July 2002 Gasification Archive

For more information to help people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions, please see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org

From psanders at ilstu.edu Mon Jul 1 15:19:44 2002
From: psanders at ilstu.edu (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Small Scale Gasifiers Defined
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20020626140200.0191f100@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20020701083707.01b47c90@mail.ilstu.edu>

John and all (He sent to Stoves list, so I repeat it in this reply to
Stoves and Gasification lists.

My reply is below.

At 09:23 PM 6/30/02 +0200, John Davies wrote:
>Greetings to All,
>
>I have been quietly listening recently without commenting. I find the
>discussion on terminology quite puzzling.
>
>1. Producer gas can only be manufactured in a gasifier, be it large or
>small, stand alone or as a part of a cook stove.
>
>2. When producer gas is burned, I can only consider it to be combustion, be
>it large or small, stand alone or as a part of a cook stove.
>
>In the railway world, the Argentinean locomotive engineer L D Porta called
>the "Staged Gasification" or a "Close Coupled Gasifier" as adapted to steam
>locomotives, " GAS PRODUCER COMBUSTION SYSTEM" or GPCS. This made it quite
>clear that both processes were involved as opposed to straight combustion of
>the fuel. Once again, I do not see any limitation to size in this
>description.
John, I like the terms "producer gas" and maybe the term "gas producer"
(same thing as "gasifier"). The GPCS is good also, but only because it
uses the word combustion in reference to a process that goes from biomass
(or fossil-fuel coal) all the way to energy plus H2O and CO2 (plus wastes)

Note that you then choose to use the expression "straight combustion",
thereby showing the need to constantly clarify which of many vague types of
"combustion" you wish other people to understand. What is "straight
combustion" or any other combustion that is defined without using the word
"combustion" or burning?

Paul

>I hope that this reference gives food for thought in the quest of finding a
>suitable description for stoves using this process.
>
>Regards,
>John Davies.
>Secunda,
>South Africa.

Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D., Fulbright Prof. to Mozambique 8/99 - 7/00
Rotary University Teacher Grantee to Mozambique >10 mo of 2001-2003
Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/200204/
http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>
Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Elsen L. Karstad, elk@wananchi.com www.chardust.com
>
List-Post: <mailto:stoves@crest.org>
List-Help: <mailto:stoves-help@crest.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:stoves-subscribe@crest.org>
>
Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
-
Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
http://www.bioenergy2002.org
http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon
>
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Chambers/Chambers.htm

From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Mon Jul 1 16:33:03 2002
From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: Biofuel and hi-tech stoves needed in Cuba
Message-ID: <3D205780.4030509@cybershamanix.com>

Looks like Cuba is in dire need of alternative technology!

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y02/may02/23e2.htm
http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y02/may02/24e1.htm

--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com

From robertoescardo at arnet.com.ar Mon Jul 1 17:45:19 2002
From: robertoescardo at arnet.com.ar (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Roberto_Escard=F3?=)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: Biofuel and hi-tech stoves needed in Cuba
In-Reply-To: <3D205780.4030509@cybershamanix.com>
Message-ID: <056601c22148$cfb9d6e0$0100a8c0@pentium>

FYI:
Cubans have a good tech infrastructure and in fact they develop some very
interesting "intermediate technology" solutions. We get from them some
biomedical devices, included one for chirurgical treatment of Parkinon
desease, that cost 1/5th of comparable American or European ones.
One argentine engineer, Livio Porta, (80 years old and still working at full
speed!!) perhaps the most kown steam locomotives designer, is working with
cubans in the conversion of old locomotives to burn biomass.(sugar cane
bagasse) A yesterday mail from John Davies lo the stoves list just
mentioned him. (you can get more info at:
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/porta.html )
I am sure that working with cubans will be a very enriching experience and
they are very nice people.
Roberto Escardó

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harmon Seaver" <hseaver@cybershamanix.com>
To: "stoves" <stoves@crest.org>; "gasification" <gasification@crest.org>;
<biofuel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 10:22 AM
Subject: Biofuel and hi-tech stoves needed in Cuba

> Looks like Cuba is in dire need of alternative technology!
>
> http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y02/may02/23e2.htm
> http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y02/may02/24e1.htm
>
> --
> Harmon Seaver
> CyberShamanix
> http://www.cybershamanix.com
>
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/200204/
> http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
> >
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Elsen L. Karstad, elk@wananchi.com www.chardust.com
> >
> List-Post: <mailto:stoves@crest.org>
> List-Help: <mailto:stoves-help@crest.org>
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>
> List-Subscribe: <mailto:stoves-subscribe@crest.org>
> >
> Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> http://www.bioenergy2002.org
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon
> >
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>
>http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Chambers/Chambers.htm
>

From crispin at newdawn.sz Tue Jul 2 18:13:42 2002
From: crispin at newdawn.sz (Crispin)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address
Message-ID: <004001c22215$21a34140$75e80fc4@home>

Dear Stovers

For those who are interested to know, there is a new type of hydrogen engine
in development in South Africa which is about the size of a CPU for a
desktop computer that puts out 130+ HP. It has resolved a lot of the
inherent problems of using hydrogen in an internal combustion engine: like a
very high flame speed and explosive firing rates. I think it must have an
octane rating of about 1! (but I don't know).

Anyway, viable internal combusion for mechanical power from a pretty common
raw material is very good news. The engine is up and running.

Regards
Crispin

From tombreed at attbi.com Thu Jul 4 08:59:07 2002
From: tombreed at attbi.com (Tom Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: New hydrogen engine... ???
In-Reply-To: <004001c22215$21a34140$75e80fc4@home>
Message-ID: <00c401c2235a$09db9710$0680fd0c@TOMBREED>

Dear Crispin and All:

There are advantages and disadvantages to being older than God.

When I saw Crispin's message ...

>>there is a new type of hydrogen engine
> in development in South Africa which is about the size of a CPU for a
> desktop computer that puts out 130+ HP. It has resolved a lot of the
> inherent problems of using hydrogen in an internal combustion engine: like
a
> very high flame speed and explosive firing rates.

my first reaction was

Now all we have to do is find a ready source of hydrogen at a cost < triple
that of any other fuel

Find a good way to store it

And a good way to ship it.

On mature reflection I decided that the whole thing must be hype. If we are
talking a heat engine with < 60% efficiency, disposing of the other 40% heat
will still take a car sized radiator for 130 + HP. That's a LARGE CPU fan!

So, I'll believe it when I see it (and check out hidden pipes, energy
supplies etc).

