October 2000 Gasification Archive

For more information to help people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions, please see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org

From elk at net2000ke.com Fri Oct 6 07:12:44 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (KARSTAD)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: Burning 250,000 tonnes of Cocoa
Message-ID: <200010061125.OAA23670@net2000ke.com>

Hi;

Plans are afoot for 250,000 tonnes of cocoa beans to be burnt within the next year by the African producers Nigeria, Ghana, Ivory Coast and Camaroon (-Reuters, Yaunde, 6/10/00).

This is in an effort to boost the global price of cocoa in the face of oversupply. West Africa has apparently been taking lessons from the EU.

The doomed beans will be assembled in a few strtegic locals prior to being incinerated.... couldn't somebody use this concentrated biomass for energy? Gasification would be easy if the equipment was at hand, or a good 70,000 tonnes of charcoal briquettes could be made from this.... enough, for example, to supply 2.5 million inhabitants of West African city with cooking charcoal sufficient for two weeks.

Waste of this scale should be offset by some sort of effort at logical recycling or alternate use- especially when it occurs in developing countries and we HAVE the technology.

elk

From heat-win at cwcom.net Fri Oct 6 10:35:28 2000
From: heat-win at cwcom.net (T J Stubbing)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: Burning 250,000 tonnes of Cocoa
In-Reply-To: <200010061125.OAA23670@net2000ke.com>
Message-ID: <39DDE7E8.E4688B2F@cwcom.net>

Dear Elk and Stovers,
I spent the years 1954 to 1960 buying cocoa in Nigeria for one of the
Unilever companies, so I know how much effort goes into producing it.
Your charcoal making answer is a good one, but as it is well and truly
sun dried why not simply burn it in power stations instead of coal, thus
benefiting from the pyrolysis gases' energy as well as that which would
be left in the charcoal?
An even better answer would be to manufacture chocolate from it and
ship it to the starving millions in areas such as Ethiopa, Eritrea and
Sudan.
Regards,
Thomas J Stubbing
KARSTAD wrote:
Hi;
Plans are afoot for 250,000 tonnes of cocoa beans to be burnt within
the next year by the African producers Nigeria, Ghana, Ivory Coast and
Camaroon (-Reuters, Yaunde, 6/10/00).
This is in an effort to boost the global price of cocoa in the face
of oversupply. West Africa has apparently been taking lessons from
the EU.
The doomed beans will be assembled in a few strtegic locals prior to
being incinerated.... couldn't somebody use this concentrated biomass for
energy? Gasification would be easy if the equipment was at hand, or a good
70,000 tonnes of charcoal briquettes could be made from this.... enough,
for example, to supply 2.5 million inhabitants of West African city
with cooking charcoal sufficient for two weeks.
Waste of this scale should be offset by some sort of effort at logical
recycling or alternate use- especially when it occurs in developing countries
and we HAVE the technology.
elk

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Oct 9 09:59:41 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: Coal for cooking...
Message-ID: <78.b30be4a.2713282e@cs.com>

Dear Ron et al:

If we are trying to improve cooking for the 3 billion people yet to be served
we should certainly consider (low sulfur?) coal. It burns very well in our
turbo stove.

If we are purists who don't want to have anything to do with fossil fuel, let
them breathe smoke or spend hours collecting wood.

TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 9/27/00 5:27:46 PM Mountain Daylight Time, larcon@sni.net
writes:

<<
Stovers:
The following just in that brings in a new topic - the use of coal
for cooking. I also just turned down a commercial coal query - but this
one makes claims about biomass-fueled stoves that certainly warrant
discussion on this list.

Kirk Smith: Has your work corroborated the claims made here about coal
being superior to wood?

Steven: Our list is primarily interested in finding improvements to simple
(ie three-stone) stoves used in developing countries. I am pretty sure
you are referring to results in modern well-enclosed (expensive) stoves -
but I was not aware that there was much use of coal in this market, Could
you please send in another message clarifying on the sources of your data -
and whether you have seen anything on much simpler (probably not enclosed)
cook stoves. In particular, there seems to be use of coal in China for
simple stoves. Do you have any data on that topic?

Thanks for your input. Emissions are a key part of what is driving stoves
activities these days. There are many different efforts on this list - and
I guess that little has been done to compare with coal. It will be
interesting to see what your posting brings forth.

Ron

>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Oct 9 09:59:55 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: firewalking question
Message-ID: <27.be24519.2713282a@cs.com>

Dear Richard:

I applaud your effort to de-mystify fire walking - and any other illusions.
They are based on people's intuitive expectations and intuition isn't correct
all of the time. When they are wrong, mystics can prey on them (and
themselves) i good conscience. Let me propose an explanation and simple test
to demonstrate it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Our fingers are good meters of thermal conductivity. Touch hot wood and it
feels warm. Touch hot metal and you get burned. Why?

Wood is a poor conductor of heat. You can sit your fanny on a wooden bench
in a sauna at the boiling point of water and not get burned, since your fanny
removes heat from the interface faster than the wood can deliver it. So the
wood is cooled at the interface more than the skin heats.

Aluminum is a good conductor of heat. DON'T sit on an aluminum bench at 100C
or you'll be badly burned. The aluminum carries heat to the interface faster
than your fanny can remove it.

