas
here are mostly un-fired clay - built with a standard mandrel form.) This
building was open a lot and had tours by some student groups. A large
gasifier built in India was operating on Monday.

Some of us were also asked to chair sessions. In mine there were
two papers on computational fluid dynamics (CFD) analysis of stoves. The
first was by Professor M.R. Ravi from the Department of Mechanical
Engineering, Indian Institute of Technology, New Delhi - analyzing a
sawdust stove. His results show that many stove design principles are
basically wrong in two fundamental ways - more on that later. I also
learned that Professor Ravi was working on this in part because Dr. Priya
had written her Master's thesis on this stove (learning for instance that
the optimum height to diameter ratio for the central air flow is six).
Professor Mark Bryden, also gave a CFD talk on his modeling of the plancha
stove being developed by Rogerio Miranda and Dean Still - stoves list
members who could not be in Pune. I mention this modeling topic
especially, since I believe it to be a new feature for any stoves
conference and for the stoves list.

Every day, we had available a typical local vegetarian breakfast
and lunch prepared by BAIF staff. Those staying at the guest house also had
a local-fare dinner, but those of us at the hotel couldn't wait for the
8:30 PM serving time. All conference participants had tea twice a day as
well. The costs of attending were remarkably low - as in much of India.

On Thursday there was a fun bus trip to the ARTI research farm -
about 3 hours from Pune - near a smaller city called Phalton. At the
farm we saw many projects - bamboo especially - chairs, trailers, water
containers, etc. We also saw a charcoal-making kiln in operation with 7
(almost-closed) cans being heated with sugar cane leaves (both in and out
of the seven cans) and their evolved pyrolysis gas. The waste heat was not
being utilized, but the gases were being flared. This design initiated
with a suggestion from Dr. Yuri. (The next week, Alex went back for
several days to see if he could simplify (no cans) with a top down burn
similar to one he has been using in Canada).

A great banquet lunch this day in Phalton was provided courtesy of
an architect friend of the Karves. Then a rest break and eventually tea
and back to Pune by 7:00. At the suggestion of Tom Reed, the five
Americans and one Swede treated the 3 Karves and Canadian Alex to a
Thanksgiving dinner at the hotel (Tandoori chicken, no turkey available).

On Friday we had a similar early start and went to a children's
"solar world", developed as an ecological training center by a retired
electrical engineer - taking a boat part way across a newly created
reservoir. Much of the planting and design had been with the help of ARTI
staff - and it was fun to see a first class ecological training effort in
process (for the last 2 or 3 years). Much use of recycled materials.

I met with the Karves and a few others on Saturday to finalize plans
for the conference proceedings (I'll let the Karves report on that) and
possible follow-up activities. The next Monday (after Sunday being
tourists) we again showed up at Phalton for a few more hours of discussion
with Dr. Karve (senior) and Alex English. On Tuesday, we also talked with
Dr. Karve senior on the way back to Pune from Phalton - mostly about
various botany (Karve's main field) topics where he has been a real
pioneer, with many world-first accomplishments. It became obvious to us
how Dr. Priya became so talented.

Gretchen and I were tourists for the rest of our stay (through
Wednesday evening) - except for a short stint trying to learn more about a
floating (insulating) brick - they really exist in Pune - the subject of a
later e-mail. In total, we had a great time and I'm pretty sure most
attendees would say the same and were glad they came.

Some big conclusions I came away with? There are more problems
with chimneys than I had realized and there was considerable private
discussion of replacing chimneys with lightweight hoods. There was
considerable discussion of pyrolysis stoves and charcoal making - also
unlike previous stoves conference proceedings. This conference also had a
lot of emphasis on Indoor Air Quality and global climate change. I heard a
need to find a chulha material better than unfired mud (the reason for
looking into a floating brick). Also it must have been a first to have
three commercial American/European companies present with an intent to
compete in the developing country stove market. And the Indian
entrepreneurs were impressive as well, albeit with fewer resources.

Lastly, I think I can speak for all participants in thanking the
Karves and others at ARTI - who did a marvelous job in carrying out the
logistics of this conference. We in the stoves list made a good choice in
accepting the ARTI offer two years ago. Fortunately, the strong attendance
from other nearby Asian countries makes me sure that the world of stoves
will benefit from another conference in a few years. I hope other stove
organizations will start thinking about the opportunities that will come
with being a conference organizer for a conference in about 2002. I
personally feel invigorated and am greatly pleased to have finally met so
many people who have contributed to the stoves list for so long - and to
have met so many new people in the field as well.

ARTI came out of this almost financially sound and would have shown
a small profit if a major sponsor had not been forced to pull out (for
their own financial reasons). The proceedings will still come out in
timely fashion, but it would be great if some sponsors would come forward
to assist in that process - especially so that hard copies can be placed in
some libraries. The advertising value would be great for sponsors and the
cost will not be much (the Karves will supply details at a later date). We
who were authors must get our revised papers in over the next two months.

In a following e-mail, I'll try to get at other technology-oriented
conclusions that I came away with as well as some design "dilemmas" that I
tried to organize on the trip back (through 12.5 time zones)..

Any questions on the conference process (which is all I wanted to
get across this time)?

Any different impressions from other attendees?

Any other new stoves ideas or commitments?

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From tmiles at teleport.com Sun Dec 3 17:04:14 2000
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Report on Pune conference (part A - process)
In-Reply-To: <v01540b00b64fadc92711@[204.131.233.6]>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001203134053.00e0c410@mail.teleport.com>

Ron Larson and Tom Reed,

Thank you for the reports on the Pune conference. This Stoves list has
accomplished a great deal in it's short life thanks to you both, to Alex,
Elk and others who help keep the ball rolling. And thanks, of course, to
our 1999-2000 list sponsors: CREST, Pyromid and Biomass Energy Foundation.

I hope that we will be able to order the Proceedings via the internet. At
the very least it would be useful to access conference abstracts via the
internet. These could be posted on CREST or the Stoves site at
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html (with pictures from
Pune?) I'm sure that Mark can provide a streaming video of his CFD model. :-)

A post regarding sponsorship of the proceedings would be welcome.

We also need to sponsor the Stoves list for another year. We're looking for
sponsors willing to contribute a minimum of $100/4 months, preferably
$300/year. Sign up to sponsor the stoves list at:
http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml

Regards,

Tom Miles
Bioenergy List Administrator

At 02:06 AM 12/3/2000 -0600, Ronal W. Larson wrote:
>Stovers -
[snip]

> ARTI came out of this almost financially sound and would have shown
>a small profit if a major sponsor had not been forced to pull out (for
>their own financial reasons). The proceedings will still come out in
>timely fashion, but it would be great if some sponsors would come forward
>to assist in that process - especially so that hard copies can be placed in
>some libraries. The advertising value would be great for sponsors and the
>cost will not be much (the Karves will supply details at a later date). We
>who were authors must get our revised papers in over the next two months.
>

[snip]

>Ron
>
>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>larcon@sni.net

Thomas R Miles tmiles@trmiles.com
Technical Consultants, Inc. 503-292-0107
1470 SW Woodward Way 503-292-2919(fax)
Portland, OR 97225 USA www.teleport.com/~tmiles

From geres at free.fr Mon Dec 4 03:29:48 2000
From: geres at free.fr (Groupe Energies Renouvelables et Environnement)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: stove for high altitude in Himalaya range
Message-ID: <007101c05dcb$45c8b6a0$7a7afac1@dellt450>

Dear Stovers,

We are new on the mailing list.

GERES is a French NGO supporting program in the energy field in
West Africa, Maghreb and in the Himalayan range.

Our main activities in Himalaya range are in Ladakh (West
India) : passive solar building, passive solar poultry farm, greenhouse, fruit
processing.

In the high altitude plateau (4000m) we start working on
improved stove ("chulah" or "thap") which are use for cooking and heating. The
structure of the stove is metallic The combustible is dung.

Has someone experiment something on this field ?

Looking forward to hear from you

Vincent Stauffer

<FONT face="MS Sans Serif"
size=2>------------------------------------------------------------------------Consultez
notre site Web Visit our Web site
-----------------------------GERES - Groupe Energies Renouvelables et
Environnement2 cours Maréchal Foch - 13 400 AubagneTel: +33 4 42 18 55
88 Fax: +33 4 42 03 01 56mail: <A
href="mailto:geres@free.fr">geres@free.fr web: <A
href="http://geres.free.fr">http://geres.free.fr------------------------------------------------------------------------

From english at adan.kingston.net Mon Dec 4 06:33:25 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.english)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Conference in Pune
Message-ID: <200012041127.GAA19042@adan.kingston.net>

Dear Stovers,
I would also like to voice my appreciation for the work of the ARTI
conference organizers and the Karve family in particular. You all
deserve a break now that the last of the stragglers have left!

I have posted a few (about 25) images from the conference at
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/BFCS/bfcspics.htm
or check under the NEW section of the stoves web page address below.

There are some obvious omissions. I would be pleased to receive more
pictures from the delegates to add to this page. Send them via email
or regular mail.

Thanks to all the delegates for making this event a memorable one.

Alex

Alex English
RR 2 Odessa, Ontario, Canada
K0H2H0 613-386-1927
Fax 613-386-1211
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From english at adan.kingston.net Mon Dec 4 17:37:44 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: BFCS pictures problems.
Message-ID: <200012042232.RAA08730@adan.kingston.net>

Stovers,
The problems with the conference pictures have been sorted out, I
hope. Try again, If you still have problems they may be the server.
Alex

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Dec 5 07:46:33 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Pune Proceedings
Message-ID: <36.ec63aec.275e3bac@cs.com>

Dear Stovers:

I have offered to publish the Pune Proceedings in Spiral bound format at cost
to the attendees (about $10 plus shipping, typically $8). I would then keep
the book in print in my publication list.

If we had a sponsor I could send the books free to the attendees. Volunteers?

Others (Alex?) have offered to post the proceedings on a website.

So, looks like we'll see them one way or another in the near future.

TOM REED BEF PRESS

In a message dated 12/3/00 2:59:21 PM Mountain Standard Time,
tmiles@teleport.com writes:

<<
Ron Larson and Tom Reed,

Thank you for the reports on the Pune conference. This Stoves list has
accomplished a great deal in it's short life thanks to you both, to Alex,
Elk and others who help keep the ball rolling. And thanks, of course, to
our 1999-2000 list sponsors: CREST, Pyromid and Biomass Energy Foundation.

I hope that we will be able to order the Proceedings via the internet. At
the very least it would be useful to access conference abstracts via the
internet. These could be posted on CREST or the Stoves site at
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html (with pictures from
Pune?) I'm sure that Mark can provide a streaming video of his CFD model.
:-)

A post regarding sponsorship of the proceedings would be welcome.

We also need to sponsor the Stoves list for another year. We're looking for
sponsors willing to contribute a minimum of $100/4 months, preferably
$300/year. Sign up to sponsor the stoves list at:
http://crest.org/services/biolist-spons.shtml

Regards,

Tom Miles
Bioenergy List Administrator

>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From larcon at sni.net Wed Dec 6 06:28:48 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: query on a new cookpot seen in Pune
Message-ID: <v01540b00b653baae14da@[204.131.233.11]>

Pune conference attendees and other stovers:

At the Pune conference, I (same time as Alex English) talked briefly with a
salesman for an interesting new cooking utensil apparently recently
developed and manufactured in Mumbai (Bombay). This consisted of about 6
or 7 separate parts. The bottom "dish" sat on the chulha (or any other
stove) and was tall enough to contain a small amount of water (a
deciliter?). Next one placed on the "dish" 4 or 5 nesting "bowls" (maybe
4-6 cm tall and maybe 20 cm diameter).
Then over this one placed an inverted large "can" or "cookpot" to contain
and condense the steam generated on the "dish". Then the really new part
was another larger inverted "pot" outside of the first inverted pot - to
improve the efficiency by reducing the convective and radiative losses from
the first inverted "pot".

The price was maybe 400 rupees (bad notes on this) which would be
about $9.00 - but maybe was less (Alex?). We both offered to buy one, but
there were none for sale and no advertising brochures. The material was
stainless steel, which is widely available and locally produced in India
and is cheap. One market where I inquired about the price of a different
nice-looking big vessel put it on the shop's scale and gave the price
(after using a calculator) where the key number was 75 rupees per kilogram
of stainless steel (about 75 cents per pound). At this shop, Aluminum pots
(again of any size) would have been 130 rupees per kg. In the US I have
never seen any cooking utensil sold by weight - and I applaud the
simnplicity of this pricing system (and the number "75" changes with the
quality of the stainless - with customers taking magnets with them I was
told).

The inventor/entrepreneur might have been a Mr.G.K. Bhide (my notes
are not clear) and he might have been a retired physicist or engineer. His
address was c/o S.B. Patel, 2 Dahamukar (sp?) Road, Mumbai 400026. (Mumbai
Phone 4462591 - don't have the country or city codes).

My guess is that his approach has a very good dollar payback time
due to greatly reduced energy losses. His technical effort must have been
considerable to get the right sort of "lips" to properly seat or nest the
various components. It appeared that he was just getting started in sales
and had only heard of the stoves conference in the previous few days. A
clever part of his design is the inversion of the two "pot-lids" as their
weight gives some pressure cooker effect with a zero-cost water seal (I
presume). From a stoves standpoint, the clever part is that he is cooking
multiple dishes vertically - and at almost no extra energy cost.

Now to my questions.

1. Has any list member tested this or any similar cooking device?

2. How does one know the internal state of affairs - such as when
cooking is complete?

3. I'd appreciate some measure of the importance of the second
outer cover (by testing the cooking with and without).

4. Can anyone suggest a valid comparison test to be able to use in
a stove efficiency test? The water inside is always at exactly 100 C and
little or none is boiling away.

5. This design should significantly improve a haybox cooker
performance as there are three layers of stainless steel separating the
food from the "straw". Testing of internal temperatures over time would be
a useful piece of data (which the inventor might already have)

6. Are there any list members in Mumbai who can check out and
report on Mr Bhide's interest to export units? After testing, I think this
could have worldwide market application - as it could be scaled to
different sizes and is stove-type-independent. I hope he has a patent
(unless others think that all this is old stuff). The internal heat steam
recovery is not new, but the multiple inverted outer layers and the seating
may be. His price looks good and we should be supporting such innovations.
India looks to me to be the place for production - we in the US couldn't
buy such a nice looking unit for three times the price.

Comments?

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From eschmidt at stlnet.com Wed Dec 6 08:04:17 2000
From: eschmidt at stlnet.com (Ed Schmidt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: query on a new cookpot seen in Pune
In-Reply-To: <v01540b00b653baae14da@[204.131.233.11]>
Message-ID: <3A2E3A3D.2D4F@stlnet.com>

Ron:

The stacked cookpots part of this arrangement sounds like an array of
tiffins, which are a collection of fitted and stacked pots commonly used
for transporting multiple courses for a meal, usually lunch. One can
frequently see these in Mumbai on the backs of bicycles as delivery
folks carry lunches to business people in the city.

Ed Schmidt
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in Wed Dec 6 11:58:06 2000
From: adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in (A.D. Karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: query on a new cookpot seen in Pune
In-Reply-To: <v01540b00b653baae14da@[204.131.233.11]>
Message-ID: <001d01c05fa6$31a9df00$8d52c5cb@vsnl.net.in>

Dear Ron and stovers,
The cookpot that Ron and Alex saw in Pune was already known to
housewives in India, at least since 1940. We used to call it a "cooker". In
the present model, the manufacturer has just inverted the cookpot, so that
the lid sits on the stove. In the older model, the tall cylindrical pot
formed the body of the cookpot, which sat directly on the fire. It carried
about an inch of water.Three or four pots carrying different food items,
such as rice, beans, vegetables, meat, etc. were placed one on top of
another within a wire cage and lowered into the cookpot. A loose fitting
lid covered this pot (if the lid is tight, it would be blown off by the
pressure of the steam). In those days, housewives used charcoal fire. The
stove carried just enough coal to last as long as the required cooking time
(about half an hour was sufficient). The water in the cookpot was allowed to
boil, which filled the entire pot with steam, having approximately the same
temperature as boiling water. After setting this pot on a charcoal stove,
the housewife could even go out of the house for shopping, and even if she
returned after an hour, the food was well cooked and still warm, but never
overcooked, because the fire had gone out after half an hour. Nowadays, an
electric cooker, working on the same principle, is available in the Indian
market. It has a timer, which turns the current off after a certain time.
Even we use the electric cooker in our own household.
There also exists another model, developed in Calcutta, called ic-mic
cooker. It has a double walled cylindrical outer vessel, which carries about
an inch of water at the bottom. The pots carrying the food items sit one on
top of another in this cylinder. Its top is closed by a lid. The ic-mic
stove has been modified by us to suit any fuel, from charcoal, wood chips,
sawdust to electricity. This was displayed on our table in the exhibition.
Incidentally, our attention was drawn to ic-mic stove after a discussion
about samovars on the stoves list. We are also trying out a version in
which the pots will sit side by side in an insulated container which would
allow removal of a particular pot after a particular time, without
disturbing other pots.
According to the inventor, Mr. Patel, his pot needs a special stove
which is still under development. We have invited him to demonstrate the
system to us when it is ready. We will keep you posted on this one.
Yours
A.D.Karve & Priya

----- Original Message -----
From: Ronal W. Larson <larcon@sni.net>
To: <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 4:09 PM
Subject: query on a new cookpot seen in Pune

> Pune conference attendees and other stovers:
>
> At the Pune conference, I (same time as Alex English) talked briefly with
a
> salesman for an interesting new cooking utensil apparently recently
> developed and manufactured in Mumbai (Bombay). This consisted of about 6
> or 7 separate parts.

From karve at wmi.co.in Wed Dec 6 12:17:51 2000
From: karve at wmi.co.in (karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: BFCS-2000: A report
Message-ID: <3A2E7209.3BB101F7@wmi.co.in>

International Conference on Biomass-based Fuels and Cooking Systems
(BFCS-2000): A Report

A lot of research and development work is going on all over the world
on the use of biomass energy in the rural domestic energy sector in the
developing countries. A leading Indian NGO in the field of rural
development, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI), had
organised the International Conference on Biomass-based Fuels and
Cooking Systems (BFCS-2000), at Pune, during November 20-24, 2000. The
conference brought together international biomass energy experts, on a
single platform, for the first time, in the last decade.
In all, 80 delegates participated in BFCS-2000. Of these, 55 delegates
were from different parts of India, and 25 delegates from outside the
country. Of the non-Indian delegates, 12 delegates were from other Asian
countries, 1 was from the African continent, 5 were from the European
countries and 7 from the American continent. The delegates included
scientists and technologists, social scientists, economists, development
experts, representatives of Indian as well as international monetary and
policy making bodies, representatives of government organisations as
well as NGOs, renewable energy entrepreneurs, etc. It is noteworthy that
none of the delegates was a guest-invitee. All the delegates bore their
own expenses for participating in the conference. Every delegate had
personal hands-on experience in his/her field. As a result, each paper
dealt with concrete data and recommendations rather than platitudinous
and vague concepts.
The conference was inaugurated by Prof. Dr. G.S. Tasgaonkar, Chairman
of the Pune Chapter of the Institution of Engineers. There was a special
Poster Session for the delegates to display information about their
work. The Poster Session was inaugurated by Dr. Ronal Larson, biomass
energy expert and Moderator of the International Internet discussion
group on Stoves. As a parallel event of the conference, an
open-to-public Exhibition on Renewable Energy was also organised during
November 20-22, 2000. The Exhibition was inaugurated by Dr. M.A. Ghare,
Vice-President of AFARM, which is a conglomeration of a large number of
grassroots level NGOs in Maharashtra. About 10 manufacturers of
renewable energy devices (including two non-Indian companies) displayed
their products in the exhibition. It was visited by about 1000 people
during the three days.
On the first three days of the conference, the delegates presented about
50 papers dealing with various aspects of the topic of the conference.
Almost every paper was followed by in depth discussions. On the last two
days, the delegates visited ARTI’s field station and Rural
Entrepreneurship Development Centre (REDC), near Phaltan, Dist. Satara,
and, a village adopted by ARTI Technical Back up support Unit under
National Programme on Improved Chulha (NPIC) for demonstration of models
of improved stoves.
Nearly 75-80% of the population in the developing world relies on wood
and waste biomass as fuel for cooking and room heating. In most cases,
the agricultural and forestry waste biomass is used as fuel, but in
certain regions of the world, the demands of the domestic energy sector
have put a severe pressure on the precious forest resources. This in
itself is a cause for environmental concern. However, a more critical
issue is that of the pollution of the indoor air due to the soot and
smoke produced by inefficient combustion of biomass fuels inside the
house.
Several studies conducted over the last couple of decades have revealed
that poor indoor air quality is one of the major factors contributing to
the poor state of health of rural women and children in the developing
countries. 1.5% of the total deaths among Indian women can be attributed
to chronic diseases of the respiratory system. Among these, the
percentage of women using wood or biomass for cooking for 10-15 years is
very large. The percentage of blindness and tuberculosis is the highest
among women using traditional chulhas, as compared to any other
population group. Through several recent studies, a direct correlation
is emerging between deaths and diseases in infants and young children,
and use of wood and biomass as fuel in the house. An important factor to
be noted in this context is this: The number of untimely deaths is just
one side of the coin. A general and chronic state of poor health or a
disability like blindness adversely affects the way of life and that too
must be borne in mind while assessing the health impact of poor indoor
air quality.
The seriousness of the problem is underlined when we note that the
dependence of the global rural population on biomass energy is not
expected to reduce significantly for at least a century or so. In fact,
if studies of energy usage trends are anything to go by, the number of
people relying on biomass energy is expected to increase over the next
few decades. Also, the fossil fuel resources are dwindling down, and the
so-called non-conventional energy sources like solar energy are failing
to deliver the promised goods. Thus, there is a strong chance that even
the developed world will revert to biomass energy in the near future. In
this context, the importance of BFCS-2000 cannot be over-emphasised.
The conference had two special sessions to discuss the issue of indoor
air quality in the context of the use of biomass fuels for cooking and
room heating. During these sessions, a number of papers based on field
level as well as laboratory level studies were presented. These papers
discussed the methodologies of such studies, and also provided concrete
data that highlighted the severity of the problem.
The simplest short term solution to the problem is to promote the
so-called improved stoves. over the last few decades, several approaches
have been attempted through co-ordinated multidisciplinary programmes
involving biomass energy scientists and technologists on one hand, and
developmental experts, policy makers and field level implementers on the
other. The common theme of these programmes has been to design and
develop improved stoves and disseminate them in the rural areas. The
National Programme on Improved Chulha (NPIC), sponsored by the Ministry
of Non-conventional Energy Sources (MNES) in India is one such
programme. It beats all other programmes in the geographic area covered,
the number of potential beneficiaries, as well as the widely diverse
cooking and eating habits and other cooking-related myths and taboos
that have to be tackled. Several papers presented in the conference
dealt with the possible designs for improved stoves that would save
fuel, reduce air pollution, be easy to manufacture/install and operate,
and yet would be affordable to the rural users.
Conversion of wood and biomass into standard, superior fuels (char,
alcohol, woodgas, biogas, etc.), and designing and promoting cooking
devices for clean and efficient utilisation of such fuels is a more
lasting solution to the problem. The technologies for conversion of
biomass into superior fuels have already been developed, but primarily
from the point of view of production of industrial fuels. It is possible
to modify the conversion technologies to enable local production of
biomass-based fuels in rural areas. Research and development work in
this context has already begun. As a parallel activity, designs of
cooking devices operating on such biomass-based fuels and having all the
desirable features from the viewpoint of the rural user, are also being
developed. These topics were the main theme of the conference and a
large number of papers concentrated on these frontier areas of research
in the field of biomass energy.
The new biomass-based fuel and cooking system combinations that are
currently being developed and field-tested, need to be promoted and
popularised in the rural areas. The biggest hurdle of course will be to
convince people that the apparently ‘free-of-cost’ unprocessed wood or
biomass are actually extracting a heavy price from the users, and
compared to that the superior biomass-based fuels are cheaper. The
successful commercialisation strategies demonstrated in the case of
improved stoves can be used as a guideline in this context.
Consequently, a special session in the conference was devoted to a
critical appraisal of the improved stoves promotion strategies employed
in different parts of the world. The session was followed by a panel
discussion on potential strategies to be implemented for the new fuel
and cooking system combinations.
A widespread promotion of biomass-based fuels also requires a closer
look at biomass availability in rural areas and a supporting movement of
R&D on and promotion of agroforestry and other systems of biomass
production. A few papers dealt with assessing the availability of
biomass in rural areas and production of biomass exclusively for the
purpose of production of useful energy.
All in all, BFCS-2000 confirmed that conversion of biomass to superior
fuels and utilisation of these fuels in appropriately designed cooking
systems, is a realisable and sustainable route to tackling the issue of
indoor air pollution. It was also noted that production and sale of the
new fuels and stoves can be a novel source of income and employment in
the rural areas. The increased local need for biomass will provide the
farming community with an additional source of income. Local production
of energy will be a significant step towards village level self-reliance
- an important ingredient of sustainable rural development. The biggest
benefit of course will be an improved state of health of women and
children.
It was also appreciated that implementation of this solution requires a
mammoth effort at a variety of levels. It requires involvement of
agricultural scientists, biomass energy scientists and technologists,
indoor air quality experts, rural development experts, financiers,
governmental policy making and implementing agencies, technology
disseminators, political leaders, etc. A co-ordinated effort of all
these people and agencies, spread over a decade or so, can bring about a
change. The task is difficult but not impossible.

begin:vcard
n:Karve;Priyadarshini
tel;fax:-
tel;home:91 020 5423258
tel;work:91 020 5442217/4390348/4392284
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://members.tripod.com/ARTI_India/index.html
org:Appropriate Rural Technology Institue (ARTI)
version:2.1
email;internet:karve@wmi.co.in
title:Member
note:ARTI is an NGO undertaking research projects to study, develop, standardise, implement, commercialise and popularise innovative appropriate rural technologies with special emphasis on making traditional rural enterprises more profitable and generating new employment opportunities through introduction of novel business possibilities in rural areas.
adr;quoted-printable:;;2nd Floor, Maninee Apartments,=0D=0AOpposite Pure Foods Co., Dhayarigaon,;Pune,;Maharashtra;411 041;India
fn:Dr. Priyadarshini Karve
end:vcard

From english at adan.kingston.net Wed Dec 6 22:03:07 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Charcoal making demo in India
Message-ID: <200012070257.VAA29259@adan.kingston.net>

Dear Stovers,

If anyone is interested in my activities at the ARTI field station
after the conference, I have posted some pictures at
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/phaltan/phaltan.htm

If you are interested in the somewhat related paper I submitted to
the conference, it is posted at
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/paperhtml/Punepaper2b.htm

Alex

From larcon at sni.net Wed Dec 6 23:40:19 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Forwarding non-member submission related to Kenyan stoves
Message-ID: <v01540b02b65476a9355b@[204.131.233.20]>

Stovers (especially those in Kenya): Perhaps someone can help this
gentleman?? I think we would all benefit if you cc'd this list.

