October 2003 Gasification Archive

For more information to help people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions, please see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Thu Oct 9 15:16:10 2003
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:34 2004
Subject: Peru 2 - Counterflow heat exchange in cooking
Message-ID: <THU.9.OCT.2003.131610.0600.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Stovers: In #1 I said:
"Part B. I had two other stove thoughts as I toured Peru, which I have placed in separate messages to facilitate responses."

The first was about the use there in many locations of a "horno" in many places for the baking of bread and roasting of meats (typically guinea pigs that are called "cuy" (pronounced cooey) and are considered a national delicacy - with every home we went to having dozens running around or penned up). These are hemispheres of about 1 to 2 meter diameter with a single door in the front of maybe 30-40 cm width and 50% taller. I saw one with an upper hole, but most smoke was even then coming out the single front opening. There were many pizzerias in all the towns we visited - and all used this system for pizza cooking (taking about 10 minutes). Top browning was achieved with extra light fuel added to give a bright flame crossing over the pizza as air circulation traveled first low through the bottom part of the opening across almost a diameter - and then back above the incoming air around a good part of a semi-circumference. All the restaurants had this horno out in full view and all had what seemed to be an excellent passive vent system and several meters (visible) of chimney. The residential systems had neither. The wall thickness was large - and I am guessing was almost always adobe bricks and maybe fired bricks. I saw some nice tile floors.

In general I saw only occasional signs of excessive indoor smoke. Mostly there was good enough ventilation. But my impression was that they were heating up a lot of material to achieve not much cooking.

The new idea that came to mind was to employ a system of cooking on and between insulated "stone" disks. A few years ago, I mentioned seeing such a system at a fancy restaurant - where I braised (at the dining table) directly on a very hot stone "puck" (maybe highly polished marble?). Although getting progressively slower, cooking was possible at the dining table even after 1/2 hour.

The new idea (if new) is that I can see these pucks being heated inside a "chimney" (a heat exchanger) - sort of like the vertical brick kiln discussion a few weeks ago. This "counterflow" heat exchange system could achieve quite high efficiency as the coolest gases are heating up the coolest "pucks" (and vice versa) - with new pucks added at the highest point in the chimney/heat exchanger. I don't know if this was done at the fancy restaurant.

This also raises the question if one could extend this counter-flow concept to other cooking situations. Maybe insert a very hot rock into a cooking vessel already situated in a"haybox" when cooking rice, beans. corn, potatoes? (will need some experimentation to get right size rock and the right starting temperature).

Anybody ever see such? Hope someone with a convenient chimney will give it a try - and see how much efficiency improvement we can get.

Ron

Ps - wood (split and maybe 1/2 meter long) was available in at least one location for 5 "Soles" ($1.50) per quintal - which I think is 100 kg. Can anyone confirm the last value?

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Thu Oct 9 15:33:20 2003
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:34 2004
Subject: Peru 3 - Pedestal-based stoves?
Message-ID: <THU.9.OCT.2003.133320.0600.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Stovers: This is the third and last part of my report on stove ideas coming out of the trip to Peru.'

The second idea related to seeing a small clay cookpot that had come out of an Incan ceremonial burial pit. This had a single central support that avoided the need for the exterior 3-stones that presumably was the only ancient alternative. I never saw anything similar that was modern, nor do I ever recall seeing a "pedestal geometry" like this anywhere else in the world. Not a good recommendation for something for us to explore - but the Incan culture at that time was perhaps leading the world in many forms of engineering (roads, buildings, retaining walls, agriculture, aqueducts, astronomical observations, some metal working, and perhaps a unique form of writing (knots on strings) we haven't yet deciphered. Having thought through and experimented with cooking efficiencies is not out of the realm of possibilities. The obvious down-side is a lack of stability and relative fragility.

So I tried to think through how I would exploit a central pedestal and I will try some experiments sometime (but hope others will beat me to it). I am thinking that this pedestal could be coupled with a conical reflective metal fuel holder with a single "small" hole at the low point in the cone. The central pedestal allows the entry wood to drop down (probably best from three sides) below the pot and through the cylindrical convection-enhancing shield. Three sticks that come together only near the cone apex will hopefully prevent flames from climbing up each stick and exiting through the wood entry ports.
The fact that there is only one central "small" hole should greatly enhance combustion at that point
I am thinking that the fuel-chamber cone could be supported by a second lower cylindrical support which also would enable preheating of the "primary" air entering at the cone apex. One thereby creates a "free" clean oven that might offer some baking or warming advantages.
A cone of 45 degree half angle should redirect much of the heat upwards toward the pot bottom - and we haven't heard anything I can recall on the value of a conical combustion chamber to achieve that desired reflection/re-radiation effect.
The central "pedestal" hopefully achieves some advantage by conducting heat to the pot - with the support "plate" also preventing the pot bottom from getting so sooty (hopefully getting complete combustion before the flames reach to sides of the pot.. I am thinking of three pieces of bent and welded rebar providing this central pedestal and create easily a small "grate". Note this central support will remove some of the conductive heat loss associated with support from the outside.
I know this is a pretty vague description of what might be a lousy idea - but maybe someone can comment on whether they have ever seen anything similar - and whether it had any advantages - and thereby save me some time.

I am not claiming anything about pyrolysis, but think it might be possible to top light this geometry and obtain charcoal - instead of working towards full combustion. The conical geometry would seem to mean a time-varying Power - eliminating a major advantage (uniform and controllable power level over time) of the batch charcoal-maker. But it may be that the progressively smaller cross-section of the downward moving pyrolysis front is counteracted by the increasing velocity of the upward flowing primary air (as the total volume air must be conserved). Maybe there is some optimum cone angle that could give uniform but still controllable power. The geometry I am trying to describe would allow adding new fuel without removing the cook pot to do so. Whether the necessary secondary air could come through the same wood entry ports (and allow dual use as a regular bottom lit design and as a top-lit charcoal-maker) is not clear.

This could be called a "Juanita" design (unless others have seen it with a different name) - as that was the name of the famous Incan sacrifice victim whose well-preserved remains I visited a few weeks ago - and which has led to this conceptual design .

Any reactions or observations?

Ron

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Thu Oct 9 15:33:39 2003
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:34 2004
Subject: Peru 1 - report on visit to ARDA (Demetrio Rojas)
Message-ID: <THU.9.OCT.2003.133339.0600.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Stovers:

Just back from my vacation trip.

I had a nice 4-hour visit on Monday with Sr.Demetrio Rojas Quispe and his boss Sr. Juan Lara Huatuco - both of the Cusco Office of the organization ARDA-Peru (Adventist Development and Relief Agency). Excellent translation help was fortunately provided by visiting ARDA staff accountant Joel Echevarria Miranda from the Lima office of ARDA. Demetrio has designed an improved low-cost, owner-built, high-mass two-hole stove with chimney and two different pre-fabricated metal versions of same (@$40 and $50). He has been working with Richard Stanley also on the biomass briquette production scheme - but in Peru using a press to achieve higher densities.

This work has been on-going for 3 years, with about 240 stoves installed. I was able to visit the only one near Cusco - and Demetrio gave a brief demonstration there of the briquette combustion. He reports that they can be about half of the cost of wood in those parts of Peru where wood is scarce - and I guess most of the appropriate locations are not near Cusco (which is high enough to cause serious slow down for people like me who come from half the altitude).

I gather ARDA (260 employees throughout Peru) is one of the four major development organizations in Peru, with a 30-year history here. None of the other majors are doing stove work and Demetrio is the only ARDA employee in both Peru and South America doing stove work. He is a biologist whose emphasis is on ecology.

This is also to ask Tom Miles to contact Demetrio to obtain some photographs of the ARDA adobe stove and the briquettes for the REPP archives.

I failed to ask about details of tests on efficiency etc. ARDA has received some assistance from the Engineering part of a national University located in Cusco - so something may be available. I did learn that there has been one health-oriented stove study - and the ARDA work is intended for both that purpose and for broader environmental reasons. I failed to ask about which of many ARDA funders might have funded these particular stove and briquette projects - but perhaps Richard Stanley (who helped set up my visit) can add more on this work.

I did not choose to ask about the loss of efficiency with a high mass adobe stove as I was told that there was a favorable customer reaction to having warm water after a return - perhaps from the fields. Since this is a very high altitude region (this particular village even higher than Cusco), then maybe a high mass stove might be a good choice. There was an excellent air control system - with a possible complete closure of both the front entry port (2 sliding doors) and the chimney (sliding plate also). The 2-meter (looked larger) chimney was said to cost about 22 soles ($6.25).

The briquettes were very strong (demonstrated by bouncing intentionally on the floor) - but lighter than I thought might be achieved with mechanical pressure. Lighting went quite well (from bottom) with at first 3 briquettes, using eucalyptus leaves and straw as starter "tinder". The first and strongest flames were certainly from the interior hole - and not from the outer circumference. There was about a 2.5 cm hole in the briquettes, which were very uniform and of about equal height and diameter - at about 7 or 8 cm. Demetrio is beginning to develop a briquette with 4 to 6 holes - to increase the power level. At their quite large Cusco compound, I also saw several briquettes that were up to twice as tall as wide. The briquettes seemed to completely pyrolyze (little white ash) before being much more slowly being consumed in their "charcoal" form.

I believe Demetrio and ARDA are deserving of additional support for persons or organizations looking for a new country to work in. I found Peruvians in all cases to be very friendly and only wish that I spoke better Spanish so as to have given a better report. Whether or not the ARDA work is entirely in the right direction I was not there long enough to say - but all looked quite professional.

In general this list has not had much good to say about high-mass stoves - so I would welcome a review of when and where they might be considered most appropriate. I believe they have heat retention that may be advantageous in some cooler climates - but wonder if anyone has done a thorough study on this topic?

Part B. I had two other stove thoughts as I toured Peru, which I have placed in separate messages to facilitate responses.

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Fri Oct 10 09:23:33 2003
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:34 2004
Subject: Peru 2
Message-ID: <FRI.10.OCT.2003.072333.0600.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Hi Pat (cc stoves)

I hope you don't mind my sending this reply on to the full list - as I
want to pursue your new information more completely with all. See below.

----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Manley <jpmanley@midcoast.com>
To: Ron Larson <ronallarson@QWEST.NET>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] Peru 2

> Hi Ron
> Welcome home!
> Years ago, when I was in Finland studying the design and construction of
> masonry (high mass) heaters, I spent 3 or 4 days as a guest of a company
> that owns a soapstone quarry in north eastern Finland. They use the
> soapstone to build masonry heaters, which are the preferred method of
> burning wood all over Finland.

RWL: Can you give us some idea of the economics of soapstone? It
looks like an expensive product - but if used mainly for its thermal
properties - maybe it is cheaper than dense bricks? Can it be used
(cost-effectively) here in
the US?

> Regarding the stone plates you experienced in Peru, when I was at the
> quarry we used soapstone plates 15mm thick to cook our own individual meal
> and eat off it as well. Also popular are 30mm thick rectangular
soapstones
> that sit on the middle of the table, and everyone would take their food
off
> of it to eat when it was done to their liking. Both the plate and the
> griddle sat on a fitted wooden plate.

RWL: Can you give some more on the lateral dimensions of both of above?
But mostly I am interested in how they are heated before coming to the
dining table (in Finland and by yourself). Here in the US we could put in
an oven and get a predetermined temperature (and they will come to the table
clean), but when cooking with wood it is not obvious to me what the best
heat-up
method would be. Could a plate be simply placed on a gas burner or an
electric element? How then would one know the right temperature to bring to
the table?

Also, after cooking at the table mine was a little messy - but looked
like it could be cleaned fairly well. Is this a plus or a minus for this
form
of cooking?

I also would like your thoughts on the use of putting these in a sloping
chimney to capture the benefits of counter flow heat exchange. Would this
be possible in the smoke - or would there need to be a "two-chambered"
chimney?

> I still have a few plates I brought home with me, and use then now and
then
> for seafood.
> I don't know if Peru has soapstone deposits, but Brazil has abundant
> supplies, and exports their soapstone, which does look like green marble.
> Keep up the good work!
> Pat
>

RWL: Pat - thanks very much for this new information.

My comments on this technique come from an interest more in world-wide
efficiency improvements - and not from Peru alone. But there were more of
these "hornos" than other places I have been

But picking up on "Peru" - I can say we enjoyed the food very much -
but were always surprised at the way food appeared for our traveling group
of 7 - always one at a time and spread out over a long period of time -
almost never served all at once. With
a system of cooking on stones brought to the table, perhaps everyone
could get started eating both more quickly and at the same time (depending
on the means of heating
the stones). This "stone" approach does seem more appropriate to cold
climates and to restaurants - but maybe it should go further. It certainly
isn't in wide use - and maybe shouldn't be. Hope to hear from others who
may have seen this in use.

Ron

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Mon Oct 13 12:53:38 2003
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:34 2004
Subject: Peru 2 - Counterflow heat exchange in cooking
Message-ID: <MON.13.OCT.2003.105338.0600.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Sobre:

Thanks for the update. Sorry that you too haven't gotten yet completely
to all-metric. 100 kg sounded like too heavy a load for a convenient
measure. What is your price in different parts of Bolivia?

I should have listed the Peruvian quintal price not at US$1.50 - but
rather at $1.45. This makes the price in parts of Peru about 3.2 US cents
per kilo.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: Sobre la Roca: Energ?a Solar para el Desarrollo <solar1@zuper.net>
To: Ron Larson <ronallarson@qwest.net>; <STOVES@listserv.repp.org>
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] Peru 2 - Counterflow heat exchange in cooking

> On 10/9/03 15:16, "Ron Larson" <ronallarson@QWEST.NET> wrote:
>
> > Stovers: In #1 I said:
> >
> >
> > Ps - wood (split and maybe 1/2 meter long) was available in at least one
> > location for 5 "Soles" ($1.50) per quintal - which I think is 100 kg.
Can
> > anyone confirm the last value?
> >
> Ron, here in Bolivia 4 arobas (25 pounds) = 1 quintal (100 pounds)
> --
> "Most people aim at nothing in life. . .and hit it with amazing accuracy."
>
> David Whitfield
> Director
> Sobre la Roca
> P.O. Box 4723
> La Paz Bolivia South America
> 591-2-2414882 office 591 715 16356 cellular
>
> solar1@zuper.net
> aguaviva@zuper.net
> dewv@yahoo.com
>
> http://www.solarcooking.org/media/broadcast/whitfield/bio-whitfield.htm
>
>
> http://www.thehungersite.com
>
>
>

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Mon Oct 13 18:53:35 2003
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:34 2004
Subject: Peru 2 - Counterflow heat exchange in cooking
Message-ID: <MON.13.OCT.2003.165335.0600.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Roberto et al:

Here is a little more on the subject of a Quintal - taken from the "unc"
site given below:

quintal (q) [1]
a traditional unit of weight in France, Portugal, and Spain. Quintal is also
the generic name for a historic unit used in commerce throughout Europe and
the Arab world for more than 2000 years. The unit began as the Latin
centenarius, meaning "comprised of 100" because it was equal to 100 Roman
pounds. The centenarius passed into Arabic as the cantar or qintar and then
returned to Europe through Arab traders in the form quintal. The German
zentner and English hundredweight are familiar forms of this same unit in
northern Europe. The traditional French quintal equaled 100 livres (48.95
kilograms or 107.9 pounds), but today the word "quintal" in France usually
means a larger metric unit (see next entry). The Spanish quintal is 100
libras (about 46 kilograms or 101 pounds). The Portuguese quintal is larger;
it is equal to 128 libras (about 129.5 pounds or 58.75 kilograms). "Kwintal"
is the English pronunciation given in standard English dictionaries, but
"kintal" (closer to the Spanish pronunciation) and "kantal" (closer to the
French) are also used.

quintal (q) [2]
a common metric unit of mass equal to 100 kilograms or approximately
220.4623 pounds. Notice that the metric ton is roughly equal to its
non-metric predecessors, but the metric quintal is about twice the size of
the traditional quintal.

Hence I am confused - and this is to ask Demetrio for some help on the
definition of a Peruvian quintal. (I have heard from Demetrio and he will
have some more data for us in a few more weeks..)

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: Roberto Escard? <robertoescardo@ARNET.COM.AR>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Peru 2 - Counterflow heat exchange in cooking

> ---------------------- Information from the mail
header -----------------------
> Sender: The Stoves Discussion List <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Poster: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Roberto_Escard=F3?=
<robertoescardo@ARNET.COM.AR>
> Subject: Re: Peru 2 - Counterflow heat exchange in cooking
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> How much does a quintal weigths?
> In Argentina, used mostly for grains, is 100 kg, but.in Per? is probably
> the spanish "metrified" , I guess 50 kg and not 46.
> Many ancient units are "metrified" in latin America, ex: a "legua" is just
5
> kilometers and not 4.2 as the "original" spanish.
> A very nice place about units: http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/
> Regards
> Roberto.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sobre la Roca: Energ?a Solar para el Desarrollo" <solar1@ZUPER.NET>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 10:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [STOVES] Peru 2 - Counterflow heat exchange in cooking
>
>
> > On 10/9/03 15:16, "Ron Larson" <ronallarson@QWEST.NET> wrote:
> >
> > > Stovers: In #1 I said:
> > >
> > >
> > > Ps - wood (split and maybe 1/2 meter long) was available in at least
one
> > > location for 5 "Soles" ($1.50) per quintal - which I think is 100 kg.
> Can
> > > anyone confirm the last value?
> > >
> > Ron, here in Bolivia 4 arobas (25 pounds) = 1 quintal (100 pounds)
> > --
> > "Most people aim at nothing in life. . .and hit it with amazing
accuracy."
> >
> > David Whitfield
> > Director
> > Sobre la Roca
> > P.O. Box 4723
> > La Paz Bolivia South America
> > 591-2-2414882 office 591 715 16356 cellular
> >
> > solar1@zuper.net
> > aguaviva@zuper.net
> > dewv@yahoo.com
> >
> > http://www.solarcooking.org/media/broadcast/whitfield/bio-whitfield.htm
> >
> >
> > http://www.thehungersite.com
>

From andrew.heggie at DTN.NTL.COM Wed Oct 1 16:27:21 2003
From: andrew.heggie at DTN.NTL.COM (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: Early TLUD (ala Tom Reed) gasifiers
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20030925164100.01abff00@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.1.OCT.2003.212721.0100.>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:04:29 -0500, Paul S. Anderson wrote:

>But I think there was also some units built by Alex English and
>by Andrew Heggie, and

Mine were only to try the concept after I was introduced to it when
this list started, my only different approaches were attempts to
induce secondary air flow and shorten flame height, largely using
small electric blowers with some less than successful attempts using a
flash boiler.

I still feel a fanned toplit, down burning offers a good approach to
small scale coal burning.