Hydrogen has been highly touted since about 1970 when the "Hydrogen Economy"
was touted as the answer to what fuel to use when we had electricity "too
cheap to meter" from nuclear power. And still it is just around the corner.

~~~~~~~
While I have my skeptical hat on, I'm still waiting for ethanol from
cellulose hydrolysis after 80 years of hearing announcements of
breakthroughs. (No, I'm not 80 yet, but some of the books I read are....)

Your healthy skeptic,

TOM REED BEF GASWORKS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Crispin" <crispin@newdawn.sz>
To: "Stoves" <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Biomass to Hydrogen Report Web Address

> Dear Stovers
>
> For those who are interested to know, there is a new type of hydrogen
engine
> in development in South Africa which is about the size of a CPU for a
> desktop computer that puts out 130+ HP. It has resolved a lot of the
> inherent problems of using hydrogen in an internal combustion engine: like
a
> very high flame speed and explosive firing rates. I think it must have an
> octane rating of about 1! (but I don't know).
>
> Anyway, viable internal combusion for mechanical power from a pretty
common
> raw material is very good news. The engine is up and running.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
>
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/200204/
> http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
> >
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Elsen L. Karstad, elk@wananchi.com www.chardust.com
> >
> List-Post: <mailto:stoves@crest.org>
> List-Help: <mailto:stoves-help@crest.org>
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>
> List-Subscribe: <mailto:stoves-subscribe@crest.org>
> >
> Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> http://www.bioenergy2002.org
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon
> >
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>
>http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Chambers/Chambers.htm
>
>

From crispin at newdawn.sz Thu Jul 4 11:33:44 2002
From: crispin at newdawn.sz (Crispin)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: More hot hydrogen
Message-ID: <010001c22371$8117ea60$2a47fea9@md>

Dear Tom

>Now all we have to do is find a ready source of hydrogen at a cost
< triple that of any other fuel

I believe he has solved the hydrogen availability problem rather
brilliantly. I do not have a fuel equivalent cost.

>If we are talking a heat engine with < 60% efficiency, disposing of the
>other 40% heat will still take a car sized radiator for 130 + HP.
>That's a LARGE CPU fan!

Of course! It IS a vehicle engine, not a fan!

>Hydrogen has been highly touted since about 1970 when the
>"Hydrogen Economy" was touted as the answer to what fuel
>to use ....

Well, an old man has finally come up with an amazing device. I am
impressed, anyway. He is 87 years old, BTW and many years ago invented the
zinc-air battery. He used a huge one to drive several hundred kilometers in
a modified Bentley in the 40's. In case you think that electric cars are
something that has not been demonstrated decently and that the oil powered
car industry is not machinating in the background to prevent them
'arriving', he sold the patent on the zinc-air batter to the largest
lead-acid battery company in the world for 15 million pounds in 1953 and
they promptly buried it, nearly forever. Recently someone in Korea claims
to have invented (and patented) a marvellous new zinc battery which is
exactly the same one he build in the 50's.

I will ask him what actual power he is getting out of the engine at its
current stage of development.

Regards
Crispin the eye witness

From snkm at btl.net Thu Jul 4 13:06:18 2002
From: snkm at btl.net (Peter Singfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: More hot hydrogen
Message-ID: <3.0.32.20020704110336.0097d9b0@wgs1.btl.net>

At 05:41 PM 7/4/2002 +0200, Crispin wrote:
>Dear Tom
>
>>Now all we have to do is find a ready source of hydrogen at a cost
>< triple that of any other fuel
>
>I believe he has solved the hydrogen availability problem rather
>brilliantly.

How???

By the way --

http://www.metallicpower.com/fuel.htm

Zinc/Air "fuel-cells" -- no kidding -- check it out.

Peter / Belize

From ronallarson at qwest.net Thu Jul 4 20:24:50 2002
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: More hot hydrogen
In-Reply-To: <010001c22371$8117ea60$2a47fea9@md>
Message-ID: <000901c223b8$367e59c0$24ee6541@ronallarson>

Crispin (cc stoves):

For several personal (all volunteer) reasons, I woiuld like to hear more
about your friend's work with hydrogen. See more below.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: "Crispin" <crispin@newdawn.sz>
To: "Stoves" <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 9:41 AM
Subject: More hot hydrogen

> Dear Tom
>
> >Now all we have to do is find a ready source of hydrogen at a cost
> < triple that of any other fuel
>
> I believe he has solved the hydrogen availability problem rather
> brilliantly. I do not have a fuel equivalent cost.

(RWL): Can you describe the general approach to your friend's hydrogen
production? I have several friends who have studied the hydrogen/engiine
approach and have come away convinced that it is not cost effective to
obtain one's hydrogen from methane . The efficiency of that conversion is
not good enough to compare even with fuel cell propulsion (but possibly
justified for other reasons - such as 1) reducing emissions locally and 2)
getting a hydrogen economy started that would be based on renewables at a
later date.) They are not opposed to hydrogen in IC engines if the
hydrogen is generated economically from electrolysis (wind?), biomass, etc.

<snip>

> Well, an old man has finally come up with an amazing device. I am
> impressed, anyway. He is 87 years old, BTW and many years ago invented
the
> zinc-air battery. He used a huge one to drive several hundred kilometers
in
> a modified Bentley in the 40's. In case you think that electric cars are
> something that has not been demonstrated decently and that the oil powered
> car industry is not machinating in the background to prevent them
> 'arriving', he sold the patent on the zinc-air batter to the largest
> lead-acid battery company in the world for 15 million pounds in 1953 and
> they promptly buried it, nearly forever. Recently someone in Korea claims
> to have invented (and patented) a marvellous new zinc battery which is
> exactly the same one he build in the 50's.

(RWL): Can you give us his name? Still interested in batteries? A South
African? Does he still feel that zinc-air is best (compared to Lithium-ion,
etc)? Incidentally, I have been driving a Honda Insight hybrid for about 18
months (60 mpg - almost 100 km/g - or about 25 km per liter) and can endorse
it as a likely strong contender to be the approach of choice for most
vehicles. I wonder if your friend would agree that hybrids look appropriate
in his approach (Amory Lovins does).

>
> I will ask him what actual power he is getting out of the engine at its
> current stage of development.
>
> Regards
> Crispin the eye witness
>
(RWL): What aspect of this energy train is he most working on now?

In the US much of the hydrogen emphasis is on fuel cells. I am told
that we are trying to catch up with good fuel cell progress in Europe and
Japan.

On both the supply and applications side, the national hydrogen R&D
headquarters is at the National Renwable Energy Laboratory (NREL), where Tom
and I both worked (but well before they had started much Hydrogen work). A
furor is growing within the US RE community, because it appears that our US
national emphasis is in the process to shifting to the natural gas, coal,
and nuclear industries. If your friend has something very new that can be
reported (especially on renewables), I have friends who can help get a
hearing.

Lastly, to bring this into the world of "stoves", there is little doubt
that hydrogen would be a perfect household cooking fuel - if it could be
supplied and stored cheaply. I know of no-one making that claim now.

In the last two weeks, I have heard Amory Lovins give two talks on his
"Hypercar" (hydrogen-fuel cell) approach. An engineer who has worked on the
project said the project has still not been picked up by any major auto
firm - as they do not yet have a low enough means of producing and using the
carbon fiber technology needed to get a low-weight, strong car body that
will allow a smaller fuel cell and therefore a small enough on-board storage
