BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

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February 2001 Biomass Cooking Stoves Archive

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From dstill at epud.org Mon Feb 5 17:52:14 2001
From: dstill at epud.org (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:46 2004
Subject: wood pellets/briquettes for cooking: processing and burning
Message-ID: <000d02139e63$2515e0a0$372b74d8@default>

Dear Mr Steinmuller,

Modern fuel efficient stoves for cooking are designed to cook using thin
branchwood. The most efficient use is to dry the branchwood and use it
directly, allowing the tree to grow another supply.

Using the thin branchwood to make charcoal briquettes wastes a large portion
of the heat energy concentrated in the wood. Check out the Rocket stove
design, for example, as one method of burning such material directly. It can
be seen at www.efn.org/~apro

Best Regards,

Dean Still

 

 

From carbex at rdsor.ro Wed Feb 7 16:49:15 2001
From: carbex at rdsor.ro (Cornel Ticarat)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:46 2004
Subject: Thanks!
Message-ID: <200102072045.PAA29160@crest.solarhost.com>

Dear Kevin Chisholm, Dean Still, Richard Boyt, K.K. Prasad and Yury
Yudkevich,

Thank you very much for all of your valuable advices. I'll try to cover the
lower part of the retort with a layer of refractory material used here to
make refractory bricks. Hope it will work.

Best regards to all,

Cornel Ticarat

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Feb 7 21:51:27 2001
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:46 2004
Subject: Biomass Conference of America Abstracts Due March 16
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010207174349.00d9bc90@mail.teleport.com>

> From: BIOMASS_CONF@FSEC.UCF.EDU [SMTP:BIOMASS_CONF@FSEC.UCF.EDU]
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 11:51 PM

> Subject: International Biomass Conference
>
> We are pleased to announce the "Fifth International Biomass
> Conference of the Americas -- Bioenergy and Biobased Products:
> Technologies, Markets, and Policies." The program is organized
> by the U.S. Department of Energy, the U.S. Department of Agriculture,
> Natural Resources Canada, and the National Renewable Energy Laboratory.
>
> Extended abstracts are due by March 16 for presentation at the conference
> to be held in Orlando, Florida, September 17-21, 2001.
>
> You can get all the information on papers, posters and preliminary
> topics at the conference web site: http://www.nrel.gov/bioam. The site is
>
> being updated and will soon have more general information and other
> details. Proposed paper topics include Biomass Resources, Bioenergy
> Products, Integrating Emerging Technologies, Biobased Products, Biomass
> Refineries, Environmental and Ecological Impacts, Public/Private
> Partnerships,
> Social Acceptability, and Policies for Market Development.
>
> A comprehensive program with oral presentations, interactive poster
> clusters, exhibits, technical tours and more is planned for this event.
> The conference will be held at the Rosen Centre Hotel near Walt Disney
> World
> and the many exciting tourist attractions in Orlando. Plan to bring the
> whole
> family to enjoy this conference. More than 650 people from 35 different
> countries attended the last conference, and Orlando promises to build on
> this
> success with the best program ever.
>
> Check out the web site now and please submit your abstract by March 16.
> You won't want to miss this conference, and we hope you will participate.

Thomas R Miles tmiles@trmiles.com
T R Miles, TCI Tel 503-292-0107
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax 503-292-2919
Portland, OR 97225 USA

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Feb 7 22:22:31 2001
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:46 2004
Subject: New Bioenergy List Commands
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010207181438.037d0100@mail.teleport.com>

CREST has converted the Stoves List to a New Software Program. Please use
the following commands to subscribe or unsubscribe to the list.

Thank you

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator

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Thomas R Miles tmiles@trmiles.com
T R Miles, TCI Tel 503-292-0107
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax 503-292-2919
Portland, OR 97225 USA

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Feb 7 22:43:30 2001
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:46 2004
Subject: Stoves List Administrative Commands
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010207183722.037b0d50@mail.teleport.com>

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From jovick at island.net Thu Feb 8 10:13:05 2001
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:46 2004
Subject: KAK
Message-ID: <000a01c091be$f8b37c60$90eb34d1@computer>

 

 

February 8

Dear Ron

Help, I have the KAK virus, What to
do

John

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Feb 8 10:31:54 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:46 2004
Subject: Optimizing Fuel Volume Density...
Message-ID: <4f.72d69e7.27b406e8@cs.com>

Especially, Tom Miles and Andries Weststeijn:

Andries Weststeijn recently said that a limiting factor in co-firing biomass
with coal was the low density of typical biomass (~50-400 kg/m3).  Biomass
overloads the volume capacity of the feed system originally designed for coal
( bulk density ~700 (brown coal) to ~850 (anthracite) kg/m3).  

Others have talked here recently about pelletizing switchgrass (density < 100
kg/m3 to ~700 kg/m3 after pelletizing which would solve this problem in part.

These are practical problems which affect the use of all fuels, and
particularly biomass.  A major advantage of densification of biomass to
pellets, cubes and logs is that it then takes up 1/10 to 1/2 the amount of
space for shipping and storing.  

ROAD LIMITS:

In shipping, some materials (ie, steel) are weight limited on the highway,
while other materials (straw bales) are volume limited.  Each country and
each state/province may have different limits, but every roal has a legal
weight limit for trucks.  I remember that Tom Miles's father made major
contributions to shipping wood when chipping was first developed in the 1930s
(?).  I hope he will give us a short essay on the desirability of increasing
the density of biomass.   

We often speak of the MASS ENERGY DENSITY of fuels, Btu/lb or MJ/kg or
GJ/ton(ne) .  We should also speak of the VOLUME ENERGY DENSITY OF FUELS,
GJ/m3 (= GJ/ton X ton/m3), since this has very important implications in the
value and use of any new fuel.

FEEDING
I hope Andries Weststeijn can give us a short essay on the effect of energy
volume density on storing and feeding fuels.  

In summary,  most biomass suffers from having not only a low MASS ENERGY
DENSITY (compared to coal, oil etc.) but also a low VOLUME ENERGY DENSITY.  
Densification greatly reduces the latter penalty and sometimes justifies the
costs of processing.  

 

From rdboyt at yahoo.com Thu Feb 8 12:01:45 2001
From: rdboyt at yahoo.com (Richard Boyt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:46 2004
Subject: Newspaper Stove
Message-ID: <20010208155812.24588.qmail@web618.mail.yahoo.com>


Dear Wastepaper Stovers,

I very much enjoyed Dr. Reed's account of
experiences trying to burn or otherwise recycle
newspapers. I remember that when I delivered carefully
stacked and wrapped bundles of newspapers to the local
salvage center I saw them dumped into a semi trailer
along with great quantities of garbage and other trash
and then head off for the nearest landfill. I decided
to try a tightly rolled log of newsprint as fuel for a
stove. No attempts to adjust combustion air, roll
size, or compaction, caused anything but a few more
outer layers to burn, and that only at the price of
considerable smoke and an unsatisfactory thin layer of
black char before it self extinguished.

Remembering the feriosity with which I once saw a
standing hollow tree burn, and had having experienced
several scarry flue fires, I formed a hollow cylinder
of newspaper and stood it vertically inside a well
insulated section of stove pipe. I set it on a grate
to admit primary air and and lit it at the inside
bottom. It worked fine until the inside sheets began
to shrink and distort and eventually restrict the flow
of combustion air so completely that it soon flamed
out, smoked copiciously, and finally died out leaving
the bulk of the paper not even scorched. I found that
I could solve the shrink clogging problem by wrapping
the newsprint in multiple layers around a small open
cylinder of hardware cloth 2 1/2 in. diam. and 14 in.
long. It worked very well at first but the high
temperatures reached in this miniature reverberatory
furnace soon destroyed the iron mesh "breather tube".
A replacement tube of expanded stainless steel has now
stood up very well to many very hot firings.

Starting the inside of the paper roll to burn is
difficult but can be accomplished by coating the
inside layer of paper with a bit of cooking oil or by
dropping flaming strips of thin waxed cardboard down
from the top. I usually get smoke during the lighting
and initial flaming stage as the center cavity emits a
flaming torch about 18 inches high that at night
lights up the landscape. As the flame dies back, the
inside of the now charred chimney of charred paper
begins to glow as the char is converted to ash.
Looking down inside the cylinder you see a bright
orange column of glowing char/ash. Flowing, sometimes
rippling up the surface of this golden donut is a
faint nearly transparent pale blue/purple film .No
detectable smoke is given off though a good deal of
heat rises from the glowing tube. It has no odor, does
not sting the eyes, and though I have purposely
inhaled modest quantities of it I have detected no
hint of early carbon monoxide poisoning. Several times
I have brought the glowing stove inside to help heat
the kitchen where it left only a few small fragments
of fly ash.

Yet another surprise awaits, for after the stove has
cooled, when the now cold breather tube is carefully
removed it brings out with it a multiple of very thin
fragments of white translucent newspaper ash that even
as you watch, breaks away suspended on the slightest
breeze. Once, an unbroken quarter sheet of
diaphanousbreak up in the air. It would be most
difficult to weigh these filaments as they literally
float on air. Total conversion of char to ash is rare
but usually only a couple of palm sized pieces of
charred sheet remain.

It won't heat your home but it might make a useful
small batch-loaded space heater for a well ventilated
workshop. Hope this proves useful to someone,
Richard Boyt 20479 Panda, Neosho Mo 64850
rdboyt@yahoo.com




 

 

 

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From heat-win at cwcom.net Thu Feb 8 13:50:17 2001
From: heat-win at cwcom.net (Thomas J Stubbing)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:46 2004
Subject: KAK
In-Reply-To: <000a01c091be$f8b37c60$90eb34d1@computer>
Message-ID: <3A82DB19.53602DB5@cwcom.net>

Dear John and Stovers,

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Thu Feb 8 14:39:53 2001
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:46 2004
Subject: Optimizing Fuel Volume Density...
In-Reply-To: <4f.72d69e7.27b406e8@cs.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010208084619.00e7ae30@mail.teleport.com>

Tom,

A comment about energy densities. I'll post some information later on my
website.

Industrial and institutional boilers

In our experience the low density of biomass (wood sawdust or chips,
200-300 kg/m3) limits direct blending with coal to about 5% in existing
stoking equipment. In 1979 when we first cofired wet sawdust (up to 67%)
with coal in an institutional boiler (steam 8,000 lb/hr, 1 kg/s) we
designed a separate stoker for firing the wood that gave us control over
the distribution of the wood on the grate, which is important for
combustion control. At the time direct fired wood (including capital and
operating costs, efficiencies, etc.) had a cost advantage of $.32/MMBtu
compared with coal, or about 14% of the coal cost. Wood pellets had a cost
disadvantage compared with coal of $.43/MMBtu, or about 18% more than coal.
The institution used the wood firing tests to negotiate a lower price for
coal. We do have clients who manufacture densified biomass for cofiring
with coal but only in circumstances where disposal costs offset the cost of
densification and delivery to the industrial user.

We recently completed initial tests (1200 tons) of grass in a large
pulverized coal boiler (700 MWe ~900 kg/s). The milled switchgrass weighed
160 kg/m3 (10 lb/ft3) and was fired at rates of 12 to 16 tons per hour. We
displaced 9 tons of coal with 12 tons of grass. Again a separate feed was
used. The justification for co-firing grass or wood with coal today in the
US is environmental (greenhouse gas reduction, regulatory mandates, etc.)
rather than economic.

Domestic and small scale

There are clearly advantages to densification at the small scale if you can
afford it. Densified fuels provide good porosity and control for combustion
at any scale. Densification provides a way of diluting difficult fuels
(high ash, or high in alkali) with cleaner fuels.

Cubing or pelletizing adds about $15-30/ton to the cost of the fuel. In the
US homeowners pay $120-$160/ton for bagged wood stove pellets in our area
and $120-200/ton from sixty plants across the country (See Pellet Fuels
Institute "What do Pellets Cost?"
http://www.pelletheat.org/fuel/fuel.html). (Wood fuel is delivered to
biomass power plants at about $14-$16/ton. Clean wood at $30-40/ton is
bought by the board processing industry and not available for fuel.)

The US production of pellets is about 0.7 million tons per year. (Pellet
Fuels Institute :Where do Pellets Come From?
http://www.pelletheat.org/fuel/fuel.html )

Densities run from 20-35 lb/ft3 (320-560 kg/m3). The effective bulk density
of pellets or cubes in a combustor or gasifier is about 16 lb/ft3 (256
kg/m3). Wood pellets have been used in US coal stokers during periods of
high energy prices (1975-1985).

We have local nurseries that use natural gas and propane for heating
greenhouses. They have been paying about $4.50/MMBtu (GJ) for gas, equal to
about $70/dry ton of wood. The recent 35% increase in natural gas (to
$6/MMBtu equal to about $96/ton of wood) should make wood attractive at
$20-30/ton. But the wood heated greenhouses have been shut down for
pollution control. Densified wood pellets could reduce emissions but are
too expensive at $120/ton ($7.50/MMBtu) even if they have wood burning
equipment.

But in other areas the economies may be different. We have a client in
India who has made firelogs from native grasses and wood for many years.
And in Europe there have been many manufacturers of densification equipment.

Transportation

The optimum density for hauling materials in the US is about 20 lb/ft3 (320
kg/m3). At that point an increase in density does not make use of the
available volume due to payload limits in road transportation.

While densification aids transportation the savings do not usually justify
the cost for fuel applications. We bale and compact 500,000 tons of straw
from our area for export. Our cost of harvesting and transporting the straw
to an industrial plant is about $50/ton at 10 lb/ft3 (160 kg/m3). We
increase the density of the straw from 160 kg/m3 to 320 kg/m3 so that we
can get 20-25 mt in a shipping container. The operation adds about
$30-40/ton in cost which is easily paid for by the feed markets in Asia.
Fuel markets do not support this level of processing costs.

Regards,

Tom

At 09:27 AM 2/8/01 -0500, Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:
>Andries Weststeijn recently said that a limiting factor in co-firing biomass
>with coal was the low density of typical biomass (~50-400 kg/m3). Biomass
>overloads the volume capacity of the feed system originally designed for coal
>( bulk density ~700 (brown coal) to ~850 (anthracite) kg/m3).
>
>Others have talked here recently about pelletizing switchgrass (density < 100
>kg/m3 to ~700 kg/m3 after pelletizing which would solve this problem in part.
>
>
>These are practical problems which affect the use of all fuels, and
>particularly biomass. A major advantage of densification of biomass to
>pellets, cubes and logs is that it then takes up 1/10 to 1/2 the amount of
>space for shipping and storing.
>
>ROAD LIMITS:
>
>In shipping, some materials (ie, steel) are weight limited on the highway,
>while other materials (straw bales) are volume limited. Each country and
>each state/province may have different limits, but every roal has a legal
>weight limit for trucks. I remember that Tom Miles's father made major
>contributions to shipping wood when chipping was first developed in the 1930s
>(?). I hope he will give us a short essay on the desirability of increasing
>the density of biomass.
>
>We often speak of the MASS ENERGY DENSITY of fuels, Btu/lb or MJ/kg or
>GJ/ton(ne) . We should also speak of the VOLUME ENERGY DENSITY OF FUELS,
>GJ/m3 (= GJ/ton X ton/m3), since this has very important implications in the
>value and use of any new fuel.
>
>FEEDING
>I hope Andries Weststeijn can give us a short essay on the effect of energy
>volume density on storing and feeding fuels.
>
>In summary, most biomass suffers from having not only a low MASS ENERGY
>DENSITY (compared to coal, oil etc.) but also a low VOLUME ENERGY DENSITY.
>Densification greatly reduces the latter penalty and sometimes justifies the
>costs of processing.

Thomas R Miles tmiles@trmiles.com
T R Miles, TCI Tel 503-292-0107
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax 503-292-2919
Portland, OR 97225 USA

 

From rdboyt at yahoo.com Thu Feb 8 16:11:46 2001
From: rdboyt at yahoo.com (Richard Boyt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Insulation Tests
Message-ID: <20010208200813.24191.qmail@web618.mail.yahoo.com>


Dear Dean Still, and other Stovers,

Countless past contributions on the subject of
insulations, and particularly the encouragements of
Dean Still and Larry Winiarski of Aprovecho, and Elsen
Karstad at CharDust, prompted explorations into low,
(no) cost, home made, high, medium, and low temp.
stove insulations. As a sometimes potter I saw clay as
a basic starting ingredient, and as we heat and cook
with wood, I saw wood ash and sawdust as promising
additions.

Thirty test samples were made, each starting with
earthenware clay dug from a pond nearby. Each test
sample contained 30 g. of dry crushed clay that was
then modified by adding quantities of 0 g. to 60 g. of
dry ash in 6 steps, and 0 g. to 20 g. of dry sawdust
in 5 steps. Each sample was then mixed and made
plastic with water, hand molded into a small cylinder,
weighed, measured, dried, weighed, measured, fired to
red heat, weighed, measured, soaked in water, weighed,
measured, and then suspended in water and weighed to
determine volume from which specific weight could be
determined.

The results were promising but incomplete as no tests
have yet been made on more sizable samples to
determine the insulative properties, strength,
abrasion resistance, thermal shock resistance, and
heat durability of the 30 formulas. In general
however, the clay served well as a plasticizer and
medium temp. binder. The ash served as a high temp.
and thermal shock modifier, and the sawdust burned to
char and/or ash to provide small air pockets that
served to reduce weight and so to increase insulative
properties. The tests were designed to permit the
examination of numerous linear and plane blends that
could suggest what might work best under certain
conditions.

I welcome suggestions on how the investigation
might have been better designed as I would like to
eventually explore combinations of a number of other
materials.

In the meantime I intend to send the test samples
and details of their compositions and testing to Dean
Still who is independentally trying to solve the same
insulation problems using much the same starting
materials that I used.

Hoping this might prove useful, sincerely,

Richard Boyt 20479 Panda, Neosho MO 64850
rdboyt@yahoo.com

 

 

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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Feb 8 17:54:55 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Newspaper Stove and Wood chip/pellet stove
Message-ID: <bb.b9031cb.27b46e95@cs.com>

What a lovely description of a significant experiment that we can all build
on.  What was the outer chimney diameter?

Richard seems to have solved the problem caused by the fact that each sheet
of burning paper makes a low density sheet of charcoal that pulls away from
the mass and prevents further reaction.  I'll have to try it, but here are a
few comments I hope Richard and others will try.

1)  Isopropyl alcohol is an excellent fire starter.  It has a higher boiling
point than methanol or ethanol, so doesn't evaporate as fast.  It has a
higher heat content but not enough to produce yellow flames like charcoal
lighter fluid (refined kerosene or fuel oil).  