AJH

From andrew.heggie at DTN.NTL.COM Wed Oct 1 16:27:27 2003
From: andrew.heggie at DTN.NTL.COM (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: Small rotary chopper for larger chips
In-Reply-To: <006901c3834b$12236040$2a47fea9@md>
Message-ID: <WED.1.OCT.2003.212727.0100.>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:01:17 +0200, Crispin wrote:

>Dear Friends
>
>What is the energy content of butane (MJ/Kg)?

A bit late but I have just received a spate of stoves mail.

I have lhv 45.5 MJ/kg, hhv 49.4 MJ/kg

AJH

From lanny at ROMAN.NET Wed Oct 1 21:30:34 2003
From: lanny at ROMAN.NET (Lanny Henson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: See Lanny's 2 Pot/Oven stove
Message-ID: <WED.1.OCT.2003.213034.0400.LANNY@ROMAN.NET>

Dear Stove Friends,
Here is the link for the photos of the two pot with oven Rocket stove ( the
yet to be named stove) There will be more details after testing by Dean
Still.
http://www.lanny.us/hssa.html
Lanny

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dean Still <dstill@epud.net>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 2:09 AM
> Subject: [STOVES] See Lanny's 2 Pot/Oven stove
>
>
> > Dear Friends,
> >
> > Bruce Stahlburg asks to see the photos of Lanny's stove before Tom
returns
> > from Russia...See the photos: hssa.jpg ; hss06 ,07,08,15,16,17,18,19,20
> and
> > hss21.jpg
> > > >> >Just go to the link and change the number and go to the other
> photos.
> > > >> >http://www.lanny.us/hssa.jpg
> > > >> >http://www.lanny.us/hss06.jpg
> >
> > All Best,
> >
> > Dean
> >
>

From pverhaart at OPTUSNET.COM.AU Thu Oct 2 07:14:08 2003
From: pverhaart at OPTUSNET.COM.AU (Peter Verhaart)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: Small rotary chopper for larger chips
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20030925174923.00a09980@btlmail.btl.net>
Message-ID: <THU.2.OCT.2003.211408.1000.PVERHAART@OPTUSNET.COM.AU>

At 17:54 25/09/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>At 07:00 AM 9/25/2003 -0600, tombreed wrote:
> >Dear Stovers:
> >
> >Further thoughts on size reduction.
> >
> >1) Peter: Will a machete, designed to cut wet cane, easily cut dry wooden
> >sticks? Don't they need to be well supported to make inch length pieces?
> >
>
>Actually -- the machete designed specifically for cutting cane is not
>popular here. They use only the more general purpose one.
>
>In the actual practice of chopping wood with a machete -- the blade is
>introduced at a slight angle -- never directly 90 deg. to the fiber line --
>say at least 15 deg -- one side or the other. It is quite tricky. And takes
>years of practice to master.
>
>Still -- it is a given in the villages here that every male over the age of
>12 (at least) can -- and many woman as well.
>
>Further -- if you place a stick on a solid surface -- then yes -- a machete
>can chop clean through surprisingly thick hard wood -- even using a direct
>blow.
>
>A solid surface being such as a large block of wood -- a splitting block if
>you will.
>
>
> >2) Much of the wood in the world occurs as very large chunks and so is
> >suitable for 3 stone stoves. However, a lot of biomass occurs as small
> >pieces - nut hulls, acorns, seeds, cobs, ... and so is only suitable for
> >certain stoves. Nice to have this option.
> >
> >One of the nicest "natural pellets" I have come across is the Eucalyptus
> >nut. They burn very poorly in most stoves, and give off an oily, astringent
> >smoke. However, they are quite dense and burn beautifully in our WoodGas
> >Stoves. A few trees would supply a families cooking needs for year. There
> >are many other small biomass forms that have no use in conventional cooking
> >and would be great for WoodGas stoves.
>
>Good point Tom!!
>
>We have a very common palm nut tree here -- cohune palm -- which is a
>simply incredible source of energy rich fuel pellets.
>
>A few of those can supply cooking oil and cooking fuel for any family easily.
>
>But they do not burn well in a 3 stone design.
>
>Now -- there is a real project -- designing the stove for this fuel.
>
>Mother natures absolutely best "pellet" --
>
>I have all kinds of specs on this from a biomass power plant study that was
>supposed to be built using just this fuel. It so closely approximates coal.
>
>Comes in a uniform size -- and is dry -- plus rich in vegetable oil -- what
>more can one ask for??
>
>I wonder if normal palm tree nuts could not be used for these same purposes??
>
>Peter

Try a downdraft or J-stove. My barbecue burns palm nuts (Cocos plumosa)
cleanly with no smoke or smell.

Peter Verhaart

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Thu Oct 2 08:28:48 2003
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: Butane etc
Message-ID: <THU.2.OCT.2003.142848.0200.CRISPIN@NEWDAWN.SZ>

Dear Peter and others:

Can we have a reasonably conprehensive list of all known cooking fuels and
their energy content per kg?

That would allow to me calcualte cost implications when comparing cooking
devices.

Thanks
Crispin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Verhaart" <pverhaart@optusnet.com.au>

At 11:01 25/09/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>What is the energy content of butane (MJ/Kg)?
>
About 46 MJ/kg, if memory serves.

Peter Verhaart

From tombreed at COMCAST.NET Sun Oct 5 00:12:35 2003
From: tombreed at COMCAST.NET (tombreed)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: Small rotary chopper for larger chips
Message-ID: <SAT.4.OCT.2003.221235.0600.TOMBREED@COMCAST.NET>

Dear Nandu:

Thanks for clarifying "the facts of life" for the rest of us.

The morality of stealing from the government is justified under some forms
of socialism, communism. But the government is us in a democracy. I
suppose it will be a long time before our morality gets all this
straightened out.

Patience.....

TOM REED

Subject: Re: [STOVES] Small rotary chopper for larger chips

> Peter made a reference to the fact that the rural Indians were rich.
> In fact they are so rich that they use electricity for cooking their
> meals. In the state of Maharashtra, where I reside, every single
> village is connected to the grid. Because the electricity is supplied
> through naked wires strung on overhead poles, anybody can tap the
> electricity using a metal hook attached to the end of a bamboo pole, and
> a wire (insulated) leading from the hook to the house. One can buy in
> any rural electric shop cheap electric stoves (naked coils of the
> heating element fitted into a ceramic plate) and copper hooks attached
> to lengths of wire. The shopkeeper would even teach you, how to fit the
> hook on a bamboo pole and how to use this contraption for stealing
> electricity from the public grid. Stealing electricity is not a
> cognisable offence (i.e. the police would not interfere unless the owner
> files an official complaint). The person appointed by the Government of
> Maharashtra to maintain the electric line is called the linesman. It is
> his duty to report the theft, but he would be the last person to do so,
> because he would then not be able to collect bribes from the thieves.
> A.D.Karve
>
> >>
> >>
> >
>

From K.Prasad at TUE.NL Tue Oct 7 06:33:11 2003
From: K.Prasad at TUE.NL (Prasad, K.)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: "Combustor", Gasifier" or Pyrolyser"
Message-ID: <TUE.7.OCT.2003.123311.0200.K.PRASAD@TUE.NL>

Dear Tom

I haven't participated in the list for nearly two years. It might come as a
surprise to you and perhaps Ron.

I am frankly baffled by this discussion. Sticking to the combustion of wood,
I thought that it occurs in the following order. (i) first the moisture in
the wood is driven out (<100C); (ii) then pyrolysis occcurs (say <500C); and
(iii) combustion follows (around 1000C or more). What happens between
pyrolysis and combustion ( say between 500C and 1000C) is of not much
interest to the person who is interested in burning wood to produce heat
with minimum or no "smoke". Gasificationis something else; since my
knowledge on gasification is way below Mukunda's or yours, I will restrict
myself to the innocuous statement that it is something that is designed to
occur between 500 and 1000C.

What is wrong with this thinking or am I out of date ( if you want
"fossilized)?

I sure won't mind being enlightened.

Yours
Prasad

-----Original Message-----
From: tombreed [mailto:tombreed@COMCAST.NET]
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 7:29 AM
To: STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
Subject: [STOVES] "Combustor", Gasifier" or Pyrolyser"

All Stovers (and gasification):

The premier biomass thermal conversion lab in India is the Pyrolysis,
Gasification, Combustion, the PGC lab at IISC, Bangalore of Prof. Mukunda.
You can't do gasification of solid fuels without initial pyrolysis; you
can't do combustion without initial gasification. So the three are sister
technologies, and anyone interested in one should be interested in all
three.

Yesterday I gave a number of reason to call stoves that burn the gas
separately from the pyrolysis stage "gasifiers". Here are two more.

Ron says below that most people can recognize "pyrolyser" from its roots.
OK, maybe. However, by the same token they will recognize "gasifier" from
its roots. While many people might be able to derive "pyrolyser", the word
has no association with cooking. The billions of people now burning methane
and propane at high cost will be led to burning WoodGas through association
of the words.

AND its roots are deeply into modern technology where every city had
(usually coal) gasifiers supplying city gas, often by a process of pyrolysis
to make coke as a co-product. So we are doing the same thing at a smaller
scale, and the charcoal is a co-product while the majority product is the
gas.

And in the case of our stoves, the PURPOSE of the stove is to make a gas for
CLEAN combustion because it is very difficult to simultaneously burn the
gas/vapors and the charcoal. If you choose to stop the process half way
through and take the charcoal as a by-product, fine, but the PURPOSE is
still "cooking with gas".