Now for the fire walking: Charcoal is a very poor heat conductor. Your skin
is "water cooled" by the blood circulating just below the surface. So the
incandescent charcoal interface is immediately cooled close to the
temperature of your blood and presto, no burn. The heat is produced by
combustion of the charcoal at the surface, so contact with your skin denies
oxygen and it stops burning instantly and is quenched. (Do pictures show
cold footprints at the instant the foot leaves? Can you tell me if this
experiment ever leaves any marks at all? )
~~~~~~~~~
Here's a simple test. I have a Taylor oven thermometer from the hardware
store that has a 1/8 inch diameter sensor, sharpened at the end that you
insert into meat, bread etc. Insert it into a damp sponge (to simulate your
moist flesh) and press up against the hot charcoal. I doubt if you will see
an increase of more than 10 C.

Now drill a hole almost to the surface of a piece of cold charcoal (poor
conductor) and press it against the hot charcoal. Should heat to 300-400 C.
(Don't burn out the sensor.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You don't need to understand the following in detail to understand the
effect, but this is the scientific explanation:

Chemical engineers use a "dimensionless number" called the Biot number. It
compares the heat transfer rate TO a surface to the rate at which heat is
removed FROM the surface.

Nbiot = (Heat in)/(heat out) = h r/k

where h is the heat transferred TO the surface (watts/m2-degree), r is the
radius or size of the particle and k is the thermal conductivity of the
surface (watts/m2-(degree/meter)).

When Nbiot << 1, the object being heated will be almost a constant
temperature and slowly come to the temperature of the source. (Flame heating
a piece of copper, high thermal conductivity, k = 4 W/cm-C).

When Nbiot >>1, the interface temperature will be the same as the heat source
while the
inside is still cold. (Flame heating a piece of charcoal, very low thermal
conductivity, k = .016 W/cm-C, 250 times smaller than copper.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I hope you can try this and report (or I'll make tests if you wan't to pursue
it). People have been puzzled and misled too long.

Yours truly, TOM REED THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION

In a message dated 9/21/00 9:07:03 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
psyqrw@herts.ac.uk writes:

<<
hi there
sorry to write to you out of the blue. I have recently seen your name on
the web and read your contributions to a debate on conductivity and
firewalking.

I am a psychologist in britain and I recently organised a very long
firewalk for the BBC. We burnt about 60 tons of wood and made a bed about
50ft long. The surface temp was about 650C, and I know that skin burns at
about 55C. Is there anyway of predicting how many steps our walkers should
have been able to walk across the bed before getting burnt - i.e., some
sort of formula from the thermal conductivity of charcoal and skin?
It would be great to have such a prediction as many or our walkers believed
that some paranormal force was protecting them and I would like to
demonstrate that it was just science at work.
Feel free to circulate this to anyone/any list that you think might be able
to help.
Hope you can help and look forward to hearing from you.
Best
Richard

Dr Richard Wiseman
Psychology Department
University of Hertfordshire
http://phoenix.herts.ac.uk/PWRU/RWhomepage.html
Direct tel: 01707 284628
Direct fax: 01707 285073
Mobile: 0779 0905219
>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Oct 10 12:32:32 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: GAS-L: CO from Wood Gasifiers Stoves
Message-ID: <b8.c447cea.27149d8f@cs.com>

Dear All:

We agree with Alex English's assessment of the possibility of CO poisoning in
the Turbo Stove. Very low when burning the volatiles because they are so
smoky; low in burning charcoal because there is so little available.

Thanks for the experiment Alex.

HOWEVER: We intend to insist that any installation of the Turbo Stove should
have a simple hood leading outside over the cooking area. Food odors, and
particularly smoking grease isn't the best thing to breathe either. The heat
of cooking will carry the odors (and possible CO) outside without needing a
fan.

Onward... TOM REED CPC/BEF

In a message dated 9/16/00 10:37:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
english@adan.kingston.net writes:

<<
Dear Mike,

Tom Reed is indeed promoting wood gas stoves for general public use.
Aside from the fact that cooking stoves are usually well monitored
compared to heating stoves, his design has a few features which make
accidental poisoning from Carbon monoxide less likely than some
arrangements. The fuel is lit on top and fuel carbonization proceeds
from the top down producing a tar rich "smoky" gas which supports a
stable flame. With a loss of flame, which could occur at very low
firing rates or if the fan quit, the smoke would quickly alert the
user to take corrective action. The risky time is after the fuel has
been carbonized and is gasifying from the bottom up. Loss of flame
will only occur at this stage if the fan goes off. At this point
there is likely less than 100 grams of charcoal available to produce
CO.

I decided to take a stove at this stage, with the fan off, and the
hot charcoal from wood pellets still glowing, and place it into a
completely shut, but not sealed, van. The CO level in the van, 4
cubic metres of space, rose to a peak of 140 ppmv in twenty minutes
and slowly dropped to 40ppmv after about two hours. By which time the
charcoal was cool enough to touch. Larger, self insulating, piles of
charcoal pellets can smoulder for days.

It seems unlikely that anyone would use this stove in such a confined
space. It also seems unlikely that a ventilated kitchen
would build up lethal levels of CO from this stove when used with
non charcoal fuel. One way to reduce this possibility
further would be to place the lower air supply such that there
remains some small quantity of pyrolysing fuel in the bottom until
most of the charcoal has been consumed, thus producing the smoke
warning when the fan quits and the flame goes out.

It should be a simple matter to do a field study of this problem, and
it should be done.

Regards,
Alex English

Mike Norris wrote;
I have a general question about gasification for a household
appliance such as a cookstove. I appreciate that gasification will
produce a clean smokeless flame that will have much lower toxic
emissions than a traditional wood fire. However, I am quite
concerned about CO poisoning in the event of a flame-out or after the
burner is shutdown. The evolved gases are 10%+ CO and extremely
toxic. Extensive precautions would be taken in a laboratory if
personnel were working with such a toxic gas. I've read that some 13
people died in the first 2 years of W.W.II in Sweden from using wood
gasifiers and a couple of researchers died in the eighties. What can
be done to build a real product that would gasify biomasswithout
exposing consumers to CO poisoning? One has to consider malfunctions
of the hardware and foolish use by the consumer. Is it reasonable to
advocate gasification for general public use or should it's use be
limited to industrialized settings with trained operators?

respectfully
Mike Norris >>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Oct 10 12:32:37 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: GAS-L: CO from Wood Gasifiers Stoves
Message-ID: <33.b379c6b.27149d8d@cs.com>

Dear James et al:

Nighthawk makes a number of CO meters in the US for $30-$60 and dwe have used
them with confidence.

However, be warned that they detect other gases as well, such as methane.
That could be negative or a positive feature, depending on application.....

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 9/17/00 4:41:22 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
j.joyce@sri.org.au writes:

<< I am just about to order a CO sensing fire detector from Tyco Services.
These units typically detect at 40ppm CO, but the industrial versions can
be set to trigger as low as 30ppm or as high as 70ppm. At $148 Australian
for a domestic style unit (or $80US)) I consider it pretty cheap insurance
for anyone experimenting with combustion or gasification.

James Joyce
Engineer
Sugar Research Institute
Mackay, Queensland
Australia

>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From shayden at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Oct 10 15:41:33 2000
From: shayden at NRCan.gc.ca (Hayden, Skip)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: Coal for cooking...
Message-ID: <31EC3D073B34D111BC6000805FBE3A8A010B2058@S0-BCC-X1>

There was a lot of work done on coal stove cooking in Western China in the
1980's. While in the rest of China, lung cancer among men (due to high
levels of cigarette smoking) was a major cause of death, in Western China,
where the women cooked with coal, women had an even higher rate of lung
cancer than men, EVEN THOUGH they did NOT smoke. The coal, having
indigenous PAH in its make-up, had very high levels of PAH emissions. It
should be recognized that venting cooking equipment was at a very primitive
state there. However, any significant combustion gas spillage from such
systems would be a prime cause for concern.

Skip Hayden
A.C.S. Hayden
Senior Research Scientist
Advanced Combustion Technologies
ETB/CETC
1 Haanel Drive
Ottawa, Canada K1A 1M1

Tel: (613) 996 3186
Fax: (613) 992 9335
e-mail: skip.hayden@nrcan.gc.ca

> ----------
> From: Reedtb2@cs.com[SMTP:Reedtb2@cs.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 9:54 AM
> To: larcon@sni.net; stoves@crest.org
> Subject: Coal for cooking...
>
> Dear Ron et al:
>
> If we are trying to improve cooking for the 3 billion people yet to be
> served
> we should certainly consider (low sulfur?) coal. It burns very well in
> our
> turbo stove.
>
> If we are purists who don't want to have anything to do with fossil fuel,
> let
> them breathe smoke or spend hours collecting wood.
>
> TOM REED BEF
>
> In a message dated 9/27/00 5:27:46 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> larcon@sni.net
> writes:
>
> <<
> Stovers:
> The following just in that brings in a new topic - the use of
> coal
> for cooking. I also just turned down a commercial coal query - but this
> one makes claims about biomass-fueled stoves that certainly warrant
> discussion on this list.
>
> Kirk Smith: Has your work corroborated the claims made here about coal
> being superior to wood?
>
> Steven: Our list is primarily interested in finding improvements to
> simple
> (ie three-stone) stoves used in developing countries. I am pretty sure
> you are referring to results in modern well-enclosed (expensive) stoves -
> but I was not aware that there was much use of coal in this market,
> Could
> you please send in another message clarifying on the sources of your data
> -
> and whether you have seen anything on much simpler (probably not
> enclosed)
> cook stoves. In particular, there seems to be use of coal in China for
> simple stoves. Do you have any data on that topic?
>
> Thanks for your input. Emissions are a key part of what is driving
> stoves
> activities these days. There are many different efforts on this list -
> and
> I guess that little has been done to compare with coal. It will be
> interesting to see what your posting brings forth.