2)  The fact that you have an 18 inch flame means that you have pyrolysed the
paper and converted char to producer gas, but don't have complete combustion.
See my gasifier garage heater stove see below.  We are having a cold winter
here in Golden, so I work on this stove in my garage on Saturdays (while
listening to Click and Clack, the Car Guys).    

3) One can buy perforated steel (or stainless steel) with millions of 1/16"
holes for this purpose, grates etc.  It is sometimsometimes used to make
radiant heaters in restaurants etc.  I bought a 4X 8 ft sheet a decade ago
for $100 and have found many uses for it.  Beats drilling holes!  The holes
might work better than your SS screen - or might not.  
One call also buy stretched metal sheets with diamond shaped holes.

                                                            ~~~~~
Being motivated by the cold winter, I have recently made a similar unit for
wood chips or pellets using a 1 foot length of 6 inch stove pipe containing a
6 in OD X 5 in ID riser sleeve.  At the top I put a 5in to 4 inch reducer and
above the reducer a 2 foot length of pipe to provide draft.  I drilled 2 rows
of 3/16 diameter holes and one row of 1/4 inch holes on the slope of the
reducer just before the chimney.  I put a stove pipe cap with a movable flap
on the bottom to regulate the pyrolysis-gasification air.

I filled the unit with 360 g of wood chips and added 40 g of alcohol soaked
chips.  I then threw in a match and put the burner-chimney on.  The chips
burned about 15 minutes with 63 beautiful flamelets visible (with a metal
mirror) down the chimney.  

I burned the stove in my garage with no flue vent, so presumably achieved
~100% heat efficiency.  The chimney acts as a radiator and the radiant heat
could be felt several feet away.  There was a moderate smell of wood
combustion in the garage - it has a peaked ceiling.  The fuel burned at a
rate of ~20 g/min or ~20,000 Btu/hr.  Pellets would of course burn much
longer.  

The ratio of primary to secondary air is critical in maintaining clean
combustion.  I don't at this level of development recommend burning without a
vent and improved heat exchanger or longer pipe.  However, it may be possible
by insulating the combustion zone to get full combustion and use without a
vent for short periods.  

This is a lot cheaper stove than the pellet stoves ($1,000 - $2,000), but not
as convenient, since it is a batch process.  It makes ~20% charcoal, so when
the volatiles are gone it is important to increase air to burn it - or
extinguish it for later use.  

I describe this in detail because heating is a major problem in many parts of
the world and could become so in the U.S. as the cost of propane and natural
gas rises.  I hope many improvements will be made in this forum.  

STOVERS:  

The initial  intent of this site was discussion of improved cooking stoves.  
However, it seems to me that heating stoves are equally important.  The above
gasifier-heater-stove is quite similar to the natural draft inverted
downdraft (top burning) cooking stove that I worked on from 1985-1998 and
that Ron Larson and I reported on at the Banff "Developments in
Thermochemical Biomass Conversion" conference in May, 1996.
In a message dated 2/8/01 8:58:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, rdboyt@yahoo.com
writes:

Subj:Newspaper Stove
Date:2/8/01 8:58:34 AM Mountain Standard Time
From:    rdboyt@yahoo.com (Richard Boyt)
To:    stoves@crest.org

 

 
Dear Wastepaper Stovers,

   I very much enjoyed Dr. Reed's account of
experiences trying to burn or otherwise recycle
newspapers. I remember that when I delivered carefully
stacked and wrapped bundles of newspapers to the local
salvage center I saw them dumped into a semi trailer
along with great quantities of garbage and other trash
and then head off for the nearest landfill. I decided
to try a tightly rolled log of newsprint as fuel for a
stove. No attempts to adjust combustion air, roll
size, or compaction, caused anything but a few more
outer layers to burn, and that only at the price of
considerable smoke and an unsatisfactory thin layer of
black char before it self extinguished.

  Remembering the feriosity with which I once saw a
standing hollow tree burn, and had having experienced
several scarry flue fires, I formed a hollow cylinder
of newspaper and stood it vertically inside a well
insulated section of stove pipe. I set it on a grate
to admit primary air and and lit it at the inside
bottom. It worked fine until the inside sheets began
to shrink and distort and eventually restrict the flow
of combustion air so completely that it soon flamed
out, smoked copiciously, and finally died out leaving
the bulk of the paper not even scorched. I found that
I could solve the shrink clogging problem by wrapping
the newsprint in multiple layers around a small open
cylinder of hardware cloth 2 1/2 in. diam. and 14 in.
long. It worked very well at first but the high
temperatures reached in this miniature reverberatory
furnace soon destroyed the iron mesh "breather tube".
A replacement tube of expanded stainless steel has now
stood up very well to many very hot firings.

  Starting the inside of the paper roll to burn is
difficult but can be accomplished by coating the
inside layer of paper with a bit of cooking oil or by
dropping flaming strips of thin waxed cardboard down
from the top. I usually get smoke during the lighting
and initial flaming stage as the center cavity emits a
flaming  torch about 18 inches high that at night
lights up the landscape. As the flame dies back, the
inside of the now charred chimney of charred paper
begins to glow as the char is converted to ash.
Looking down inside the cylinder you see a bright
orange column of glowing char/ash. Flowing, sometimes
rippling up the surface of this golden donut is a
faint nearly transparent pale blue/purple film  .No
detectable smoke is given off though a good deal of
heat rises from the glowing tube. It has no odor, does
not sting the eyes, and though I have purposely
inhaled modest quantities of it I have detected no
hint of early carbon monoxide poisoning. Several times
I have brought the glowing stove inside to help heat
the kitchen where it left only a few small fragments
of fly ash.

 Yet another surprise awaits, for after the stove has
cooled, when the now cold breather tube is carefully
removed it brings out with it a multiple of very thin
fragments of white translucent newspaper ash that even
as you watch, breaks away suspended on the slightest
breeze. Once, an unbroken quarter sheet of
diaphanousbreak up in the air. It would be most
difficult to weigh these filaments as they literally
float on air. Total conversion of char to ash is rare
but usually only a couple of palm sized pieces of
charred sheet remain.

  It won't heat your home but it might make a useful
small batch-loaded space heater for a well ventilated
workshop. Hope this proves useful to someone,
Richard Boyt  20479 Panda, Neosho Mo  64850
rdboyt@yahoo.com   

 

Dr. Thomas B. Reed, President, The Biomass Energy Foundation, 1810 Smith Rd.,
Golden, CO 80401
Email reedtb2@cs.com; 303 278 0558 home; 303 278 0560 Fax

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Feb 10 10:12:07 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Optimizing Fuel Volume Density...
Message-ID: <8.1016544b.27b6a55f@cs.com>

We are not often rewarded with the expertise of Tom Miles, but I had the good
fortune to ask a question that he and few others could answer.  The answer
below is as close as you can get to universal truth without passing through
the pearly gates (a one way trip).  

Did you notice how many numerical facts Tom included - and how little
speculation?  Wish all of us could do that.

Note all of Tom Miles qualifications on his fact-and-experience packed
answers.  What's true at large scale may not be true at small scale; what's
true in the U.S. may not be true in India.  And what's true in 2001 may not
be true in 2005.  Times change, and we may be at an energy cusp right now,
and here at Crest we have the luxury of evaluating not only the present
(commercially necessary) but the future in terms of the past (necessary for
continuing civilization).  

When it comes to questions on handling biomass, Tom Miles is the "end of the
line".

Thanks Tom Miles, we'll get back to you on this...

Tom Reed                        (Gasification moderator)               

 

 

 

In a message dated 2/8/01 11:45:09 AM Mountain Standard Time,
tmiles@teleport.com writes:

Tom,

A comment about energy densities. I'll post some information later on my
website.

Industrial and institutional boilers

In our experience the low density of biomass (wood sawdust or chips,
200-300 kg/m3) limits direct blending with coal to about 5% in existing
stoking equipment. In 1979 when we first cofired wet sawdust (up to 67%)
with coal in an institutional boiler (steam 8,000 lb/hr, 1 kg/s) we
designed a separate stoker for firing the wood that gave us control over
the distribution of the wood on the grate, which is important for
combustion control. At the time direct fired wood (including capital and
operating costs, efficiencies, etc.) had a cost advantage of $.32/MMBtu
compared with coal, or about 14% of the coal cost. Wood pellets had a cost
disadvantage compared with coal of $.43/MMBtu, or about 18% more than coal.
The institution used the wood firing tests to negotiate a lower price for
coal. We do have clients who manufacture densified biomass for cofiring
with coal but only in circumstances where disposal costs offset the cost of
densification and delivery to the industrial user.

We recently completed initial tests (1200 tons) of grass in a large
pulverized coal boiler (700 MWe ~900 kg/s). The milled switchgrass weighed
160 kg/m3 (10 lb/ft3) and was fired at rates of 12 to 16 tons per hour. We
displaced 9 tons of coal with 12 tons of grass. Again a separate feed was
used. The justification for co-firing grass or wood with coal today in the
US is environmental (greenhouse gas reduction, regulatory mandates, etc.)
rather than economic.

Domestic and small scale

There are clearly advantages to densification at the small scale if you can
afford it. Densified fuels provide good porosity and control for combustion
at any scale. Densification provides a way of diluting difficult fuels
(high ash, or high in alkali) with cleaner fuels.

Cubing or pelletizing adds about $15-30/ton to the cost of the fuel. In the
US homeowners pay $120-$160/ton for bagged wood stove pellets in our area
and $120-200/ton from sixty plants across the country (See Pellet Fuels
Institute "What do Pellets Cost?"
http://www.pelletheat.org/fuel/fuel.html). (Wood fuel is delivered to
biomass power plants at about $14-$16/ton. Clean wood at $30-40/ton is
bought by the board processing industry and not available for fuel.)

The US production of pellets is about 0.7 million tons per year. (Pellet
Fuels Institute :Where do Pellets Come From?
http://www.pelletheat.org/fuel/fuel.html )

Densities run from 20-35 lb/ft3 (320-560 kg/m3). The effective bulk density
of pellets or cubes in a combustor or gasifier is about 16 lb/ft3 (256
kg/m3). Wood pellets have been used in US coal stokers during periods of
high energy prices (1975-1985).

We have local nurseries that use natural gas and propane for heating
greenhouses. They have been paying about $4.50/MMBtu (GJ) for gas, equal to
about $70/dry ton of wood. The recent 35% increase in natural gas (to
$6/MMBtu equal to about $96/ton of wood) should make wood attractive at
$20-30/ton. But the wood heated greenhouses have been shut down for
pollution control. Densified wood pellets could reduce emissions but are
too expensive at $120/ton ($7.50/MMBtu) even if they have wood burning
equipment.

But in other areas the economies may be different. We have a client in
India who has made firelogs from native grasses and wood for many years.
And in Europe there have been many manufacturers of densification equipment.

Transportation

The optimum density for hauling materials in the US is about 20 lb/ft3 (320
kg/m3). At that point an increase in density does not make use of the
available volume due to payload limits in road transportation.

While densification aids transportation the savings do not usually justify
the cost for fuel applications. We bale and compact 500,000 tons of straw
from our area for export. Our cost of harvesting and transporting the straw
to an industrial plant is about $50/ton at 10 lb/ft3 (160 kg/m3). We
increase the density of the straw from 160 kg/m3 to 320 kg/m3 so that we
can get 20-25 mt in a shipping container. The operation adds about
$30-40/ton in cost which is easily paid for by the feed markets in Asia.
Fuel markets do not support this level of processing costs.

Regards,

Tom

 

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Feb 10 10:12:34 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Insulation Tests
Message-ID: <33.1082a714.27b6a55c@cs.com>

What a pleasure to read about your scientific insulating pottery tests.   

I can hardly wait for Chapter 2.

                                                      ~~~~
Meanwhile I am forwarding this to Gretchen (through Ron) Larson, because she
made similar tests for me last Fall.  

She made two plates (better than cylinders for heat conduction tests? Pay a
torch on one side and see how long you can keep you finger on the other side)
for me incorporating

1) vermiculite (exploded mica, good to 1000 C?)

2) Perlite

We weren't impressed, but our tests were only qualitative.

Your fingers are moderately good at judging thermal condutivity.  Touch a
piece of wood (poor condutor) at 100 C (in your oven).  Then touch a piece of
aluminum (good conductor).   Ouch!

We really do need a good, cheap, pottery insulation if pottery stoves are
going to compete with our nice metal stoves lined with riser sleeves (good to
1600C, rigidizable and about $2-$5 in sizes from 3inch to 12 inch diameter X
12 in tall).  

Onward.......                            TOM REED

Onward..........             TOM REED

In a message dated 2/8/01 1:08:39 PM Mountain Standard Time, rdboyt@yahoo.com
writes:

 
Dear Dean Still, and other Stovers,

Countless past contributions on the subject of
insulations, and particularly the encouragements of
Dean Still and Larry Winiarski of Aprovecho, and Elsen
Karstad at CharDust, prompted explorations into low,
(no) cost, home made, high, medium, and low temp.
stove insulations. As a sometimes potter I saw clay as
a basic starting ingredient, and as we heat and cook
with wood, I saw wood ash and sawdust as promising
additions.

Thirty test samples were made, each starting with  
earthenware clay dug from a pond nearby. Each test
sample contained 30 g. of dry crushed clay that was
then modified by adding quantities of 0 g. to 60 g. of
dry ash in 6 steps, and 0 g. to 20 g. of dry sawdust
in 5 steps. Each sample was then mixed and made
plastic with water, hand molded into a small cylinder,
weighed, measured, dried, weighed, measured, fired to
red heat, weighed, measured, soaked in water, weighed,
measured, and then suspended in water and weighed to
determine volume from which specific weight could be
determined.

The results were promising but incomplete as no tests
have yet been made on more sizable samples to
determine the insulative properties, strength,
abrasion resistance, thermal shock resistance, and
heat durability of the 30 formulas. In general
however, the clay served well as a plasticizer and
medium temp. binder. The ash served as a high temp.
and thermal shock modifier, and the sawdust burned to
char and/or ash to provide small air pockets that
served to reduce weight and so to increase insulative
properties. The tests were designed to permit the
examination of numerous linear and plane blends that
could suggest what might work best under certain
conditions.

  I welcome suggestions on how the investigation
might have been better designed as I would like to
eventually explore combinations of a number of other
materials.

In the meantime I intend to send the test samples
and details of their compositions and testing to Dean
Still who is independentally trying to solve the same
insulation problems using much the same starting
materials that I used.  

 Hoping this might prove useful, sincerely,

Richard Boyt  20479 Panda, Neosho MO  64850
rdboyt@yahoo.com

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Feb 10 10:13:01 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Vedr.: Optimizing Fuel Volume Density... for straw and grass
Message-ID: <cd.22de154.27b6a556@cs.com>

I have never been a great fan of straw and switchgrass as fuels, but I don't
live in Denmark either.  Your point is well taken for this particular form of
biomass.

However, baling is a form of densification and may be sufficient for straw,
since you clever Danes have invented a number of "bale burners".  

What isn't economical today may be a necessity some day, so we need to
investigate all possibilities.

Wood pellets cost ~ $50/ton, made using unimproved technology.  Yet
homeownders are willing to pay ~$120/ton in the form of 20 kg bags of pellets
for the convenience of using pellet stoves.  And a "wood pellet famine" is
developing here in the U.S. with this cold winter.

So, keep your straw options open.  You may have to eat your words.

Onward........    TOM REED
Dear all

the alternative to densifying biomass is off course to use a system for
firing biomass that uses the un-densified biomass and then compare the
economics of the two options. We have found that it is very difficult to
justify the densification costs. One of the problems in our country is that
we have an effective working time in the field for densifying straw of only
about 300 hour per year (for switchgrass it may be higher when harvested
during winter time). Therefore we prefer to use Hesston bales and install a
dedicated handling system for Hesston bales. The bales are used either in a
biomass boiler plant or as fuel for co-firing.

It may be possible to densify the straw after baling but we do not consider
this option as feasible compared with the dedicated handling system for
baling

Jens Clausen
TECH-WISE (formerly ELSAMPROJEKT)
Denmark

 

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Feb 10 10:13:07 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: GAS-L: small scale pelletisers
Message-ID: <6e.7a794e3.27b6a558@cs.com>

I have dreamed about small scale pelletizers for 25 years, and I grind my
teeth every time I mow my lawn or discard my trash.

I bought a GE "Trashmasher" in the 1981 and made "grassbricks" to burn in my
fireplace.  I woke up at midnight to the most awful stink from their
fermenting.  Put them outside.  Let them dry.  Burned one in Winter.  Another
awful stink and only smouldered.   Maybe if I had tried my wastepaper it
would have been OK.  

The little lab pellet mill needs a 2 hp motor to make 25-50 lb/hr of pellets.
This must tell you something about the power and strength needed to make
pellets.  Others have tried with little success to beat this game.  

On the other hand charcoal briquettes only require sticking together with
starch etc.  

So....      if you find an easy way, let me know, because densification is an
important part of biomass energy utilization.  Love my pellets.

TOM REED                            BEF

In a message dated 2/8/01 1:59:22 PM Mountain Standard Time,
fractional@willmar.com writes:

 

Is there any one on this list that has produced small scale (5-20-100
hp) pelletisers or has an interest in them?  I am not talking of 'lab'
machines but personal use pelletisers or cubers.  1" squares or rounds.
Perhaps smaller but that would make for more work most likely.  I am not
trying to simulate production from big machines.

 The rotary 1200 hp pelletisers are beyond my needs thank you.  A
stuffer type would be the simplest perhaps.  Using existing junk farm
equipment for drives.

 A fellow on the Stoves list, from Africa, has made a charcoal log
extruder for charcoal dust out of what looks like a large meat grinder.
Uses starch or something as a binder.  An English company makes a log
extruder for waste bio materials, could a 1" log extruder be built along
those lines with out machining a complex screw?

 At 20-100 hp I am speaking of gas engine power.

Thanks,

Alan

 

 

Dr. Thomas B. Reed, President, The Biomass Energy Foundation, 1810 Smith Rd.,
Golden, CO 80401
Email reedtb2@cs.com; 303 278 0558 home; 303 278 0560 Fax

Dr. Thomas B. Reed, Principal Scientist,
The Community Power Corporation, 1810 Smith Rd., Golden CO 80401
Reedtb2@cs.com; 303 278 0558

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Feb 10 11:08:36 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: GHG vs GC
Message-ID: <8b.23949bc.27b6b28b@cs.com>

(For those who don't like GHG concern, substitute regular fossil fuels
depletion, it leads to the same conclusion).

Dear AW and ALL:

I am very skeptical about the longrange affects of greenhouse gases on our
future ... could be good or bad.

I am absolutely commited to saving a little fossil fuel for my 7
grandchildren (GC) and finding long range substitutes.