Finally, note that we don't have a "Pyrolysis" section here at REPP, but we
do have a "Gasification" section, so that newcomers will find information on
the processes involved.
~~~~~~~~
So, I hope that I can get Ron Larson to at least use the names "gasifier"
and "pyrolyser" together.
Most gasifiers need to have their names modified, as in "tar burning, char
making gasifier" = "updraft gasifier", .... etc. so I'd recommend the
longer name top be "PYROLYSIS GASIFIER" if it will make Ron happy and
terminate this interminable discussion.

Onward to better "cooking with gas",

TOM REED (Gasification list moderator)

Yours truly,

Dr. Thomas Reed
tombreed@comcast.com
www.woodgas.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Larson" <ronallarson@QWEST.NET>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] paraffin

> Stovers:
>
> Today, Paul Anderson noted that I had said:
> >
> > > 1. I strongly urge not calling any such device a "gasifier" - but
> > > rather call it a "pyrolyzer" - as the word "gasifier" typically
means
> > > striving for minimum charcoal production.
> >
> and Paul says:
> >
> > A. When speaking to the general citizen (and the poorly educated in
some
> > communities), the word "pyrolysis" and "pyrolyzer" are not well
> > understood. A "gasifier" is much more easily understood.
>
> RWL: I doubt this. Almost every culture will translate "pyrolysis"
as
> "charcoal making" (and get the concept right away) - and you will find
that
> I usually use this term ("charcoal-making" - not "pyrolysis") when talking
> about a top-lit stove. On this list, I think it safe to talk about
> pyrolysis and the distinction between it and gasification.
>
> If you use "gasifier", I think the translation is apt to come out as
> something very foreign to what we are talking about. Anyone out there in
a
> position to check my claim with some group that has never seen a
"gasifier"?
>
>
> >
> > B. In my Juntos gasifier that is developing well (and will have a major
> > message within 5 weeks), developments are moving that will ALLOW (user
> > option) the burning of a much greater portion of the charcoal than was
the
> > case in the initial Reed - Larson IDD stoves. That would pull the name
> > back toward use of "gasifier" instead of "pyrolyzer." The people for
whom
> > A.D. Karve is producing charcoal from agro-wastes will not need to
produce
> > or use much charcoal if (a big IF that is getting smaller) they can use
> the
> > agro-wastes directly for their cooking.
>
> RWL: Note that A.D. and Crispin are asking how to make charcoal at
the
> household level - not how to consume it.
> I'm anxious to see how efficient your charcoal combustion is within
the
> original charcoal-maker. My prediction is that it will be close to zero -
> i.e. not able to keep at a boiling water temperature - the combustion of
the
> charcoal being too far from the pot. That has been the experience of
> others.
>
> Ron
>
> > C. INHO, It is still too early to lock onto one name for this
relatively
> > very new type of biomass-using stove.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> RWL: Understood your position - but think it wrong. Still think
there
> are big problems in calling a charcoal-making stove a "gasifier" - where
> minimum charcoal production seems to be a goal.
> I have no problem with having "gasifier" stoves - but much prefer that
> the name "gasifier" not be used for stoves intended to make charcoal - as
> A.D. and Crispin seem to desire.
>
> Ron

From robdeutsch at BIGPOND.COM.KH Thu Oct 9 19:42:17 2003
From: robdeutsch at BIGPOND.COM.KH (Robert Deutsch)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: A new stover
Message-ID: <FRI.10.OCT.2003.064217.0700.ROBDEUTSCH@BIGPOND.COM.KH>

Dear Stovers,

Hello from Cambodia!

I'm working with a group in Phnom Penh, Cambodia planning to
undertake remedial work at the current open rubbish tip here. While
re-profiling the
trash pile, they want to install some pipes and collect the gas from part of
the area for testing. They mainly want to measure the gas output and check
BTU's, but they have also mentioned testing charcoal production (from hard
wood blocks) in a stove made from a 55 gal. drum and using the gas as a heat
source. Apparently this has been done in Philippines. My concern is that
they want to use high quality, high cost hard wood for
the tests. I would like to test charcoal production using green coconut
husks or sugar cane bagass (both of which are found in large quantity in the
waste
stream and pose disposal problems).

I'm new to this business, so please excuse my ignorance on the subject. I
wanted to pose a few questions:

Could this low quality material be carbonized and then compressed into
briquettes? I seem to recall that
someone was making briquettes from cotton stems in Sudan... do you know how
that process works?

Is low grade material normally carbonized and then pressed into briquettes
or the other way around?

I also wanted to ask if people have experience of using an external heat
source such as landfill gas?

Does rice water work well as a binder for briquetting?

I'm a volunteer advisor with a local NGO (non-profit org.) that works with
the informal sector "waste pickers" on social and economic development
activities (check out website www.online.com.kh/users/csaro for more info).
I'm hoping that we may be able to secure some funding to run tests on
"alternative" charcoaling materials when the short-term (3 month) landfill
project is finished and they leave the gas pipe unused.

Thank you in advance for any ideas on the above,

Very best regards,

Robert Deutsch,
Advisor, Community Sanitation and Recycling Organization
Phnom Penh, CAMBODIA
(and presently member of the JICA Study Team on SWM in Phnom Penh, website
coming soon)

From koopmans at LOXINFO.CO.TH Wed Oct 8 22:23:45 2003
From: koopmans at LOXINFO.CO.TH (Auke Koopmans)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: Yuri Yudkevich
Message-ID: <THU.9.OCT.2003.092345.0700.KOOPMANS@LOXINFO.CO.TH>

Hi All,

Does anyone have a contact address for Yuri Yudkevich in Russia. I
apparently have lost his message he sent to the Stoves List after his
retirement which had his new email address.

Thanks,

Auke

From dstill at EPUD.NET Thu Oct 9 01:38:51 2003
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: Fw: [ethos] Rocket Report from Africa
Message-ID: <WED.8.OCT.2003.223851.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

Dear STOVES,

Peter Scott, Aprovecho consultant, sends the following message:

Hello, ETHOS, and other friends around the globe,

I wanted to let anyone who might be interested know that I will be posting my GTZ/ Uganda Stove report as an ftp site in a couple of days from Lesotho.

Unfortunately the site will only be up up for one day so I wanted to give people a heads up so that they could download it.

The report has lots of step by step pictures and CAD drawings of institutional stoves, bread ovens and multipot stoves. The site will be available all day Friday in North America and all Friday evening and Saturday morning in Africa and Europe. This is still a draft report but it will give a good over view of our work.

Hope this finds everyone well. If for some reason the ftp fails, I'll let everyone know Friday morning.

Peace

Peter

From koopmans at LOXINFO.CO.TH Wed Oct 8 22:36:17 2003
From: koopmans at LOXINFO.CO.TH (Auke Koopmans)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: A new stover
Message-ID: <THU.9.OCT.2003.093617.0700.KOOPMANS@LOXINFO.CO.TH>

Dear Robert,

A good starting point in Cambodia with regard to stoves, charcoal making
etc. can be the Cambodia Fuelwood Savings project. They can be contacted at
No. 45, Street 606, Boeung Kak 2, Toul Kok, Phnom Penh. Phone (855) 23 986
891 or 986 892 Email cfsp2@online.com.kh. Kayeswar Man Sulpya, a good friend
of mine, who works for this programme may also be able to help. Sulpya, who
hails from Nepal, can be contacted at kayesulpya@online.com.kh

Best regards,

Auke Koopmans
Webmaster http://www.rwedp.org
Thailand

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Deutsch" <robdeutsch@BIGPOND.COM.KH>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:42 AM
Subject: [STOVES] A new stover

> Dear Stovers,
>
> Hello from Cambodia!
>
> I'm working with a group in Phnom Penh, Cambodia planning to
> undertake remedial work at the current open rubbish tip here. While
> re-profiling the
> trash pile, they want to install some pipes and collect the gas from part
of
> the area for testing. They mainly want to measure the gas output and
check
> BTU's, but they have also mentioned testing charcoal production (from hard
> wood blocks) in a stove made from a 55 gal. drum and using the gas as a
heat
> source. Apparently this has been done in Philippines. My concern is that
> they want to use high quality, high cost hard wood for
> the tests. I would like to test charcoal production using green coconut
> husks or sugar cane bagass (both of which are found in large quantity in
the
> waste
> stream and pose disposal problems).
>
> I'm new to this business, so please excuse my ignorance on the subject. I
> wanted to pose a few questions:
>
> Could this low quality material be carbonized and then compressed into
> briquettes? I seem to recall that
> someone was making briquettes from cotton stems in Sudan... do you know
how
> that process works?
>
> Is low grade material normally carbonized and then pressed into briquettes
> or the other way around?
>
> I also wanted to ask if people have experience of using an external heat
> source such as landfill gas?
>
> Does rice water work well as a binder for briquetting?
>
> I'm a volunteer advisor with a local NGO (non-profit org.) that works with
> the informal sector "waste pickers" on social and economic development
> activities (check out website www.online.com.kh/users/csaro for more
info).
> I'm hoping that we may be able to secure some funding to run tests on
> "alternative" charcoaling materials when the short-term (3 month) landfill
> project is finished and they leave the gas pipe unused.
>
> Thank you in advance for any ideas on the above,
>
> Very best regards,
>
> Robert Deutsch,
> Advisor, Community Sanitation and Recycling Organization
> Phnom Penh, CAMBODIA
> (and presently member of the JICA Study Team on SWM in Phnom Penh, website
> coming soon)
>

From solar1 at ZUPER.NET Wed Oct 8 19:06:24 2003
From: solar1 at ZUPER.NET (Sobre la Roca: Energ=?ISO-8859-1?B?7Q==?=a Solar para el
Desarrollo)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: Fw: [ethos] Rocket Report from Africa
In-Reply-To: <002e01c38e3a$416fd000$591e6c0c@default>
Message-ID: <WED.8.OCT.2003.230624.0000.SOLAR1@ZUPER.NET>

When can someone in South America access the site?
in a previous message, Dean Still on 10/9/03 05:38 at dstill@epud.net wrote:

> Dear STOVES,
>
> Peter Scott, Aprovecho consultant, sends the following message:
>
>
> Hello, ETHOS, and other friends around the globe,
>
> I wanted to let anyone who might be interested know that I will be posting my
> GTZ/ Uganda Stove report as an ftp site in a couple of days from Lesotho.
>
> Unfortunately the site will only be up up for one day so I wanted to give
> people a heads up so that they could download it.
>
> The report has lots of step by step pictures and CAD drawings of institutional
> stoves, bread ovens and multipot stoves. The site will be available all day
> Friday in North America and all Friday evening and Saturday morning in Africa
> and Europe. This is still a draft report but it will give a good over view of
> our work.
>
> Hope this finds everyone well. If for some reason the ftp fails, I'll let
> everyone know Friday morning.
>
> Peace
>
> Peter
>

--
"Most people aim at nothing in life. . .and hit it with amazing accuracy."

David Whitfield
Director
Sobre la Roca
P.O. Box 4723
La Paz Bolivia South America
591-2-2414882 office 591 715 16356 cellular

solar1@zuper.net
aguaviva@zuper.net
dewv@yahoo.com

http://www.solarcooking.org/media/broadcast/whitfield/bio-whitfield.htm
visit here to save money when you shop http://www.smartmall.biz/?754702
http://www.quickinfo247.com/86196/FCS
http://www.thehungersite.com

From aes at BITSTREAM.NET Thu Oct 9 10:39:29 2003
From: aes at BITSTREAM.NET (AES)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: A new stover
Message-ID: <THU.9.OCT.2003.093929.0500.AES@BITSTREAM.NET>

Robert,

I attended a briquetting seminar at a conference. Here is a link to the
topic.
http://www.thesustainablevillage.com/servlet/display/microenterprise/display
/30

This might give you a good start regarding briquetting. The technology
looked very promising, simple, local and a business venture. There are
other sites with a search for "Briquetting".

Good luck

Bruce

From rmiranda at INET.COM.BR Thu Oct 9 08:58:34 2003
From: rmiranda at INET.COM.BR (Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:39 2004
Subject: Fw: [ethos] Rocket Report from Africa
In-Reply-To: <002e01c38e3a$416fd000$591e6c0c@default>
Message-ID: <THU.9.OCT.2003.095834.0300.RMIRANDA@INET.COM.BR>

Peter + Dean: What is the site address?

At 10:38 p.m. 08/10/03 -0700, Dean Still wrote:
>Dear STOVES,
>
>Peter Scott, Aprovecho consultant, sends the following message:
>
>
>Hello, ETHOS, and other friends around the globe,
>
>I wanted to let anyone who might be interested know that I will be posting
>my GTZ/ Uganda Stove report as an ftp site in a couple of days from Lesotho.
>
>Unfortunately the site will only be up up for one day so I wanted to give
>people a heads up so that they could download it.
>
>The report has lots of step by step pictures and CAD drawings of
>institutional stoves, bread ovens and multipot stoves. The site will be
>available all day Friday in North America and all Friday evening and
>Saturday morning in Africa and Europe. This is still a draft report but it
>will give a good over view of our work.
>
>Hope this finds everyone well. If for some reason the ftp fails, I'll let
>everyone know Friday morning.
>
>Peace
>
>Peter

From rstanley at LEGACYFOUND.ORG Wed Oct 8 23:11:36 2003
From: rstanley at LEGACYFOUND.ORG (Richard Stanley)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: A new stover
Message-ID: <THU.9.OCT.2003.061136.0300.>

Robert,
I do not know much about capturing gas from waste dumps and would be intersted
to learn about it as there is ample application for such here and in Kenya.

What I can offer to your inquiry is the technology for creating briquettes from
low grade wastes you mentioned with or without rice water ( these briquettes
are bound through a random realignment of the natural fibers in the source
material itself: They do not require any additives for binding, other than
ordinary water. The resulting briquettes can when burned as is in the open for
ordinary cooking and heating, or in any number of new stoves (available through
the Stoves Group and otherrs) which allow one to dampen down the primary air
supply to create both useful heat and charcoal. The latter can also be
reblended into subsquent high quality briquettes or of course, used as is.

If this is of interest to you please visit our web site for information on the
technology and relevent training materials for your group.

www.legacyfound.org

Hope this helps you,

Richard Stanley
Kampala Uganda

Robert Deutsch wrote:

> Dear Stovers,
>
> Hello from Cambodia!
>
> I'm working with a group in Phnom Penh, Cambodia planning to
> undertake remedial work at the current open rubbish tip here. While
> re-profiling the
> trash pile, they want to install some pipes and collect the gas from part of
> the area for testing. They mainly want to measure the gas output and check
> BTU's, but they have also mentioned testing charcoal production (from hard
> wood blocks) in a stove made from a 55 gal. drum and using the gas as a heat
> source. Apparently this has been done in Philippines. My concern is that
> they want to use high quality, high cost hard wood for
> the tests. I would like to test charcoal production using green coconut
> husks or sugar cane bagass (both of which are found in large quantity in the
> waste
> stream and pose disposal problems).
>
> I'm new to this business, so please excuse my ignorance on the subject. I
> wanted to pose a few questions:
>
> Could this low quality material be carbonized and then compressed into
> briquettes? I seem to recall that
> someone was making briquettes from cotton stems in Sudan... do you know how
> that process works?
>
> Is low grade material normally carbonized and then pressed into briquettes
> or the other way around?
>
> I also wanted to ask if people have experience of using an external heat
> source such as landfill gas?
>
> Does rice water work well as a binder for briquetting?
>
> I'm a volunteer advisor with a local NGO (non-profit org.) that works with
> the informal sector "waste pickers" on social and economic development
> activities (check out website www.online.com.kh/users/csaro for more info).
> I'm hoping that we may be able to secure some funding to run tests on
> "alternative" charcoaling materials when the short-term (3 month) landfill
> project is finished and they leave the gas pipe unused.
>
> Thank you in advance for any ideas on the above,
>
> Very best regards,
>
> Robert Deutsch,
> Advisor, Community Sanitation and Recycling Organization
> Phnom Penh, CAMBODIA
> (and presently member of the JICA Study Team on SWM in Phnom Penh, website
> coming soon)

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Thu Oct 9 19:44:14 2003
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Yuri Yudkevich
Message-ID: <THU.9.OCT.2003.194414.0400.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:23:45 +0700, Auke Koopmans <koopmans@LOXINFO.CO.TH>
wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>Does anyone have a contact address for Yuri Yudkevich in Russia. I
>apparently have lost his message he sent to the Stoves List after his
>retirement which had his new email address.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Auke

Auke,

The email address that I have for Yuri is woodcoal@mailbox.alkor.ru

Regards,

Tom Miles

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Fri Oct 10 01:40:15 2003
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Fw: HotBag
Message-ID: <THU.9.OCT.2003.224015.0700.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

Message
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Chandler
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 1:53 PM
Subject: HotBag

To all interested parties,

I would like to bring to your attention the HotBag for cooking with retained heat. The HotBag is a neat innovation on the hay-box concept and offers the following:

Saves up to 75% of cooking fuel costs
Retains heat for 3-5 hours and longer
Stress-free cooking allows better time management
No danger of food burning or drying out.
Quality-cooked food retains its nutritional value
Portable warming drawer
Also works as cooler-bag
Ideal for camping and travel
Light-weight and washable
Priced from $10.00 in three sizes (excl. shipping)

Should you require further information, do not hesitate to contact me. I believe the HotBag is a wonderful product and for the love of our planet more people should be aware of this convenience which truly cooks food to perfection.

I look forward to hearing from you
Wendy Chandler
hotbag@mweb.co.za

From dstill at EPUD.NET Sat Oct 11 07:19:46 2003
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Peter Scott reports from Africa
Message-ID: <SAT.11.OCT.2003.041946.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

HI Everyone

So again, for those of you who are interested, the ftp site is now posted of
my report from Uganda. Go to ftp://leo.co.ls/peter and then choose Uganda
report (not the other one).

The good news is that the site will be up for the next 24 hours (maybe even
48 but don't count on it ) the bad news is that it is still big so it might
take 2 hours to download it!.

FYI we just installed 3 new institutional stoves for WFP. And we boiled 15
litres of water in about 18 minutes! We have been squeezing the gap
between the pot and the stove and it is giving up great efficiencies. Looks
like we are going to start a pilot project of 50 stoves as part of a
collaboration with WFP, UNDP, Dept of Energy, and Probec. Very exciting!

Best

Peter

From wsb at LAVA.NET Fri Oct 10 14:16:57 2003
From: wsb at LAVA.NET (Warren Bollmeier)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Peter Scott reports from Africa
In-Reply-To: <004c01c38f85$52c3eca0$be1e6c0c@default>
Message-ID: <FRI.10.OCT.2003.081657.1000.WSB@LAVA.NET>

When I tried to access the FTP site, I was asked for a User Name and Password.

Since the site did not allow me to enter anonymously, do you have a User
Name and Password that we should use?

Warren

At 04:19 AM 10/11/2003 -0700, Dean Still wrote:
>Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:19:46 -0700
>Reply-To: Dean Still <dstill@epud.net>
>Sender: The Stoves Discussion List <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
>From: Dean Still <dstill@epud.net>
>Subject: [STOVES] Peter Scott reports from Africa
>To: STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
>Comments: INPUT 66.234.10.119
>
>HI Everyone
>
>So again, for those of you who are interested, the ftp site is now posted of
>my report from Uganda. Go to ftp://leo.co.ls/peter and then choose Uganda
>report (not the other one).
>
>The good news is that the site will be up for the next 24 hours (maybe even
>48 but don't count on it ) the bad news is that it is still big so it might
>take 2 hours to download it!.
>
>FYI we just installed 3 new institutional stoves for WFP. And we boiled 15
>litres of water in about 18 minutes! We have been squeezing the gap
>between the pot and the stove and it is giving up great efficiencies. Looks
>like we are going to start a pilot project of 50 stoves as part of a
>collaboration with WFP, UNDP, Dept of Energy, and Probec. Very exciting!
>
>Best
>
>Peter

From hseaver at CYBERSHAMANIX.COM Fri Oct 10 18:36:04 2003
From: hseaver at CYBERSHAMANIX.COM (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Peter Scott reports from Africa
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031010081548.00b33310@pop.lava.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.10.OCT.2003.173604.0500.HSEAVER@CYBERSHAMANIX.COM>

I'm downloading it right now and wasn't asked for a password. I'm doing it
with a web browser, not by actually trying to ftp to the site, so if that's what
you're doing, try a browser.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 08:16:57AM -1000, Warren Bollmeier wrote:
> When I tried to access the FTP site, I was asked for a User Name and
> Password.
>
> Since the site did not allow me to enter anonymously, do you have a User
> Name and Password that we should use?
>
> Warren
>
> At 04:19 AM 10/11/2003 -0700, Dean Still wrote:
> >Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:19:46 -0700
> >Reply-To: Dean Still <dstill@epud.net>
> >Sender: The Stoves Discussion List <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> >From: Dean Still <dstill@epud.net>
> >Subject: [STOVES] Peter Scott reports from Africa
> >To: STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
> >Comments: INPUT 66.234.10.119
> >
> >HI Everyone
> >
> >So again, for those of you who are interested, the ftp site is now posted
> >of
> >my report from Uganda. Go to ftp://leo.co.ls/peter and then choose Uganda
> >report (not the other one).
> >
> >The good news is that the site will be up for the next 24 hours (maybe even
> >48 but don't count on it ) the bad news is that it is still big so it might
> >take 2 hours to download it!.
> >
> >FYI we just installed 3 new institutional stoves for WFP. And we boiled 15
> >litres of water in about 18 minutes! We have been squeezing the gap
> >between the pot and the stove and it is giving up great efficiencies. Looks
> >like we are going to start a pilot project of 50 stoves as part of a
> >collaboration with WFP, UNDP, Dept of Energy, and Probec. Very exciting!
> >
> >Best
> >
> >Peter

--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com

From hseaver at CYBERSHAMANIX.COM Fri Oct 10 19:09:13 2003
From: hseaver at CYBERSHAMANIX.COM (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Peter Scott reports from Africa
In-Reply-To: <20031010223604.GB24960@cybershamanix.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.10.OCT.2003.180913.0500.HSEAVER@CYBERSHAMANIX.COM>

Hmm, that is a pretty big file, Dean, it really needs to be broken up a
bit. Not only is it large, but the server it's on is pretty slow, I could only
get about a third my normal download speed with it. But then when I tried to
open it, it took forever and a day and finally crashed the editor totally. I
think a lot of people will find it difficult to open, unless they have a pretty
fast machine.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 05:36:04PM -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote:
> I'm downloading it right now and wasn't asked for a password. I'm doing it
> with a web browser, not by actually trying to ftp to the site, so if that's what
> you're doing, try a browser.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 08:16:57AM -1000, Warren Bollmeier wrote:
> > When I tried to access the FTP site, I was asked for a User Name and
> > Password.
> >
> > Since the site did not allow me to enter anonymously, do you have a User
> > Name and Password that we should use?
> >
> > Warren
> >
> > At 04:19 AM 10/11/2003 -0700, Dean Still wrote:
> > >Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:19:46 -0700
> > >Reply-To: Dean Still <dstill@epud.net>
> > >Sender: The Stoves Discussion List <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> > >From: Dean Still <dstill@epud.net>
> > >Subject: [STOVES] Peter Scott reports from Africa
> > >To: STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
> > >Comments: INPUT 66.234.10.119
> > >
> > >HI Everyone
> > >
> > >So again, for those of you who are interested, the ftp site is now posted
> > >of
> > >my report from Uganda. Go to ftp://leo.co.ls/peter and then choose Uganda
> > >report (not the other one).
> > >
> > >The good news is that the site will be up for the next 24 hours (maybe even
> > >48 but don't count on it ) the bad news is that it is still big so it might
> > >take 2 hours to download it!.
> > >
> > >FYI we just installed 3 new institutional stoves for WFP. And we boiled 15
> > >litres of water in about 18 minutes! We have been squeezing the gap
> > >between the pot and the stove and it is giving up great efficiencies. Looks
> > >like we are going to start a pilot project of 50 stoves as part of a
> > >collaboration with WFP, UNDP, Dept of Energy, and Probec. Very exciting!
> > >
> > >Best
> > >
> > >Peter
>
> --
> Harmon Seaver
> CyberShamanix
> http://www.cybershamanix.com

--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Fri Oct 10 19:30:34 2003
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: [ethos] Re: Uganda Report
Message-ID: <FRI.10.OCT.2003.163034.0700.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

Peter,

Great report. Thanks.

I have posted the Uganda Report as a 1.4 MB pdf file on the Stoves site at http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/

I have also made an HTML version which I will finish editing this weekend to make it easier to bring up on the screen.

Can you send me the autocad files in section 9.0 as DWG files? I'd like to make better images for the html format than I can get from the Word document.

Thanks

Tom Miles
tmiles@trmiles.com

----- Original Message -----
From: peter scott
To: jmccrack@hsph.harvard.edu
Cc: dstill@epud.net ; ethos@vrac.iastate.edu
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:39 PM
Subject: [ethos] Re: Uganda Report

Hi Everyone

Sorry. The server set up a password by accident but I just had them remove it when I heard that folks were having problems.

Hope things will proceed more smoothly from here .

Once again you can just click on ftp://leo.co.ls/peter to access the site, you dont need to go to another web site.

An the reason that Im posting it for only 24 hours , is not some web page blue light special , as Bruce suggested , but the only way that I could get the local lesotho server to post it. Although hte hype doesnt seem to hurt...

Best

Peter

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Fri Oct 10 19:38:29 2003
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Peter Scott reports from Africa
Message-ID: <FRI.10.OCT.2003.193829.0400.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

I have posted Peter's Uganda Report as a 1.4 MB pdf file on the Stoves
site at http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/

I'll post an html versionthis weekend.

Tom

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Sat Oct 11 01:45:12 2003
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: [ethos] Re: Uganda Report
Message-ID: <FRI.10.OCT.2003.224512.0700.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

Peter,

Thanks. I have a few tools that will help. Now all I need to do is find the time. :-)

Regards,

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: peter scott
To: tmiles@trmiles.com ; jmccrack@hsph.harvard.edu
Cc: dstill@epud.net ; ethos@vrac.iastate.edu ; stoves@listserv.repp.org
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ethos] Re: Uganda Report

Thanks so much Tom

I knew I could count on you to manipulate my analog -cum -digital universe so easily. Here ar e the drawings that you asked for. I hope you have better luck in processing them then i did as I couldnt seem to modify them into the word document.

I'll let everyone know about the site .

Best

Peter

>From: "Tom Miles"
>To: "peter scott" ,
>CC: "Dean Still" , ,
>Subject: Re: [ethos] Re: Uganda Report
>Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:30:34 -0700
>
>Peter,
>
>Great report. Thanks.
>
>I have posted the Uganda Report as a 1.4 MB pdf file on the Stoves site at http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>
>I have also made an HTML version which I will finish editing this weekend to make it easier to bring up on the screen.
>
>Can you send me the autocad files in section 9.0 as DWG files? I'd like to make better images for the html format than I can get from the Word document.
>
>Thanks
>
>Tom Miles
>tmiles@trmiles.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: peter scott
> To: jmccrack@hsph.harvard.edu
> Cc: dstill@epud.net ; ethos@vrac.iastate.edu
> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:39 PM
> Subject: [ethos] Re: Uganda Report
>
>
> Hi Everyone
>
> Sorry. The server set up a password by accident but I just had them remove it when I heard that folks were having problems.
>
> Hope things will proceed more smoothly from here .
>
> Once again you can just click on ftp://leo.co.ls/peter to access the site, you dont need to go to another web site.
>
> An the reason that Im posting it for only 24 hours , is not some web page blue light special , as Bruce suggested , but the only way that I could get the local lesotho server to post it. Although hte hype doesnt seem to hurt...
>
> Best
>
> Peter

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month*. Click here.
*Depending on the local service providers in your area.

From yark at UIUC.EDU Sat Oct 11 06:27:20 2003
From: yark at UIUC.EDU (Tami Bond)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: "Combustor", Gasifier" or Pyrolyser"
In-Reply-To: <17319E9CE9ECD211AE8A0008C7D94EE5F518CA@physx.phys.tue.nl>
Message-ID: <SAT.11.OCT.2003.052720.0500.YARK@UIUC.EDU>

Hi Prasad

It is nice to have your voice.

>I am frankly baffled by this discussion. Sticking to the combustion of wood,
>I thought that it occurs in the following order. (i) first the moisture in
>the wood is driven out (<100C); (ii) then pyrolysis occcurs (say <500C); and
>(iii) combustion follows (around 1000C or more).

Can you clarify WHERE these temperatures occur? It is my understanding that
1000C+ is the temperature in the gas-phase during flaming combustion (which
of course may feed back to the solid if it is close enough in space). My
understanding of the gasifying stove is that the processes are separated,
and that lower temperatures do occur at the solid, producing smoke and
products of incomplete combustion. The beauty of the gasifying stove is
that a little downstream, the PICs are consumed in a gas-phase flame
reaction (which would be >1000C), so the occurrence of lower temperatures
at an earlier point is acceptable. There are two ways to make sure you
don't emit smoke: either (1) you don't release it by making sure the whole
mix of pyrolysis/gas-phase burning (which you usually see as a chunk of
wood on fire) is hot enough, or (2) you let the wood smoke and burn
everything a bit later. If (1), you are challenged with keeping heat in and
heat-release rate sufficient; if (2), you are challenged with keeping that
downstream flame going, or the burner smokes like crazy.

Does that make sense or am I missing the point, Tom?

Tami

From tombreed at COMCAST.NET Sat Oct 11 09:41:14 2003
From: tombreed at COMCAST.NET (tombreed)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: "Combustor", Gasifier" or Pyrolyser"
Message-ID: <SAT.11.OCT.2003.074114.0600.TOMBREED@COMCAST.NET>

Dear Tami and All:

The question of the Pyrolysis, Gasification and Combustion sequence has two answers.

The Biot dimensionless number is the ratio of rate of heat delivery to rate of heat conduction inside the heated object,

Nb = (Heat transfer to object)/(conductive heat transfer inside object) = hr/k

(where h is the heat transfer coefficient (J/(cm2-K-/sec)); k is the thermal conductivity
(J/(cm2-(K/cm)-/sec)) and r is a characteristic radius of the object. (The r is required because k depends on the temperature gradient (K/cm), while h only depends on the temperature difference, K. )
~~~~~~~~~
When the Biot number is <~0.1, heat conduction makes the particle ~isothermal, and first it dries, then pyrolyses to charcoal and volatiles, then the charcoal gasifies and finally the gases burn if air is supplied. This is the sequence in low intensity pyrolysis and most fires.