John - Please let me know if you would care to be a (free) member of the
stoves list. There are apt to be some valuable contributions over the next
several weeks following a recently concluded stoves conference. Be sure
also to look at our web site and the CREST archives for stoves for other
possible ideas. I believe we have about a half-dozen members in Nairobi,
so you should receive some help.

Ron

>Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from ["Fantsuam
>Foundation" <fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>]
>
>Subject: RFI: Upesi stoves

>I am looking for information about the Kenyan organisation that can provide
>training in the construction of efficient biomass cooking stoves. I have
>heard of the Upesi stoves but do not have any further information about
>them. Thank you
>
>John Dada
>Fantsuam Foundation
>
<fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Dec 7 10:01:02 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Biomass Gasification Data Base (SARGOB)
Message-ID: <11.cb87117.2760fe43@cs.com>

Dear All:

Let me introduce the "State of the Art Review of Gasification of Biomass"
(SARGOB) database now being put on line by Prof. Parikh at the Indian
Institute of Technology in Bombay (Mumbai) IITB.

In the last few decades there have been very effective joint programs of U.S.
AID and other agencies with the major research institutes in India. I
remember in 1990 visiting Prof. Parikh's lab and being GREEN with envy at all
the nice equipment she had compared to what I could squeeze out of the US
Dept. of Energy for my gasification work at NREL.

Among other things she undertook a MASSIVE database on all aspects of biomass
relating to gasification. I have three volumes of these references and I also
have the database on my computers. Anytime I want a complete list of the
papers I published at that time, I go there - her records are much better
than mine. Anytime I want an extensive look at other work, I go there and
the keywords guide me. The alternative to good literature searching is
re-inventing the wheel and most of us don't want to waste our time on that.