So, this leads to the same conclusion.  Develop alternative energy as fast as
possible to extend the birthright fossil fuels.  (I doubt if Bush would
agree, having a more Decamaron attitude:  Eat, drink and be merry, for
tomorrow we will die.  Not me.)

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Feb 10 11:08:45 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: BioC: Re: Optimizing Fuel Volume Density...
Message-ID: <20.11dc6b10.27b6b28d@cs.com>

Wow! Two essays from two experts in one day.  I'm learning to spell
"Weststeijin".  I guess the Dutch are so smart because they had to learn to
speak and spell their own language.  

I started out to make a similar table the other day when discussing Mass and
Volume fuel densities.

First I discovered that we don't even have these names in our vocabularies!  
So, I fabricated "Mass Fuel Density" and "Volume Fuel Density" from a few
words I had on hand.  Can it be that this far into the industrial revolution
no one has needed these names before.  I would be happy to find better
substitutes.

Then I  gave up on the table because MFD and VFD weren't in any indexes and I
could see that it would take a day to collect the data that was all over the
place.  And it's mostly site specific, involving packing densities, fuel
variations, ... which need to be specified for a numberical answer.  

Now comes the expert assessments.  Thanks a big bunch Andreis Weststeijn and
Tom Miles ...

TOM REED

4. NUMERICAL COMPARION of FUEL DATA (in metric)

COAL
loose bulk density = 850 kg/m3 (in pile)
energy density CV= 24 MJ/kg = 24 GJ/ton
volumetric density = 850 kg/m3*24 MJ/kg
volumetric density = 20400 MJ/m3
volumetric density = 20.4 GJ/m3

LOOSE DRY SAWDUST
loose bulk density = 200 kg/m3
energy density CV= 18 MJ/kg (assume dry)
volumetric density =200 kg/m3*18 MJ/kg
volumetric density = 3600 MJ/m3
volumetric density =  3.6 GJ/m3

REGULAR WOOD PELLETS
"solid" density = 1.3 g/cc
"solid" density = 1300 kg/m3
in pile: void coefficient = 50%
loose bulk density = 650 kg/m3
energy density CV= 18 MJ/kg (assume dry)
volumetric density =650 kg/m3*18 MJ/kg
volumetric density = 11700 MJ/m3
volumetric density = 11.7 GJ/m3

THERMALLY UPGRADED WOOD PELLETS
"solid" density = 1.3 g/cc
"solid" density = 1300 kg/m3
in pile: void coefficient = 50%
loose bulk density = 650 kg/m3
energy density CV= 22 MJ/kg (assume)
volumetric density =650 kg/m3*22 MJ/kg
volumetric density = 14300 MJ/m3
volumetric density = 14.3 GJ/m3

Comparison:
coal = ..................................... 20.4 GJ/m3
loose dry sawdust = .............. 3.6 GJ/m3 or 18% of coal
regular wood pellets = ........ 11.7 GJ/m3 or 57% of coal
therm.upgraded pellets =......14.3 GJ/m3 or 70% of coal

Relative volumetric energy density:
coal = .....................................   1.00
loose dry sawdust = .............. 0.18
regular wood pellets = .......... 0.57
therm.upgraded pellets =......  0.70

And examples and subconclusions and conclusions.  Wow!

Thanks Andries,               TOM REED

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sun Feb 11 21:29:17 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Briquettes vs Densified pellets, cubes, logs..
Message-ID: <a7.ba39dfe.27b8957c@cs.com>

Why pellets is a good question, but briquettes are not the answer.  

I'm not sure this definition is official, but I understand "briquette" to
mean a compact shape made from a semi liquid mix - as in making rolls from
dough, or as in making charcoal briquettes from charcoal and starch.  A
"pillow briquetter" requires very little power to turn out those pillow
shapes.

Wood is 2/3 air, 1/3 fuel.  Pellets, cubes and logs are made by applying
about 10,000 psi to force the feed through small enough holes to squeeze out
the air and generate enough heat to soften the lignin and other components to
hold the final item together.  Typically requires 100 hp-hr/ton.  

for the gory details and costs, visit

http://www.reap.ca/Reports/pelletaug2000.html

So, sorry, but briquetting is in another amateur league.

TOM REED

In a message dated 2/10/01 5:02:44 PM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net
writes:

 

At 04:17 PM 2/10/2001 -0600, Jim Dunham wrote:
>Why pellets?  Briquettes are far cheaper and easier to make and to
maintain.
>Briquettes can be made with hydraulics, ram & die, or screw presses. Power
>source can be virtually anything with sufficient muscle.
>
>Jim Dunham
>EEC
>

Hi Jim;

Love the briquettes idea. OK gasifiers -- what size "briquette" would you
like to have??

Also -- one would think that with properly heated molds of correct design
(to vent) one could pyrolize the biomass resulting in many wonderful little
"Torrefied" briquettes. The gasses of torrefaction could be burned to
supply the steam, super heat the molds -- and probably extra electrical
power -- all at the same time.

Now gasifiers -- can you "work" a gasifier with torrefied briquettes -- or
are they to dry? (Shades of charcoal gasifiers as of WWII design??)

Peter / Belize

 

 

From jaakko.saastamoinen at vtt.fi Mon Feb 12 09:01:05 2001
From: jaakko.saastamoinen at vtt.fi (Jaakko Saastamoinen)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Newspaper Stove
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010212150029.009ca400@vttmail.vtt.fi>

Hi all,

the newpaper stove and the stove described below by
John Davies resemble much the so called (timber)
jack's candle. One can burn a single large
piece of wood outside on snow ground at cold weather.
Such wooden candles also sold at Christmas time
and burnt outside small houses. One construction is a
cylindric wood log with a hole in the centre, but other
constructions are also possible. The two important
things for good burning are that one has burning
surfaces opposing each other so that radiation losses
are low and that the density difference due to
heating of the gas causes a gas flow bringing fresh
air for the burning.

With similar principle it is also possible to construct
a large long stove to warm a group of people outdoors in
the winter from whole trunks. It is called "rakovalkea"
in Finnish. The first part of this word "rako" means a
crack and "valkea" means fire. The crack with two opposing
burning surfaces is essential to have good burning. This
is a simple stove that one constructs in situ from the
fuel itself needing no additional construction material.

Regards,

Jaakko Saastamoinen

 

At 20:18 11.2.2001 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>Now we see a variation of the sawdust stove!
>
>To my mind, we see the fuel being totally gasified ( lack of a better term )
>in one stage, with the resulting gas being burned very close to the source
>and radiating heat back to gasification site to keep the reaction going.
>
>This leads me to the thought that it should also work with, wood chips,
>tightly packed twigs or a host of other bio-mass. So simple, and yet total
>combustion. I feel that with a little advancement, this could be the
>forerunner of a simple domestic heating system, burning what ever bio-mass
>is available.
>
>The combustion container could be made to connect to the underside of the
>heating appliance, with a quick coupling device. With several charges on
>standby, this could be changed and re-lit when necessary. A little more
>trouble than changing an empty propane cylinder, but the fuel is free.
>
>This will definitely be my first project in bio-mass heating, It will be
>interesting to see what fuels will work, and in what form.
>
>Has anybody done any tests with the sawdust stove ?
>
>Regards,
>John Davies.
>
>
>
>> > Subj:Newspaper Stove
>> > Date:2/8/01 8:58:34 AM Mountain Standard Time
>> > From: rdboyt@yahoo.com (Richard Boyt)
>> > To: stoves@crest.org
>> > Remembering the feriosity with which I once saw a
>> > standing hollow tree burn, ..............
>
>. As the flame dies back, the
>> > inside of the now charred chimney of charred paper
>> > begins to glow as the char is converted to ash.
>> > Looking down inside the cylinder you see a bright
>> > orange column of glowing char/ash. Flowing, sometimes
>> > rippling up the surface of this golden donut is a
>> > faint nearly transparent pale blue/purple film .No
>> > detectable smoke is given off though a good deal of
>> > heat rises from the glowing tube. It has no odor, does
>> > not sting the eyes, .....................
>
>
>
>Gasification List is sponsored by
>USDOE BioPower Program http://www.eren.doe.gov/biopower/
>and PRM Energy Systems http://www.prmenergy.com
>-
>Other Sponsors, Archives and Information
>http://www.nrel.gov/bioam/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/gasification-list-archive
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>
>
>
__________________________________________
Jaakko Saastamoinen
VTT Energy
Box 1603, 40101 Jyvaskyla
Finland
phone +358 14 672 547, fax +358 14 672 596
__________________________________________

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Feb 12 11:18:17 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Newspaper Stove
Message-ID: <14.f94e365.27b957af@cs.com>

The newspaper stove, the sawdust stove (AKA Boyscout, Girlscout stove), the
solid log "timber jack candle" and maybe the toilet paper/alcohol stove, all
described recently here are worthy of further testing and research for
heat/cooking/light.  (I've seen stoves of similar nature demonstrated by
Mukunda at IISc and Grover at IITDelhi in India.)

Jaako puts his finger on one necessity:  Having opposing radiating surfaces
which reduce heat loss at the gasifying (or burning) surface, permitting the
draft to draw combustion air through the central hole and forming an annular
clean flame - sometimes.  

Various questions:

1)  Is it a pyrolytic very close coupled gasifier with the gases emerging
from the inside of the hollow fuel tube and mixing with central air by
diffusion?  

2)  Would addition of a small chimney, once the reaction is established  help?

3)  Should you have a valve or plug at the bottom to permit limiting the air
flow in?  

I'm sure we can all think of many more questions, but I hope you realists
will try out various modifications and fuels.  

Yours firebug..            TOM REED

PS John asks if any of the several hundred stovers here have tried the
sawdust stove?  I tried it several weeks ago with sawdust from my table saw.  
It packed very nicely without having to wet it, but when I lit it (with IPA
of course) it smouldered and went out as soon as the IPA was burned.  It's
still sitting on my workbench.  (My garage lab is too cold, and most of my
tests these days are in my basement - with a water spray fire extinguisher
handy in case of smokeout.)

At the time I attributed it to the small particle sawdust and the fact that
no air could pass THROUGH the sawdust.  However, maybe all the air for
pyrolysis/gasification/combustion comes up the center.  In that case, maybe
needs better draft.  Or maybe I'll just try again.  

In a message dated 2/12/01 5:58:29 AM Mountain Standard Time,
jaakko.saastamoinen@vtt.fi writes:
Hi all,

the newpaper stove and the stove described below by
John Davies resemble much the so called (timber)
jack's candle. One can burn a single large
piece of wood outside on snow ground at cold weather.
Such wooden candles also sold at Christmas time
and burnt outside small houses. One construction is a
cylindric wood log with a hole in the centre, but other
constructions are also possible. The two important
things for good burning are that one has burning
surfaces opposing each other so that radiation losses
are low and that the density difference due to
heating of the gas causes a gas flow bringing fresh
air for the burning.

With similar principle it is also possible to construct
a large long stove to warm a group of people outdoors in
the winter from whole trunks. It is called "rakovalkea"
in Finnish. The first part of this word "rako" means a
crack and "valkea" means fire. The crack with two opposing
burning surfaces is essential to have good burning. This
is a simple stove that one constructs in situ from the
fuel itself needing no additional construction material.     

Regards,

Jaakko Saastamoinen

 

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Feb 12 11:18:47 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: GAS-L: small scale pelletisers
Message-ID: <6d.f54c44c.27b957bb@cs.com>

While your charcoal was a "pellet" in the general sense, the current use in
fuels is for wood etc. extruded under very high pressure (10,000 psi) from  
holes or through rotary knives to make pellets, cubes and logs.

I would call your charcoal fuel a "briquette" and they can be made by hand or
by rolling with starch solution.  Little pressure required, since the
pyrolysis process has broken down the open spongy nature of wood.

However, I don't think most people make this distinction -until they buy a
briquetter and find it wont make pellets.

TOM REED

In a message dated 2/12/01 1:27:47 AM Mountain Standard Time,
reecon@mitsuminet.com writes:

Hallow Stovers,
While at IIT Delhi, we developed a very simple and very effective
pelletizer for charcoal dust that uses clay as a binder. The only problem
with the pelletizer is that the pellets need a specially made to fit stove.
If interested i could sent the drawing, although i would need to clear with
my professor first.
Musungu.

----- Original

 

 

From costaeec at kcnet.com Mon Feb 12 12:18:08 2001
From: costaeec at kcnet.com (costaeec)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Briquettes vs Densified pellets, cubes, logs..
In-Reply-To: <a7.ba39dfe.27b8957c@cs.com>
Message-ID: <000101c0950f$013e92e0$0f65f0d1@hppav>

 

I am not sure where to find the 'official'
definition of briquette, any more the an official definition of most terms used
in unconventional and/or evolving technologies such as those being
discussed and developed on this forum.

The briquettes we refer to are certainly not "rolls
made from dough"! They are simply large diameter pellets, or  'pucks'
formed with heat and pressure and can be as hard as concrete. Most raw materials
require no binder. They have been in use for at least 58 years. Most certainly
not applicable in all situations, but the key component in many.

So, if all those who use briquetting to great
advantage are "amateur's" , then please advise us all as to the professional way
to accomplish their objectives.
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
Reedtb2@cs.com
To: <A title=snkm@btl.net
href="mailto:snkm@btl.net">snkm@btl.net ; <A title=gasification@crest.org
href="mailto:gasification@crest.org">gasification@crest.org
Cc: <A title=stoves@crest.org
href="mailto:stoves@crest.org">stoves@crest.org
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 7:25
PM
Subject: Briquettes vs Densified pellets,
cubes, logs..
Dear Peter, Jim and
All: Why pellets is a good question, but briquettes are not the
answer.   I'm not sure this definition is official, but I
understand "briquette" to mean a compact shape made from a semi liquid mix
- as in making rolls from dough, or as in making charcoal briquettes from
charcoal and starch.  A "pillow briquetter" requires very little
power to turn out those pillow shapes. Wood is 2/3 air, 1/3 fuel.
Pellets, cubes and logs are made by applying about 10,000 psi to
force the feed through small enough holes to squeeze out the air and
generate enough heat to soften the lignin and other components to hold the
final item together.  Typically requires 100 hp-hr/ton.  
for the gory details and costs, visit
http://www.reap.ca/Reports/pelletaug2000.html So, sorry, but
briquetting is in another amateur league. TOM REED In a
message dated 2/10/01 5:02:44 PM Mountain Standard Time, snkm@btl.net
writes: <FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">At 04:17 PM 2/10/2001 -0600, Jim Dunham wrote: >Why
pellets?  Briquettes are far cheaper and easier to make and to
maintain. >Briquettes can be made with hydraulics, ram & die,
or screw presses. Power >source can be virtually anything with
sufficient muscle. > >Jim Dunham >EEC >
Hi Jim; Love the briquettes idea. OK gasifiers -- what size
"briquette" would you like to have?? Also -- one would think
that with properly heated molds of correct design (to vent) one could
pyrolize the biomass resulting in many wonderful little "Torrefied"
briquettes. The gasses of torrefaction could be burned to supply the
steam, super heat the molds -- and probably extra electrical power --
all at the same time. Now gasifiers -- can you "work" a gasifier
with torrefied briquettes -- or are they to dry? (Shades of charcoal
gasifiers as of WWII design??) Peter / Belize
<FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">

From lennart.ljungblom at novator.se Tue Feb 13 03:36:01 2001
From: lennart.ljungblom at novator.se (Lennart Ljungblom)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: pellets-briquetts in Sweden
Message-ID: <3A88E28F.98BFAFFB@novator.se>

In Sweden the pelletsmarket expands rapidly.
We have moore than 25 pelletsfactories in Sweden and there is almost as
many in the surronding nordic and baltic countries.
The trade with pellets cross the borders is also rapidly increasing. The
reason for that is of course the economy. The reason for that is
increased oil and gasprices.
The briquett market on the other hand is not groving. Wood briquets are
mainly produced in small scale operations with no dryers. We do however
also have one large briquett factory (100.000 t/y) with peat and sawdust
as rawmaterial.
Acording to european nomenclatur pellets have a diameter less than 25
mm. Briquets are larger.
Another difference of moore practical nature is that pellets are milled
to a much finer size than the briquetts. The initial cost to build a
pelletsfactory are larger and needs a larger yearly output to become
economically interesting.
In real life, pellets can be handled moore easy and the investment cost
for transporting, handling and use in a fully automised system is much
less than for briquets. They have to be handled in a way similar with fuelchips.
There are moore than 20 different types of pelletsburners directed to
the small house market in Sweden. You can get a payoff time less than
three years if You convert from oil to pellets.
Yours Lennart Ljungblom, publisher of magazine Bioenergy.
info@novator.se

begin:vcard
n:Ljungblom;Lennart
tel;cell:070-7390105
tel;fax:+46-8-4417089/+46-8-560 31843
tel;home:+46-8-560 31843
tel;work:+46-8-441 7090
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://www.novator.se
org:Bioeenrgi Förlags/Novator
version:2.1
email;internet:lennart.ljungblom@novator.se
adr;quoted-printable:;;Torsgatan 12=0D=0AS-111 23 Stockholm;;;;
x-mozilla-cpt:;1
fn:Lennart Ljungblom
end:vcard

 

From rdboyt at yahoo.com Fri Feb 16 08:47:43 2001
From: rdboyt at yahoo.com (Richard Boyt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Insulation Tests II, Light weight fill
Message-ID: <20010216134746.6264.qmail@web614.mail.yahoo.com>


Dear Dean Still, Ken Boyer, Dr. Reed, the Ottos and
other stovers,

The longest journey starts with but a single step.
But then, so does the shortest. May have taken a few
small steps toward hand-made, light weight, low (no)
cost, medium temperature (1000+ deg. F), castable
(ramable), ceramic composites of more or less rigid
materials that could serve as insulative fill for the
spaces surrounding a combustion chamber. They are
based on a common earthenware clay dug from a small
pond a couple hundred feet or so up our valley,
Pottershop Hollow. Current tests are compositions that
vary in steps from 3 parts clay and 1 part sawdust, to
1 part clay and 2 parts sawdust, (dry weights). More
clay in the combinations increases strength and
durability, but decreases thermal shock resistance and
insulation. More sawdust increases insulative
qualities and thermal shock resistance, while
decreasing weight, strength, and durability.

To make, add water and mix to a moldable
consistency, shape, dry completely and then take to
red heat long enough to convert sawdust to char and,
if possible, char to ash. Fire with with wood or gas,
as the reducing atmosphere of burning sawdust/char may
prove damaging (arcing) to the elements an electric
kiln.

Presently shaping 1 in. thick by 3 in. diam. discs
that can be compared as insulations, even as hand held
samples using a propane torch, as suggested by Dr.
Reed. Exploring possibility of laminating layers of
different recipes to taylor the strength, refractive
heat and shock resistance to a particular problem.
Thus a combustion chamber, its insulation, and the
outer casing of a stove might be cast and fired as a
single piece.