When the Biot number is >1, time is required for the temperature to reach the center, so you can observe the outside surface fully charred and gasifying while the center is still moist. (This is easily visible pyrolysing dowells in a Meeker burner.)

(When 0.1<Nb < 1, go calculate!)

I have named this effect "Simultaneous Pyrolysis and Gasification", SPG, in the paper

SUPERFICIAL VELOCITY - THE KEY TO DOWNDRAFT GASIFICATION1T. B. Reeda, R. Waltb, S. Ellisc, A. Dasd, S. Deutchea The Biomass Energy Foundation, 1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401; b Community Power Corporation,Aurora, CO, c Colorado School of Mines, Golden, CO, d Original Sources, Boulder, CO, e The NationalRenewable Energy Laboratory, Golden, CO.ABSTRACTThe "superficial velocity" (hearth load) of a gasifier is the most important measure of itsperformance, controlling gas production rate, gas energy content, fuel consumption rate,power output, and char and tar production rate.The superficial velocity, SV, of a gasifier is defined as:SV = Gas Production Rate/Cross Sectional Area = (m3/s)/(m2/s) = m/sIt is easily estimated or measured by measuring gas production rate or fuel throughput andgasifier dimensions. It controls the rate at which air, then gas, passes down through agasifier. This in turn exercises a primary effect on heat transfer around each particle duringflaming pyrolysis of the volatiles, combustion of the tars and gasification of the charcoal.A low SV causes relatively slow pyrolysis conditions at around 600?C, and produces highyields of charcoal - 20-30%, large quantities of unburned tars, and a gas with highhydrocarbon content and high tar (volatile) content. A high SV causes very fast pyrolysis,producing less than 10% char-ash at 1050 C and hot gases at 1200-1400 C in the flamingpyrolysis zone. These gases then react with the remaining char-ash to yield tars typically lessthan 1000 ppm, 5-7% char-ash and a producer gas with less energy.These relationships have been investigated in a velocity controlled inverted downdraftgasifier with a 7.5 cm diameter. As the superficial velocity was varied from 0.05 m/s to0.26m/s , the gas production rate increased from 102 to 679 cm3/s, charcoal productiondecreased from 13.0% to 4.7% and tar in the gas decreased from 8330 to 300 mg/kg (ppm).At low Superficial Velocities (and low Biot numbers), the particles are heated slowly topyrolysis temperature and remain essentially isothermal. At high superficial velocities theoutside of the particle can be incandescent (> 800?C) while the center is still at roomtemperature. This permits the escaping gases to react with the charcoal, thus reducing thecharcoal yield and increasing the gas yield. We call this phenomenon "simultaneouspyrolysis and gasification", SPG and believe that it is the fundamental reason why theSuperficial Velocity controls all other aspects of gasification.In producing heat the "tars" in producer gas are a useful fuel, providing no cold surfacesintervene. The "inverted downdraft" stoves provide potentially simple, clean cooking fordeveloping countries. At low SVs they also produce charcoal. In producing electric power,tars are detrimental to engine operation, and so high SVs must be maintained to minimize tarand char production.*Presented at 4th Biomass Conference of the Americas; Oakland, CA, 8/29/99which is on my website at www.woodgas.com.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
So the INTENSITY of heating during pyrolysis plays an important role in the products.

Downdraft gasification forces the partial combustion of the pyrolysis gases to form CO and H2 to occur in the interstices between the particles, and so the heat transfer is more intense than that produce in a fluidized bed.

Comments?

Onward.......

TOM REED

Yours truly,

Dr. Thomas Reed
tombreed@comcast.com
www.woodgas.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tami Bond" <yark@UIUC.EDU>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 4:27 AM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] "Combustor", Gasifier" or Pyrolyser"

> Hi Prasad
>
> It is nice to have your voice.
>
> >I am frankly baffled by this discussion. Sticking to the combustion of wood,
> >I thought that it occurs in the following order. (i) first the moisture in
> >the wood is driven out (<100C); (ii) then pyrolysis occcurs (say <500C); and
> >(iii) combustion follows (around 1000C or more).
>
> Can you clarify WHERE these temperatures occur? It is my understanding that
> 1000C+ is the temperature in the gas-phase during flaming combustion (which
> of course may feed back to the solid if it is close enough in space). My
> understanding of the gasifying stove is that the processes are separated,
> and that lower temperatures do occur at the solid, producing smoke and
> products of incomplete combustion. The beauty of the gasifying stove is
> that a little downstream, the PICs are consumed in a gas-phase flame
> reaction (which would be >1000C), so the occurrence of lower temperatures
> at an earlier point is acceptable. There are two ways to make sure you
> don't emit smoke: either (1) you don't release it by making sure the whole
> mix of pyrolysis/gas-phase burning (which you usually see as a chunk of
> wood on fire) is hot enough, or (2) you let the wood smoke and burn
> everything a bit later. If (1), you are challenged with keeping heat in and
> heat-release rate sufficient; if (2), you are challenged with keeping that
> downstream flame going, or the burner smokes like crazy.
>
> Does that make sense or am I missing the point, Tom?
>
> Tami
>

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Sat Oct 11 18:55:36 2003
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Peter Scott reports from Africa
Message-ID: <SAT.11.OCT.2003.155536.0700.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

Peter's report is now available in both HTML and pdf formats on the stoves
website at:
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@TRMILES.COM>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>; "Harmon Seaver" <hseaver@CYBERSHAMANIX.COM>
Cc: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@TRMILES.COM>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: Peter Scott reports from Africa

> I have posted Peter's Uganda Report as a 1.4 MB pdf file on the Stoves
> site at http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>
> I'll post an html versionthis weekend.
>
> Tom
>
>

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Sun Oct 12 15:00:43 2003
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Fw: Second Conference on Biomass for Energy
Message-ID: <SUN.12.OCT.2003.120043.0700.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

----- Original Message -----
From: Tetyana Zhelezna
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:33 AM
Subject: Fw: Second Conference on Biomass for Energy

Dear colleagues!

You are cordially invited to participate in the Second International Ukrainian Conference on Biomass for Energy, 20-22 September 2004 (Kiev)

First announcement and Call for paper can be found at:

http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/First_call_2004_en.htm

Best regards,

Tetyana Zhelyezna

-----------------------------------------------------

Dr Tetyana A. Zhelyezna

Scientific Secretary of the Conference on Biomass for Energy

(20-22 September 2004, Kiev, Ukraine)

Tel./fax: +380 44 456 9462

Fax: +380 44 456 6282

e-mail: zhelyezna@biomass.kiev.ua

http://www.biomass.kiev.ua

From dstill at EPUD.NET Mon Oct 13 13:34:33 2003
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Fall Stove Design Seminar Nov. 10 -14
Message-ID: <MON.13.OCT.2003.103433.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

Dear Friends,

Get ready for the SEATTLE ETHOS ANNUAL MEETING (January 30 -February 1) by
attending this week long stove seminar held at Aprovecho Research Center
November 10 -14. Aprovecho is located on 40 beautiful acres, 20 miles south
of Eugene, Oregon. There are several folks signed up including Pat Manley
from 'Masons With A Mission', Jeremy Foster who helps 'Trees, Water, and
People', Lisa Buttner from 'Winrock' and possibly a couple of folks from the
EPA. Drop in for the first two days if a week seems hard to manage!

Pat and I are hoping to design and build a hybrid Rocket/retained heat oven.
Very exciting...Dr. Larry Winiarski, Damon Ogle, Ken Goyer and I will go
over stove design principles and be attentive to bringing along beginners to
stoves Monday and Tuesday. But, there will be plenty of room and attention
paid to furthering individual projects...

We'll cover the newest discoveries regarding homemade firebrick, Peter
Scott's projects in Africa, stoves for cooking, space heating, drying, water
heating. We'll build a Griddle stove, Rocket stove, water heater and some
sort of bread oven. I'll do a solar cooking design course in honor of
Wilfred and Marie Pimentel.

There are 5 bedrooms available in the straw bale dormitory at Aprovecho, for
$25/night... or less expensive rooms in nearby Cottage Grove at the Tibetan
Buddhist Monastery. Cost for the week is $800 to $0 depending on your
ability to pay. There are free scholarships for ETHOS member university
students. If Mark Bryden, Tami Bond, Bryan Willson, Margie Pinnell, Dan
Kammen, Kirk Smith or Melanie Williams want to refer students, please do so!

Email me for further information. Looking forward to another wonderful week
of discovery...I'll light the wood stove, start up the Mr. Coffee, and we
can invent until dinner time!

All Best,

Dean Still
Director
Advanced Studies in Appropriate Technology
Aprovecho Research Center
www.efn.org/~apro

From adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN Mon Oct 13 10:40:20 2003
From: adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN (A.D. Karve)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Seminar in Yogyakarta
Message-ID: <MON.13.OCT.2003.201020.0530.ADKARVE@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>

Hi Stovers,
I just returned from a seminar on biomass fuels organised from October 1
to October 3, in Yogyakarta, Indonesia. It was arranged by Asia Regional
Cookstoves Programme(ARECOP). We started interacting with ARECOP since
our own conference in Pune in the year 2000. I presented papers on our
process of making char briquettes from light agrowaste as well as on
biogas from waste starch and leftover food. The major part of the
discussion was however on gasification of biomass. Prof. Mukunda from
Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, India, presented a paper on
small scale generation of electricity by using biomass gasifiers. Mr.
Mande from Tata Energy Research Institute, New Delhi, India, presented a
paper on using biomass gasifiers in crematoria. There was an interesting
paper from Japan, in which gas having a very high calorific value was
generated without providing the biomass with oxygen. I think that they
use an external source of heat to heat the biomass, without burning the
biomass itself in oder to generate the heat. Because of language
difficulties, I could not get much information from the author. Had I
studied the subject of gasification more thoroughly, I might have
understood the paper better. Mr. Augustus from Asian Institute of
Technology (Bangkok) presented pictures and reported about a cookstove
developed by his Institute. It was based on the gasifier principle.
Papers were also presented on gasifier stove models developed in the
Phillippines and Indonesia, but all the machines, including the one
from Bangkok, were far too large and far too costly for domestic use.
People who attended the conference were mostly representatives from
various NGOs from Indonesia. Most of them expressed the desire for
something that was non-polluting and yet simpler and cheaper than any of
the gasifier stove models that were presented to them. Both my
presentations produced a lot of enthusiasm. One of the persons who
heard my presentation later arranged for me to see some members of the
parliament of the ruling party in Jakarta. I had a few hours to spare
between my flight from Yogyakarta to Jakarta and the one taking me from
Jakarta to Singapore. I had to give my presentation all over again in
Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia. The M.P.s were impressed and they
wanted that we introduce not only our energy technologies but also our
agri-horticultural technologies into Indonesia. The Indonesian NGO, who
arranged my meeting with the Members of the Parliament, was asked by
them to prepare a project proposal aimed at facilitating the transfer of
technologies from our Institute to Indonesia. The funds would come from
the government of Indonesia. One of the members of the parlieament even
suggested that we should establish a branch of our own organisation in
Indonesia.
Except for the model produced by Tom Reed, the gasifiers are still a
long way away from making a gasifier stove that would be acceptable to
the users. I had never paid any attention to this technology, but after
this seminar, I have started thinking on gasifier stoves and I feel that
it would be possible for me to produce a gasifier stove that would be
small, cheap and acceptable to the users.
Yours
Dr. A.D.Karve, President,
Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
Pune, India.

From kmbryden at IASTATE.EDU Mon Oct 13 21:29:18 2003
From: kmbryden at IASTATE.EDU (kenneth mark bryden)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: 2004 ETHOS stove conference
Message-ID: <MON.13.OCT.2003.202918.0500.KMBRYDEN@IASTATE.EDU>

All,

I am pleased to announce the upcoming 2004 ETHOS conference in Seattle,
Washington USA focused on the issues of household energy, cooking, and
stoves. The dates for the conference are January 31 - February 1, 2003 and
the conference will meet at Northwest College.

More information can be found at
http://www.vrac.iastate.edu/~kmbryden/ETHOS.html

At this time it appears that we will have ~100+ participants and will have
participation from Europe, Central America, South America, Asia, and
Africa. Because of this we are asking that you indicate your interest in
presenting a talk by November 15 to aid in planning and we are also asking
for a registration fee of $30.00 ($10.00 for students), payable at the
conference, to cover the cost of the venue, printed materials, conference
proceedings, and other misc costs. The fee will be waived for anyone who
cannot afford it.

Call for Papers -- Abstracts for papers, talks and workshops are now being
accepted. Please submit to: lbuttner@winrock.org. The deadline for
abstracts is November 15, 2003 and the deadline for papers or transcripts
is January 15, 2004. Proposed talks are not required to include papers but
written material if available provide the attendees with additional helpful
information.

As some of you know there will probably be a 2-day follow-on workshop
sponsored by the US EPA focused on defining the characteristics of good
stoves. As details become available we'll send them out.

I look forward to seeing you in Seattle.

Mark

___________________________________________________________
Kenneth "Mark" Bryden, Ph.D. Assistant Professor
kmbryden@iastate.edu Iowa State University
ph: 515-294-3891 3030 Black Engineering Bldg
fax: 515-294-3261 Ames, Iowa 50011-2161

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Mon Oct 13 19:52:01 2003
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Seminar in Yogyakarta
Message-ID: <MON.13.OCT.2003.175201.0600.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

A.D.

Thanks for your report.

Few questions:

1. Were any of the gasifiers (such as that used for the Indian
crematoria) described as also being charcoal-makers?

2. Was there any discussion of the economics of making charcoal as
a valuable economic aspect of the use of wood and other biomass through a
gasifier.

3. It sounds to me like the Japanese system was a pyrolyzer
(external heating) - somewhat like what you are doing - but he was
interested primarily in the gas. I don't see a way to get the gas without
oxygen without also getting a lot of charcoal.