system. Any list member knowledgeable on carbon fiber production? (a nice
place to use carbon from carbon-making stoves?) Apparently now the carbon
fibers are mostly coming from the sludge at the end of the diesel fuel
production process. (The preceding a shameful means of promoting
charcoal-making stoves.).

Thanks for bringing your friend's work to our attention. There are many
who would love to see some new promising results in this area.

Anything new to report on your own stove development work?

Ron

From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Fri Jul 5 08:50:32 2002
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (AJH)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: More hot hydrogen
In-Reply-To: <010001c22371$8117ea60$2a47fea9@md>
Message-ID: <0i1biu8a3mlhcm91b1vujafdisjtcj8dng@4ax.com>

On Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:03:22 -0600, "Ron Larson"
<ronallarson@qwest.net> wrote:

>(RWL): Can you describe the general approach to your friend's hydrogen
>production? I have several friends who have studied the hydrogen/engiine
>approach and have come away convinced that it is not cost effective to
>obtain one's hydrogen from methane . The efficiency of that conversion is
>not good enough to compare even with fuel cell propulsion (but possibly
>justified for other reasons - such as 1) reducing emissions locally and 2)
>getting a hydrogen economy started that would be based on renewables at a
>later date.)

If you wish to reduce local emissions then fuel cell or battery
electric cars will do so readily if the electricity is from a
thermonuclear plant. This is about the only route I see to producing
hydrogen as an energy carrier from an electric source. The
thermonuclear plant has great advantages in scaling and need for
constant loads, off peak usage for separating hydrogen will suit this
system. It's going to happen if the society indemnifies the operators
for their future decommissioning costs, it seems unlikely the private
insurance market will enter into this after recent scares. Even if
economic it will overall be a low return on the heat from fission.

I cannot see electrolysis of water (<50% conversion from the high
utility electricity) to hydrogen (a lower utility fuel with limits of
conversion back to electricity of ~75% by fuel cell and <60% by
thermal means), which has high storage and pumping costs, from an
unscheduled renewable source (wave, pv or wind) can possibly happen
until the renewable electricity source reaches the magic 20% limit for
unscheduled supplies. What is Non-Canadian North America's current
supply from these sources, as a percentage?

> They are not opposed to hydrogen in IC engines if the
>hydrogen is generated economically from electrolysis (wind?), biomass, etc.
>
I think Tom has pointed out, electrolysis may make hydrogen of high
quality, necessary to prevent contamination of fuel cell membranes to
give an operating life of the, typically, present few hundred hours
but it is wasteful to do so. Thermal systems co generating electricity
and hydrogen are inherently more efficient. IMO, with existing grids
for natural gas and electricity, biomass will make better sense in
local reformation to a local grid system, methane in this case would
be a better carrier, reformed from syngas. I guess it may be worth
starting to think about after we deplete coal reserves, maybe 2100?

>(RWL): Can you give us his name? Still interested in batteries? A South
>African? Does he still feel that zinc-air is best (compared to Lithium-ion,
>etc)? Incidentally, I have been driving a Honda Insight hybrid for about 18
>months (60 mpg - almost 100 km/g - or about 25 km per liter) and can endorse
>it as a likely strong contender to be the approach of choice for most
>vehicles. I wonder if your friend would agree that hybrids look appropriate
>in his approach (Amory Lovins does).

I envy your choice of car, I think it is a good first step but the
battery system is costly per Whr recovered and it is only recovering
fossil fueled motion, there is no option to charge and then boot the
motion up from a renewable source, though of course you could run it
on ethanol.

In fact the modern direct injection diesels offer better overall
performance unless there is a local zero emission

>> Crispin the eye witness
>>
>(RWL): What aspect of this energy train is he most working on now?
>
> In the US much of the hydrogen emphasis is on fuel cells. I am told
>that we are trying to catch up with good fuel cell progress in Europe and
>Japan.

We have a fuel cell running our local swimming baths, it is overhyped
and there are questions about its useful life.
>
> On both the supply and applications side, the national hydrogen R&D
>headquarters is at the National Renwable Energy Laboratory (NREL), where Tom
>and I both worked (but well before they had started much Hydrogen work). A
>furor is growing within the US RE community, because it appears that our US
>national emphasis is in the process to shifting to the natural gas, coal,
>and nuclear industries.

One thing about your current administration is that they can plainly
see the writing on the wall and have already decided what they will
do.

> If your friend has something very new that can be
>reported (especially on renewables), I have friends who can help get a
>hearing.
>
> Lastly, to bring this into the world of "stoves", there is little doubt
>that hydrogen would be a perfect household cooking fuel - if it could be
>supplied and stored cheaply. I know of no-one making that claim now.
>
> In the last two weeks, I have heard Amory Lovins give two talks on his
>"Hypercar" (hydrogen-fuel cell) approach. An engineer who has worked on the
>project said the project has still not been picked up by any major auto
>firm - as they do not yet have a low enough means of producing and using the
>carbon fiber technology needed to get a low-weight, strong car body that
>will allow a smaller fuel cell and therefore a small enough on-board storage
>system.

I think they are looking at the carbon fibres to store the fuel as
well. They consider that fullerine nanotube technology will enable
hydrogen storage in ultra high pressure, lightweight vessels. I will
use this when I settle on Mars for my retirement ;^).

There is a forthcoming conference by the carbon group where there is,
reputedly, to be a discussion paper on nanotube fuel storage, I can
find details and expect it is UK.

> Any list member knowledgeable on carbon fiber production?

A bit from gossip with someone I know quite well in the field ;-).

> (a nice
>place to use carbon from carbon-making stoves?)

> Apparently now the carbon
>fibers are mostly coming from the sludge at the end of the diesel fuel
>production process.

Pitch? This has been used to form self lubricating pistons for use in
ceramic bores also.

The source for carbon fibres became polyacrylonitrile. This was
pyrolysed under tension between reels either side of the carboniser, I
imagine it was easier to knock out the nitrogen bonds than the C=>O
ones without disrupting the carbon chain.

AJH

From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Thu Jul 11 16:23:41 2002
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (AJH)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: More hot hydrogen
In-Reply-To: <010001c22371$8117ea60$2a47fea9@md>
Message-ID: <kcpriukdnh8hu4rs033bu3j243kpe8ppmo@4ax.com>

It's all gone a bit quiet again since the colonists celebrated their
independence! Just to follow up a couple of points in my post, pretty
well off topic for stoves but it corrects a misunderstanding I had.

On Fri, 05 Jul 2002 13:41:12 +0100, AJH <andrew.heggie@dtn.ntl.com>
wrote:
>
>I envy your choice of car, I think it is a good first step but the
>battery system is costly per Whr recovered and it is only recovering
>fossil fueled motion, there is no option to charge and then boot the
>motion up from a renewable source, though of course you could run it
>on ethanol.
>
>In fact the modern direct injection diesels offer better overall
>performance unless there is a local zero emission

I meant to add the word "requirement" at the end of this sentence.

>I think they are looking at the carbon fibres to store the fuel as
>well. They consider that fullerine nanotube technology will enable
>hydrogen storage in ultra high pressure, lightweight vessels.

The storage proposed will use a pressure swing to achieve weak bonding
of the hydrogen, the pressure thus need not be very high, it will act
like a switch forming and breaking bonds.