>
> Ron
>
> >>
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From willing at mb.sympatico.ca Tue Oct 10 15:59:54 2000
From: willing at mb.sympatico.ca (Scott Willing)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: ECOHEAT wood stoves
Message-ID: <200010101956.e9AJtv621745@list1.mts.net>

Stovers,

With the Canadian heating season upon us, the local papers and
hardware stores have suddenly begun advertising a wood stove that
goes by the name of "ECOHEAT" (2500GL Series). The closest
match on my web search is a UK firm that, I'm confident, has
nothing to do with these stoves.

Looking a bit like a cheap barrel-conversion kit stove, they are
purportedly "glass-lined," never needing replacement gaskets,
firebrick, grills etc.. They're mid-priced, and, at around 70kg,
relatively light.

The ads claim glowing remarks from CSA.

Anyone know anything of these?

-smw
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Tue Oct 10 16:41:42 2000
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: Burning 250,000 tonnes of Cocoa
In-Reply-To: <200010061125.OAA23670@net2000ke.com>
Message-ID: <7tt6us0di3544r7gtd2uoft5ig8bu5hul1@4ax.com>

On Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:02:19 +0300, ELK wrote:

>Hi;
>
>Plans are afoot for 250,000 tonnes of cocoa beans to be burnt within the
>next year by the African producers Nigeria, Ghana, Ivory Coast and Camaroon
>(-Reuters, Yaunde, 6/10/00).
>
>This is in an effort to boost the global price of cocoa in the face of
>oversupply. West Africa has apparently been taking lessons from the EU.

One of my early school lessons was about the Brazilians maintaining
the world price of coffee by burning the surplus in their steam
trains.

In the world of GATT I imagine this behaviour is not approved of.
Other cartels seem to practice this to some benefit so it does seem a
good ploy if the oligarchies concerned do control the production.

In countries without the administration to control intervention buying
I imagine bringing the surplus to a point and burning it is a
necessary consequence of being seen to be toeing the line by the rest
of the cartel. I assume the western nations are the cash markets for
the cocoa, as such it is a luxury good which tends to have a highly
elastic price-demand. Also the bulk of the cost to the western
consumer is in the packaging and retailing of the product, hence a
large swing in the raw material price will not materially effect the
consumer but it will benefit the exporter (whether this will be
reflected to the grower is more debatable).

If it were possible to prove an acceptable chain of custody from the
cocoa producer to the use as fuel then I imagine there is no great
leap from charring sawdust to charring cocoa beans of similar moisture
content. I would say that I have charred many things and none produce
a char which is as manageable on the stove as wood.

AJH

The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Tue Oct 10 18:40:09 2000
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: Burning 250,000 tonnes of Cocoa
In-Reply-To: <200010061125.OAA23670@net2000ke.com>
Message-ID: <hu57ussd4n1vj5qkvbftp8aitpm7qb17po@4ax.com>

On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:37:09 +0100, I wrote:

> I assume the western nations are the cash markets for
>the cocoa, as such it is a luxury good which tends to have a highly
>elastic price-demand.

Despite it being the only language I know I have to concede I do not
communicate with it very well:
I was trying to imply that the reduction of supply may not have the
desired effect, as there are alternative "candies", in the same way as
a reduction in the supply of liquid fuels has, but this may be offset
by the fact that the raw material cost is a small part of the cost to
the consumer.
AJH
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From jmstevenson at powersurfr.com Tue Oct 10 19:20:47 2000
From: jmstevenson at powersurfr.com (Jim Stevenson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: ECOHEAT wood stoves
In-Reply-To: <200010101956.e9AJtv621745@list1.mts.net>
Message-ID: <39E3A446.99E90DC3@powersurfr.com>

Here are some links I found. None are real solid bingos.

http://www.eeca.govt.nz/content/EW_news/57april/57eco.htm
http://www.crha.com/chs99/rec00001/r0000241.htm
http://www.haltonbusiness.com/bussoppjvent.htm

Regards,
Jim Stevenson

Scott Willing wrote:

> Stovers,
>
> With the Canadian heating season upon us, the local papers and
> hardware stores have suddenly begun advertising a wood stove that
> goes by the name of "ECOHEAT" (2500GL Series). The closest
> match on my web search is a UK firm that, I'm confident, has
> nothing to do with these stoves.
>
> Looking a bit like a cheap barrel-conversion kit stove, they are
> purportedly "glass-lined," never needing replacement gaskets,
> firebrick, grills etc.. They're mid-priced, and, at around 70kg,
> relatively light.
>
> The ads claim glowing remarks from CSA.
>
> Anyone know anything of these?
>
> -smw
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From larcon at sni.net Tue Oct 10 22:57:02 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: [bamboo-plantations] bamboo charcoal
Message-ID: <v01540b02b608f76415cd@[204.131.233.39]>

Bamboo list members:

This is my first message to this list - from someone interested in
bamboo (because of an interest in a wet part of Ethiopia where it grows
profusely and in very large sizes), but more so in charcoal.

I have been developing a charcoal-making stove, and am anxious to
try it out with bamboo (which is not common in Colorado in the USA). (It
is probably here, but I haven't seen it. We are pretty dry)

Because of this combined charcoal-stove interest, I became the
volunteer coordinator of a list (found at "www.crest.org") called "stoves".
Searching the web for "charcoal" will get a lot of hits on our list.

My guess is that the subject of charcoal making is sufficiently
far off the usual bamboo topics that we should discuss this on the "stoves"
list site instead of on this list.

We are having one of the few international stoves conferences in
many years beginning November 19 in Pune, India. The subject of
small-scale charcoal-making will certainly be prominent. The coordinator
of the conference is Dr. Priya Karve <karve@wmi.co.in>. I am pretty sure
she is the daughter of the Dr. A.D. Karve <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in> who has
contributed significantly to this list. I will be meeting both for the
first time, but am pretty sure that we can report on yield, pollution,
costs, etc by early December, as a result of tests made at, or reported on,
at the stoves conference.

I am sending this message on to the stoves list, and report back
from time to time as something seems to be of special interest as relates
to bamboo.

I am signing up "bamboo@optusnet.com.au" to our list. If our list seems
of interest to others please let me know.

To "stoves" list members: I hope the above will be clear after reading the
following. Anyone able to send in any direct results on bamboo and
charcoal making??

To both Dr. Karves: - Let's make sure that we have time to address these
issues next month.

Ron Larson <larcon@sni.net>

>Hi all,
>I am currently researching techniques for bamboo charcoal production
>and am trying to combine this production with using the gasses thus
>generated to preserve bamboo culms and make them more insect and
>fungus resistent. In essence I am trying to combine the ZERI
>foundation (Bamboo preserves itself) and the generation of charcoal
>at
>the same time.I would be greatful if I could access more technical
>data or even a diagram of a bamboo charcoal oven.
>
>Thank You Kind regards
>
>
>-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
>eGroups eLerts
>It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/971160220/
>---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
>
>INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST CAN BE FOUND AT:
>http://www.egroups.com/group/bamboo-plantations

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Oct 11 06:21:09 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: Coal for cooking...
Message-ID: <56.1bd73e3.27159820@cs.com>

Dear Skip et al:

In installing biomass or coal stoves we should always insist on a vent over
the cookspace, since not only fuel emissions, but cooking vapors can be bad
for the lungs - and the aesthetics of the home.

Can anyone comment on the minimum size and shape for a cooking hood vent?

Yours truly, TOM REED

In a message dated 10/10/00 1:38:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
shayden@NRCan.gc.ca writes:

<<
There was a lot of work done on coal stove cooking in Western China in the
1980's. While in the rest of China, lung cancer among men (due to high
levels of cigarette smoking) was a major cause of death, in Western China,
where the women cooked with coal, women had an even higher rate of lung
cancer than men, EVEN THOUGH they did NOT smoke. The coal, having
indigenous PAH in its make-up, had very high levels of PAH emissions. It
should be recognized that venting cooking equipment was at a very primitive
state there. However, any significant combustion gas spillage from such
systems would be a prime cause for concern.

Skip Hayden
A.C.S. Hayden
Senior Research Scientist
Advanced Combustion Technologies
ETB/CETC >>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From antal at wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu Wed Oct 11 14:16:20 2000
From: antal at wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (Michael Antal)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: [bamboo-plantations] bamboo charcoal
In-Reply-To: <v01540b02b608f76415cd@[204.131.233.39]>
Message-ID: <Pine.HPX.4.03.10010110805080.11846-100000@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu>

Dear Ron: in a paper which is now in press we report measurements of charcoal
and fixed carbon yields from bamboo in our high-yield charcoal reactor.
For the information of all our readers, the charcoal yield is 45.9% (with
VM=27%), and the fixed carbon yield is 32.1%. In the paper we show that
bamboo is one of three species tested so far that offers the theoretical
yield of carbon from biomass. The other species are Kukui nut shell and
Leucaena. I am delighted that you have contacted the bamboo community.
Bamboo is one of the best biomass species available on this planet.
Regards, Michael.

On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Ronal W. Larson wrote:

> Bamboo list members:
>
> This is my first message to this list - from someone interested in
> bamboo (because of an interest in a wet part of Ethiopia where it grows
> profusely and in very large sizes), but more so in charcoal.
>
> I have been developing a charcoal-making stove, and am anxious to
> try it out with bamboo (which is not common in Colorado in the USA). (It
> is probably here, but I haven't seen it. We are pretty dry)
>
> Because of this combined charcoal-stove interest, I became the
> volunteer coordinator of a list (found at "www.crest.org") called "stoves".
> Searching the web for "charcoal" will get a lot of hits on our list.
>
> My guess is that the subject of charcoal making is sufficiently
> far off the usual bamboo topics that we should discuss this on the "stoves"
> list site instead of on this list.
>
> We are having one of the few international stoves conferences in