4. I concur that a cheap "gasifier" can be made in India. Also
should be. Will you be striving for charcoal making or not?
In some past discussions on this list we have talked about using ag
residues (straw) for both combustion and charcoal- making by creating
"cigar" or "rope" shapes. That still looks attractive to me - as a
(hopefully) cheap means of moving ag residues from the fields.
If you are thinking of a "gasifier" for charcoal-making, the key
remaining unknown for making it popular is to turn from batch to continuous
and controllable operation. Anyone have an approach to suggest? What Piet
Verhaart has been doing accomplishes continuous operation through
down-draft - but his is neither a gasifier or a charcoal-maker.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: A.D. Karve <adkarve@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 8:40 AM
Subject: Seminar in Yogyakarta

> ---------------------- Information from the mail
header -----------------------
> Sender: The Stoves Discussion List <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Poster: "A.D. Karve" <adkarve@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>
> Subject: Seminar in Yogyakarta
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> Hi Stovers,
> I just returned from a seminar on biomass fuels organised from October 1
> to October 3, in Yogyakarta, Indonesia. It was arranged by Asia Regional
> Cookstoves Programme(ARECOP). We started interacting with ARECOP since
> our own conference in Pune in the year 2000. I presented papers on our
> process of making char briquettes from light agrowaste as well as on
> biogas from waste starch and leftover food. The major part of the
> discussion was however on gasification of biomass. Prof. Mukunda from
> Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, India, presented a paper on
> small scale generation of electricity by using biomass gasifiers. Mr.
> Mande from Tata Energy Research Institute, New Delhi, India, presented a
> paper on using biomass gasifiers in crematoria. There was an interesting
> paper from Japan, in which gas having a very high calorific value was
> generated without providing the biomass with oxygen. I think that they
> use an external source of heat to heat the biomass, without burning the
> biomass itself in oder to generate the heat. Because of language
> difficulties, I could not get much information from the author. Had I
> studied the subject of gasification more thoroughly, I might have
> understood the paper better. Mr. Augustus from Asian Institute of
> Technology (Bangkok) presented pictures and reported about a cookstove
> developed by his Institute. It was based on the gasifier principle.
> Papers were also presented on gasifier stove models developed in the
> Phillippines and Indonesia, but all the machines, including the one
> from Bangkok, were far too large and far too costly for domestic use.
> People who attended the conference were mostly representatives from
> various NGOs from Indonesia. Most of them expressed the desire for
> something that was non-polluting and yet simpler and cheaper than any of
> the gasifier stove models that were presented to them. Both my
> presentations produced a lot of enthusiasm. One of the persons who
> heard my presentation later arranged for me to see some members of the
> parliament of the ruling party in Jakarta. I had a few hours to spare
> between my flight from Yogyakarta to Jakarta and the one taking me from
> Jakarta to Singapore. I had to give my presentation all over again in
> Jakarta, the capital of Indonesia. The M.P.s were impressed and they
> wanted that we introduce not only our energy technologies but also our
> agri-horticultural technologies into Indonesia. The Indonesian NGO, who
> arranged my meeting with the Members of the Parliament, was asked by
> them to prepare a project proposal aimed at facilitating the transfer of
> technologies from our Institute to Indonesia. The funds would come from
> the government of Indonesia. One of the members of the parlieament even
> suggested that we should establish a branch of our own organisation in
> Indonesia.
> Except for the model produced by Tom Reed, the gasifiers are still a
> long way away from making a gasifier stove that would be acceptable to
> the users. I had never paid any attention to this technology, but after
> this seminar, I have started thinking on gasifier stoves and I feel that
> it would be possible for me to produce a gasifier stove that would be
> small, cheap and acceptable to the users.
> Yours
> Dr. A.D.Karve, President,
> Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
> Pune, India.
>

From adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN Tue Oct 14 08:42:07 2003
From: adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN (A.D. Karve)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Seminar in Yogyakarta
Message-ID: <TUE.14.OCT.2003.181207.0530.ADKARVE@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>

Stovers,
This is just a note to add to the seminar report send by A.D. Karve.
Punchibanda at NERD, Sri Lanka has developed a commercial model of
his gasifier stove. During my recent visit to Sri Lanka I purchased two
models from NERD - one is a natural draft gasifier and the other is a
forced draft one. I have seen both the stoves in operation, and am quite
impressed with the performance. What is most impressive is the aesthetic
appearance of the stove. Some of the models that Punchibanda displayed
were set into a platform and had the appearance of an LPG operated
cooking range. That would certainly be an added selling point for these
stoves. I hope Dr. Vijewardene or Punchibanda will share pictures and
more information with the list members. I now have a Ph.D. student who,
as a starting point of his work, will make a comparative study of
Punchibanda's gasifier stoves and some of the Indian stoves in the
context of Indian style cooking.
Regards,
Priyadarshini Karve

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Tue Oct 14 20:25:45 2003
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Seminar in Yogyakarta
Message-ID: <TUE.14.OCT.2003.202545.0400.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

DM Punchibanda of the National Engineering Research and Development (NERD)
centre won an award for a stove in November 2002 that is pictured in the
24 November 2002 Sunday Observer at:
http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2002/11/24/fea11.html

Links to the NERD site seem to be temprarily down:
http://www.nsf.ac.lk/nerd/profile.htm

The stove pictured looks like the gasifier models by Tom Reed and others.

I find it interesting that the ARECOP attendees now find your fuel
processing (charcoal) system to be of interest. ARECOP featured your
system in a 2001 issue of GLOW magazine.

Regards,

Tom Miles

From dstill at EPUD.NET Fri Oct 17 00:57:00 2003
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Report on Boulder conference
Message-ID: <THU.16.OCT.2003.215700.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

Dear Friends,

This is a personal experience of the week long Sustainability conference in
Boulder. There were 750 attendees and a lot going on. I missed some
interesting talks because so much was scheduled that it was necessary to
pick out of equally desirable options. My highlights and realizations were:

Becoming better friends with the ETHOS members there. Makes us more
effective to know and trust eachother. It was really nice of Bryan Willson
to show us the fabled mall in Boulder and to show us his huge lab...

Seeing Ron Larson's new house, winner of a national competition. Has 7Kw of
photovoltaics, all the bells and whistles and is beautiful to boot. The
house was right next to the field house, ready to be moved again to Ron's
site. Congratulations Ron!

Meeting the solar cooking community and starting to heal divisions that have
kept both biomass and solar folks from working together as effectively as
possible.

Meeting the ceramics folks like Manny Hernandez who uses clay/sawdust mixes
to make kilns and water filters! Amazing...

Finally meeting Agua Das and seeing his gasified smelter turn thick almost
green smoke into flame. I also had a ball watching Paul Anderson and Tom
Reed, demonstrating their stoves to an amazed crowd.

Great to meet individuals who give 110% making solar cookers in Africa,
educational equipment in Uganda, stoves, water systems, lighting in Nepal,
etc. I felt like I was watching humanity at it's best, sometimes.

Sneaking out of a talk with Don O'Neal and Mark Bryden before Hunter Lovins
began speaking. Turns out she was right behind us and said, "Have a beer on
me, boys!"

Yes, there was a lot of baloney, too. Most reports were self serving
advertisements looking for funding. Under reporting of failures was all too
evident. There was a pervasive ethnocentrism at the conference as well. Most
of the folks hadn't gotten to work in the field and the paradigm that their
great ideas could change the world was unchallenged. Ideas are great, in my
opinion, but the work of doing something puts abstract thinking in a better
perspective. There was a "first world education will solve the problems of
the poor" attitude that I found very unfortunate. Putting solutions to work
in a context is the hard work. Ideas out of a context of actual work are
floating in the air detached from reality.

That said, I found the conference to be immensely valuable. Reminded me of
going to town after a month on the ranch. I came back full of energy knowing
that many good souls are pushing together trying be helpful. And I'm very
glad to know some of those good souls...

All Best,

Dean

From dstill at EPUD.NET Fri Oct 17 12:03:36 2003
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Fw: Peter Scott's Lesotho report
Message-ID: <FRI.17.OCT.2003.090336.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

Dear ETHOS, STOVES,

The always helpful Tom Miles enables us to see Peter Scott's follow up
report from Lesotho. Isn't the REPP. STOVES site incredible! It is a library
of information for the world on stoves.

Peter continues to build great big stoves, and send amazing reports full of
photos. Check out the Big Man Stove from Lesotho! Peter's friends will be
happy to know that he is planning to be at the ETHOS meeting in Seattle, by
the way.

>Have a look at:
>
>http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Scott/nkokonono.htm
>
>and of course:
>http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>
Best,

Dean

From ventfory at IAFRICA.COM Fri Oct 17 09:27:33 2003
From: ventfory at IAFRICA.COM (Kobus)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Briquette gasifier stove - photos
Message-ID: <FRI.17.OCT.2003.152733.0200.VENTFORY@IAFRICA.COM>

Hi all,

We now have photos of our first prototype gasifier stove and also include the information displayed at the booth in Boulder.

The report can be seen on the stove page or go to
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Kobus/gasbriqstove.htm

Unfortunately it did not gasify properly at the conference and was sidelined due to a problem with the briquettes (Richard packed coffee ground instead of coffee husk briquettes!) and other minor design faults. Its back in Uganda now, undergoing some more testing by Richard. Our next prototype will be of a similar design, but this time with the emphasis on cost-effective materials and incorporating improved manufacturing and assembly techniques, with the emphasis on D.I Y. Feedback from the users will also determine the final shape it is to take over the next couple of months. We will also be altering the briquette dimensions (volume) to increase power output and will focus on perfecting a pot shield.

We promise to keep all informed.

Regards

Kobus Venter
and Richard Stanley

From K.Prasad at TUE.NL Fri Oct 17 09:50:53 2003
From: K.Prasad at TUE.NL (Prasad, K.)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: "Combustor", Gasifier" or Pyrolyser"
Message-ID: <FRI.17.OCT.2003.155053.0200.K.PRASAD@TUE.NL>

Dear Tami

Nice to hear your response.

Tom Reed was faster on the draw as it were. I was never fast on response,
and needless to say have grown slower than usual as I am growing older.

In an overall sense I agree with Tom's response.

I agree with you that 1000C+ occurs in the zone of flaming combustion. I
also agree with the beauty of the gasifier stove. But my only "fear" is that
if it is meant to replace the "open" fire now being used by millions of
households in the third world, I have my reservations. Of course since I
have retired I have had no contact with the stove people on the "ground" as
it were. But my guess is things have not changed much in the last eight
years if you follow, as I do, the "happenings" in Iraq. People don't
necessarily receive with enthusiasm things that are unfamiliar. Thus to
improve the situation we need to improve things in a gradual and sustained
manner.

I am sorry to mix politics and science like this. I'm afraid whenever one
speaks of helping the poor, politics happens tro be the next door
neighbiour.

Yours
Prasad

-----Original Message-----
From: Tami Bond [mailto:yark@UIUC.EDU]
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 12:27 PM
To: STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
Subject: Re: [STOVES] "Combustor", Gasifier" or Pyrolyser"

Hi Prasad

It is nice to have your voice.

>I am frankly baffled by this discussion. Sticking to the combustion of
wood,
>I thought that it occurs in the following order. (i) first the moisture in
>the wood is driven out (<100C); (ii) then pyrolysis occcurs (say <500C);
and
>(iii) combustion follows (around 1000C or more).

Does that make sense or am I missing the point, Tom?

Tami

From psanders at ILSTU.EDU Fri Oct 17 14:36:53 2003
From: psanders at ILSTU.EDU (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: [ethos] Fw: Peter Scott's Lesotho report
In-Reply-To: <005301c394c8$3b7e2a40$e71e6c0c@default>
Message-ID: <FRI.17.OCT.2003.133653.0500.PSANDERS@ILSTU.EDU>

Peter, Dean and all,

Nice work in Lesotho on large stoves.

In your testing, could you please consider the following variable / factor:

The impact of the stove STRUCTURE (including the skirt) can be considered
to be different from the stove COMBUSTION CHAMBER (where the Rocket
"creates" the heat).

In other words, would the three-leg (three stone) fire be more effective
WITH a skirt to direct the heat upwards? Probably would be. Just be sure
to allow a gap under the skirt to permit air to come into the fire.

Likewise, what is the impact of the Rocket stove WITHOUT a skirt? Less
effective, but how much less effective?

Issues are "time to reach boiling" and amount of fuel consumed.

and there could be continuum from
3-leg without skirt to
3-leg with skirt to
Rocket without skirt to
Rocket with skirt

I hope you can get some data on this, even if only approximate values.

Paul

At 09:03 AM 10/17/03 -0700, Dean Still wrote:
>Dear ETHOS, STOVES,
>
>The always helpful Tom Miles enables us to see Peter Scott's follow up
>report from Lesotho. Isn't the REPP. STOVES site incredible! It is a library
>of information for the world on stoves.
>
>Peter continues to build great big stoves, and send amazing reports full of
>photos. Check out the Big Man Stove from Lesotho! Peter's friends will be
>happy to know that he is planning to be at the ETHOS meeting in Seattle, by
>the way.
>
> >Have a look at:
> >
> >http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Scott/nkokonono.htm
> >
> >and of course:
> >http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
> >
>Best,
>
>Dean
>
>
>---
>To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@vrac.iastate.edu with
>this as the first line in the BODY of the message: unsubscribe ethos
>---

Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D., Fulbright Prof. to Mozambique 8/99 - 7/00
Rotary University Teacher Grantee to Mozambique >10 mo of 2001-2003
Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders

From dstill at EPUD.NET Sat Oct 18 12:11:55 2003
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Combustion E and Heat Transfer E
Message-ID: <SAT.18.OCT.2003.091155.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

Dear Paul,

Sam Baldwin in the 1980's created a sheet metal VITA skirt stove around the
fire and did the math to determine the efficiency of heat transfer given gap
size, length of gap, etc. (Biomass Stoves, 1987, page 48) Creating the right
sized gap between the skirt and pot is usually the most important factor in
improving fuel efficiency, in my opinion. If a three stone fire delivers the
same amount of heat, at the same speed and temperature as a Rocket
combustion chamber to the pot there is no appreciable difference in the
thermal efficiencies. The use of the right gap between the pot and skirt can
approximately double the fuel efficiency of either a 3 stone fire or a
Rocket stove.

Especially in the wind the three stone fire does not deliver equally hot
flue gases to the pot because the combustion area is cooler and too much air
cools the temperatures at the pot. As well, the flue gases do not strike the
boundary layer of still air at the pot with the same force since the
insulated Rocket chimney above the fire increases draft. But since the three
stone fire can score above 30% thermal efficiency these differences don't
seem to be major to me. Generally, in my opinion, the Rocket combustion
chamber is a substantial improvement over the three stone fire because it is
cleaner burning. Dr. Winiarski's design principles do not stop at the
combustion chamber. The pot skirt, use of low mass materials, good
insulation, increased draft, etc. all are as important in creating a
improved cooking system. Focusing on combustion misses the importance of
heat transfer efficiency.

By the way, the size of the pot and how full it is has a tremendous effect
on thermal efficiency. Big pots expose much greater surface area to the hot
flue gases raising thermal efficiencies above 50%. That's why we all need to
use a standard sized pot when we try to compare stoves.

All Best,

Dean

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Sat Oct 18 03:03:48 2003
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: New Additiions to the Stoves Pages
Message-ID: <SAT.18.OCT.2003.000348.0700.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

Stovers have been active this Fall. Among the many new images I've added the following to the stoves pages:

Ramesh K Nibhoria, Nishant Energy, Chandigarh, shows us his Community Briquette Stove, October 2003

John Davies has some new modifications to his Coal Gasifier Stove, October 2003

Richard Stanley shows us his TMC-1 Thresher Masher Crusher used to prepare fuels for conversion to holey briquettes at the micro level. October 2003

Links are up for Lanny Henson's Two Pot Stove with Oven, October 2003

As usual at:
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/

Coming soon:
Hotbags, ceramics, etc.

Thank you all for the contributions

Regards

Tom Miles

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Sat Oct 18 21:44:22 2003
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: New Additions to the Stoves Pages
Message-ID: <SAT.18.OCT.2003.214422.0400.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

More on the Stove webpage at:
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves

Also check the Stoves Blog ("Weblog" from the web page) for updates and
direct links to changes on the site.

The Country listing of stoves has been updated to include the events
listed on the main stoves page. (Links By Country)

Stuart Conway's photo from the Trees Water and People Booth at the
Sustainable Resources 2003 Conference in Boulder Colorado (Sept 29-Oct 6)
illustrates Dean Still's report of the event. (Events)

Lisa Buttner's report from the June Seminar on Bioenergy and Rural
Sustainable Development Small Scale Applications Working Group Morelia,
Michoacan, Mexico has been posted along with some TWP photos of
traditional and improved stoves in Mexico and Nicaragua. (Lisa Buttner,
Stuart Conway)

Lisa's report from the ESMAP/GENES Mesoamerican Network on Gender in
Sustainable Energy April - July 2002 has been converted to html. The html
version still needs cleaning but if you want the full report you can
download the pdf version at 5.4 MB. (Lisa Buttner)

Stovers who would like to write or compile review articles with photos and
links on specific topics such as ceramics, gasifier stoves, fuels,
charcoal, health, etc. please send them to me (mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com)
and I will post them.

Tom

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:03:48 -0700, Tom Miles <tmiles@TRMILES.COM> wrote:

>Stovers have been active this Fall. Among the many new images I've added
the following to the stoves pages:
>
>Ramesh K Nibhoria, Nishant Energy, Chandigarh, shows us his Community
Briquette Stove, October 2003
>
>John Davies has some new modifications to his Coal Gasifier Stove,
October 2003
>
>Richard Stanley shows us his TMC-1 Thresher Masher Crusher used to
prepare fuels for conversion to holey briquettes at the micro level.
October 2003
>
>Links are up for Lanny Henson's Two Pot Stove with Oven, October 2003
>
>As usual at:
>http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>
>Coming soon:
>Hotbags, ceramics, etc.
>
>Thank you all for the contributions
>
>Regards
>
>Tom Miles
>

From tombreed at COMCAST.NET Sun Oct 19 01:52:56 2003
From: tombreed at COMCAST.NET (tombreed)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Slow to change??
Message-ID: <SAT.18.OCT.2003.235256.0600.TOMBREED@COMCAST.NET>

Dear Prasad and all:

Yes, people are often slow to change to something that is marginally better.

However, the cell phone has swept the world and swept out poor national
phone systems in less than a decade because it is outstandingly better.

I think that forced convection WoodGas stoves will be outstandingly better
than any other biomass cooking device available, so we are starting with the
US campstove market before going worldwide. (Don't want to experiment on
those most in need.)

Time will tell...

TOM REED

PERCEPTIVE REMARKS FROM PRASAD

> Dear Tami
>
> Nice to hear your response.
>
> Tom Reed was faster on the draw as it were. I was never fast on response,
> and needless to say have grown slower than usual as I am growing older.
>
> In an overall sense I agree with Tom's response.
>
> I agree with you that 1000C+ occurs in the zone of flaming combustion. I
> also agree with the beauty of the gasifier stove. But my only "fear" is
that
> if it is meant to replace the "open" fire now being used by millions of
> households in the third world, I have my reservations. Of course since I
> have retired I have had no contact with the stove people on the "ground"
as
> it were. But my guess is things have not changed much in the last eight
> years if you follow, as I do, the "happenings" in Iraq. People don't
> necessarily receive with enthusiasm things that are unfamiliar. Thus to
> improve the situation we need to improve things in a gradual and sustained
> manner.
>
> I am sorry to mix politics and science like this. I'm afraid whenever one
> speaks of helping the poor, politics happens tro be the next door
> neighbiour.
>
> Yours
> Prasad
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tami Bond [mailto:yark@UIUC.EDU]
> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 12:27 PM
> To: STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG
> Subject: Re: [STOVES] "Combustor", Gasifier" or Pyrolyser"
>
>
> Hi Prasad
>
> It is nice to have your voice.
>
> >I am frankly baffled by this discussion. Sticking to the combustion of
> wood,
> >I thought that it occurs in the following order. (i) first the moisture
in
> >the wood is driven out (<100C); (ii) then pyrolysis occcurs (say <500C);
> and
> >(iii) combustion follows (around 1000C or more).
>
> Can you clarify WHERE these temperatures occur? It is my understanding
that
> 1000C+ is the temperature in the gas-phase during flaming combustion
(which
> of course may feed back to the solid if it is close enough in space). My
> understanding of the gasifying stove is that the processes are separated,
> and that lower temperatures do occur at the solid, producing smoke and
> products of incomplete combustion. The beauty of the gasifying stove is
> that a little downstream, the PICs are consumed in a gas-phase flame
> reaction (which would be >1000C), so the occurrence of lower temperatures
> at an earlier point is acceptable. There are two ways to make sure you
> don't emit smoke: either (1) you don't release it by making sure the whole
> mix of pyrolysis/gas-phase burning (which you usually see as a chunk of
> wood on fire) is hot enough, or (2) you let the wood smoke and burn
> everything a bit later. If (1), you are challenged with keeping heat in
and
> heat-release rate sufficient; if (2), you are challenged with keeping that
> downstream flame going, or the burner smokes like crazy.
>
> Does that make sense or am I missing the point, Tom?
>
> Tami

From psanders at ILSTU.EDU Mon Oct 20 15:59:47 2003
From: psanders at ILSTU.EDU (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Nothing for Indoor air pollution: Fwd: $200 million available for
grants on Grand Challenges in Global Health
Message-ID: <MON.20.OCT.2003.145947.0500.PSANDERS@ILSTU.EDU>

Stovers, ETHOS, and HEDON,

Sorry to say, not a dollar is made eligible for research on indoor air
pollution (IAP) from the Grand Challenges project. (and I did make sure
that IAP was nominated for consideration.)