Unfortunately about 1992 the project lost funding and Prof. Parikh has only
been making whatever entries she could on her own in her spare time, and she
has very little, being occupied with turning out excellent theses and
students. So, the SARGOB is a lot thinner in the last decade and many of you
won't find your name there.

~~~~~

Let me urge each of you to look in your own archives and send whatever
entries you wish preserved for posterity. If you know of other "seminal"
papers, please alert the authors to do likewise. I have half a dozen papers
that I will send her, adding key words as required.

Yours for not re-inventing the wheel.... TOM REED BEF CPC

In a message dated 12/6/00 12:18:29 AM Mountain Standard Time,
parikh@me.iitb.ernet.in writes:

<<
Dear ALL

We at IIT Bombay India have compiled a database on Gasification of
Biomass. This activity started in 1984. The database is know by the name
'SARGOB' [State of the Art Report on Gasification of Biomass]. The word
Gasification refers to Thermochemical Gasification and not Methanation
/Fermentation. In it's present form this database as on date contains 3620
records published in the period ranging from 1906 to 2000. The compilation
is quite exhaustive upto the year 1993 and not so exhaustive there-
after. In addition to the bibliographical information, the database also
contains the abstract of each paper. It is an interactive database in
which the records can be accessed / retreived on the basis of
keyword/sub-keyword OR country OR year of publication OR Author of the
record. Total number of keywords are 27 and sub-keywords are 437 and total
number of Authors/co-authors whose publications are part of this database
are 3767. The database is in the process of continuous up-dation where not
only new record are being added but also new keywords and sub-keywords
are being added. We now plan to put this database on our website of this
center [GARP_IITB] which is currently under construction. As per the plan
it will be an interactive database which will also be able to link to the
web-sites of the authors for complete papers.

Obviously we would like to make SARGOB as complete and up to date as
possible. It is in this context I request all the members of CREST mailing
list to kindly furnish information about their post-1994 publications in
the area of THERMOCHEMICAL GASIFICATION OF BIOMASS, PROCESSES, TECHNOLOGY
UTILISATION, PROGRAM IMPLEMTATION, MANAGEMENT ISSUES AND FIELD
EXPERIENCES.

Furnishing any further details on the EXISTING SARGOB will be our great
pleasure.

MRS PARIKH
>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From owen at africaonline.co.ke Thu Dec 7 11:29:18 2000
From: owen at africaonline.co.ke (Matthew Owen)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Forwarding non-member submission related to Kenyan stoves
In-Reply-To: <v01540b02b65476a9355b@[204.131.233.20]>
Message-ID: <00dd01c0606a$4ceeeb60$1502b00a@oemcomputer>

Dear John,

I'd suggest you contact Stephen Gitonga at Intermediate Technology
Development Group (ITDG) in Nairobi. He heads a regional energy project
across East Africa and a also deals with a specific project on the Upesi
stove in western Kenya headquartered in Kisumu. ITDG have been working on
the Upesi woodstove, including its technical development, production and
marketing, for over 8 years.

Stephen's address is:

gitonga@itdg.or.ke

or tel: Nairobi (02) 719413 or 719313

Matthew Owen
Chardust Ltd.
Nairobi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronal W. Larson" <larcon@sni.net>
To: <stoves@crest.org>
Cc: "Fantsuam Foundation" <fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 6:50 AM
Subject: Forwarding non-member submission related to Kenyan stoves

> Stovers (especially those in Kenya): Perhaps someone can help this
> gentleman?? I think we would all benefit if you cc'd this list.
>
> John - Please let me know if you would care to be a (free) member of the
> stoves list. There are apt to be some valuable contributions over the
next
> several weeks following a recently concluded stoves conference. Be sure
> also to look at our web site and the CREST archives for stoves for other
> possible ideas. I believe we have about a half-dozen members in Nairobi,
> so you should receive some help.
>
> Ron
>
>
> >Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from
["Fantsuam
> >Foundation" <fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>]
> >
> >Subject: RFI: Upesi stoves
>
>
> >I am looking for information about the Kenyan organisation that can
provide
> >training in the construction of efficient biomass cooking stoves. I have
> >heard of the Upesi stoves but do not have any further information about
> >them. Thank you
> >
> >John Dada
> >Fantsuam Foundation
> >
> <fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>
>
> Ronal W. Larson, PhD
> 21547 Mountsfield Dr.
> Golden, CO 80401, USA
> 303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
> larcon@sni.net
>
>
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

From larcon at sni.net Thu Dec 7 12:53:06 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Forwarding Beatrice Khamati Njenga on Kenya
Message-ID: <v01540b01b65571c4710a@[204.131.233.21]>

Beatrice - Thanks a lot. Can you brief the list on the character and
background of the Upesi stove.

Ron

>X-ROUTED: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:21:12 +0300
>From: "Ben Kiai" <xcel@kenyaweb.com>
>To: <larcon@sni.net>
>Subject: Re: Forwarding non-member submission related to Kenyan
>Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:55:47 +0300
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
>
>Hello,
>In Kenya there are several organisations working on biomass stoves. There is
>SCODE in Nakuru; Appropriate Technology Centre (ATC) at Kenyatta University
>on Thika road in Nairobi; and ITDG-EA off State House Crescent in Nairobi.
>All these organisations have some working partnership anyhow and so any one
>of them would direct you to the other.
>
>Beatrice
>Beatrice Khamati Njenga
>Appropriate Technology Centre
>Kenyatta University
>-----Original Message-----
>From: larcon@sni.net <larcon@sni.net>
>To: Xcel <Xcel>
>Date: Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:30 AM
>Subject: Forwarding non-member submission related to Kenyan
>
>
>>
>>Stovers (especially those in Kenya): Perhaps someone can help this
>>gentleman?? I think we would all benefit if you cc'd this list.
>>
>>John - Please let me know if you would care to be a (free) member of the
>>stoves list. There are apt to be some valuable contributions over the next
>>several weeks following a recently concluded stoves conference. Be sure
>>also to look at our web site and the CREST archives for stoves for other
>>possible ideas. I believe we have about a half-dozen members in Nairobi,
>>so you should receive some help.
>>
>>Ron
>>
>>
>>>Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from ["Fantsuam
>>>Foundation" <fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>]
>>>
>>>Subject: RFI: Upesi stoves
>>
>>
>>>I am looking for information about the Kenyan organisation that can
>provide
>>>training in the construction of efficient biomass cooking stoves. I have
>>>heard of the Upesi stoves but do not have any further information about
>>>them. Thank you
>>>
>>>John Dada
>>>Fantsuam Foundation
>>>
>><fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>
>>
>>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>>larcon@sni.net
>>
>>
>>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>>
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Thu Dec 7 13:10:05 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Forwarding Musunga on improved energy saving Maendeleo/ Upesi stoves.
Message-ID: <v01540b03b65575e769dd@[204.131.233.29]>

Musunga - I thought it appropriate to also send this to the list in case
there are others interested in the Upesi. Coul dyou briefly tell the list
abolut each of the stoves you mention>

Thanks for the help provided.

And thanks also to Matthew Owen for similar help in amessage going directly
to the list.. Clearly Nairobi is well equipped with good expertise. Can
you get together with the others and let us know more on this stove.?

Ron

>Reply-To: "Reecon" <reecon@mitsuminet.com>
>From: "Reecon" <reecon@mitsuminet.com>
>To: <fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>
>Cc: "Ronal W. Larson" <larcon@sni.net>
>Subject: Trainning in improved energy saving Maendeleo/ Upesi stoves.
>Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:43:34 +0300
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
>Status: O
>
>Dear John,
>We are a company called Renewable Energy Engineering Contractors. We
>specialize in Training and fabrication of Renewable energy appliances such
>as Energy saving woodfuel Jikos, Charcoal Jikos and Improved energy saving
>Kilns. We are also involved in the Training and Construction of Biogas
>plants and Solar dryers for food preservation. We are located in Ngong
>town, Mansultan Boma Building. We would be quite happy if you could please
>get in touch with us for further information.
>Regards,
>Musungu W.N.
>
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
><META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear John,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We are a company called Renewable Energy
>Engineering Contractors. We specialize in Training and fabrication of
>Renewable
>energy appliances such as Energy saving woodfuel Jikos, Charcoal Jikos and
>Improved energy saving Kilns. We are also involved in the Training and
>Construction of Biogas plants and Solar dryers for food preservation. We are
>located in Ngong town, Mansultan Boma Building. We would be quite happy if you
>could please get in touch with us for further information.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Musungu W.N.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From dstill at epud.org Sat Dec 9 02:10:15 2000
From: dstill at epud.org (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: New ASAT program at Aprovecho!
Message-ID: <000601bbfa16$8f9742a0$162b74d8@default>

Advanced Studies in Appropriate Technology
Aprovecho Research Center
80574 Hazelton Road
Cottage Grove, Oregon 97424
(541) 942-0302
dstill@epud.org

The ASAT program at Aprovecho has a new home in the Irwin and Helene Kenmore
Research Facility. The 30 by 30 foot insulated pole building was funded by
the Kenmore’s. It consists of a metal and wood shop. A portion of the
building is also dedicated to experimenting with wood stoves. The building
will be the classroom for Spring term 2001 interns.

The ASAT program grew out of Aprovecho’s work with non-governmental
organizations from many countries who desired our help with their projects.
Aprovecho offers free research and development to organizations working with
the poor. Typical projects include: Working with a local group in a former
Soviet bloc country to improve efficiency in wood heating stoves. Helping
SHE, International to develop a more rugged and vernacular panel type solar
cooker. Co-developing a griddle cook stove made from cast cement for HELPS
in the highlands of Guatemala. Writing a booklet on conservation for Mexican
neighbors of The Nature Conservancy land trusts.

ASAT students study with the researchers at Aprovecho under the guidance of
Dr. Larry Winiarski and Dean Still, author of the Capturing Heat Series. We
work together five days a week on real world problems trying to bring low
cost and locally built solutions to the world’s poor. It’s exciting work!
Each intern completes new original work and writes up our progress for
publication. We experiment, build and test prototypes to further our
understanding of sustainability. Each morning begins with a design
conference reviewing the literature on a subject which forms a basis for
further hands on investigation.

Spring classes begin March 5 and continue for 10 weeks until May 11. Summer
session is June 4 – September 14.

Interns can stay in a local Tibetan Buddhist Monastery in Cottage Grove, 6
miles from the research center. We rent the top floor of their building
where up to four ASAT interns sleep in separate rooms. Interns cook in the
monastery kitchen and can take part in ceremonies if desired. The cost of
the ten week session is $1,500.

Please call or email Dean for more info or check out the Aprovecho homepage
www.efn.org/~apro

From larcon at sni.net Tue Dec 12 13:02:34 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Forwarding Beatrice Khamati Njenga on Kenya
Message-ID: <v01540b03b65c093bbb50@[204.131.233.29]>

"GI":

Beatrice has suggested that we followup with you on the details of
the Upesi stove.

Perhaps you could answer these additional questions.

1. Does the Upesi employ a chimney?
2. What are the reported efficiencies in boiling water tests for
the Upesi and its predecessors?
3. Have Indoor Air Quality measurements been made - and if so what
do they show before and after?

Ron

>X-ROUTED: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:03:34 +0300
>From: "Ben Kiai" <xcel@kenyaweb.com>
>To: <larcon@sni.net>
>Subject: Re: Forwarding Beatrice Khamati Njenga on Kenya
>Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:08:28 +0300
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
>
>Hello,
>The Upesi stove is a wood-burning domestic stove that comes in several
>different versions: the portable all-ceramic model; the the
>ceramic-liner-in-mud-platform model which is the most widely used, and the
>twin-Upesi (two adjacent Upesi liners encased in a mud platform).
>The model was originally called the Maendeleo Stove. It was designed by the
>Women and Energy project of Maendeleo ya Wanawake (the national women's
>programme), through funding and technical support from GTZ. The design and
>testing was carried out at the Approrpiate Technology Centre of Kenyatta
>University in 1984 and field tested in two rural areas before full scale
>dissemination. Several other improved rural stoves were developed through
>collaborative ventures by organisations including ITDG, CARE, KENGO, and the
>Ministry of Energy. In the early 1990's KENGO, ITDG and other organisations
>carried out a field test in the area to determine the most acceptable and
>efficient improved wood burning stove. The Maendeleo won. It was later
>re-named Upesi, Kiswahili for Fast, by ITDG's rural stoves project, as part
>of a commercialisation strategy. gitonga@itdg.or.ke can provide the
>details.
>
>Regards,
>Beatrice
>Beatrice Khamati Njenga
>Appropriate Technology Centre
>Kenyatta University
>Phone 02-810782
>-----Original Message-----
>From: larcon@sni.net <larcon@sni.net>
>To: Xcel <Xcel>
>Date: Thursday, December 07, 2000 8:43 PM
>Subject: Forwarding Beatrice Khamati Njenga on Kenya
>
>
>>
>>Beatrice - Thanks a lot. Can you brief the list on the character and
>>background of the Upesi stove.
>>
>>Ron
>>
>>>X-ROUTED: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:21:12 +0300
>>>From: "Ben Kiai" <xcel@kenyaweb.com>
>>>To: <larcon@sni.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Forwarding non-member submission related to Kenyan
>>>Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:55:47 +0300
>>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>X-Priority: 3
>>>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
>>>
>>>Hello,
>>>In Kenya there are several organisations working on biomass stoves. There
>is
>>>SCODE in Nakuru; Appropriate Technology Centre (ATC) at Kenyatta
>University
>>>on Thika road in Nairobi; and ITDG-EA off State House Crescent in Nairobi.
>>>All these organisations have some working partnership anyhow and so any
>one
>>>of them would direct you to the other.
>>>
>>>Beatrice
>>>Beatrice Khamati Njenga
>>>Appropriate Technology Centre
>>>Kenyatta University
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: larcon@sni.net <larcon@sni.net>
>>>To: Xcel <Xcel>
>>>Date: Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:30 AM
>>>Subject: Forwarding non-member submission related to Kenyan
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Stovers (especially those in Kenya): Perhaps someone can help this
>>>>gentleman?? I think we would all benefit if you cc'd this list.
>>>>
>>>>John - Please let me know if you would care to be a (free) member of the
>>>>stoves list. There are apt to be some valuable contributions over the
>next
>>>>several weeks following a recently concluded stoves conference. Be sure
>>>>also to look at our web site and the CREST archives for stoves for other
>>>>possible ideas. I believe we have about a half-dozen members in Nairobi,
>>>>so you should receive some help.
>>>>
>>>>Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from
>["Fantsuam
>>>>>Foundation" <fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>]
>>>>>
>>>>>Subject: RFI: Upesi stoves
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I am looking for information about the Kenyan organisation that can
>>>provide
>>>>>training in the construction of efficient biomass cooking stoves. I have
>>>>>heard of the Upesi stoves but do not have any further information about
>>>>>them. Thank you
>>>>>
>>>>>John Dada
>>>>>Fantsuam Foundation
>>>>>
>>>><fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>
>>>>
>>>>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>>>>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>>>>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>>>>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>>>>larcon@sni.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>>>>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>>>>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>>>>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>>>>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>>>>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>>>>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>>>>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>>>>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>>>>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>>larcon@sni.net
>>
>>
>>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From dkammen at socrates.Berkeley.EDU Tue Dec 12 15:29:15 2000
From: dkammen at socrates.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel M. Kammen)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Forwarding Beatrice Khamati Njenga on Kenya
In-Reply-To: <v01540b03b65c093bbb50@[204.131.233.29]>
Message-ID: <v04011705b65c399fc550@[128.32.116.210]>

Dear Beatrice, Steve, and the rest of the Stovers,

We have done some extensive field and controlled 'lab' testing of the Upesi
stove, along with a number of others.

You can check these results in a series of papers that can be downloaded from
the following www site (the list of papers is at the bottom of the page):

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~rael/cookstkenya.html

Cheers,

Dan

>"GI":
>
> Beatrice has suggested that we followup with you on the details of
>the Upesi stove.
>
> Perhaps you could answer these additional questions.
>
> 1. Does the Upesi employ a chimney?
> 2. What are the reported efficiencies in boiling water tests for
>the Upesi and its predecessors?
> 3. Have Indoor Air Quality measurements been made - and if so what
>do they show before and after?
>
>Ron
>
>
>
>>X-ROUTED: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:03:34 +0300
>>From: "Ben Kiai" <xcel@kenyaweb.com>
>>To: <larcon@sni.net>
>>Subject: Re: Forwarding Beatrice Khamati Njenga on Kenya
>>Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:08:28 +0300
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>X-Priority: 3
>>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
>>
>>Hello,
>>The Upesi stove is a wood-burning domestic stove that comes in several
>>different versions: the portable all-ceramic model; the the
>>ceramic-liner-in-mud-platform model which is the most widely used, and the
>>twin-Upesi (two adjacent Upesi liners encased in a mud platform).
>>The model was originally called the Maendeleo Stove. It was designed by the
>>Women and Energy project of Maendeleo ya Wanawake (the national women's
>>programme), through funding and technical support from GTZ. The design and
>>testing was carried out at the Approrpiate Technology Centre of Kenyatta
>>University in 1984 and field tested in two rural areas before full scale
>>dissemination. Several other improved rural stoves were developed through
>>collaborative ventures by organisations including ITDG, CARE, KENGO, and the
>>Ministry of Energy. In the early 1990's KENGO, ITDG and other organisations
>>carried out a field test in the area to determine the most acceptable and
>>efficient improved wood burning stove. The Maendeleo won. It was later
>>re-named Upesi, Kiswahili for Fast, by ITDG's rural stoves project, as part
>>of a commercialisation strategy. gitonga@itdg.or.ke can provide the
>>details.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Beatrice
>>Beatrice Khamati Njenga
>>Appropriate Technology Centre
>>Kenyatta University
>>Phone 02-810782
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: larcon@sni.net <larcon@sni.net>
>>To: Xcel <Xcel>
>>Date: Thursday, December 07, 2000 8:43 PM
>>Subject: Forwarding Beatrice Khamati Njenga on Kenya
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Beatrice - Thanks a lot. Can you brief the list on the character and
>>>background of the Upesi stove.
>>>
>>>Ron
>>>
>>>>X-ROUTED: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:21:12 +0300
>>>>From: "Ben Kiai" <xcel@kenyaweb.com>
>>>>To: <larcon@sni.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: Forwarding non-member submission related to Kenyan
>>>>Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 09:55:47 +0300
>>>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>X-Priority: 3
>>>>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>>>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
>>>>
>>>>Hello,
>>>>In Kenya there are several organisations working on biomass stoves. There
>>is
>>>>SCODE in Nakuru; Appropriate Technology Centre (ATC) at Kenyatta
>>University
>>>>on Thika road in Nairobi; and ITDG-EA off State House Crescent in Nairobi.
>>>>All these organisations have some working partnership anyhow and so any
>>one
>>>>of them would direct you to the other.
>>>>
>>>>Beatrice
>>>>Beatrice Khamati Njenga
>>>>Appropriate Technology Centre
>>>>Kenyatta University
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: larcon@sni.net <larcon@sni.net>
>>>>To: Xcel <Xcel>
>>>>Date: Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:30 AM
>>>>Subject: Forwarding non-member submission related to Kenyan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Stovers (especially those in Kenya): Perhaps someone can help this
>>>>>gentleman?? I think we would all benefit if you cc'd this list.
>>>>>
>>>>>John - Please let me know if you would care to be a (free) member of the
>>>>>stoves list. There are apt to be some valuable contributions over the
>>next
>>>>>several weeks following a recently concluded stoves conference. Be sure
>>>>>also to look at our web site and the CREST archives for stoves for other
>>>>>possible ideas. I believe we have about a half-dozen members in Nairobi,
>>>>>so you should receive some help.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from
>>["Fantsuam
>>>>>>Foundation" <fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Subject: RFI: Upesi stoves
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I am looking for information about the Kenyan organisation that can
>>>>provide
>>>>>>training in the construction of efficient biomass cooking stoves. I have
>>>>>>heard of the Upesi stoves but do not have any further information about
>>>>>>them. Thank you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>John Dada
>>>>>>Fantsuam Foundation
>>>>>>
>>>>><fantsuamfoundation@fantsuam.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>>>>>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>>>>>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>>>>>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>>>>>larcon@sni.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>>>>>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>>>>>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>>>>>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>>>>>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>>>>>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>>>>>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>>>>>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>>>>>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>>>>>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>>>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>>>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>>>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>>>larcon@sni.net
>>>
>>>
>>>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>>>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>>>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>>>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>>>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>>>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>>>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>>>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>>>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>>>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>>
>
>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>larcon@sni.net
>
>
>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Daniel M. Kammen
Associate Professor of Energy and Society
Director, Renewable and Appropriate Energy Laboratory (RAEL)
Energy and Resources Group (ERG)
310 Barrows Hall
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720-3050

Tel: 510-642-1139 (Office)
Tel: 510-642-1640 (ERG Front Desk)
Fax: 510-642-1085 (ERG Fax)
Tel: 510-643-2243 (RAEL Phone & Fax)
Email: dkammen@socrates.berkeley.edu
Kammen http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~dkammen
RAEL http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~rael
ERG http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~erg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From larcon at sni.net Wed Dec 13 13:33:09 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Introducing new member Zheng Luo
Message-ID: <v01540b03b65d38a3369c@[204.131.233.1]>

Stovers:

The following just in from the newest list member - who makes us
200 in total.

Miss Zheng's comments speak for themselves. But I can add that
hers was the only paper dealing with Internationally-funded methods for
greenhouse gas reduction at the household level (although many of us
mentioned the topic as an important driver). I strongly recommend her
paper

Zheng:

It was too bad that the meeting couldn't have gone a little longer
so we could have had more chance to talk. Good luck on your continuing
efforts - which are so important. We look forward to hearing more about
your work at FAO.

>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:06:22 +0700
>From: "Luo, Zheng (FAORAP)" <Zheng.Luo@fao.org>
>Subject: subscribe to stove mailing list
>To: "'stoves-request@crest.org'" <stoves-request@crest.org>
>Cc: "'larcon@sni.net'" <larcon@sni.net>
>MIME-version: 1.0
>Status: U
>
>Dear webmaster and Mr. Larson,
>
>I have been reading messages and getting information from the stove mailing
>list for the last two years or so. After the Pune meeting with Mr. Larson, I
>was encouraged to subscribe to the list though with doubt of my limited
>contribution to it.
>
>A little self introduction: I have been working at FAO, Bangkok for more
>than three years since my graduation from Amsterdam University in 1997. My
>work at the Regional Wood Energy Development Programme in Asia (RWEDP)
>mainly focuses on environmental issues related to biomass use and
>technologies in member countries, especially indoor air pollution and GHG
>emissions, collecting and organising emission data for wood energy database,
>carrying out case studies on area-based environmental impacts from woodfuel
>use (generate questionnaires and design study frame work, field
>investigation, data and technology analysis), etc. I have written a few
>papers for meetings and publications discussing the relations between
>biomass energy and climate change, biomass energy as an option for GHG
>reduction in RWEDP member countries (including China), etc. I have worked
>together with UNEP on a project proposal to GEF in the area of climate
>change. The proposed project aims at reducing GHG emissions through
>promoting modern biomass energy application in households and SMIs.
>
>Thanks for your consideration
>
>kind regards
>
>Zheng
>
>p.s. Mr. Larson, it was wonderful meeting and talking to you and your wife
>in Pune. My best regards.
>
>Environmental consultant
>Regional Wood Energy Development Programme in Asia
>Maliwan Mansion
>39 Phra Atit Road
>Bangkok 10200
>Thailand
>* + 66-2-2802760 & 66-2-2817844 ex.213 (office); 66-2-9926021 (home)
>*+ 66-2-2800760
>* zheng.luo@fao.org <mailto:zheng.luo@fao.org> or zlluozheng@hotmail.com
><mailto:zlluozheng@hotmail.com>
>* http://www.rwedp.org <http://www.rwedp.org>
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Wed Dec 13 14:27:52 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Forwarding [hedon] on Earth Summit 2002 location
Message-ID: <v01540b05b65d3d394a62@[204.131.233.1]>

Stovers:
The following announcement of "Rio+10" just came in from Grant
Ballard-Tremeer - one of the few in the world who has written his doctoral
thesis on stoves - a very fine document. Look up his web site identified
below. His "Hedon" list is exactly on the subjects of "Rio + 10".

I learned a bit more about Grant from Cheng Luo (subject of my
previous forwarding) - who worked together in Amsterdam.

Grant -
Please keep "stoves" informed on this forthcoming conference.
Thanks for this first announcement.

Ron

>To: <hedon@egroups.com>
>From: "Grant Ballard-Tremeer" <grant@ecoharmony.com>
>Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:29:40 -0000
>Subject: [hedon] Earth Summit 2002 location
>
>Dear colleagues,
>
>The press release that follows will be of interest to many of you. It
>concerns the 2002 Earth Summit on Sustainable Development which will be held
>in Johannesburg South Africa. Further information may be found at
>http://www.earthsummit2002.org.
>
>Best wishes
>Grant
>
>-------------------
>Grant Ballard-Tremeer, visit ECO Ltd on the web at ecoharmony.com
>64C Fairholme Road, W14 9JY, London
>Tel +44-(0)20 7386 7930
>Fax +44-(0)870 137 2360
>Mobile +44-(0)777 391 2227
>eMail grant@ecoharmony.com
>Personal WebPages http://www.energy.demon.nl
>Household Energy Development Organisations' Network
>http://www.ecoharmony.net/hedon/
>-------------------
>
>
>
>--PRESS RELEASE--
>SA to hold 2002 Earth Summit
>
>The South African Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism
>announced on Sunday that the United Nations General Assembly on
>Environment and Sustainable Development (UNCED) had chosen South Africa
>to host the Earth Summit in 2002.
>
>In a statement, Rejoice Mabudafhasi, the deputy minister of
>environmental affairs and tourism, said that South Africa welcomed the
>decision to bring the conference to the African continent. The summit
>would be held in Johannesburg. "Bringing the Earth Summit to South
>Africa is a major boost for Africa as the major conference on
>sustainable development on our soil will firmly place these issues and
>debates on the agenda of our continent" said Mabudafhasi.
>
>In February, President Thabo Mbeki made a formal offer to the United
>Nations to host the 10-year Review Summit, popularly referred to as the
>Earth Summit 2002. 'It is significant that it should take place in the
>developing world' Several heads of state will attend the summit that is
>expected to draw about 40 000 participants. More than 130 heads of state
>participated in the summit in 1992 and it is expected that the majority
>of the 188 members of the UN will send delegations to the 2002 conference.
>More than 15 000 NGOs were represented at the 1992 meeting.
>
>Mabudafhasi said that the significance of the conference went beyond the
>actual event because it set the agenda for sustainable development and
>the environment for the next decade. "It is therefore significant that
>it should take place in the developing world where the issues of
>development and the environment are fundamental to the daily struggle
>against poverty." Earth Summit 2002 should deepen the global commitment
>to sustainable development and bring environmental issues to the fore.
>There is wide consensus that the primary focus of the summit should be
>poverty, development and the environment. Poverty and underdevelopment
>are seen as the fundamental threats to environmental security and
>sustainable development.
>
>In Related News the UN Secretariat has also released the following
>information from the UN General Assembly
>
>* The Rio+10 event will carry the title WORLD SUMMIT ON SUSTAINABLE
>DEVELOPMENT
>
>* CSD10 will function as the preparatory committee (Prepcom) for Rio+10,
>and will hold four PrepComs. The first prepcom is scheduled from 30
>April to 2 May 2001 (in New York), followed by prepcoms in late January
>2002 (in New York), mid-March 2002 (in New York) and mid-May 2002 (in
>Indonesia, at Ministerial level).
>
>* The event and its preparatory process will include active participation
>of NGOs and other major groups, including multi-stakeholder dialogues.
>The event will open accreditation to new NGOs interested in making a
>contribution to Rio+10.
>
> <http://www.earthsummit2002.org/es/Press%20Release/PB1%20-%207.gif>
>
>
>
>For more information about HEDON visit:
>www.ecoharmony.net/hedon
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From krksmith at uclink4.berkeley.edu Wed Dec 13 18:07:11 2000
From: krksmith at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Kirk R. Smith)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: New publications
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001213143817.01baf220@uclink4.berkeley.edu>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From larcon at sni.net Thu Dec 14 08:45:46 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Query: "BFCS-2002" @ "Earth Summit 2002" ("Rio + 10") ?
Message-ID: <v01540b06b65d40ab198d@[204.131.233.1]>

Stovers:

1. After forwarding the recent messages from Zheng and Grant, it
occured to me that perhaps "Earth Summit 2002" is offering a new
opportunity - to relatively painlessly have a quick followup meeting
through a parallel "BFCS-2002" meeting also in Johannesburg. This is to
ask the opinions of others.

2. At BFCS-2000, I mentioned having been professionally involved
in a 1981 UN Renewables Conference in Nairobi (I think the UN's first).
The US plans for participating were started under President Carter, but
concluded under President Reagan. (The US was blasted by many - seen as
having been the cause for the final declaration having little impact on
anything renewable. The US position paper talked not at all about stoves.)
One of the major pluses for me was seeing a comparative testing of jikos
(charcoal-burners) and maybe other stoves in a parallel citizen's
conference. My point here is that it is not too early to start trying to
influence our government's positions on sustainability and the negative
influence of most existing stoves.

3. At BFCS-2000, I think I also mentioned stopping in briefly at
the 1992 Rio-conference for a few days (a low cost stop on my way to a
different already-scheduled meeting in Ethiopia). Here I had no part on
the official side (I volunteered a few days at the booth sponsored by the
International Solar Energy Society (ISES).)

As noted in the just-forwarded message from Grant:

">More than 15 000 NGOs were represented at the 1992 meeting."

Some small subset of these 15000 NGOs took upon themselves the
awesome task of arranging a parallel "Citizen's Summit" - which involved
even more people than those who attended the official conference. There
were many huge outdoor tents set up and many well-known (even world-famous)
experts gave talks on "Rio-type" subjects. There was also a separate
public area where a single organization could rent a space of about 3
meters by 3 meters. Tens or hundreds of thousands of people toured through
these displays. The official delegates probably came in part (but it was
impossible for those who were not official delegates to get anywhere close
to the official proceedings). My recollection is that we bought a
(relatively cheap) several day pass to the tent-lectures and the exhibits.
(Someone has to cover these costs, which I am sure were heavily subsidized
as well.)

The US was again heavily blasted (I saw several burning effigies of
Pres. Bush) at this conference, as we were the main world force holding
back action - the US calling for more study. As I write this, it appears
that our next President is also to be a Bush. I doubt anyone will think
that the US position at Earth Summit 2002 will not have been affected by
last night's US Supreme Court Decision.

We interested in stove progress will now have a harder time, but I
don't think it is hopeless. My second question is how to optimally get
national governments all over the world (the "stoves" list probably
represents more than 40 countries) to include an interest in stoves and GHG
- in the official part of the agenda.

I have tentatively decided to attend and am guessing that a good
many of our 200 members will also think about it seriously if there is a
good stoves focus (as there should be).

4. My last point is now probably obvious - whether we should start trying to
get an official stoves "sub-conference" in place as a subset of the
citizen's meeting. The last message forwarded from Grant was on the
official side, but I think we can assume we will be hearing of a fully
parallel citizen's meeting taking place. Has any list member been part of
this parallel (totally a non-UN activity, I think) effort? Know anyone who
can make sure that stoves topics can get a special "tent" for two or three
days? I think we may have one South Africa list member, who I hope will
contact me.

If we are successful, I don't see much problem getting the actual
talks together. The problem will be in getting a local presence and a
presence amongst those developing the parallel citizen's meeting.

Last point is that Johannesburg is reported to be a very beautiful
and interesting city to visit (I've seen J'burg only from the airport so
far). Any comments on this aspect? Anyone able to identify a local
partner for arranging one or more stoves-oriented bus tours for instance?

Thoughts on any of the above?

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Dec 14 09:49:41 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Possible conference.. "BFCS-2002" @ "Earth Summit 2002" ("Rio + 10") ?
Message-ID: <76.5e292ca.276a3587@cs.com>

Dear Stovers:

South Africa is a unique combination of a developed country combined with
developing country problems. I first began working on stoves on a visit to
South Africa in 1985, comparing the clean "white" cities with the smoky black
townships.

They also have interesting work going on in gasification.....

They are a good place to be solving alternate energy problems for everyone.
I'd consider going to this conference if possible.

In a message dated 12/14/00 6:38:44 AM Mountain Standard Time, larcon@sni.net
writes:

<<
Stovers:

1. After forwarding the recent messages from Zheng and Grant, it
occured to me that perhaps "Earth Summit 2002" is offering a new
opportunity - to relatively painlessly have a quick followup meeting
through a parallel "BFCS-2002" meeting also in Johannesburg. This is to
ask the opinions of others.

2. At BFCS-2000, I mentioned having been professionally involved
in a 1981 UN Renewables Conference in Nairobi (I think the UN's first).
The US plans for participating were started under President Carter, but
concluded under President Reagan. (The US was blasted by many - seen as
having been the cause for the final declaration having little impact on
anything renewable. The US position paper talked not at all about stoves.)
One of the major pluses for me was seeing a comparative testing of jikos
(charcoal-burners) and maybe other stoves in a parallel citizen's
conference. My point here is that it is not too early to start trying to
influence our government's positions on sustainability and the negative
influence of most existing stoves.

3. At BFCS-2000, I think I also mentioned stopping in briefly at
the 1992 Rio-conference for a few days (a low cost stop on my way to a
different already-scheduled meeting in Ethiopia). Here I had no part on
the official side (I volunteered a few days at the booth sponsored by the
International Solar Energy Society (ISES).)

As noted in the just-forwarded message from Grant:

">More than 15 000 NGOs were represented at the 1992 meeting."

Some small subset of these 15000 NGOs took upon themselves the
awesome task of arranging a parallel "Citizen's Summit" - which involved
even more people than those who attended the official conference. There
were many huge outdoor tents set up and many well-known (even world-famous)
experts gave talks on "Rio-type" subjects. There was also a separate
public area where a single organization could rent a space of about 3
meters by 3 meters. Tens or hundreds of thousands of people toured through
these displays. The official delegates probably came in part (but it was
impossible for those who were not official delegates to get anywhere close
to the official proceedings). My recollection is that we bought a
(relatively cheap) several day pass to the tent-lectures and the exhibits.
(Someone has to cover these costs, which I am sure were heavily subsidized
as well.)

The US was again heavily blasted (I saw several burning effigies of
Pres. Bush) at this conference, as we were the main world force holding
back action - the US calling for more study. As I write this, it appears
that our next President is also to be a Bush. I doubt anyone will think
that the US position at Earth Summit 2002 will not have been affected by
last night's US Supreme Court Decision.

We interested in stove progress will now have a harder time, but I
don't think it is hopeless. My second question is how to optimally get
national governments all over the world (the "stoves" list probably
represents more than 40 countries) to include an interest in stoves and GHG
- in the official part of the agenda.

I have tentatively decided to attend and am guessing that a good
many of our 200 members will also think about it seriously if there is a
good stoves focus (as there should be).

4. My last point is now probably obvious - whether we should start
trying to
get an official stoves "sub-conference" in place as a subset of the
citizen's meeting. The last message forwarded from Grant was on the
official side, but I think we can assume we will be hearing of a fully
parallel citizen's meeting taking place. Has any list member been part of
this parallel (totally a non-UN activity, I think) effort? Know anyone who
can make sure that stoves topics can get a special "tent" for two or three
days? I think we may have one South Africa list member, who I hope will
contact me.

If we are successful, I don't see much problem getting the actual
talks together. The problem will be in getting a local presence and a
presence amongst those developing the parallel citizen's meeting.

Last point is that Johannesburg is reported to be a very beautiful
and interesting city to visit (I've seen J'burg only from the airport so
far). Any comments on this aspect? Anyone able to identify a local
partner for arranging one or more stoves-oriented bus tours for instance?

Thoughts on any of the above?

Ron
>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From larcon at sni.net Fri Dec 15 11:22:55 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Forwarding Elsen Karstad on J'Burg.
Message-ID: <v01540b04b65fe90dd2c2@[204.131.233.36]>

Stovers - The following got bounced for some reason yesterday from Elsen
(I stand corrected - but still believe most of us will find plenty of
tourist activities in the country. Note Elk's address has been changed to
<elk@wananchi.com>.

>Ronal writes:
>
>
>........ Last point is that Johannesburg is reported to be a very =
>beautiful
>and interesting city to visit (I've seen J'burg only from the airport so
>far). Any comments on this aspect? Anyone able to identify a local
>partner for arranging one or more stoves-oriented bus tours for =
>instance?.....
>
>Sorry- at the risk of offending any Jo'burgers on the list- maybe you =
>are confusing Johannesburg with Cape Town?
>
>Johannesburg was situated not for it's aesthetics but for it's gold. And =
>as the grid is well developed and per capita income many times the =
>continental average, the local 'appropriate stove technology' is =
>significantly different from it's more northerly neighbours. I'm not =
>saying that there aren't benefits to be gained from investigating South =
>African stoves technology, but be aware that it won't be representative =
>of overall 'African' standards- few South African things are.
>
>elk
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>elk@net2000ke.com
>elk@wananchi.com
>Elsen L. Karstad, Nairobi Kenya

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Dec 15 11:32:21 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Forwarding Elsen Karstad on chardust
Message-ID: <v01540b05b65fea2d1679@[204.131.233.36]>

Stovers:
The following also in yesterday from Elsen. The problem has been
fixed and I won't need to be in the loop again as Elsen is back as an
official list member.

Elsen:
Congratulations on getting the chardust project under construction.
I'll look up the site. Thanks also to your brother.

When do you expect to operate for the first time? Any major
observations/surprises yet about the process?

Can you tell us a bit more about the Village Power conference? How
much did you hear the words "stoves" and "charcoal"?

Ron

>Subject: Chardust website.
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:24:30 +0300

>It's still under construction, but my brother, an internet teacher based
>in Edmonton Canada, has installed the slideshow that accompanied my
>speech at the Village Power 2000 conference in Washington DC earlier
>this month.
>
>It's 10 pictures and graphics and pretty well sums up what we've been up
>to here in Nairobi- I think you'll find it interesting.
>
>it's at: http://www.chardust.com/index.html
>
>Comments, questions and criticisms solicited!
>
>elk
>-----------------------------------------------
>elk@net2000ke.com
>elk@wananchi.com
>Elsen L. Karstad, Nairobi Kenya
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sun Dec 17 10:01:15 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Elsen Karstad on chardust
Message-ID: <f2.5b1f9f2.276e2cda@cs.com>

Stovers and Kohlenbrenners (charcoal makers):

(I know a Kevin Kohlenbrenner, president of Sterling Technologies Corp., so
that's how I learned the word).

The Swedish name for charcoal dust is "DUFF" in case you want to keep word
proliferation to a minimum.

DUFF is a MAJOR problem in all charcoal making operations. Is there a verb
"to duff", meaning to produce fine dust from charcoal lumps? With softwoods,
duff can be 50% of the output. The dust is also a problem, since it can
become airborne while hot and start fires. Ugh.

Tom Reed BEF

In a message dated 12/15/00 9:32:08 AM Mountain Standard Time, larcon@sni.net
writes:

<<
Stovers:
The following also in yesterday from Elsen. The problem has been
fixed and I won't need to be in the loop again as Elsen is back as an
official list member.

Elsen:
Congratulations on getting the chardust project under construction.
I'll look up the site. Thanks also to your brother.

When do you expect to operate for the first time? Any major
observations/surprises yet about the process?

Can you tell us a bit more about the Village Power conference? How
much did you hear the words "stoves" and "charcoal"?

Ron

>Subject: Chardust website. >>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From otto at sover.net Sun Dec 17 23:24:05 2000
From: otto at sover.net (Jon & Carrol Otto)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Elsen Karstad on chardust
Message-ID: <019a01c06897$181120e0$0e74c6d1@f1v9q1>

Stovers,

Re charcoal fines: I suppose that this Swedish technical terms makes
DUFFers of all of us working (or aspiring to work) on this fuel? Not yet,
pal.

Re South Africa's domestic energy situation: RSA has its own particular
combination of fuels and particular economics of their uses. These unique
circumstances set it apart from much of the rest of the continent (which
itself is far from uniform, of course, but which contains broad sub-regional
similarities far different from RSA). For example, few other countries have
coal as a household energy source to the extent found in some areas of RSA.
Nor do they have RSA's level of remittances and individual grants that
afford widespread rural use of 'modern' fuels. That said, there's always
something to be learned ... and stovers did not pick the site of this next
important conference; so Jo'burg it is.

Miscellaneous observation: I had the chance last week to inspect a
fascinating program in western Kenya sponsored by the International Center
of Research on Agroforestry (ICRAF) in which farmers were doubling up
harvests of maize and fast-growing tree species, annually harvesting enough
woody biomass on about one acre to supply a household with its cooking fuel,
while increasing maize yields (not to mention other benefits on local and
planetary levels). For deforestation doomsayers such as I, this is a truly
exciting prospect. How to scale up or disseminate its application, and the
development of modifications to work this system in lower rainfall areas,
are great challenges; still, I strongly believe ICRAF is onto something big.

Me? I heat a drafty 150-year old farmhouse with three woodburning
applicances using 12 cord of firewood annually, here in the US northcountry.

A warn holiday season to ALL,

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Reedtb2@cs.com <Reedtb2@cs.com>
To: larcon@sni.net <larcon@sni.net>; stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>;
antal@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu <antal@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu>
Date: Sunday, December 17, 2000 9:55 AM
Subject: Elsen Karstad on chardust

>Stovers and Kohlenbrenners (charcoal makers):
>
>(I know a Kevin Kohlenbrenner, president of Sterling Technologies Corp., so
>that's how I learned the word).
>
>The Swedish name for charcoal dust is "DUFF" in case you want to keep word
>proliferation to a minimum.
>
>DUFF is a MAJOR problem in all charcoal making operations. Is there a verb
>"to duff", meaning to produce fine dust from charcoal lumps? With
softwoods,
>duff can be 50% of the output. The dust is also a problem, since it can
>become airborne while hot and start fires. Ugh.
>
>Tom Reed BEF
>
>In a message dated 12/15/00 9:32:08 AM Mountain Standard Time,
larcon@sni.net
>writes:
>
><<
> Stovers:
> The following also in yesterday from Elsen. The problem has been
> fixed and I won't need to be in the loop again as Elsen is back as an
> official list member.
>
> Elsen:
> Congratulations on getting the chardust project under
construction.
> I'll look up the site. Thanks also to your brother.
>
> When do you expect to operate for the first time? Any major
> observations/surprises yet about the process?
>
> Can you tell us a bit more about the Village Power conference?
How
> much did you hear the words "stoves" and "charcoal"?
>
> Ron
>
>
> >Subject: Chardust website. >>
>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From elk at wananchi.com Mon Dec 18 13:49:03 2000
From: elk at wananchi.com (elk)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: VP2000 conference.
In-Reply-To: <v01540b05b65fea2d1679@[204.131.233.36]>
Message-ID: <003001c06921$226a4140$8640083e@pentium333>

Ronal asks;

> Can you tell us a bit more about the Village Power conference?
> How much did you hear the words "stoves" and "charcoal"?

This conference took place at the World Bank headquarters in Washington DC
early this month, sponsored by the World Bank, UNDP, USAID, the National
Renewable Energy Laboratory and Winrock International. Looking around the
distinguished list of participants I got the impression I had been invited
to speak as a 'mascot'- a sort of charcoal version of Crocodile Dundee. I
suppose somebody has to represent the roots....... they do support the whole
tree after all.....

Well, sitting in a chair all day is about my least-enjoyed past-times, so
I'm not a good conference attendee, but I did forget about my numb bum
during many of the presentations. I didn't attend every day- missed the
introductory and closing sessions on Monday and Thursday- so I missed
Rogerio
Miranda's talk on 'Gender Concerns and Household Energy in Central
America'.... but I did get to meet the famous Stover Rogerio! I saw photos
of his work in Central America too- can I ask you to post some more of these
on the Web, Rogerio? We would all benefit from that.

Much of the conference was on grid extension and telecommunications- which I
am not familiar with, but I found the solar and wind-power presentations
fascinating. Dr. Stassen of BTG outlined his unique agglomeration methods
for charcoal powder, which certainly has some advantages over my own
low-pressure extrusion.

My talk entitled 'Is Briquetting The Answer?' was well received- or so I
thought through a haze of stage fright.... There were some good questions
raised during the discussion afterward. It is hard to squeeze five years of
work into a 15 minute talk though.

In the second of his speeches, Dr. Stassen showed us where Gasification has
it's weak and strong commercial points in the current technical
configurations. After the conference, I asked him about gasification from
charcoal... he said (if my memory serves me right) that a 40 Kw diesel
generator would use only 20 kg of charcoal per hour, and when gasifying
charcoal the engine does not require the extensive (expensive) gas
'scrubbing' equipment that is required when uncarbonised biomass is used. 20
kg per hour.

Can anyone suggest how to gasify charcoal powder? I've got about 40 year's
worth (15 million Kw/hrs) right here in Nairobi.

A real success story on Village-Driven Forest Management from Mali was
presented by Isamail Toure which raised my optimism for the future of
managed forests in Kenya.... it CAN be done!

I can't do justice to a review here- there were 600 attendees, and we were
told that the conference had to be closed due to lack of space. The previous
VP200 had only 400-odd people present, so it looks like this bi-annual
meeting of the minds is becoming a true focal point for those interested in
and working within issues falling within a wide interpretation of 'Village
Power'.

elk

-----------------------------------------------------
Elsen L.Karstad, Nairobi Kenya
http://www.chardust.com/
elk@wananchi.com

From larcon at sni.net Mon Dec 18 18:41:53 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Elsen Karstad on chardust
Message-ID: <v01540b00b664371cf0a9@[204.131.233.31]>

Stovers (addressing this mainly to AD Karve, Ray Wijewardene, and Jon):

Jon Otto said in part:

<snip>

>Miscellaneous observation: I had the chance last week to inspect a
>fascinating program in western Kenya sponsored by the International Center
>of Research on Agroforestry (ICRAF) in which farmers were doubling up
>harvests of maize and fast-growing tree species, annually harvesting enough
>woody biomass on about one acre to supply a household with its cooking fuel,
>while increasing maize yields (not to mention other benefits on local and
>planetary levels). For deforestation doomsayers such as I, this is a truly
>exciting prospect. How to scale up or disseminate its application, and the
>development of modifications to work this system in lower rainfall areas,
>are great challenges; still, I strongly believe ICRAF is onto something big.

<snip>

AD - Could you please comment on the above from your background as a botanist?

I am thinking of your demonstration during the field trip to
Phaltan - in which you were demonstrating the importance of windbreaks in
plant growth. Should that be the explanation for the importance of
interspaced trees to improve the corn productivity?

Could it be moisture conservation from shading?

Is this phenomenon already well written up in botany circles - and
if so it would seem to have huge importance (as Jon has suggested) for the
future of a ready source of wood for households (as Ray Wijewardene from
Sri Lanka was emphasizing for us also in the Pune meeting).

Anything you can add to encourage this practice worldwide
(essentially free firewood nearby). would be well received by our list at
this time.

When you showed Alex and I your bamboo grove outside Phaltan, there
was also some intercropping that you discussed nearby. Any similarlity?
Any data on increased income from certain tree species? Please remind us
what that situation was.

Ray - were you aware of this nice merging of interests? Have you also
seen literature of increased crop yield as being a major incentive for tree
planting?

Jon - Thanks for this interesting correspondence. You didn't mention
whether the trees were possibly being used for your interest in inedible
seed oils (for light and cooking purposes). Was that going on here or just
a later future possibility? Any new news on the seed oil front?
Anything more you can supply on tree species or details of
increased yields etc would be helpful.

Stovers - More background on the above three individuals:

AD. I had many more opportunities to talk with AD than most of the
conference delegates - it is clear that he has a huge knowledge of exactly
this topic - why plants behave and propagate in particular ways. This
question is being addressed to one of the world's experts on such topics.

Ray Wijewardene was the only person at the Stoves conference making
an impassioned plea for tree planting - with emphasis on coppicing or a
sustained yield. I don't know lots about Ray, but he is a retired business
man with many Sri Lankan honors - and a successful career throughout the
world in manufacturing and selling small hand steered two-wheel tractors.

Similarly, I have visited Jon and his wife Carrol in New York and
can attest that they are dedicated to rural third world development, with a
great deal of successful consulting going on in fields such as this he is
describing in Kenya. If Jon suggests the result is new, it probably is.
He almost made it to Pune and I'm sorry they were not there - but clearly
he has a good excuse if he was in Kenya shortly after.

Stovers - anyone else on this topic?

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From jovick at island.net Mon Dec 18 23:06:02 2000
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Info Wanted
Message-ID: <000e01c06956$634a6de0$6fb8fea9@computer>

December 18, 2000

Dear Ron & Stoves

Can someone help with the following. I need to find
out, the difference in heat value between Natural Gas &
Charcoal.

The difference between Gigajoules and BTU,s If a
Gigajoules has 1 million BTU,s How much charcoal is needed to get the
same.

Is there a formula to work from.
Thanks in advance.
John Flottvik

From jovick at island.net Tue Dec 19 08:27:02 2000
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Clarify info wanted
Message-ID: <000a01c069a4$bf2993e0$6fb8fea9@computer>

December 19, 2000

Jeff & Peter

Thanks for the quick response.

As the Natural Gas prices are going through the
roof, a lot of commercial businesses such as greenhouse operators &

specifically a Chemical Lime plant are searching
for alternatives. The Lime plant uses 1400 Gigajoules per kiln per day, times
two kilns.
A direct question then is , how much charcoal will
they need per day to get the same heat.

One small greenhouse operator use 500 per day,
and they pay $ 7 Canadian per gigajoule. They all indicate they will
switch, if it,s feasible. So we are trying to figure out the cost
difference between the two fuels.

One 35 acre hothouse spent over a million bucks on
heat this year, and the price of N.G is going up by 30 % in
January.

Again I thank you in
advance
John Flottvik

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Dec 19 09:45:58 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <a9.f361dfe.2770cc37@cs.com>

Dear Bioenergy/gasification/stovers:

(I am including stovers on this list, since in my opinion the only clean
stove is one that gasifies first.)

It has been just about a year since the Biomass Energy Foundation (BEF) and
the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) published our book "Survey of
Biomass Gasification - 2000". I'm happy to say that the demand has far
outstripped our expectations - probably over 1000 books sold in 2000, which
is a lot for technical books. We have been surprised that so many requests
came in from the Netherlands and generally overseas, probably over half.
(There is still lots of cheap gasoline in the US compared to the rest of the
world and we're using it as fast as we can. We'll pay a LOT more attention
then.)

I have decided to bring out a New Edition, "Survey of Biomass Gasification -
2001". I have a stack of minor corrections and some additions for the
database. I reprint the books in lots of 50 every few months. It will be a
simple matter for me to bring the Chapter 2 data base up to date and insert a
new Chapter 2. For those of you who have the first edition (probably will be
a collectors treasure), you can go to my website www.woodgas.com and download
the new database early next year.

Before I go to press, I would like to invite those of you already in the
database to check the facts and make whatever corrections are necessary. If
you are NOT in the database, and think you should be, please fill in the
enclosed questionnaire and send back Eposthaste - unless you want to wait for
a possible 3rd edition, "... - 2002".

I'd like to work on this before the New Year, SO please have your additions
and corrections in by DEC. 27.

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF PRESS

P.S. I have also attached our current book list.

QUESTIONNAIRE:

ORGANIZATION: (Official name of your organization)

CATEGORY: (Large gasifier systems >10MWe, (Chapter 3); Small scale
gasifiers (Chapter 4); research and support, (Chapter 5); Manufacturers and
Consultants.)

PURPOSE AND DESCRIPTION: (Purpose of gasifier or business)

COUNTRY:

CONTACT: (Name of principal contact)

PHONE/FAX: (Phone No.; Fax in that order)

E-MAIL:

WEBPAGE: (If applicable)

ADDRESS: (Mailing address)

STATUS: (Just thinking, building, operating or in business a long time....)

FUELS: (Fuels tried or planned. People who claim "all fuels" are considered
naive in the art of gasification)

SIZES: (Sizes built or offered)

YEARS: (Years in business)

UNITS BUILT: (Number of units actually built or under construction)

COST: (Typical cost/kWth or kWe of system, preferably in 2001 dollars for
comparison)

COMMENTS: (Brag a little..)