> many years beginning November 19 in Pune, India. The subject of
> small-scale charcoal-making will certainly be prominent. The coordinator
> of the conference is Dr. Priya Karve <karve@wmi.co.in>. I am pretty sure
> she is the daughter of the Dr. A.D. Karve <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in> who has
> contributed significantly to this list. I will be meeting both for the
> first time, but am pretty sure that we can report on yield, pollution,
> costs, etc by early December, as a result of tests made at, or reported on,
> at the stoves conference.
>
> I am sending this message on to the stoves list, and report back
> from time to time as something seems to be of special interest as relates
> to bamboo.
>
> I am signing up "bamboo@optusnet.com.au" to our list. If our list seems
> of interest to others please let me know.
>
> To "stoves" list members: I hope the above will be clear after reading the
> following. Anyone able to send in any direct results on bamboo and
> charcoal making??
>
> To both Dr. Karves: - Let's make sure that we have time to address these
> issues next month.
>
> Ron Larson <larcon@sni.net>
>
>
>
>
> >Hi all,
> >I am currently researching techniques for bamboo charcoal production
> >and am trying to combine this production with using the gasses thus
> >generated to preserve bamboo culms and make them more insect and
> >fungus resistent. In essence I am trying to combine the ZERI
> >foundation (Bamboo preserves itself) and the generation of charcoal
> >at
> >the same time.I would be greatful if I could access more technical
> >data or even a diagram of a bamboo charcoal oven.
> >
> >Thank You Kind regards
> >
> >
> >-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
> >eGroups eLerts
> >It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/971160220/
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
> >
> >INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST CAN BE FOUND AT:
> >http://www.egroups.com/group/bamboo-plantations
>
> Ronal W. Larson, PhD
> 21547 Mountsfield Dr.
> Golden, CO 80401, USA
> 303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
> larcon@sni.net
>
>
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Fri Oct 13 09:16:48 2000
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: BFCS-2000
Message-ID: <ss1eussvld6mk69i7ghi7vp2vmu4nuimsk@4ax.com>

Ronal et al

I imagine you are getting ready to go to India? I hope it is a
fruitful conference and you will publish the papers on the internet,
has Alex submitted his abstract yet? Will Yuri be attending?

I will not be there but wish you all well and offer my UK perspective
on the conversion of biomass to power:

consider sitting in the 747 cruising at ??? thousands of feet at
550mph, contemplating 2kW(t) cooking stoves, with a view of four
engines delivering 70MW each. At the same time the best biomass power
station we have coming on line in UK is 8MW(e) and is in part limited
by the amount of material that can be delivered to it in our strangely
shaped island.

AJH

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sun Oct 15 09:06:42 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: pits and stones from fruit
Message-ID: <3b.b2f6405.271b05f3@cs.com>

Dear Mathijs Kämink et al:

A decade ago I consulted on a gasifier project involving hundred of tons of
cherry pits in Michigan. GREAT FUEL.

Our new Turbo Stove will burn chips and twigs and many other things, but the
time of gasification is proportional to the density of the fuel. High
density fuels such as wood pellets, fruit pits nut shells etc. do
particularly well and are widely available.

Gasifiers also appreciate having a dense fuel and our gasifier burns coconut
shells very well.

There is not much competition for these special fuels since they often don't
fit large combustion devices.

Yours truly, TOM REED

In a message dated 10/13/00 1:52:12 AM Mountain Daylight Time, kamink@nbsd.nl
writes:

<< Dear colleagues,

Who knows something about stones/pits from fruits like cherries,
peach/nectarines and grapes? Is there a real "de-pitting" process, so is
there a real source of pits and stones available?

And are these pits/stones a good source for energy production? Who has
access to caracteristics (caloric value, ash etc) of pits and stones of the
fruits mentioned above or perhaps other fruits I did not mention but are
also interesting?

ing Mathijs Kämink
Analyst
>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From larcon at sni.net Sun Oct 15 19:49:46 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: Fwd'g Flanders: [iaq] CO2 as an indicator of ventilation
Message-ID: <v01540b05b60fdcc7c921@[204.131.233.13]>

Stovers: Another useful contribution from stoves list member Cathy Flanders:

Cathy - Thanks. Please keep these coming.

Ron

>From: >Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:06:43 EDT
>Subject: Fwd: [iaq] CO2 as an indicator of ventilation - Dave Bearg's Reply
>To: larcon@sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>Hi Ronal -
>
>Hope you are well!
>
>Thought possibly some members of the stoves group might be interested in this
>thread on the IAQ List.
>
>
>Regards -
> Cathy Flanders <Rkfabf@aol.com>

> IAQ List Manager & Moderator
> E-Mail: iaq-owner@onelist.com
> Fax # 781-394-8288
> Personal E-Mail: RKFABF@aol.com
> IAQ List - Home
> http://www.onelist.com/community/iaq
> Candle Soot & Lead Wicks
> http://www.leadwicks.com/
> CANDLESOOT & INDOOR AIR QUALITY
> http://candlesoot.com/
>

>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:47:59 -0400
>Reply-To: iaq@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [iaq] CO2 as an indicator of ventilation - Dave Bearg's Reply
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Kathy
>
>There are two that I am aware of, and both are combustion related, of
>course:
>
>1. Many combustion heating appliances (furnaces, water heaters,
>fireplaces, wood stoves, etc.) spill combustion gases into the home if the
>combination of the appliance, the flue (in the chimney) and the house and
>its ventilation systems are not working together instead of at cross
>purposes. Many houses and small buildings can be better chimneys than the
>chimney that the appliance is connected to, and the best chimney wins.
>People then live in a chimney. Since the C02 content of combustion gases is
>in many the tens of thousands of ppm, even with significant dilution the
>building CO2 concentration can get quite high. This is a common but not well
>understood problem in many houses and small buildings. It also happens in
>some large buildings, but less frequently. Carbon monoxide concentrations
>are usually low in these cases, but can be high if the appliance is badly
>out of tune, or the appliance ingests its own spillage. Note that space
>heaters almost always spill directly into the indoor air and can be the
>cause of high C02 if the building ventilation rates are low.
>2. Combustion gases drawn in from parked or idling vehicles can cause
>high CO2 readings in buildings if their ventilation systems are not
>providing sufficient air exchange with the outside (or if it is the
>ventilation intake that is the source of the CO2 pollution). Carbon monoxide
>can also be very high in these cases.
>
>Jim H. White
>SSAL
>
>-----------Original Message-------------------------------------
>
>From: Mcsei@aol.com <Mcsei@aol.com>
>Subject: Re: [iaq] CO2 as an indicator of ventilation - Dave Bearg's Reply
>>
>>People are the usual source of C02...but what if "documents" state that
>>people are NOT the source of the CO2?
>>
>>Where is one to look for the source of the extremely high levels of C02?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Kathy Reilly
>
>
>To respond to this post on the List, or or any post contained in the IAQ
>List Digest, send your message to: <A
>HREF="mailto:iaq@egroups.com">IAQ@egroups.com</A> or you can post on-line by
>going to: <A HREF="http://www.egroups.com/post/iaq">IAQ List - Post
>on-line</A>.
>
>*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>*INTERESTING LINK FOR THE WEEK:
>
><A HREF="http://www.iaqa.org/index.htm"> Indoor Air Quality Association
>(IAQA) Home Page</A> -
>
>"The Indoor Air Quality Association (IAQA) is a nonprofit,
>multi-disciplined organization, dedicated to promoting the exchange of indoor
>environmental information, through education and research, for the safety and
>well being of the general public.
>
>Membership in the Indoor Air Quality Association is beneficial to: HVAC
>Practitioners, Design Engineers, Microbiologists, Environmental Consultants,
>Industrial Hygienists, Building & Facilities Managers, Attorneys,
>Manufacturers Reps and many others in related fields."
>
>For membership information:
>
>Indoor Air Quality Association, Inc.
>10400 Connecticut Avenue, Suite 510
>Kensington, MD 20895
>Phone: (301) 962-3805 Fax: (301) 962-3806
>E-mail: iaqa@aol.com
>
>*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Sun Oct 15 19:49:49 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: Forwarding Flanders: WHO Estimates of Indoor Air Pollution
Message-ID: <v01540b06b60fdf4b606c@[204.131.233.13]>

Cathy thanks again. This indeed is helpful.

Ron

>From: Rkfabf@aol.com
>Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:17:22 EDT
>Subject: WHO Estimates One Billion People in Danger of Indoor Air Pollution
>To: larcon@sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>Hello Ronal -
>
>I understand you are in the midst of preparing for a trip to India, or
>perhaps have already departed...in any event I wish you God's speed on your
>journey.
>
>Thought perhaps this might be of interest to the Stoves subscribers...I'll
>leave this up to you. Perhaps some of these staggering figures can be
>employed when Stoves members are preparing proposals for alternative fuel
>source research funding.
>
>
>As Always, Warmest Regards -
> Cathy Flanders
> IAQ List Manager & Moderator
> E-Mail: iaq-owner@onelist.com
> Fax # 781-394-8288
> Personal E-Mail: RKFABF@aol.com
> IAQ List - Home
> http://www.onelist.com/community/iaq
> Candle Soot & Lead Wicks
> http://www.leadwicks.com/
> CANDLESOOT & INDOOR AIR QUALITY
> http://candlesoot.com/
>
>
>WHO Estimates One Billion People in Danger of Indoor Air Pollution
>
>DAKAR, Senegal (PANA) (Panafrican News Agency, September 14, 2000) - As many
>as one billion people, mostly women and children, are regularly exposed to
>levels of indoor air pollution exceeding WHO guidelines by up to 100 times,
>a report by the UN agency has disclosed.
>
>The startling statistic was revealed at a WHO strategy meeting on Air
>Quality and Health held in Geneva this week.
>
>Air pollution is a major environmental health problem affecting about one-
>sixth of the world's population in both developed and developing countries.
>
>"This is a truly global concern involving ambient air quality in cities as
>well as indoor air quality including the workplace, in both rural and urban
>areas," WHO said in a statement.
>
>The highest air pollution exposures is said to occur in the indoor
>environment, particularly in developing countries, with cooking and heating
>with solid fuels - wood, coal, dung, crop residues and charcoal - still
>occurring for over half the world's population.
>
>The report said "a deadly combination of solid fuels, inefficient stoves and
>poor ventilation triggers off a complex mix of health damaging pollutants in
>homes."
>