Do not waste your time reading the rest of this message unless you want to
find out what 14 topics relating to human health were considered worthy
enough to compete for up to $20 million grants.

Paul

>Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:07:32 -0400
>From: grants@GrandChallengesGH.org
>Subject: $200 million available for grants on Grand Challenges in Global
>Health
>To: grants@GrandChallengesGH.org
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
>
>To all interested scientists:
>
>The Grand Challenges in Global Health initiative has selected 14 scientific
>and technological challenges, the solution of which could lead to important
>advances against diseases of the developing world. These challenges are
>listed below.
>
>The Foundation for the National Institutes of Health now seeks innovative
>solutions to these 14 critical research problems. Any scientist intrigued by
>these challenges and interested in obtaining funding to solve them is
>encouraged to apply. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has awarded $200
>million to the Foundation for NIH to administer this initiative with
>guidance from a distinguished international Scientific Board.
>
>Grants will be awarded for up to $20 million each, for a maximum five-year
>period. Applications are invited from every part of the world, from single
>or multiple institutions, both non-profit and for profit. Collaborative
>approaches are encouraged. To apply for a research grant, investigators must
>first submit a letter of intent (LOI). LOIs that propose the most promising
>and innovative research approach will be given an invitation to submit a
>formal grant proposal.
>
>For detailed descriptions of the grand challenges, how they were selected,
>and instructions on submitting letters of intent, please visit
>www.grandchallegesgh.org. All letters of intent MUST comply with the
>instructions on the Web site.
>
>LOIs are due January 9, 2004.
>
>Please distribute this e-mail to colleagues who may be interested in
>obtaining funding to work on these important scientific problems.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Elke Jordan, Ph.D.
>
>Manager
>
>Grand Challenges in Global Health
>
>Foundation for the National Institutes of Health
>
>
>
>
>
>Goals and Grand Challenges
>
>
>
>To improve childhood vaccines:
>
>
>
> GC 1 Create effective single-dose vaccines that can be
>used soon after birth;
>
>
>
> GC 2 Prepare vaccines that do not require refrigeration;
>
>
>
>GC 3 Develop needle-free delivery systems for vaccines.
>
>
>
>To create new vaccines:
>
>
>
>GC 4 Devise reliable tests in model systems to evaluate live
>attenuated vaccines;
>
>
>
>GC 5 Solve how to design antigens for effective, protective immunity;
>
>
>
>GC 6 Learn which immunological responses provide protective immunity.
>
>
>
>To control insects that transmit agents of disease:
>
>
>
>GC 7 Develop a genetic strategy to deplete or incapacitate a disease-
>transmitting insect population;
>
>
>
>GC 8 Develop a chemical strategy to deplete or incapacitate a disease-
>transmitting insect population.
>
>
>
>To improve nutrition to promote health:
>
>
>
> GC 9 Create a full range of optimal, bioavailable
>nutrients in a single staple plant species.
>
>
>
>To improve drug treatment of infectious diseases:
>
>
>
>GC 10 Discover drugs and delivery systems that minimize the likelihood
>of drug resistant micro-organisms.
>
>
>
>To cure latent and chronic infections:
>
>
>
>GC 11 Create therapies that can cure latent infections;
>
>
>
> GC 12 Create immunological methods that can cure chronic
>infections.
>
>
>
>To measure disease and health status accurately and economically in
>developing countries:
>
>
>
>GC 13 Develop technologies that permit quantitative assessment of
>population health status;
>
>
>
>GC 14 Develop technologies that allow assessment of individuals for
>multiple
>
> conditions or pathogens at point-of-care.
>
>
>

From kchisholm at CA.INTER.NET Mon Oct 20 18:08:22 2003
From: kchisholm at CA.INTER.NET (Kevin Chisholm)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Nothing for Indoor air pollution: Fwd: $200 million available
for grants on Grand Challenges in Global Health
Message-ID: <MON.20.OCT.2003.190822.0300.KCHISHOLM@CA.INTER.NET>

Dear Paul

What a disappointment!! The Gates Foundation money, except for that required
for GC9, will most likely go to the "large already wealthy multi-National
drug companies" who are probably already working on these challenges
already!!

Aside from GC9, all the other Global Challenges will do little or nothing to
reduce the dependency of the Third World on the First World.

As my good friend Yogi Berra was wont to say "It is deja vu all over again."
:-)

Best wishes,

Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders@ILSTU.EDU>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 4:59 PM
Subject: [STOVES] Nothing for Indoor air pollution: Fwd: $200 million
available for grants on Grand Challenges in Global Health

> Stovers, ETHOS, and HEDON,
>
> Sorry to say, not a dollar is made eligible for research on indoor air
> pollution (IAP) from the Grand Challenges project. (and I did make sure
> that IAP was nominated for consideration.)
>
> Do not waste your time reading the rest of this message unless you want to
> find out what 14 topics relating to human health were considered worthy
> enough to compete for up to $20 million grants.
>
> Paul
>
> >Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:07:32 -0400
> >From: grants@GrandChallengesGH.org
> >Subject: $200 million available for grants on Grand Challenges in Global
> >Health
> >To: grants@GrandChallengesGH.org
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
> >
> >To all interested scientists:
> >
> >The Grand Challenges in Global Health initiative has selected 14
scientific
> >and technological challenges, the solution of which could lead to
important
> >advances against diseases of the developing world. These challenges are
> >listed below.
> >
> >The Foundation for the National Institutes of Health now seeks innovative
> >solutions to these 14 critical research problems. Any scientist intrigued
by
> >these challenges and interested in obtaining funding to solve them is
> >encouraged to apply. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has awarded $200
> >million to the Foundation for NIH to administer this initiative with
> >guidance from a distinguished international Scientific Board.
> >
> >Grants will be awarded for up to $20 million each, for a maximum
five-year
> >period. Applications are invited from every part of the world, from
single
> >or multiple institutions, both non-profit and for profit. Collaborative
> >approaches are encouraged. To apply for a research grant, investigators
must
> >first submit a letter of intent (LOI). LOIs that propose the most
promising
> >and innovative research approach will be given an invitation to submit a
> >formal grant proposal.
> >
> >For detailed descriptions of the grand challenges, how they were
selected,
> >and instructions on submitting letters of intent, please visit
> >www.grandchallegesgh.org. All letters of intent MUST comply with the
> >instructions on the Web site.
> >
> >LOIs are due January 9, 2004.
> >
> >Please distribute this e-mail to colleagues who may be interested in
> >obtaining funding to work on these important scientific problems.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Elke Jordan, Ph.D.
> >
> >Manager
> >
> >Grand Challenges in Global Health
> >
> >Foundation for the National Institutes of Health
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Goals and Grand Challenges
> >
> >
> >
> >To improve childhood vaccines:
> >
> >
> >
> > GC 1 Create effective single-dose vaccines that can be
> >used soon after birth;
> >
> >
> >
> > GC 2 Prepare vaccines that do not require
refrigeration;
> >
> >
> >
> >GC 3 Develop needle-free delivery systems for vaccines.
> >
> >
> >
> >To create new vaccines:
> >
> >
> >
> >GC 4 Devise reliable tests in model systems to evaluate live
> >attenuated vaccines;
> >
> >
> >
> >GC 5 Solve how to design antigens for effective, protective
immunity;
> >
> >
> >
> >GC 6 Learn which immunological responses provide protective
immunity.
> >
> >
> >
> >To control insects that transmit agents of disease:
> >
> >
> >
> >GC 7 Develop a genetic strategy to deplete or incapacitate a
disease-
> >transmitting insect population;
> >
> >
> >
> >GC 8 Develop a chemical strategy to deplete or incapacitate a
disease-
> >transmitting insect population.
> >
> >
> >
> >To improve nutrition to promote health:
> >
> >
> >
> > GC 9 Create a full range of optimal, bioavailable
> >nutrients in a single staple plant species.
> >
> >
> >
> >To improve drug treatment of infectious diseases:
> >
> >
> >
> >GC 10 Discover drugs and delivery systems that minimize the
likelihood
> >of drug resistant micro-organisms.
> >
> >
> >
> >To cure latent and chronic infections:
> >
> >
> >
> >GC 11 Create therapies that can cure latent infections;
> >
> >
> >
> > GC 12 Create immunological methods that can cure chronic
> >infections.
> >
> >
> >
> >To measure disease and health status accurately and economically in
> >developing countries:
> >
> >
> >
> >GC 13 Develop technologies that permit quantitative assessment of
> >population health status;
> >
> >
> >
> >GC 14 Develop technologies that allow assessment of individuals for
> >multiple
> >
> > conditions or pathogens at point-of-care.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D., Fulbright Prof. to Mozambique 8/99 - 7/00
> Rotary University Teacher Grantee to Mozambique >10 mo of 2001-2003
> Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
> Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
> E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders

From hseaver at CYBERSHAMANIX.COM Tue Oct 21 01:43:31 2003
From: hseaver at CYBERSHAMANIX.COM (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: masonry heater list?
Message-ID: <TUE.21.OCT.2003.004331.0500.HSEAVER@CYBERSHAMANIX.COM>

Does anyone know of a masonry heater discussion group? I'm particularly
interested in plans for a clay/adobe heater.

--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com

From ventfory at IAFRICA.COM Tue Oct 21 02:54:51 2003
From: ventfory at IAFRICA.COM (Kobus)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Briquette gasifier stove corrections/directions
Message-ID: <TUE.21.OCT.2003.085451.0200.VENTFORY@IAFRICA.COM>

Richard
Thanks for painting the full picture, I just scribbled it off as I was in a bit of a rush.

You further said:

. I have thus far enlarged the secondary air inlet holes (in the outer shell to roughly 30 mm dia. each)

<KV> Thanks. (We felt that the cross-sectional area of the holes in the outer drum that feeds in secondary air onto the sleeve should be enlarged, i.e. should not be the same as the holes in the sleeve.)

. On the fuel tray we can indeed change the flip down mechanism with a more user friendly design: I suggest that we pivot the tray off the far wall and as you suggest use a extended rod as a handle--and run it through a two position slot (or just an upper slot or hook off the front wall. this averts the need for a swinging shelf as it now moves more or less in a straight up and down arc.

<KV> Great idea, why did I not think of that first? - I suppose we had to start with something.

. I am wondering about the need to change the feed tray hole size as primary air is really being controlled by the door no ?

<KV> I cannot really explain it, but allowing in too much air up the center of the briquette did not allow consistent or even prolonged blue flame holding above the briquette. Perhaps it has something to do with either fuel/air imbalances inside the briquette or the dominance of the resulting flame up the middle of the briquette interfering with gas consumption rates required for flame holding above the briquette.

. On the idea of adding more secondary air holes above the first ring of holes the question remains how will these be fed. do you want to make holes in the metal separator ring to let air into these upper holes or to just drill them in directly through the outside shell ?

<KV> We could do away with the insulation for the cheaper gasifier (and semi-)versions negating the need for metal separator rings. Will try this first and then let you know. Obviously the outside of the stove will get very hot and we'll have to look at ways in which the user can be protected from skin burns. The insulation does little for actual combustion process due to the excellent insulative nature of the risers.

RS You also said

I prefer that you make the potter contact there as I am up to my neck with other projects. Either way though, given the design issues we are currently facing, perhaps we should get the existing stove right with your existing riser material before moving to another refractory material for now.

<KV> OK, will do.

am I pardoned?

Kobus (Brutus)

Got your note sent to the stoves group recently. The only problem is that it is a bit inaccurate:

1) The coffee grounds briquettes stuffed in by my well intended helper here were certainly not planned for the demonstration. It was easy to confuse them though: There was very little difference in appearance between the coffee grounds blends and the coffee husk blends as the latter incorporated a healthy belt of sawdust. No matter: It was my mistake and I suppose I deserved the jibe.
But that is not the important thing. What was important was the fact that:
2) Other kinds of briquettes made by Mike Lupton ( right there in Boulder Colorado) were tried in the stove: They too, failed to gassify and ,
3) As a sort of double blind test, all briquettes burned nicely in the Vesto and even in Paul Anderson's Juntos contraption.
Don't get me wrong: I am a firm believer in what we are developing and have like you seen the same blue flames as proof that it did work here in Africa but perhaps the best way to get it right, is to have a solid understanding of the initial problems.

On the constructive side,
. I have thus far enlarged the secondary air inlet holes (in the outer shell to roughly 30 mm dia. each)
. On the fuel tray we can indeed change the flip down mechanism with a more user friendly design: I suggest that we pivot the tray off the far wall and as you suggest use a extended rod as a handle--and run it through a two position slot (or just an upper slot or hook off the front wall. this averts the need for a swinging shelf as it now moves more or less in a straight up and down arc.
. I am wondering about the need to change the feed tray hole size as primary air is really being controlled by the door no ?
. On the idea of adding more secondary air holes above the first ring of holes the question remains how will these be fed. do you want to make holes in the metal separator ring to let air into these upper holes or to just drill them in directly through the outside shell ?
I prefer that you make the potter contact there as I am up to my neck with other projects. Either way though, given the design issues we are currently facing, perhaps we should get the existing stove right with your existing riser material before moving to another refractory material for now.

Et tu ?

Richard

Kobus wrote:

Hi all,
We now have photos of our first prototype gasifier stove and also include the information displayed at the booth in Boulder.

The report can be seen on the stove page or go to
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/Kobus/gasbriqstove.htm

We promise to keep all informed.

Regards

Kobus Venter
and Richard Stanley

From jeff.forssell at CFL.SE Tue Oct 21 02:51:53 2003
From: jeff.forssell at CFL.SE (Jeff Forssell)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Nothing for Indoor air pollution: Fwd: $200 million for
Challenge: Vaccines?
Message-ID: <TUE.21.OCT.2003.085153.0200.JEFF.FORSSELL@CFL.SE>

Unfortunately I no longer feel so sure that what we are taught about vaccination is correct. So I can't even feel sure that the first four "challenges" (and maybe also those with the word "immunological") are worth cheering for (outside the phamaceutical board rooms).

If you're interested in having your innocence about vaccinations threatened check: http://www.gval.com/myth2.htm

> What a disappointment!! The Gates Foundation money, except
> for that required
> for GC9, will most likely go to the "large already wealthy
> multi-National
> drug companies" who are probably already working on these challenges
> already!!

> > >solutions to these 14 critical research problems. Any
> > >To improve childhood vaccines:
> > > GC 1 Create effective single-dose
> vaccines that can be used soon after birth;
> > > GC 2 Prepare vaccines that do not require
> refrigeration;
> > >GC 3 Develop needle-free delivery systems for vaccines.
> > >
> > >To create new vaccines:
> > >GC 4 Devise reliable tests in model systems to evaluate live
> > >attenuated vaccines;
> > >GC 5 Solve how to design antigens for effective, protective
> immunity;
> > >GC 6 Learn which immunological responses provide protective
> immunity.
> > >

> > >To improve nutrition to promote health:
> > > GC 9 Create a full range of optimal,
> bioavailable nutrients in a single staple plant species.

Will probably go to GMO where the example of vitamin A rice has lead to starving poor farmers who don't have the means to invest in the new crops and are loose the competition with rich farmers who have the means.

> > > GC 12 Create immunological methods that
> can cure chronic infections.

> > >To measure disease and health status accurately and economically in
> > >developing countries:

> > >GC 13 Develop technologies that permit quantitative
> assessment of population health status;

Perhaps this one could perhaps be partially used for getting "Indoor air" on the agenda. Dare one hope?

Jeff Forssell (tv? s)
SWEDISH AGENCY FOR FLEXIBLE LEARNING (CFL)
Box 3024
SE-871 03 H?RN?SAND /Sweden

<http://www.cfl.se/english/index.htm>
+46(0)611-55 79 48 (Work) +46(0)611-55 79 80 (Fax Work)
+46(0)611-22 1 44 (Home) ( mobil: 070- 35 80 306; [070-4091514])

residence:
Gamla Karlebyv?gen 14 / SE-871 33 H?rn?sand /Sweden

e-mail: every workday: jeff.forssell@cfl.se <mailto:jeff.forssell@cfl.se>
(travel, visiting: jeff_forssell@hotmail.com & MSMessenger)

Personal homepage: <http://www.torget.se/users/i/iluhya/index.htm>
My village technology page: http://home.bip.net/jeff.forssell

Instant messengers Odigo 792701 (ICQ: 55800587; NM/MSM use hotmail address)

From fmartirena_add at YAHOO.ES Tue Oct 21 03:38:53 2003
From: fmartirena_add at YAHOO.ES (Fernando Martirena)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: A request from Romania
Message-ID: <TUE.21.OCT.2003.093853.0200.FMARTIRENAADD@YAHOO.ES>

Dear list members

Please find below a request that came to our website at ECOSUR. Hope you can give them the needed information

kind regards and thanks

fernando martirena

----- Original Message -----
From: Dragos Mocanu
To: fmartirena@yahoo.es
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:50 PM
Subject: Briquetting Press System

Dear Sir,

We are a romanian firm, looking for a Briquetting Press System for sawdust and/or woodshaving.
As I can see in your site you manage to develop a Sawdust Briquette Press.
We would like to know if you can provide any other informations regarding the press as: capacity/day, caloric power of the briquettes and so on.
For further questions/answers feel free to contact me at: e-mail adress: moc@servesa.org or at phone no: 0040 722 405 405.
Hope of hearing from you soon,

Mocanu Radu
Bucharest
20.10.2003

From rmiranda at INET.COM.BR Tue Oct 21 10:10:17 2003
From: rmiranda at INET.COM.BR (Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Fwd: 2004 Ashden Awards for Sustainable Energy - FINAL CALL
Message-ID: <TUE.21.OCT.2003.121017.0200.RMIRANDA@INET.COM.BR>

>Delivered-To: rmiranda@inet.com.br
>Subject: 2004 Ashden Awards for Sustainable Energy - FINAL CALL
>
>From: jane.shepherd@sfct.org.uk
>Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:28:25 +0100
>
>2004 Ashden Awards for Sustainable Energy
>
>I am pleased to announce the final call for overseas applications to the
>2004 Ashden Awards for Sustainable Energy. The deadline for overseas
>applications is Friday 14th November this year. I would be grateful if
>you could pass on this notice to any interested parties.
>
>The 2004 Ashden Awards for Sustainable Energy offer five awards, each worth
>up to ?30,000. Three of these awards are for projects in developing
>countries under the categories: food, light, education, health and
>enterprise. Two awards are for UK projects under the categories urban and
>rural.
>
>The Awards reward outstanding and innovative sustainable energy projects.
>We are looking for award winners that are exemplary in the field of
>sustainabnle energy and inspirational for others to follow. In particular,
>we recognise schemes that apply appropriate renewable energy and/or energy
>efficiency technologies in ways that improve people's quality of life while
>protecting the environment.
>
>Finalists will be invited to London next June to attend the interview and
>awards ceremony, and to meet many influential people within the field of
>sustainable energy.
>
>For more information about the awards, including awards criteria, details
>of past winners and application forms, please see the website:
>www.ashdenawards.org .
>
>We look forward to receiving completed applications by 14th November 2003.
>
>With best wishes,
>
>Jane Shepherd
>The Ashden Awards for Sustainable Energy
>
>info@ashdenawards.org
>
>
>
>
>The Sainsbury Family Charitable Trusts
>Allington House (1st Floor)
>150 Victoria Street
>London SW1E 5AE
>
>Direct Line: 020 7410 7044
>Swtichboard: 020 7410 0330
>Fax: 020 7410 0332
>
>
>
>
>Jane Shepherd
>
>The Sainsbury Family Charitable Trusts
>Allington House (1st Floor)
>150 VIctoria Street
>London SW1E 5AE
>020 7410 7042 (Tuesdays)
>01865 292906 (Mondays and Thursdays)
>Please contact Danielle Jones on 020 7410 7044 in by absence.
>
>
>
>DISCLAIMER
>The information contained in this communication, and in any attachment to
>it, is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received this
>communication in error please contact the sender, delete all electronic
>copies and destroy any hard copies. Thank you.