~~~~~~~~

~~~~~
BOOKS FROM THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION PRESS
Classic Books on Biomass and Alternate Energy
Book Descriptions - Order Blank Follows

NEW OR REVISED:

NEW: A SURVEY OF BIOMASS GASIFICATION 2000: T. Reed and S. Gaur have
surveyed the biomass gasification scene for the National Renewable Energy
Laboratory and the Biomass Energy Foundation. 180 pages of large gasifiers
systems, small gasifiers and gasifier research institutions with descriptions
of the major types of gasifiers and a list of most world gasifiers. ISBN
1-890607-13-4 180 pp $25

NEW: BIOMASS GASIFIER "TARS": THEIR NATURE, FORMATION, AND CONVERSION: T.
Milne, N. Abatzoglou, & R. J. Evans. "Tars" are the Achilles Heel of
gasification. This thorough work explores the chemical nature of tars, their
generation, and methods for testing and destroying them.
ISBN 1-890607-14-2 180 pp $25

NEW: EVALUATION OF GASIFICATION AND NOVEL THERMAL PROCESSES FOR THE
TREATMENT OF MUNICIPAL SOLID WASTE - W. Niessen et al. 1996 NREL report by
Camp Dresser and McKee on MSW conversion processes. ISBN 1-890607-15-0
198 pp $25

NEW: FROM THE FRYER TO THE FUEL TANK: HOW TO MAKE CHEAP, CLEAN FUEL FROM
FREE VEGETABLE OIL: J. & K. Tickell, (1998) Resale from Greenteach
Publishing Co. J & K Tickell have done an excellent job of collecting both
theory and praxis on producing Biodiesel fuel from vegetable oils,
particularly used oil. Nice instructions for kitchen or large scale. ISBN
0-9664616-0-6 90 pp $25

NEW/OLD: DENSIFIED BIOMASS: A NEW FORM OF SOLID FUEL: Tom Reed and Becky
Bryant, A "State of the Art evaluation of densified biomass fuels" with
documentation of processes, energy balance, economics and applications.
First published in 1978, & still good. New appendix on the physics of
densification. ISBN 1-890607-16-9 35 pp $12

NEW/OLD: MODERN GAS PRODUCERS: N. E. Rambush, the most complete collection
of information on the golden age of coal gasification, when every city had a
"gasworks" . Lots of food for thought on biomass gasification and why it's
different. 550 pp $30

NEW/OLD: FREE ENERGY OF BINARY COMPOUNDS: AN ATLAS OF CHARTS FOR
HIGH-TEMPERATRUE CALCULATIONS, 2nd edition, Thomas B. Reed. I published this
book with MIT Press in 1971 when I was working in high temperature materials
research. The data and charts apply to all of chemistry, so you can
calculate the thermodynamics of almost any reaction., MIT Press, 1971. My
magnum opus! 90 pp $20
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CLASSICS

BIOMASS DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS HANDBOOK: T. Reed and A. Das,
(SERI-1988) Over a million wood gasifiers were used to power cars and trucks
during World War II. Yet, after over two decades of interest, there are only
a few companies manufacturing gasifier systems. The authors have spent more
than 20 years working with various gasifier systems, In this book they
discuss ALL the factors that must be correct to have a successful "gasifier
power system." Our most popular book, the "new Testament" of gasification
ISBN 1-890607-00-2 140 pp $25

GENGAS: THE SWEDISH CLASSIC ON WOOD FUELED VEHICLES: English translation,
(SERI-1979) T.Reed, D. Jantzen and A. Das, with index. This is the "Old
Testament" of gasification, written by the people involved in successfully
converting 90% of transportation of WW II Sweden to wood gasifiers.
ISBN 1-890607-01-0 340 pp. $30

SMALL SCALE GAS PRODUCER-ENGINE SYSTEMS: A. Kaupp and J. Goss. (Veiweg,1984)
Updates GENGAS and contains critical engineering data indispensable for the
serious gasifier projects. Ali Kaupp is thorough and knowledgeable and still
active in the field! ISBN 1-890607-06-1 278 pp $30

PRODUCER-GAS: ANOTHER FUEL FOR MOTOR TRANSPORT: Ed. Noel Vietmeyer (The U.S.
National Academy of Sciences-1985) A seeing-is-believing primer with
historical and modern pictures of gasifiers. An outstanding text for any
introductory program. ISBN 1-890607-02-6 80 pp $10

FUNDAMENTAL STUDY AND SCALEUP OF THE AIR-OXYGEN STRATIFIED DOWNDRAFT
GASIFIER: T. Reed, M. Graboski and B. Levie (SERI 1988). In 1980 the Solar
Energy Research Institute initiated a program to develop an oxygen gasifier
to make methanol from biomass. A novel air/oxygen low tar gasifier was
designed and studied for five years at SERI at 1 ton/d and for 4 years at
Syn-Gas Inc. in a 25 ton/day gasifier. This book describes the theory and
operation of the two gasifiers in detail and also discusses the principles
and application of gasification as learned over eight years by the
author-gasifier team.
ISBN 1-890607-03-7 290 pp $30

CONTAMINANT TESTING FOR GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS: A. Das (TIPI 1989). Test
that gas for tar! Long engine life and reliable operation requires a gas
with less than 30 mg of tar and particulates per cubic meter (30 ppm). The
simplified test methods described here are adapted from standard ASTM and EPA
test procedures for sampling and analyzing char, tar and ash in the gas.
Suitable for raw and cleaned gas. New edition & figures, 1999. ISBN
1-890607-04-5 32 pp $10

TREE CROPS FOR ENERGY CO-PRODUCTION ON FARMS: Tom Milne (SERI 1980)
Evaluation of the energy potential to grow trees for energy. ISBN
1-890607-05-3 260 pp $30

WOOD GAS GENERATORS FOR VEHICLES: Nils Nygards (1973). Translation of recent
results of Swedish Agricultural Testing Institute, a companion to GENGAS.
ISBN 1-890607-08-8 50 pp. $4

CONSTRUCTION OF A SIMPLIFIED WOOD GAS GENERATOR: H. LaFontaine (1989) - Over
25 drawings and photographs on building a stratified downdraft gasifier for
fueling IC engines in a Petroleum Emergency (FEMA RR28). ISBN 1-890607-11-8
68 pp $15

BIOMASS TO METHANOL SPECIALISTS' WORKSHOP: Ed. T. Reed and M. Graboski, 1982.
Expert articles on conversion of biomass to methanol. ISBN 1-890607-10-X
331 pp $30

THE PEGASUS UNIT: THE LOST ART OF DRIVING WITHOUT GASOLINE: N. Skov and M.
Papworth, (1974). Pegasus = Petroleum/Gasoline Substitute Systems.
Description and beautiful detailed drawings of various gasifiers and systems
from World War II. ISBN 1-890607-09-6 80 pp $20

GASIFICATION OF RICE HULLS: THEORY AND PRAXIS: A. Kaupp. (Veiweg, 1984) Ali's
thesis applies gasification to rice hulls, since rice hulls are potentially a
major energy source - yet have unique problems in gasification. ISBN
1-890607-07-X 303 pp $30

TREES: by Jean Giono, 1953. While we strongly support using biomass for
energy, we are also very concerned about forest destruction. This delightful
story says more than any sermon on the benefits and methods of
reforestation. ISBN 1-89060712-6 8 pp $1
~~~~~~
The Biomass Energy Foundation operates a small press, archiving and printing
books useful in the field of biomass and the environment. We are able to
print, and attractively bind, out -of-print books in this field at reasonable
prices (i.e. far less than NTIS). We also have a large library of books in
the field of biomass collected by Tom Reed during his years at SERI/NREL and
at CSM.

COPY THIS ORDER BLANK - Biomass Energy Books
(Nicknames in Bold, see book descriptions, p. 1 and 2)

1. A SURVEY OF BIOMASS GASIFICATION 2000: $25

2. BIOMASS DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS HANDBOOK: $25

3. CONTAMINANT TESTING FOR GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS: $10

4. BIOMASS GASIFIER "TARS": THEIR NATURE, FORMATION, AND CONVERSION: $25

5. GENGAS: THE SWEDISH CLASSIC ON WOOD FUELED VEHICLES: $30

6. SMALL SCALE GAS PRODUCER ENGINE SYSTEMS: $30

7. PRODUCER-GAS: ANOTHER FUEL FOR MOTOR TRANSPORT: $10

8. FUNDAMENTAL STUDY AND SCALEUP OF THE AIR-OXYGEN STRATIFIED
DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER: $30

9. EVALUATION OF GASIFICATION AND NOVEL THERMAL PROCESSES
FOR THE TREATMENT OF MUNICIPAL SOLID WASTE - MSW $25

10. DENSIFIED BIOMASS: A NEW FORM OF SOLID FUEL: $12

11. WOOD GAS GENERATORS FOR VEHICLES: $4

12. CONSTRUCTION OF A SIMPLIFIED WOOD GAS GENERATOR: $15

13. BIOMASS TO METHANOL SPECIALISTS' WORKSHOP: $30

14. THE PEGASUS UNIT: THE LOST ART OF DRIVING WITHOUT GASOLINE: $20

15. GASIFICATION OF RICE HULLS: THEORY AND PRAXIS: $30

16. TREES: $1

17. TREE CROPS FOR ENERGY CO-PRODUCTION ON FARMS: $30

18. FROM THE FRYER TO THE FUEL TANK: HOW TO MAKE CHEAP,
CLEAN FUEL FROM FREE VEGETABLE OIL: $25

19. MODERN GAS PRODUCERS by N. E. Rambush (1923) $30

20. FREE ENERGY OF BINARY COMPOUNDS $20

TOTAL FOR BOOKS ___________
ORDER BLANK
-10% if 3 or more books ordered or to booksellers ______+ $3 handling + (US
and Canada
$1.50 (bookrate, or request air, $3) or (other foreign, $9/large book- air
only) TOTAL___________

E-mail order to reedtb2@CS.com or Mail orders to The Biomass Energy
Foundation Press, 1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401; FAX 303-278 0560; call
303 278 0558.
We'll send invoice with books. Pay by postal order or check on US Banks (no
foreign checks - can cost $25 to clear), or Electronic payment to Wells Fargo
Bank, Golden, CO 80401, Bank No. 102 0000 76, Account 300 800 2911.

NAME:

SHIPPING ADDRESS:
THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION

The Biomass Energy Foundation was founded in 1984 by Dr. Harry LaFontaine as
a 501(c) 3, not for profit organization to do research and educational tasks
in the field of biomass, the environment and related areas. With Harry's
death in April, 1994, the work of the foundation has been taken over by the
new president, Dr. Thomas B. Reed

Tom Reed has a wide interest and experience in the energy and environmental
areas and has specialized in biomass thermal conversion, (gasification,
pyrolysis and combustion) since the first energy crisis in 1973. Tom is
currently working with the Community Power Corporation to develop Small
Modular BIomass Power Systems and clean wood-gas cooking stoves for
deployment in developing countries. Tom won an R&D-100 award (best invention
of the year) for the high pressure oxygen gasifier in 1982, and he thinks
we'll need that technology soon, as the oil runs dry.

Tom is also currently working on the new alternative diesel fuel,
"biodiesel", especially from waste cooking oils and Sea Sweep, an oil
absorbent made from wood waste. Sea Sweep won a "R&D 100" award for one of
the 100 best inventions of 1993. Dr. Reed continues his research in other
fields of biomass and gives lectures in these fields. He is available for
consulting in his fields of interest.

LINKS

To find out more about us, visit our websites at www.woodgas.com and www.
webpan.com/bef. (We hope to update the former ASAP, butâ€¦.)

To find out more about biomass, visit the Center for Renewable Energy and
Sustainable Technology's site at www.crest.org. They maintain discussion
groups on gasification, stoves, biomass energy etc. and archives of all
letters that have ever been sent. I am webmaster at the GASIFICATION site.
They also maintain links to the other important biomass energy sites.

THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION PRESS
Classic books on Gasification, Pyrolysis and Combustion of Wood

From heat-win at cwcom.net Tue Dec 19 10:46:45 2000
From: heat-win at cwcom.net (Thomas J Stubbing)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Clarify info wanted
In-Reply-To: <000a01c069a4$bf2993e0$6fb8fea9@computer>
Message-ID: <3A3F8056.DE1EA967@cwcom.net>

Dear All,
In connection with greenhouses you will find much interesting information
re. charcoal and torrefied wood at <http://www.techtp.com>.
If for example tomatoes are being grown, the vines left over can be
torrefied and used to fuel the greenhouse heating. If there aren't
enough, then other renewable fuels such as wood pellets can be used.
Regarding the lime kilns, have a look at <http://www.stramproy.nl>,
in particular the RofireTM link you will find there. Cement kilns
are now being heated using RofireTM pellets made from the un-reusable fibres,
plastic, etc, left over from the recycling of paper.
Whatever else you do to counter the natural gas and oil price crises,
please go out and plant more trees!
Regards,
Thomas J Stubbing
<http://www.dryers-airless.mcmail.com>
John Flottvik wrote:

December
19, 2000 Jeff &
Peter Thanks for the quick
response. As the Natural
Gas prices are going through the roof, a lot of commercial businesses such
as greenhouse operators &specifically a Chemical Lime plant are searching
for alternatives. The Lime plant uses 1400 Gigajoules per kiln per day,
times two kilns.A direct question then is , how much charcoal will they
need per day to get the same heat. One
small greenhouse operator use 500 per day, and they pay $ 7 Canadian per
gigajoule. They all indicate they will switch, if it,s feasible. So we
are trying to figure out the cost difference between the two fuels.One
35 acre hothouse spent over a million bucks on heat this year, and the
price of N.G is going up by 30 % in January.Again I thank you in advance
John Flottvik

From davidbeedie at bioenergy-devices.co.uk Tue Dec 19 11:08:15 2000
From: davidbeedie at bioenergy-devices.co.uk (David Beedie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: effect of wood moisture content on pollutant emissions from residential wood combustion
Message-ID: <003601c069d3$465deb30$938701d4@delllaptop1>

I'm stuck for some data. Searching
for data on the effect of wood moisture content on pollutant emissions from
residential wood combustion (in UK conditions, i.e., mainly open fireplaces,
some woodstoves), I have found much that says what I want to prove - that
firewood must be well seasoned, but unfortunately for me I need the numeric data
to prove the case. It would really help me out if anyone could
provide any such data for me, or just give me any good leads for further
searching.Thanks,
David Beedie

From kchishol at fox.nstn.ca Tue Dec 19 11:34:09 2000
From: kchishol at fox.nstn.ca (Kevin Chisholm)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: effect of wood moisture content on pollutant emissions from residential wood combustion
In-Reply-To: <003601c069d3$465deb30$938701d4@delllaptop1>
Message-ID: <NEBBLHHHOLFOEGCILKHEGEPHCCAA.kchishol@fox.nstn.ca>

Dear
David
<SPAN
class=780071616-19122000>
While
moisture level is a very important contributor to the level of pollutants
from a wood fire, also very important is the type of stove used to burn the wood
in the first place. Some stoves on dry wood could emit more pollution than other
stoves on relatively wet wood.
<SPAN
class=780071616-19122000>
When
you are collecting pollution data, I would therefore suggest that you also
correlate the specific data with the type of stove system on which the tests
were run. I would guess that with this approach, it will be much easier for you
to interpert the data you find.
<SPAN
class=780071616-19122000>
<SPAN
class=780071616-19122000>Kindest regards,
<SPAN
class=780071616-19122000>
Kevin
Chisholm
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----From: owner-stoves@crest.org
[mailto:owner-stoves@crest.org]On Behalf Of David
BeedieSent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 11:47 AMTo:
stoves@crest.orgSubject: effect of wood moisture content on
pollutant emissions from residential wood combustion
I'm stuck for some data. Searching
for data on the effect of wood moisture content on pollutant emissions from
residential wood combustion (in UK conditions, i.e., mainly open fireplaces,
some woodstoves), I have found much that says what I want to prove - that
firewood must be well seasoned, but unfortunately for me I need the numeric
data to prove the case. It would really help me out if anyone could
provide any such data for me, or just give me any good leads for further
searching.Thanks,
David Beedie

From elk at wananchi.com Wed Dec 20 00:38:50 2000
From: elk at wananchi.com (elk)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: The Rumeruti Charcoalers
Message-ID: <003f01c06a45$00fc5b40$aa40083e@pentium333>

This just in, and of interest.

I am a member of the Kenya Forests Working Group's
subcommittee on charcoal. We have recently been looking at a forest in the Kenya
Highlands that has been nearly wiped out by uncontrolled charcoal
manufacture.

One approach to increased efficiency we are considering is the
salvage and briquetting of fines traditionally left behind in the forest. My
original manual briquetter set up in a central location (the nearest market?)
might be suitable.

Here is a preliminary report on a meeting with the charcoalers
that took place recently- a good glimpse of the 'grass roots' here in Kenya.
(one USD$ is worth 80 Kenya Shillings).

elk

<FONT
size=2>-----------------------------------------------------

Dear Elk,The charcoal burners meeting went on quite
well on 16th Dec. We are atthe moment doing the report. We were not able to
get a lot ofinformation you had indicated in your email, but there is a Mr.
Kamawiraon the ground who will get what we were unable to get and forward
thesame to us. I gave him a copy of your email note.One of the
outcome of the meeting was formation of a self help groupwhose members are
the charcoal burners themselves.Their activities arenot yet well defined but
include to look into ways of promoting conservation of Rumuruti forestto
engage in income generating activities such as collecting andutilising
charcoal dust.We gathered that the price of charcoal at the site
(forest) is Kshs 70(Kshs 20 being a bribe to forest guards), price of
charcoal at Nyahururutown (25 km distant) is Kshs 180, 5 trees of a canopy
diameter of 12 feet are used to produce10 charcoal bags in one charcoal
kiln, 4 days are used to prepare thekiln and the burning takes for 4
days other days, each charcoal kilnproduce 2 bags of charcoal
dust.Regards;
Michael Gachanja
<FONT
size=2>-----------------------------------------------------Elsen
L.Karstad, Nairobi Kenya<A
href="http://www.chardust.com/">http://www.chardust.com/<A
href="mailto:elk@wananchi.com">elk@wananchi.com

From english at adan.kingston.net Wed Dec 20 07:46:07 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: effect of wood moisture content on pollutant emissions from
In-Reply-To: <003601c069d3$465deb30$938701d4@delllaptop1>
Message-ID: <200012201238.HAA30214@adan.kingston.net>

Hi David,
Check the Omni site
http://www.omni-test.com/
I am not sure if they have it their, but they can be quite helpful.

It is an interesting question. Early work on air tight stoves, late
1970's by Jay Shelton, Solid Fuels Encyclopedia, found that dry wood,
dryer than normal seasoned wood I think (no numbers in my head)
actually had higher emissions because the wood pyrolysed faster,
resulting in insufficient air, or fuel rich conditions. Even if
there were enough air this would have pushed flames up into the
cooler quenching regions of the stove or stove pipe.

Although this was described in the old airtight stoves, this fuel
rich condition can of course dramatically increase emissions from any
combustion device.

Let us know if you find the data.

Alex

> I'm stuck for some data. Searching for data on the effect of wood moisture content on pollutant emissions from residential wood combustion (in UK conditions, i.e., mainly open fireplaces, some woods>
> Thanks,
> David Beedie
>
>
>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
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Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 20 08:39:15 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: CO again...
Message-ID: <c3.c442dd0.27720e10@cs.com>

Dear Sam and all:

The combustion products of producer gas depend primarily on how well you burn
it, not on the gas itself. If you don't get complete combustion, you will
have some CO, as you will with methane or any other gas. If you do get
complete combustion (not too much excess air) CO will be VERY low.