The Forum coming up in UK on this technology is called "NanoteC'02"
and is in Brighton at the end of August.

Anyone else in UK going to the ITDG and shell "power to the people"
seminar?

AJH

From tmiles at trmiles.com Thu Jul 18 11:29:20 2002
From: tmiles at trmiles.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: Emma George Stove Report from Uganda
Message-ID: <002501c22e91$59a1d970$6501a8c0@tommain>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Still" <dstill@epud.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 1:52 PM
Subject: Fw: Emma George Stove Report from Uganda

PDF version of Woodstoves for Uganda: Testing Stoves and Finding Better
Designs, June 2002 at
http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/George/WoodstovesforUgand
a.pdf

> Dear Tom,
>
> Emma George sends us her report on stoves being used in Uganda. It
documents
> what has been proven again and again by numerous investigators: that
> replacing the three stone fire with a high mass stove can increase fuel
use.
> Yet, governments and stove promotors continue to build outdated stoves
> demonstrating, I suppose, the inertia of institutions. Luckily, stoves can
> easily be improved by following accepted engineering principles. Several
> improved stoves also tested by Ms. George show that simple stoves can
> improve fuel efficiency while removing smoke from the kitchen.
>
> The appropriate technology movement, which includes building better
> vernacular stoves, would obviously benefit from follow up studies that
> determine whether a project succeeded or not. GTZ deserves a lot of credit
> for funding this report. As the wise man said, "Those who don't learn
from
> history, are bound to repeat it."
>
> Best,
>
> Dean Still
> Aprovecho
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: emma@george.as <emma@george.as>
> To: dstill@epud.net <dstill@epud.net>
> Date: Sunday, July 07, 2002 2:53 AM

From tmiles at trmiles.com Thu Jul 18 16:23:23 2002
From: tmiles at trmiles.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: Emma George Stove Report from Uganda
Message-ID: <002301c22eba$4d693350$6501a8c0@tommain>

Stovers,

The complete URL did not appear in my earlier message so I'm resending this.

PDF version of Woodstoves for Uganda: Testing Stoves and Finding Better
Designs, June 2002 at

http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/George/WoodstovesforUgand
a.pdf

Tom

From tmiles at trmiles.com Thu Jul 18 16:45:27 2002
From: tmiles at trmiles.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: Fw: Emma George Stove Report from Uganda
Message-ID: <001201c22ebd$7bc61170$6501a8c0@tommain>

http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/George/WoodstovesforUganda.pdf

From dstill at epud.net Thu Jul 18 18:47:59 2002
From: dstill at epud.net (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: Shell in the shell or out ?
Message-ID: <002f01c22ec9$bde375a0$291e6c0c@default>

Dear Richard,

Two separate projects to build Rocket stoves with chimneys have moved into
the second round with Shell, one in Nicaragua and one in Guatemala. I'm
really happy that Shell seems to be interested in supporting building stoves
as one direct way to improve indoor air quality. In my opinion, the
conversations that Shell sponsored support this course of action and it
makes good sense.

Best,

Dean

From dstill at epud.net Fri Jul 19 20:23:27 2002
From: dstill at epud.net (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: light weight bricks, air placement, etc.
Message-ID: <002301c22f81$a96ee920$be1e6c0c@default>

Dear Stovers:

Ken Goyer taught a class on refractory ceramic solutions to the June
Advanced Studies in AT class here at Aprovecho. The students seemed to
enjoy the subject and have been doing some more experimenting on their own.
Damon Ogle and Jim Wilmes had made some refractory insulative bricks from
clay and perlite that seemed promising. Damon returned to the lab this last
week for two days and Ken and Larry, Damon and Jeff & I made up a new batch
of bricks that use less clay and are getting lighter and hopefully more
insulative. Perlite is readily available in South Africa and Uganda so
learning about this approach may be fruitful.

(At the same time we are looking into modern alternatives with help from
Thermal Ceramics, Foseco, etc. hoping to find a magic material that costs
very little, is highly insulative, and a bit more rugged that riser sleeves,
which are close to perfect...We want to join the Billion Stoves club, too!
Finding a great combustion chamber for sale would make it all so much
easier. We are with you, Tom!!)

The new bricks are based on road building experience. Damon Ogle, an
engineer, builds roads and brings this experience to creating light weight
ceramic bricks for use in stoves. The gravel for roads is made up of about 7
different sizes of material that have been found to fill in spaces best so
that less binder is necessary. Only about 5% asphalt is necessary if a best
mix of gravel is used. So Damon led us in investigating whether using the
same road building proportions might lessen the amount of clay needed as a
binder with pumice rock and perlite. Using less clay should result in light
bricks, more insulative. Our test bricks have from 5% to 30 % clay.

Ken, Apro ceramics expert, will be firing the bricks soon and we'll get back
with results.

Damon Ogle also built a wonderful Rocket stove experiment that has revealed
some great data on the effect of air placement in the combustion chamber on
exit temperatures, a good predictor of efficiency of heat transfer. The
following is his summary:

variations in the size and location of air openings in a modified “rocket
stove” and their effect on exhaust temperatures

Standard geometry for a “rocket elbow” recommends placing a shelf in the
mouth of the combustion chamber 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the
feed tube. A single layer of sticks (with air spaces between) is placed on
top of the shelf and some free air enters above the sticks. Air entering
under the shelf is partially preheated and passes up through the burning
sticks. As the sticks burn off, the “charcoal “ ends fall into the bottom
of the combustion chamber and a portion of the “under shelf” air passes
through this “charcoal” layer
The cross sectional area of a 5” feed tube is about 19 1/2 square inches
with about 71% above the shelf and 29% under. The percentages of cross
sectional area for four components: (1) sticks, (2), air “above sticks”,
(3) air between sticks and charcoal layer, and (4) air through the charcoal
layer, are unknown.
The purpose of this experiment was to construct a stove in which the cross
sectional area of each of the 4 components is measurable and adjustable.
The total cross sectional area was held constant at 19 ½ square inches but
different percentages of air were directed to different areas of the stove.
The output temperature of the stove was measured for each of 9 air input
configurations to see if air input had an effect on exit temperatures..

RESULTS
Cross sectional area
Exit Temperature (deg F)
(%) sticks above sticks mid-level under charcoal
Max T Min T Est Mode
12 59 23 6
1429 921 1175
12 50 23 15
1441 1050 1208
12 40 23 25
1380 1040 1200
12 30 23 35
1510 1025 1283
12 20 23 45
1595 1148 1383
12 10 23 55
1839 1311 1625
12 10 15 63
1810 1379 1641
12 10 7 ½ 70 ½
1846 1439 1658
12 10 0 78
1880 1481 1733

These results are the average of three “runs” each at 9 different settings.
“Estimated mode” represents the averages of my best guess of the temperature
around which exit gases hovered during each period of observation. Minimum
and Maximum Temperatures are actual measurements for the period. The
highest temperature observed during the tests was 1921 F.

PROCEDURE
- Outside air temperature and weather conditions were recorded.
- The feed magazine was loaded and the fire was started using ½ a sheet of
newspaper and a small amount of finer wood. New sticks were added to the
magazine as fuel was consumed.
- The stove was allowed to run for 20+ minutes to allow a stable state to be
reached.
- After each new setting of adjustments was made, the stove was allowed to
run for 2 minutes before recording was begun.
- The temperature probe was placed 1” below the top of the rocket chimney in
the center of the tube
- Temperatures were recorded for a period of 8 minutes for each setting.
During this time the thermometer was observed and a visual estimate was made
of the mode temperature. At the end of this period, the estimated mode T,