Also working on higher temp. (1500+ deg. F) ceramic
combustion chamber liners, but that's a tougher
problem and I'm not sure my native clay will cut it
without modifying with a more refractive material
that buffers extreme thermal shock, like wood ash,
pumice, or fire clay. Allowance for shrink, both in
drying and in firing must also be considered.
Delighted to hear that Dean Still and Ken Goyer of
Aprovecho are closing in on success with an improved
ceramic combustion chamber for Dr. Winiarski's Rocket
stove.

Hope someone can use some of this. My steps are as
small as the kitchen table and the living room wood
stove where most of this takes place.
Respectfully,
Richard (Dick) Boyt 20479 Panda, Neosho MO USA
rdboyt@yahoo.com

 

 

 

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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sat Feb 17 09:15:57 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Insulation Tests II, Light weight fill
Message-ID: <9f.11552ea8.27bfe174@cs.com>

Can't you get BOTH durability and good insulation by putting a thin wash of
the base clay on the outside of the sawdusty insulator?

Ron:  

Pass this on to Gretchen.

I'm joining the Lake Powell Oct. 5 team.  Heard about your thumb....  I'll
bring a Turbo Stove along to do all our cooking.

TOM REED

In a message dated 2/16/01 6:48:10 AM Mountain Standard Time,
rdboyt@yahoo.com writes:

  Dear Dean Still, Ken Boyer, Dr. Reed, the Ottos and
other stovers,

The longest journey starts with but a single step.
But then, so does the shortest. May have taken a few
small steps toward hand-made, light weight, low (no)
cost, medium temperature (1000+ deg. F), castable
(ramable), ceramic composites of more or less rigid
materials that could serve as insulative fill for the
spaces surrounding a combustion chamber. They are
based on a common earthenware clay dug from a small
pond a couple hundred feet or so up our valley,
Pottershop Hollow. Current tests are compositions that
vary in steps from 3 parts clay and 1 part sawdust, to
1 part clay and 2 parts sawdust, (dry weights). More
clay in the combinations increases strength and
durability, but decreases thermal shock resistance and
insulation. More sawdust increases insulative
qualities and thermal shock resistance, while
decreasing weight, strength, and durability.    

 To make, add water and mix to a moldable
consistency, shape, dry completely and then take to
red heat long enough to convert sawdust to char and,
if possible, char to ash. Fire with with wood or gas,
as the reducing atmosphere of burning sawdust/char may
prove damaging (arcing) to the elements an electric
kiln.  

 Presently shaping 1 in. thick by 3 in. diam. discs
that can be compared as insulations, even as hand held
samples using a propane torch, as suggested by Dr.
Reed. Exploring possibility of laminating layers of
different recipes to taylor the strength, refractive
heat and shock resistance to a particular problem.
Thus a combustion chamber, its insulation, and the
outer casing of a stove might be cast and fired as a
single piece.     

 Also working on higher temp. (1500+ deg. F) ceramic
combustion chamber liners, but that's a tougher
problem and I'm not sure my native clay will cut it
without  modifying with a more refractive material
that buffers extreme thermal shock, like wood ash,
pumice, or fire clay. Allowance for shrink, both in
drying and in firing must also be considered.
Delighted to hear that Dean Still and Ken Goyer of
Aprovecho are closing in on success with an improved
ceramic combustion chamber for Dr. Winiarski's Rocket
stove.

 Hope someone can use some of this. My steps are as
small as the kitchen table and the living room wood
stove where most of this takes place.
Respectfully,
Richard (Dick) Boyt 20479 Panda, Neosho MO USA  
rdboyt@yahoo.com   

 

 

From kjove at abc.se Sat Feb 17 13:59:24 2001
From: kjove at abc.se (Kjell-Ove Martinsson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Traeger Indistries
Message-ID: <001f01c09913$b8d57880$020044c0@nsb.norrkoping.se>

http://www.traegerindustries.com/

I have been trying to get information from these guys, but I get no answer to my repeated requests. Has anybody on the list been in touch with them?

Regards,

Kjell-Ove Martinsson

 

From dstill at epud.org Sat Feb 17 15:46:07 2001
From: dstill at epud.org (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Homemade refractory ceramic insulation
Message-ID: <00130213a319$02a5f9a0$33acefd8@default>

Dear Richard Boyt and Friends,

Dr. Larry Winiarski developed the Rocket principles of stove design more
than 15 years ago. One of his major intents was to burn up smoke, so he
tried to raise temperatures in the combustion chamber. He did this by
locating it under a super insulated short chimney within the stove body,
insulating the combustion chamber, limiting excess air, preheating primary
air, forcing the user to meter fuel and form a grate out of the sticks as
they were pushed into the combustion chamber. What smoke escaped the
combustion chamber had a good chance of burning up in flame contained in the
chimney.

Creating high temperatures decreased the longevity of materials used within
the envelope of insulation. Even stainless steel would degrade after
prolonged exposure to high temperatures. It was necessary to use thicker
steel to provide a reasonable working life before replacement. Larry tried
many different materials looking for a low cost, available Rocket elbow.
(Please check out the Aprovecho homepage for diagrams: www.efn.org/~apro ).

For three years Larry and other Aprovecho consultants have been working with
Trees, Water and People and HELPS, International designing, testing and
helping to install Rocket type stoves with chimneys in Central America. As a
part of this effort, Ken Goyer , a Board member and consultant with
Aprovecho, has been investigating homemade insulative refractory mixes using
clay dug up our backyard. His recipes are fairly simple combining different
parts of fire clay, cement, sawdust and found clay. The small amount of
cement is used to hold the material together until it is fired.

Ken has produced about 75 bricks . The best samples are very light weight,
strong and seem durable. We have tested them by heating the brick until red
hot on a stove and then throwing it in a bucket of cold water, then
reheating the brick and repeating the process. Several mixes have withstood
this procedure and remain unbroken after days of testing.

We made a combustion chamber and short internal chimney in the shape of an L
(the Rocket elbow) from Ken's best bricks. We compared its performance with
an 1/8th" thick cast iron elbow that had the same height, shape and internal
diameter. Both elbows, weighing about 8 pounds each, were placed in a
container filled with perlite. Three litres of water were boiled in each
test. This Rocket stove using a insulated skirt around the pot and the
insulative elbow boiled the water in 14 minutes and was 42% efficient. The
cast iron elbow boiled the water in 24 minutes and was 36% efficient. A
pound and a quarter of dry fir was used in each test.

The high mass elbow absorbed heat initially and slowed performance and
decreased overall efficiency of the stove in a test that took about 50
minutes to complete.

Both Trees, Water and People and HELPS, International are interested in
testing the new refractory mixture for acceptability and durability in
Central America. We will continue to develop the material here at Aprovecho.
Our hope is that a homemade, insulative, ceramic refractory material will
make low cost, low emission and fuel efficient stoves available to more
people.

I'm very interested in the other ceramic stove liners in use, especially the
Jiko. Do list members have experience making this or other ceramic stove
parts? Can you share recipes, longevity, problems, etc. Thanks very much!

 

Dean Still
Aprovecho

 

From rdboyt at yahoo.com Mon Feb 19 11:34:08 2001
From: rdboyt at yahoo.com (Richard Boyt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Insulation III, light weight fill
Message-ID: <20010219163405.1357.qmail@web618.mail.yahoo.com>


Hello Dean Still, Ken Goyer, Dr Reed, and stovers,

For each answer found, more questions seem to
appear. Insulations made of a clay/sawdust mix seem
simple enough but what size(s) sawdust, how dry, how
fresh, and from what kind of wood? Which clay, how
plastic, what size(s) particles, how much green
(unfired) strength, bisque (fired) strength? What
temperature and how much time to fire on how large a
mass to mature, to convert sawdust to char, and char
to ash? How much drying and firing shrinkage, heat
shock resistance, and insulative properties?

Clay,-- dig it or buy it. Pure clay is very rare,
but when found mixed with other minerals is a common
and quite variable material. Check with local potters.
Clay used for slip casting is generally not plastic
(moldable) enough and has poor green strength. In
general, fire clays also lack plasticity, though many
stonewares and terra-cottas are very good. Plasticity
is largely dependent on particle size and shape.
Plastic clays are generally made up of many
microscopic platelets that interlock a bit like a
clump of playing cards. The down side is that greater
plasticity often means greater shrink and lower heat
tolerance.

Clay used to make common red brick or tile can
sometimes be found at a lumber yard where it is sold
to color cement. Clay used by potters for wheel
throwing, slab, or coil building may be very good. If
you dig your own, -- dry, pulverize, water soak to a
slip (slush), fine screen (I use 100/in. mesh), dry,
and pulverize. Then reconstitute with water and test
for plasticity. A lot of time and work.

Sawdust,-- scrounge for it or cut it yourself. If
you cut, -- a sharp chain saw makes chips, a dull one
makes dust. Ripping makes strands, cross-cutting makes
chips, round blade-sawmills make large chips, while
band-sawmills make small ones. Dry and screen (kitchen
strainer) sawdust for for size. An optimum mix of
small, medium, and large particles may be like the
mixing of concrete for maximum strength. You could use
crushed and screened char to make char/clay but char
doesn't shrink as it dries. I reason that both clay
and sawdust do shrink as they dry which might protect
the clay from micro-cracking.

Mixing clay and sawdust,-- weigh and soak the clay
to a smooth slip. Pre-soak the sawdust and combine
with the liquid clay. Dry to a shaping consistency.
Shape and dry the mix in such manner that the clay
does not settle out away from the sawdust.

Firing,-- kiln or wood fire to red, orange, or
yellow heat depending on the results desired. Be
warned that the elements of an electric kiln may be
damaged by the smoke given off by sawdust going to
char. A wood fire works best by nesting in glowing
coals rather than heating with flame. Clay maturation
and conversion of the sawdust to char or ash is
dependent on both temp. and time held at temp.

Results to date are mildly encouraging. Hand held
torch heated discs of fired clay/sawdust (approx.7/8
in. by 2 3/4 in. diam.), compare quite favorably as
insulation with a similarly sized and shaped disc of
commercial light weight soft insulating brick. Discs
made of 1 part clay and up to 2 parts sawdust (by
weight) can weigh as little as 1/3 the weight of
commercial insulating brick, though at a considerable
sacrifice in both strength and high temperature
tolerance. My hope is that clay/sawdust might prove
useful as a light weight insulation fill for stoves
and retorts.

If anyone is interested I will mail a limited number
of samples of materials and/or fired discs for
testing. Hope this proves of some use to someone.
Sincerely,
Richard (Dick) Boyt 20479 Panda, Neosho MO USA 64850
rdboyt@yahoo.com

 

 

 

 

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From ronallarson at qwest.net Mon Feb 19 17:33:29 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Update on personal recent activities
Message-ID: <007601c09ac3$d11fdb40$6bafa0d8@computer>

 

Stovers:
I am back with an interest again
in stoves topics.  The last several months have been hectic
for several reasons -

1.  The "kak" virus slowed me down
considerably.  I have been assured by several people that my messages that
used to be rejected are now acceptable.  I seriously believe that this
message is not infected - and again will apologize profusely if I infect anyone
else.  I have learned the heard way that one has to keep one's anti-virus
capabilities current.

2.  Just as big a problem has been finishing
up a project started 15 months ago - to try to get our local utility (formerly
Public Service of Colorado - now Xcel, after merging with Northern States Power
of Minnesota) to add some wind into base rates.  We finished our final
"pleading last week - and are supposed to get our final answer from three
appointed commissioners this Friday.  I'll let you know the
results.

3.   I am using both a different computer
and a different server (note change of address) - I found it pretty easy to put
things off..

4.      There have been a
few other local projects to work on as well.

5.  I am part way through many unread
messages.  If anyone knows of a specific request that I've failed to
respond to, please try again.

Ron

From english at adan.kingston.net Mon Feb 19 21:06:46 2001
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Update on personal recent activities
In-Reply-To: <007601c09ac3$d11fdb40$6bafa0d8@computer>
Message-ID: <200102200201.VAA11852@adan.kingston.net>

Hi Ron,

A virus nailed my electron processor too. I lost two thirds of my
pictures from India, and a whole lot more. A virtual loss I suppose.

On another topic;
I think both you and AJH were interested in the CO and CO2 content
of the pyrolysis gas before the burner with my top down pyrolyser. I
just ran a test using pellets and came up with 15% CO and 20% CO2
(+/- 2 or 3%).

Alex

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Mon Feb 19 21:51:46 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Update on personal recent activities
In-Reply-To: <200102200201.VAA11852@adan.kingston.net>
Message-ID: <01db01c09ae8$8d2869a0$847be13f@computer>

Alex -

Any idea what the virus was? (I haven't heard that "kak" impacted
files - and sure hope I wan't involved in your loss.

Are you taking precautions now with good virus detectors?

On the measurements - I'm very surprised that CO2 was that high. I'll
try to get back to making that measurement - but believe I had much less in
the one measurement I made a while back. I remember AJH suggesting that he
expected a reaction between C and CO2 to give CO. Could there have been
some reason that you were not experiencing that reaction?

What weight % carbon or charcoal were you obtaining? Do you agree
that you generally would not want that much CO2 in a charcoal-making,
top-down stove?

Anybody else have this measurment?

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: *.English <english@adan.kingston.net>
To: Ron Larson <ronallarson@qwest.net>
Cc: <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Update on personal recent activities

> Hi Ron,
>
> A virus nailed my electron processor too. I lost two thirds of my
> pictures from India, and a whole lot more. A virtual loss I suppose.
>
> On another topic;
> I think both you and AJH were interested in the CO and CO2 content
> of the pyrolysis gas before the burner with my top down pyrolyser. I
> just ran a test using pellets and came up with 15% CO and 20% CO2
> (+/- 2 or 3%).
>
> Alex
>
>

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Tue Feb 20 13:14:27 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Fw: [Ian Bywater <bywateri@caverock.net.nz>] on sawdust burners
Message-ID: <053801c09b69$37804b40$847be13f@computer>

Ian - Thanks for this much delayed message (my time constraints recently).
Please let me know if you would like to join "stoves". I think many on the
list would like to have a brief description of the technologiy (sizes,
prices, power out, motor sizes, completemess of combustion, etc.

----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-stoves@crest.org>
To: <stoves-approval@crest.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 2:57 PM
Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from [Ian Bywater
<bywateri@caverock.net.nz>]

> From stoves-owner Wed Jan 17 16:57:33 2001
> Received: from central.caverock.net.nz (central.caverock.net.nz
[210.55.207.1])
> by crest.solarhost.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28742
> for <stoves@crest.org>; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:57:31 -0500
> Received: from [210.55.206.56] (tc1-56.caverock.net.nz [210.55.206.56])
> by central.caverock.net.nz (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0HLUEa17699;
> Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:30:15 +1300
> User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:42:59 +1300
> Subject: Re: Charcoal
> From: Ian Bywater <bywateri@caverock.net.nz>
> To: John Flottvik <jovick@island.net>, <tnntpr@hermes.tue.ni>
> CC: <stoves@crest.org>
> Message-ID: <B68C6537.493F%bywateri@caverock.net.nz>
> In-Reply-To: <001201c08082$d2cb0c40$24eb34d1@computer>
> Mime-version: 1.0
> Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
> on 1/18/01 1:40 AM, John Flottvik at jovick@island.net wrote:
>
> >The last part, the transportation really is not a factor since there is
ample
> >wood residue close to a number of greenhouses.
>
> John
>
> A company here in Christchurch makes large cyclonic sawdust burners for
> greenhouses. Are you interested to know more? What size of heater are
you
> looking for?
>
> Ian Bywater, Christchurch, New Zealand.
>
>
>
>

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Tue Feb 20 13:15:24 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Forwarded message from Bjorn Brandberg
In-Reply-To: <200101161002.FAA21396@crest.solarhost.com>
Message-ID: <054601c09b69$5329e5e0$847be13f@computer>

1. Bjorn

Yours was a great attempt to help the folks in Namibia - that I am
afraid may not have gotten to the full "stoves" lis - because I ran into
time problems. Could you give us a report on what help you were able to
provide?

I am assuming based on your sending us this message that it would be
helpful to both you and us to sign you up for "stoves". Please let me know
if this would be an imposition -and I will remove your name.

Can you describe more of your work in South Africa?

2. "P Wagner" <moselle@out.namib.com>; "Erik Arrhenius"
<Arrhenius@ng.hik.se>; "Don Henry" <henrymachg@aol.com>

I assume from your being recipients of Bjorn''s message below that you
also are interested in rural cook stoves - and that our list would also
benefit from your being members. Let me know. Please give us also some
more background on the problem being faced and your own works.

3. Stovers: Any ideas that will be appropriate for Namibia? My response
is that we now have a pretty good bibliography in our archives. Ron

From: <owner-stoves@crest.org>
To: <stoves-approval@crest.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 3:02 AM
Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from [Bjorn
Brandberg <b.brandberg@mail.com>]

> From: Bjorn Brandberg <b.brandberg@mail.com>
> To: "P Wagner" <moselle@out.namib.com>, <Auke.Koopmans@fao.org>,
> "Ronal Larson" <larcon@csn.net>,
> "Erik Arrhenius" <Arrhenius@ng.hik.se>,
> "Kevin Chisholm" <kchishol@fox.nstn.ca>,
> "Alex English" <english@adan.kingston.net>,
> "Don Henry" <henrymachg@aol.com>, "Stovers" <stoves@crest.org>
>
> Hi
> Is there somebody who can help R. Wagner, E. Zamzow with their question?
> I regret that I am not the expert but I can imagine that the problem is
> small in Namibia given that your population density is low. Locating you
> kilns upwind of settlement areas further reduces the problem.
>
>
> Best regards
> Bjorn
>
> Bjorn Brandberg
> -------------------------------
> SBI Consulting
> P.O.Box 131 EVENI
> Mbabane
> Swaziland (Africa)
>
> Tel: +268-404-0067, 404-3243
> Fax: +268-404-0067
> E-mail: b.brandberg@mail.com
> -------------------------------
>
>
> 15/1/01 3:17 pm P Wagner wrote
>
> >R. Wagner, E. Zamzow
> >Namibia
> >e-mail: Moselle@out.namib.com
> >
> >
> >re.: our e-mail, dated 01.01.01
> >
> >Dear Sir,
> >with our e-mail, dated 01.01.01, we've asked you some questions about the
> >gases, trapped gases, air pollution and other, produced during the
> >charcoal manufacturing in simple unfiltered kilns.
> >Sorry that we ask you again, but we need this information very urgent.
> >If you can't help us, please give us to other adresses from experts, if
> >possible.
> >Thank you very much.
> >Yours faithfully,
> >R. Wagner, E. Zamzow
> >
>

 

 

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Feb 20 18:02:23 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Just Possible viruses from TBR
Message-ID: <cd.2976b76.27c4515a@cs.com>

Mea Culpa? - probably not.