As to particulates, they are supposed to be removed before you call your
product "producer gas".
~~~~
Yes CO is dangerous indoors. Two lungsfull of CO will put you under the sod,
and it was very handy for suicides. Nowadays if you stick your head in the
(natural) gas oven you are likely to blow up the house.

However, most towns over 10,000 used producer gas until 1940, so we could
learn to live with it again. Personally, I have been building gasifiers for
25 years and never had a headache - and I'm not ALL that cautious. My CO
meter goes off occasionally, but you can breathe 50 ppm CO all day. Smokers
enjoy 100-300 ppm. So let's not get TOO bent out of shape by CO - and let's
all be VERY careful.

Fortunately, CO meters have become very cheap - I believe Sears has one for
under $10. I hope that very soon every smoke detector will include a CO
alarm.

Yours truly, TOM REED

In a message dated 12/19/00 6:20:56 AM Mountain Standard Time,
samuel.martin@epfl.ch writes:

<< Dear all,

does anybody have some data about the polluant emissions of the combustion
of
producer gas in a burner ? Espacially particules and CO which are
particularly
dangerous if you burn gas in a closed area (in a house to cook for example).

Thanks

Merry Christmas

Samuel Martin
>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Dec 20 08:39:18 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Elsen Karstad on chardust
Message-ID: <f.d7d25ba.27720e16@cs.com>

Dear all:

The following message contained nothing whatever on chardust. We
occasionally get careless about filing in a legitimate SUBJECT, but for those
of us buried in Email to the Eballs, it is convenient to have the Subject
match the subject, particularly for filing.

Hope we can do better in the next millenium that starts next week.

Tom Reed

In a message dated 12/18/00 4:33:26 PM Mountain Standard Time, larcon@sni.net
writes:

<<
Stovers (addressing this mainly to AD Karve, Ray Wijewardene, and Jon):

Jon Otto said in part:

<snip>

>Miscellaneous observation: I had the chance last week to inspect a
>fascinating program in western Kenya sponsored by the International Center
>of Research on Agroforestry (ICRAF) in which farmers were doubling up
>harvests of maize and fast-growing tree species, annually harvesting enough
>woody biomass on about one acre to supply a household with its cooking fuel,
>while increasing maize yields (not to mention other benefits on local and
>planetary levels). For deforestation doomsayers such as I, this is a truly
>exciting prospect. How to scale up or disseminate its application, and the
>development of modifications to work this system in lower rainfall areas,
>are great challenges; still, I strongly believe ICRAF is onto something big.

<snip>

AD - Could you please comment on the above from your background as a
botanist?

I am thinking of your demonstration during the field trip to
Phaltan - in which you were demonstrating the importance of windbreaks in
plant growth. Should that be the explanation for the importance of
interspaced trees to improve the corn productivity?

Could it be moisture conservation from shading?

Is this phenomenon already well written up in botany circles - and
if so it would seem to have huge importance (as Jon has suggested) for the
future of a ready source of wood for households (as Ray Wijewardene from
Sri Lanka was emphasizing for us also in the Pune meeting).

Anything you can add to encourage this practice worldwide
(essentially free firewood nearby). would be well received by our list at
this time.

When you showed Alex and I your bamboo grove outside Phaltan, there
was also some intercropping that you discussed nearby. Any similarlity?
Any data on increased income from certain tree species? Please remind us
what that situation was.

Ray - were you aware of this nice merging of interests? Have you also
seen literature of increased crop yield as being a major incentive for tree
planting?

Jon - Thanks for this interesting correspondence. You didn't mention
whether the trees were possibly being used for your interest in inedible
seed oils (for light and cooking purposes). Was that going on here or just
a later future possibility? Any new news on the seed oil front?
Anything more you can supply on tree species or details of
increased yields etc would be helpful.

Stovers - More background on the above three individuals:

AD. I had many more opportunities to talk with AD than most of the
conference delegates - it is clear that he has a huge knowledge of exactly
this topic - why plants behave and propagate in particular ways. This
question is being addressed to one of the world's experts on such topics.

Ray Wijewardene was the only person at the Stoves conference making
an impassioned plea for tree planting - with emphasis on coppicing or a
sustained yield. I don't know lots about Ray, but he is a retired business
man with many Sri Lankan honors - and a successful career throughout the
world in manufacturing and selling small hand steered two-wheel tractors.

Similarly, I have visited Jon and his wife Carrol in New York and
can attest that they are dedicated to rural third world development, with a
great deal of successful consulting going on in fields such as this he is
describing in Kenya. If Jon suggests the result is new, it probably is.
He almost made it to Pune and I'm sorry they were not there - but clearly
he has a good excuse if he was in Kenya shortly after.

Stovers - anyone else on this topic?

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
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From larcon at sni.net Fri Dec 22 04:15:33 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Forwarding inquiry on "smoking" of food
Message-ID: <v01540b09b668b75597d3@[204.131.233.16]>

Stovers-

We have never had any discussion of "smoking" of food on our list.
Does anyone have some guidance for "seasesores" from Venezuela?

I am wondering if flared gases from a pyrolysis operation has any
value - it seems generally odorless. But if a portion could be flared and
another portion used for "smoking" - might this be better that "smoke" from
wood combustion. What makes for a good "smoke"? My perception is that
artificial "smoke" is mainly charcoal.

"seasesores" -
I hope someone may have some thoughts on how to help you (sent to
us all).
If you get some new ideas, please pass them on to us also.

Please let me know if you would like to join "stoves".

Best of luck in your search. You have raised an interesting topic.

Ron

>Dear sirs, we are smoking but we dont have very good results so we are
>asking you maybe you could send us
>some advises or introduction. we like to built a stove, first for
>the privat side of the fun and later we like to go into business with
>smoked meat etc.
>I would appreciate a favourable soon reply from you
>happy holidays your alfredo flash
>Venezuela
>e-mail: seasesores@cantv.net

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in Fri Dec 22 05:26:57 2000
From: adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in (A.D. Karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: growing maize between rows of fuelwood trees.
In-Reply-To: <v01540b00b664371cf0a9@[204.131.233.31]>
Message-ID: <000501c06c01$cb9cec80$8782c7cb@vsnl.net.in>

Dear Ronal,
We conducted an experiment, in which seasonal crops were raised between rows
of leguminous tree species (agro-forestry). The trees fixed atmospheric
nitrogen with the help of root nodule bacteria, and they were also supposed
to extract nutrients from deeper regions of the soil (mining with the help
of trees). We lopped the trees once every 60 days and used the mineral and
nitrogen-rich green biomass as fertilizer for the plants growing between the
rows of trees. The lopping was also meant to reduce the adverse effect of
shade cast by the trees. Shading has many advantages, e.g. the soil remains
moist for a longer period and germination of weed seeds is also checked if
the ground is shaded. But shade also reduces the rate of photosynthesis of
plants being shaded, which we wanted to avoid. On paper this idea looked
very good, but in reality the soil between the rows was soon invaded by the
roots of the trees, because here in the state of Maharashtra (India), we
have a relatively thin soil cover of just 30 to 100 cm, on top of solid
basalt bed-rock. As a result, most trees send their roots out horizontally,
because they cannot grow vertically deep into the rock. Thus in our
experiment, the tree roots sucked away the moisture as well as nutrients
from the soil between the rows, causing the
seasonal crops to grow very poorly. The poor growth of the seasonal crops
was not due to any allelopathic constituents of the tree leaves, because the
same green biomass, applied to plants growing in open fields or in pots,
resulted in enhanced yield. We now intend to repeat this experiment, with
the modification, that the area between the tree rows would be covered by
0.2 mm thick plastic film, on which a 15 to 20 cm layer of soil would be
piled up to form raised beds.
The seasonal crops would be grown on these raised beds, whereby the plastic
film would act as a barrier, isolating the seasonal crop plants from the
roots of the perennial trees. In the modified layout, the trees may act as
wind barriers and show beneficial effect on the seasonal crops.
The cost of the raised beds, laid on plastic film, would be about US$1 per
square meter. The beds would have a life of about 5 years. If one grew
vegetables on these beds, and irrigated them with drip irrigation, one can
grow three to four crops in a year, earning annually about US$2 per sq.m.
(or perhaps even more, if buyers are ready to pay a higher price for
organically grown vegetables).
As to your other query about mixed cropping near our bamboo plantation, I
do not remember having seen any such plot. In order to reach the bamboo, we
walked between two plots, one having a pure crop of wheat and the other a
pure stand of Moringa.
Wishing a happy new year to all the stovers,
A.D.Karve

From elk at wananchi.com Fri Dec 22 07:18:44 2000
From: elk at wananchi.com (elk)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:43 2004
Subject: Forwarding inquiry on "smoking" of food
In-Reply-To: <v01540b09b668b75597d3@[204.131.233.16]>
Message-ID: <003001c06c0f$edbefd40$f540083e@default>

Alfredo;

There are several ways of smoking meats. Some involve heat and others do
not. Some require salting before smoking, others do not. Some meat smoking
is basically to add flavour only- other methods are for curing and
preservation of meat.

I have a trout farm and smoke the fish in two ways- by cooking in the smoke
and by cold-smoking which produces a flavoured uncooked product like smoked
salmon. Both require salting before smoking, but the two products are very
different from each other.

You can contact me directly with more information on what type of smoke meat
product you would like to produce. Maybe I can help.

rgds;

elk
--------------------------
Elsen L. Karstad
Nairobi Kenya
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronal W. Larson" <larcon@sni.net>
To: <stoves@crest.org>
Cc: "seasesores" <seasesores@cantv.net>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 11:24 AM
Subject: Forwarding inquiry on "smoking" of food

> Stovers-
>
> We have never had any discussion of "smoking" of food on our list.
> Does anyone have some guidance for "seasesores" from Venezuela?
>
> I am wondering if flared gases from a pyrolysis operation has any
> value - it seems generally odorless. But if a portion could be flared and
> another portion used for "smoking" - might this be better that "smoke"
from
> wood combustion. What makes for a good "smoke"? My perception is that
> artificial "smoke" is mainly charcoal.
>
> "seasesores" -
> I hope someone may have some thoughts on how to help you (sent to
> us all).
> If you get some new ideas, please pass them on to us also.
>
> Please let me know if you would like to join "stoves".
>
> Best of luck in your search. You have raised an interesting topic.
>
>
> Ron
>
>
> >Dear sirs, we are smoking but we dont have very good results so we are
> >asking you maybe you could send us
> >some advises or introduction. we like to built a stove, first for
> >the privat side of the fun and later we like to go into business with
> >smoked meat etc.
> >I would appreciate a favourable soon reply from you
> >happy holidays your alfredo flash
> >Venezuela
> >e-mail: seasesores@cantv.net
>
> Ronal W. Larson, PhD
> 21547 Mountsfield Dr.
> Golden, CO 80401, USA
> 303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
> larcon@sni.net
>
>
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

From otto at sover.net Fri Dec 22 11:59:16 2000
From: otto at sover.net (Jon & Carrol Otto)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: growing maize between rows of fuelwood trees.
Message-ID: <030a01c06c33$8f1c43a0$ac50c6d1@f1v9q1>

Dear ALL,

Let me breifly clarify the maize/trees cropping experiment I reviewed in
western Kenya. The important distinctions from A.D.Karve's descriptions are:

1. The trees are planted directly in the rows of maize after the maize
itself is well established. Thus, there seems to be minimal adverse
competition for moisture or nutrients -- at least for the maize, which is
harvested when the tree seedlings are only about 40-50 days old.

2. The trees (or shrubs -- some herbacious and some not) are treated as
annual crops -- cut at ground level after about 10 months of growth at the
tie of the next maize planting. Vegetative cover year round means less
crusting of the soil and thus minimal need for tillage at planting, except
for weed removal. Obviously, tree species that don't die with stem cutting
may not be appropriate for this system.

ICRAF is also working with a number of tree/shrub species that produce no
fuel, just enhancement of soil fertility. For fuel-oriented people like me,
the fascinating element is getting a household's cooking fuel needs met from
existing fields while enhancing maize productivity.

I can put up more detailed notes on this experiment, or find the link to
ICRAF's web site if there is interest.

Happy holidays!
Jonathan Otto

-----Original Message-----
From: A.D. Karve <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in>
To: stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>
Cc: otto@sover.net <otto@sover.net>
Date: Friday, December 22, 2000 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: growing maize between rows of fuelwood trees.

>Dear Ronal,
>We conducted an experiment, in which seasonal crops were raised between
rows
>of leguminous tree species (agro-forestry). The trees fixed atmospheric
>nitrogen with the help of root nodule bacteria, and they were also supposed
>to extract nutrients from deeper regions of the soil (mining with the help
>of trees). We lopped the trees once every 60 days and used the mineral and
>nitrogen-rich green biomass as fertilizer for the plants growing between
the
>rows of trees. The lopping was also meant to reduce the adverse effect of
>shade cast by the trees. Shading has many advantages, e.g. the soil remains
>moist for a longer period and germination of weed seeds is also checked if
>the ground is shaded. But shade also reduces the rate of photosynthesis of
>plants being shaded, which we wanted to avoid. On paper this idea looked
>very good, but in reality the soil between the rows was soon invaded by the
>roots of the trees, because here in the state of Maharashtra (India), we
>have a relatively thin soil cover of just 30 to 100 cm, on top of solid
>basalt bed-rock. As a result, most trees send their roots out horizontally,
>because they cannot grow vertically deep into the rock. Thus in our
>experiment, the tree roots sucked away the moisture as well as nutrients
>from the soil between the rows, causing the
>seasonal crops to grow very poorly. The poor growth of the seasonal crops
>was not due to any allelopathic constituents of the tree leaves, because
the
>same green biomass, applied to plants growing in open fields or in pots,
>resulted in enhanced yield. We now intend to repeat this experiment, with
>the modification, that the area between the tree rows would be covered by
>0.2 mm thick plastic film, on which a 15 to 20 cm layer of soil would be
>piled up to form raised beds.
>The seasonal crops would be grown on these raised beds, whereby the plastic
>film would act as a barrier, isolating the seasonal crop plants from the
>roots of the perennial trees. In the modified layout, the trees may act as
>wind barriers and show beneficial effect on the seasonal crops.
>The cost of the raised beds, laid on plastic film, would be about US$1 per
>square meter. The beds would have a life of about 5 years. If one grew
>vegetables on these beds, and irrigated them with drip irrigation, one can
>grow three to four crops in a year, earning annually about US$2 per sq.m.
>(or perhaps even more, if buyers are ready to pay a higher price for
>organically grown vegetables).
>As to your other query about mixed cropping near our bamboo plantation, I
>do not remember having seen any such plot. In order to reach the bamboo,
we
>walked between two plots, one having a pure crop of wheat and the other a
>pure stand of Moringa.
>Wishing a happy new year to all the stovers,
>A.D.Karve
>
>
>
>

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Dec 22 17:57:20 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: New Edition: "Survey of Biomass Gasification - 2001"
Message-ID: <88.383fc9.277533c7@cs.com>

Dear Bioenergy/gasification/stovers:

(Apologies if you've seen this before - there was no subject on first
mailing. I am including stovers on this list, since in my opinion the only
clean stove is one that gasifies first.)

It has been just about a year since the Biomass Energy Foundation (BEF) and
the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) published our book "Survey of
Biomass Gasification - 2000". I'm happy to say that the demand has far
outstripped our expectations - probably over 1000 books sold in 2000, which
is a lot for technical books. We have been surprised that so many requests
came in from the Netherlands and generally overseas, probably over half.
(This probably reflects local concern over fuel supplies. There is still
lots of cheap gasoline in the US compared to the rest of the world and we're
using it as fast as we can. We'll pay a LOT more attention when next time
the cost of oil doubles.)

I have decided to bring out a New Edition, "Survey of Biomass Gasification -
2001". I have a stack of minor corrections and some additions for the
database. I reprint the books in lots of 50 every few months. It will be a
simple matter for me to bring the Chapter 2 data base up to date and insert a
new Chapter 2. For those of you who have the first edition (probably will be
a collectors treasur), you can go to my website www.woodgas.com and download
the new database early next year and stick the new pages in place of the old
ones. .

Before I go to press, I would like to invite those of you already in the
database to check the facts and make whatever corrections are necessary. If
you are NOT in the database, and think you should be, please fill in the
enclosed questionnaire and send back E-posthaste - unless you want to wait
for
a possible 3rd edition, "... - 2002".

I have (again) run out of copies of "Survey .. 2000". I'd like to work on
this before the New Year, SO please have your additions and corrections in by
DEC. 27.

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF PRESS

P.S. I have also attached our current book list.

QUESTIONNAIRE:

ORGANIZATION: (Official name of your organization)

CATEGORY: (Large gasifier systems >10MWe, (Chapter 3); Small scale
gasifiers (Chapter 4); research and support, (Chapter 5); Manufacturers and
Consultants.)

PURPOSE AND DESCRIPTION: (Purpose of gasifier or business)

COUNTRY:

CONTACT: (Name of principal contact)

PHONE/FAX: (Phone No.; Fax in that order)

E-MAIL:

WEBPAGE: (If applicable)

ADDRESS: (Mailing address)

STATUS: (Just thinking, building, operating or in business a long time....)

FUELS: (Fuels tried or planned. People who claim "all fuels" are considered
naive in the art of gasification)

SIZES: (Sizes built or offered)

YEARS: (Years in business)

UNITS BUILT: (Number of units actually built or under construction)

COST: (Typical cost/kWth or kWe of system, preferably in 2001 dollars for
comparison)

COMMENTS: (Brag a little..)

~~~~~~~~

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Dec 22 17:57:48 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: TOO DRY!?
Message-ID: <a8.ee30a0e.277533c9@cs.com>

Dear Alex and all:

In my naive youth I always presumed that since dry wood was better than wet,
REALLY dry wood would be best of all. Jay Shelton's tests dis-abused me of
that. It makes sense that if a piece of wood is very dry, the thermal
conductivity through it will make the whole piece emit pyrlolysis gases even
though only one end is heated. This then swamps the secondary (combustion)
air supply, resulting in higher emissions and reduced efficiency.

Later, with Alex, I tested our Turbo stove on wood chips with moisture
content of 0 to 30 % moisture. I was astounded to find that it worked
equally well on all levels - but that the charcoal production decreased from
25% to 5% as the wood got wetter. I presume that when the wood is wet it is
more difficult to ignite each succeeding layer and that therefore more of the
charcoal is burned to remove water. This is an auto-compensation effect that
I would not have expected.

It is generally accepted that wood for downdraft gasification must have less
than 20% moisture. However, one should question whether <5% would be good.
If one has a waste heat dryer one could easily dry to <1% MC, but it may not
be a good idea.

Onward... TOM REED

In a message dated 12/20/00 5:37:07 AM Mountain Standard Time,
english@adan.kingston.net writes:

<<
It is an interesting question. Early work on air tight stoves, late
1970's by Jay Shelton, Solid Fuels Encyclopedia, found that dry wood,
dryer than normal seasoned wood I think (no numbers in my head)
actually had higher emissions because the wood pyrolysed faster,
resulting in insufficient air, or fuel rich conditions. Even if
there were enough air this would have pushed flames up into the
cooler quenching regions of the stove or stove pipe.

Although this was described in the old airtight stoves, this fuel
rich condition can of course dramatically increase emissions from any
combustion device.

Let us know if you find the data.
>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From larcon at sni.net Fri Dec 22 22:27:18 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Forwarding query on institutional cookers
Message-ID: <v01540b00b6694bfb682d@[204.131.233.38]>

Stovers:

We have had little "stoves" dialog on large biomass-based
institutional cookers. The specifications given below look high to me.
What is the cooking application for such high temperatures?

I would be interested in knowing more about the efficiencies and
emissions release that people have found experimentally with large cooking
units. In Kenya a few years ago, Elsen and I visited some very nice
looking units. Anyone else able to jump in to provide help?

Ramesh:
1. Please let me know if you would like to join our "stoves" list.

2. We have had little on-line discussion about large biomass
cookstoves, but the subject has recently come up off-list with some members
in this hemisphere. Could you please give a little more on the desigh that
you are thinking of? Will you have temperature control on all three pots?
What capacity (liters) for each? Do you have any local models to compare
against? What stove materials are you thinking of? Is good insulation
available to you?

3. Some of us on the list were recently in Pune and would have
benefited from your experience on briquetting. Look in our web site
archives for contacts in India (especially two Dr. Karves). Could you
expand a bit more on this briquetting experience? Are you using any
binders? Any biomass materials that you cannot use? Who are buying
briquettes? What price for your machines and what price are briquettes
being sold for (rupees and/or dollars per kg)?

4. Some of us on this list have been looking for applications
where "waste" heat from charcoal-making could be productively used. This
sounds like one such. Might there be a local market for charcoal?

5. We welcome your query - but it sounds like you have much
experience already. Let's hope you receive some replies.

Ron

>From: "Ess Aar Energies" <nibhoria@id.eth.net>
>To: <stoves@crest.org>
>Cc: <english@adan.kingston.net>
>
>Dear Sirs,
>
>
>I first apologies for interrupting your working hours without any =
>business or friendship relation. I feel sorry if this mail is sent by me =
>goes to unrelated person. As I am in search of some good friends who can =
>help me in my below project. If you can guide me to proper =
>person/organization then I shall be thankful for your this kind help.
>
>
>I introduce myself as a mechanical engineer, and is based in =
>Chandigarh,UT, North India and is involved in setting up of Biomass =
>Briquetting Plants based on agro residues such as Saw dust Mustard Husk, =
>Bagasse Pith, Cotton Stalk, Sarkanda Grass, Pine needles, Coir pith, =
>Coffee Husk, Pulses Husk, Groundnut Shell, Rice Husk etc.. I have in my =
>credit in establishing more than 35 plants of various capacities 250 =
>Kgs/hr, 500 Kgs/Hr and 750 Kgs/hr (capacity of one Briquetting Press =
>machine, People go for 2-4 presses for their units). Briquettes are =
>replacing coal and wood in industrial applications such as Boiler and =
>Brick Kiln. Now combined capacity of Briquette production in India is =
>around 100 ton/hr.
>
>Presently I am involved in developing a furnace/stove for community =
>kitchens which will be using Briquettes. I am designing Stove for firing =
>20 Kgs/hr of Biomass Briquettes of 4000 Kcal/Kg heat value and ash =
>content is 18%. This should replace LPG, Wood, Coal, Kerosene etc. I =
>seek your valued guidance in this regards. My questions are as =
>followings.
>
> 1.. Is this type of equipment being made in any part of world or in =
>USA ?=20
> 2.. if yes then please supply me the addresses of them.
> 3.. If equipment is made then what is the maximum efficiency offered =
>by them.
> 4.. Is this is having electric blower for air supply?
> 5.. How much should be or can be the temperature of exhaust gases.=20
>
>Any relative information supplied by you will help me in designing / =
>modifying the right equipment.
>
>
>So far what I have designed is having three pot of different temperature =
>with a heat exchanger to supply hot air to the furnace. I don't know the =
>efficiency of my prototype model. Hot air exhaust is going between =
>75-110 Degree Centigrade. First pot is having temperature of 800-900 =
>degree centigrade, second pot is having temperature of 400 Degree =
>centigrade and third pot is having temperature of 150 degree centigrade. =
>If you need more information on this please let me know.
>
>I hope you people will help me in this project by providing me the =
>maximum possible information on this. With best regards,
>
>Yours
>
>Ramesh K Nibhoria
>
>NISHANT BIOENERGY CONSULTANCY, # 3521, Sector 38-D, Chandigarh - 160 =
>036, UT, India
>
>Phone & Fax +91-172- 687460, email : nibhoria@id.eth.net
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Dec 22 22:27:39 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Forwarding dialog on intercropping trees (and bamboo)-part 1
Message-ID: <v01540b03b66954f884ac@[204.131.233.38]>

Stovers:
I thought I should get the following dialog onto "stoves", as it is
pertinent to previous list messages. Roy in Costa Rica responded off-line
- and then it was mangled by my server - otherwise this first part would
have appeared sooner.
Read this knowing that Dr. Karve also responded off-list, and I am
sending his reply as Part 2 of this sequence - knowing that many will be
interested in his response which is just in.

I hope others will jump in on the issues of intercropping and bamboo.

Ron

>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 02:24:06 -0600
>To:r@costarica.net
>From:larcon@sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
>Subject:Re: intercropping trees
>Cc:"A.D. Karve" <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in>
>
>Roy and A.D. - see more below:
>
>>Dear Dr. Larson,
>>
>>I received a message back from your server saying that my
>>letter was undeliverable and you received half of it!
>>Here's the whole text again.
>>
>
> (Most unusual - hasn't happened before. Did you also receive a
>message from me on this problem)?
>
>>_________________
>>
>>Dr. Larson,
>>
>>I saw your comments about tree intercropping with corn,
>>etc. on the gasification list. I will shortly be involved
>>with a project in the wet lowlands here in Costa Rica and
>>thus am very interested in this potential method of
>>cultivation. Our project will be based on a collection of
>>the edible plants of the world’s wet Tropics. Instead of
>>planting the collection as nice little monocultivation type
>>
>>patches, I wonder if some sort of intercropping system
>>might give better results?
>>
>>I might mention that the technique of intercropping corn
>>and beans dates back to Pre-Columbian times and seems to
>>increase corn production because of the nitrogen fixation
>>ability of the beans. And if the intercropped trees are
>>nitrogen fixers?
>
> Seems posssible - but there is the problem also of shading. This
>is way off my area of expertise - but I do think AD Karve might help. I
>am sending this on to him as well for comment.
>>
>>Roy Lent
>>
>>______________________________
>>
>>I'm not really into "stoves" as I'm in the tropics, or do
>>you meaning cooking type stoves?
>
> Yes - our interest on "stoves" is entirely on cookstoves. Heating
>is an extra bonus - but we avoid discussions on heat - only..
>
>> My interest is centered,
>>at this time, around the use of chipped bamboo as a fuel
>>for gasifiers, principally to operate engines. With bamboo,
>>one only harvests very mature culms so the entire planting
>>changes little as it is used.
>
> We spend a fair amount of time on this list talking about gasifier
>stoves - but my own interest is in stoves which only pyrolyze - saving the
>charcoal as a co-product.
>
> I have a small interest in bamboo from having spent some time in
>the Kafa region of Ethiopia where they have a large species. AD Karve has
>also had some nice contributions on the bamboo list (which I have not yet
>rejoined). Kafa is a beautiful rainforest and they probably have some food
>plants that would be useful as well in Costa Rica. They have a lot of
>concern about sharing the genetic pool - as they feel ripped off for
>having given the world coffee.
>
> The idea of bamboo chips for cookstoves has not yet appeared on
>our list, but I am hopeful of having a chance to test short sections of
>dried bamboo stalk in a "charcoal-maker" stove. Can you explain a bit
>more about the chipping process?
>
> I am beginning to better understand bamboo culture from having
>been introduced to the subject while in India with Dr. Karve last month.
>
> Best of luck. We need to stay in touch. Seems we should be
>sending this on to the full list. Do you care to be a "stoves list
>member?
>
>
>AD:
> Can you add anything on the subject of tree-corn intercropping?
>And/or bamboo chips (a natural "pellet"!!)?
>
>Ron
>
>>
>>Roy Lent
>>- - - - - - - - - - -
>>A person is a complex, not a unity.
>>
>>Roy Lent
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Dec 22 22:27:48 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Forwarding dialog on bamboo-part 2
Message-ID: <v01540b04b66956abeaf6@[204.131.233.38]>

Stovers:
This is the promised Part 2.