From rstanley at LEGACYFOUND.ORG Tue Oct 21 00:16:37 2003
From: rstanley at LEGACYFOUND.ORG (Richard Stanley)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Nothing for Indoor air pollution: Fwd: $200 million available
for grants on Grand Challenges in Global Health
Message-ID: <TUE.21.OCT.2003.071637.0300.>

After 34 years in the development game, it comes as absolutely no surprise to
me. But hey, today is the UN declared Poverty Day here. All good Un employees
must wear a imported silk screened hat and t shirt as they ride to work in
those 3 ton Pajeros....
The best way to react is to not come to the party, as McCartney once implied.
Only now, thank the god of your choice, we have this thing called the internet
and we can communicate and develop a molecular net which can and does
accomplish far more than most of the bureaucrats. Lets encapsulate 'em with
good will, simply doing what we do best.
Aluta continua
(Lest I be branded a terrorist undermining national security in this
globalisation bent world, I leave this unsigned.)

Kevin Chisholm wrote:

> Dear Paul
>
> What a disappointment!! The Gates Foundation money, except for that required
> for GC9, will most likely go to the "large already wealthy multi-National
> drug companies" who are probably already working on these challenges
> already!!
>
> Aside from GC9, all the other Global Challenges will do little or nothing to
> reduce the dependency of the Third World on the First World.
>
> As my good friend Yogi Berra was wont to say "It is deja vu all over again."
> :-)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders@ILSTU.EDU>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 4:59 PM
> Subject: [STOVES] Nothing for Indoor air pollution: Fwd: $200 million
> available for grants on Grand Challenges in Global Health
>
> > Stovers, ETHOS, and HEDON,
> >
> > Sorry to say, not a dollar is made eligible for research on indoor air
> > pollution (IAP) from the Grand Challenges project. (and I did make sure
> > that IAP was nominated for consideration.)
> >
> > Do not waste your time reading the rest of this message unless you want to
> > find out what 14 topics relating to human health were considered worthy
> > enough to compete for up to $20 million grants.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > >Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:07:32 -0400
> > >From: grants@GrandChallengesGH.org
> > >Subject: $200 million available for grants on Grand Challenges in Global
> > >Health
> > >To: grants@GrandChallengesGH.org
> > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
> > >
> > >To all interested scientists:
> > >
> > >The Grand Challenges in Global Health initiative has selected 14
> scientific
> > >and technological challenges, the solution of which could lead to
> important
> > >advances against diseases of the developing world. These challenges are
> > >listed below.
> > >
> > >The Foundation for the National Institutes of Health now seeks innovative
> > >solutions to these 14 critical research problems. Any scientist intrigued
> by
> > >these challenges and interested in obtaining funding to solve them is
> > >encouraged to apply. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation has awarded $200
> > >million to the Foundation for NIH to administer this initiative with
> > >guidance from a distinguished international Scientific Board.
> > >
> > >Grants will be awarded for up to $20 million each, for a maximum
> five-year
> > >period. Applications are invited from every part of the world, from
> single
> > >or multiple institutions, both non-profit and for profit. Collaborative
> > >approaches are encouraged. To apply for a research grant, investigators
> must
> > >first submit a letter of intent (LOI). LOIs that propose the most
> promising
> > >and innovative research approach will be given an invitation to submit a
> > >formal grant proposal.
> > >
> > >For detailed descriptions of the grand challenges, how they were
> selected,
> > >and instructions on submitting letters of intent, please visit
> > >www.grandchallegesgh.org. All letters of intent MUST comply with the
> > >instructions on the Web site.
> > >
> > >LOIs are due January 9, 2004.
> > >
> > >Please distribute this e-mail to colleagues who may be interested in
> > >obtaining funding to work on these important scientific problems.
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >
> > >Elke Jordan, Ph.D.
> > >
> > >Manager
> > >
> > >Grand Challenges in Global Health
> > >
> > >Foundation for the National Institutes of Health
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Goals and Grand Challenges
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To improve childhood vaccines:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > GC 1 Create effective single-dose vaccines that can be
> > >used soon after birth;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > GC 2 Prepare vaccines that do not require
> refrigeration;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >GC 3 Develop needle-free delivery systems for vaccines.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To create new vaccines:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >GC 4 Devise reliable tests in model systems to evaluate live
> > >attenuated vaccines;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >GC 5 Solve how to design antigens for effective, protective
> immunity;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >GC 6 Learn which immunological responses provide protective
> immunity.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To control insects that transmit agents of disease:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >GC 7 Develop a genetic strategy to deplete or incapacitate a
> disease-
> > >transmitting insect population;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >GC 8 Develop a chemical strategy to deplete or incapacitate a
> disease-
> > >transmitting insect population.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To improve nutrition to promote health:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > GC 9 Create a full range of optimal, bioavailable
> > >nutrients in a single staple plant species.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To improve drug treatment of infectious diseases:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >GC 10 Discover drugs and delivery systems that minimize the
> likelihood
> > >of drug resistant micro-organisms.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To cure latent and chronic infections:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >GC 11 Create therapies that can cure latent infections;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > GC 12 Create immunological methods that can cure chronic
> > >infections.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To measure disease and health status accurately and economically in
> > >developing countries:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >GC 13 Develop technologies that permit quantitative assessment of
> > >population health status;
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >GC 14 Develop technologies that allow assessment of individuals for
> > >multiple
> > >
> > > conditions or pathogens at point-of-care.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D., Fulbright Prof. to Mozambique 8/99 - 7/00
> > Rotary University Teacher Grantee to Mozambique >10 mo of 2001-2003
> > Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
> > Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
> > E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders

From ventfory at IAFRICA.COM Wed Oct 22 03:29:06 2003
From: ventfory at IAFRICA.COM (Kobus)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Briquette gasifier stove corrections/directions
Message-ID: <WED.22.OCT.2003.092906.0200.VENTFORY@IAFRICA.COM>

Paul,

You said:

And Kobus, please consider how we could meet in November in South Africa
area. It would be best for me in Secunda.

<KV> I rarely take a trip that way (Secunda, 800km?) and if I do I would have to combine my trip to you with something else worthwhile up there. Will let you know if something comes up. My brother stays in Nelspruit if you wanted to drop something for me. I am going to make Richard's test briquette maker, but that is not enough reason for you come to Pietermaritzburg either - and ironically I don't have a briquette stove of my own - Prototype 2 on the way though.

Regards

Kobus

From psanders at ILSTU.EDU Wed Oct 22 05:01:00 2003
From: psanders at ILSTU.EDU (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:40 2004
Subject: Literature Search on Hayboxes
Message-ID: <WED.22.OCT.2003.040100.0500.PSANDERS@ILSTU.EDU>

Dear Friends of Stoves:

Below is the work (slightly edited) by one of my students. I hope you find
it interesting.

I leave in 15 minutes to head to Africa, so do not expect any replies from
me for awhile.

Paul

The results of a search of the scholarly literature on Hayboxes/Haybags
Compiled by Student Brandy Wilken for Professor Paul S. Anderson
psanders@ilstu.edu
Introduction
Through the search of finding information on hay boxes, most of the
resources I found were online only. I did find several resources such as
books, magazines/journals, and brochures, however, I was unable to locate
the books through interlibrary access and many of the
magazines/journals/brochures required a small fee to get obtain these
resources. Many of the resources that I found tied into one other. They
all basically stated the same thing about hay boxes with a little
difference here and there which I have pointed out in this paper.
Scientific Principles
I found several resources regarding the principles of hay boxes. The
resources found stated that the hay box is a simple process in which food
is brought to a boil, simmered for a few minutes depending on the particle
size and then put into the hay box to continue cooking. Because the cooker
prevents heat from escaping into the environment, no additional energy is
needed to complete the cooking process. The hay box normally cooks within
one to two times the normal stovetop cooking time. The food can be left in
the hay box until it is ready to serve and will stay hot for
hours. (Cleovoulou, 1997), (N.K.A., n.d-8), (N.K.A., 1997), (N.K.A.,
1998), (N.K.A., 1999 Spring/Summer), (N.K.A., 2000-a), (Roth, 2003), (Still
& Kness, 1996), (Still, 2001) This design was valuable in places such as
South Africa where firewood is scarce and the search for firewood can take
hours each day, thus, with the hay box woman can frequently put the dinner
on before they go to work and upon their return, it is ready to
eat. (N.K.A. n.d-4), (N.K.A., n.d-7), (Shrestha & Munankami, 1999)
History of the Hay box
I found a few articles on the history of the hay box. Many of the articles
state that the history of the hay box appears to be a concept that has been
used for centuries. (N.K.A., n.d 1) Two resources that I found (which
turned out to have the exact wording in each article) stated that at the
beginning of the 20th century there was a fashion for fuel-less cookery in
order to save money and precious fuel not only during times of crisis but
anytime. (N.K.A., n.d4), (N.K.A., n.d-9), (N.K.A., 1999
Spring/Summer) One of the sources that I found stated that at the
beginning of World War II in 1939, there were leaflets sent out in England
urging everyone to use hay boxes to save fuel because an oil embargo was
expected. (Pierce, n.d.)
Types of Hay boxes
The types of hay boxes found in my research varied from simple to more
complicated depending on the type of hay box created. The hay box itself
is any kind of insulated container that can with-stand cooking temperatures
and fits relatively snugly around the pot. There were many sources
referring to the traditional hay box which is a wood, cardboard, or a
Styrofoam box using an insulated material such as hay, leaves, aluminum
foil, cotton, rice hulls, cork, foam, polystyrene (a type of hard,
inexpensive plastic), fur, wool, wood shavings or newspapers (Becker, n.d),
(N.K.A., n.d-2), (N.K.A., n.d-3), (N.K.A., n.d-4), (N.K.A., n.d-5), (N.K.A,
n.d-7), (N.K.A., n.d-9), (N.K.A, n.d-12 pictures are included at end of
paper), (N.K.A, n.d-13), (N.K.A, 1997), (N.K.A, 1999
Spring/Summer), (N.K.A, 2000-a), (N.K.A, 2000-b), (Roth, 2003). Another
type of hay box researched was called the haysack. The haysack does
relatively the same thing as a hay box but is a material bag with layers of
insulating materials including metalised polypropylene (aluminum coated
plastic foil) between two layers of polyflex batting. The haysack is a
better insulator then the wooden hay box in that it doesn't suffer the
ravages of insects and does not decay when getting wet. (N.K.A, n.d-1),
(Cleovoulou, 1997) I have provided a detailed instruction on how to build
the haysack at the end of this paper. A variation is called a Hot Bag,
developed by Wendy Chandler in South Africa.
Uses of Hay boxes
The use of a hay box is not only an environmental bonus but also a
convenience in many villages where firewood is used. As stated previously,
woman would need to spend less time huddling over a fire or stove and would
be less exposed to smoke if they have the hay box. (Bridgwater, n.d.),
(N.K.A. n.d-4), (N.K.A., n.d-6), (N.K.A., n.d-7), (Shrestha & Munankami,
1999) The haysack is a benefit to the poor for its fuel-saving, and to
society at large for the convenience it offers. It is also a way of
helping to preserve non-renewable energy sources. (N.K.A., n.d-1),
(N.K.A., n.d-10), (N.K.A., 2000-a), (N.K.A., 1999 Spring/Summer) Another
use of the haysack is to use as a warmer for food that has already
cooked. Casseroles from the oven can be placed into the sack to complete
the cooking process. (N.K.A., n.d-1) While completing my research, I
found an article that stated that hay boxes could save fuels to the extent
of one third of the total consumption by avoiding the need for
reheating. (Shrestha & Munankami, 1999) Fuel-less cookery is also a
technique used by campers and others spending time outdoors. They can
prepare their meals to eat while on a journey or out for the day. (N.K.A.,
n.d-9)
Cost
Throughout my research the cost of hatboxes are varied depending on the
area that was researched. There were suggestions of a maximum of $1.00 due
to how families live in Tamil Nadu, India. According to the sources that I
found, these families have limited possessions such as only one change of
clothing and basic cooking utensils so charging more than $1.00 wouldn't be
realistic. (Cleovoulou, 1997) The price suggestion in South Africa is
really dependant upon the size of hotsack/hot bag that you purchase. The
smallest bag ranges from $10 - 15.00, largest $15 - $20.00, and the extra
large costing from $20 - $30.00. (N.K.A., n.d - 1) The cost in Kathmandu,
Nepal for a hay box is 38 NRs - unfortunately, I am unable to determine
that currency. (Shrestha & Munankami, 1999)
NOTE: The cited books have not been obtained, so additional
materials in this Literature

Search might still be forthcoming.

Bibliography of Hayboxes / Hot Bags
(N.K.A = No Known Author) & (n.d = not dated).
Compiled by Student Brandy Wilken for Professor Paul S. Anderson
psanders@ilstu.edu

Bambrick, Frank and Hurley, Brian (1977). The haybox the energy saving
cooker. Dublin,
Ireland: Low Energy Systems.

Becker, Sheryl (n.d.) 2 pages. City Slicker Hayboxes. Retrieved
September 5, 2003, from Yahoo
Search Website: http://www.guidezone.skl.com/haybox.htm

Bridgwater, Mike (n.d.) 2 pages. Heat retention cooking vs.solar
cooking. Retrieved September 5, 2003,
from The Solar Cooking Archive, The Solar Cookers International Website:
http://www.solarcooking.org/wonderbaskets.htm

Cleovoulou, Mario (1997, January/February). 13 pages. Introducing
fuel-saving cooking methods in
southern Tamil Nadu. Social Change and Development. Retrieved from
http://www.cleovoulou.com/fuelsave.htm

De Lissa, N R (1919). En Casserole and haybox; the best cooking with least
fuel and utility
recipes (additional). London: Simpkin, Marshall, Hamilton, Kent & Co. Ltd.

Goldstein, Olga (1977). Solar food warmer and insulated cooker. Ste. Anne
de Bellevue,
Quebec: Brace Research Institute.

Heath, Ambrose (1976). Haybox cookery. London: Barrie and Jenkins.

(N.K.A.) (n.d - 1). 7 pages. Be environmentally friendly and use a hot
bag for cooking with
retained heat-. [Brochure - obtained from Wendy Chandler]

(N.K.A), (n.d - 2). 6 pages. Cooking on Camp. Retrieved September 5,
2003, from the Camping
and Outdoor Activities
Website: http://indigo.ie/~rpmurphy/camping/Cooking.html

(N.K.A), (n.d - 3). 8 pages. Cooking Primitive. Retrieved September 5,
2003, from The Inquiry
Net! Website: http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/b-p/wb/cooking.htm

(N.K.A), (n.d - 4). 2 pages. Making the Pounds Meet the Ends. Retrieved
September 12, 2003,
from http://www.poundsmeetends.co.uk/articles/haybox.htm

(N.K.A), (n.d - 5). 2 pages. Retained Heat Cooking. Retrieved September
5, 2003, from The Solar
Cooking Archive, The Solar Cookers International
Website: http://solarcooking.org/ret-heat.htm

(N.K.A), (n.d - 6). 2 pages. Home Heating and Cooking. Retrieved
September 12, 2003, from Dancing
Rabbit Ecovillage Website: http://www.dancingrabbit.org/energy/heating.html

(N.K.A), (n.d 7). 2 pages. HRC's for the UK - Haybox Cookery. Retrieved
September 12, 2003, from
Sunseed Tanzania Trust
Website: http://www.sunseedtanzania.org/HRC/HRCS_UK.html

(N.K.A), (n.d 8). 1 page. The Haybox. Retrieved September 12, 2003,
from Working Group on
Development Techniques
Website: http://www.wot.utwente.nl/wot/us/field/sun/haybox.html

(N.K.A), (n.d 9). 2 pages. The Prepared Home. Making the most of scarce
fuel when cooking by using
a hay box. Retrieved September 5, 2003, from The Prepared Home
Website: http://www.preparedhome.co.uk/articles/haybox.htm

(N.K.A), (n.d 10). 4 pages. Action Plan: Global Warming. Retrieved
September 12, 2003, from
Ninelives Website: http://www.ninelives.tv/9skills/s_warming.htm

(N.K.A), (n.d 11). 2 pages. Conserving electricity at home. Retrieved
September 12, 2003, from
BirdLife South Africa
Website: http://www.birdlife.org.za/resources/sustainable/energy/84_85.htm

(N.K.A), (n.d 12). 4 pages. How to make a food warmer/fireless
cooker. Retrieved September 16, 2003,
from Hedon Household Energy Network
Website: http://ecoharmony.net/hedon/howto.php

(N.K.A), (n.d - 13). 2 pages. Aprovecho's Guide to Hay Boxes and Fireless
Cooking. [Brochure]

(N.K.A), (1977) 16 pages. Low Energy Systems. [Pamplet] Retrieved
September 12, 2003, from Village
Earth
Website:
http://www.villageearth.org/atnetwork/atsourcebook/chapters/energygeneral.htm#The%20Haybox

(N.K.A), (1997). 3 pages. Haybox Cookery. Retrieved September 5,
2003, from The Centre for
Alternative Technology Website:
http://www.cat.org.uk/catpubs/tipsheet.tmpl?sku=05

(N.K.A), (1998). 1 page. Hayboxes. Retrieved September 5, 2003, from
ULOG Website:
http://www.ulog.ch/english/u_hay.html

(N.K.A), (1999 Spring/Summer) 4 pages. Hayboxes. Talking
Leaves. Retrieved September 5,
2003 from Lost Valley Educational Center from the World Wide Web:
http://www.lostvalley.org/haybox1.html

(N.K.A), (2000-a). 18 pages. Biomass Technology Examples. Retrieved
September 12, 2003 from
Energy Saving Now
Website: http://www.energy.saving.nu/biomass/technology.shtml

(N.K.A), (2000-b). 1 page. The pots and the haybox. Retrieved September
11, 2003 from the
World Wide Web: http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~hvirtane/cooker/node25.html

(N.K.A), (Summer 2000) The Haybox Cooker. Communities Magazine
#115. Retrieved
September 12, 2003, from Communities Magazine Back Issues, 2000s
Website: http://store.ic.org/products/communities-issues-2000s.html

Pierce, Anne (n.d.) 2 pages. Simply Living: The story of Compassion and
the Wonderbox. Essex: Box
Publications.