actual maximum T and actual minimum T were recorded.
- Adjustments were made to the damper settings and the procedure was
repeated until all 9 variations had been recorded.
- At the end of each run, the coals were allowed to burn off from the
screen. Very little charcoal remained and the screen stayed fairly open and
clean.

The results of this experiment seem to indicate that location and size of
air inlets does have a noticeable effect on the exit temperatures of the
stove. In general, the less air entering above the feed shelf and the more
air entering through the “charcoal” layer, the higher the exit gases
temperature. The most noticeable jump in exit temperature took place when
the air space above the feed shelf was minimized at 1/8” above the level of
the sticks. This represented 10% of the total cross sectional area (6%
between the sticks and 4% in the 1/8” gap above the sticks, which was needed
to allow for “kick-up” of the sticks as they were fed into the combustion
chamber). This observation seems to confirm the possibility that excess air
entering the chimney above the feed level cools the exit gases more than it
produces heat by encouraging combustion of pyrolysis products
No instruments were available to measure actual air flow, but it is
reasonable to suppose that cross sectional area and air flow are closely
related. Even with a full load of coals on the bottom screen, there
appeared to be unimpeded flow of air at all times.
The stainless steel screen seemed to be structurally sound after some 10
hours at very high temperatures. Perhaps this is because cool air is
continuously entering on the bottom of the screen. Only time will tell how
long it will actually hold up, but I am encouraged by it’s performance so
far.
The thinner sheet metal in other parts of the stove was oxidized and almost
worn through in some places. It will have to be replaced before further
experiments can be performed.
As one would expect, there were more and higher flames visible at the top of
the chimney when higher exit temperatures were obtained. More smoke was
also observed at these higher temperatures. This suggests that higher
Temperatures alone are not sufficient to clean up combustion.
I’m hoping that a combination of a higher chimney and /or limiting the draft
in some way will help obtain a cleaner burn. At least, that’s what I’ll try
next.

These are the conclusions I came to after the experiment:

The exit gas temperatures in a “rocket” stove are strongly dependent on the
size and location of air inlets.
Air entering the rocket stove above the level of the sticks in the feed
opening tends to cool the exit gases of the stove.
Air entering at the “mid-level” (below the sticks but above the coals) is
less effective in increasing stove temperatures than air being forced up
through the coals.
Exit temperatures can be increased by minimizing the air which is allowed to
enter the stove through the area above the feed shelf and maximizing the air
which is forced to pass upward through the coals underneath the feed shelf.

WHAT A GREAT EXPERIMENT! A STUDENT/COLLEAGUE LIKE THIS MAKE ME A VERY
CONTENTED TEACHER!!....Dr. Winiarski is a great believer is directing air at
the coals and this experiment seems to put some numbers to the benefit. By
the way, the next Aprovecho stove class begins August 19 to 23 and we'll be
looking at reducing emissions, etc. Contact me for more info.

Best,

Dean

From adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in Sat Jul 20 16:53:56 2002
From: adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in (A.D. Karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: shell project
Message-ID: <000201c23054$bb08d6e0$0550c5cb@adkarvepn2.vsnl.net.in>

Members of this group were curious to know, who has been
shortlisted by the Shell Foundation. Our Institute has been
shortlisted.
Dr.A.D.Karve, President,
Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
Pune, India

From elk at wananchi.com Sat Jul 20 22:04:29 2002
From: elk at wananchi.com (elk)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: Shell Foundation Shortlist
Message-ID: <002901c2307d$0301f3a0$e340083e@default>

Chardust's proposal been shortlisted by the
Shell Foundation within the modern energy supplies category.

24 applications were selected out of 306
submissions and 14 projects will be funded- 7 each within the two categories;
household energy and health and modern energy supplies.

All those shortlisted are undoubtedly now hard at
work on their full applications and will be expecting a Shell Foundation
representative to visit on-site sometime within the next two
months.

I'm sure stoves list members will have a strong
presence in final 14 projects.

elk

--------------------------Elsen L.
Karstadelk@wananchi.com<A
href="http://www.chardust.com">www.chardust.comNairobi
Kenya

From tmiles at trmiles.com Sun Jul 21 17:52:01 2002
From: tmiles at trmiles.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:56 2004
Subject: Testing Reports: Excess Air and Higher Temperature for Rocket Stoves
Message-ID: <02c401c23122$4a811da0$6501a8c0@tommain>

Stovers,

We've added two new pieces to the Stoves website
http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/

Andrew Heggie, <A
href="http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/AJHeggie/AJHAspirator.html">Using Excess Air: Experiments With A Steam
Aspirator


Damon Ogle, <A
href="http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Ogle/DOStovetest.html">Rocket Stoves In Search of Higher Temperatures


Some of you may be having problems with the Emma
George paper. We'll see if we can improve the unfolding of that document
next week.

Regards,

Tom Miles

From rmiranda at entelnet.bo Mon Jul 22 18:33:27 2002
From: rmiranda at entelnet.bo (Rogerio Miranda)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Shell Foundation Shortlist
In-Reply-To: <002901c2307d$0301f3a0$e340083e@default>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20020722165631.00ce3a30@entelnet.bo>

We at PROLENA/Nicaragua also made to the shortlist, with our Ecostove
project. I understand that 8 projects will be selected from this shortlist,
not 7????

To my friends, please note my new Email address now from Bolivia.

Best wishes

Rogerio

At 08:41 AM 7/21/2002 +0300, elk wrote:
>Chardust's proposal been shortlisted by the Shell Foundation within the
>modern energy supplies category.
>
>24 applications were selected out of 306 submissions and 14 projects will
>be funded- 7 each within the two categories; household energy and health
>and modern energy supplies.
>
>All those shortlisted are undoubtedly now hard at work on their full
>applications and will be expecting a Shell Foundation representative to
>visit on-site sometime within the next two months.
>
>I'm sure stoves list members will have a strong presence in final 14 projects.
>
>elk
>
>--------------------------
>Elsen L. Karstad
><mailto:elk@wananchi.com>elk@wananchi.com
>www.chardust.com
>Nairobi Kenya
>
>
>

From robertoescardo at arnet.com.ar Wed Jul 24 08:18:01 2002
From: robertoescardo at arnet.com.ar (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Roberto_Escard=F3?=)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Congratulations
Message-ID: <01df01c2332e$03940660$0100a8c0@pentium>

Congratulations to all
Stovers selected for Shell Foundation RFP short list and I
hope they get the grants!!!
Roberto Escardó

From adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in Thu Jul 25 18:22:36 2002
From: adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in (A.D. Karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Shell Foundation Project
Message-ID: <000201c2344e$eb812cc0$1656c5cb@adkarvepn2.vsnl.net.in>

I have received congratulations and good wishes from a number
of stovers for having been shortlisted by the Shell Foundation. Thanks to all of
them. I am sorry that I cannot answer each of them individually, because I am
terribly busy. It appears that the financial situation of our Government
has improved, because three of our proposals that were held in
abeyance, have recently been sanctioned by different funding agencies. The
National Bank for Agriculture and Rural Development has sanctioned us funds for
a three year project for establishment of 30 low cost tissue culture
laboratories and 300 franchisee nurseries in the State of Maharashtra, for
producing good quality planting material of sugarcane, banana, ginger and
turmeric. The plantlets produced in tissue culture are too costly to be used by
farmers directly as planting material. Therefore the micropropagated plantlets