A.D.:
Thanks for today's Botanist's additions on the subject of
intercropping. Very helpful.

Thank you also for adding more below about bamboo and its potential
for income generation.

Alex:
Can you add more for the list about the gasifier that you left in
the Pune area? Was it actually much like the top-lit pyrolyzer similar to
yhat you have been developing in Ontario? About 25% charcoal?

Ron

>From: "A.D. Karve" <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in>
>To: "Ronal W. Larson" <larcon@sni.net>
>Cc: <r@costarica.net>
>Subject: Re: intercropping trees
>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:21:05 +0530
>
>Dear Ron,
>bamboo burns very well and it is perhaps more suitable for making chips than
>wood, because being it splits very easily in the longitudinal direction, and
>if a bundle of bamboo splints, each having a diameter of about half an inch
>were to be cut transversely into half inch pieces, one can have chips having
>a diameter of about half an inch. Transverse sections of whole bamboo, in
>the form of hollow rings, would give a novel form of chips. It would be
>interesting to see how they burn. Alex English made a bamboo gasifies for us
>and it worked very well with bamboo sticks. We have not yet tested it with
>pieces of bamboo that would be small enough to qualify as chips.
>What Roy writes about bamboo harvesting is true. In our system of bamboo
>cultivation, we have 1300 clumps per acre and each clump has 21 to 23 poles.
>7 or 8 of these, that have completed 3 years, are harvested, leaving about
>15 poles in each clump. Using the photosynthates of the standing poles, the
>plant produces 7 to 8 new poles every year. One thus gets annually 10,000
>poles from one acre. Each pole is saleable for about US$ 0.5 in the local
>market. Annually US$ 5000 is a lot of money in Indian currency, especially
>because its bying power in India is about 5 times as in the U.S.A.
>Yours A.D.Karve

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Dec 22 22:27:51 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Forwarding Brochmann on "smoking" of food
Message-ID: <v01540b06b6699a5fd31c@[204.131.233.38]>

Stovers: Per today's forwarded message from "seasesores"
<seasesores@cantv.net>.

Harold: Thanks very much for the very useful additions on smoking of food.
You perhaps win the award for quickest input after becoming a
member (3 days ago)!! Your knowledge sounds authoritative to me.

Ron

>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:42:03 -0700
>To: larcon@sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
>From: Harold Brochmann <hbrochmann@saltspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Inquiry on "smoking" of food
>
>>Stovers-
>>
>> We have never had any discussion of "smoking" of food on our list.
>>Does anyone have some guidance for "seasesores" from Venezuela?
>
>I am sometimes accused of 'accentuating the negative' - so I apologize if
>readers take exception to the first statement: :-)
>Combustion by-products are in general, quite toxic and carcigenous. If you
>are concerned with your statisticl chance of getting intestinal cancer then
>smoked - and barbecued - foods are definitely to be avoided.
>
>Having said that, it is my opinion that the key do superior food smoking is
>to use *cold* smoke over longer periods of time rather than hot smoke.
>
>When I was young (we're talking pre wwII here) I lived in a rural
>scandinavian community where much smoking of meat and fish took place.
>Meats were salted and hung in an airtight structure. A large pile of partly
>dried juniper bushes were placed on the (dirt) floor. Burning wood was
>tossed on - the juniper needles flare up quite dramatically - and the door
>closed. You come back a week later.
>
>When my father smoked trout, the smoke was passed through a long stovepipe
>(on the ground, uphill) so that it was completely cold when it arrived.
>
>When the west coast indians smoked salmon it was done on outdoor racks and
>the smoke drifted over the fish over a period of days.
>
>I suppose what these have in common is that volatile tars etc. condense out
>before they come in contact with the food. ?
>
>PS I spent several months in Venezuela once. Great place.
>
>
>Harold Brochmann
>Saltspring Island, BC, Canada
>http://www.saltspring.com/brochmann
>
>Facts about the UN (from BBC)
>The US share of the UN's regular budget is the equivalent of $1.11 per
>American - San Marino pays $4.26 per person
>The New York headquarters of the UN employs only 4,500 people, while the
>Swedish capital in Stockholm has 60,000 employees
>52,100 people work for the UN. Fast food chain McDonald's employs three
>times this number
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Dec 22 22:27:58 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Forwarding Forssell on "smoking" of food
Message-ID: <v01540b07b669a0042691@[204.131.233.38]>

Stovers: Another contribution to forward on smoking of foods - and on
several other types of stoves.

Can anyone add anything more on the subjcet of carcinogens from
this technique of cooking.

Jeff:
If you are not a list member, you should be - so I am taking the
liberty of signing you up.

1. On your first subject of a an inclosed stove and chimney -
could you expand a bit more on that. What sort of efficiency improvement?
Was the cost acceptable and the stove accepted? Could you supply a sketch?
(Which should be sent to the stoves web site via Alex English:
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

2. On the oven with bypass valving, this sounds much like the
traditional Swedish home heating stoves - a very long chimney winding
through the home - very clever and I don't think we have heard enough about
that concept as applied to cooking. Of course it should raise the
efficency considerably. Did you ever have time to make any efficiency
measurements? We certainly would like to see a sketch - ans also sent to
Alex (check first perhaps through <english@adan.kingston.net>.

3. Anything more you can tell us about the Swedish National
Institute for Distance Education (SSVH)? (as applies to this list subject
matter?)

4. Again thank you for a nice contribution.

Ron

>From: Jeff Forssell <JEFF.FORSSELL@ssvh.se>
>To: "'larcon@sni.net'" <larcon@sni.net>
>Subject: SV: Forwarding inquiry on "smoking" of food
>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:34:57 +0100
>
>When working as a teacher in Tanzania (88-89) I made an enclosed stove
>connected to a chimney for the half-oil-barrel pots that they cooked ugali
>and beans in that worked much better than the 3 stones they had used before.
>The connection to the above question is that I also made a baking stove on
>the basic principle of traditional Swedish ones (One burns the fuel in the
>space where the bread will be placed untill the walls are hot, then brush
>out the ashes and put in the bread. (Sometimes with embers kept along the
>edges.) The stove worked for baking but the project didn't work
>economically because the competition had access to free aid flour which we
>didn't. And my contract ended before I was able to try out this:
>
>When building the baking oven I laid in channels which went through the
>masonry below, around and above the baking space. These channels were to be
>connected to the smoke channel from the stove. When the stove was going
>(which it was daily) and the chinney producing a proper draft, the smoke
>gases would be directed through the oven channels before being returned (up
>stream) to the chimney. By moving some metal baffles the smoke could also
>pass through the baking space.
>
>The idea was to give the oven a basic heat to increase wood economy when
>baking but also to be used at low heat for drying fisk, firewood, produce
>(coffee beans, beans, fruit). By directing the smoke through the space one
>should be able to get smoke's preserving benefits and taste for e.g. fish.
>(Probably increase cancerogen content too, but that doesn't seem to
>discourage people).
>
>The decreased draft had an advantage in itself (slower wood consumption)
>when the stove was used for long cooking at lower power (like beans).
>
>Unfortunately I don't have any copy of the drawing (though I found the
>school still had the original when I visited 95). I could try to make a
>sketch if anyones interested.
>********
>Jeff Forssell (double s)
>Swedish National Institute for Distance Education (SSVH)
>Box 3024
>S-871 03 HÄRNÖSAND /Sweden
>+46(0)611-55 79 48 (Work) +46(0)611-55 79 80 (Fax Work)
>+46(0)611-22 1 44 (Home) (070- 35 80 306 mobil)
>Gamla Karlebyvägen 14 / 871 33 Härnösand
>e-mail: every workday: jf@ssvh.se (travel, visiting:
>jeff_forssell@hotmail.com)
>Personal homepage: http://www.torget.se/users/i/iluhya/index.htm
>My village technology page: http://home.bip.net/jeff.forssell
> ICQ #: 55800587
>
>
>> ----------
>> Från: larcon@sni.net[SMTP:larcon@sni.net]
>> Skickat: den 22 december 2000 09:24
>> Till: stoves@crest.org
>> Kopia: seasesores
>> Angående: Forwarding inquiry on "smoking" of food
>>

<snip>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Dec 22 22:28:01 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: growing maize between rows of fuelwood trees.
Message-ID: <v01540b08b669b6f88b3c@[204.131.233.38]>

Jon - Thank you for this clarification on the experiment you saw. We have
had some other off-line inquiries, so it is good to hear from you.

You said in part today:

>I can put up more detailed notes on this experiment, or find the link to
>ICRAF's web site if there is interest.
>

On behalf of the list, I know that we would appreciate either or both.

Also, could you comment on the nitrogen fixing aspects of the
tree/bush plantings?

What can you say more about the energy quality of the annual
tree/bush cuttings?

Should there be harvesting of the root structure (for its energy
content?)

Thanks again - especially for starting an interesting line of inquiry..

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in Sat Dec 23 09:59:21 2000
From: adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in (A.D. Karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: growing maize between rows of fuelwood trees.
In-Reply-To: <030a01c06c33$8f1c43a0$ac50c6d1@f1v9q1>
Message-ID: <000701c06cf1$1181a0c0$8082c7cb@vsnl.net.in>

Dear Jonathan,
the type of intercropping described by you is a traditional method in India
too. In our case, the most popular woody legume is pigeonpea, Cajanus
cajans. It is a photoperiodically sensitive species, which starts to flower
with the onset of short days, i.e. after September. It is usually mixed
with a traditional millet called pearl millet (Penisetum americanum) or
nowadays also with hybrid sorghum. The grain crop as well as the legume are
planted at the same time, in June/July. The grain crop is harvested at the
end of the monsoon (rainy season) after September, leaving only the legume
in the field. Having a deeper root system, it can grow on the residual
moisture and it is harvested in January. Pigeonpea grows to a height of
about 150 cm and it has woody stems. The dried stems serve the farmer as
domestic fuel. Cotton also serves in the same manner, but it is generally
not mixed with any other crop.
We have introduced an innovative method of transplanting in these long
duration crops, that remain in the field even after our normal monsoon
rains are over. We plant seed in plastic bags, on about 15th of May and
transplant two month old seedlings into the field in the month of July. one
gets double the yield with transplanted crop in the case of both cotton and
pigeonpea.
Yours A.D.Karve

----- Original Message -----
From: Jon & Carrol Otto <otto@sover.net>
To: A.D. Karve <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in>; <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: growing maize between rows of fuelwood trees.

> Dear ALL,
>
> Let me breifly clarify the maize/trees cropping experiment I reviewed in
> western Kenya. The important distinctions from A.D.Karve's descriptions
are:
>
> 1. The trees are planted directly in the rows of maize after the maize
> itself is well established. Thus, there seems to be minimal adverse
> competition for moisture or nutrients -- at least for the maize, which is
> harvested when the tree seedlings are only about 40-50 days old.
>
> 2. The trees (or shrubs -- some herbacious and some not) are treated as
> annual crops -- cut at ground level after about 10 months of growth at
the
> tie of the next maize planting. Vegetative cover year round means less
> crusting of the soil and thus minimal need for tillage at planting, except
> for weed removal. Obviously, tree species that don't die with stem cutting
> may not be appropriate for this system.
>
> ICRAF is also working with a number of tree/shrub species that produce no
> fuel, just enhancement of soil fertility. For fuel-oriented people like
me,
> the fascinating element is getting a household's cooking fuel needs met
from
> existing fields while enhancing maize productivity.
>
> I can put up more detailed notes on this experiment, or find the link to
> ICRAF's web site if there is interest.
>
> Happy holidays!
> Jonathan Otto
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A.D. Karve <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in>
> To: stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>
> Cc: otto@sover.net <otto@sover.net>
> Date: Friday, December 22, 2000 5:17 AM
> Subject: Re: growing maize between rows of fuelwood trees.
>
>
> >Dear Ronal,
> >We conducted an experiment, in which seasonal crops were raised between
> rows
> >of leguminous tree species (agro-forestry). The trees fixed atmospheric
> >nitrogen with the help of root nodule bacteria, and they were also
supposed
> >to extract nutrients from deeper regions of the soil (mining with the
help
> >of trees). We lopped the trees once every 60 days and used the mineral
and
> >nitrogen-rich green biomass as fertilizer for the plants growing between
> the
> >rows of trees. The lopping was also meant to reduce the adverse effect of
> >shade cast by the trees. Shading has many advantages, e.g. the soil
remains
> >moist for a longer period and germination of weed seeds is also checked
if
> >the ground is shaded. But shade also reduces the rate of photosynthesis
of
> >plants being shaded, which we wanted to avoid. On paper this idea looked
> >very good, but in reality the soil between the rows was soon invaded by
the
> >roots of the trees, because here in the state of Maharashtra (India), we
> >have a relatively thin soil cover of just 30 to 100 cm, on top of solid
> >basalt bed-rock. As a result, most trees send their roots out
horizontally,
> >because they cannot grow vertically deep into the rock. Thus in our
> >experiment, the tree roots sucked away the moisture as well as nutrients
> >from the soil between the rows, causing the
> >seasonal crops to grow very poorly. The poor growth of the seasonal crops
> >was not due to any allelopathic constituents of the tree leaves, because
> the
> >same green biomass, applied to plants growing in open fields or in pots,
> >resulted in enhanced yield. We now intend to repeat this experiment, with
> >the modification, that the area between the tree rows would be covered by
> >0.2 mm thick plastic film, on which a 15 to 20 cm layer of soil would be
> >piled up to form raised beds.
> >The seasonal crops would be grown on these raised beds, whereby the
plastic
> >film would act as a barrier, isolating the seasonal crop plants from the
> >roots of the perennial trees. In the modified layout, the trees may act
as
> >wind barriers and show beneficial effect on the seasonal crops.
> >The cost of the raised beds, laid on plastic film, would be about US$1
per
> >square meter. The beds would have a life of about 5 years. If one grew
> >vegetables on these beds, and irrigated them with drip irrigation, one
can
> >grow three to four crops in a year, earning annually about US$2 per sq.m.
> >(or perhaps even more, if buyers are ready to pay a higher price for
> >organically grown vegetables).
> >As to your other query about mixed cropping near our bamboo plantation,
I
> >do not remember having seen any such plot. In order to reach the bamboo,
> we
> >walked between two plots, one having a pure crop of wheat and the other a
> >pure stand of Moringa.
> >Wishing a happy new year to all the stovers,
> >A.D.Karve
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
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>

From otto at sover.net Sat Dec 23 10:23:36 2000
From: otto at sover.net (Jon & Carrol Otto)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: growing maize between rows of fuelwood trees.
Message-ID: <03aa01c06cef$17fe4fe0$ac50c6d1@f1v9q1>

Ron et al --

Last year there was a suggestion from one of the more loquacious stovers
that all of us silent types might be culled from the list unless we make
more written contributions. Stung as I was at the time by this seemingly
heartless suggestion (I mean, ever criminal suspects have the right to
remain silent, at least in the US),
I want to present the current interest in inter-cropping of trees and maize
that one of my very occasional comments re-ignited as evidence that those
who read and think without weekly input can also be useful list
participants. Not all of us have the advantages of salaried (or income
generating) professional involvement in our field of common interest! Whew,
got that off my chest ...

I received an off-list comment and another one from Ron (both copied below),
so with a very quick comment, and promise of more after the year-end
holidays are over, let me respond:

Brief response to Ray and Ron: As of December, between 20,000 and 30,000
farmers in western Kenya have reportedly adopted this two-crop planting
system of maize and trees/shrubs. That seems to be about 1% of the farmers
in this densely populated eco-agricultural zone near Lake Victoria, but the
number is growing rapidly -- far beyond what my term experiment may have
implied. Yes, some of the non-maize species are nitrogen-fixing, while other
show more benefit from green manuring of the above-ground vegetation. From
what I saw none are pulled from the ground to remove roots at harvest. There
are numerous advantages to not disturbing the soil, including a truly
fascinating aspect of this 'experiment' that I have not yet mentioned: soil
carbon sequestration.

SCS will probably enter the lexicon of many of us in coming months and
years, but the first time one begins to understand the profound impact of
it, from soil nutrition to global politics, it completely changes the way
one looks at everything in biofuel production. SCS will likely change the
economics of rural land use, the nature of north-south financial transfers
and a few other fields I have yet to grasp as well. But, I am certainly NOT
the one to explain this, so let's see if others in the Stovers community can
tap into experts who can do it justice ... if this tangent is not taking the
stoves list too far off our topic?

Salaam,

Jonathan Otto

Two messages:
"As one who has used the avenue cropping system for two-and-a half-decades,
I
would certainly be interested in hearing more from Jon Otto of the system he
describes... However I would be happier hearing about it as a system which
has proven itself in use by farmers over extended periods rather than just
an experiment. It will be specially interesting to hear of the ICRAF
experience with new species and in different roles. It is systems which have
visible returns (financial benefits) to the farmer which interest me,
most" from Ray Wijewardene

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronal W. Larson <larcon@sni.net>
To: stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>
Date: Friday, December 22, 2000 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: growing maize between rows of fuelwood trees.

>Jon - Thank you for this clarification on the experiment you saw. We have
>had some other off-line inquiries, so it is good to hear from you.
>
> You said in part today:
>
>>I can put up more detailed notes on this experiment, or find the link to
>>ICRAF's web site if there is interest.
>>
>
> On behalf of the list, I know that we would appreciate either or
both.
>
> Also, could you comment on the nitrogen fixing aspects of the
>tree/bush plantings?
>
> What can you say more about the energy quality of the annual
>tree/bush cuttings?
>
> Should there be harvesting of the root structure (for its energy
>content?)
>
>Thanks again - especially for starting an interesting line of inquiry..
>
>Ron
>
>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>larcon@sni.net
>
>
>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From larcon at sni.net Sat Dec 23 16:33:03 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Forwarding Paul Hait on Smoking of Pemmican Brand beef jerky
Message-ID: <v01540b02b669c52a6313@[204.131.233.48]>

Stovers: The following from Paul Hait - who has had this other interesting
part of his background (in addition to being President of Pyromid Corp - a
sponsor of this list).

Paul - What concerns have you heard about the carcinogenic aspects of
smoking foods - how can it be mimimalized?

Can you offer any simple tips to "seasesores"? (We should all
realize that Paul has spent a lot of time and effort in developing this
product - and we can't expect him to give away trade secrets.)

Ron

>From: "Paul Hait" <phait@hwy97.net>
>To: "Ronal W. Larson" <larcon@sni.net>
>Subject: Re: Forwarding inquiry on "smoking" of food/ Paul responds. I
>founded Pemmican Brand beef jerky
>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:24:03 -0800
>
>Dear Ron,(12/21/2000 )
>
>I use to smoke ~80,000 lbs of Beef a month. I sold Pemmican Brand Beef and
>Buffalo Jerky to General Mills in 1978. I have the only Patent on making
>Beef Jerky ( called the Double Cut process ). We use to smoke with Hickory
>and Alder. Every wood imparts a different flavor. You have to make sure that
>the wood you use does not spoil the taste, which can happen. I think I have
>tested just about every decent smoking wood here in the USA and
>Australia,where I built a plant in 1977 . You cannot use Pine or other
>conifer type woods for meat smoking. You need to use hard woods like
>Mesquite, Manzanita, Hickory,Alder, Oak,Apple,Cherry,etc. Pyromid
>sellsSmoking wood pellets as aflavoring for our briquettes.
>
>We are back in the Beef Jerky business with Real American Brand here in
>Oregon. My SonDave and Lara are doing this. When come to Colorado I will
>bring some samples.
>
<snip short personal section>
>Paul
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ronal W. Larson <larcon@sni.net>
>To: <stoves@crest.org>
>Cc: seasesores <seasesores@cantv.net>
>Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 12:24 AM
>Subject: Forwarding inquiry on "smoking" of food

<snip>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 23 19:27:21 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: "smoking" of food
Message-ID: <ea.f1f352a.27769a73@cs.com>

Dear Ron, Harold and all:

We have studied the carcinogenicity of "smoke" (pyrolysis products of
biomass) at the National Renewable Energy Lab (NREL) and find corroboration
of Harold's comments.

At pyrolysis temperatures up to about 500 C we (Tom Milne, Bob Evans, Jim
Diebold, John Scahill, myself and many others) find that pyrolysis produces
the monomers, oligomers and fragments of the cellulose, hemicellulose and
lignin that are the major constituents of biomass. These are oxygenated
compounds, easily biodegradede and non carcinogenic or mutagenic.

At temperatures over about 700 C (as encountered in combustion and
gasifiction) the primary slate converts completely to a new set of compounds,
the polynuclear aromatics, known carcinogens and mutagens.

So, use "cold smoke" for preserving foods.

Your family physician..... TOM REED

In a message dated 12/22/00 8:35:49 PM Mountain Standard Time, larcon@sni.net
writes:

<<
Harold: Thanks very much for the very useful additions on smoking of food.
You perhaps win the award for quickest input after becoming a
member (3 days ago)!! Your knowledge sounds authoritative to me.

Ron

>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:42:03 -0700
>To: larcon@sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
>From: Harold Brochmann <hbrochmann@saltspring.com>
>Subject: Re: Inquiry on "smoking" of food
>
>>Stovers-
>>
>> We have never had any discussion of "smoking" of food on our list.
>>Does anyone have some guidance for "seasesores" from Venezuela?
>
>I am sometimes accused of 'accentuating the negative' - so I apologize if
>readers take exception to the first statement: :-)
>Combustion by-products are in general, quite toxic and carcigenous. If you
>are concerned with your statisticl chance of getting intestinal cancer then
>smoked - and barbecued - foods are definitely to be avoided.
>
>Having said that, it is my opinion that the key do superior food smoking is
>to use *cold* smoke over longer periods of time rather than hot smoke.
>
>When I was young (we're talking pre wwII here) I lived in a rural
>scandinavian community where much smoking of meat and fish took place.
>Meats were salted and hung in an airtight structure. A large pile of partly
>dried juniper bushes were placed on the (dirt) floor. Burning wood was
>tossed on - the juniper needles flare up quite dramatically - and the door
>closed. You come back a week later.
>
>When my father smoked trout, the smoke was passed through a long stovepipe
>(on the ground, uphill) so that it was completely cold when it arrived.
>
>When the west coast indians smoked salmon it was done on outdoor racks and
>the smoke drifted over the fish over a period of days.
>
>I suppose what these have in common is that volatile tars etc. condense out
>before they come in contact with the food. ?
>
>PS I spent several months in Venezuela once. Great place.
>
>
>Harold Brochmann
>Saltspring Island, BC, Canada
>http://www.saltspring.com/brochmann
> >>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 23 19:27:21 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: SALT - Sloping- Agricultural- Land-Technology
Message-ID: <4c.e8a1d2c.27769a6b@cs.com>

Dear Ray:

I hope you don't mind my forwarding your letter with my blessings to our
readers at CREST.org. CREST is the Center for Renewable Energy and
Sustainable Technology, where gasification and stoves are extensively
discussed, but not much on enhanced PRODUCTION of biomass. Visit their site
at www.crest.org and join any of their groups that appeal to you.)

Dear all:

I met Ray Wijewardene at the STOVE conference in Pune last month. He is
multi-faceted (graduate of Cambridge - the one in England, not US). He is
particularly interested in increasing production of biomass as a fuel - a
subject all us consumers of biomass need to pay attention to and not get
ahead of.

Wish him well....

TOM REED BEF/CPC

In a message dated 12/23/00 1:42:47 AM Mountain Standard Time,
raywije@eureka.lk writes:

<<
Greetings Tom... and thank you for the greatly- appreciated opportunity to
meet you in Pune and learning from that excellent meeting of minds and
interests. By separate mail I am sending your organisation an order for more
books on biomass related subjects... and particularly on methanol over which
my interest was fired by Harry's demonstration. I've written promptly to
Hrry, for more information and recieved a brief response from a member of
his family to which I responded with much data from Sri Lanka... but then
heard nothing more!

I am glad you found your visit to ICRAF interesting ...also as an extension
of what I was saying at Pune. The technique of growing maize etc. between
avenues of (usually NF-nirogen-fixing)trees was termed 'avenue-cropping' and
was earlier known in Indonesia. It was 'researched' at IITA (the
International Institute of Tropical Agriculture... where I too served as
'principal scientist' - ag-engineer for nearly a decade in the '70s)
It spread throughout TROPICAL Africa (Kenya and ICRAF included) and Asia and
Central-America .. as a means for - more sustainably - growing rain-fed
(upland)crops (eg. maize and beans etc., by maximizing the coverage of the
soils with mulch left-over from the preceding crop and the mulch lopped from
NF trees grown in the hedgerows.

This mulch also minimised the loss of soil from erosion (one of the major
causes of diminishing and lost fertility on rain-fed lands)and greatly
helped add to its fertility.

In the Philippines the program of avenue cropping (AC) was extended as SALT
(Sloping Agricultural Land Technology)by the Mindano Baptist Mission and
taken again into Indonesia and Sri Lanka and Burma as a technology for the
restoration of eroded hill-sides which are encountered all over tropical
Asia (and also around Pune!!) We sent several teams there from S'Lanka and
have a very active program going with the tea plantations ... much of it
recorded on video, as also on 'papers'. The local subsidiary of BAT (British
America Tobacco) extended it very actively throughout thousands of acres of
eroded hillsides in the area west of Kandy in S'Lanka and it won them the
first prize in the internationally renowned World-Aware Contest in 1998.