>It noted that in India, where 80 percent of households use solid fuel, there
>are estimates that half a million children die annually from indoor air
>pollution, especially from acute respiratory infections.
>
>The figure for sub-Saharan Africa is roughly the same, while in Latin
>American countries, where one-quarter of households use solid fuels, it is
>said that some 30,000 people die each year from acute respiratory infections
>attributable to indoor air quality.
>
>In fact, it is estimated that nearly three-fifths of the total global
>exposure to particulate matter, one of the most ubiquitous air pollutants,
>occurs in the rural areas of developing countries.
>
>World-wide, this translates into as many as three million deaths a year, and
>as is always the case, it is the world's poorest people who suffer most.
>
>These "people face a cocktail of risk factors of which air pollution is just
>one, others include malnutrition, unsafe water and poor health care
>infrastructure," the report added.
>
>It revealed that malnutrition, unsafe water, and use of solid fuels indoors,
>together cause over one-quarter of all deaths in the least developed
>countries.
>
>Children are said to be of particular concern, being especially vulnerable
>to high levels of air pollution.
>
>The Global Burden of Disease study conducted by WHO in 1990 shows that 30
>percent of the estimated number of deaths from all diseases occur before 15
>years of age, but for acute respiratory diseases, the figure is twice as
>high.
>
>A WHO Task-Force on the Protection of Children's environmental Health has
>been created to address these problems.
>
>But despite increasing knowledge about harmful health effects of air
>pollution, preventive action is said to be rather slow.
>
>According to Michael Repacholi, WHO co-ordinator, Occupational and
>Environmental Health, "WHO would like to provide its 191 member-states with
>irrefutable evidence that air pollution causes disproportionately heavy
>burden of disease."
>
>"We'd like to provide them with a sound environmental policy framework and
>actions applicable to different settings and to different socio-economic
>conditions," he added. "In short, we'd like to provide them with a proper
>strategy to eliminate avoidable air pollutants and thus reduce this disease
>burden in a cost-effective way."
>
>Copyright 2000 Panafrican News Agency. Distributed via Africa News Online.

From larcon at sni.net Sun Oct 15 19:49:59 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:40 2004
Subject: Forwarding matt on low cost stove/boiler
Message-ID: <v01540b08b60fe32f4a67@[204.131.233.13]>

Stovers - Any comments?

Matt - we on the stoves list will need a lot more data to commnet. There
is considerable attention now to air quality - how does your stove perform
in that area.

Please feel free to supply us more data on the design. What cost
are you projecting?

Ron

>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:54:54 +0200
>From: "Cybergate Computer (a division of Softgate)" <softgate@mweb.co.za>
>Subject: low cost stove/boiler
>To: owner-stoves@crest.org
>MIME-version: 1.0
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
>X-Priority: 3
>
>hi. I am currently working on a low running cost stove (here in africa) I
>have filed for a provisional patent. I am naturally not au fait with the
>American market.
>My product produced 186 degrees C steam which I still do not fully
>believe, 150Degrees would be easier to believe. However. would there be a
>use for this device in your highly technological country. The stove runs
>off approx 1llb of charcoal and anthracite will boil 5gallons of water in
>30mins. Any comment would be appreciated.
>regards
>Matt
>

From heat-win at cwcom.net Tue Oct 17 06:22:40 2000
From: heat-win at cwcom.net (T J Stubbing)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: [bamboo-plantations] bamboo charcoal
In-Reply-To: <v01540b02b608f76415cd@[204.131.233.39]>
Message-ID: <39EC2E25.4C7A071F@cwcom.net>

Dear All,

For your information, here in the UK we first built a small, 0.23 m3 capacity,
indirectly heated wood dryer/torrefier/charcoal maker with which we rapidly
produced indirectly cooled charcoal, mainly from wood but also from a bamboo
sample brought over from Nicaragua.

We now have a 1.8 m3 (around 1 tonne moist wood capacity), mobile, wood stove
heated and 12 volt battery powered unit in the stove of which we are cleanly
combusting the 'smoke', i.e. the pyrolysis gases when charcoal is made.

We are now embarking on further development of this concept internationally,
including the design of large scale, multi-chamber units in which some of the
pyrolysis gases' combustion energy will be utilised to dry the wood or bamboo
before it is converted to charcoal and the remainder of their energy used to
dry additional wood or other materials.

If I can help with the Ethiopian or any other charcoal making project please
let me know.

Regards,

Thomas J Stubbing
<http://www.dryers-airless.mcmail.com>

"Ronal W. Larson" wrote:

> Bamboo list members:
>
> This is my first message to this list - from someone interested in
> bamboo (because of an interest in a wet part of Ethiopia where it grows
> profusely and in very large sizes), but more so in charcoal.
>
> I have been developing a charcoal-making stove, and am anxious to
> try it out with bamboo (which is not common in Colorado in the USA). (It
> is probably here, but I haven't seen it. We are pretty dry)
>
> Because of this combined charcoal-stove interest, I became the
> volunteer coordinator of a list (found at "www.crest.org") called "stoves".
> Searching the web for "charcoal" will get a lot of hits on our list.
>
> My guess is that the subject of charcoal making is sufficiently
> far off the usual bamboo topics that we should discuss this on the "stoves"
> list site instead of on this list.
>
> We are having one of the few international stoves conferences in
> many years beginning November 19 in Pune, India. The subject of
> small-scale charcoal-making will certainly be prominent. The coordinator
> of the conference is Dr. Priya Karve <karve@wmi.co.in>. I am pretty sure
> she is the daughter of the Dr. A.D. Karve <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in> who has
> contributed significantly to this list. I will be meeting both for the
> first time, but am pretty sure that we can report on yield, pollution,
> costs, etc by early December, as a result of tests made at, or reported on,
> at the stoves conference.
>
> I am sending this message on to the stoves list, and report back
> from time to time as something seems to be of special interest as relates
> to bamboo.
>
> I am signing up "bamboo@optusnet.com.au" to our list. If our list seems
> of interest to others please let me know.
>
> To "stoves" list members: I hope the above will be clear after reading the
> following. Anyone able to send in any direct results on bamboo and
> charcoal making??
>
> To both Dr. Karves: - Let's make sure that we have time to address these
> issues next month.
>
> Ron Larson <larcon@sni.net>
>
> >Hi all,
> >I am currently researching techniques for bamboo charcoal production
> >and am trying to combine this production with using the gasses thus
> >generated to preserve bamboo culms and make them more insect and
> >fungus resistent. In essence I am trying to combine the ZERI
> >foundation (Bamboo preserves itself) and the generation of charcoal
> >at
> >the same time.I would be greatful if I could access more technical
> >data or even a diagram of a bamboo charcoal oven.
> >
> >Thank You Kind regards
> >
> >
> >-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
> >eGroups eLerts
> >It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/1/_/_/_/971160220/
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
> >
> >INFORMATION ABOUT THIS LIST CAN BE FOUND AT:
> >http://www.egroups.com/group/bamboo-plantations
>
> Ronal W. Larson, PhD
> 21547 Mountsfield Dr.
> Golden, CO 80401, USA
> 303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
> larcon@sni.net
>
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From amsebbit at techmuk.ac.ug Tue Oct 17 07:56:59 2000
From: amsebbit at techmuk.ac.ug (adam sebbit)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Stove Testing
Message-ID: <006801c03831$068c8800$1b0112ac@techmuk.ac.ug>

Dear Colleagues

I had address of a lady from Nairobi. She said that
she was very active in stove testing some time back. I lost her e-mail address .
She could me working in Kenyatta University ??

I would to get in contact with her.

Regards

A.M.Sebbit

------------------------------------------------------------------------Adam.M.SebbitMakerere
UniversityDepartment of Mechanical EngineeringP.O.Box 7062Kampala,
UGANDATel: 256 -41-541173 / 545029Cell
077-485803Fax: 256-41-542377

From amsebbit at techmuk.ac.ug Wed Oct 18 00:56:30 2000
From: amsebbit at techmuk.ac.ug (adam sebbit)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Stove Testing
Message-ID: <002b01c038c0$1a147b00$1b0112ac@techmuk.ac.ug>

Dear Dr.Beatrice

I am a student undertaking a post-graduate degree
in Makerere. I was assigned to test stoves for domestic use. ( charcoal &
firewood stoves)
I have questions regarding the
procedures and methodology.
Are you still in that area.

Regards

A.M.Sebbit

------------------------------------------------------------------------Adam.M.SebbitMakerere
UniversityDepartment of Mechanical EngineeringP.O.Box 7062Kampala,
UGANDATel: 256 -41-541173 / 545029Cell
077-485803Fax: 256-41-542377

From larcon at sni.net Wed Oct 18 14:17:39 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Forwarding Pinto on briquetting:
Message-ID: <v01540b00b6138eb85f94@[204.131.233.18]>

Stovers: Today, David Pinto sent this following message:

David: Look back through our archives - you may find some suppliers of
briquetting machines - or possibly someone will respond.

Best of luck. Please let me know if you would like to become a list member.

>
>Browsing throught the net i have come across your e-mail, i am extremely
>interested in the briquette equipment used to make charcoal. I am from
>Malawi and we have a serious problem with a lack of fuel wood as the treese
>are now dwindiling in numbers. I have began research in this area and found
>readily available raw material in the form of coffee, rice, sugar cane and
>tobacco stem.
>
>I would appreciate it if you would send me information on any machines you
>sell and if the raw materials mentioned above are suitable for the purpose,
>my biggest intereset with regards to raw materials would be the tobacco
>stem.
>
>Awaiting your kind and considerate reply
>
>David Pinto
>
>Contact details
>
>David Pinto
>P.O.Box 1147
>lilongwe
>Malawi
>
>Tel (265) 754 693
>Fax (265) 754696
>
>E-mail pintomotors@malawi.net

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Wed Oct 18 17:43:16 2000
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: BFCS-2000
In-Reply-To: <ss1eussvld6mk69i7ghi7vp2vmu4nuimsk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <j84susgmkuc9gem6efc2hqg7hhgurj0nbb@4ax.com>

On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:12:19 +0100, I wrote:

>Ronal et al
>
>I imagine you are getting ready to go to India? I hope it is a
>fruitful conference and you will publish the papers on the internet,
>has Alex submitted his abstract yet? Will Yuri be attending?

It seems that Alex, amongst others, has not been able to attract
funding in order to attend and present his (incomplete) experimental