Rohde, Eleanour Sinclair (1939). Haybox cookery. London: G. Routledge.

Roth, Chris (2003, Spring). 3 pages. The Haybox: Why every household
needs one. Talking Leaves.
Retrieved September 8, 2003 from the World Wide Web:
http://www.talkingleaves.org/s03haybox.htm

Shrestha, Sama & Munankami, Rajeev (1999, March 1). 3 pages. Haybox
Cooker. Retrieved September
12, 2003 from Centre for Rural Technology, Nepal from World Wide
Website: http://www.panasia.org.sg/nepalnet/crt/haybox.htm

Solar Cookers International (n.d.). Fire-Less Cookers/Cooking (The Hay
Basket). No
Publication Information.6

Still, Dean (2001, September 13). 10 pages. Designing vernacular cooking
stoves: A quick summary for
the Shell Foundation discussions. Retrieved from Aprovech Research Center
on September 5, 2003 on the World Wide
Web:
http://www.shellfoundation.org/dialogues/household_energy/downloads/cooking.pdf

Still, D., Kness, J., Billetsen, B., Cox, G., Espenan, M., Nael, J.B.,
Nicholas, D., Subramanian,
M., & Zettler, D.F. (1996, July 3). 4 pages. Fuel Efficient Wood Stoves
and Hayboxes: Efficiency of Combustion, Operator Expertise, and Heat
Transfer Effeciency. Aprovecho Research Center. Retrieved September 8,
2003, from http://www.efn.org/~apro/AT/stove96.html

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Wed Oct 22 18:26:24 2003
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: Peter Scott's Lesotho report
Message-ID: <THU.23.OCT.2003.002624.0200.CRISPIN@NEWDAWN.SZ>

Dear Stovers

I agree with Paul's approach: working out where the increase in efficiency,
or safety, or fuel saving occurs, rather than making 'mixed' claims. This
will help most people subscribing to the list as it will allow people
following the general conversation to apply improvements to specific
projects.

Little (tha i have seen) has been said in this group about Michael Hoenes'
(sp?) work in Lesotho on building safer, shrouded fires with a surrounding
lining made entirely of used soft drink cans. They are very effective in a
wind, provide a great increase in child safety, add at least some preheated
secondary air to the upper flames (which can be improved by punching holes
in the top and bottom of the can), increases heat transfer be reducing
radiation, and costs peanuts to pennies to build.

Basically he makes a necklace of out-facing cans on a wire, and nests them
on top of each other. They can be made any size to match the pots. For the
largest cast iron pots (about 24 to 30 gallons) they are hard to beat.
Building a large stove to hold a very large pot is costly because there is a
lot of material to be purchased.

At schools in Lesotho there are often large pots sunk into concrete 'works'
that make them a permanent fixture. Significantly, they do not seem to have
a problem cleaning them - a fact I often cite to show that permanent
stove+pots are workable alternatives to a pot _on_ a stove.

Funerals (which require large portable stoves and pots) are a major consumer
of fuel and need to be addressed. It takes a lot of 'pot' to cook a cow.

Regards
Crispin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders@ILSTU.EDU>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] [ethos] Fw: Peter Scott's Lesotho report

Peter, Dean and all,

Nice work in Lesotho on large stoves.

In your testing, could you please consider the following variable / factor:

The impact of the stove STRUCTURE (including the skirt) can be considered
to be different from the stove COMBUSTION CHAMBER (where the Rocket
"creates" the heat).

[snip]

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Wed Oct 22 18:40:20 2003
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: New Additiions to the Stoves Pages
Message-ID: <THU.23.OCT.2003.004020.0200.CRISPIN@NEWDAWN.SZ>

Dear Paul (even though you are in the RSA at the moment)

Can you send the mpeg file I sent you to Tom Miles in case he wants to show
a low tech electric chaff chopper? I haven't got the file at home.
Thanks!

Regards
Crispin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@TRMILES.COM>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 9:03 AM
Subject: [STOVES] New Additiions to the Stoves Pages

Stovers have been active this Fall. Among the many new images I've added the
following to the stoves pages:
[snip]

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Wed Oct 22 19:03:17 2003
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: Slow to change??
Message-ID: <THU.23.OCT.2003.010317.0200.CRISPIN@NEWDAWN.SZ>

Dear Tom

I think your approach hinges on a thermoelectric generator at an affordable
cost. I have been quoted $6.50 for a useful power. If you can solve that
part, (eliminating batteries) you will also have a stove that will charge
cell phones: hook the thermoelectric generator to the cellphone. That might
be a very attractive device. People are paying $30 for solar chargers now.

Thanks
Crispin

----- Original Message -----
From: "tombreed" <tombreed@COMCAST.NET>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 7:52 AM
Subject: [STOVES] Slow to change??

Dear Prasad and all:

Yes, people are often slow to change to something that is marginally better.

However, the cell phone has swept the world and swept out poor national
phone systems in less than a decade because it is outstandingly better.

[snip]

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Wed Oct 22 19:35:11 2003
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: Animation (sort of) on the paper brick page
Message-ID: <THU.23.OCT.2003.013511.0200.CRISPIN@NEWDAWN.SZ>

Dear Briquette Makers

If you want to see the super-simple method of making newspaper-bound sawdust
briquettes look on our website under the Paper Brick Maker for the cheesy
"slide show" which shows the basic steps of forming the product. It does
not show the preparation of the paper (soaking it for 4 days) and mixing it
into the sawdust (1:4 ratio).

View the webpage for the paperbrick maker to the link at the bottom:

"Slide show of Paper Brick Maker - 462Kb"

Regards
Crispin
www.newdawn-engineering.com

From fmartirena_add at YAHOO.ES Thu Oct 23 05:28:19 2003
From: fmartirena_add at YAHOO.ES (Fernando Martirena)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: Animation (sort of) on the paper brick page
Message-ID: <THU.23.OCT.2003.112819.0200.FMARTIRENAADD@YAHOO.ES>

Thanks Crispin for this excellent hint... It was worthwhile to have a
closer look at this website... lots of interesting things!!

saludos, fernando
----- Original Message -----
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispin@newdawn.sz>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 1:35 AM
Subject: [STOVES] Animation (sort of) on the paper brick page

> Dear Briquette Makers
>
> If you want to see the super-simple method of making newspaper-bound
sawdust
> briquettes look on our website under the Paper Brick Maker for the cheesy
> "slide show" which shows the basic steps of forming the product. It does
> not show the preparation of the paper (soaking it for 4 days) and mixing
it
> into the sawdust (1:4 ratio).
>
> View the webpage for the paperbrick maker to the link at the bottom:
>
> "Slide show of Paper Brick Maker - 462Kb"
>
> Regards
> Crispin
> www.newdawn-engineering.com
>

From robdeutsch at BIGPOND.COM.KH Tue Oct 28 19:03:27 2003
From: robdeutsch at BIGPOND.COM.KH (Robert Deutsch)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: To Char or not to Char
Message-ID: <WED.29.OCT.2003.070327.0700.ROBDEUTSCH@BIGPOND.COM.KH>

Dear Listers,

Can someone explain the pros and cons of converting biomass to char and then
briquetting verses the conversion of biomass to briquettes?

We are still looking at options for reclaiming coconut husks, sugar cane and
other waste materials from the municipal solid waste stream and creating
better income generating opportunities for waste pickers here in Phnom Penh.
We are already promoting composting and recycling, but coconut and cane
waste exceed our capacity. Interested to hear from anyone with experience
with this type of project.

Robert Deutsch
Advisor, Community Sanitation and Recycling Organization
Phnom Penh, Cambodia

www.online.com.kh/users/csaro

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Tue Oct 28 23:46:24 2003
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: To Char or not to Char
Message-ID: <TUE.28.OCT.2003.214624.0700.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Robert (cc stoves):

Today, you said:

> Subject: To Char or not to Char
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Can someone explain the pros and cons of converting biomass to char and
then
> briquetting verses the conversion of biomass to briquettes?
>
The pros are often listed as:

Cleaner burning; easier to modify output (by fanning); more efficient
transport (30 MJ per kG vs 18 MJ for wood). Overall is higher on the
perceived "Energy Ladder".

The cons are often listed as: often very wasteful when produced in
field (sometimes listed as bad as 80% wasted energy) - and the waste
pyrolysis gases are 20 x worse than CO2 in global warming sense. Some
countries have prohibited its sale - often for reasons of desertification,
deforestation, etc. The main pollutant during combustion is CO - which can
lead to both illness and death (but probably not a worse health problem than
combustion of wood - which is a big problem.)

(But all of above can be avoided if pyrolysis gases are used
productively - and the combustion of those gases can be done cleanly. The
charcoal production can be done (but usually not) cleanly in the field. Two
Stove list members doing this commercially and cleanly now are A.D. Karve in
India (using crop residues) and Elsen Karstad in Nairobi (using bagasse.
Both are producing briquettes - probably with about 40% energy conversion
efficiency (60% lost). I'm not aware of anyone using the pyrolysis gases
for co-product reasons while producing charcoal. We have had a lot of talk
on this list about charcoal producing stoves - let us know if you want to
hear more on that. Hope all doing something like this will jump in.

> We are still looking at options for reclaiming coconut husks, sugar cane
and
> other waste materials from the municipal solid waste stream and creating
> better income generating opportunities for waste pickers here in Phnom
Penh.
> We are already promoting composting and recycling, but coconut and cane
> waste exceed our capacity. Interested to hear from anyone with
experience
> with this type of project.
>
RWL: Yours sounds like a possibly economic opportunity - either
with or without waste heat utilization. If you can find people now burning
wood locally, they should be able to use both cocomut and cane waste with
charcoal by-product - but there will be a need for some development I'm
afraid. Let us know if you want to hear more about the basic rules for
pyrolysis. One way is top lighting, separate primary (with air control) and
secondary air, dry fuel, etc. (Elsen reverses the air flow in a down draft
approach.) Another way is with retorts and total air exclusion. Both are
batch processes - which is a major drawback usually - but might be OK with
low labor costs like yours.

Congratulations on what you are doing.

Ron

> Robert Deutsch
> Advisor, Community Sanitation and Recycling Organization
> Phnom Penh, Cambodia
>
> www.online.com.kh/users/csaro
>

From elk at WANANCHI.COM Wed Oct 29 01:07:07 2003
From: elk at WANANCHI.COM (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: To Char or not to Char
Message-ID: <WED.29.OCT.2003.090707.0300.ELK@WANANCHI.COM>

Hi Robert;

It really all boils down to the market demand. What does yours require?

If suitable stoves &/or industrial boilers are available to burn
uncarbonised biomass fuel & the economics make sense, then it can be a
viable option.

But..... energy dense biomass 'logs' need powerful and expensive production
equipment in most cases. The alternative is ensiled low density briquettes,
which have yet to be proven on an industrial scale I believe.

Carbonisation and briquetting can be effected via labour-intensive means on
a reasonably large scale, obviating the need for large & expensive
equipment, but you are losing around 40% of the energy to the atmosphere in
the process- and you optimally should flare the volatiles (smoke).

It's a difficult question to answer in the absence of both production and
marketing trials unless you have a local commercial model to follow.

rgds;
elk
--------------------------------
Elsen L. Karstad
elk@wananchi.com
www.chardust.com
Nairobi, Kenya

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Deutsch" <robdeutsch@BIGPOND.COM.KH>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 3:03 AM
Subject: [STOVES] To Char or not to Char

> Dear Listers,
>
> Can someone explain the pros and cons of converting biomass to char and
then
> briquetting verses the conversion of biomass to briquettes?
>
> We are still looking at options for reclaiming coconut husks, sugar cane
and
> other waste materials from the municipal solid waste stream and creating
> better income generating opportunities for waste pickers here in Phnom
Penh.
> We are already promoting composting and recycling, but coconut and cane
> waste exceed our capacity. Interested to hear from anyone with
experience
> with this type of project.
>
> Robert Deutsch
> Advisor, Community Sanitation and Recycling Organization
> Phnom Penh, Cambodia
>
> www.online.com.kh/users/csaro
>
>

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Wed Oct 29 02:57:09 2003
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: To Char or not to Char
Message-ID: <WED.29.OCT.2003.095709.0200.CRISPIN@NEWDAWN.SZ>

Dear Robert

Cecil E Cook Jr the famous social anthropologist and I looked at the waste
stream of a small town called Simunye to propose how to recycle most of it.
To our surprise we found that about 70% of it (by volume) was biomass.

I am simply encouraging you to continue looking for the answer to your
question about charcoaling it. It is placed in huge dumps and rots to
methane which is a terrible greenhouse gas, about 1000 times worse than CO2.

Ron already mentioned the people doing the most with this.

I like the retort approach AD is using as it has the best future for being
clean.

Regards
Crispin in Swaziland

From elk at WANANCHI.COM Thu Oct 30 00:35:43 2003
From: elk at WANANCHI.COM (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: Info on African charcoal
Message-ID: <THU.30.OCT.2003.083543.0300.ELK@WANANCHI.COM>

Stovers;

I'm doing a brief Africa-wide survey of charcoal with respect to prices, popularity (dependency), and environmental impact.

I'd love to hear from anyone with information or literary reference on a country or regional basis. The main idea is to identify areas with the potential for commercial substitution of unsustainably produced wood charcoal via conversion of agri-industrial wastes and/or salvage of charcoal waste fines.

Any info is welcome!

elk
--------------------------------
Elsen L. Karstad
elk@wananchi.com
www.chardust.com
Nairobi, Kenya

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Fri Oct 31 22:01:15 2003
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:30:41 2004
Subject: Forwarding Heggie contribution (on charring)
Message-ID: <FRI.31.OCT.2003.200115.0700.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Stovers:
Andrew has exchanged some correspondence with Tom Miles and I, saying
1. That some of his mail has not been getting out to the full "Stoves"
list. (and Tom has confirmed some troubles for others). Could anyone else
who might have sent something in and not seen it go through send that
message to myself and Tom and we will perhaps be able to figure out what is
going on.

2. He forward this particular message which said:

> In addition to the current work of Elk and AD Karve, in 1979 the NRI
> (Natural Resources Institute I think) built a kiln system that made
> charcoal form the coconut husks and used the waste heat (cleanly
> flared) in a heat exchanger which desiccated the coconut. This was
> prototyped in Sri Lanka where 1.5tonnes of coconut shells displaced
> 800kg of wood previously used in the dryer., not only was charcoal
> made but also there was some tar recovery (for use as a preservative).
>
> Ref Breag and Harker 1979 Tropical Products Institute London.
>
> AJH

3. To this Tom has added today:
> Andrew,
>
> Is this the reference?
> Breag, G.R., and Harker, A.P.: The utilisation of waste heat produced
during the
> manufacture of coconut shell charcoal for the centralised production of
copra.
> Tropical Products Institute G. 127, 20 p. (1979).
>
> I remember this work at TPI but I don't have a copy of it.

4. So this paper perhaps gives more on the details of what we are
looking for - char-making with waste heat utilization. Anyone have any
leads on the paper and/or its main conclusions?

5. I have visited Andrew in the UK and can say that he has some of the
best insights on this sort of charcoaling and drying topic. He has doen a
lot of original technical work. I hope he will take this chance to see if a
new message will get through and by adding anything more on what he
understands to be the key technical and economic issues.

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Miles <tmiles@trmiles.com>
To: <ronallarson@qwest.net>; <andrew.heggie@dtn.ntl.com>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: To Char or not to Char

>
> I don't see the original message in the archives and I'm not sure why it
missed but
> others have had similar problems recently.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ronallarson@qwest.net>
> To: <andrew.heggie@dtn.ntl.com>
> Cc: <tmiles@TRMILES.COM>
> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 8:17 AM
> Subject: Re: To Char or not to Char
>
>
> Tom
>
> `I don't remember seeing this earlier -but I am at my daughter's computer
> and can't check my records for a few hours. I will forward to "stoves" if
> not already out -but wonderif you have any thoughts?
>
> Andrew: Thanks for this pretty old addition. It's a shame that we don't
> hear more about this. I will try to track down more on this - maybe
> especially through folks in Sri Lanka, Drying should be a cinch.
>
> Hoipe all is going well with you?
>
> Ron
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Andrew Heggie andrew.heggie@dtn.ntl.com
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:21:36 +0000
> To: ronallarson@QWEST.NET
> Subject: Re: To Char or not to Char
>
>
> Ronal, I sent this reply in but it seems not to have been propagated.
>
> AJH
> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:46:24 -0700, Ron Larson wrote:
>
> >
> >> We are still looking at options for reclaiming coconut husks, sugar
cane
> >and
> >> other waste materials from the municipal solid waste stream and
creating
> >> better income generating opportunities for waste pickers here in Phnom
> >Penh.
> >> We are already promoting composting and recycling, but coconut and cane
> >> waste exceed our capacity. Interested to hear from anyone with
> >experience
> >> with this type of project.
> >>
> > RWL: Yours sounds like a possibly economic opportunity - either
> >with or without waste heat utilization. If you can find people now
> burning
> >wood locally, they should be able to use both cocomut and cane waste with
> >charcoal by-product - but there will be a need for some development I'm
> >afraid.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>
>
>
>
>
>

BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

October 2003 Biomass Cooking Stoves Archive