I was greatly honoured to deliver a lecture on the subject at the renowned
lecture hall of the Royal Institution in London (where famous scientists
such as Sir Humphrey Davy, Sir James Dewar, Hermann von Helmoltz have
lectured... even Albert Einstein!) when the CTC Ceylon Tobacco Company (to
which I was honoraray consultant for the program) accepted their very
prestigious award.

But there was always 'something' missing in the SALT / AC
programme... there was apparently no use for the woody sticks and branches
and tree-trunks left in abundance
after the lopping, and the realisation then came that this 'waste' material
would be valuable if only we could find a MARKET for it... and its use - in
coppiced form - as fuel-wood for electricity generation came up.

At this stage, please re-read my paper on GROWING OUR OWN ENERGY which I
trust will be printed in the proceedings of our meeting. I shall be willing
to email a copy to anyone really interested.

The technique of 'high-level-coppicing' (or POLLARDING as it is known to
foresters) was the key to the sustain-ability of the process, as one only
commences to lop the branches when the tree reaches head-height and then
only the branches which have achieved a diameter of about 35mm (1-1/2 inches
to the uninitiated)which is ideally-sized for fuel-wood and yet ensures the
smaller branches are retained on the tree ... mebbe for a further 3 or 4
months. (Money being 'banked' on the trees).. As the trees are planted some
1 by 2 metres apart (about 7,500 trees per hectare)one can usually
anticipate a continuing (dry-weight-yield) of 25 to 30 tonnes per hectare
per year (under typically Pune agro-climatic conditions)with a continuing
cover of the soil with the smaller loppings for mulch or animal-feed. But
the system needs 'extending' by a 'dedicated' organisation (eg.ARTI) with a
clear and attainable commercial market (such as we are trying to develop
here for fuel-wood-generated energy with our national electricity board)
Farmers are unlikely (and, quite naturally) NOT keen on investing their time
in the growing of trees for 'invisible' (or even 'perceive-able') long-term'
benefits. Ray Wijewardene

>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Dec 23 19:27:36 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: New technologies in steam emerging
Message-ID: <b7.9f1ec29.27769a67@cs.com>

Dear Skip:

Nice to have a steam enthusiast on board. I've said some negative things
about steam engines (5% efficiency) here. However, the 19th century was "the
age of steam" followed by the 20 C age of (cheap, plentiful) oil. Now that
we must get serious about alternate energies, we need to re-examine all the
technologies of the 19th C, adding on the 20th C material advances to get the
best mix for the 21st C.

I am not sure I understand the "Cerablanket" (aka Kaowool) furnace. Does the
Cerablanket come in contact with the wood? Or does the firebrick take the
mechanical forces of the wood firing in which case it seems unlikely that the
Cerablanket plays a "catalytic" role? Whichever it is, it sounds like you
are preheating the combustion air with energy that would be lost through the
insulation, a technique that could be used in stoves and gasification as
well.

Do you use rigidizer on the blanket?

I have been touting the use of insulation blanket and riser sleeves here for
four years, but I think most hackers are "insulated" from hearing me. I see
very little stress on insulation here or development of alternate insulations
for developing countries, even though the smaller the device the more
important the insulation (surface to volume increases at small size).

Keep us informed.....

TOM REED BEF/CPC
In a message dated 12/23/00 3:05:46 AM Mountain Standard Time,
Sensiblesteam@aol.com writes:

<<

Two things that I see on the very near horizon that puts steam back on top
both efficiency and cost wise in bio fuels.
First is catalized refractory. For years, I have been getting a wonderful
catalytic reaction using 'cera-blanket' as a liner in my wood burning
fireboxes. Now, by layering a layer of perforated firebrick, behind that a
layer of cerablanket, behind that thin steel plate that is perforated and an
airgap behind that with casing on the other side. This allows air to be
pumped from the casing thru the blanket and then thru the perf brick. We
are
talking small amounts here of air, but enough to ignite and glow. It is
similar to indoor propane heaters used today(ventless).
With such a reaction between the esters and carbon monoxide burning in such
a way as to really put out the i.r. rays, The firebox is improved in many
ways. Including smaller amount of headroom from fuel pile to cieling. This
allows fuel pile to be surrounded by the high radiation/refraction
refractory. In doing so, the fuel pile distills quite easily, and requires
far less incoming air thru the grate which is a big source of nox. The
gasses driven off the fuel pile can now be reignited in a controlled
situation and where most beneficial.
Of even bigger benefit, is this kind of firebox can utilize wood 3' or
even
longer. This signifigantly reduces material handling energy and cost
(hogging). It also makes hand firing feasable. That means a lot in third
world countries.

The biggest news for steam is electric valves. Finally, they are
commercially available. Volvo will put them out in a year. Valve timing on
a piston type steam engine is everything. Without getting too fancy
already,
I manufacture engines that eat far less steam than a turbine up to about
500hp. The cost is less than half also.
If I can operate the valve via electric sylinoid instead of mechanical, I
have infinite adjustment on cutoff and expansion which allows for perfect
governing and a consumption rate of 10-15lbs per hp, vs 50-70 on a turbine.
Again, this is in the up to 500hp bracket, but in the real world, biomass
falls into this catagory. Only the big lumbermills do it larger and they
are
not everywhere. And....they are more user friendly and cheaper.
I am making the statement now that the catalytic refractories and the
electric valving will become the foundation for new technologies in the
combustion of bio fuels. If you do the math, you will see that the fuel
rates come close to diesel engines, but without all the hassles. Boilers
are
more versatile as diesel engines are limited to mainly motive powers and
electricity is the main one. While a boiler can give you the means of
production and manufacturing. This means a genuine return on investment.
...it could be that the grant process will become history. :)

Skip Goebel
Sensible Steam International
www.sensiblesteam.com
www.apin.com.pe
>>
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From tmiles at teleport.com Sun Dec 24 00:04:41 2000
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Happy Holidays
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001223205147.00d29480@mail.teleport.com>

Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to ALL. Thank you all for your
participation and support of the Bioenergy Lists.

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator
Thomas R Miles tmiles@trmiles.com
Technical Consultants, Inc. 503-292-0107
1470 SW Woodward Way 503-292-2919(fax)
Portland, OR 97225 USA www.teleport.com/~tmiles

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sun Dec 24 09:04:26 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: GW revisited.
Message-ID: <11.d94b8cc.277759c7@cs.com>

Dear Tom Taylor and all:

Your main point on global warming, though not stated, is that there are so
many factors not taken into account by the acolytes. My point too, and here
are a few more ponderables..

1) The world was in good shape for LIFE and the living (except for
occasional great extinctions) for the last 200 Million years. That's when we
reduced the CO2 from a few % to 300 ppm. Unfortunately, Nature's recycling
scheme was only 99.9% perfect and she accidentally stored so much carbon in
the ground in the form of coal and oil that the CO2 in the air was an
insufficient blanket to keep us warm. The ice ages began to develop 4
million years ago and have blanketed the earth for 90% of the last 4 million
years, even though we are only dimly aware of it in this unprecedented
interglacial period of 12,000 years.

2) Fortunately, the glaciers stirred the life forms so much that they
produced ... HUMANS... with a meagre intelligence that could learn to extract
the buried carbon and return it to the atmosphere. We have digged and delved
with might and main to put it back and have only raised the level 3%, but we
are moving in the right direction and could just have averted or postponed
the next glacier.

3) The end of cheap oil is upon us, so no doubt we will be more diligent in
using the remaining fossil fuels more carefully and integrating them with
renewables where necessary.

So, enjoy the end of the short but happy fossil fuel era

and stop worrying about Global Warming and start having a

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, From the Biomass Energy
Foundation
and Tom Reed

In a message dated 12/23/00 5:05:36 PM Mountain Standard Time,
LINVENT@aol.com writes:

<<
Dear gasification group,
What if the concerns about various "greenhouse gases" were wrong? What
if the sun was merely going through a cycle or two of higher or lower
output?
What if the apparent climatic changes were merely natural effects? Remember,
there is coal in Antartica and other places where it would seem unusual.
I have seen the list of emission credits which range from
$7900-19,000/ton/year for NOx in various air quality districts. Various
forms
of nitrogen cause significant plant growth and therefore would increase CO2
uptake. Sulfur is singularly a significant plant growth nutrient. SOx is
beneficial to plants after some conversion and some forms are directly
usable
for significant plant use. CO2 is so highly soluble in water than rain will
wash it out very quickly. A slight increase in CO2 will dramatically
increase
plant growth, therefore these two simple factors may very well be excellent
regulating mechanisms for atmospheric pollutants.
Global warming? If the globe heats up, there will be more cloud
formation
from oceanic higher evaporation rate and the clouds will reflect the solar
input heat back into space, cooling the atmosphere. Man's polluting clouds
will reflect heat back into space also, perhaps not as much as they tend to
be darker, however, we in New Mexico see a white smog cloud from LA,
particularly if you watch it as you fly into LA. These all seem to be
regulating systems which balance out each other quite well and natural
systems.
The point of all of this is that man may be taking very disruptive and
highly uneconomic steps for unproven and limited benefits. Notwithstanding
the benefits of gasification to the role of reduced Carbon contribution to
the atmospheric equation, I cannot see taking irrational and unproven steps
to load the economy down at this point. Perhaps the most economic step would
be to put power plant outputs into greenhouses and use the valuable CO2
before it got diluted.
The present "crisis" in energy costs on the west coast is not caused by
deregulation as some would like to think, but by a series of events which
occurred some time ago such as increased regulatory controls on power
plants,
restricted natural gas pipeline capacity due to NIMBY, and other factors,
and
11,000 megawatts of plants being down due to retrofits and other reasons,
all
at once. The pressure for returning to a regulated economy will not solve
the
problem.
Right now, there are more gas turbines on order than there are pipe
lines
and gas supply contracts to supply them. There is a huge and vast reserve
and
supply of fossil fuel which will be developed when the regulatory and
economic conditions are right. This will still be a limited factor in the
alternative energy field, a sad but true situation. Unless the current blip
in prices is sustained, the financial world will not take notice and do
anything about it. They control the system. More sad and true.

Have a merry Christmas and a great New Year.

Tom Taylor >>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sun Dec 24 09:04:35 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Energy Cost Calculator
Message-ID: <58.4f6cbdf.277759db@cs.com>

Dear Bioenergizers:

Fossil fuels have been our inheritance; now that they are well spent we need
to consider renewables. It has been a long dry period for those of us who
could see that fossil fuels would have a limited time on stage. In the last
few weeks

The cost of electricity in California has touched $0.50/kWh

The cost of natural gas has reached $10/MBtu or/GJ (~same thing).

How does this impact renewable fuels? It is difficult to make comparisons,
since each fuel has its own energy content and price structure. The
following table is meant to bring them all together in $/MBTU (for US) which
is approximately $ GJ for the rest of the world. (Note: The tables look
fine on my compuserve full screen display. If they don't look good in your
full page display I will download the Excel file on request.)

CONVENTIONAL COST 1990 1990 2000 2000
2000/ 1990
UNITS MULTIPLIER COST COST COST COST
MBtu/CU $/ $/Mbtu $/ $/Mbtu

Ratio
FOSSIL Comm ~GJ Comm ~GJ
Electricity $/kWh 293 $0.05 $14.65 $0.50
$146.50 10
Natural Gas $/MBtu ~ $GJ 1 $2.00 $2.00 $10.00
$10.00 5
Propane $/gal 8.1 $1.00 $8.10 $2.00 $16.20

2
Gasoline $/gal 8.1 $1.20 $9.72 $1.60
$12.96 1.3
Heating Oil $gal 7.3 $1.00 $7.30 $2.00
$14.60 2
Coal $/ton 0.035 $4.00 $0.14 $10.00
$0.35 2.5

RENEWABLE
Wood $/ton 0.063 $40.00 $2.50 $60.00
$3.75 1.5
Pellets $/bag 3.125 $4.00 $12.50 $3.00
$9.38 0.75
40 lb bag
Pellets $/ton 0.0625 $80.00 $5.00 $50.00
$3.13 0.63
(Wholesale)

The table uses a multiplying factor of MBtu/Commercial Units to convert
commercial costs into $/MBtu (or GJ). It includes reasonable values for
1990
and spot current 2000 (2001?) prices. It then ends with the ratio of year
2000 energy prices to 1990 prices, showing the current increase in energy
prices.

I have been interested in densified biomass fuels since 1977 and waiting for
them to become "commercial". I have been using bags of sawdust wood
pellets,
surely the most expensive way to buy energy in my stoves and gasifiers. In
1990 the wood pellet stove began to appear in US markets. By 2000 they were
quite common, so the pellets are available in larger hardware stores at
$2.50
to $3/bag. Pellets are the only fuels whose prices have decreased in the
decade. By the bag is still pricey compared to some coal, but better than
all
other fossil fuels. Anyone using a lot of pellets will probably buy by the
ton.

One reason for the low increase in renewable fuels is that it probably
doesn't factor in the increase costs of producing them using fossil fuels -
yet. So wait a year and see what happens to them. Still, the trends favor
renewables.

Yours truly,

Tom Reed THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION
>>

To: GASIFICATION@crest.org, STOVES@CEST.org, BIOENERGY@crest.org, ETHANOL@crest.org, BIOCONVERSION@crest.org
Subject: GAS-L: Energy Cost Calculator
From: Reedtb2@cs.com
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:41:10 EST
Reply-To: gasification@crest.org
Sender: owner-gasification@crest.org

Dear Bioenergizers:

Fossil fuels have been our inheritance; now that they are well spent we need
to consider renewables. It has been a long dry period for those of us who
could see that fossil fuels would have a limited time on stage. In the last
few weeks

The cost of electricity in California has touched $0.50/kWh

The cost of natural gas has reached $10/MBtu or/GJ (~same thing).

How does this impact renewable fuels? It is difficult to make comparisons,
since each fuel has its own energy content and price structure. The
following table is meant to bring them all together in $/MBTU (for US) which
is approximately $ GJ for the rest of the world. (Note: The tables look
fine on my compuserve full screen display. If they don't look good in your
full page display I will download the Excel file on request.)

CONVENTIONAL COST 1990 1990 2000 2000
2000/ 1990
UNITS MULTIPLIER COST COST COST COST
MBtu/CU $/ $/Mbtu $/ $/Mbtu

Ratio
FOSSIL Comm ~GJ Comm ~GJ
Electricity $/kWh 293 $0.05 $14.65 $0.50
$146.50 10
Natural Gas $/MBtu ~ $GJ 1 $2.00 $2.00 $10.00
$10.00 5
Propane $/gal 8.1 $1.00 $8.10 $2.00 $16.20

2
Gasoline $/gal 8.1 $1.20 $9.72 $1.60
$12.96 1.3
Heating Oil $gal 7.3 $1.00 $7.30 $2.00
$14.60 2
Coal $/ton 0.035 $4.00 $0.14 $10.00
$0.35 2.5

RENEWABLE
Wood $/ton 0.063 $40.00 $2.50 $60.00
$3.75 1.5
Pellets $/bag 3.125 $4.00 $12.50 $3.00
$9.38 0.75
40 lb bag
Pellets $/ton 0.0625 $80.00 $5.00 $50.00
$3.13 0.63
(Wholesale)

The table uses a multiplying factor of MBtu/Commercial Units to convert
commercial costs into $/MBtu (or GJ). It includes reasonable values for 1990
and spot current 2000 (2001?) prices. It then ends with the ratio of year
2000 energy prices to 1990 prices, showing the current increase in energy
prices.

I have been interested in densified biomass fuels since 1977 and waiting for
them to become "commercial". I have been using bags of sawdust wood pellets,
surely the most expensive way to buy energy in my stoves and gasifiers. In
1990 the wood pellet stove began to appear in US markets. By 2000 they were
quite common, so the pellets are available in larger hardware stores at $2.50
to $3/bag. Pellets are the only fuels whose prices have decreased in the
decade. By the bag is still pricey compared to some coal, but better than all
other fossil fuels. Anyone using a lot of pellets will probably buy by the
ton.

One reason for the low increase in renewable fuels is that it probably
doesn't factor in the increase costs of producing them using fossil fuels -
yet. So wait a year and see what happens to them. Still, the trends favor
renewables.

Yours truly,

Tom Reed THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION

The Gasification List is sponsored by
USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com

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http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml

From jovick at island.net Sun Dec 24 12:03:11 2000
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Holidays
Message-ID: <000a01c06db0$406052a0$6fb8fea9@computer>

December 24, 2000

Dear Everyone & all Stovers

J.F Ventures would like to wish everyone a Very
Merry Christmas & A Happy New Year

Have a Good One
John Flottvik

From rdboyt at yahoo.com Sun Dec 24 13:27:15 2000
From: rdboyt at yahoo.com (Richard Boyt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Agroforestry Course at Missouri U.
Message-ID: <20001224181648.22708.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Sustainable Stovers,
This information is taken from the Autumn 2000
publication Green Horizons published by the U. of Mo.

The University of Missouri Center for Agroforestry
is holding a two-day course on designing and
implementing five temperate agroforestry practices
Jan. 10-11, 2001 at Columbia Mo. The course covers
alley cropping, silvopasture, forest farming riparian
forest buffers, and windbreaks. Cost of $65 includes
100 page manual, a copy of the new 402 page book North
American Agroforestry: An Integrated Science and
Practice, a collection of 25 slides illustrating the 5
practices, two videos on silvopasture and alley
cropping, two box lunches, and observations of several
landowners discussing their agroforestry experiences.

For registration and hotel information , contact the
University of Missouri Center for Agroforestry at 203
ABNR Columbia MO 65211, Attn:Dusty Walter,
(573)884-7991; (WalterD@missouri.edu).

Doubt if I can make it but hope someone can. If you
are in the area, stop in.
Richard Boyt 20479 Panda.Neosho Mo.64850

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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Dec 25 10:01:23 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Recycling newspapers as fire wood.
Message-ID: <b6.f00dd6b.2778b8c8@cs.com>

Dear Harry:

I have long gnashed my teeth over the difficulty of burning the ~ 10 lb of
newspapers I send to the dump. I also experimented in the 1970s with
"rollers" that typically needed to wet the paper to make a dense log, then
dry it. As you say, the problem is that each layer chars separately and
cools down immediately, then prevents air from getting to the next layer

I mis-read your solution "replacing the news paper in the plastic bag in
which the paper was delivered." I probably would have understood better
"reinserting". Anyhow, do you roll it tight before replacing? I'll start my
testing today, but look forward to more details. We have a fire almost every
night here in Denver (Golden).

As to the reclycling problem, this is one alternative, making new "usedpaper"
products is another. If they want MY paper, they should pay me for it rather
than my having to beg them to take it.

Happy Holidays and happy burning...

TOM REED BEF PRESS

In a message dated 12/24/00 6:11:34 AM Mountain Standard Time,
H.Parker@ttu.edu writes:

<< Hello bioenergy people,

Over the years it has "bothered" me to carry old newspapers out to the trash
and then carry in purchased firewood for the "decorative" fireplaces we have
in the US.

Unfortunately rolled newspapers do not burn well and conveniently even with
the aid of natural gas. They tend to just char. I have tried several
variations. Recently I improved the situation significantly by replacing
the news paper in the plastic bag in which the paper was delivered.
Additional plastic film can be rolled up with the newspaper before placing it
in the bag. The plastic to paper ratio can be varied to get desirable
burning characteristics -- enough plastic to burn well, but not to melt and
drip. Yes, I know this is not the most effective way to recycle, but it does
decrease the amount of MSW going to landfills and the amount of wood being
burned.

Harry
>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Dec 25 10:02:15 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: New technologies in steam emerging
Message-ID: <a5.f5dc122.2778b8dd@cs.com>

Skip:

Thanks for the practical feedback on efficiency and insulation.

Hope to meet you someday - where do you hang out?

TOM REED

In a message dated 12/23/00 9:40:56 PM Mountain Standard Time,
Sensiblesteam@aol.com writes:

<<
Tom,
5% is for engines that were in duties that required practicality and
efficiency was irrelavant. Ships 100 years ago used piston engines that had
efficiencies that equalled today's powerplants. Often, an engine only is as
efficient as the practical application requires. Turbine or piston, it is
still application over efficiency and we steamers tend to look at the overal
picture. For example, if you had a vehicle that had a boiler that used
unrefined fuel and got 10 miles per gallon, and then you had a vehicle that
used the same fuel but refined and got 20 miles per gallon, at first glance,
#2 is better......but.....if it took an additional two gallons of energy to
make the one gallon of refined fuel (3 total), one realizes that it is way
behind the curve and logistics becomes the key word. Material handling is
everything if one is to pay back the bank loan. That was why I spewed the
angle of bulk vs. chipped wood.

On the blanket, yes, I use rigidizer when i use blanket that is exposed to
the combustion area. In fact, when I can get it, I preferr to use the
'presoaked' version as it is a good buy and molds to any shape. Sure beats
pounding mortar. In the discussion, I alluded to using the cerablanket only
as an insulation. The brick would act like a catalyst just like the one used
in a ventless gas heater. Using perforations and ridges, fuel and air are
surrounded on three dimensions in close proximity by a reflective ceramic.
The result is the co is easily reignigted and emits a large amount of ir
rays. This particular energy is directed back into the fuel pile where it
will do the most good (gasification without a lot of incoming air) The
amount of air coming thru the perforated brick is minimal too...say10% and
the amount in the grate is maybe 10-20%. The rest of the air, is admited to
the gasifed gasses and hopefully preheated then mixed rapidly for reignition.
this is the part that does the boiler work.
I think that the important thing here is effectively utilizing the biomass
with minimal pollution instead of trying to squeeze out the last watt from a
pound of wood. From what customers have told me, the main concern is to get
rid of a waste product cheaply instead of trying to beat the power company.
Hence, my "practical" approach.

BTW...Amen on your risers. Insulation is what everyone uses once they have
got past the phase of fabrication and building the prototype (providing they
got that far) and go on to a improved version.

As an aside, it seems to me that the lighter the insulation, the quicker it
will react (surface catalyize) and that is important in a fuel that
fluctuates such as wood.

Good to see the forums are active again
Skip Goebel
Sensible Steam International
www.apin.com.pe www.sensiblesteam.com
>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Dec 25 10:02:20 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Right actions, wrong reasons???
Message-ID: <54.dd060e2.2778b8e2@cs.com>

Dear Peter:

Let me paraphrase your first paragraph.... "There must be little doubt that
the "Greenhouse" effect is real. After all why would thousands of
scientists, research institutions and corporates around the world be
receiving large sums of public monies to fund the research to identify
solutions ? Surely not job security for those
involved, or new policy generated economic growth ??"

"Surely COLD FUSION must be real! After all, why would...... ETC" (I might
add that cold fusion was cooked up by an ex Aussie from Flinders U.)

I call it the Lemming effect. Most people don't have enough understanding of
the physical universe in their heads to evaluate the data turned out by other
people (who may not have enough....) who have been convinced by other people
()..... ETC.

There was a big flap with millions of dollars spent on a new form of water
invented by the Russians.