A year ago I removed my Norton virus checker because it took too much time on
bootup and I wasn't finding any viruses.  But with all this talk, I decided
to reactivate it, even though my computer was operating OK.  

I was astounded to have Norton tell me I had 17 viruses listed below.  If you
know what I'm talking about (and I don't) you can read the list or do
whatever is necessary.  However, as I say it didn't seem to affect the
operation of my computer, so don't panic.  

Puzzled........                           TOM REED

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\RECYCLED\DC3\midgets.scr
is infected with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\RECYCLED\DC3\AVP_Updates.EXE
is infected with the W95.MTX.dr virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\RECYCLED\DC3\dwarf4you.exe
is infected with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\RECYCLED\DC20\file011.bin
is infected with the WScript.KakWorm.dr virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe 2001\download\stovesDi.zip|file011.bin
is infected with the WScript.KakWorm.dr virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe 2001\download\AVP_Updates.EXE
is infected with the W95.MTX.dr virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe 2001\download\dwarf4you.exe
is infected with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe 2001\download\midgets.scr
is infected with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe 2001\AVP_Updates.EXE
is infected with the W95.MTX.dr virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe 2001\dwarf4you.exe
is infected with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe 2001\midgets.scr
is infected with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\RECYCLED\DD6\download\midgets.scr
is infected with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\RECYCLED\DD6\download\AVP_Updates.EXE
is infected with the W95.MTX.dr virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\RECYCLED\DD6\download\dwarf4you.exe
is infected with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\CompuServe 2000a\download\midgets.scr
is infected with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\CompuServe 2000a\download\AVP_Updates.EXE
is infected with the W95.MTX.dr virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\CompuServe 2000a\download\dwarf4you.exe
is infected with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was quarantined.

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
Virus scanning completed.
Items scanned:  C:-D:

Date: 2/15/01, Time: 11:48:36, Tom Reed on BEFNET
Virus scanning interrupted while scanning:  C:-D:

Date: 2/16/01, Time: 5:45:52, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WSOCK32.DLL
was infected with the W95.Hybris.gen virus.
The file was repaired.

Date: 2/16/01, Time: 20:13:16, Tom Reed on BEFNET
Virus scanning completed.
Items scanned:  C:-D:

 

From dstill at epud.org Tue Feb 20 21:22:50 2001
From: dstill at epud.org (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Why Homemade refractory ceramic insulation
Message-ID: <002201c09a45$499fbc40$8cacefd8@default>

 

Dear Tom,

It's great to know about riser sleeves. It may be that buying
riser sleeves is the best way to go in some situations when trying to make good
stoves available to people. In other situations, however, they may not be
available or may end up being too expensive. Our hope is that learning how to
make homemade refractory insulative materials would find applications in those
circumstaces.

In Honduras there is a co-op that makes great refractory stove
parts. They are pretty cheap at the factory. But transporting anything by pick
up truck greatly increases the cost. You pay for the truck, the driver, the gas,
the breakage and the ability to only transport a limited number of items. That's
why stuff tends to cost so much in a lot of countries with undeveloped systems
of transportation. A hundred miles away really means something in a lot of
countries.

That's part of the reason why making the stuff is much more
attractive in poorer countries. Another important reason is that stuff breaks.
If you are dependent on finding another riser tube to make dinner then a lot of
dinners get made on smoky three stone fires instead of on cleaner stoves. The
town that knows how to make stoves from all vernacular sources is much more self
sufficient and independent. They are in charge of the technology, instead of
being charged for it.

I agree with the Appropriate Technology movement that best
case development tends to follow these guidelines.

One of the things that our teams working in Central America
stress upon returning is that many towns may want different types of stoves.
Different towns may cook different things, in various ways, etc. Sharing the
knowledge of how to design stoves seems so much superior to teaching a stove
design. Helping involved locals to design, test and make their own stove creates
a great feeling that can empower a project, make it happen. An indigenous stove,
designed by locals, using local materials, built and repaired by locals is our
goal because this approach to technology transfer still seems to have the
greatest success.

Depending on the situation, we come closer or farther to
actualizing our goals.

Best,

Dean Still
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">

From ronallarson at qwest.net Wed Feb 21 23:31:02 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Forwarding S.Narayanaswamy. on high efficiency cook pots
Message-ID: <014e01c09c82$316d44a0$da7de13f@computer>

Stovers:
This is another in the series of too-much-delayed messages caussed by my
tardiness. I believe this is a specific response to a messsage I posted
shortly after returning from the Pune meeting. To remind all, Alex English
and I saw the "Bachat" unit described below, we liked it and I sent in a
report asking for more details if possible. This message leads us to lots
of excellent details.

I urge all who are able to look at the site "Bachatcooker", which
describes the theory of this cook pot, which involves four elements we have
hinted about on this list -
1. a small flame
2. insulation
3. early switch-of of flame
4. vertically stacked pots.

The website postulates a 30% improvement from each of the four
"elements" and therefore a total impact of 75% (use 25% as much). I think
list members will find it instructive to see the good science that has gone
into this new product. I learned a lot more about what we had seen briefly
in Pune (with no demonstration).

S. Narayanaswamy: Thank you again. I am signing you up for "stoves" as
I think we can mutually benefit from further discussions. Perhaps you can
answer some of the following questions:

1. What is your own personal role in the development of this product? Has
there been experimental verification of the fuel savings?

2. If not you, can you put us in contact with some of those at the
University in Mumbai and elsewhere who were active in the development.
(Names and e-mail addresses). Your web site gave glowing referencs to the
developers (from Georgia Tech where I used to teach, so I am inclined to
believe the plaudits).

3. I was most interested in your expressed need for a wood-burning stove
with the characteristic of a low-power, controllable (adjustable),
continuous constant output flame for about an hour. Some of us have been
working for several years on the development of such a stove - which has
other favorable (low emission, and charcoal-making) characteristics. I am
not aware of any yet that have your desired characteristic of going out
automatically - but ours does give plenty of warning (lots of smoke) that
all the fuel has been pyrolyzed. Please let us know where you and the group
at Bangalore have arrived in the search. I would also like to invite the
Bangalore group to be involved as well.

4. What is the prices for the various sizes of pot that are now available?
What would you say has been the success of sales so far? What problems
remain?

5. I originally said I hoped to order a complete package. What would be
the difficulty and cost in shipping a unit?

6. Although this list does not normally discuss solar cooking, some of us
also have that interest. Please also tell us what your present status is on
developing a suitable solar version of this cookpot. Aything you can say
about any comparative studies of solar vs biomass stoves would certainly be
helpful.

7. Again, thanks for the contact and the many new leads we have.

Ron (volunteer list coordinator)

----- Original Message -----
> Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:05:38 +0900
> To: stoves@crest.org
> From: "S.Narayanaswamy." <snswamy@md2.vsnl.net.in> (by way of Keith
> Addison)
> Subject: The Bachat Cooker
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Fwd from the solarcooking list (solarcooking-l@igc.topica.com)
>
> Let me introduce to the members of this mailing list the Bachat
> Cooker. Bachat'means savings' in some Indian languages. This is
> basically a low fuel - extremely low fuel indeed; the claim is 75 %
> less of fuel - consuming steam cooker and NOT a solar cooker. Its
> relevance to our mailing list is only that it is an offshoot of
> attempts to make an acceptable solar cooking system which is said to
> have 'failed' in Mumbai, India -erstwhile Bombay - years ago. Because
> it is indirect cooking - through steam - and has features of
> retained cooking' it is somewhat time consuming. But it is made of
> durable materials and is a very low cost device, and a compact one at
> that.
>
> My first love is still, without question, the solar box cooker and I
> would resort to the Bachat' only when I am compelled by the weather.
> But the Bachat Cooker has the virtue it can be used in high rise
> buildings where sun is difficult to access and retains the privacy of
> cooking in the kitchen. It calls for very low heat /controlled heat
> input.
>
> For details please visit
<http://www.bachatcooker.com/>www.bachatcooker.com.
>
> As an aside, one can discern from this site the contributions made by
> Ford Foundation in India at making a viable solar cooking device;
> very little of this thoughtful understanding of the needs of the poor
> is to be seen today in the multilateral aid agencies like the World
> Bank For them solar energy means nothing more than photovoltaics.
>
> Narayanaswamy
>
>

 

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Wed Feb 21 23:31:05 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Forwarding Claus Hindsgaul on insulation
In-Reply-To: <200101241440.JAA03460@crest.solarhost.com>
Message-ID: <014f01c09c82$336c7000$da7de13f@computer>

stovers:
The following might provide some help to those currently discussing
insulation possibilities..

Potters such as my wife and Dick Boyt regularly see this material in
pottery kilns. A recent pottery catalog shows availability in densities of
6 or 8 pounds per cu ft, thicknesses of 1 or 2 inches, and widths of 1, 2
and 4 feet (almost any length I suppose) - with a price of $1.50 to $7.00
per sq ft depending on thickness, density and amount ordered. Those needing
metric units will probably find the same material available in their own
locales.

They warn about using masks for handling (as with asbestos), although
some have said its toxicity is not proven.

The Bachat stove has taken a different approach - adding a second layer
of metal - as we have also talked about on this list.

Ron

> To: Reedtb2@cs.com, claush@mek.dtu.dk, gasification@crest.org
> Subject: Re: Use of Kaowool fibres
> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:44:21 +0100
> X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2]
> Cc: nargaw@gocpc.com, barmstrong@gocpc.com, cbarnett@gocpc.com,
> dbarnett@gocpc.com, kbeard@gocpc.com, kbrowne@gocpc.com,
> jdiebold@gocpc.com, dduncan@gocpc.com, ggonzales@gocpc.com,
> Artsolar@aol.com, jgriffith@gocpc.com, jreardon@gocpc.com,
> treed@gocpc.com, jscahill@gocpc.com, eshea@gocpc.com,
rwalt@gocpc.com,
> stoves@crest.org
> Den Onsdag 24. Januar 2001 15:31 skrev Reedtb2@cs.com:
> > Dear Claus:
> >
> > I believe Kaowool is one trade name for a host of fibrous insulation
> > made
> > from spun mullite (an alumino-silicate mineral). It melts above 1500 C
> > and
> > is both an excellent refractory and has very low thermal conductivity.
>
> Yes, Kaowool is indeed a trade name (from LINETA A/S). My papers says
"100%
> cheramic fibers". BP >1650C
>
> --
> Research Assistant Claus Hindsgaul
> Danish Technical University (DTU), Dept. of Mechanical Engineering.
> Phone: (+45) 4525 4174, Fax: (+45) 4593 5761
> claush@mek.dtu.dk
>

 

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Wed Feb 21 23:31:24 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Forwarding Rogerio Miranda and S.K Sharma on a cookstove training program
Message-ID: <014c01c09c82$2fcb2d60$da7de13f@computer>

 

Stovers: Another delayed announcement of a promising sounding training
program.

Rogerio: Thanks and sorry for the delay.

S.K. Pleae let me know if you would also like to be a "stoves" list member.

Ron

----- Original Message ----- > Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:55:07 -0600
> To: hedon@egroups.com, stoves@crest.org
> From: Rogerio Miranda <rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni>
> Subject: International Training Programme on Cookstoves

> >Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:07:13 -0800 (PST)
> >From: "S. K. Sharma" <sks_erc@yahoo.com>
> >Subject: International Training Programme on Cookstoves
> >To: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
> >
> >Dear Rogerio,
> >You will be pleased to know that our Centre is
> >organising an International Training Programme on
> >Improved Cookstoves from March 1-12,2001. I request
> >you to kindly participate and bring this to notice of
> >the other workers in this area.I an enclosing a
> >brochure of the programme for your information.
> >with kind regards and best wishes for a happy New
> >Year.
> >S.K.Sharma
> >Director
> >Energy Research Centre
> >Panjab University
> >Chandigarh, India
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Rogério Carneiro de Miranda
> Director, Proyecto de modernización
> del uso de la leña y producción forestal
> PROLEÑA/PL-480/USAID
> Apartado Postal C-321
> Managua, Nicaragua
> TELEFAX (505) 278 3659
> EMAIL: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Feb 22 08:06:18 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Why Homemade refractory ceramic insulation
Message-ID: <f6.789ea4a.27c66897@cs.com>

Riser sleeves may or may not be the best for the final product.  However,
they are VERY convenient for those of us doing experimentation.  I agree that
a refractory that is simultaneously

High temperature

Sturdy and resistant to thermal shock

Low thermal conductivity (this excludes solid ceramics)

Cheap

Easy to make on site

Would be a great addition to all of our stove and gasification work.  I hope
we'll find it right here at our Stove or Gasification site.

Onward,                      TOM REED

In a message dated 2/20/01 7:23:36 PM Mountain Standard Time, dstill@epud.org
writes:

 

Dear Tom,

It's great to know about riser sleeves. It may be that buying riser sleeves
is the best way to go in some situations when trying to make good stoves
available to people. In other situations, however, they may not be
available or may end up being too expensive. Our hope is that learning how
to make homemade refractory insulative materials would find applications in
those circumstaces.

 

 

From mheat at mha-net.org Thu Feb 22 15:41:53 2001
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Why Homemade refractory ceramic insulation
In-Reply-To: <f6.789ea4a.27c66897@cs.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010222153618.00c69760@mha-net.org>

At 08:05 AM 2001-02-22 -0500, Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:
>(snip) I agree that
>a refractory that is simultaneously
>
>High temperature
>
>Sturdy and resistant to thermal shock
>
>Low thermal conductivity (this excludes solid ceramics)
>
>Cheap
>
>Easy to make on site
>
>Would be a great addition to all of our stove and gasification work. I hope
>we'll find it right here at our Stove or Gasification site.

An interesting material that we ran into recently in the Guatemalan
highlands was pumice rock. Although we didn't have a chance to experiment
very much, it looked promising. Seems to be a cheap, local material if you
have a lot of volcanos nearby.

Best ........ Norbert Senf
----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf---------- mheat@mha-net.org-nospam
Masonry Stove Builders (remove -nospam)
RR 5, Shawville------- www.heatkit.com
Quebec J0X 2Y0-------- fax:-----819.647.6082
---------------------- voice:---819.647.5092


 

 

From rdboyt at yahoo.com Thu Feb 22 18:20:01 2001
From: rdboyt at yahoo.com (Richard Boyt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:47 2004
Subject: Ceramic Fiber Insulations
Message-ID: <20010222232031.24719.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com>

Stovers all,

As Dr. Larson recently pointed out, potters,
particularly kiln builders sometimes have use for high
temp. ceramic fiber insulations like kaowool. However,
as Dr. Reed has pointed out, there may be health
hazards involved in their use. He wrote that he
experenced a dry cough for several days after using
them. Recently Claus Hindsgaul wrote stoves of the
carcinogenic dangers of kaowool. I have occasionally
used this material during the past 20 years and
though I cannot personally trace any negative health
to its use, I urge caution. In fact this note was
motivated by a letter I have just received from a
reader who told me that kaowool works very well in his
gasifier and that he is fortunate to have a free
source of it.

Some years ago I purchased a quantity of used
kaowool. I was told that it had been used as
protective padding in the high firing of the ceramic
tile for the exterior of the space shuttle. I noticed
that it was more compacted, less fluffy, and far more
brittle than fresh unfired kaowool, and that the
fibers broke off into a fine light dust as I handled
them. As an old asthmatic, I already have enough
trouble getting my breath, so I cautiously worked with
the material outside and tried to seal any exposed
surfaces with furnace cement, clay, or waterglass.
However, I am becoming increasingly aware of the
inevitable "pumping" that occurs in any air-containing
cavity that is repeatedly heated and cooled, -- as
with a stove.

Suggestions--- If you decide to use fibrous or
dusty mineral materials like asbestos, rock wool,
vermiculite, fiberglass, kaowool, micro-beads,
powdered silica, or even clay, wear a mask, do it
outside, cross wind if possible, and perhaps dampen
the material to cut dusting.

So, how to get rid of 20 pounds of used kaowool.
Apparently some places give it away. Bury it? Where?
Landfill? Suggestions anyone?

R. D. (Dick) Boyt 20479 Panda. Neosho MO 64850
rdboyt@yahoo.com

 

 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Thu Feb 22 18:35:41 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Why Homemade refractory ceramic insulation
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010222153618.00c69760@mha-net.org>
Message-ID: <011b01c09d28$9af56500$f6f3b4d1@computer>

I need to get back into this insulation argument (and I have a long way to
go in catching up still), but this nice addition from Norbert reminds me of
three similar comments I need to make on "volcanic" material:

1. When I visited Rogerio Miranda in Managua, I was amazed at how much use
was being made already of big volcanic slabs - mostly being used for
building and garden walls. I was recommending its use for stoves and maybe
Rogerio has tried some by now. Rogerio - could you give us the local prices
for the usual sizes? I thought then that the price was a bargain - cheaper
than bricks. Norbert - did you see the volcanic material aactually being
sued for stoves?

2. When leaving the Karves in Pune last December, we ran down a rumor of a
recently discovered "ancient" floating (!!) ordinary construction brick. At
a famed local Anthropology school,
we actually saw the brick and actually saw it float. It looked a lot like
slag from an iron foundry. It was very tough - not brittle and it must have
been a good insulator - being so light weight. I have more data on the
technical details, which I have attempted so far unsuccessfully to
reproduce. Dr. Karve has some details on the anthropologist in Pune who had
done some chemical analysis of this remarkable brick. I have a friend very
knowledgeable in volcanos and he reports no one has ever successfully
manufactured an artificial "lava", although there have been some small
attempts. I have one more lead to track down and will try to report more.
The difference from the work of Dick Boyt is that the internal bubbles seem
to have been caused by carbon dioxide being produced from a a chemical
reaction - not from biomass material. Given time, I am sure we can
reproduce this brick.

3. When I came back from Osh, Kyrgyzstan last year, I believe I reported on
a different "man-made" volvanic material which was being used there for roof
and
ceiling insulation. It came from heating ordinary schist in a rotary kiln -
producing small "balls" of a very lightweight high-temperature (and
hopefully
low-cost) volcanic-like material. What is new is that I find it is also
being produced in the Denver area - but I haven't actually picked any up yet
for testing. When I was in Osh, I tried making some small bricks with this
material - along the lines recently described by Dick Boyt (who some may not
know is an excellent potter and a retired professor of same). I believe
there is considerable hope for using this "fluffed" schist inside a ceramic
body recipe instead of using sawdust, etc. (My first tests with sawdust
were awful).