would be supplied to the nurseries, which would use them as mother plants, and
multiply them for one year under nursery conditions. The nursery
grown plants would be sold to farmers. This is a pilot project. The
potential entrepreneurs would receive financial help from the Bank, but we have
to see to it that the entrepreneurs succeed. Potential market for this business
in Maharashtra State alone is annually US$400 million, and one would require at
least 4000 tissue culture laboratories and 80,000 nurseries to satisfy this
demand. The Ministry of Rural Development has recognised the value of the
work we have been conducting on developing Bamboo as a material for constructing
rural outdoor structures such as fences, water tanks, huts, cattle corrals,
scaffoldings for vines etc. The Ministry has asked us to submit a proposal under
which 100 farmers would establish bamboo plantations and we would teach them how
to construct various bamboo items. The Ministry of Science and Technology has
agreed to pay us a grant of US$ 10,000 every year for the next five years as
seed money for conducting preliminary experiments on innovative ideas of ours in
order to test their feasibility. If the preliminary experiments showed that we
were on the right track, we then approach a funding agency with a proposal for
large scale funding. The Government of India has also decided to spend money on
programmes aimed at empowering rural women. Under this programme, we have
been asked to submit a proposal for establishing a rural technology
training centre for women. About 20 innovative technologies developed by our
Institute would be taught to women's self help groups. We have already
commercialised several of these thechnologies through a co-operative established
by us. The co-operative has been in profit from the day one. The National
Institute for Rural Development has asked us to establish permanent live
demonstrations of these technologies on their campus. The briquetting technology
has also caught the imagination of people. We hope to start at least 50
centres during the current calendar year for producing char briquettes in the
sugarcane growing areas of Maharashtra state. The "Sarai" stove-and-cooker
system which would be using our briquettes as fuel, is selling very well. We
have no doubts at all about finding a market for our char briquette
entrep[reneurs.
A.D.Karve

From crispin at newdawn.sz Tue Jul 30 06:22:21 2002
From: crispin at newdawn.sz (Crispin)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Banboo
Message-ID: <002701c23720$fec994a0$896bfea9@home>

Dear Stovers

Can anyone point me in the direction of a bamboo charcoaling technique?

Thanks
Crispin

From ronallarson at qwest.net Tue Jul 30 07:57:26 2002
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Banboo
In-Reply-To: <002701c23720$fec994a0$896bfea9@home>
Message-ID: <009401c237e1$a94780c0$2275fea9@w5k6v8>

Crispin:

I think that the "charcoal-making stove" concept (top-lighting, small
amount of controllable primary air, vertical stacking of pieces, dry "wood")
should work perfectly. Unfortunately, I have not heard of it being tried -
as bamboo is relatively expensive here in Colorado and most of the US where
charcoal-making stove development has occured.

The issue is whether to punch out the periodic closure and therby
charcoal from both inside and outside the bamboo piece - or whether to leave
those closures (what is the technical term?) in and charcoal only from the
outside.

We have had a considerable discussion on this list about using "holey"
briquettes - and the considerable value of that hole in promoting pyrolysis.
I see the bamboo in the same category - if stacked vertically.

Has anyone building charcoal-making stoves ever tried using bamboo? If
it works, it would be great as bamboo is such a fast grower and I believe
gives good charcoal. (It might have to be ground up to make a better
briquette??)

2. Otherwise, I think all of the charcoaling approaches should work - with
the problem that bamboo is not very dense - so considerable volume is
required (not a particular problem with a charcoal-making stove design -
since they are relatively small anyway).

Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Crispin <crispin@newdawn.sz>
To: Stoves <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 10:53 AM
Subject: Banboo

> Dear Stovers
>
> Can anyone point me in the direction of a bamboo charcoaling technique?
>
> Thanks
> Crispin
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/200204/
> http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
> >
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Elsen L. Karstad, elk@wananchi.com www.chardust.com
> >
> List-Post: <mailto:stoves@crest.org>
> List-Help: <mailto:stoves-help@crest.org>
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>
> List-Subscribe: <mailto:stoves-subscribe@crest.org>
> >
> Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> http://www.bioenergy2002.org
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon
> >
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>
>http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Chambers/Chambers.htm
>
>
>

From cree at dowco.com Tue Jul 30 14:26:01 2002
From: cree at dowco.com (John Olsen)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Banboo/briquettes.
In-Reply-To: <002701c23720$fec994a0$896bfea9@home>
Message-ID: <007401c23817$e3ac0520$6d8457d1@olsen>

Hi,
re Ron's comment ; (It might have to be ground up to make a better
briquette??)
I would like to get hold of some bamboo to make some briquettes for testing
at our new factory, in Cloverdale, BC.
regards
John Olsen
www.heatloginc.com

From hseaver at cybershamanix.com Tue Jul 30 15:14:10 2002
From: hseaver at cybershamanix.com (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Banboo/briquettes.
In-Reply-To: <002701c23720$fec994a0$896bfea9@home>
Message-ID: <20020730221513.GA1298@cybershamanix.com>

I wonder if there's any growing on the coast? I know it grows pretty well
(some varieties, that is, but some fairly big (3"-4" dia.) ones) down by
Portland, OR.

On Tue, Jul 30, 2002 at 03:24:30PM -0700, John Olsen wrote:
> Hi,
> re Ron's comment ; (It might have to be ground up to make a better
> briquette??)
> I would like to get hold of some bamboo to make some briquettes for testing
> at our new factory, in Cloverdale, BC.
> regards
> John Olsen
> www.heatloginc.com
>
>
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/200204/
> http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
> >
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Elsen L. Karstad, elk@wananchi.com www.chardust.com
> >
> List-Post: <mailto:stoves@crest.org>
> List-Help: <mailto:stoves-help@crest.org>
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>
> List-Subscribe: <mailto:stoves-subscribe@crest.org>
> >
> Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> http://www.bioenergy2002.org
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon
> >
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> >http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Chambers/Chambers.htm

--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com

From rstanley at legacyfound.org Tue Jul 30 16:06:45 2002
From: rstanley at legacyfound.org (Richard Stanley)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Banboo/briquettes and other uses
In-Reply-To: <002701c23720$fec994a0$896bfea9@home>
Message-ID: <3D46C7BD.4AEAC562@legacyfound.org>

Its a bit off the track but , we made the "puluwan karanda waturra pump ekak"
translated roughly from Singhala as " You can do it pump" as in 'the little red
engine that could' ---out of Bamboo back in peace corps days a thousand years
in the little village of Ambepussa in was then Ceylon . It managed to produce
water for shallow wells for a few months until it would begin to rot out giving
less than desireable water.

RPCV Stanley
Ceylon 2

John Olsen wrote:

> Hi,
> re Ron's comment ; (It might have to be ground up to make a better
> briquette??)
> I would like to get hold of some bamboo to make some briquettes for testing
> at our new factory, in Cloverdale, BC.
> regards
> John Olsen
> www.heatloginc.com
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/200204/
> http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
> >
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Elsen L. Karstad, elk@wananchi.com www.chardust.com
> >
> List-Post: <mailto:stoves@crest.org>
> List-Help: <mailto:stoves-help@crest.org>