results and, more importantly, bounce ideas at an eyeball to eyeball
level. Apart from maintaining the list web presence Alex has been the
public experimenter of ideas thrown up on this list and his input to
Pune is very valid, I feel he will present a similar thoughtset to
myself and am happy to propose him for sponsorship.

So! With, I imagine, a target of USD1000 to raise I shall launch a
last ditch appeal for travel funding, replies will be received
gratefully on or off list. In the unlikely event list members are able
to quickly pledge the amount I will need advice on how to turn this
into a fund in escrow for Alex's use. In the further extremely
unlikely event that an excess is pledged I would hope someone else
could receive sponsorship.

In the more probable event we can not reach the target I will ask a UK
delegate to change my firm's offer into the most appropriate currency
and give it to Dr. Karve to use to defray conference costs.

As it stands at present we have two offers of USD100, USD800 to go!

As a post script: I have two e-mail respondees to my original post
questioning the reasons for my impish remarks, they have resulted in
an interesting exchange. For the record I was not campaigning against
the use of air travel to attend the conference, I was trying to
acquaint people with the disparities of scale. Notwithstanding the
fact that air travel is a high consumer of fossil fuel. There seems to
be some doubt as to how many engines the plane needs to get from UK to
India but with an eight hour flight the fuel used would keep our 2kW
stove burning for 128 years continually assuming 4 engines and
constant high power (and no I do not wish to discuss details of
throttle settings in high altitude cruising I accept these peak powers
are likely to be used only at take-off)

AJH
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Oct 18 22:11:29 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: [bamboo-plantations] bamboo charcoal
Message-ID: <62.8291a73.271fb243@cs.com>

Dear Thomas Stubbing:

Congratulations on your combination stove and charcoal maker. I presume it
is an inverted downdraft and you turn it off when it finishes burning the
volatile component of the fuel.

Keep us posted on yields and how it works. It would be invaluable (and
valuable) in many parts of the world.

Yours, TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 10/17/00 4:25:22 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
heat-win@cwcom.net writes:

<<
Dear All,

For your information, here in the UK we first built a small, 0.23 m3
capacity,
indirectly heated wood dryer/torrefier/charcoal maker with which we rapidly
produced indirectly cooled charcoal, mainly from wood but also from a bamboo
sample brought over from Nicaragua.

We now have a 1.8 m3 (around 1 tonne moist wood capacity), mobile, wood stove
heated and 12 volt battery powered unit in the stove of which we are cleanly
combusting the 'smoke', i.e. the pyrolysis gases when charcoal is made.

We are now embarking on further development of this concept internationally,
including the design of large scale, multi-chamber units in which some of the
pyrolysis gases' combustion energy will be utilised to dry the wood or bamboo
before it is converted to charcoal and the remainder of their energy used to
dry additional wood or other materials.

If I can help with the Ethiopian or any other charcoal making project please
let me know.

Regards,

Thomas J Stubbing >>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From costaeec at kcnet.com Wed Oct 18 22:31:21 2000
From: costaeec at kcnet.com (Jim Dunham)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Forwarding Pinto on briquetting:
Message-ID: <003001c03974$494c4a60$c365f0d1@default>

David,

We have densified about every imaginable substance, but tobacco stems is a
new one!

Would be glad to share any info we have for similar materials and give our
best guess as to results to be expected. Can also run sample tests.

Good luck!

Jim Dunham
Environmental Engineering, inc.
816-452-6663
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronal W. Larson <larcon@sni.net>
To: stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>
Cc: David Pinto ] <pintomotors@malawi.net>
Date: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 1:22 PM
Subject: Forwarding Pinto on briquetting:

>Stovers: Today, David Pinto sent this following message:
>
>
>David: Look back through our archives - you may find some suppliers of
>briquetting machines - or possibly someone will respond.
>
>Best of luck. Please let me know if you would like to become a list
member.
>
>
>>
>>Browsing throught the net i have come across your e-mail, i am extremely
>>interested in the briquette equipment used to make charcoal. I am from
>>Malawi and we have a serious problem with a lack of fuel wood as the
treese
>>are now dwindiling in numbers. I have began research in this area and
found
>>readily available raw material in the form of coffee, rice, sugar cane and
>>tobacco stem.
>>
>>I would appreciate it if you would send me information on any machines you
>>sell and if the raw materials mentioned above are suitable for the
purpose,
>>my biggest intereset with regards to raw materials would be the tobacco
>>stem.
>>
>>Awaiting your kind and considerate reply
>>
>>David Pinto
>>
>>Contact details
>>
>>David Pinto
>>P.O.Box 1147
>>lilongwe
>>Malawi
>>
>>Tel (265) 754 693
>>Fax (265) 754696
>>
>>E-mail pintomotors@malawi.net
>
>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>larcon@sni.net
>
>
>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

From elk at net2000ke.com Thu Oct 19 01:58:45 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Forwarding Pinto on briquetting:
Message-ID: <007701c03991$cc5c0e00$1e48cac3@preferrc>

David;

I too have not heard of tobacco stems as an agricultural residue suitable
for carbonisation. Good one! I'll look into it here in Kenya too.

My work here progresses in the same line- carbonise and then briquette. You
can see some of my work on the 'stoves'
WebPages-(see:http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html ).

If you ever plan to come through Nairobi, give me an e-mail & we'll arrange
to meet.

best of luck;

elk
(Chardust Ltd.)

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronal W. Larson <larcon@sni.net>
To: stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>
Cc: David Pinto ] <pintomotors@malawi.net>
Date: 18 October 2000 21:34
Subject: Forwarding Pinto on briquetting:

From heat-win at cwcom.net Thu Oct 19 06:11:32 2000
From: heat-win at cwcom.net (T J Stubbing)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: [bamboo-plantations] bamboo charcoal
In-Reply-To: <62.8291a73.271fb243@cs.com>
Message-ID: <39EECE7A.4E117079@cwcom.net>

Dear Tom et al:

Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:

> Dear Thomas Stubbing:
>
> Congratulations on your combination stove and charcoal maker. I presume it
> is an inverted downdraft and you turn it off when it finishes burning the
> volatile component of the fuel.
>
> Keep us posted on yields and how it works. It would be invaluable (and
> valuable) in many parts of the world.

No, it is not a downdraft machine and yields are high becuase none of the wood
being converted to charcoal is burnt.

For your information, the unit we have is operating in Cumbria, UK, and is still
under
development.

It has a 1.8 m3 stillage which contains around 1 tonne of moist wood in the form
of split logs 20 to 30 cm long.

A 12 volt battery powered fan draws first air and then superheated steam
generated from the wood's surface moisture through the tubes of an indirect
heater, then blows it upwards through the stillage and back to the heater
in a 100% recirculation.

A scrap wood burning stove's combustion gases pass around the outside of the
heater tubes, thus heating the recirculation so that it (the recirculation) then
dries the wood in a superheated steam atmosphere which prevents combustion of the
wood load itself.

The excess steam generated by the drying process is vented to atmosphere,
though as you will see from a large scale, multi-chamber charcoal making concept
which I can send as an attachment to anyone interested, its energy can also be
usefully recycled..

Incidentally, the large scale concept has been independently evaluated and is
arousing international interest because of its overall energy-efficiency and its
potential to eliminate the pollution caused by traditional charcoal making
methods. A project to develop it is likely to sstart soon in the Far East.

Once the wood is dry the temperature of the superheated steam recirculation is
raised, either to the point where the wood is torrefied (see
<http://www.techtp.com> and its links) or to the higher temperature at which the
exothermal pyrolysis reaction begins and the wood is converted to charcoal in a
recirculating, oxygen-free pyrolysis gas atmosphere which again doesn't allow the
charcoal itself to burn.

In our one chamber machine the otherwise atmosphere-polluting pyrolysis gases
vented from the machine are cleanly burnt in the wood burning stove but, as you
can also see from the concept, their energy can also be usefully employed as can
that in the wood burning stove's flue gases emerging from the indirect heater..

The whole 1.8 m3 load capacity machine is trailer mounted and has a 12 volt
battery operated hoist with which the stillage is dropped into or lifted out of
the machine, with the downwards rim of lid from which the stillage is suspended by
four short chains engaging in a sand seal around the top of the well lagged
process chamber.

Non-mobile and without the hoist (loading would then be, for example, by fork
lift truck) the machine is expected to cost around £10,000 ex UK works. Trailer
mounted and complete with hoist the cost will be around £17,000. (Multiply by
around 1.5 and you get US$.)

Regards,

Thomas

From otto at sover.net Thu Oct 19 10:28:33 2000
From: otto at sover.net (Jon & Carrol Otto)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: BFCS-2000
In-Reply-To: <ss1eussvld6mk69i7ghi7vp2vmu4nuimsk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <39EEF69D.9A60CB35@sover.net>

Some thoughts on the costs of attending the November stoves conference in
India:

1. I too am sadly not attending, primarily for want of funding for the
plane ticket

2. Truth be told, I could take the money out of personal resources if I
was willing to dig into savings.

3. Like other US stovers, I have a second constraint: conflict with
Thanksgiving Day, and my family's expectations around this holiday (never
mind its origins)

4. I haven't raised enough funds for the actual work on stoves and
alternative fuel (plant oils) that I want to do, so spending scarce
resources to attend a conference on what I haven't yet been able to do
seems an odd priority for me, although I know I would learn a lot if I
could go.

5. The REAL constraint for most of us is the terribly poor level of
funding for new/renewable energy sources and their efficient uses.

Excuse the comparison, but if this was an AIDS conference, donors would be
pitching in without question. I know of one international NGO that just
received a US$1,000,000 planning grant to work on AIDS orphans -- that's
right: a cool million just to come up with a plan on what to do. Now, we
can probably all agree that comparative misery is a lousy science, and I'm