Any comments on best ways to proceed?

Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Norbert Senf <mheat@mha-net.org>
To: <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Why Homemade refractory ceramic insulation

> At 08:05 AM 2001-02-22 -0500, Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:
> >(snip) I agree that

<snip>

>
> An interesting material that we ran into recently in the Guatemalan
> highlands was pumice rock. Although we didn't have a chance to experiment
> very much, it looked promising. Seems to be a cheap, local material if you
> have a lot of volcanos nearby.
>
> Best ........ Norbert Senf
> ----------------------------------------
> Norbert Senf---------- mheat@mha-net.org-nospam
> Masonry Stove Builders (remove -nospam)
> RR 5, Shawville------- www.heatkit.com
> Quebec J0X 2Y0-------- fax:-----819.647.6082
> ---------------------- voice:---819.647.5092
>

 

 

From kchishol at fox.nstn.ca Thu Feb 22 18:41:43 2001
From: kchishol at fox.nstn.ca (Kevin Chisholm)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Ceramic Fiber Insulations
In-Reply-To: <20010222232031.24719.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBLHHHOLFOEGCILKHEKEMDCGAA.kchishol@fox.nstn.ca>

Dear Dick

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Boyt [mailto:rdboyt@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:21 PM
> To: stoves@crest.org
> Subject: Ceramic Fiber Insulations
>
>
...del...

> So, how to get rid of 20 pounds of used kaowool.
> Apparently some places give it away. Bury it? Where?
> Landfill? Suggestions anyone?
>
> R. D. (Dick) Boyt 20479 Panda. Neosho MO 64850
> rdboyt@yahoo.com

This does not help you with your "final solution", but it may be a "help
along the way..." when you have to handle the material:

If you can spray the Kaowool with a light oil, dusting is markedly reduced.

Kindest regards,

Kevin Chisholm

 

From mheat at mha-net.org Thu Feb 22 19:38:25 2001
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Why Homemade refractory ceramic insulation
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010222153618.00c69760@mha-net.org>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010222192706.00cbaef0@mha-net.org>

At 03:32 PM 2001-02-22 -0700, Ron Larson wrote:
>(snip) Norbert - did you see the volcanic material aactually being
>sued for stoves?

Hi Ron and Stovers:

We didn't see it used as a refractory. It is used as an aggregate by all of
the small concrete block operations that lined the road. The concrete
blocks were very light weight.

We did see some blocks of dimensioned stone being used in the restoration
of the large church in the main square of Xela (Quetzaltenango). Our
contact there told us he had a friend who ran a stone quarrying operation
in the surrounding mountains, but so far we haven't been able to check it
out for prices, etc. Pat Manley is still down there, so perhaps he will
have a chance. We did collect some unworked rocks to take home and test.

We had the idea to take a couple of blocks, carve them out, and put them
together to form a rocket elbow. There are concrete casting operations
everywhere, so it shouldn't be hard to get the rest of the stove bodies
cast from pumice/portland if one supplied the molds. Don't know how a
rocket firebox would get accepted on a plancha - one would have to try a
few to see.

Best ....... Norbert
----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf---------- mheat@mha-net.org-nospam
Masonry Stove Builders (remove -nospam)
RR 5, Shawville------- www.heatkit.com
Quebec J0X 2Y0-------- fax:-----819.647.6082
---------------------- voice:---819.647.5092


 

 

From dstill at epud.org Thu Feb 22 22:30:26 2001
From: dstill at epud.org (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Why Homemade refractory ceramic insulation/pumice
Message-ID: <001101c09bbc$e0de5d00$6cacefd8@default>

Dear Norbert and All,

Pumice rock has come in very handy for building stoves. Larry has used
pumice to line the combustion chamber and internal chimney of the Rocket
stove. We have also used pumice as infill and insulation between the Rocket
elbow and the stove body. Pumice can be mixed with cement to make light
weight block. Pumice can protect materials from degrading.

Pumice is not a really great insulation like wood ash. It is heavier and
provides less resistance per inch to the passage of heat. But if you're
lucky enough to find big chunks of it they can be made into long lasting
stove parts. Light weight pumice can be cut with saws, shaped with wood
files, etc.

The best pumice floats on water and in Baja California Sur, Larry and I
would find it washed up under the brush on the beach! It would be
interesting to try it in place of the saw dust in our current experiments.

I'll post a picture of a Rocket elbow bored out of a pumice rock on the home
page ASAP. Makes for a great appropriate technology: no cost, vernacular.

Along the same lines, did you know that Larry once built a pulse jet engine
from Lorena mix rammed into a 55 gallon drum? It actually ran for a couple
of seconds! A powerful jet engine built entirely from sand and clay...

All the best,

Dean Still

 

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Fri Feb 23 00:14:21 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Forwarding S.Narayanaswamy. on high efficiency cook pots
In-Reply-To: <003e01c09d42$c680b520$3937c5cb@sbplaptop>
Message-ID: <003b01c09d57$f953ace0$a379e13f@computer>

Shirish, Narayanaswamy, et al

Thank you so much for the excellent responses in the following two
messages. I am sending this on to the full stoves list, as I think both
responses will be of wide interest.

1. I thought I had read the "bachatcooker" site closely enough - but
seemed to have missed some of the costing information. I apologize and will
go back to look again and will almost certainly place an order.

2. Our list will be most interested in hearing more of the stove work being
performed by Professor Mukunda in Bangalore. I hope that he will send us a
message when he feels it appropriate to do so.

3. You have supplied many new names - I shall be pleased to sign all up for
our (free) list whenever given the go-ahead.
I believe that your "corporate philosophy" on dissemination is in line with
most of our members approaches and we can therefore perhaps be helpful in
your business goals. We are approximately 200 members from 40 countries -
mostly working on our own.

4. Re the Scheffler concentrator, I saw one for sale in Addis Abeba, but no
sales as of a year or so ago. However, I saw another being manufactured and
successively sold in Khartoum (half a dozen sales as of about 3 years ago)
for hospital cooking where the competition was wood or charcoal. I don't
know where you are in your work on the Scheffler, but I suggest that it may
be useful to try to reach this Khartoum contact. Let me know. (To those
who may not have heard, Scheffler was the Swiss developer of this clever
approach to concentration - a deformable reflector that allows weekly
adjustment of the shape and -always - a constant one dimensional, 15 degrees
per hour of tracking using a polar axis of rotation with the focal point
(cook pot) in a fixed position on the ground.. The ability to use a simple
non-electric (falling weight) clock movement for tracking is quite unique -
and often said to be impossible.)

5. Re Naraynaswamy's last question on "why Pune" - this was the result in
late November by two Dr. Karve's in Pune to have a "first" large
international stove meeting. About 100 were present, with about 20 coming
from outside India. I think all of the 20 were "stoves" list members. We
missed a few US citizens because the date coincided with our "Thanksgiving"
national holiday, but all present thought the meeting was well done and well
worth the multi-time-zone difficulty of getting to Pune. The meeting
proceedings will be available soon. We heard about your excellent Bachat
from a short time that the participants had to look at a number of stoves
and cooking products over the space of a few hours. The brief presentation
was put on by someone who had learned of the conference and who came up for
the day from Mumbai. We were very impressed by the stove work in Pune of
Dr. A.D. Karve (adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in) and his daughter Dr. Priyadarshini
Karve - who together organized the conference. I hope you will all try to
make contact with each other - as I percieve your work to be quite
complementary.

Thanks again for the quick responses - and congratulations again for an
excellent technical achievement. The cook pot is well worth the $7-$8 price
you are quoting. I wish we in the US had access to such reasonable prices.

Ron (Volunteer "stoves" coordinator)

----- Original Message -----
From: Shirish B. Patel <shirish@spacpl.com>
To: Ron Larson <ronallarson@qwest.net>
Cc: S Narayanaswamy <snswamy@md2.vsnl.net.in>; J B Joshi
<jbj@udct.ernet.in>; Aniruddha B Pandit <abp@udct.ernet.in>; kishore
Mariwala <kishorem@bom3.vsnl.net.in>; R S Shah <jaijui@bom8.vsnl.net.in>; G
K Bhide <agb@vsnl.com>; Rekha Singhal <rekha@foodbio.udct.ernet.in>; H S
Mukunda <mukunda@cgpl.iisc.ernet.in>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:45 PM
Subject: Fw: Forwarding S.Narayanaswamy. on high efficiency cook pots

> 23 Feb '01
>
> Dear Mr Larson,
>
> Some information supplementary to what you already have from Mr
> Narayanaswamy:
>
> 1. The person looking after development of a wood-burning stove appropriat
e
> to the Bachat Cooker is Prof H S Mukunda of the Combustion, Gasification
and
> Propulsion Laboratory (CGPL) of the Indian Institute of Science,
Bangalore.
> His email address is mukunda@cgpl.iisc.ernet.in. Recently we carried out a
> successful trial with a tentative design of a wood-burning stove developed
> by Prof Mukunda's team. He is currently refining it.
>
> 2. If you visit our website at www.bachatcooker.com, on the Orders page
you
> will find the costs for delivery of a cooker to various parts of the
world.
> The cookers themselves cost about $7.50 for the 4.5 litre version and
$8.50
> for the 6 litre version. But packing and freight add very much larger
sums.
> The cost of alternative freight modes is mentioned on our website.
>
> 3. Our cooker started life as a solar cooker project. At some point, and
> this is explained in the History section on our website, we decided to
focus
> exclusively on the pot. We finished with a 75% fuel saving on a normal
> flame, in principle on any source, but we have verified the numbers
> experimentally only on cooking gas. My own view is that this kills the
solar
> cooker project: who is interested in saving the remaining 25%, for which
you
> need a significant additional investment in the reflector, and it works
only
> during sunlit hours? However, we have decided to work also on a solar
> version, particularly for larger, canteen sized models, where the
> concentrating reflector system with additional flat reflectors would focus
a
> heat beam somehow on the underside of the cooker.
>
> 4. Preliminary tests indicate that we can scale the design up to 20 litres
> without difficulty, and we will shortly be offering a 20-litre model. The
> 50-litre model presents problems of uneven cooking. Food at the edge of
each
> cooking vessel cooks differently from food near the centre. We may need to
> modify the shape of the cooking vessels to something annular, with a
central
> chimney, to get evenness of cooking.
>
> 5. We do not want to be a central supplier of these cookers. We think they
> are best made and distributed locally, around the area where they are to
be
> used. As explained on our website, we expect a royalty from the developed
> world, but not from developing countries, from which we hope for a
voluntary
> contribution to help fund our further research. We are really looking for
> strategic partners, anywhere in the world, who will take up manufacture,
> distribution and marketing. If you can help us in any way in that
direction
> we would be most grateful.
>
> 6. If there are any further questions I can answer, please let me know.
>
> With regards,
>
> Shirish Patel
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: S.Narayanaswamy. <snswamy@md2.vsnl.net.in>
> To: Ron Larson <ronallarson@qwest.net>
> Cc: <sbpatel@spacpl.com>; Shirish B. Patel <shirish@spacpl.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 6:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Forwarding S.Narayanaswamy. on high efficiency cook pots
>
>
> > I will answer your queries first.
> > 1. I have no role in its development. Shirish Patel, the moving
> > spirit behind this project, happened to see some of my postings on the
SCI
> > mailing list and felt I could be a sounding board - that's how I came
into
> > the picture. Shirish Patel's e mailID:
> > sbpatel@spacpl.com,shirish@spacpl.com.
> > 2. The University of Bombay persons involved are the following:
> Dr.J.B.Joshi
> > <jbj@udct.ernet.in> and Dr. Aniruddha B. Pandit <abp@udct.ernet.in>.
> > 3. I am not aware of the work of the Bangalore group.
> > 4. The prices are - Rs. 350 for the 4.5 litre capacity and Rs.395 for
> the
> > slightly bigger capacity
> > i.e. $8 and $9 respectively.
> > 5. I do not think they are developing a solar version of the cooking
> system.
> > There can be a suggestion that the Bachat Cooker could be placed at the
> > focus of a SK14 or a Scheffler cooker but controlling the heat input, on
> > which the success of the Bachat Cooker depends, would be problematical
> apart
> > from it becoming a messy affair.
> > I will request Shirirsh Patel to answer the unanswered part of your
> queries
> > and elaborate where necessary (Shirish, I hope you will do it).
> > I am not involved in any solar vs. biomass studies. But if I come across
> any
> > interesting news in this regard I shall keep you informed.
> > Incidentally what was it that took you to Pune? Do you visit India
> > frequently? Regards,
> > Narayanaswamy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ron Larson <ronallarson@qwest.net>
> > To: <stoves@crest.org>
> > Cc: "S.Narayanaswamy." <snswamy@md2.vsnl.net.in>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:36 AM
> > Subject: Forwarding S.Narayanaswamy. on high efficiency cook pots
> >
> >
> > > Stovers:
> > > This is another in the series of too-much-delayed messages caussed
> by
> > my
> > > tardiness. I believe this is a specific response to a messsage I
posted
> > > shortly after returning from the Pune meeting. To remind all, Alex
> > English
> > > and I saw the "Bachat" unit described below, we liked it and I sent in
a
> > > report asking for more details if possible. This message leads us to
> lots
> > > of excellent details.
> > >
> > > I urge all who are able to look at the site "Bachatcooker", which
> > > describes the theory of this cook pot, which involves four elements we
> > have
> > > hinted about on this list -
> > > 1. a small flame
> > > 2. insulation
> > > 3. early switch-of of flame
> > > 4. vertically stacked pots.
> > >
> > > The website postulates a 30% improvement from each of the four
> > > "elements" and therefore a total impact of 75% (use 25% as much). I
> think
> > > list members will find it instructive to see the good science that has
> > gone
> > > into this new product. I learned a lot more about what we had seen
> > briefly
> > > in Pune (with no demonstration).
> > >
> > >
> > > S. Narayanaswamy: Thank you again. I am signing you up for
"stoves"
> > as
> > > I think we can mutually benefit from further discussions. Perhaps
you
> > can
> > > answer some of the following questions:
> > >
> > > 1. What is your own personal role in the development of this product?
> > Has
> > > there been experimental verification of the fuel savings?
> > >
> > > 2. If not you, can you put us in contact with some of those at the
> > > University in Mumbai and elsewhere who were active in the development.
> > > (Names and e-mail addresses). Your web site gave glowing referencs to
> the
> > > developers (from Georgia Tech where I used to teach, so I am inclined
to
> > > believe the plaudits).
> > >
> > > 3. I was most interested in your expressed need for a wood-burning
> stove
> > > with the characteristic of a low-power, controllable (adjustable),
> > > continuous constant output flame for about an hour. Some of us have
> been
> > > working for several years on the development of such a stove - which
has
> > > other favorable (low emission, and charcoal-making) characteristics.
I
> am
> > > not aware of any yet that have your desired characteristic of going
out
> > > automatically - but ours does give plenty of warning (lots of smoke)
> that
> > > all the fuel has been pyrolyzed. Please let us know where you and the
> > group
> > > at Bangalore have arrived in the search. I would also like to invite
> the
> > > Bangalore group to be involved as well.
> > >
> > > 4. What is the prices for the various sizes of pot that are now
> > available?
> > > What would you say has been the success of sales so far? What
problems
> > > remain?
> > >
> > > 5. I originally said I hoped to order a complete package. What would
> be
> > > the difficulty and cost in shipping a unit?
> > >
> > > 6. Although this list does not normally discuss solar cooking, some of
> us
> > > also have that interest. Please also tell us what your present status
> is
> > on
> > > developing a suitable solar version of this cookpot. Aything you can
> say
> > > about any comparative studies of solar vs biomass stoves would
certainly
> > be
> > > helpful.
> > >
> > > 7. Again, thanks for the contact and the many new leads we have.
> > >
> > > Ron (volunteer list coordinator)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:05:38 +0900
> > > > To: stoves@crest.org
> > > > From: "S.Narayanaswamy." <snswamy@md2.vsnl.net.in> (by way of Keith
> > > > Addison)
> > > > Subject: The Bachat Cooker
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
> > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> > > >
> > > > Fwd from the solarcooking list (solarcooking-l@igc.topica.com)
> > > >
> > > > Let me introduce to the members of this mailing list the Bachat
> > > > Cooker. Bachat'means savings' in some Indian languages. This is
> > > > basically a low fuel - extremely low fuel indeed; the claim is 75 %
> > > > less of fuel - consuming steam cooker and NOT a solar cooker. Its
> > > > relevance to our mailing list is only that it is an offshoot of
> > > > attempts to make an acceptable solar cooking system which is said to
> > > > have 'failed' in Mumbai, India -erstwhile Bombay - years ago.
Because
> > > > it is indirect cooking - through steam - and has features of
> > > > retained cooking' it is somewhat time consuming. But it is made of
> > > > durable materials and is a very low cost device, and a compact one
at
> > > > that.
> > > >
> > > > My first love is still, without question, the solar box cooker and I
> > > > would resort to the Bachat' only when I am compelled by the weather.
> > > > But the Bachat Cooker has the virtue it can be used in high rise
> > > > buildings where sun is difficult to access and retains the privacy
of
> > > > cooking in the kitchen. It calls for very low heat /controlled heat
> > > > input.
> > > >
> > > > For details please visit
> > > <http://www.bachatcooker.com/>www.bachatcooker.com.
> > > >
> > > > As an aside, one can discern from this site the contributions made
by
> > > > Ford Foundation in India at making a viable solar cooking device;
> > > > very little of this thoughtful understanding of the needs of the
poor
> > > > is to be seen today in the multilateral aid agencies like the World
> > > > Bank For them solar energy means nothing more than photovoltaics.
> > > >
> > > > Narayanaswamy
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

 

From woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru Fri Feb 23 01:55:26 2001
From: woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru (Yudkevich Yury)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Ceramic Fiber Insulations
In-Reply-To: <20010222232031.24719.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002401c09d66$69185040$6f3fefc3@a1g0h5>

R. D. (Dick) Boyt 20479 Panda. Neosho MO 64850 write:

< So, how to get rid of 20 pounds of used kaowool.
Apparently some places give it away. Bury it? Where?
Landfill? Suggestions anyone?>

It can be placed in concrete, if the civil work make. It will not damage to
concrete and will improve properties if to allocate in regular intervals.