Caterpiller Tractor spent lots of money on "burning water" with Rudy
Gunnerman.

~~~~~

So, this world needs a few independent thinkers to comment that the King Has
No Clothes On!

Even if sometimes they aren't sure.

And, I agree that we should all be doing what the GW gand wants us to do for
the practical reasons that it will save money, save the environment and save
fuel for our posterity.

But I don't agree that we should be doing the right things for the wrong
reasons.

Best of the best...

TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 12/23/00 7:55:30 PM Mountain Standard Time,
p.m.davies@bigpond.com.au writes:

<<
Dear All,

I must say I have yet to find any convincing evidence that any current
global climatic differences can be attributed to human actions, still the
precautionary principle should apply ...... (which states decision makers
must be at all times negative where they don't personally know the answers).

My own view is based simply on good resource management and environmental
care. Decision making based on all the values present in natural systems
and ensuring none are lost, recognising that we are part of these systems
(not outside it). For these reasons alone I would support bioenergy
research.

At the end of the day the "little people" will make the biggest difference,
they are the largest market and have the greatest need whilst also having
the committment to the land. A 100MW power plant is nice and efficient
(from the corporate profit view) but 200 small plants accessing the diffuse
biomass resource, putting out 500kW each achieves the same end in terms of
generating capacity, even if the profits are retained by the operators
through their labours (OOPS!).

Lots of challenges here including integrating these hundreds of "island"
generators into a national grid. The benefits though are far greater than
the sum of its parts, particularly any "greenhouse" considerations.

Cheers, into the true millenium

Peter
OOPS - Owner Operated Power Systems
>>
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From woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru Mon Dec 25 10:49:19 2000
From: woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru (Yudkevich Yury)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: TOO DRY!?
In-Reply-To: <a8.ee30a0e.277533c9@cs.com>
Message-ID: <008901c06e89$3e57f2e0$663fefc3@a1g0h5>

----- Original Message -----
From: <Reedtb2@cs.com>
To: <english@adan.kingston.net>; <gasification@crest.org>;
<stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 1:46 AM
Subject: TOO DRY!?

> Dear Alex and all:
......................................
. I presume that when the wood is wet it is
more difficult to ignite each succeeding layer and that therefore more of
the
charcoal is burned to remove water. This is an auto-compensation effect
that
I would not have expected.
......................................
> Onward... TOM REED
>

Dear Tom,
The main reason is present probably: the water pairs leave an internal
layer of wood and pass through the heated coal on a surface of a piece. The
reaction of water gas proceeds. CO + hydrogen is formed and charcoal is
spent.

I wish to all happy Christmas, happy and successful New Year and New
Millenium.

Yury Yudkevich (Russia)

From woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru Mon Dec 25 10:54:32 2000
From: woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru (Yudkevich Yury)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: TOO DRY!?
In-Reply-To: <4c.e8a1d2c.27769a6b@cs.com>
Message-ID: <009b01c06e89$f9ccd720$663fefc3@a1g0h5>

----- Original Message -----
From: <Reedtb2@cs.com>
To: <english@adan.kingston.net>; <gasification@crest.org>;
<stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 1:46 AM
Subject: TOO DRY!?

I wish to all happy Christmas, happy and successful New Year and New
Millenium.

Yury Yudkevich (Russia)

From adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in Tue Dec 26 09:33:23 2000
From: adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in (A.D. Karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Recycling newspapers as fire wood.
In-Reply-To: <b6.f00dd6b.2778b8c8@cs.com>
Message-ID: <000001c06f48$eb1dc8a0$a052c5cb@vsnl.net.in>

Dear tom,
here in India, there are collection points for our used newspapers. We get
about US$ 0.1 per kg. There are also people who come to your doorstep and
collect old newspapers and pay you for the papers that you hand over to
them, but they generally pay you less that what the collection centres pay.
A.D.Karve

----- Original Message -----
From: <Reedtb2@cs.com>
To: <H.Parker@ttu.edu>; <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Recycling newspapers as fire wood.

> Dear Harry:
>
> I have long gnashed my teeth over the difficulty of burning the ~ 10 lb of
> newspapers I send to the dump. I also experimented in the 1970s with
> "rollers" that typically needed to wet the paper to make a dense log, then
> dry it. As you say, the problem is that each layer chars separately and
> cools down immediately, then prevents air from getting to the next layer
>
> I mis-read your solution "replacing the news paper in the plastic bag in
> which the paper was delivered." I probably would have understood better
> "reinserting". Anyhow, do you roll it tight before replacing? I'll start
my
> testing today, but look forward to more details. We have a fire almost
every
> night here in Denver (Golden).
>
> As to the reclycling problem, this is one alternative, making new
"usedpaper"
> products is another. If they want MY paper, they should pay me for it
rather
> than my having to beg them to take it.
>
> Happy Holidays and happy burning...
>
> TOM REED BEF PRESS
>
> In a message dated 12/24/00 6:11:34 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> H.Parker@ttu.edu writes:
>
> << Hello bioenergy people,
>
> Over the years it has "bothered" me to carry old newspapers out to the
trash
> and then carry in purchased firewood for the "decorative" fireplaces we
have
> in the US.
>
> Unfortunately rolled newspapers do not burn well and conveniently even
with
> the aid of natural gas. They tend to just char. I have tried several
> variations. Recently I improved the situation significantly by replacing
> the news paper in the plastic bag in which the paper was delivered.
> Additional plastic film can be rolled up with the newspaper before placing
it
> in the bag. The plastic to paper ratio can be varied to get desirable
> burning characteristics -- enough plastic to burn well, but not to melt
and
> drip. Yes, I know this is not the most effective way to recycle, but it
does
> decrease the amount of MSW going to landfills and the amount of wood being
> burned.
>
> Harry
> >>
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> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
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> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

From larcon at sni.net Tue Dec 26 11:30:56 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Forwarding Hait (#2) and Calderon on Smoking
Message-ID: <v01540b01b66bf40020f1@[204.131.233.23]>

Stovers:

Two more messages on the subject of smoking.

>From: "Paul Hait" <phait@hwy97.net>
>To: "Ronal W. Larson" <larcon@sni.net>
>Subject: Re: Forwarding Paul Hait on Smoking of Pemmican Brand beef jerky
>Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:33:18 -0800
>Dear Ron,
>
>We would always cold smoke our product in a separate chamber. We wanted
>flavor only. Thanks for the follow up.

and from Derrick Calderon a question on smoke from coffee trees. ( I found
out in Ethiopia that the coffee blossom has a wonderful scent - very
different from the bean)
Please let the list know if you try this wood also for smoking.
There seems to be a consensus that the cooler the smoke the better.

There seems to be considerable pruning of coffee trees to make it
easier for pickers. Is the wood used now in cookstoves near you in
Guatemala (where coffee is a major crop)?

I am also signing you up for the list.

Ron

>From: "Derick Calderon" <entre16@intelnet.net.gt>
>To: "Ronal W. Larson" <larcon@sni.net>
>Subject: RE: Forwarding Paul Hait on Smoking of Pemmican Brand beef jerky
>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 06:53:50 -0600

>Has anyone tried coffee tree wood for any purpose??
>
>Derick Calderon
>Tel 502 3671197 Fax 502 3671196
>7 Ave 15-79 Guatemala 001010

From larcon at sni.net Tue Dec 26 11:31:00 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Forwarding Johnston query on preferred stoves.for Cent. Amer,
Message-ID: <v01540b03b66bf5b88864@[204.131.233.23]>

Phil:

1. I am signing you up for our list - as I think you will benefit from
listening in for awhile. I don't think there is a simple answer to your
question. We do not maintain a list of names, but we have 200 members
around the world - most trying to get a better answer to you question. A
few will probably want to communicate their intrerest in Central America.

2. Make sure you also listen in to the Spanish language list called
"Bioenergia". I am sending this also to Rogerio Miranda, its list
coordinator.

3. Although there are a number of "stoves" list members operating in
Central America. I am not aware that any are working with briquets
specifically.

4. They and others on the list can probably help more if you could tell us
more about your project. Is there an upper limit on stove costs? Why are
briquets important to you? What sort of cooking is expected (number of
pots, need for frying, etc). Is the indoor air quality issue one of
concern? Do you plan on a chimney or hood? Etc.

5. Please keep us informed of decisions you come to - we will all be
interested (and I hope some of the respondents to you will cc this list.).

Ron

>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:18:44 -0500
>From: Phil Johnston <jpjohnston@worldnet.att.net>
>To: stoves@crest.org
>Subject: Fuel efficient stoves for Central America
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
>Would you please share with me the addresses I would use to contact
>individuals and/or institutions that have information concerning fuel
>efficient stoves applicable for use in Central America. I am
>particularly interested in stoves in which fuel briquettes can be used.
>
>Many thanks, Phil Johnston

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Dec 26 20:37:04 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Johnston query on preferred stoves.for Cent. Amer,
Message-ID: <26.f16ea4c.277a9ef5@cs.com>

Dear Phil and Ron:

It is not clear to me from Phil's question whether he is asking about cooking
stoves or room heating stoves (and some do both).

Therefore, let me request that when it is not clear from the context, that we
all use the word

COOKSTOVE

to remove ambiguity.

So, Phil, for heating, cooking or both????

TOM REED BEF PRESS

In a message dated 12/26/00 9:25:57 AM Mountain Standard Time, larcon@sni.net
writes:

<<

>Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:18:44 -0500
>From: Phil Johnston <jpjohnston@worldnet.att.net>
>To: stoves@crest.org
>Subject: Fuel efficient stoves for Central America
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
>Would you please share with me the addresses I would use to contact
>individuals and/or institutions that have information concerning fuel
>efficient stoves applicable for use in Central America. I am
>particularly interested in stoves in which fuel briquettes can be used.
>
>Many thanks, Phil Johnston

Ronal W. Larson, PhD >>
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From pippo at imre.oc.uh.cu Wed Dec 27 12:15:04 2000
From: pippo at imre.oc.uh.cu (Walfrido Alonso Pippo)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Fw: TOO DRY!?
Message-ID: <008801c0703e$d22fb8c0$0a21a8c0@imre.oc.uh.cu>

Hello! All
Dear Yuri Yudkevich
I replayed your message but it returned back. Why? I don't know.
So, I am forwarding it to "stoves " now. I hope you will receive it.
C Hobbim Godom!
Bcego xoposhego!

----- Original Message -----
From: Walfrido Alonso Pippo <pippo@imre.oc.uh.cu>
To: Yudkevich Yury <woodcoal@mailbox.alkor.ru>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: TOO DRY!?

> Dear Yuri Yudkevich,
> I read your message and others about charcoal making using wet wood.
> I have a few questions:
> 1. How it depends of the wood size? What about sawdust? Does it work on
the
> same way?
> 2. What is , in your opinion, the best figure of wood's moisture for
> pyrolysis?
> We are working on a project about energy use of sugarcane bagasse. The
> average moisture of bagasse is about 45-50% at the end of sugar
production.
> We know that it is necessary to dry it , but how much?
> I would appreciate your kind sending your opinion
> Thanking for your attention I remain,
> your
> Pippo
> Ð¡ ÐOBÐ«Ðœ Ð“ÐžÐ”ÐžÐœ!
> Ð’Ð¡Ð•Ð“Ðž Ð¥ÐžÐ ÐžÐ¨Ð•Ð“Ðž!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Walfrido Alonso Pippo
> Instituto de Materiales y Reactivos.(IMRE)
> Universidad de La Habana
> Zapata s/n esq. a G, C.P. 10400 Vedado C. Habana, Cuba
> Telf. 705707, 707666. Fax (53-7) 794651
> E-mail : pippo@imre.oc.uh.cu
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------------
>
>
>

From larcon at sni.net Wed Dec 27 14:18:53 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Forwarding Lacatusu on sawdust uses
Message-ID: <v01540b02b66fc210a9b1@[204.131.233.35]>

Stovers:

Perhaps some of you may have suggestions for this inquiry from
Romania (I think our first from there).

Codrin:

In our archives, look expecially for work reported by Elsen Karstad
on the charcoaling of sawdust (with later briquetting).. There also have
been some reports on work by Dr. Priya Karve, who wrote her Master's thesis
on the subject of sawdust-burning cookstoves.

Please keep the list informed of ideas that your generate.

Ron

>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:12:34 +0200
>From: Codrin Lacatusu <lcodrin@ch.tuiasi.ro>
>To: jiajih@mbox4.singnet.com.sg, stoves@crest.org, ITDevelop@itdevelop.com
>Subject: Re: UISPP
>
>Dear Sir,
>I read with interest on INTERNET your presentation about briqueting
>equipments without binder, from sawdust.
>I wish, if it's possible, some informations about your briqueting technology
>without binder from sawdust, with minimal costs.
>Also, if you know another profitable utilization possibilities of sawdust,
>please send to me these informations (for example sawdust bricks).
>Thank you for your courtesy.
>The best,
>Viorela Lacatusu.
>
>P.S. A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From mchambwera at wwf.org.zw Thu Dec 28 02:08:19 2000
From: mchambwera at wwf.org.zw (mchambwera@wwf.org.zw)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Energy Conversions: Please Help
In-Reply-To: <00ae01c07038$6cbbcb60$299b0f18@lbbck1.tx.home.com>
Message-ID: <200012280734.JAA25829@wwf.org.zw>

Hi all,

Can anyone help with conversions of the following fuels to energy
units such (j or MJ)

1 litre Kerosene or Paraffin
1 kg firewood
1 kg charcoal
LPG

I need the inofrmation urgently.

Muyeye

From otto at sover.net Thu Dec 28 17:31:14 2000
From: otto at sover.net (Jon & Carrol Otto)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:44 2004
Subject: Busted by the File Name Police!
Message-ID: <004401c07115$29157d60$3b73c6d1@f1v9q1>

Dr Tom,

'Careless' would imply that one knew of the concern in question and did not
take effort to do the task properly. More appropriate terms of this
transgression of mine might be, say, thoughtless or mindless, as it never
occured to me to label my ramblings.

Have a most peaceful, prosperous and well organized new year, and I'll meet
you often on the list in the new new mellenium -- I'm the disorganized guy
with the very occasional miscellaneous thoughts that make such an
intolerable mess of everyone's inbox (sigh). I'ld promise to do better,
honest I would, but that would only raise expectations I know I cannot
sustain.

Now, burn this message -- it hardly merits filing under any known SUBJECT,
except maybe 'feeble humor' or 'unauthorized off-topic comments'.

And know, Dr. Tom, that your insightful inputs are greatly appreciated by me
and many others in this field.

A Happy New Year to all,

Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: Reedtb2@cs.com <Reedtb2@cs.com>
To: stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>; gasification@crest.org
<gasification@crest.org>
Date: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Elsen Karstad on chardust

>Dear all:
>
>The following message contained nothing whatever on chardust. We
>occasionally get careless about filing in a legitimate SUBJECT, but for
those
>of us buried in Email to the Eballs, it is convenient to have the Subject
>match the subject, particularly for filing.
>
>Hope we can do better in the next millenium that starts next week.
>
>Tom Reed
>
>In a message dated 12/18/00 4:33:26 PM Mountain Standard Time,
larcon@sni.net
>writes:
>
><<
> Stovers (addressing this mainly to AD Karve, Ray Wijewardene, and Jon):
>
> Jon Otto said in part:
>
> <snip>
>
> >Miscellaneous observation: I had the chance last week to inspect a
> >fascinating program in western Kenya sponsored by the International
Center
> >of Research on Agroforestry (ICRAF) in which farmers were doubling up
> >harvests of maize and fast-growing tree species, annually harvesting
enough
> >woody biomass on about one acre to supply a household with its cooking
fuel,
> >while increasing maize yields (not to mention other benefits on local and
> >planetary levels). For deforestation doomsayers such as I, this is a
truly
> >exciting prospect. How to scale up or disseminate its application, and
the
> >development of modifications to work this system in lower rainfall areas,
> >are great challenges; still, I strongly believe ICRAF is onto something
big.
>
> <snip>
>
> AD - Could you please comment on the above from your background as a
>botanist?
>
> I am thinking of your demonstration during the field trip to
> Phaltan - in which you were demonstrating the importance of windbreaks in
> plant growth. Should that be the explanation for the importance of
> interspaced trees to improve the corn productivity?
>
> Could it be moisture conservation from shading?
>
> Is this phenomenon already well written up in botany circles - and
> if so it would seem to have huge importance (as Jon has suggested) for the
> future of a ready source of wood for households (as Ray Wijewardene from
> Sri Lanka was emphasizing for us also in the Pune meeting).
>
> Anything you can add to encourage this practice worldwide
> (essentially free firewood nearby). would be well received by our list at
> this time.
>
> When you showed Alex and I your bamboo grove outside Phaltan,
there
> was also some intercropping that you discussed nearby. Any similarlity?
> Any data on increased income from certain tree species? Please remind us
> what that situation was.
>
> Ray - were you aware of this nice merging of interests? Have you also
> seen literature of increased crop yield as being a major incentive for
tree
> planting?
>
> Jon - Thanks for this interesting correspondence. You didn't mention
> whether the trees were possibly being used for your interest in inedible
> seed oils (for light and cooking purposes). Was that going on here or
just
> a later future possibility? Any new news on the seed oil front?
> Anything more you can supply on tree species or details of
> increased yields etc would be helpful.
>
>
> Stovers - More background on the above three individuals:
>
> AD. I had many more opportunities to talk with AD than most of
the
> conference delegates - it is clear that he has a huge knowledge of exactly
> this topic - why plants behave and propagate in particular ways. This
> question is being addressed to one of the world's experts on such topics.
>
> Ray Wijewardene was the only person at the Stoves conference
making
> an impassioned plea for tree planting - with emphasis on coppicing or a
> sustained yield. I don't know lots about Ray, but he is a retired
business
> man with many Sri Lankan honors - and a successful career throughout the
> world in manufacturing and selling small hand steered two-wheel tractors.
>
> Similarly, I have visited Jon and his wife Carrol in New York and
> can attest that they are dedicated to rural third world development, with
a
> great deal of successful consulting going on in fields such as this he is
> describing in Kenya. If Jon suggests the result is new, it probably is.
> He almost made it to Pune and I'm sorry they were not there - but clearly
> he has a good excuse if he was in Kenya shortly after.
>
> Stovers - anyone else on this topic?
>
> Ron
>
> Ronal W. Larson, PhD
> 21547 Mountsfield Dr.
> Golden, CO 80401, USA
> 303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
> larcon@sni.net
>
> >>
>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sun Dec 31 09:04:23 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:45 2004
Subject: Inside out heating
Message-ID: <63.fd1a193.278093b1@cs.com>

Dear Joacim, Peter et al:

I enjoyed the description of microwave heating, having done a similar
experiment a decade ago. It is very illustrative of both pyrolysis and
microwve heat transfer.

The microwaves couple to the water in the wood and begin heating and
vaporizing the water. However, there is heat loss at the outer surface, but
not inside, so the inside pyrolyses while the outside remains cooler. One
can then produce the effect of "inside out heating".

Tom Reed

In a message dated 12/29/00 2:28:23 PM Mountain Standard Time,
joacim@ymex.net writes:

<<
On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Peter M. Davies wrote:

> Thanks Tom and Alex,
>
> This raises some interesting questions on design and application of
> gasifiers using refined biomass fuels (as opposed to the expensive redesign
> required everytime the fuel source changes characteristics).

...and for unrefined fuel as well.

I did the little piece-of-wood-in-the-microwave-experiment a while ago. I
was curious about how dry the fuel I had really was. So I put a slice of it
in the micro. (birch, about ..let's see - I have it on the desk - 4cm
thick, and about 8cm diameter)

[Actually, I hope to get my hands on a precision scales one day - weigh a
sample, dry it in the oven, weigh it again and calculate the moisture
content from that. I used to do that with grain when I worked in a silo in
the late summers/autumns when I was a student. We had an electric moist
measuring device that we used for fast tests, but used a precision scales
and oven (regular lab oven, not microwave) when we needed precision
measurements. Later on, we got an automatic precision moist measuring
device which heated the sample with halogene lights and calculated the
moist level automatically. Much faster, and very convenient.]

I took it out every once in a while, looked at it, smelled at it.

The first minute or couple of minutes, nothing happened except it went
warmer. Then the oven was suddenly filled with fog. No smell, just water
vapour. So that was water being boiled out from the sample.

After a while, the fog seized, but soon after it started stinking like
@%$#&*. It was like getting smoke in your eyes, only there was no smoke at
all. I always thought that it was smoke particles that hurt ones eyes when
one gets smoke in them, but apparently it is some other transparent vapour,
acetum perhaps, maybe methanol, ammonium...? A mix of all of it?

At that point I was ready to throw it out, but decided to stand it just a
little longer, to see what would happen... I noticed a dark spot forming
at one end of the sample, halfway from the centre to the edge, and opening
the oven (rubbing my eyes intensly ;) I noticed a similar dark spot on the
opposite side. Then there was smoke. So I turned off the oven. Still smoke.
More smoke. I took it out the door. Still smoking. I wet it slightly to
cool it off and put it on the cold ground, and after a few minutes the
smoke seized.

So that was carbonisation in action then. Although I'd rather take the
microwave oven outdoors next time, it was interesting to see it close and
"live". It's rather impractical to take out fuel samples from a red hot
gasifier. ;)

After the sample had cooled down, I split it in half, and noticed a
carbonised cavity had formed within the sample. Now, since the piece of
wood wasn't completely dry to begin with, and an amount of water had left
it as steam, I assume there were no air-oxygen left in the wood. So this
little experiment illustrated self-carbonisation very well. All that was
added was heat, but only to the point of smoke coming from the sample.

What surprised me was the large amounts of smoke I got. Smoke consists of,
I suppose, what we call tars or tar fumes. So this is where the tar comes
from then. Nothing new of course. It just confirms theory.

It's obvious that this process can only be stopped by cooling the fuel down
(which isn't possible in a gasifier); it doesn't need air oxygen, and it's
an exothermical process (or it couldn't keep on vaporising all that tar,
for minutes after I took it out the microwave oven).

This phenomenon however has implications for the dynamic behaviour of a
gasifier. On heavy load, the gasifier produces heat, which dries and heats
the fuel to the point of self-carbonisation, but once the fuel has been
heated enough, /it won't stop producing tar fumes/. The flow of tar fumes
will then prevent the gasifier from sucking in air to either combust the
tar fumes, or keep the hearth temperature high enough to, if this is a
reality at all, crack the tars.

One perhaps somewhat paradoxal effect could be that a gasifier with
significant heat losses may have better dynamic behaviour than an "ideal"
gasifier. If the gasifier is so well insulated it simply cannot cool down
the carbonising fuel, the carbonisation process can't be stopped. If the
fuel is completely dry, there is also no water cooling the process, and
theoretically, it will go on until all available fuel is carbonised; like
dynamite in slow motion. ;) The wood will "explode" into smoke and charcoal,
so to speak. If there is moist in the fuel, the gasifier will instead turn
more (but not completely) into a water gas reactor when the load is stepped
down. This will cool down the hearth instead. (so will tar, I suppose.
Besides, carbonisation produces som 24 weight-percent of water, according
to a table in Hubendicks article:

1kg _dry_ wood heated to 400°C produces:
Charcoal: 0.38 kg with 81% carbon
Water: 0.24 kg
Tar: 0.16 kg
CO2: 0.09 kg
CO: 0.04 kg
H2: 0.04 kg
Acetum: 0.05 kg
Methanol: 0.01 kg

I think the solution must be to only heat "enough" of the fuel, not all of
it.

"Enough" should then be no more than such that the gasifier still can/will
suck in enough air and oxygen to keep the hearth temperature at an
acceptable level, i.e. producing significantly less "smoke" than the amount
of gases sucked away by the (idling) motor. If no air at all goes into the
process, the resulting gas will be the vapours in the table, i.e. 240g
steam, 160g tar, 90g CO2 etc... for each kg dry weight of fuel. The tar
leves will be tremendous. Without air going in, it won't be a producer gas
gasifier, rather a wood distillery, or (with plenty of water diluting the
other vapours) for a limited time, a water gas reactor.

So how can we heat just "enough" fuel at the time? "Enough" will vary
(lineary) with the load. At all loads, ideally, the gasifier should
carbonise fuel in the same pace it gasifies carbon. If self-carbonisation
only can be controlled by controlling temperature, temperature is what
needs to be controlled. (hmm. tautology of the day)

This is were Lutz' experiments come in handy, or rather the heat losses
from the, for our purposes luckily, hopelessly inefficient internal
combustion motor, come in handy:

Lutz circulated gases from and back to the fuel vessel. He cooled the
fumes, condensed steam, then heated them with exhaust gases to recapture
exhaust heat. So there we have a way of heating or cooling fuel at will.

Let's say we apply Lutz' devices to only a small portion of the fuel,
somewhere fairly close to the hearth. Lutz took out the gases at the lower
part of the fuel container, and put the dried & heated gases in at the top.
If both inlet and outlet are placed on the same level, close to the hearth,
we can heat and dry, or cool, a smaller portion of the fuel, and thus make
it easier to control the temperature of the fuel just before it enters the
hearth.

If we can control the temperature of that portion of the fuel, we can
control the carbonisation process, and by that, the amount of steam and
tar fumes generated from it. If the fuel is a bit too wet and cold, we can
dry it and heat it. If it is a bit too dry and hot and begin to
over-carbonise, i.e. "explode", we can cool it down.

We have three parameters to play with for actuators: Cooling, heating, and
flow. The minimum temperature is the outer temperature, and the maximum is
the exhaust gas temperature. We can cool the fuel all the way down
(theoretically) to the outer temperature, or heat it to the exhaust heat
temperature (again, theoretically). The former should be more than enough
to shut down carbonisation, and the latter (a few hundered °C) enough to
dry fuel and heat it to carbonisation temperature if necessary. We also
have a more or less constant heat flow from the hearth, assuming the hearth
has constant temperature, which is what is preferred.(?)

Lutz mentioned that he didn't get any improvement above a certain level of
gas flow though the condenser/heater (60 m³/h), but rather a degradation.
It seems to me he increased the flow to a point where the temperature was
about the same throughout the condenser/heater/fuel container system, and
"gained" only heat losses. He didn't mention dynamics. But then, process
control theory wasn't developed in 1941.

So, we can alter the temperature and moist level of the fuel, and we can add
temperature sensors at the outlet and inlet, to keep track of heat removed
and/or added. Maybe, if necessary, moist level of the fuel (at least a mean
value for all the fuel present above the hot zones), could be measured by
looking at the electrical properties of the fuel. The rest is algorithms
implemented in software on any plain cheap micro controller, plus some
valves with servos. (I don't know; maybe I ought to draw a simple outline
of how I picture it?)

What's missing, however, is data. For instance:

How, and how fast, does heat travel through the fuel from the hearth?
How, and how fast, is heat transferred to and from the fuel in a
condenser/heater system like Lutz used?
At what rate are tar fumes produced during carbonisation? How much, and at
what rate is heat generated during self-carbonisation?
How will the flow of tar fumes and steam affect reactions in the hearth?
All this data could be determined by experiments.

I believe it should be possible to build a fairly accurate model of the
dynamics in a gasifier. It doesn't have to be exceedingly precise; having
transfer functions of the correct order and time scale for the sub systems
and what parameters they depend upon would be coming a long way; find which
parameters are integrating, which are dervates, which are linear... It's
necessary to have some sort of primitive model to design an adequate
control system for it.

PS.
Speaking of control theory: I discovered today that T. Källe (inventor of
the Källe-gasifier), whom expressed an interest in dynamics in his article,
indeed was the founder, by a donation, of the professorship in control
theory at Chalmers Institute of Technology, Gothenburg, in 1956. That's
how new control theory is as a field of engineering science. They lacked
the tools in the first half of the previous century. Heaviside, Nyquist
et.al. was working with the mathematics for it in the 1930's, it made its
way into electrical engineering fairly fast, but took a couple of decades
to be embraced by other fields, and the final touch in transform theory
wasn't due until the 1970's or so. We have a pretty good mathematical
toolbox nowadays, and cheap "slaves" for doing the hard labour of tedious
numerical calculations; fast, in real-time.

Joacim
- >>
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BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

December 2000 Biomass Cooking Stoves Archive