indeed delighted that AIDS orphans are finally getting some attention,
orphan assistance being the most donor-neglected area of the HIV/AIDS
pandemic. I just wish a reasonable level of funding was available for
global energy concerns, enough to allow all serious stovers to attend this
important event.

Somebody take good notes, please.

Jonathan Otto
Pamoja, Inc.

From elk at net2000ke.com Thu Oct 19 11:48:54 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: BFCS-2000
Message-ID: <000f01c039e4$2a2ea2c0$cc41cac3@preferrc>

Agreed Jon.

It was a tough decision on my part as well- and I don't have a conflicting
family-oriented holiday here in Kenya as do you in the U.S.

I weighed the pros and cons carefully and decided to throw that $2000.00
into my carbonisation work instead. This may have been a bad decision, but
it's been made. I can truthfully say that the decision is in character-
aside from the mini-conference I hosted here in Nairobi with Ronal a couple
years ago, I've never been to a conference that deals with our area of
interest.

I can only hope that this list will do the needful and report as fully as
possible on the conference. Maybe a bit of organisation on behalf of those
list-members that do attend could result in some to-the-point notes being
posted for all us stay-at-homers!

Hey- and especially on carbonisation and briquetting!....... please?

regretfully;

elk

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon & Carrol Otto <otto@sover.net>
To: stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>
Cc: gwilson@sover.net <gwilson@sover.net>
Date: 19 October 2000 17:45
Subject: Re: BFCS-2000

>Some thoughts on the costs of attending the November stoves conference in
>India:
>
>1. I too am sadly not attending, primarily for want of funding for the
>plane ticket
>
>2. Truth be told, I could take the money out of personal resources if I
>was willing to dig into savings.
>
>3. Like other US stovers, I have a second constraint: conflict with
>Thanksgiving Day, and my family's expectations around this holiday (never
>mind its origins)
>
>4. I haven't raised enough funds for the actual work on stoves and
>alternative fuel (plant oils) that I want to do, so spending scarce
>resources to attend a conference on what I haven't yet been able to do
>seems an odd priority for me, although I know I would learn a lot if I
>could go.
>
>5. The REAL constraint for most of us is the terribly poor level of
>funding for new/renewable energy sources and their efficient uses.
>
>Excuse the comparison, but if this was an AIDS conference, donors would be
>pitching in without question. I know of one international NGO that just
>received a US$1,000,000 planning grant to work on AIDS orphans -- that's
>right: a cool million just to come up with a plan on what to do. Now, we
>can probably all agree that comparative misery is a lousy science, and I'm
>indeed delighted that AIDS orphans are finally getting some attention,
>orphan assistance being the most donor-neglected area of the HIV/AIDS
>pandemic. I just wish a reasonable level of funding was available for
>global energy concerns, enough to allow all serious stovers to attend this
>important event.
>
>Somebody take good notes, please.
>
>Jonathan Otto
>Pamoja, Inc.
>
>
>
>
>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

From terran1 at bellsouth.net Thu Oct 19 14:22:11 2000
From: terran1 at bellsouth.net (regina freitas)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Coal for cooking...
In-Reply-To: <78.b30be4a.2713282e@cs.com>
Message-ID: <39EF34BC.4173BFD3@bellsouth.net>

Hello every body, it has been enjoyable and enlighting at the same time
reading ALL your e-mails, it is good to see such dedicated group
of people, it pleases the soul to no end. I hope you can understand
my English.

Mr. Larson, my apologise for taking so long to write back, have been
traveling a bit much in the past weeks, if you are on your way to India,
good luck on your trip. Also one of my brasilian scientists, is working
on a cooking stove that will be cost efective and easy to manufacture,
using our briquette as its fuel source and as soon as he copletes it, I
shall convei it to you, it will be done through our foundation.
however,

I believe, our company have solved the problem ( of the so called bio-coal)
, we have developed a machines that produces a briquette, that can be used
almost in any place mineral coal is used, with one major diference, IT
IS ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY. in our tests, the only place it did
not work as well was on smelting plants, because of th need for a constant
heat, and the briquete will peak and then lower.

The density and size of the briquette can be made to order, or for a
specific industry, we can go from a briquette with a very high density
to one that can burn in your BBQ, even if you are an apartment
dweller, because our briquette produce very little smoke.

Sorry our patent is still pendig here in the USA, I can't give
you much information on hte machine itselve but here is a discription
of a sample of briquette that I am having some additional testes done.

DIAMETER: 60 TO 70 MM,
LENGHT ADJUSTABLE ,
ASHES 3 TO 5 %
DENSITY 1000 TO 1500KG/MG
HUMIDITY 3 TO 5%
POTENCY 40 TO 55 KWH/hr
CALORIC POWER
5800 TO 6200kg-Calories per kg
PRODUCTION CAPABILITY OF EACH MACHINE:
1000kg PER HOUR

The economical advantages you BIOMASS "wizzes",
know better then I.

We use sugar cane bagasse, rice hull, saw dust,
bamboo, coco nut shell, corn husk, etc. ( biomass period) however,
the raw material dictate thefinal use of the briquette,
a corn husk base briquette will burn too fast, yet a babassu shell ( coconut
) can be compared to mineral coal, it will depend on the density,
the raw material will yield..........

We are launching a program to place 7000 machines
in Latin America in the 60 months.

Regards

Regina Freitas

Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:
Dear Ron et al:

If we are trying to improve cooking for the 3 billion people yet to
be served
we should certainly consider (low sulfur?) coal. It burns very
well in our
turbo stove.

If we are purists who don't want to have anything to do with fossil
fuel, let
them breathe smoke or spend hours collecting wood.

TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 9/27/00 5:27:46 PM Mountain Daylight Time, larcon@sni.net
writes:

Kirk Smith: Has your work corroborated the claims made here
about coal
being superior to wood?

Steven: Our list is primarily interested in finding improvements
to simple
(ie three-stone) stoves used in developing countries.
I am pretty sure
you are referring to results in modern well-enclosed (expensive)
stoves -
but I was not aware that there was much use of coal in this market,
Could
you please send in another message clarifying on the sources
of your data -
and whether you have seen anything on much simpler (probably
not enclosed)
cook stoves. In particular, there seems to be use of coal
in China for
simple stoves. Do you have any data on that topic?

Thanks for your input. Emissions are a key part of what
is driving stoves
activities these days. There are many different efforts
on this list - and
I guess that little has been done to compare with coal.
It will be
interesting to see what your posting brings forth.

Ron

>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From macsas at mweb.co.za Thu Oct 19 22:11:53 2000
From: macsas at mweb.co.za (Ronald & Sharon)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: kiln
Message-ID: <200010200211.WAA19039@crest.solarhost.com>

To: stoves@crest.org
Message-id: <001b01c0399d$cc852360$3a271ec4@pro>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C039AE.1A52CA60"
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
X-Priority: 3

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C039AE.1A52CA60
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please send information and costing of your portable charcoal kiln.
Thanks
Ronald

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C039AE.1A52CA60
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
Please send information and costing of = your=20 portable charcoal kiln.
Thanks
Ronald

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C039AE.1A52CA60--

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Oct 24 10:11:42 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Corn gasification anyone? Arghhh
Message-ID: <39.bbf4408.2726f259@cs.com>

Dear Thomas Koch, Phil et al:

This is shear madness.

1) Pellet stoves seem to burn WASTE corn quite well, so it is a good, easy
feeding biomass. I found that it doesn't gasify too well in our Turbo
stove...

2) The production of corn and most other things in our society is cheap
because we are using up Mother (and Father?) Nature's birthright of cheap oil
and natural gas . So, growing corn with oil and gas-fertilizer is madness.
We need to learn to make fertilizer and fuel from the wastes associated with
agriculture and forestry. Then we'll be sustainable....

[Most biomass has a DRY, ASH FREE energy content of 22 MJ/kg. People love to
re-measure biomass and rediscover this.]

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 10/24/00 1:34:45 AM Mountain Daylight Time, tk@tke.dk
writes:

<<
Dear Phil

1. About 16000 KJ (dont know how many BTU)
2. Ther are reasons to believe that corn can be gasifiyed, at least wheat
and barley can.
3. Not all that easy
4. I know about gasification of the cobs and grain from wheat and Barley.

Th >>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Oct 25 10:17:20 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Sawdust pellets
Message-ID: <44.8593600.27284521@cs.com>

Dear all:

The 70 kWh/ton required to make the pellets equates to 252 Megajoules.

The combustion of the pellets releases about 20 gigajoueles/ton, a ratio of
80 MJ out for each megajoule in. It's not quite that good though, since the
efficiency of generating the power is typically 33%, so the ratio reduces to
26. Still a pretty good multiplication factor if otherwise the biomass is
unusable.

Lots of die wear in the ring die. Beware of sander dust. Probably an
advantage to make 1-2 cm pellets where possible rather than the typical US 6
mm pellet...

Yours, TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 10/24/00 2:40:39 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
RogBrown40@aol.com writes:

<<
Hello,
The machine most commonly used to make pellets, out of a very wide range of
materials including sawdust, is a ring die pelletiser. Ring die pelletisers
are widely used in the animal feed industry and secondhand machines are
readily available. The feedstock needs to be consistent particularly in terms
of moisture content and particle size. Energy requirement foor sawdust around
50 to 70kwhr per tonne. You'll probably need a grinder/hammer mill to size
the feedstock and maybe a pellet cooler as well, as the pellets will exit the
pelletiser die at between 80 and 90C.
Regards,
Roger Brown
>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From karve at wmi.co.in Thu Oct 26 15:34:18 2000
From: karve at wmi.co.in (karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: BFCS-2000: an update
Message-ID: <39F887AB.73CD8D2F@wmi.co.in>

Friends,
I am happy to inform you that Sandi's International Tours & Travels,
a Pune-based firm, has been made the Authorized Travel Agent for
BFCS-2000.
All the delegates that are arriving at Mumbai by air can avail of