Yury (Russia)

 

From heat-win at cwcom.net Fri Feb 23 03:02:47 2001
From: heat-win at cwcom.net (Thomas J Stubbing)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Just Possible viruses from TBR
In-Reply-To: <cd.2976b76.27c4515a@cs.com>
Message-ID: <3A9618BE.CE9F6E4A@cwcom.net>

 

Dear All,
After my computer crashed in November I installed Norton Antivirus 2001.
Each time I turn on my computer it takes me only about 20 seconds to
activate e-mail protection before I get my messages.
Almost daily a message arrives with an infected attachment which I simply
delete.  Here is an example of what I then return to the sender showing
Norton's description of what was in the attachment.
Dear Mr Driver,
As you can see whatever you sent me was infected by a virus.  Please
re-transmit virus-free!
Regards,
Thomas J Stubbing
Feargal Driver wrote:
> This file: "Unknown0575.data" was infected with: "WScript.KakWorm.dr"
> virus. The file was deleted by Norton AntiVirus. Monday, February
19,
> 2001 19:50
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Thomas J Stubbing
Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:
Dear All:
Mea Culpa? - probably not.
A year ago I removed my Norton
virus checker because it took too much time on
bootup and I wasn't finding
any viruses.  But with all this talk, I decided
to reactivate it, even
though my computer was operating OK.
I was astounded to have Norton
tell me I had 17 viruses listed below.  If you
know what I'm talking about
(and I don't) you can read the list or do
whatever is necessary. 
However, as I say it didn't seem to affect the
operation of my computer,
so don't panic.
Puzzled........                          
TOM REED
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\RECYCLED\DC3\midgets.scr
is infected
with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\RECYCLED\DC3\AVP_Updates.EXE
is infected
with the W95.MTX.dr virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\RECYCLED\DC3\dwarf4you.exe
is infected
with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\RECYCLED\DC20\file011.bin
is infected
with the WScript.KakWorm.dr virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe
2001\download\stovesDi.zip|file011.bin
is infected
with the WScript.KakWorm.dr virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe
2001\download\AVP_Updates.EXE
is infected
with the W95.MTX.dr virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe
2001\download\dwarf4you.exe
is infected
with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe
2001\download\midgets.scr
is infected
with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe
2001\AVP_Updates.EXE
is infected
with the W95.MTX.dr virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe
2001\dwarf4you.exe
is infected
with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\CompuServe
2001\midgets.scr
is infected
with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\RECYCLED\DD6\download\midgets.scr
is infected
with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\RECYCLED\DD6\download\AVP_Updates.EXE
is infected
with the W95.MTX.dr virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\RECYCLED\DD6\download\dwarf4you.exe
is infected
with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\CompuServe
2000a\download\midgets.scr
is infected
with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\CompuServe
2000a\download\AVP_Updates.EXE
is infected
with the W95.MTX.dr virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
D:\CompuServe
2000a\download\dwarf4you.exe
is infected
with the W95.Hybris.worm virus.
This file was
quarantined.
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 10:12:24, Tom Reed on BEFNET
Virus scanning
completed.
Items scanned: 
C:-D:
Date: 2/15/01,
Time: 11:48:36, Tom Reed on BEFNET
Virus scanning
interrupted while scanning:  C:-D:
Date: 2/16/01,
Time: 5:45:52, Tom Reed on BEFNET
The file
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WSOCK32.DLL
was infected
with the W95.Hybris.gen virus.
The file was
repaired.
Date: 2/16/01,
Time: 20:13:16, Tom Reed on BEFNET
Virus scanning
completed.
Items scanned: 
C:-D:

 

 

From english at adan.kingston.net Sat Feb 24 07:01:31 2001
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: (Fwd) Question
Message-ID: <200102241156.GAA22910@adan.kingston.net>

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: "Christine M Vehar" <veharchm@flyernet.udayton.edu>

 

My name is Chris Vehar and I am a senior mechanical engineering
student at the University of Dayton, in Ohio. Currently, I am part
of a team at UD that is developing an international engineering
placement program for our undergraduate engineers. (It is called
the ETHOS Program -Engineers in Technical Humanitarian
Opportunites of Service) It is our belief (ethos) that there is a
deeper essence of engineering which is sometimes hard to realize
in the classroom or office setting. This program idea is already
backed by our university's president.
Our program's goal is to have a university sponsored placement
center within the school of engineering, which provides students
opportunities to take a semester off of school and do
service/technical work in developing countries. (I understand many
of the complexities of working in another culture, I was studying
appropriate technology in India last May.) Our group is determined
to make a bridge between young engineers and developing
communities.
Currently, our team is researching international service
opportunities that need young, student engineers, but we are also
researching engineering universites which have established or are
starting to establish a program similar to ours.
I recently talked with University of California Berkeley, and I
spoke with a grad student, Rob Bailis. Rob was in Africa last
summer and is a student of Dr. Kammen. Since our group is
focusing on finding appropriate technology and sustainable projects
in developing countries.
Here is my question. Does any of the appropriate technology
stove projects have a need for
undergraduate engineers? These engineers would be available for
a semesters time (4 months). For most of the time, the student
engineers would be interested in helping to design or implement
the stoves in international communities. UD has Mechanical,
Electical, Civil,
Computer, and Chemical engineering. The Ethos program would
provide all the funding necessary to send and keep a student in the
area that they are needed.
Obviously, there are many more specifics to discuss before we
know whether or not this would work with any of the stove projects,
but for now I would just like to hear feedback on the idea.
(Please forward this to anyone who would be interested.)

Thanks for your time,
Chris Vehar
(937) 627-8344
veharchm@flyernet.udayton.edu

 

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Sat Feb 24 22:12:45 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Yesterday's success with wind project
Message-ID: <009101c09ed9$526645e0$caafa0d8@computer>

 

Stovers:

My last fifteen months'
activities trying to get more wind in Colorado came to a final successful
conclusion yesterday.  Our state Public Utiity Commission (PUC) unanimously
forced our Public Service of Colorado (PSCo) to add 162 MW of wind over PSCo's
strong objections. 

I had sort of thought we might
win - but what was surprising was the unanimity of PUC opinion on every single
sub-issue (future costs of natural gas, ancillary service costs, capacity
credit, etc.).  The main saving grace for we who were pushing wind was
the increase in natural gas prices here in the US over the last 8 months.

 
I'm predicting a similar
experience soon for the rest of the world as oil prices do what our natural gas
prices have done - thus rapidly increasing interest in biomass-fueled
stoves.  Anyone know of a jurisdiction where we can "force" anything
sooner? 

Ron

From ronallarson at qwest.net Sun Feb 25 01:52:02 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Fw: failure notice
Message-ID: <010901c09ef7$b2336fc0$caafa0d8@computer>

 

Stovers - I goofed (creest?) and this looks like the easiest way to make a
correction. Sorry for the early confusion in the following.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: <MAILER-DAEMON@uswest.net>
To: <ronallarson@qwest.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 11:48 PM
Subject: failure notice

> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at dnvrpop5.dnvr.uswest.net.
> I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following
addresses.
> This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
>
> <stoves@creest.org>:
> Sorry, I couldn't find any host named creest.org. (#5.1.2)
>
> --- Below this line is a copy of the message.
>
> Return-Path: <ronallarson@qwest.net>
> Received: (qmail 59909 invoked by uid 0); 25 Feb 2001 06:48:27 -0000
> Received: from eedialup74.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO computer) (216.160.175.74)
> by dnvrpop5.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 06:48:27 -0000
> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 22:52:28 -0700
> Message-ID: <010001c09ef7$317907a0$caafa0d8@computer>
> From: "Ron Larson" <ronallarson@qwest.net>
> To: english@adan.kingston.net,
> " \"Christine M Vehar\"" <veharchm@flyernet.udayton.edu>
> Cc: stoves@creest.org, " Addisu Haile" <ahaile@rmi.net>,
> " Aman Gano" <agano@ntiersoftware.com>, " Yesho, Gabe"
<GYesho@dhha.org>,
> " taddese habte" <taddeseh@hotmail.com>,
> " Mark Westmoreland" <westmoreland@mail.utexas.edu>
> References: <200102241156.GAA22910@adan.kingston.net>
> Subject: Re: (Fwd) Question
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
>
> Christine:
>
> I am one of the group of "stovers" to whom Alex forwarded your letter.
> I have checked with the President of a small Denver-based NGO (for which I
> am VP) which would like to further explore your kind interest in finding a
> study assignment. The organization is called the Kaffa Development
> Association (KDA). Check Kaffa (also Kafa) and KDA out at our web site:
> www.ntiersoftware.com/kaffa.html
>
> Kafa is mostly a lovely mountainous rainforest. It is the original
> source of the world's coffee - and coffee trees still grow wild profusely.
> The roughly half-million people call themselves "Kafecho" and the language
> is Kafinoonoo (pronounced "kafinohnoh). Kafa is as undeveloped as almost
> any place on earth - mostly because of being a little too far from
anywhere
> with investment funds, but also Kafa is a little too mountainous and a
> little too rainy. However at one time it was a prosperous kingdom - and
was
> the last such to be subjugated 100+ years ago by the Ethiopian emperor.
> There has never been European subjugation here and still there are
probably
> less than a dozen whites (a few Dutch and a few from Denver who have
> recently established a clinic) amongst the half-million Kafecho. Annual
> income is surely less than $100 - but life is pretty good because the soil
> is so good. The major industry is a large tea plantation. Education is
> getting much better as the curriculum has recently been switched from
> Amharic to Kafinoonoo. There are several dozen college educated people in
> the Bonga capital city. Good health care is available in the city of
Jimma
> about a half day away.
>
> KDA is five years old, with several dozen members, but is mostly
active
> because of the strong leadership of five recent immigrants, highly
educated
> Kafecho (one who owns the Ntiersoftware wewb site). All have one or more
> Masters degrees, and all go back to Kaffa periodically and all have
> excellent relationships there still. There is no other outside general
> development group supporting Kafa. The world's only expert on the language
> (subject of his Master's degree) has recently moved to Denver.
>
> Kafa's development needs are in all areas. We think we have some
money
> to support implementation of water projects. I personally would like help
> on stove improvement. There are certainly opportunities to help in
> teaching. Maybe some possibilities with or near the tea plantation.
There
> is a limited amount of electricity available (maybe 12 hours daily) in the
> capital city of Bonga - but very few other places.
>
> Women are treated well and there are a few strong women in government
> office. There is a strong woman's development program. I would not worry
> about being well accepted as a woman student in Kafa.
>
> KDA supported an anthropology graduate student (Mark Westmoreland - at
> the University of Texas) and two associates going there last summer - to
> document disappearing traditions using video techniques. I am sure Mark
> will help provide assistance and (hopefully) confirmation of the above.
> Government support was excellent for Mark's project, as it has been for
the
> roughly 3 trips and 3 months that I have been there.
>
> Why don't you check out the web site and let me know what more I might
> add. I am a former Professor (Georgia Tech) who taught special lab
projects
> back in the late 60's and 70's in a now-defunct National program called
> SCORE - Student Competitions On Relevant Engineering (the best were
> low-emission cars and renewable energy) I wholeheartedly support the
> concepts behind your ETHOS program. You will learn a lot by going to
places
> like Kafa. We in KDA (and probably many in "stoves") will try hard to
make
> good matches. The main problem for us in such activity is finding
funding -
> and you seem to have solved that problem (incidentally the cost of living
is
> about a factor of 10 cheaper than in Dayton I would guess). You will have
> considerable difficulty spending as much as $10 a day for room and board.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you on whether Kafa sounds
interesting -
> and from other Dayton students or facul as well. You shouldn't all go
> there, but you will have more fun and success if more than one person goes
> to Kafa alone. It is my opinion that the Kafecho will much appreciate
your
> visit and interest and that both sides will benefit from your visit. I
> repeat that it is a lovely part of the world - it will not at all fit your
> probable image of Ethiopia.
>
> . Ron
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: *.English <english@adan.kingston.net>
> To: <stoves@crest.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 5:01 AM
> Subject: (Fwd) Question
>
>
> > ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
> > From: "Christine M Vehar" <veharchm@flyernet.udayton.edu>
> >
> >
> >
> > My name is Chris Vehar and I am a senior mechanical engineering
> > student at the University of Dayton, in Ohio. Currently, I am part
> > of a team at UD that is developing an international engineering
> > placement program for our undergraduate engineers. (It is called
> > the ETHOS Program -Engineers in Technical Humanitarian
> > Opportunites of Service) It is our belief (ethos) that there is a
> > deeper essence of engineering which is sometimes hard to realize
> > in the classroom or office setting. This program idea is already
> > backed by our university's president.
> > Our program's goal is to have a university sponsored placement
> > center within the school of engineering, which provides students
> > opportunities to take a semester off of school and do
> > service/technical work in developing countries. (I understand many
> > of the complexities of working in another culture, I was studying
> > appropriate technology in India last May.) Our group is determined
> > to make a bridge between young engineers and developing
> > communities.
> > Currently, our team is researching international service
> > opportunities that need young, student engineers, but we are also
> > researching engineering universites which have established or are
> > starting to establish a program similar to ours.
> > I recently talked with University of California Berkeley, and I
> > spoke with a grad student, Rob Bailis. Rob was in Africa last
> > summer and is a student of Dr. Kammen. Since our group is
> > focusing on finding appropriate technology and sustainable projects
> > in developing countries.
> > Here is my question. Does any of the appropriate technology
> > stove projects have a need for
> > undergraduate engineers? These engineers would be available for
> > a semesters time (4 months). For most of the time, the student
> > engineers would be interested in helping to design or implement
> > the stoves in international communities. UD has Mechanical,
> > Electical, Civil,
> > Computer, and Chemical engineering. The Ethos program would
> > provide all the funding necessary to send and keep a student in the
> > area that they are needed.
> > Obviously, there are many more specifics to discuss before we
> > know whether or not this would work with any of the stove projects,
> > but for now I would just like to hear feedback on the idea.
> > (Please forward this to anyone who would be interested.)
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your time,
> > Chris Vehar
> > (937) 627-8344
> > veharchm@flyernet.udayton.edu
> >
> >
> >
> > The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> > Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> > Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> > http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> > http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> > Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> > http://www.nrel.gov/bioam/
> > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> > http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> > For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> >
> >
>
>

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sun Feb 25 09:23:49 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Insulation Tests II, Light weight fill
Message-ID: <8f.757a0d2.27ca6f93@cs.com>

Dear Jerry and all...

You said "vermiculite contains asbestos fibers".  

As far as I know vermiculite is made from mica and has nothing to do with
asbestos.  Source?

Tom Reed

In a message dated 2/22/01 3:22:32 PM Mountain Standard Time,
midwestmonolithic@hotmail.com writes:

 

What about using vermiculite in place of sawdust.  It's a great insulator
and I have used it as such but in a different and less heat intensive
application.  BEWARE vermiculite constains asbestos fibers.  J

 

 

>From: Reedtb2@cs.com

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Sun Feb 25 09:24:31 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Fireballs! Increasing volume energy density and porosity
Message-ID: <39.11123dfe.27ca6f9b@cs.com>

SOME PROBLEMS:Assorted biomass is a great energy source - and an awful fuel,
with typically low mass and volume energy density.  We can fix the first with
torrefaction and the second with densification, but at a cost.  

Another important criterion is porosity.  There's lots of sawdust in the
world, but it is hard to burn because air won't easily pass through a bed of
sawdust.   Char dust is a great fuel, but again hard to burn.  If we are to
burn sawdust or other fine particles in stoves and gasifiers, we need to
increase porosity.

                                                ~~~~~~~~
SOME SOLUTIONS:  My friend John Tatom (working then at the Asian Institute of
Technology) told me about making charcoal "fireballs" and I still have a few
in my lab.  Start with a tumbling drum full of powdered sawdust and slowly
add a starch water solution.  As in making bread, you will pass through a
lumpy stage.  Stop!  You have fireballs which, dried in the sun will
withstand a drop from 3 feet.  There has been a lot of speculation about what
to do with charcoal fines here, and I believe Elsen Karsted is now marketing
something close to these fireballs.

Yesterday I got to wondering if you could make fireballs from sawdust or
coconut shell fines in a similar fashion.  Cows and children in India make
cowdung patties and dry them on the walls of houses.  Maybe other too-small
biomass forms can be treated similarly.  

I made a 250 ml of starch solution by adding 25 ml of corn starch to 260 ml
water and boiling.  I then added fine sawdust from my table saw until I got a
dry paste.  By hand I molded 3 cm diameter balls and put them on a cookie
sheet for drying in the oven, first at 80C, then at 110C.  (I could have sun
dried them here in Denver, but was in a hurry.)   Here are the densities I
measured:

Loose Dry Sawdust                           160 g/l
Packed Dry sawdust                          260 g/l
3 cm Sawdust fireballs                       260 g/l, but big pores

In making coconut shell fuel for our gasifier we get 10-20% fines, some dense
shell, but some coiry stuff.  I winnowed out the coir in a medium breeze and
mixed the rest with a cup of starch-water. It was hard to make balls, but I
made a patty 2 cm thick and oven dried it.  It broke up into discrete pieces
(like granola).  

Coconut shell fines                              160 g/l  (chaff winnowed out)
Coconut shell chunks                           195 g/l  but quite porous

I intend to run both of these fuels in a Turbo stove and believe they will
work fine.  

 

HINT:  The "1 lb coffee can" is a main tool in my lab (but seldom delivers a
lb of coffee - usually 10-13 oz).  It measured 9.8 cm diameter by 13.5 cm
high.  From this I calculate the volume as 1.017 LITERS ~

                                        1 lb coffee can  ~ 1 LITER.  

So, while I had such a handy measure, I weighed a bunch of other fuels.