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>
> List-Subscribe: <mailto:stoves-subscribe@crest.org>
> >
> Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> http://www.bioenergy2002.org
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
> http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon
> >
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> >http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Chambers/Chambers.htm

From ronallarson at qwest.net Tue Jul 30 20:30:14 2002
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Fw: Banboo
Message-ID: <012201c2384a$d09423e0$2275fea9@w5k6v8>

Stovers (cc Alex, Crispin, and A.D.):
Alex has said it was OK to forward this message. I am apologetic that I
had forgotten about Alex' excellent work in Phalton about 1.7 years ago on
making charcoal from bamboo. I was there during some of the early
fabrication of the apparatus - and remembered seeing this report - but had
forgotten that his work was on bamboo. I strongly recommend this photo
essay identified below - and then especially the background paper that Alex
gave at the Pune conference, which is referenced in the photo essay..

I believe that Alex has done some of the best experimental and
monitoring work of anyone on this list - and he also explains everything
better than almost anyone. Note that Alex ran his "barrel" size unit in
Canada at a very constant (and large) output for more than 11 hours - with
the CO level less than 100 ppm throughout. It has been too long since we
have heard from Alex.

This geometry is very similar to that for a cookstove. The advantage I
see for the smaller stove size is that the tremendously valuable (being
controllable and clean) waste heat can be well utilized. In developing
countries, there are not enough applications that can utilize as much energy
as contained in a barrel of biomass. I believe that this piped clean heat
could be used in such larger sizes for brickmaking, a ceramics factory,
maybe a bakery, a lime kiln, etc. The fuel can be free - as the by-product
charcoal is worth more than the incoming biomass. No one has done this to
my knowledge.

Questions for Alex:
1. What charcoal conversion efficiency by weight were you achieving (%
by weight) - both in Canada and in India?
2. Anything special or unusual about using bamboo as a feedstock? (Did
pyrolysis go a lot faster, being less dense?)
3. Did the charcoal from bamboo appear fairly normal?
4. Presumably there was no possibility of taking out the small amount
of material that periodically blocks the air flow up the middle of bamboo.
However, was there any evidence that pyrolysis gases were predominantly
exiting up the inside of the biomass stalks, rather than outside? (anything
like the "holey briquette"?)

A.D. 1. Anything to report on furthering of Alex' two days of work in
Phaltan?
2. Anything more to add on bamboo (A.D. knows a great deal about
bamboo - as well as being our excellent host in Pune-Phaltan.)

Crispin: I suggest your friend interested in biomass from bamboo will get a
good start from this work by Alex. ours is the type of establishment that
could turn this into a very productive form of employment. To the best of
my knowledge, noone has picked up on Alex' excellent natural draft
large-scale work.
To others who may have forgotten, I recommend a look at Crispin's
website: at www.newdawn-engineering.com. Crispin is doing some fascinating
work on hand-powered equipment for rural areas.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: Alex English <english@kingston.net>
To: Ron Larson <ronallarson@qwest.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Banboo

> Hi Ron,
> I spent a couple of days in Phaltan right after the conference, so as to
demonstrate the
> top-down charcoal maker. So we built an oil drum model and used bamboo as
fuel.
> An account with pictures is at the crest/stoves website.
> http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/English/phaltan.htm
> I don't think I can post to the list until I am subscribed from this
computor. So forward
> this to the list if you like.
>
> Alex
> > Crispin:
> >
> > I think that the "charcoal-making stove" concept (top-lighting,
small
> > amount of controllable primary air, vertical stacking of pieces, dry
"wood")
> > should work perfectly. Unfortunately, I have not heard of it being
tried -
> > as bamboo is relatively expensive here in Colorado and most of the US
where
> > charcoal-making stove development has occured.
> >
> > The issue is whether to punch out the periodic closure and therby
> > charcoal from both inside and outside the bamboo piece - or whether to
leave
> > those closures (what is the technical term?) in and charcoal only from
the
> > outside.
> >
> > We have had a considerable discussion on this list about using
"holey"
> > briquettes - and the considerable value of that hole in promoting
pyrolysis.
> > I see the bamboo in the same category - if stacked vertically.
> >
> > Has anyone building charcoal-making stoves ever tried using bamboo?
If
> > it works, it would be great as bamboo is such a fast grower and I
believe
> > gives good charcoal. (It might have to be ground up to make a better
> > briquette??)
> >
> > 2. Otherwise, I think all of the charcoaling approaches should work -
with
> > the problem that bamboo is not very dense - so considerable volume is
> > required (not a particular problem with a charcoal-making stove design -
> > since they are relatively small anyway).
> >
> > Ron
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Crispin <crispin@newdawn.sz>
> > To: Stoves <stoves@crest.org>
> > Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 10:53 AM
> > Subject: Banboo
> >
> >
> > > Dear Stovers
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me in the direction of a bamboo charcoaling
technique?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Crispin
> > >
> > > -

<snip>

> Alex English
> 399 Church St
> Enterprise Ontario
> Canada K0K 1Z0
>
>

From dstill at epud.net Tue Jul 30 22:00:56 2002
From: dstill at epud.net (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Fuelwood Tests in El Salvador
Message-ID: <002501c23856$5da91460$411e6c0c@default>

Dear Friends,

Stuart Conway is directing a Trees, Water, and People funded
before and after wood use study. The study is a preliminary trial run conducted
by Patrick Flynn, Aprovecho graduate, in El Coco, El Salvador. Wood use will be
measured before and after the introduction of the Justa griddle stove with
chimney hopefully shedding light on a accurate method for in field determination
of potential fuel savings with this particular stove.

I hope that every Rocket stove project will include a good
follow up study. In my opinion, funders should insist on follow up studies. Our
field is absolutely littered with contradictory anecdotal reports but little
hard data. Let's all agree to set a scientifically valid standard for the new
wave of AT stove projects by reversing this unfortunate characteristic! THANKS
TWP!!

Best,

Dean
Patrick Flynn writes:

"Hi all,
The test has begun!!!!! Last Sunday we gave out over 6,200 pounds of
wood to 18 different families. We did not have enough wood for the last
two houses. I think that some people took advantage of us, or 'Nos
aprovecharon'. One family took away over 500 pounds of wood for two
weeks!!!! However, I am content knowing that no one should run out of wood
before the two weeks test is up. I am going to stop by unannounced one or
two times throughout the test to make sure they are not using other wood or
giving wood away to neighbors. Other than that i am going to stay clear of
the test homes until I return to weigh the wood in two weeks."
THE FAMILIES WILL THEN BE RECEIVING JUSTA STOVES
AND WHEN SETTLED IN, THE WOOD USE TEST WILL BE REDONE. RESULTS OF THIS
PRELIMINARY STUDY WILL BE FORTHCOMING TO BOTH ETHOS AND CREST.
DEAN

From owen at africaonline.co.ke Wed Jul 31 00:22:37 2002
From: owen at africaonline.co.ke (Matthew Owen)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Bamboo in Thailand
In-Reply-To: <002701c23720$fec994a0$896bfea9@home>
Message-ID: <024101c2386b$648f6350$494ecac3@toshibauser>

In Lampang in central Thailand there are 2 outfits making charcoal
briquettes from bamboo waste. Or at least there were when I visited in 1999.
The waste came from cottage industries making chopsticks and toothpicks. All
the jointed sections of the bamboo used to be thrown away, but two
briquetting companies were instead getting the farmers to carbonise this
material and bring it to their factories. They paid the farmers cash by the