Sandi's Mumbai International airport to Pune A/C couch service. The
biggest advantage of the service is that the coach will drop you at your
place of residence in Pune. Those of you who have informed me of their
need for Mumbai-Pune travel arrangments and those who have already paid
for such arrangments will soon hear from Ms. Swati Gokhale of Sandi's.
Those of you who have asked for hotel booking will also be contacted by
Ms. Gokhale.
Some of you are planning to stay on after November 25. Please note
that the guest house will not be available after November 25 morning,
and you will have to shift to a hotel. Please get in touch with Sandi's
for the hotel booking as well as arrangment of sightseeing tours.
In general all of you are welcome to use the services of Sandi's for
all your travel, accommodation and other needs, before and after the
conference. For details of the services available, you can contact Ms.
Gokhale at sandis@vsnl.com.

I will circulate the final list of delegates and the detailed
conference programme by November 1. I am aware that several of you have
to go through a long process in order to get the registration charges
sanctioned by your organisation. Those of you who confirm their
participation by October 30, can pay the registration and accommodation
charge on arrival, without any late fee.
All the paper presenters are requested to note that they have 15
minutes each for presenting their papers followed by 5 minutes for
questions and discussion. Facilities such as overhead projector and
slide projector are available. The facility of powerpoint presentation
has been arranged for those who have requested for the same.
You can also present video films on biomass energy oriented work of
yourself or your organisation. Please inform me of the title and
duration of the film by October 30, which will help me in scheduling the
video film show. The cassette must be in the PAL format. I would also
like to remind you that all of you are welcome to put up posters based
on your papers or in general describing your/your organisation's work
(noncommercial) in a poster session that will remain open from November
20 to November 23. Those who wish to display advertisments of commercial
products/exhibit the products have to take exhibition spaces, the charge
for which is Rs.4000 for Indians and USD100 for non-Indians. You can
also advertise in the abstract booklet, the rates for which will be
communicated on request.
I am aware that we have fallen behind in dispatching of paper
acceptance letters as well as receipts of registration and accommodation
charges. This has happened mainly due to a sudden rush of papers and
money transfers towards the end of the deadlines on one hand, and a
shortage of manpower with us on the other hand. We have to keep our
other projects on schedule while preparing for the conference and every
ARTI member particularly wants to be free for the 'big' week in
November. This has resulted into everyone's outstation assignments
falling within the same time bracket. On top of that this is the time of
Diwali- the biggest and most important festival in the Indian calendar.
Anyway, I will send out the acknowledgements at least by e-mail by
November 5, 2000. Please bear with us.

With regards,
Priyadarshini Karve

begin:vcard
n:Karve;Priyadarshini
tel;fax:-
tel;home:91 020 5423258
tel;work:91 020 5442217/4390348/4392284
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://members.tripod.com/ARTI_India/index.html
org:Appropriate Rural Technology Institue (ARTI)
version:2.1
email;internet:karve@wmi.co.in
title:Member
note:ARTI is an NGO undertaking research projects to study, develop, standardise, implement, commercialise and popularise innovative appropriate rural technologies with special emphasis on making traditional rural enterprises more profitable and generating new employment opportunities through introduction of novel business possibilities in rural areas.
adr;quoted-printable:;;2nd Floor, Maninee Apartments,=0D=0AOpposite Pure Foods Co., Dhayarigaon,;Pune,;Maharashtra;411 041;India
fn:Dr. Priyadarshini Karve
end:vcard

From larcon at sni.net Fri Oct 27 11:52:56 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Forwarding Bates on Boiling Point 46
Message-ID: <v01540b00b61f2c4e63b5@[204.131.233.37]>

Stovers: Please note the following (and that Liz will be in Pune!!):

>From: Liz Bates <elizabethb@itdg.org.uk>
>To: "'owner-stoves-digest@crest.org'" <owner-stoves-digest@crest.org>
>Subject: Boiling Point 46
>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:37:43 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>
>Dear Ron
>Could I put in my biannual plea for articles for Boiling Point please, as
>given below. I look forward to meeting many of those involved in the stoves
>web at the Pune Conference.
>With thanks
>Liz
>
>Dear stoves-web members
>Those of you who get Boiling Point will soon be receiving BP45, which is now
>with the typesetters. It is time to consider the next edition, the theme of
>which is:
>
>* BP46: Household energy and the vulnerable
>For those people and communities who have particular needs, access to
>household energy may be a major factor in their lives. This edition of
>Boiling Point will be dedicated to looking at those problems and possible
>coping strategies. BP46 will look at sectors of the community for whom
>access to energy is a particular problem such as: the elderly who are alone;
>children who have to fend for themselves; people with physical and mental
>disabilities, those who suffer long-term illness. The edition will also look
>at vulnerable communities, for example: those which are particularly
>isolated, and for whom climatic changes have had a major adverse impact;
>those urban communities for whom no formal tenancy arrangements, or their
>status, make access to clean energy difficult. Other household energy topics
>dealing with those who are vulnerable are also welcome.
>
>If anyone would like to contribute material on this theme, or on any other
>aspect of household energy, please let me know. I would also welcome contact
>details for people whom you feel might wish to contribute material. Articles
>should be about 1500 words in length, and we really value illustrations, bar
>charts etc. to add to visual interest. Articles can be submitted to me as
>typescript, attached files, on disc etc. with a deadline of the end of
>January 2001.
>
>Finally, if you do not receive Boiling Point (the ITDG journal on household
>energy) and would like to do so, please contact me - it is supplied free of
>charge. Details below:
>
>Liz Bates, Boiling Point Co-ordinator,
>
>lizb@itdg.org.uk
>Intermediate Technology Development Group
>Schumacher Centre for Technology Development
>Bourton Hall
>Bourton On Dunsmore
>Warwickshire
>CV23 9QZ
>UK
>Tel: +44 - 01788 661100
>Fax: +44 - 01788 661101
>http://www.oneworld.org/itdg
>http:/www.itdg.org.pe
>
>Company Reg. No 871954, England
>Charity No 247257
>

From larcon at sni.net Tue Oct 31 22:58:36 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Pillow Shape Charcoal Briquettes
Message-ID: <v01540b03b624f8382e95@[204.131.233.46]>

Stovers:

The following is a bounced message that I guess is worthy of sending on.

Patrick:
We have a few persons on the list who might have the ability to
help - but I am afraid you may have to simply get to the desired result by
trial and error. Most of the discussion on this list has been about
extruded cylindrical shapes.

Please be sure that you do not use charcoal that has been produced
badly - that is produced inefficiently and without flaring (and then
without using the very valuable heat released upon flaring). Please use
only scrap materials that would otherwise be rotting away.

Our list is free and we would be glad to sign yu up.

Ron

Patrick wrote:

> We are a Indonesian based company and we want to make the above so can
> you assist us in the design of the press machine to make the Pillow
> shape.
> Can you just give us some ideas so that we may fabricate the machines in
> Indonesia?
> Thanking you and best regards
> Patrick

Patrick <pat001@pd.jaring.my>

From larcon at sni.net Tue Oct 31 22:59:03 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Forwarding Inversin on electricity for cooking
Message-ID: <v01540b08b624fe1f916b@[204.131.233.46]>

Stovers: Allen Inversin is a respected promoter of small hydropower, and
has written an excellent book on the subject. His organization nreca is
the main US organizaton for rural electric cooperatives - many of which
started in the US as hydropower units. Allen has worked extensively in
developing countries on small hydropower for US groups like USAID.

Allen: This question has not come up (in this form) on this list before.
My recommendation is to look up the work of two professors on this list at
UC Berkeley - Kirk Smith and Dan Kammen - both of whom have worked in
numerous developing countries on rural cooking. Several others on this
list have also done studies and I hope will try to offer some ideas as well
(hopefully for all to share)

My reading says that the variation is huge around the world in the
energy consumption in units of kWh per meal - especially due to family size
and differences in type of cooking in different cultures. On this list,
the numbers will be high as most wood stoves are not very efficient.
Electric stoves should probably more than halve the numbers you will find.

We are having a stoves conference in Pune, India in a few weeks
where there should be some discussion of this number (units of kG wood per
meal, with a usual assumption of about 18 MJ per kG wood). This conference
has intentionally been restricted to stoves based on biomass (some with
liquid fuels).

Please let me know if we can sign you up as a list member. We
would love to hear of locations where your research finds dispersed
renewable hydro electric generators to be a cost-effective option.

Anyone else able to help Allen?

Ron

(the rest from a "bounced" original message from Allen)

>
>While electricity has typically not been used for cooking in rural areas,
>circumstances exist where electricity has been or could be used to replace
>fuelwood or other biomass where these fuels are growing increasingly
>expensive and difficult to obtain and where their use is having adverse
>environmental impacts. Isolated micro- and mini-hydropower plants are one
>such source. But to assess whether electricity is a cheaper option requires
>knowing how much energy is typically required for cooking. While this
>number may seem easy to uncover, I have found this not to be the case.
>
>I am looking for individuals who, for any specific country, might have some
>information on the average daily per-household energy consumption (kWh or MJ
>or kcal) for cooking a typical set of meals and what fuel (e.g.,
>electricity, kerosene, fuelwood, etc.) and cooking appliance (e.g., hotplate
>or low-wattage cooker, wick or pressure cooker, 3-stone or improved
>cookstove, etc., respectively) are associated with this number.
>
>While I am looking for some approximate figures for the above, any papers
>you might also suggest on the problems associated with promoting electricity
>for cooking, aside from costs, would also be appreciated. Thanks for any
>light which you can shed.
>
>Allen Inversin
>NRECA International

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

October 2000 Biomass Cooking Stoves Archive