Sawdust pellets ($3.00/20 kg bag)                 640 g/l
Peanut shell pellets ($35/ton)                           600 g/l

How many other too-fine fuels could be made into patties by the children?
I'll bet they'd like it better than dung!
(What's brown and sounds like a bell? *)

Onward,                                        TOM REED

 

* DUNG

 

From bburt at kingston.net Sun Feb 25 11:25:25 2001
From: bburt at kingston.net (Brian Burt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Insulation Tests II, Light weight fill
In-Reply-To: <8f.757a0d2.27ca6f93@cs.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJJFLALDHCNLFFAKBKEJCCEAA.bburt@kingston.net>

 

<A
href="http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/asbestos/verm.htm">http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/asbestos/verm.htm

Everything
you want to know about vermiculite and asbestos.
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> 
<FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Brian

<FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----From: Reedtb2@cs.com
[mailto:Reedtb2@cs.com]Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 9:24
AMTo: midwestmonolithic@hotmail.com; stoves@crest.orgCc:
gasification@crest.orgSubject: Re: Insulation Tests II, Light
weight fillDear
Jerry and all... You said "vermiculite contains asbestos fibers".
As far as I know vermiculite is made from mica and has nothing
to do with asbestos.  Source? Tom Reed In a message
dated 2/22/01 3:22:32 PM Mountain Standard Time,
midwestmonolithic@hotmail.com writes: <FONT lang=0
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">What about using vermiculite in place of sawdust.  It's
a great insulator and I have used it as such but in a different and less
heat intensive application.  BEWARE vermiculite constains asbestos
fibers.  J >From: Reedtb2@cs.com
<FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF">

From ovencrft at nbn.com Sun Feb 25 13:15:26 2001
From: ovencrft at nbn.com (Alan Scott)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: vermiculite
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010225102148.008b0900@mail.nbn.com>

I use vermiculite as an insulator both loose which is best, and with cement
8:1 mix which sets up like pumice in my highly efficient wood fired bread
baking ovens (five times as efficient as traditional masonry ovens). There
is legal leverage being applied at the moment on the as yet unresolved
possibility of asbestos like contamination of some Montana mined and
produced vermiculite. The science coming out is very distorted at this time
ranging from the industry saying that there is a 3% more chance of a long
time factory worker (20 years on the job) getting lung cancer from Montana
vermiculite to the other extreem. Personally I use the greatest precaution
with any of these modern insulation materials, perlite, foamglass, silica
blanket, rockwool, fiberglass etc, but to me in the field I rate
vermiculite as the least noxious with perlite and foamglass as the most
obnoxious by far.

alan scott
Check out the web site for OVENCRAFTERS at http://www.nbn.com/~ovncraft

 

From jovick at island.net Sun Feb 25 17:55:10 2001
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Charcoal Plant
Message-ID: <000e01c09f64$21790860$13eb34d1@computer>

 

February 25, 2001

Hi Jeff & Stovers

Had to send my computer to the Doctor. It is now
clean, and I upgraded my anti virus like I should have done some time
ago.

We had the stack sampling on our charcoal plant
done on Feb,22 and preliminary feedback we are way below what is expectable here
in British Columbia

We ran our plant for 6 hours to do all the
necessary tests, and at the end of the day, the Minister of Environment's
Pollution
Prevention Officer in attendance congratulated us
on our pollution free charcoal plant. He went on to say he was very
impressed.

British Columbia has, only after California the
toughest environmental laws anywhere.( This is a good thing). I have noticed on
several occasions,
different stovers knocking charcoal production as
extremely dirty and polluting. This is no longer true, please come and see a
new, clean way to make charcoal and collect ALL the wood oil during our
continuous process.

A web page will soon be completed.

Best Regards     John 
Flottvik


From tmiles at teleport.com Sun Feb 25 19:54:19 2001
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: FAO Forest Energy Forum Issue 7
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010225163634.00bf1f00@mail.teleport.com>

I recently received Issue 7 of the Forest Energy Forum Newsletter from
Miguel Trossero at FAO. Miguel and his editors have done an excellent job
of drawing together useful bioenergy information and making the link with
many international organizations including the IEA Bioenergy task Force.

You can request a copy of the newsletter from Miguel at Miguel.Trossero@fao.org

Go to the FAO Forest Energy Forum at
http://www.fao.org/forestry/FOP/FOPW/ENERGY/cont-e.stm

Issue 6 of the newsletter is online and issue 8 is in preparation. Deadline
for contributions is April 15, 2001.
http://www.fao.org/forestry/FOP/FOPW/ENERGY/whatnw-e.stm

Thanks also to Auke Koopmans of FAO's Regional Wood Energy Development
Program in Asia www.rwedp.org/ Auke has been a regular supporter and
contributor to the CREST bioenergy lists from his project in Thailand.

Regards,

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator
Thomas R Miles tmiles@trmiles.com
T R Miles, TCI Tel 503-292-0107
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax 503-292-2919
Portland, OR 97225 USA

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Mon Feb 26 19:48:20 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Forwarding postponed cookstove training program
In-Reply-To: <20010226124806.29952.qmail@web3304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01e301c0a057$44f54ee0$caafa0d8@computer>

Stovers:
The following will presumably be of importance to some of you,
especially "stovers" in India.

S.K. - Please let me know if I should sign you up (free) for "stoves"

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: S. K. Sharma <sks_erc@yahoo.com>
To: Ron Larson <ronallarson@qwest.net>
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: Forwarding Rogerio Miranda and S.K Sharma on a cookstove
training program

> Dear Mr. Larson,
> You will be pleased to know that in deference to the
> wishes of a number of persons, the seminar has been
> postponed. The new dates will be intimated shortly.
> These will be either in May or September. Please keep
> in touch and start planning at your end.
> with regards
> S.k.Sharma
> --- Ron Larson <ronallarson@qwest.net> wrote:
> >
> > Stovers: Another delayed announcement of a
> > promising sounding training
> > program.
> >
> > Rogerio: Thanks and sorry for the delay.
> >
> > S.K. Please let me know if you would also like to be
> > a "stoves" list member.
> >
> > Ron
> >

<skip rest>

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Feb 27 07:46:20 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: vermiclite
Message-ID: <ab.6f55d45.27ccfbb2@cs.com>

Maybe the asbestos was mixed in with the mica - they are both alumina
silicates, so could occur together.  

Of maybe mica is also a lung carcinogen.

Or maybe the manufacturer had deep pockets.  

Thanks for identifying the source,

TOM REED

In a message dated 2/25/01 4:56:53 PM Mountain Standard Time,
midwestmonolithic@hotmail.com writes:

Reed,  Perhaps I was wrong in saying it was asbestos fibers but...not long
ago there was a piece on one of the major networks news programs about
people who worked where vemiculite was mined and processed getting some
type of lung ailment that shortened their lives considerably.  What's more
they carried the stuff home on their clothes and spread it to thier
families.  At least one person I believe won a major lawsuit filed on the
mine owner.  The stuff used to be processed in Minneapolis and kids played
in it like a sand pile.  Now they are testing the soil in that neighborhood
for contamination and I think are warning past residents about the possible
problem.  That's all I know.  I've been having problems replying to your
email due to some type of computer glitch I can not solve so perhaps you
can dessiminate this message for me.  Thanks,  Jerry

 

 

From J.R.Rouse at lboro.ac.uk Tue Feb 27 10:12:34 2001
From: J.R.Rouse at lboro.ac.uk (Jonathan Rouse)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Lucknow update
In-Reply-To: <01e301c0a057$44f54ee0$caafa0d8@computer>
Message-ID: <E14XloP-00064n-00@mailer1.lut.ac.uk>

Hi stovers,

Sorry for a long silence from my end. For those of you that don't
know me I attended the Pune conference in November and
presented some 'grass-roots' stove work I did in a village near
Lucknow in India last year. There are a few photos and sketches at
http://www.users.myisp.co.uk/~jonr/india/index.html

This is an update and is a bit of a long email. Sorry - I have tried to
be brief!

PROJECT OUTLINE
The project sought to involve the village community at every stage:
in identification of problems (smoke, health, fuel use and
inconvenience); identification of solutions (better stove and cooking
methods); and stove design, manufacture and dissemination. This
was not a token effort of 'participation' but a genuine attempt to
make this a community led - and sustained - effort.

RECAP
When I reported at the conference around 40 stoves had been built
by a local woman and most were being used by people in their
homes as their main stoves. Various problems had been recorded,
particularly unwillingness to pay whcih seemed to indicate that
people were not convinced of the benefits of the stove. (The stove is
very cheap even against their incomes.) Most people who had a
stove were happy with it and appreciated the fact that it was less
smokey, used less wood and was much quicker and more
convenient. Village cooking competitions were a good tool in
convincing people of the benefits.

The stove is a simple 2 pot mud stove with no chimney, burning
wood and dung. It is called the Mina Stove.

UPDATE January 2001
I visited some of the villages in which the stoves have been built a
few weeks back in January and can now report on the status of the
project.

Many people are still using the stoves and are basically happy with
them. However, a number of people have made alterations, some of
which are detailed below.

THE GRATE
Some people have blocked the grate. The reasons:
- For some, because the clay grate broke and they had not
been told where to buy new parts or how to make them. In one
instance a goat had stepped on it (this was not included in my
tests!) For others, the grates had just broken through use over
time.
- Another family blocked the grate because they saw no reason
for having it ('it makes no difference to the way the fire burns')
- One family blocked it because they didn't lke putting their
hands down the ash hole for fear of poisonous insects. (This is
legitimate - I once pulled out a toad with a handful of ash...)

... Lessons ...
- Explain / demonstrate to people the difference a grate makes
to the ease of operation and smokiness. (My tests indicate they
are very beneficial). Look into this more ... maybe the villagers have
a point...?
- Explain to people where new parts can be obtained (we
always knew the life of clay grates would be quite short) or how
they can make their own.
- Always expect unexpected answers to questions and reasons
why people won't use things! Then act on them. (Is a design
alteration required for the grate hole?)
- Give people the option (if they will pay US$ 0.40) of a metal
grate if they wish.

BLOCKING SECONDARY AIR HOLES
The stove had a number of secondary air holes at the side and rear
of the firebox which drew in air and seemed to improve combustion.
Since installing the new stoves, a number of people have blocked
these holes for two reasons:
1) because they clean their stoves everyday with a layer of
clean mud, so eventually the holes (diameter ~ 15mm) were getting
blocked.
2) because the Mina Stove is basically a rectangular box, and
people decided it would look good and be more convenient with the
top surface of the stove extending out to the side. This provides a
surcase on which to keep pots and prepare food. This is not
something they normally do - so could not really have been
anticipated.

... Lessons ...
- Again - EXPLAIN design features to users! This has come up
many times in the project, and seems to be very important to me. If
people understand why a particular feature is included on a stove,
they will understand why it is worth keeping it there.
- Work around the fact that many people want to make the
Mina Stove into a 'fitted' stove. The secondary air holes seemed to
be quite effective, so are probably worth keeping somehow.

THE FUTURE - NGO Capacity
The main problem holding progress back on this project is a lack of
capacity in IPADS (the implementing NGO) to continue the
dissemination process. It looks like this may be solved in the
foreseeable future with an injection of funds, but at the moment
there simply isn't enough going on with village demonstrations and
promotion - as well as research and follow-up on what has been
done.

The ideal of letting the villagers run and perpetuate the project
themselves has not yet been realised, but I feel that it is possible.
Getting to that stage, however, is going to entail detailed research
leading to a better understanding of the problems at present. The
design may also require further honing to meet local needs.
Business interest and promotion capacity building is also required.

I expect I will add a few things as they come to me. I would, of
course, be happy to answer any specific questions.

Best wishes,

Jon

---------
Jonathan Rouse
Research Assistant
Water, Engineering and Development Centre
www.lboro.ac.uk/wedc/

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Tue Feb 27 18:04:38 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Forwarding John McQuade on waste sawdust use.
In-Reply-To: <829420012523104753370@mweb.co.za>
Message-ID: <036101c0a112$1d5273c0$a87de13f@computer>

 

Stovers:

John is writing from South
Africa, where in an earlier letter he said that there was plenty of free
sawdust available.  Can anyone suggest an optimum approach?


John:   
The clean burning of sawdust is
very difficult.  Look at our website (<A
href="http://www.crest.org">www.crest.org) and under the "stoves"
archives.  See especially the work of Elsen Karstad in Nairobi, who has
concluded the sawdust should be converted to charcoal
briquets. The reason is the extreme difficulty in the combustion of
sawdust.  

Dr. Priyadarshini Karve in Pune
India wrote her Master's thesis on a packed sawdust cookstove -
possibly suitable for use in South Africa. I hope she will describe
her optimization conclusions.  This uses an L-shaped opening and pyrolysis
seems to occur from the inside out. 

There are a number of people
in  our archives talking about making briquettes or pellets from
sawdust.  But straight sawdust combustion is not at all usual.


Are you planning this for possible manufacture?  Giving us some more
background on typical cooking patterns and allowable expenses for a stove will
probably help get better answers.

No cost to be a
member.

Ron
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
vbsmith

To: <A
href="mailto:ronallarson@qwest.net" title=ronallarson@qwest.net>Ron Larson

Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:47
AM
Subject: RE: Re: BOUNCE <A
href="mailto:stoves@crest.org:">stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission
from [TheVillage Blacksmith <<A
href="mailto:vbsmith@mweb.co.za">vbsmith@mweb.co.za>]

Hi Ron,
I am looking for a
design for a home stove or heater that will burn sawdust. Do you have a
drawing? Do you know anyone who has?
Thanks again for your
time.
Best regards
>> John
McQuade.>

From ronallarson at qwest.net Tue Feb 27 21:25:52 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Forwarding_Norbert_Steinm=FCller_on_branchwood_densificati?==?iso-8859-1?Q?on_question?=
In-Reply-To: <200102050905.EAA26552@crest.solarhost.com>
Message-ID: <000601c0a12e$539f72e0$b47ee13f@computer>

Stovers:
Anyone able to suggest leads on the following?

Norbert:
I have signed you up as a "stoves" list member.

I do not believe we have had this question before. Usually, the
briquette/pellet questions relate to sawdust, straws, ag residues, etc.

Some of us have been looking at charcoal-making stoves, where vertically
stacked branchwood works very well. You may wish to explore that option
further.

We had a (now) Dr. El Fadil from Sudan, who received his degree from
Hohenheim on the "stoves" list. He has communicated several times and I
think all is well back in Khartoum. If you are in contact, please say
"Hello" (or the German/Arabic equivalents)

Please keep us informed of your progress on this densification or
material-handling issue (about which there is considerable in our
archives)..

Ron

----- Original Message -----

> To: <stoves@crest.org>
> Subject: wood pellets/briquettes for cooking: processing and burning
efficiency
> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:05:54 -0000

> Dear Stovers,
> in many tropical countries, fuelwood shortage might be considerably
> alleviated if thin branchwood could be marketed as briquettes or pellets.
> For a planned programme with fodder trees, I would be very grateful for
any
> information including sales addresses on:
> small scale briquette or pellet machines and
> burning efficiency of briquettes or pellets for cooking (preferably
compared
> to unprocessed wood or kerosene).
>
> Thank you in advance!
> Norbert Steinmueller

 

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Tue Feb 27 21:25:55 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Forwarding Geoff White query on stoves for South Pacific
In-Reply-To: <200102051443.JAA12845@crest.solarhost.com>
Message-ID: <000701c0a12e$54707e80$b47ee13f@computer>

Stovers: Possibly someone working with coconut shells, etc?

Geoff: I have signed you up for "stoves" (free).

I think you will find that many cook stove issues are generally the same
around the world. Use our list archives
for awhile and you will find there are a range of designs - and little
agreement except on some basic features such as the importance of good
materials, insulation, air control, etc.'

Please keep us informed of your progress.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff White" <gwhite@woodvale.wa.edu.au>
> To: <stoves@crest.org>
> Subject: using woodburning cooking stoves in a tropical country
> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:41:10 +0800

> I'd like some information on design or products (cooking stoves) which =
> can be used in a developing country in the South Pacific area. Wood, =
> sawdust and coconut by-products (husks) are readily available but I =
> would like to help develop a more renewable or environmentally sensitive =
> and efficient approach to fuel use.
> Thanks=20
> Geoff White

 

 

From ronallarson at qwest.net Tue Feb 27 21:27:15 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Forwarding Selina widya with activated charcoal question
Message-ID: <000301c0a12e$50ac2380$b47ee13f@computer>

Stovers - anyone able to help?

Ron

> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:37:13 -0800 (PST)
> From: selina widya <selina_widya@excite.com>
> To: stoves@crest.org
> Subject: activated charcoal
> Dear sir,
> I am a college student majoring biology and at this time I am conducting a
> research for my graduation.
>
> My research is about effect of activated charcoal to plant tissue culture.
>
> I have a question about activated charcoal. As you knew activated charcoal
> can be activied by some chemical substances like NH4CO3. Does that
chemical
> substance remove from activated charcoal?
>
> That's my question. I hope you wanna ask my question.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Selina Widya
>

 

From bhatta at ait.ac.th Tue Feb 27 21:52:55 2001
From: bhatta at ait.ac.th (S.C. Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:48 2004
Subject: Gasifier stove
Message-ID: <3A9C4EA9.C616C088@ait.ac.th>

Dear all,

The details of a natural draft institutional gasifier stove we have
developed
can be found at the web site of a regional research programme funded by
Sida:

www.retsasia.ait.ac.th

Please follow the following path:

Images > Briquetting>Institutional gasifier stove IGS developed at AIT:
Design
details

You can see seven photographs on operation of the stove here. A paper on
the
project was presentd in the Pune stove conference.

We would welcome your feedback/comments. We would like to collaborate
with
anybody interested in disseminating the technology.

S.C. Bhattacharya

-------------------------------------------------------------------
S. C. Bhattacharya Voice : (66-2) 524 5403 (Off)
Professor 524 5913
(Res)
Energy Program
Asian Institute of Technology Fax : (66-2) 524 5439
PO Box 4, Klong Luang 516 2126
Pathumthani 12120 ICQ : 18690996
Thailand e-mail: bhatta@ait.ac.th
-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Feb 28 16:02:44 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:49 2004
Subject: Air fuel ratios in gasification and combustion devices
Message-ID: <d7.2f48c1a.27cec0e4@cs.com>

Good question on top down gasification and charcoal making.  

We aren't publishing a final tubro stove design yet because I make
"improvements" daily, some positive, some negative.  I'm attaching our latest
paper on the Turbo Stove, presented at the PITBC conference last Fall.  

Definitely a negative feature of inverted downdraft gasifiers is that once
lit, it is best to burn off all the volatiles. At that point you can

a)  Cut off all air and keep the charcoal

b)  Increase the gasification air and decrease combustion air to have a
BEAUTIFUL CO flame. The Air/FUel ratios in wood and charcoal downdraft
gasifiers (weight basis) are

Generating Volatiles                               <1.5/1
Burning Volatile Gas                                 ~5/1

Generating CO from charcoal                    6/1
Burning the CO from charcoal                    1/1   

so the air requirement in the charcoal combustion stage is the inverse of
that in the volatile combustion stage.  If nothing else, this is a big
problem in valving the air, and also for relighting the top of the pile
(charcoal) which then becomes wood.  

These are VERY important numbers.  Tattoo them on your tutu.

Forward...          TOM REED

 

In a message dated 2/25/01 9:00:46 AM Mountain Standard Time,
ericbj@club-internet.fr writes:

 

In our "inverted downdraft" (top burning) TURBO STOVE we find that we can
pack 6 inch long X 1/2 inch sticks in, light on top, and have the whole
mass
burn down to the bottom ... like your 6 inch logs in gasifier...
Most interesting.  Do you publish a design? ... N.B. 3-foot to 6-foot logs
in gasifier ...  But to re-load fuel, must one let it go out, then re-light
at the top?  If so, not so good for long periods of use.   

 

Dr. Thomas B. Reed, President, The Biomass Energy Foundation, 1810 Smith Rd.,
Golden, CO 80401
Email reedtb2@cs.com; www.woodgas.com; 303 278 0558 home; 303 278 0560 Fax
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