kg.

The farmers used a rather rudimentary carbonisation system which was in fact
nothing more than very large open cylinders into which the bamboo pieces
were heaped and then lit. This led to low conversion efficiencies and high
ash content, as well as some poorly burned lumps of bamboo. They were using
5% tapioca flour as a binder and baking the briquettes in gas ovens
(something which would not be competitive in East Africa where lumpwood
charcoal is very cheap). The main market for the Lampang charcoal was an NGO
consortium supplying fuel to Burmese refugees. They were buying around $2
million worth per annum at that time!

I have a couple of photos of the bamboo carbonisation (140 & 180 kb) if
anyone wants to see them. Let me know and I can email.

By way of an update on this story, I was contacted in 2001 by a guy living
in Lampang called Jan Mrskos of ENHOLCO THAILAND (enholco@cscoms.com). From
the sound of it, the briquetting factories may have closed down. Here's what
he told me:

"I have been living in Lampang for more than 10 years, coming here as a
consultant for a local power plant and later staying on my own. The factory
what I am running now for wooden kitchenware was run before for production
of bamboo chopsticks. That time the huge bamboo waste was not so easy to
make use of. i.e, nobody from the vast surrounding was keen on it. The
burning for the charcoal in a large scale with the legal Thai wages had not
been viable, it could be done only in a small scale by villagers. As far as
I know they had run mostly on wood sawdust or surprisingly, on charcoal dust
brought in over 2,000 km from the south. One of the charcoal factory you
mentioned belongs to an older gentleman, a good friend of mine who I
incidentally yesterday was visiting. Currently, the production of both of
these charcoal factories is down to zero because of the low market."

Matthew Owen
Chardust Ltd.
Nairobi
Kenya

From psanders at ilstu.edu Wed Jul 31 05:17:39 2002
From: psanders at ilstu.edu (psanders@ilstu.edu)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Gasify the Re: Bamboo in Thailand
Message-ID: <530074336.1028121439849.JavaMail.root@mail.ilstu.edu>

Stovers,

Hi from Mozambique. I do not get to e-mail very often.

Among my other jobs, I am working on the Juntos gasifier, and I can say that the bamboo joints sound like wonderful source of biomass fuel for the small gasifiers. We would use the gases that are otherwise wasted, and still have the charcoal left over for whatever uses.

I will be at the HEDON conference on 27 - 28 August in Johannesburg, and will be demo-ing Juntos stoves and working up projects. Now I need to find some bamboo and try to use it as fuel !!!!

Ask Grant about the HEDON conference plans if you have not seen them yet.

Paul (Anderson)

>In Lampang in central Thailand there are 2 outfits making charcoal
>briquettes from bamboo waste. Or at least there were when I visited in 1999.
>The waste came from cottage industries making chopsticks and toothpicks. All
>the jointed sections of the bamboo used to be thrown away, but two
>briquetting companies were instead getting the farmers to carbonise this
>material and bring it to their factories. They paid the farmers cash by the
>kg.
>
>The farmers used a rather rudimentary carbonisation system which was in fact
>nothing more than very large open cylinders into which the bamboo pieces
>were heaped and then lit. This led to low conversion efficiencies and high
>ash content, as well as some poorly burned lumps of bamboo. They were using
>5% tapioca flour as a binder and baking the briquettes in gas ovens
>(something which would not be competitive in East Africa where lumpwood
>charcoal is very cheap). The main market for the Lampang charcoal was an NGO
>consortium supplying fuel to Burmese refugees. They were buying around $2
>million worth per annum at that time!
>
>I have a couple of photos of the bamboo carbonisation (140 & 180 kb) if
>anyone wants to see them. Let me know and I can email.
>
>By way of an update on this story, I was contacted in 2001 by a guy living
>in Lampang called Jan Mrskos of ENHOLCO THAILAND (enholco@cscoms.com). From
>the sound of it, the briquetting factories may have closed down. Here's what
>he told me:
>
>"I have been living in Lampang for more than 10 years, coming here as a
>consultant for a local power plant and later staying on my own. The factory
>what I am running now for wooden kitchenware was run before for production
>of bamboo chopsticks. That time the huge bamboo waste was not so easy to
>make use of. i.e, nobody from the vast surrounding was keen on it. The
>burning for the charcoal in a large scale with the legal Thai wages had not
>been viable, it could be done only in a small scale by villagers. As far as
>I know they had run mostly on wood sawdust or surprisingly, on charcoal dust
>brought in over 2,000 km from the south. One of the charcoal factory you
>mentioned belongs to an older gentleman, a good friend of mine who I
>incidentally yesterday was visiting. Currently, the production of both of
>these charcoal factories is down to zero because of the low market."
>
>Matthew Owen
>Chardust Ltd.
>Nairobi
>Kenya
>
>
>-
>Stoves List Archives and Website:
>http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/200204/
>http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>>
>Stoves List Moderators:
>Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
>Elsen L. Karstad, elk@wananchi.com www.chardust.com
>>
>List-Post: <mailto:stoves@crest.org>
>List-Help: <mailto:stoves-help@crest.org>
>List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>
>List-Subscribe: <mailto:stoves-subscribe@crest.org>
>>
>Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
>-
>Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
>http://www.bioenergy2002.org
>http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1010424940_7.html Bioenergy
>http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975339_7.html Gasification
>http://www.crest.org/articles/static/1/1011975672_7.html Carbon
>>
>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>>http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Chambers/Chambers.htm
>
>

From psanders at ilstu.edu Wed Jul 31 05:44:20 2002
From: psanders at ilstu.edu (psanders@ilstu.edu)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Fw: Banboo
Message-ID: <529948450.1028123041529.JavaMail.root@mail.ilstu.edu>

Stovers,

Alex's info at the site listed below is EXCELLENT and stimulating. It gave me several suggestions that I will try with the Juntos gasifiers.

I have made only one "bucket-size" gasifier back in Illinois, and it worked very well with junk biomass. I will be making some larger ones (like 20 liter cans) but not as large as Alex made.

My smallest was a typical "soup can". worked, but VERY susceptible to air currents that disrupted the small flame.

Alex, are you coming to the Johannesburg meeting?

Paul

>Stovers (cc Alex, Crispin, and A.D.):
>> I spent a couple of days in Phaltan right after the conference, so as to
>demonstrate the
>> top-down charcoal maker. So we built an oil drum model and used bamboo as
>fuel.
>> An account with pictures is at the crest/stoves website.
>> http://crest.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/English/phaltan.htm

From ronallarson at qwest.net Wed Jul 31 06:47:26 2002
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:37:57 2004
Subject: Invitation to show material at WSSD
Message-ID: <004201c238a1$08601580$2275fea9@w5k6v8>

Stovers:

A friend with a strong interest
in development has invited the stoves group, through me, to have a display at
the World Summit on Sustainable Development (WSSD) between about Aug. 26 and
Sept 4 - in Johannesburg. A few on the list have already indicated an
ability to supply something.

You can see this friend's
orientation by going to <A
href="http://www.greenstar.org">www.greenstar.org. His name is
Charlie Gay - former head of the US National Renewable Energy Laboratory
(NREL) and several large PV firms.

Anyone wishing to be
included with a novel stove or fuel possibility is asked to write me
off-line. I can't show everything, and respondents will have to cover
getting the material to Johannesburg themselves and probably will get little
back (low funding for that). But the number of potential viewers of your
work could be huge. Photos, handouts, etc. welcome - as well as
hardware.

Anyone?

Ron

BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

July 2002 Biomass Cooking Stoves Archive